Secession Is A Radical Solution That Sadly Doesn’t Seem So Radical Any More

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Some things in life are constant. My entire life America has been one of those things.  Despite Vietnam, Watergate, Iran Contra, the Dot Com bubble, 9/11, Hurricane Katrina, the Great Recession and more, the United States has been constant.

America, rife with internal conflicts, differing opinions and more than a few lying politicians was always the land of freedom, the land of opportunity, and the land of endless possibilities.

America and freedom were like the earth below us and the sun and the stars above… constants.

But constant is relative…  Wait long enough and the earth will be gone. Wait long enough and the sun and the stars will be gone. So too with nations. Ronald Reagan knew this.  He said:  Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction.  That generation is upon us and we are most certainly watching in real time as American freedom is extinguished, and with it America.

America was fundamentally built on freedoms guaranteed by our Constitution.  Freedom of speech, religion, the right to peaceably to assemble and to petition the Government.  But it’s not just the Constitution itself that makes America.  It’s ideas that flow from it and our history.  Free markets, private property, entrepreneurship, 4th of July, baseball, high school debate team, cars, suburbs, bake sales, Thanksgiving dinner, spelling bees, Pledge of Allegiance, Christmas antlers,  the National Anthem and more.

All of that, both the actual rights and the ideas beyond them all are under attack in America of 2021.  Whether petty tyrants using the Covid hysteria to eviscerate our freedoms of religion and assembly and to crush our businesses or social media oligarchs shutting down debate in the 21st century town square or education departments causing Martin Luther King to spin in his grave as they abandon his dream, the America of Norman Rockwell paintings is being torn apart idea by idea by idea.

This past summer Americans were helpless as cities from coast to coast burned in response to the killing of George Floyd and they were told the violence was understandable and “mostly peaceful protests”.  This past year many Americans saw their lives upended as their jobs or businesses were destroyed, their families turned into strangers and churches and schools turned into ghost towns as a result of a disease with a 99.99% survival rate, but we were told that America was facing the gravest public health threat in history.  Now we’re watching as children are taught that math is racist, that hard work is racist, and there is no difference between boys and girls and we’re told that all of this is healthy and reasonable.



At the same time, we’ve watched our history upended as we see monuments to our heroes, from Columbus to Washington to Grant and Lincoln to Booker T. Washington to Reagan toppled in the name of racism!  We’ve watched the indoctrination of grievance as the defining characteristic of American life.  We’ve witnessed the politicization of every single aspect of American society, where everything from sitcoms to sports to sex no longer have intrinsic value on their own, but rather have become mere Rorschach tests for measuring one’s degree of submission to the new normal.

America has become a nation where objective reality no longer matters, where the free exchange of ideas is no longer allowed and where the exercise of an individual’s rights are tolerated only to the degree that they do not hurt the feelings of some aggrieved victim class.  America has become a bizzarro world where everything from science to math and history to law are no longer constants upon which society rests but rather malleable frameworks for the destruction of everything that does not comport with todays’ woke mores.

And so it is thorough this looking glass one wonders what is the solution?  In 2016 Americans went to the ballot box and said they’d had enough of the perversion of everything ostensibly American into a cancer on the history of the world and elected a leader who was unabashedly patriotic.  After four years of constant, relentless lies about said leader they returned to the ballot box and reelected the man who was seeking to upend the demonization of America, only to have the election stolen under the cover of the night.  That theft was enabled by the fiction of an existential threat to life on earth posed by a novel virus. Americans went to the ballot box and their will was thwarted.

Rather than set the nation afire, jilted voters looked to the courts for a Constitutional remedy.  A split Supreme Court had demurred from solving the problem before the election but after the election had the opportunity to revisit the question before the votes were certified.  Again they demurred. Once the fraudulent administration was in place the Court had one last opportunity to address the fraud once and for all, and again chose not to act.

So we have a circumstance where citizens go to the polls only to watch those votes stolen.  They then petition the nation’s highest court for redress and are rebuffed.  As they watch the cabal who perpetrated the theft work to institutionalize the very tools with which they purloined the election in the first place, what are citizens who revere the Constitution and love liberty supposed to do?

Do they stand by and watch as what’s left of their country is taken over by those for whom freedom and rule of law are simply obstacles to the permanent domination over the nation?  Become slaves on a modern day plantation where Silicon Valley, Wall Street and Washington are the masters and the woke anarchists are the overseers who keep everyone in line?  Riot in the streets like BLM and Antifa have done so often?

Or they could pursue secession, where the woke are welcome to the coasts while the heartland and the south choose freedom and the Constitution…  It is indeed a radical notion, but the constant of the free America most of us knew is gone so perhaps the time has come…  When all conventional Constitutional avenues have been impeded, when opponents seek to eliminate citizens’ Constitutional rights and thwart the language of the document itself, what other choice is left?  We can accept the slow death of the Republic as the gangrene of wokness starves the body politic of the blood of freedom, or amputate the cancerous limbs and allow freedom to flow once again through the veins of a nation defined by liberty.  The left has made the radical normal.  Secession is a radical solution that sadly doesn’t seem so radical any more.

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It’s unfortunate that the minority Leftwing Cultists don’t see their distorted ideologies can only exist in a country paid for and supported by normal working Americans: aka, Trump voters.

In violation of the Constitution, Democrats are trying to change the governmental structure into something we didn’t vote for.

For that, they must either re-commit themselves to being part of our Constitutional Republic, or get out.

I’d support letting Leftist have a small portion of the United States to set up their dictatorship…as it would only take a few years before all their “citizens” left, died, or begged to rejoin the Union.

Like the Confederacy, the Democrat Socialist States are doomed to fail.

Or they could pursue secession, where the woke are welcome to the coasts while the heartland and the south choose freedom and the Constitution. ….

I like your suggestion, Vince.
It doesn’t leave individual states grappling with the hard aspects of things like you mentioned at the start:

Vietnam, Watergate, Iran Contra, the Dot Com bubble, 9/11, Hurricane Katrina, the Great Recession.

Just last week Texas realized it could not succeed had it seceded on its own.
(And many in Texas were considering just that!)
The state was ravaged by a deep freeze that was made worse by imposition of federal mandates in how it sourced its energy.
It needed the federal gov’t.
And, because Biden’s handlers hate Red State America, only a minority of its Counties got the aid it should have been getting as a state.
And entire Red State Nation could have done a better job.
One half of the plumbers from the outfit I use here in Utah have traveled to Texas just to repair broken pipes that are everywhere in that great state.
Other Red State plumbers are doing the same.
It is just like Texas’ own Red Neck Navy in this regard.
We see a need and we chip in to help.

It can only work this way, not as single nation-states.
We’re too interconnected for that.
And, internationally, the world’s other powers would walk all over us if we became so many individual nation-states.

Secession is like a slow retreat before an oncoming enemy. Yet, if we can’t maintain our rights within the union once known as the UNITED States, then to preserve those right, if even for a little longer and to provide NEW options to fight their erosion, secession could be an option. Once the Democrats have put their election fraud techniques into law, as in HR1, the time to pull the trigger on secession would arrive.

@Nan G: Nan, you missed the reality last week. Texas did survive without external assistance. the Biden administration refused to allow Texas to use legacy energy generation to make up for the loss of the renewables. It was not fun and a lot of damage remains to be fixed, but Texas with its own grid survived and will be stronger for it.

Nullification might be a starting position. Installing a State electoral system might cure the problems. Wait, let me explain – the Federal Electoral system was created to keep large populated states from controlling the nation by the number of votes vs smaller populated states. Democracy or ‘majority rule’ was something our brilliant forefathers wanted to avoid.
Find and peruse a voting map display by county. Large populations in cities control the electoral votes in All states. Secession will not fix this disparity where all rural counties have little or no representation. We can fix this problem by establishing a county based electoral system in each state. OK, even if a state does secede, they should still establish an electoral system to protect themselves from a population biased system of control.

I think this is spot-on. Red states can actually ‘secede’ by a) voting to simply ignore all federal dictates; and b) vote to stop sending tax dollars to Washington.

Biden’s handlers could always order the U.S. military to invade former U.S. states, but that won’t play out well for the world to see and it will give our enemies opportunities to ‘do things’ while we’re tied down internally.

It’s win-win; the left gets their utopia and the right gets our country back.

I have, for some time now, been an advocate for secession. The political and industrial oligarchs that have now usurped control of our country have created a dystopian mindset so diametrically opposed to the fundamental principles of America’s founding that in order to remain a united nation, we as conservatives face one of two options: eschew logic and common sense and subscribe to the left’s insanity or face a lifetime of persecution for refusing to be co-opted. Give us the“flyover country” that the left treats with disdain, from the northern border to the Gulf with the natural borders of the Mississippi to the East and the Rockies to the West. Plenty of farmland and natural resources, access to sea lanes, variable terrain and climate. Let the idiots have the coasts. In ten years, we’ll be thriving and prosperous as we watch them sink into totalitarian socialist misery.

It’s quite obvious we are two different peoples living in the same country. All we really have in common is that we share the same piece of real estate. During the Civil War both sides knew there were only two genders. Now we can’t even agree on something as fundamental as that. The left wants total control and to use government to shove their beliefs down our throats. The rest of us want to be governed in accordance with our Constitution. Totalitarianism and freedom are incompatible with each other. You can’t have both.

If secession does take place, it won’t be like 1861. It will be more complex. Movements will take place within the states themselves and already have. Eastern Oregon is looking to break away and join Idaho and counties in Virginia are looking to break away and join West Virginia. As the left continues its totalitarian ways, these types of movements will only grow stronger.

@Dynamite rabbit:

Let the idiots have the coasts. In ten years, we’ll be thriving and prosperous as we watch them sink into totalitarian socialist misery.

The “lowlifes” would have over 90% of the farmland and natural resources that they despise. It’s kind of hard to grow food on concrete. It’s also kind of hard to power up urban “cultural centers” with wind and solar power. Imagine being hungry and without power for long periods of time.

“Just last week Texas realized it could not succeed had it seceded on its own. “@Nan G:
“The state was ravaged by a deep freeze that was made worse by imposition of federal mandates in how it sourced its energy.
It needed the federal gov’t.”

Interesting logic; Had Texas already seceded, it would not have been ravaged by imposition of federal mandates.
As for Texas “needing” the federal government, TEXIT is already on the legislature’s calendar for a referendum vote. We need federal “help” like we need snow mobiles in our garages.

@Duncan Smith:
“Biden’s handlers could always order the U.S. military to invade former U.S. states… .”

Deja vu again already ! Exactly what “Honest” Abe Lincoln did, while killing 400,000 Southerners. Different technology this time, though, and take a look at a pipeline map showing hundreds of miles of oil & gas pipelines leading north from Texas and Louisiana, easily interdicted in a few days .

@Alej Marcos:
My point was that the original post idea of seceding as a Red State Bloc* makes much more sense than seceding as 40-some individual states.
You see Texas as seceding successfully,(and you might be right) but by doing so littler red states will be more easily forced to stay in the union with the Left.
Most states could not secede and have it work out.

*

Or they could pursue secession, where……..the heartland and the south choose freedom and the Constitution… It is indeed a radical notion, but the constant of the free America most of us knew is gone so perhaps the time has come…
When all conventional Constitutional avenues have been impeded, when opponents seek to eliminate citizens’ Constitutional rights and thwart the language of the document itself, what other choice is left?
We can ……..amputate the cancerous limbs [of wokeness] and allow freedom to flow once again through the veins of a nation defined by liberty.

@Nathan Blue:

can only exist in a country paid for and supported by normal working Americans: aka, Trump voters.

You have it backward. Red states take, overall, more in Federal dollars than they pay in taxes; blue states pay, overall, more than they take.

Don’t let the doorknob hit you in the butt.

@Alej Marcos: Texas would “secede”…well, eject those minority Blue Americans really with the aid of at least 30 other states.

The majority of Americans didn’t vote for Biden, and don’t want a new non-Constitutional government.

When the break happens, though, that’s when the Chinese come in through Canada with the help of the Democrats.

It’s a possibility.

@Nathan Blue:

So Much Winning: Trump Outscored Obama On Five Key Metrics — Pollster

@retire05: Imagine what that poll will look like after comparing Trump to a few more months of the idiot Biden.

@Michael:

Don’t let the doorknob hit you in the butt.

Better work on your Chinese. Our “secession” is merely kicking fools like you out.

@Deplorable Me:

Imagine what that poll will look like after comparing Trump to a few more months of the idiot Biden.

Polls are manufactured afterall, so I’m sure it will say Biden is “historically” popular.

The only thing historic about Biden is that he’s America’s first Dictator.

@Nathan Blue: I dont give Biden dick tater status he is just a tater, as the White House feed was cut when he offered to answer questions .
No jello for him wandering outside of permitted words.
My bet is the Pentagon and CIA are running the country and far radical left is running Joe bidet.

@kitt:

My bet is the Pentagon and CIA are running the country and far radical left is running Joe bidet.

It really makes you wonder what’s really going on. Is this what the aliens asked for before they’d come down?

None of this makes sense, at all. The most prosperous nation in history suddenly embraced genocidal tyranny like desperate 20th Century Germany or Russia?

I still want to know how they indoctrinated our intelligence agencies.

There’s some “vision” being sold that we are not privy to.

@Nathan Blue: Our IC has always been corrupt, formed from Nazis spies after WW2, they were pissed at Russia an ally in 2 world wars against Germany then there was the cold war. We did not just grab rocket scientists for Paperclip.
The White middle class are now the targets for destruction since Barry put communists and muslims in key positions.
The Black Vault is an excellent source for FOIA documents. Operation Mockingbird never ended.

OK…I have an honest question: how many people actually support what is going on in the US? Yes, Antifa supports it, half of congress supports it (well, right now just a little over half)…the MSM loudly support it. The oligarchs who run facebook, twitter, and such support it. How many actual citizens are there who really believe that Dr. Seuss needs to be muzzled? How many actual citizens actually believe that George Washington needs to be erased from history?

My question is, if we had a fair poll (which, right now, is basically controlled by the MSM and oligarchs)…but if we did have it, would 50% of the population actually support what is going on? Somehow, I think not. Perhaps what we have is (to revisit the past) a silent majority who chose not to speak out. Either because they are afraid of blow-back or because they are busy working for a living. Or whatever else makes most of us not voice our outrage.

Perhaps instead of secession we should just…all of us who aren’t in favor of this stupidity…just make our voices heard. Don’t give the idiots what they want, just take back our country. We no doubt outnumber them. No doubt

@jvcyclist: That’s why it took massive amounts of election fraud to get us to this point.

@Deplorable Me:
No doubt

@Nathan Blue:
Your statement using the fall of the Confederacy as an example of failure doesn’t address the question of why the Confederate States seceded in the first place. By reading your post, I believe you to be someone who believes that political dictatorship or oppression should be cause for people of an opposing viewpoint to choose their own method of government and declare themselves a sovereign state. I submit to you that the Southern people of the middle 1800’s felt this way as well. State’s rights was important in the South’s decision to secede and form the Confederacy but, to the scholar of today, it’s an unknown factor. One hundred fifty six years later, only one of the many complex reasons for that war is ever mentioned, because the victors wrote it’s history.

@Gmar: I didn’t use the fall of the Confederacy as an example. Perhaps you meant to respond to somebody else?

I don’t see many parallels with today’s situation, to speak to your point anyway.

The social contract that we’ve all agreed to is that our government is based on the Constitution of the United States, and that we have free and fair elections that are not tampered with or manipulated to a point that the outcome can be manufactured.

When those two items are broken, the the government of “by the people” has been replaced with simple absolutism, then no citizen is under any legal or moral duty to adhere to the federal government in any way shape or form.

The Democrats are literally forming a new government. To resist that or simply kick them out is not secession.

It’s simply being an actual American.

Tempting, but I think you’re looking at it backwards. Let’s not secede. Let’s kick certain states out.

@SpamDump:

Let’s not secede. Let’s kick certain states out.

That’s my thought. I think everyone who is part of “Red” America needs to use different language. Already Blue America is calling it secession, and likening it to the Confederacy…because racism.

A peaceful, or hostile, divorce.

I posted this one here before. It definitely applies to the thread’s topic. From the late, great Walter Williams.

https://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2010/04/07/parting-company-n1218234

@another vet:
100% in agreement with Walter Williams. It’s sad; we will not see the likes of him again.

@Nathan Blue:
I don’t disagree with your reasoning for secession at all. As a Southerner, I’m sensitive to the fact that when most people today see or hear the word Confederacy they immediately associate it with racism and slavery when in fact most Southerners of that period never participated or believed in that institution. To the many who gave life and limb in that conflict, it was as much a war for independence as was the American Revolution. Their fall was due to the overwhelming armed forces and logistics of the Northern states.

@Gmar:

100% in agreement with Walter Williams. It’s sad; we will not see the likes of him again.

He’d be censored, banned, and labeled a “domestic terrorist”.

State’s rights was important in the South’s decision to secede and form the Confederacy

I actually did my senior thesis in History arguing that very point and I live in the People’s Republic of Illinois. Being a much older student at the time, the college professors couldn’t BS me the way they could the younger ones.

@Michael:
Document that, please, and I’ll consider it.

@another vet:
I would have enjoyed reading your thesis. My grandchildren were taught almost nothing of American History. For years progressive professors have been in revision history mode and now the cancel culture is in the process of eliminating it entirely.

@Gmar: Teaching real history would be detrimental to their objectives. People would realize how evil Communism really is and how what the demokrats are doing today closely parallels what the Bolsheviks (and their proteges from Mao to Castro) did over 100 years ago. They also have apparently stopped teaching the scientific method because that too is detrimental to their objectives. A school teacher friend of mine said the kids are now taught that how they feel about something is far more important than whether or not it has been proven via the scientific method. Hence the belief that there are 50 plus “genders”.

@another vet:
The only way to stem the tide of this Communist movement is the separation of states as there is no other avenue, that I can see, for freedom loving people. The deep state aka the DOJ, FBI, CIA, IRS, Federal & Supreme Courts, Democrats and Rinos in Congress coupled with the crooked election process have established a dual standard that ensures their goal for absolute power. Their lapdogs including the main stream & social medias, hollywood, the education system and global corporations (try to be less white) are suppressing free speech while their woke hitmen antifa and blm are murdering, destroying property and intimidating private citizens with impunity.

@Gmar:
Nothing new, amigo. When Washington finally had Cornwallis cornered on the end of the peninsula at Yorktown, he desperately needed more men to break through the Brit perimeter to complete the victory; he sent dispatches to the New York military for help, but the New York government said, “Not my problem.”
Adm DeGrasse landed 4000 French Marines shortly afterward to seal the deal.

I don’t want half or more of this country’s residents as neighbors. Universal suffrage will finally be shown to have been the terminal illness of America,

@1G25:
Totally agree with your assessment!

@Alej Marcos, #34:

Donor states vs. recipient states, as of 2021

“Balance of payments is the amount of revenue paid to the federal government from a state’s residents and economy (taxes) minus the amount of federal spending in that state. Donor states pay more to the federal government in taxes than they receive back in funding.”

A negative balance shows how much more a state pays per capita to the federal government than it receives back per capita in the form of federal spending within the state. States with a negative balance are donor states.

A positive balance shows how much more is received from the federal government per capita than a state pays in.

Place your cursor over any state on the map to see the figure.

Succession would immediately turn many states into economic disaster areas. Maybe they could make up for their elders’ loss of Social Security income and Medicare coverage by printing up and passing out the equivalent of Confederate currency, but that problem would only be the tip of the iceberg.

@Greg: Except those so-called “donor states” extract massive state income taxes, which are then used as exemptions on federal income taxes. So, the rest of the taxpayers are fotting part of the bill for the failed states’ income taxes.

@Deplorable Me, #41:

Except those so-called “donor states” extract massive state income taxes, which are then used as exemptions on federal income taxes. So, the rest of the taxpayers are footing part of the bill for the failed states’ income taxes.

I don’t follow the reasoning there. Inflating federal tax exemptions would decrease federal taxes paid, lessening their status as donor states.

They’re donor states because they pay more in federal taxes than they get back in federal dollars spent.

Generally speaking, I don’t favor session, but being a part of the victim-culture, crybaby police state the Democrats envision is not appealing at all.

@Greg: Uh… BINGO. Their DEDUCTIONS are not part of the calculus.

@Deplorable Me, #43:

Deductions have nothing at all to do with it. The comparison is between total tax dollars actually received by the federal government from a state and total federal dollars that are returned to that state and its residents in the form of federal spending.

Generally speaking, red states are subsidized by the federal government to a greater extent than blue states. Of the 8 states that pay more in federal taxes than they receive back in federal spending, only one—Utah—is a red state. Interestingly, it also is home to a private system of socialism managed by the Mormon church. Apparently there is such a thing as socialist republicans.

@Greg: There is the taxes owed then the deductions remitted. Democrat run states are failed catastrophes in unpayable debt.

@Greg: If they have a higher population seems more taxes will be paid in. The governor of NY is fixing that by driving his taxpayers to other states. People are selling for a loss to get out of NY city.

@Michael: The article is invalid, and just another “nuh-uh, you guys are guilty of what we were caught doing on tape!” hoax perpetrated by the Left.

Democrat State policies, mostly CA, IL, OR, WA, and NY are a disaster.

Facts.

Glad the AP, and extension of the Democrat Party, could offer some proof of Red States subsidizing Blue states by just claiming “nuh uh, it’s the other way around!”

No, it’s not.

Hope you got fired this year. You’re not fit to teach anyone.