image courtesy redbubble.com
Over at Legal Insurrection, Bill Jacobson believes that George Zimmerman must be found innocent and I wholeheartedly agree.
Logically, it should be a slam dunk of “Not Guilty” on all charges, since the evidence clearly shows Zimmerman was acting in justifiable self-defense as he was being beaten by Trayvon Martin. Or at least there is a reasonable doubt as to self-defense, which the law requires result in a Not Guilty verdict.
I’ve said it before, this was a case which never should have been brought, and it wasn’t. Not until a carefully orchestrated professionally managed publicity campaign based on false racial accusations, resulting in a Special Prosecutor.
The prosecutors in the case have tried desperately to make this about race yet the only racial overtones have come from Rachel Jeantel and Trayvon Martin.
According the Jeantel, Martin referred to Zimmerman as a “creepy ass cracker” and a ni**a.”
The Obama Department of Injustice inserted itself into the Zimmerman case:
A largely unknown group of Justice Department officials has inserted itself into the local Florida protest movement surrounding the killing of Trayvon Martin, assisting the protestors and attending their meetings and rallies.
While the officials are tasked with preventing racial violence, it appears that in carrying out their duties, they have provided significant assistance to those protesting the killing of Martin, who black, by George Zimmerman, who is half white and half Hispanic.
The officials are members of the DOJ’s Community Relations Service, also known as “The Peacemakers,” a special unit established under the 1964 Civil Rights Act and empowered to act to mitigate local tensions between ethnic groups.
But they apparently do more than that
The Peacemakers are viewed by the protestors as a quietly protective, on-the-ground force, the Sentinel story makes clear.
“They were there for us,” said the Rev. Valarie Houston, pastor of Allen Chapel AME Church, a focal point for the community after the unarmed teen’s death. She met the peacekeepers there for the first time during a March 20 town-hall meeting. “We felt protected,” she said.
One might be less cynical about the role of the CRS but for the narcissist Obama injecting himself into the debate.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KQc_L0MCds[/youtube]
And now Judicial Watch has uncovered the activities of the CRS
March 25 – 27, 2012, CRS spent $674.14 upon being “deployed to Sanford, FL to work marches, demonstrations, and rallies related to the shooting and death of an African-American teen by a neighborhood watch captain.”
March 25 – 28, 2012, CRS spent $1,142.84 “in Sanford, FL to work marches, demonstrations, and rallies related to the shooting and death of an African-American teen by a neighborhood watch captain.”
March 30 – April 1, 2012, CRS spent $892.55 in Sanford, FL “to provide support for protest deployment in Florida.”
March 30 – April 1, 2012, CRS spent an additional $751.60 in Sanford, FL “to provide technical assistance to the City of Sanford, event organizers, and law enforcement agencies for the march and rally on March 31.”
April 3 – 12, 2012, CRS spent $1,307.40 in Sanford, FL “to provide technical assistance, conciliation, and onsite mediation during demonstrations planned in Sanford.”
April 11-12, 2012, CRS spent $552.35 in Sanford, FL “to provide technical assistance for the preparation of possible marches and rallies related to the fatal shooting of a 17 year old African American male.” – expenses for employees to travel, eat, sleep?
Former Police Chief Bill Lee was fired for not bringing charges against George Zimmerman. Obama’s CRS apparently helped facilitate the protests that led to Lee’s removal:
On April 15, 2012, during the height of the protests, the Orlando Sentinel reported, “They [the CRS] helped set up a meeting between the local NAACP and elected officials that led to the temporary resignation of police Chief Bill Lee according to Turner Clayton, Seminole County chapter president of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.” The paper quoted the Rev. Valarie Houston, pastor of Allen Chapel AME Church, a focal point for protestors, as saying “They were there for us,” after a March 20 meeting with CRS agents.
Separately, in response to a Florida Sunshine Law request to the City of Sanford, Judicial Watch also obtained an audio recording of a “community meeting” held at Second Shiloh Missionary Baptist Church in Sanford on April 19, 2012. The meeting, which led to the ouster of Sanford’s Police Chief Bill Lee, was scheduled after a group of college students calling themselves the “Dream Defenders” barricaded the entrance to the police department demanding Lee be fired. According to the Orlando Sentinel, DOJ employees with the CRS had arranged a 40-mile police escort for the students from Daytona Beach to Sanford.
“These documents detail the extraordinary intervention by the Justice Department in the pressure campaign leading to the prosecution of George Zimmerman,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “My guess is that most Americans would rightly object to taxpayers paying government employees to help organize racially-charged demonstrations.”
Many have attempted to make this case all about race and to this day the media continues its racial bias (emphasis added):
“Martin was black and Zimmerman identifies himself as Hispanic.”
It’s atrocious.
The potential fallout from the case is very dismaying. Riots are expected following an innocent verdict:
On Monday, the Broward County Sheriff’s Office released a video calling on the public not to riot in the wake of the George Zimmerman verdict, expected this week or next in Florida. The Sheriff’s Office released a statement explaining that it was “working closely with the Sanford Police Department and other local law enforcement agencies” to coordinate “a response plan in anticipation of the verdict.”
Twitter is abundant with promises of riots:
Kyle 80Proof Golden @ayo80proof
Random… If George Zimmerman is acquitted.. I’m Gonna Start A Riot…
Sandpaper #Grit220 @oljames88
I hope America knows if Zimmerman is found not guilty … some city is going to RIOT!
and worse
Obama, Holder not interested.
Former Chief Lee says that the investigation was hijacked from his department because someone wanted Zimmerman charged:
(CNN) — The George Zimmerman investigation was hijacked “in a number of ways” by outside forces, said the former police chief of Sanford, Florida.
Bill Lee, who testified Monday in Zimmerman’s second-degree murder trial, told CNN’s George Howell in an exclusive interview that he felt pressure from city officials to arrest Zimmerman to placate the public rather than as a matter of justice.
“It was (relayed) to me that they just wanted an arrest. They didn’t care if it got dismissed later,” he said. “You don’t do that.”
When Sanford police arrived on the scene on February 26, 2012, after Zimmerman fatally shot unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, they conducted a “sound” investigation, and the evidence provided no probable cause to arrest Zimmerman at the scene, he said.
and Lee said this:
It was a matter of protocol, Lee said. Arresting Zimmerman based on the evidence at hand would have been a violation of Zimmerman’s Fourth Amendment rights, he said. Thus, the Sanford police presented a “capias request” to the state’s attorney, asking that the prosecutor determine whether it was a “justifiable homicide,” issue a warrant for arrest or present the case to a grand jury.
“The police department needed to do a job, and there was some influence — outside influence and inside influence — that forced a change in the course of the normal criminal justice process,” Lee said. “With all the influence and the protests and petitions for an arrest, you still have to uphold your oath.”
And there’s a thought I cannot get out of my head- if George Zimmerman is found innocent, will Obama and Holder, with his minions at the Department of Injustice who terminated a slam dunk case voter intimidation case for political reasons, try Zimmerman on a trumped-up civil rights charge in an effort to nail Zimmerman for something? It seems obvious that Obama and Holder want a pound of flesh.
Eric Holder was all over this case early:
But late Monday, the Department of Justice said it had opened an inquiry into the shooting. It will run parallel with one announced on Tuesday by the state attorney in Seminole County, who said a grand jury would be convened. State attorneys use grand juries in cases when they cannot make a clear independent call, or when a case is explosive.
And Holder has referred to it in speeches:
“This (violence) is an issue that has — rightly — garnered significant national attention in recent months, as our nation has struggled to make sense of the tragic shooting death of a Florida teenager named Trayvon Martin,” the Attorney General told a crowd of NAACP members. “As this case moves through the legal system, Justice Department officials will continue to communicate closely with state and local authorities to ensure that community concerns are heard, tensions are alleviated, and — as with every investigation at every level — appropriate actions are guided by the facts and the law.”
Obama was quick to politicize the Martin shooting and Holder was equally quick to insert the Department of Injustice into the event, but there are other deaths in which neither Obama nor Holder has any interest. You haven’t even heard of Jacob Chellew:
MABLETON, Ga. – Cobb County police hope to catch the hit-and-run driver who fatally struck 36-year-old Joshua Heath Chellew of Mableton as he walked along Mableton Parkway early Sunday.
It happened just after 1 a.m. Sunday, near Factory Shoals Road and Mableton Parkway. Cobb County police dispatched officers to the 6200 block of Mableton Parkway in response to a call concerning a person hit by a car.
It turns out that Chellew was murdered, not by the driver of the car, but by four “youths.”
MABLETON, Ga. – Cobb County police have arrested four alleged gang members linked to a fatal hit-and-run crash on Mableton Parkway.
The suspects are accused of beating the victim and then forcing him into the path of a car.
The fatal crash happened just after 1 a.m. Sunday, near Factory Shoals Road and Mableton Parkway. Joshua Heath Chellew, 36, of Mableton was struck by a vehicle and later died.
Authorities said Chellew did not know his attackers. A friend of Chellew said that the two had gone to a gas station when several men jumped Chellew.
“They started punching him. They starting beating on him,” said the woman, who asked not to be identified.
Arrest warrants said that the Chellew attempted to escape his attackers by backing into Mableton Parkway. Chellew was then knocked down onto the roadway, where he was struck by the vehicle.
It was a heinous murder. Why is it notable?
Jacob Chellew
His alleged killers?
In Chellew’s death there is no interest from the FBI or the Department of Injustice, or the media.
Of course, while the mainstream press seems to be consumed with the possibility of racism as a motivating factor in the killing of Trayvon Martin, there has been no coverage of this crime by the national media.
In fact, one local paper, The Marietta Daily Journal only reported Chellew’s death as a “hit-and-run,” failing to even mention the mob attack that caused the fatal accident.
Here’s another
Mobile, AL – On Saturday night, Matthew Owens told a group of kids to stop playing in the middle of street, only to have them return with a group of adults who dished out a beating that landed him in the Intensive Care Unit, according to police.
Police say that the group of 20 assailants used chairs, pipes and paint cans to waylay Owens on his own front porch.
The victim’s sister, Ashley Parker, told News 5: “It was the scariest thing I have ever witnessed.” She said the attackers used “brass buckles, paint cans and anything they could get their hands on.”
Parker added that as her brother lie on the ground bleeding, one of the assailants looked back and shouted: “Now that’s justice for Trayvon!”
It turns out that this is quite common:
-Also in April, police in the Chicago suburb of Maywood arrested 18-year-old Alton L. Hayes III, after he and a juvenile accomplice allegedly attacked and robbed a man. Hayes has admitted to the crime and told police he committed the brutal assault because he was angry over the Trayvon Martin case, Cook County State’s Attorney’s office spokeswoman Tandra Simonton told the Sun-Times.
Hayes and a 15-year-old Chicago boy grabbed the 19-year-old victim, pinning his arms to his sides. Hayes then threatened to hit the man with a tree branch and said, “empty your pockets, white boy,” said police.
After going through the man’s pockets they knocked him to the ground, punching the victim in the head “numerous times” before fleeing the scene, according to court documents.
Both Hayes and his co-defendant are black. Hayes was charged with attempted robbery, aggravated battery and a hate crime.
Someone was even thoughtful enough to video the incident
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlprKFftUe4[/youtube]
Judicial Watch noted something from a report by the Bureau of Justice Statistics:
“Here are more unsettling statistics buried in the DOJ’s new crime report; there has been a large increase in the rate of violent victimizations for whites. Hispanics and younger people. That means white non-Hispanics and Hispanics experienced an increase in violent victimization rates, while the rate for black non-Hispanics was stable.”
Why is there no interest by Obama, Holder or the media? It’s pretty obvious. If you don’t look like you could be Obama’s son or you’re not one of “Holder’s people” you’re screwed. This administration is interested in the civil rights of only some people.
Being found innocent may not the end of the nightmare for George Zimmerman. It may only be the beginning.
Update
As noted , there is something afoot in the Zimmerman trial. The judge apparently senses that the defense made its case and wants George Zimmerman to put his head in the noose.
Is someone pressuring her?
DrJohn has been a health care professional for more than 40 years. In addition to clinical practice he has done extensive research and has published widely with over 70 original articles and abstracts in the peer-reviewed literature. DrJohn is well known in his field and has lectured on every continent except for Antarctica. He has been married to the same wonderful lady for over 45 years and has three kids- two sons, both of whom are attorneys and one daughter who is in the field of education.
DrJohn was brought up with the concept that one can do well if one is prepared to work hard but nothing in life is guaranteed.
Except for liberals being foolish.
President Obama and his Attourney General will succeed where Charles Manson failed. Funny how a couple of mixed race individuals can be so easily drawn to the dark side of humanity; their self-perceptions must be highly conflicted. Many other mixed race people embrace the beauty and inclusiveness of who they are and are found to be beautiful by many of any and all races; too bad these two in authority only cling to the ugliness of racism and separatism. If helter skelter becomes manifest the two of them will be war criminals of the highest degree.
If all you heard was the prosecution’s closing argument you wouldn’t know if there had even been a fight between the two men.
You also would imagine George Zimmerman somehow able to stalk and gun down Trayvon Martin with malice in his heart (after all he muttered cuss words) without contrasting his story with the stories of the many ear and eye witnesses.
You would also care passionately about inconsistencies in Zimmerman’s many re-tellings of the events while LOVING the many cute lies of Rachel Chantel.
And also you would have to wonder where the line between legal and illegal really is…..
Being concerned about crime in area….legal.
Starting Neighborhood Watch….legal.
Being on lookout for suspicious activity…..legal.
Following someone…..legal.
Calling police…..legal.
Cussing….legal.
Wanting to become a police office…..legal.
Taking college courses in law enforcement….legal.
Going to the gym….legal.
it’s horrible, I listen to the PROCECUTOR, he kept adding more and more,
I am anxious to hear MR O’MARA TOMORROW, HE WILL HAVE TO DOUBLE ON EVERY TRUTH
TO MAKE SURE HE GET THE ATTENTION OF THE JURY.
AND TO KNOW THAT OBAMA IS SUPPORTING WITH MONEY AND HIS GROUP
WHICH ARE PAID BY THE PEOPLE , HOW IRONIC THE WHOLE THING IS.
Zimmerman refused to testify, as is his right, he should not be forced to risk incriminating himself.
Obama has said that Trayvon Martin could have been his son.
D.C. City Council Considers Decriminalizing Small-Time Marijuana Possession
No comments yet by Toker in Chief Obama, Bill “I didn’t inhale” Clinton or cocaine-sting caught Marian Barry on whether they are coming out in support the bill.
We still don’t have access to Obama’s medical records, so unlike Trayvon, we don’t know if this POTUS is still partaking of wacky-tobbaccy while shirking his duties and responsibilities, to give him more playtime and make politcally charged protest appearances.
Haven’t been here in a long time. Saw your trackback at Legal Insurrection and thought I’d drop in.
@M. Simon:
Welcome!
M. Simon
yes welcome sir, nice to have new friends to debate with, and
I like to win a debate but it’s hard with all the smart CONSERVATIVES HERE,
THEY JUST LET ME WIN TO GET RID OF ME,
JUST KIDDING,
BYE
CharlieGee
hi
yes and he had no business mixing himself on this case, it’s like enhancing the BLACKS TO RIOT,
HE DID IT AT THE BEGINNING AND THE RIOT WAS DONE AND THE SEQUEL ARE WHAT WE SAW FROM THE YOUNG BLACKS ATTACKING THE WHITES AND INFLICTING WOUNDS PAINFUL AND LONG TO HEAL ON LONE WHITE PEOPLE THEY CROWD AND BEAT UP.
IS HE NOT AWARE OF WHAT JOB HE IS MEAN THE YOUNG BLACKS TAKE HIS WORD AND TRANSLATE IT IN ATTACKING THE WHITES, OR IS HE DOING IT IN PURPOSE .
THAT IS NEVER SEEN BEFORE,
BYE
Why is a crime committed by one race against another considered a hate crime? Isn’t murder or harm done to another person hateful by the mere act itself? The Martin case simply adds to the racial divide that is propagated by the media. As you ask why this divide is necessary-it’s one of the driving forces which keeps democrats in power. While doing so, it keeps American divided and the minority in poverty. Don’t you just love politics?!
It’s amazing that Trayvon Martin was able to interject racial overtones into the trial, considering he’s dead.
Meanwhile, the defense call a witness, Olivia Bertalan, so that she could testify about the two black men that invaded her home. But I’m sure if another neighbor’s home had been invaded by two Eskimo women, they would have called them to testify too. Because the defense team doesn’t see race.
TOM you can bet that TRAYVON KNEW THERE WAS BREAK IN
AND THEY WHERE DONE BY THE ONE OF HIS OWN AGES WHICH HE KNEW,
he had been there before and it was one of his home,
and his blog was of drug and violence and hate words with the other,
he made himself trouble and trouble came to his call.
so it needed only one step to there where he ended,
he was not a child, he had left that behind for a long time,
he is not a model for the young blacks to want to hurt and kill the OTHER COLORS HUMANS,
THEY HAVE OTHER BLACKS TO CHOSE TO FOLLOW LIKE BENJAMIN CARSON
WHO FIT THE MODEL TO FOLLOW ONE HUNDRED PER CENT,
AND THERE IS MANY MORE,
Tired AMERICAN,
YES ABSOLUTELY TRUE, WHY WE DID NOT THINK OF THIS ERROR?
WE ALL FAIL TO THINK OF IT,
IS IN IT TO LESSER THE ATTACK ON THE OTHER WHICH MADE HIM
IN A DESPERATE LIFE THREATENING SITUATION SO TO USE HIS GUN TO SHOOT THE ONE
INFLICTING SO MUCH PAIN AS TO KILL HIM AND AS HE TOLD HIM
REALIZE HIS INTENT TO KILL
Tom,
Did you know that George Zimmerman was tutoring two black children? That he stood up for a black man, Sherman Ware, that he thought was unfairly treated by the Sanford police? That was in the local media. And at a public meeting.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/04/zimmerman-demanded-discipline-in-2010-race-related-beating-for-officers-who-investigated-martin-shooting/
Who brought in race? Barack “That could have been my son” Obama.
M. Simon
I wish the Jury read your comment, but it might be too late.
thank you for the link.
@M. Simon:
That’s great, but of course that has nothing to do with my comment. My comment addressed this prevalent notion in some quarters that the Left’s reaction to this tragedy is entirely focused on divisive accusations of racism, while the Right’s is all about noble self-defense. This theory is as flimsy as a wet paper towel.
To my mind, the most important thing we’ll likely never know about this case is why GZ fixated on TM in the first place. I don’t necessarily believe it was due to racism, or that he’s a rabid racist; and I don’t necessarily rule out that race played at least a part. It’s a statistical fact that young, black men die violent deaths at a much higher rate than everyone else in America, so parents, and all Americans really, have every right to ask ‘why?’ every time it happens. But far be it from me to introduce nuance into this discussion.
If you read Obama’s full comments, it’s clear he’s offering empathy from one parent to another. I certainly can understand those who question whether it’s appropriate for him to comment on the case at all, but of course that’s not what you’re saying.
Tom
how did TRAYVON told GEORGE YOU WILL DIE TONIGHT,
@Tired American: And keeping demo-commie-cRATS in power furthers the communist internationalist movement
Budvarakbar
yes the UNIONS INFLUENCING GOVERNMENT is not needed AT FEDERAL or STATES
OR TAX AGENCY, OR IN ANY GOVERNMENT AGENCY, OR ANY MILITARY INVOLVEMENT OR
THE ONE WHO IS PEEPING ON US AND OUR FRIENDLY COUNTRIES,
YES THEY ARE FROM INTERNATIONAL COMMUNIST,
more race baiting from the Left, er, I mean Geraldo Rivera on FOX News :
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2013/07/12/geraldo-jurors-would-have-shot-and-killed-trayvon-martin-a-lot-sooner-than-george-zimmerman-did/
In case anyone is unclear on when it’s justified to shoot someone in “self-defense”, all you need to remember is four words: Black men in hoodies.
Tom
is that you?
thank you for the link, I missed it,
@Tom:
If you’re just now noticing that Geraldo Rivera has a tendency towards race baiting when a Hispanic is involved, you’ve been asleep. He is also extremely defensive towards Hispanics. This is nothing new to most of us. You are however absolutely correct that Geraldo’s political stance is on the left. He is fact proud of it and numerous times has described himself as “a social liberal and a fiscal conservative.” Unlike MSNBC’s choir meeting programs, Fox usually has Democrats on their panels. Sometimes they even let Koolaid drinking Democrats guest host their programs.
@Ditto:
So Geraldo is a liberal, and Fox News politically expansive... sometimes. For example, when it comes to this one unfortunate paragraph, which would be so convenient to shuffle off to the other side. I suppose you could make that argument. I suppose others could laugh it off. People protect their cartoonish perceptions of the reality they want to see all the time. I recommend stepping outside yourself and taking a gander before doing so again. Remember, we live in the world, not your head. So… you were saying about Fox News?
@Tom:
I would suggest you put aside your ridiculous, far-left inspired preconceived notions about how you ‘think’ things are little troll, and examine how they really are. You have continually disparaged the flaws you see in others while ignoring your own. On every thread about the Zimmerman trial where you have commented, you have continually tried to make it all about racism, tossing out similar such commentary against Zimmerman as you did above did about Geraldo, insinuating that their actions are motivated by racism against Blacks. Perhaps it is transference, conveying your internal bigotry on others in order to justify your own indignation. Why do you hate Hispanics so much?
@Ditto:
I enjoy the fact that you can’t prove that lie. Try though. Sad to see you disgrace yourself.
That’s not an accurate statement, by any stretch of the imagination. Consider Cook County, Illinois—that is, Chicago—which people tend to think of as decidedly democratic, liberal-leaning Obama territory. A 2010 study found that blacks convicted of low-level drug crimes in Cook County are 5 times more likely to be sentenced to prison time than whites who are arrested for identical offenses. When those having similar prior arrest histories are taken as a group, blacks are still 3 times more likely to be sentenced to prison time for identical offenses. (Illinois disproportionate Justice Impact Study Commission; Final Report Submitted to the Illinois General Assembly; page 3.)
Nationally, black males are 2 times more likely than white males to be searched during routine traffic stops, and 2.5 times more likely to be arrested following routine traffic stops. (Racial and Gender Profiling Can Affect Outcome of Traffic Stops; Science Daily, June 21, 2012.)
I’d be very interested to see any actual statistics that demonstrate black people are being cut slack by the justice system when compared with whites, all things beside race being equal.
Tom,
Well the home invasion by black youth certainly raised Zims awareness. But would that justify shooting? No.
What justified the shooting was Trays attempt at sidewalk renovation with Zims head.
Are you really that obtuse? Or have you bought the narrative?
And BTW Tom I don’t disagree with you about the racism in our “justice” system. I discuss that here:
http://classicalvalues.com/2013/07/the-irony-in-the-travesty/
But if it becomes illegal to defend yourself against assaulting black youth – heaven help us.
Or are you a racist?
@Tom:
All we have to do is look above and see how you off handily claim GZ as targeting TM due to racism
While you “don’t necessarily believe” GZ is a “rabid racist” you are still calling him a racist. You then use a quote of Geraldo Rivera to indicate that he too is a racist.
C’mon Tom, why are you so bigoted against Hispanics that you think they are racists? Is it because most of them are Catholic? We’re well aware how much you hate people who have religious beliefs. What other religions and races do you hate? Evangelicals, Baptists Jews? Most of them are really quite friendly when you aren’t attacking them because of their faith.
It’s OK Tom, It’s good to get these things out so you can understand why you hate.
Have you seen your bedfellows, Greg, Tom?
http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2013/6/9/protestors_outside_s.html
Protestors outside Seminole County courthouse with Zimmerman trial set to begin
Sounds OK, at first.
But take a closer look at the photo of the 5 or 6 hoodie-wearing white men and their posters.
Revcom.us is the source.
Yes, it is the Revolutionary Communist Party of the USA.
If you get in the weeds of this group by reading their pages at that site you see they make all of the same mistakes as all other communists in the past.
As if only THEY, under Bob A., could ”get it right.”
Sure, communism’s great……but only if you are lead dog.
Think they would really have justice for all if they took over?
Study up on the USSR’s filling of an entire Socialist Republic (Siberia) with political prisoners.
Obama had a friend who also was this far Left.
He figured imprisoning millions of Americans in re-education camps was going to be needed.
Those who were not reformed should be killed.
He estimated that meant about 25 million people.
Ditto,
Uh. “a social liberal and a fiscal conservative” is a concise description of a libertarian. Keep up.
Mostly libertarians align with the Republicans. But if the Republicans continue the way they have been going libertarians will move to the left. BTW I will vote for communists over theocons – every day of the week and twice on Sunday. (lucky elections are mostly held on Tuesdays eh?)
And I will vote for any politician who promises an end to prohibition.
Note: libertarians (about 15% of the electorate) are mostly put in the “independent” category. They are the swing voters you HAVE to attract to win elections. Assuming you WANT to win elections. The Democrats do.
Nan,
Bob A. ? Hadn’t heard that name in decades. Is he out of jail?
@M. Simon:
I’m quite aware that many Libertarians describe themselves as such. Rivera is very far left on social issues, I’ve hardly at all heard him talk about fiscal issues, so it’s hard to say if he is a Libertarian or Democrat and to my knowledge he’s never said.
There are however varieties of libertarian thought, most desiring the smallest government necessary. There are some few who would support a Libertarian form of basest communism, while a few Libertarians would prefer no government at all. There are certain libertarians who think that the government should have no power to regulate business. Even the founders disagreed with that in their lawmaking. Most governments in history understood the anarchistic and predatory possibilities inherent with completely unregulated business.
There has never been a truly communist nation and it is doubtful that one could last for very long (Animal Farm gives wonderful examples of how communism can devolve into socialism). All those governments that have been called communist have actually been socialist. Socialist forms of government are diametrical opposite of the Libertarian form. Someone who would vote for the transformation into an all powerful socialist state can not be considered a Libertarian. IMO, I consider socialist governments as essentially little different from theocracies, with the main difference being that the socialists (usually forcibly,) replaces faith in a “all powerful divine force” with an all powerful totalitarian state.
A pure theocracy may or may not be totalitarian in nature depending on the religious belief system, and what powers are held by the high religious leaders, and what rights belong to the people. In a Socialist form of government, the people only tend to have what liberties/privileges the government allows them to have, and whatever the government grants, it can take away.
“Conservative” and “Liberal” have become politicized words whereby, what their meaning to one person can differ much from that of another.
“Constitutional conservatism” in America generally supports a limited government that recognizes the rights and freedom of the people, whereby the Constitution is read in a ” conservative” manner towards the powers granted the Federal government vs those retained by the individual states, with a “liberal” interpretation towards the rights and freedoms withheld by the people. (The danger here for the people is just how much power they allow their state governments to wield).
@Ditto: Good points comparing socialism and communism. Marx’s communism was a form a socialism or viseversa. Some historians even refer to it as Marx’s socialism when referencing it as an alternate form of political thinking that came out in response to the liberal democratic thought in the mid 1800’s. When you at look at Communism and Facism and the left wing dictators who initially imposed them (Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mussolini), there were more similarities than differences.
@M. Simon:
Of course this is your imaginative version of what happened, since the only living witness is GZ. Clinically, we can observe that his superficial wounds certainly don’t suggest he was on the receiving end of the thrashing of a lifetime, but we don’t know with certitude what happened. What we do know, what is absolutely beyond dispute, is that TM would be alive today if GZ hadn’t been lurking around the neighborhood armed, hadn’t fixated on TM, and didn’t follow him against the wishes of the police department AND the principles/best practices of ‘real’ neighborhood watch programs. As I’ve stated on other threads, it’s entirely possible that GZ is legally not guilty. But he is, without a doubt, ethically and morally responsible for TM’s death. So I find it odd, to say the least, that the Right has decided to champion this loser, while simultaneously dragging the reputation of the deceased through the mud. Why, any normal person will ask? There are many ugly potential interpretations for this phenomenon, and in this case, perhaps the most obvious is also the most true.
Of course no one has ever said such an absurd thing. Your reliance on multiple contrived straw men to argue your point of view is telling. If I have to explain to you why people are upset, perhaps you’re the one being obtuse. Hint: when a grown, armed man stalks and ultimately shoots a teenager to death, people are going to want to know why. As much as you’d like to reaffirm your version of the ancient verities, “he had it coming” just doesn’t fly in 2013.
How boring. I hate when people run out of interesting things to say and drive a debate into the trash cans at the end of a cul de sac. I suppose I’m supposed to think, heaven’s help me!, there’s nothing worse than being labeled a ‘racist’ by a far-Right ideologue! How will my reputation ever recover?
@Nan G:
Again, i’m left completely bewildered about the point of another one of your posts.
@Ditto:
Groan. Is this your way of conceding that you have nothing pertinent to write in reply to what I actually wrote to you?
TOM
THE OTHER YOUNG BLACKS WITH HOODIES,
IN CHICAGO KILL OTHER BLACKS TOO,
IS IT THAT THEY NEED TO KILL FOR LIVING,?
IF YOUR LIFE IS THREATEN LIKE GEORGE ZIMMERMAN WAS, YOU LIVE OR DIE,
THAT IS THE ULTIMATE CHOICE, HE IS LUCKY TO BE ALIVE,
BECAUSE THE OTHER HAD THE WILL TO KILL,
IT’S EASY TO SEE, IT’S SO OBVIOUS,
TRAYVON AFTER BEING THROWN OUT OF THE SCHOOL WAS A MAD YOUNG PERSON, HE WAS READY TO KILL ANYONE, IT COULD HAVE BEEN ANY ONE IN THOSE HOUSES.
HIS PARENTS NEEDED TO SUPERVISE HIM, AND TALK HIM OUT OF HIS ANGER.
@Tom:
Perhaps you can give us the “clinical” definition of “the thrashing of a lifetime?” And while you’re at it, you can provide us with the opinion of any reputable medical expert, including trauma experts, that show George Zimmerman will never suffer any consequences of his injuries later in life, therefore making his injures “life threatening” in the future.
Woulda, coulda, shoulda. That’s what you’re basing your opinion on? We can also say, with relative certainty, that had Trayvon Martin gone directly to his father’s girl friend’s townhome, and gone inside, he would be alive today, or that had Trayvon Martin not been wandering around in unfamiliar territory that night, he would be alive today. Moot.
Please, explain how George Zimmerman’s actions that night meet with the Florida statute that defines “stalking.” You see, Tom, the “stalking” statutes are clear and define certain behavior. So defend your claim that GZ was “stalking” TM by using the actual Florida law.
@Nan G: #30
As was mentioned in #26, I’d be very interested to see any actual statistics that demonstrate black people are being cut slack by the justice system when compared with whites, all things beside race being equal.
There aren’t any. What statistics consistently demonstrate is the exact opposite.
People in this country who look like they could be Obama’s son, or who are are Holder’s people, aren’t getting any special breaks under the American justice system. What they appear to be getting is persecution. All other things being equal, if you happen to be a black male you’re far more likely to be viewed with suspicion, stopped, searched, and arrested. If you’re arrested, you’re more likely to be convicted, and if convicted, you’re more likely to do time in prison. All other things being equal. That’s what all the numbers show.
This probably explains why many people were outraged when Zimmerman wasn’t even arrested. At least it explains the outrage on one side. I’m not entirely clear why people on the other side are so outraged by the simple fact that there has been a trial. An armed civilian shot and killed an unarmed teenager who was apparently doing nothing other than walking back to a friends house. The circumstances are anything but clear and unambiguous—unless you automatically take the shooter’s own contradictory account as gospel truth. People should expect a trial in such a situation. A trial is how guilt or innocence of a serious charge is established under rule of law.
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN HAD A JOB TO DO it was watching unusual actions
which could be leading to break in. that’s what he was told and he did it well, he walk to locate the suspect young walking around, and there was a sign telling him of a GUARD THERE AND THE SIGN WAS BIG ENOUGH TO NOT MISS, THE PEOPLE WILL MISS HIM, WHEN THE YOUNG BLACKS WILL COME BACK
AS MANY MORE TO ROB THEM AND BEAT THEM.
NOBODY IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WILL WANT THE JOB OF ZIMMERMAN,THEY DON’T DESERVE IT. BECAUSE THEY LET HIM DOWN WHEN HE PLEADED FOR HELP.
@retire05:
Indeed, I can: http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-trial-judge-tells-jury-ignore-detectives-description-163625943.html
Testifying for the prosecution at Zimmerman’s trial, Medical Examiner Valerie Rao said she reviewed Zimmerman’s medical records and 36 pictures of his injuries taken at the police station after the fight.
“They were not life-threatening. They were very insignificant,” Rao told the Seminole County criminal court jury.
….
In court on Tuesday, medical examiner Rao said Zimmerman’s injuries did not involve great force and were consistent with one blow to the face and one impact with the concrete.
What a bizarre expectation. It’s not against the law to walk outside, is it? But somehow you feel it’s proper to equate the decision of TM to do something completely within his rights as an American citizen to the decisions of GZ to suspect, follow and shoot him. Your (il)logic can be (mis)applied to any situation. So if someone stops you on the street today and murders you, apparently you feel it’s equally your fault for not being home at the time? Nice.
I don’t have to defend my claim via the Florida law, because i never cited the Florida statute in the first place. In case you’re unfamiliar, the words “stalk” has a non-Florida statute definition. Merriam defines it as “to pursue quarry or prey stealthily”. Your welcome for the vocabulary tutorial.
@ilovebeeswarzone:
I think George Zimmerman would agree with that definition of his “job”. It’s funny how GZ apologists find this to be a normal use of one’s time. Many of the same people who are outraged that the government has access to our phone records find it perfectly laudable that one of their neighbors can appoint himself neighborhood watchman and keep track of everything everyone is up to.
@ilovebeeswarzone, #42:
Whether Zimmerman is found innocent or guilty of his charges, what he actually became as a self-appointed neighborhood watch member was a threat to the peace and safety of the neighborhood he imagined he was protecting. Witness the fact that an unarmed teenager who was simply going about his business in that neighborhood is now dead.
Tom
that woman is not fit to tell that, the other man said his wounds where life threatening
he could have died, and he surely was in great pain and scare to pass out with the other would kill him,
and he would have finish him if he had put his hand on the gun,
there is no doubt by seeing the head injuries, inflicted on and on and on and on
is that to kill? yes
Well, I see one thing NEVER CHANGES here.. the LIB FOOLS, never get any smarter…. sad. Must be BAD GENES.. since even MY DOG is smart enough, to learn from his mistakes.
@Hankster58:
I wager YOUR DOG is smart enough to not compulsively MISUSE CAPS like a teenage dipSHIT too.
Tom, do the letters FO mean anything to you? IF OS.. DO SO.
GREG
UN ARM? REALLY? REALY?
a slab of concrete edge to bash the head? really un armed?
before the skull open to bleed it ‘s not superficial wounds as said by ignorant suppose expert.