It’s ironic how events pry open the door to the truth.
A few days ago Barack Obama said it was a “local matter.”
” Our thoughts and prayers go out to Trayvon Martin’s family, but obviously we’re not going to wade into a local law enforcement matter,” Carney said. “I would refer you to the Justice Department and to local law enforcement at this point.”
Sensing the media tsunami building, Barack Obama decided to hang ten:
“If I had a son he would have looked like Treyvon,” Obama said shortly, addressing the victim’s parents. “I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness that this deserves and that we’re going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.”
Earlier this month a 13 year old white boy was attacked and set on fire by several black youths.
KANSAS CITY, Mo. — A 13-year-old Kansas City boy is back home after two teenagers poured gasoline on him and lit him on fire.
It happened Tuesday at the teen’s home on Quincy Avenue, just down the street from Kansas City’s East High School. The boy lives less than two blocks away from the school and was walking home when the attack happened.
Melissa Coon said her son turned from the school’s stadium onto Quincy Avenue and noticed two teenagers following him. She said the teens followed her son home and attacked him outside his front door.
“And they rushed him on the porch as he tried to get the door open,” she said. “(One of them) poured the gasoline, then flicked the Bic, and said, ‘This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, white boy’.”
Barack Obama had nothing to say about that attack.
What happened to Trayvon Martin is a terrible thing and exactly what happened needs to be investigated and justice must follow. But one has to presume that the white boy in Kansas City did not look enough like Barack Obama for the President to weigh in on that atrocity. Or do certain kinds of crimes matter more to Obama than do others? A pattern is emerging. When Henry Gates was arrested Obama declared that the white cop “acted stupidly” without the benefit of any facts. Obama’s Attorney General refers to “my people” instead of “us.” A certain Black Panther voter intimidation conviction is mysteriously dropped. Obama said this incident needs “soul searching” but the Kansas City attack apparently does not.
Someone can explain it to me. I find this disgraceful.
DrJohn has been a health care professional for more than 30 years. In addition to clinical practice he has done extensive research and has published widely with over 70 original articles and abstracts in the peer-reviewed literature. DrJohn is well known in his field and has lectured on every continent except for Antarctica. He has been married to the same wonderful lady for over 30 years and has three kids- two sons, both of whom are attorneys and one daughter on her way into the field of education.
DrJohn was brought up with the concept that one can do well if one is prepared to work hard but nothing in life is guaranteed.
Except for liberals being foolish.
And what Zimmerman said under his breath is
“F**king punks”
Listen carefully. There is a hard consonant at the end of the exclamation.
Hard Right
yes, and he did fight, but then that change everything, did he try to know why he want to fight before
even just to prevent it,
so then he became the stronger one and continue even as he saw blood and bruises,
that change everything again doesn’t it
that was the Q for ZIMMERMAN TO FEAR FOR HIS LIFE, HE CALL FOR HELP,
THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE Q FOR MARTIN TO GET OUT AS THE WINNER, HE HAD THE CHANCE AT THAT TIME TO KNOW WHEN TO FOLD, TOO BAD HE STAYED AND CONTINUE FOR THE KILL,
IT TURN OUT DIFFERENTLY, so sadly for him
Even IF he wasn’t told no to follow, he did so and he still got out of his car when he did not need to.
The SYG law does not protect instigators. Period. It sounds like even the police need to brush up on the law.
@Hard Right:
I don’t mean to anger you, but getting out of a car is not a crime.
@drjohn, turn up your volume, and listen carefully to @ the unedited complete call I linked above . The background sounds are different – quieter from the start of the call until 2’09” when Zimmerman says “he’s running”. Then you hear sounds that could be the car door opening, and then the body movement starts for the walking.
Also, if you have your volume up high, you will hear that it is not Zimmerman saying “okay”, as incorrectly labeled on that short version video you linked. It’s the dispatcher who said ” uh okay, we don’t need you to do that (short pause) kay?” The sound quality of the dispatcher and Zimmerman’s voice are distinctly different. Nor is there any break, hesitation or change in the body movement, as you would hear if someone stopped or reversed directions.
@MataHarley:
I totally disagree. The word is ok, not oK? or “K?”
It’s a small “ok” and sounds like Zimmerman.
You are missing the bigger picture. When it comes to a lethal force encounter, they look at the events leading up to the incident. They look to see if it could have been avoided and whether or not the shooter could have avoided the incident or if they contributed to it.
Following the boy then getting out and confronting him while not illegal, were not wise actions and definitely contributed to what happened. He stays in the car, no shooting.
Here is another way to look at it. I see a man in my driveway breaking into my car. I run out the door gun in hand and and through his actions, I’m forced to shoot him. There is a better than 50/50 chance I’m going to jail. Why? Because there was no reason to leave the safety of my home to stop him. Had I not gone out there, the shooting would not have happened. Human life trumps merely protecting property.
Now instead, say I’m in my window telling him the police are on the way and he draws a gun, forcing me to shoot him. Very high chance it will be considered justified.
I gues to paraphrase, you have to be almost 100% in the right to avoid charges. If you are not, don’t be surprised when you wind up in court.
If what I’m seeing can be trusted, then he’s not in the right.
And it does suggest Zimmerman is out of the car by the time he’s asked not to follow.
Dang, drj… we know Zimmerman was out of his SUV. The fight and shooting took place in the walkways between houses, not the road.
The movement stops on the 911 call about 31 seconds after it started. If that’s a one way trip, he was about 30 seconds away from the road and SUV, if that’s where he was before he started moving. Had he turned around when the dispatch warned about following, he’d have only been 10-15 seconds away from his SUV.
There’s no “cut thru” the gated neighborhood if the gated neighborhood, where Brandy Green lives, is the destination. As far as the empty MJ bad… OMG! A hardened criminal… shoot the SOB. /sarc
Perhaps one might want to consider that Zimmerman’s past assault of a police officer might not render him of above reproach character either?
BTW
@Hard Right: And if Trayvon doesn’t cut through the gated neighborhood, nothing happens.
I don’t care that he got busted for weed. It doesn’t have any relevance to the situation at hand.
@drjohn:
Zimmerman isn’t a cop. He had no business to follow AND confront. As Zimmerman had a gun, he also had the duty to try and avoid a situation that could result in a shooting. Sorry, but the standard is higher for civilians that carry firearms let alone use them in a lethal force encounter.
I understand what you are saying Dr.John, but the fact is, under the law Zimmerman is not protected due to his actions.
If I tried to pull over a drunk driver and it resulted in me shooting him to death, I’m going to be charged. This really isn’t any different.
Hard Right
did you take into account that MR ZIMMERMAN WAS GIVEN THE OKAY WHEN HE WAS ACCEPTED TO BECOME A COMMUNITY WATCH DELEGATE?
I think that gave him the right to see where the one he suspected was going?
BYE
@Hard Right: It’s why Martin was there in the first place.
drj, are you now saying that Martin was there to buy weed?? huh?
@MataHarley:
There is no doubt in the mind of any rational thinking person that you have decided that George Zimmerman was guilty of something (aggression, stalking, et al) and that you have tried to provide senario after senario that it was Zimmerman who was the agressor and hence, guilty of at least manslaughter. You have tried to present the times of cell phone calls as evidence that what Trayvon Martin’s girlfriend has claimed the conversation with Trayvon was, in fact, the truth, when we know that cannot be proven without the audio of the actual conversation. We also have the father’s girl friend lying to a FoxOrlando reporter saying Trayvon was sitting on the porch when he was shot, the father telling the press that Trayvon was suspended from school for 10 days for being in a wrong part of the campus, when we now know that Trayvon was not shot while sitting on any porch and that he was suspended for being caught with a baggie with marijuana traces stuffed in his book bag and his high school has a zero tolerance policy for those kinds of things. Two lies, both given by those close to Trayvon. We also know that Tracy Martin stated that the calls for “Help” were not his son, only to change that story after he lawyered up and met with Al Sharpton.
We know that George Zimmerman claimed he was attacked by Martin, and that Zimmerman sustained injuries such as a broken nose, and lacerations on the back of his head. We know that a witness claimed he saw Trayvon beating Zimmerman’s head on the concrete sidewalk, and that it was Zimmerman, not Martin, calling for help. We do not know what other injuries Martin might have sustained during the scuffle, other than a single gun shot wound to the chest from close range.
But now you want to pee on our legs and tell us it’s raining by saying you are not taking sides. Do you really think those of us who read this blog, and post on it, are actually that damn stupid?
Fortunately for many of us, calmer head prevail when commenting on this case:
http://www.legalinsurrection.com
MATA do we know where the guy who call live ,and said the one in red is under and the other one is on top beating him; that guy john could see from his home what was going on?
and came back to look and said the one on top is down and I think he add the one in red is on top
not sure of my last word[ on top]
Mata, you might want to add (in your oh, so biased comments) that charges for assaulting a police officer were dropped, and the only other charges made against him by a former girlfriend, whose dog bite Zimmerman and who also pressed charges against her, of which both were dropped.
Still trying to build a case out of fairy wings, I see. You and Aye both need to take a trip to the Sanford PD since you have this case all figured out in your heads although neither one of you were there or actually a witness to what happened.
I see how it is… some can bring up Martin’s empty marijuana bag and suspensions, dissing his character, but no one can mention Zimmerman’s past?
Actually, neither have anything to do with this event. The only thing that does is how the altercation came down, who was acting in self defense, and whether shooting was considered proportionate response if Zimmerman was supposed to be the one exercising defense.
But still, if one wants to demonstrate their own bias, defending Zimmerman’s past, they ought to at least get the story straight… Charges dropped implies there was actually no guilt of a struggle and resisting arrest with a police officer. uh.. not quite.
Guess facts are as elusive as that 7-11, and not as obvious as the Great Wall of Sanford, eh?
I’m quite unaware of dog bites being considered domestic violence charges. But hey, with all the new definitions of “marriage” popping up, what do I know? LOL But it seems that Zimmerman and his ex had a pretty rocky relationship, and that the formal complaints happened more than once. The only guilt I see there is one a lot of people share… they both apparently picked mates badly.
So that leaves us right back to the issue at hand… can Zimmerman escape any scrutiny using the Stand Your Ground law, or does he have to face scrutiny via standard self defense laws, which examine the amount of force used in self defense?
I find it amazing that you can use Ctl F, search “MataHarley says:”, read thru my comments, and come up with the conclusion that I have have found Zimmerman guilty. What I’ve done is present the conflicts to the current story, and said this needs further investigation… but nooooo… we can’t have that, can we? But then the Cordoba House debate brought the personal venom and vitriol out in many as well. Can’t say this is anything new. But I’ll tell you what. It’s pretty hard to defend fellow conservatives when they have such strong objections to an investigation being revisited. And here I thought that most would believe in our system of options and oversight.
@MataHarley: Martin was in Sanford because of the suspension.
I wont waste my time typing at the willfully ignorant useful idiots here. But there is a good summary to be found at http://dumbolddad.blogspot.com/2012/03/since-our-entire-country-is-about-to.html
Hard Right
when ZIMMERMAN call , he gave his take on the other, now don’t forget he was not pursuing but answering questions from dispatcher of where LAYTON WHERE AND ZIM WAS WALKING WHILE HE WAS BEING QUESTION TO WHERE ABOUT OF THE PLACE FOR THE OTHER TO SITUATE THE EXACT LOCATION, AND THE YOUNG LAYTON WHICH WAS MOVING ALSO,
SO THAT WAS LEGIT OF HIM, RIGHT?
@ilovebeeswarzone:
That does not grant him police powers or similar protections, Bees.
Allow me to give some personal backround. For a few years I studied to be a police officer. During that time I learned about the legal use of lethal force. Due to medical and personal reasons, I ultimately chose not to pursue such a career. I also have studied the use of lethal force as a civilian. So I am familiar with what to do and not to do.
A few tips:
1) DO NOT put yourself in a situation where you are likely to have to use lethal force.
Taking a shortcut thru a bad area because you have a gun and can defend yourself is just stupid and asking for trouble. You are expected to try and avoid such situations because you are carrying a gun.
2) DO NOT be confrontational or verbally abusive.
While carrying, even tho I was in the right I have held my tongue and walked away from situations because of the potential for escalation. The police and jury won’t care if the person you shot called you all kinds of names before you shot them. They will care if you went right back at them and made things worse.
3) A gun SHOULD NOT be your only line of defense. Other tools (besides your brain) should be pepper spray, Taser, kuboton, etc.
4) All of the above tools should be employed only after you are unable to disengage/escape from the threat and physical violence against you is immediately imminent.
5) A gun does not make you right or invulnerable.
@drjohn:
Oh, but it was not the first time this “model” young man had been suspended.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html
And we all know that good kids who are not up to no good walk around with a dozen pieces of women’s jewelry in their backpacks given to them by a friend who they refuse to name, right?
And golly gee, seems like Trayvon’s mom can no longer give any press interviews unless Al Sharpton is standing by her side. Wonder if he is acting as her press agent.
Hard Right
yes thank you for all this info,
but but number 4 is what I think was the life or death decision,
even if he has to be reprimand, he has his life,
but you are right in all the rest,
bye
TSgt Ciz
this is very good ,I liked it
and I thank you for letting us in,
best to you
edit we are not willfull idiots
@MataHarley:
I don’t know who said that- can you tell me?
Zimmerman’s past has been all over the place and it’s in nearly every story in every left leaning website. What has NOT been examined is Trayvon Martin’s past. No one wants to dare scrutinize him.
drj, that would be both of nan g’d comments above. Either Zimmerman’s or Martin’s past have little bearing on how this situation played out, and what legal reasons the PD chose not to pursue a more thorough investigation.
MATA
you know what usual happen, you end up with all of the hard heads on your side,
ready to fight any liberal attacking you, and you do the same for them,
I JUST LOVE MY BLOG FLOPPING ACES, WOW DO WE WORK HARD ON YOU MATA,
BUT YOU’RE THE QUEEN OF THIS BLOG WHICH EVERYBODY RESPECT,
WHERE WOULD WE BE TAKING SO MUCH EMOTIONS IF IT WAS NOT OF YOU TAKING US
IN THE RUDE AWAKENING OF THE LAW IS THE LAW FOR ALL
YOUR THE BEST, WHO ELSE CAN TAKE PUNCHES LIKE YOU
BYE
Zimmerman is claiming he was walking back to his vehicle when Martin walked after him, they had some words and then Martin assaulted him.
IF that is true, he might be acquited.
I do recall a case here in AZ where two guys got into it in a road rage incident. One of them finally came to his senses and tried to end it and get away. The other driver pursued him and eventually forced the one trying to get away to shoot him. He was acquited.
Hard RIGHT
DID YOU CHECK AT RETIRE 05 ON HIS 255 THE LINK IS VERY TELLING NEW THINGS ABOUT LAYVON
@ TGsg CIZ, CHECK IT UP
@ retire05
thank you for 255
Mata, a little honesty from you. You have done everything you can to paint Zimmerman as the “aggressor” and indicate that you think he is guilty of something (agression, stalking, et al) and now you want us to believe that you are simple playing the part of the “fact” finder? Please, don’t insult our intellect.
Yes, the history of those involved is important. It gives us an insight into what kind of person each was. But you have gone out of your way to create senarios that are based on nothing but mere supposition (the time of the calls validates the statement of the GF).
Now, perhaps you can list those of us who disagree with your biased “facts” that there should be an open, and above-board investigation into what actually happened? I have said repeatedly that I was not there, and YOU WERE NOT THERE, AND AYE WAS NOT THERE, and consequently, none of us know what really happened. You have also gone out of your way to a) accuse the Sanford PD of botching this case b) accuse me of “hating” you and c) done everything in your power to present Zimmerman in a bad light and Martin in a good one.
Perhaps there are those who accept your authority on this issue. I am not one of them. Nor do I believe everything I read in your left wing press links (yes, all your press links are to left wing sources).
What saddens me the most about this whole thing is that a young man in dead, another young man’s life has been ruined, the parents are turning their son’s death into a payday and the race hustlers are getting their craving for face time on TV sated.
retire05
please stop pushing the envelope, and get of MATA’S BACK,
YOU VERY SMART AND YOU KNOW the language you should use instead of some offensive words,
we are all different, but none like to be offended on the same side even less,
I gave you a hint before, but this one is clear, no way to escape for you,
and I do like you, and read your smart comments too
take care
@MataHarley:
Agreed.
@ Dr John,
Well I guess we’ll have to disagree.
I do believe people are not bound to their past. However I also believe but they do (everyone I’ve ever known) tend to travel on trajectories.
The trajectory of Tray who bragged of taking a swing at a bus driver, was caught with what appeared to be stolen property and burglary tools, was spraying graffiti, found to have a empty pot bag and pipe, relished in either being in a gang or putting on the gang front…
This was a kid heading for the end that he came to. The only apparent question would appear to be, by whose hand if not George’s.
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/327850.php
@Nan G: #223
A sad facts about that incident, if it is true, is that a radio talk show host said that NONE of the countries that people were killed published the picture. I still have it in my iPhoto.
@TSgt Ciz: #224
I have learned from my mistakes. Because of them, I am highly educated. I also have been accused of things I didn’t do, and know how it feels.
@ilovebeeswarzone: #225
I am rarely accused of being “wise.” Thanks.
@DrJohn: DrJohn says: 259
Reply@MataHarley
Mata and DrJohn,
I brought up those facts not because I wish to ”diss” Trayvon, but rather because Trayvon had falsely been painted as a sweet, saintly little kid by people who knew better.
Revisionist history was originally called “MARXIST revisionist history” because it was created to channel the behavior of the masses (the original useful idiots) into the direction desired by the revisionists.
So…..
What are the motives of (NOT Trayvon or Zimmerman BUT) those revisionists.
The revisionists include Trayvon’s folks (money).
They also include the leftist media (laziness/helping Obama).
They also include many famous race-baiters like Sharpton, Farrakhan, Jackson, and the New Black Panther Party (corporate blackmail/gov’t bucks/face-time on TV).
And who are the useful idiots of the revisionists?
I’ll let you figure that one out.
But I’m not one of them.
Eventually the facts will come out…..some facts ARE out.
No reason to go running ahead to the lynching or execution (as some of these revisionists are doing) before we get to the bottom of what went down.
Zimmerman is paying a price and will pay more.
Could this be a ”teachable moment?”
Only if the things taught are fact-based.
Otherwise it is a propaganda game and Zimmerman as well as Trayvon are mere pawns in it.
Smorgasbord
hi,
I have known it from the beginning, and I stand by my accusation of you are a wise one,
bye
@retire05: #247
I would like to see the rules of the watch. I was on a Town Watch, and no guns were allowed, and we were not to follow. I am guessing most, if not all watch organizations are like that.
I will have to admit that if I was in a known high crime area, it would be hard for me not try to follow a suspect instead of letting them get away.
@DrJohn: HOW THE HELL CAN YOU WAIT FOR ALL OF THE FACTS WHEN ONE OF THE INDIVIDUALS INVOLVED CANNOT GIVE HIS SIDE?! HOW CAN WE TRUST ANYTHING THAT COMES OUT OF ZIMMERMAN’S MOUTH?? I FIND IT IRONIC THAT WHEN THERE IS NEGATIVITY TOWARDS AFRICAN-AMERICAN PEOPLE, THE “LIKES” ARE DOING NUMBERS. I’M NOT RACIST! I LOVE MY PEOPLE (I’M WHITE), BUT RIGHT IS RIGHT & WRONG IS WRONG! YOU PEOPLE ON HERE ARE JUST CREATING A PLACE TO BE ASSHOLES AND SHOW HATE TOWARDS ANOTHER RACE. THE ONLY BLACK FRIEND I HAD ISN’T EVEN TALKING TO ME BECAUSE OF THIS MESS! I JUST WANT IT ALL TO END. ALL BLACK PEOPLE AREN’T BAD! WHITES ARE OFTEN OVERLOOKED & ALL THE NEGATIVE ATTENTION IS DIRECTED TOWARDS THE MINORITY. WHAT HAPPENED IS A TRAGEDY. THINGS HAPPEN TO PEOPLE EVERYDAY, BUT AREN’T ALWAYS PUBLICIZED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Becca: hey , how about the FACT the only eye witnesses all say “saintly” Trayvon was BEATING the CRAP out of Zimmerman and bashing his head into a concrete sidewalk
btw, if “the only black friend” you had is not talking to you over this, it should tell you how much of a “friend” they are
@MataHarley: Thanks for the input Mata. I still don’t know which side of this I come down on. All I can be sure of is that it is a tragedy for both families, and the race baiters are only making it worse, not better.
I found this to be disturbing, though.
Mother Seeks Trayvon Martin Trademarks
@TSgt Ciz: The more I am learning, the more I believe we need to know as much about Martin as we do about Zimmerman.
@MataHarley: Mata
The car door opens at 2:10 and closes at 2:14. Zimmerman is out of the car and on his way before he is told not to pursue. And the dispatcher did say to advise him if the guy did anything else.
@Becca: Becca
It seems to me that half the country is offering us what they think is Martin’s side. Zimmerman’s side has been choked down.
What among the facts upsets you? With what do you have a problem?
@Becca: Becca
How did your friend feel about the Duke Lacrosse case? The same way?
Once it becomes very, very clear that things aren’t the way the media is portraying them (and it started with Trayvon’s picture) you begin to wonder what’s going on.
A white student at the University of Mississippi was killed on Saturday allegedly by three black assailants.
No Obama. No Sharpton, Jackson or Farrakhan.
An 18 year old black youth was shot and killed in Atlanta the other day by two black security cops.
No Obama, Sharpton, Jackson or Farrakhan.
Why?
Justice means all sides of the story need to be heard, not just one. You can’t go wobbly because you don’t like where the facts are leading.
@DrJohn: Zimmerman’s side comes out pieces at a time. He has time to concoct different stories. I’m not saying he’s lying, but I’m not going to say he’s telling the truth either. The only reason I commented in the first place is because there’s nothing but HATE comments towards blacks on here. That pisses me off. I’m not the least bit surprised that my comment as a thumbs down
@Becca:
Not really. The police have his account on record from that night. Nothing suggests he has changed a thing, especially given we haven’t heard a thing from Zimmerman, who’s been targeted for
assassination“capture” by the NBPP. As the facts emerge, they tend to support Zimmerman more and more.Becca
hi, it has more to do with the one who attack the neighborhood delegate, and brutally beat him,
the color was not the issue, until they start to mention the profile of both,
we where focussing on the actions of both not the color of both,
bye
Well think you guys are a buch of racist assholes! President Obama did not once speak up on the Troy Davis case that sparked media attention! I’m from Savannah, Ga and i currently live in Palmdale, CA with my husband because I’m in the military. I’m 39 years old and I’ve been all over the world. I hear news about BLACK people being killed by whites and its not always publicized as i’m sure the situation is vice versa. The black friend is my 16-year-old son’s bestfriend’s father. He doesnt stop our children from hangong out, but its obvious he doesnt have anymore words for me or my husband. My son initially tried to post his comment, but it didnt go through. What he said was: he told his friend to stop saying “I am Trayvon Martin” because that isn’t his name. My daughter is 14-years-old and apparently she was in on the conversation as well. My son told him that he should already know that whites run everything in the world, dont play dumb. My daughter added insult to injury by stating “If something happens to us, they do more to try to prosecute the suspect. But like if you guys go missing or something, no-one hears about it after 48 hours” they weren’t trying to offend him. That eventually lead to an in depth conversation about racism. Our kids joke all the time. The reason why this child’s feelings were hurt is because it’s the truth. As my husband was pulling in the driveway of our home, Mike was riding by and they had words, which then led to an argument. My husband came in the house furious so i asked what the problem was. When he told me, I was livid! After talking to our kids, we learned that they earnestly didn’t mean any harm by what they said so I wasn’t upset with them. My son said they apologized and they’re back talking. Unfortunately, the parents aren’t as forgiving as the children are. Racism still exists. Blacks against white & whites against blacks. I never felt Zimmerman’s actions were a hate crime. But i honestly believed Trayvon Martin was stereotyped
I’m done with this discussion, because my opinions don’t matter. It won’t change anything. But read more into the situation instead of what you want to believe. You can hate me or whatever, but I hope you guys enjoy your day. BYE