Dick Morris appeared on Fox and Friends this morning and was eerily prescient. The crew was discussing Fast and Furious and the possible Eric Holder Contempt of Congress vote that looms. Someone asked Morris what he thought was going on and Morris said that it seemed that Obama was going to allow Holder to take the hits on his own over F&F. Otherwise Obama would drop a cloak of Executive Privilege over the documents, but that would in turn make it appear as though Barack Obama was directly involved in the mess.
And now it appears he is directly involved.
President Obama on Wednesday asserted executive privilege over documents sought by a House panel ahead of a scheduled panel vote where Attorney General Eric Holder is expected to be held in contempt of Congress.
It’s the first time Obama has used executive privilege since taking office. A White House aide said the president had gone longer without asserting the privilege in a congressional dispute than any other president in the last three decades.
Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), the chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, said his panel was “evaluating” a letter from Deputy Attorney General James Cole asserting the privilege that arrived minutes before Issa’s committee was to begin contempt proceedings. The vote was to take place Wednesday after a last-ditch effort to reach a deal over documents related to Operation Fast and Furious failed on Tuesday night.
Iowa Senator Chuck Grassley asked some pointed questions about the assertion of Privilege:
““The assertion of executive privilege raises monumental questions. How can the President assert executive privilege if there was no White House involvement? How can the President exert executive privilege over documents he’s supposedly never seen? Is something very big being hidden to go to this extreme? The contempt citation is an important procedural mechanism in our system of checks and balances. The questions from Congress go to determining what happened in a disastrous government program for accountability and so that it’s never repeated again.”
Watch and listen to this hypocrite be critical of hiding behind Executive Privilege
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpwYh9TD6Nc[/youtube]
The man who just can’t shut up when it comes to some national secrets clearly doesn’t want something discovered. Now it seems highly likely that this scandal goes right to the top. Yet if not, Obama has learned nothing from Watergate.
It’s like Obama said
“I think the American people deserve to know what was going on.”
Obama has denied any knowledge of the tragic gun running operation. Either Executive Privilege does not apply or Obama is directly involved and has lied about it.
UPDATE
It’s really hitting the fan
No sooner does Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee jump to Holder’s defense and tries to pin F&F falsely on Bush
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk8Dv419H-4[/youtube]
than Holder retracts that assertion
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XypVcv77WBU[/youtube]
DrJohn has been a health care professional for more than 30 years. In addition to clinical practice he has done extensive research and has published widely with over 70 original articles and abstracts in the peer-reviewed literature. DrJohn is well known in his field and has lectured on every continent except for Antarctica. He has been married to the same wonderful lady for over 30 years and has three kids- two sons, both of whom are attorneys and one daughter on her way into the field of education.
DrJohn was brought up with the concept that one can do well if one is prepared to work hard but nothing in life is guaranteed.
Except for liberals being foolish.
@Greg:
“Obvious they’re of little consequence to the NRA, that denied the relevance of 68,000 illegal guns traced back to U.S. sources”
Well, Greg, perhaps you would like to provide a link that quotes the NRA stating that those guns are of no relevance? Or do you just pull thoughts out of your lower oriface and throw them out to see if they will stick?
Also, I suggest you read the Stratfor article on these guns you claim traced back to the U.S. equaled 68,000. People smarter than you (and that is not hard to acheive) have debunked your numbers so many times they must get tired of doing so.
But then, we know that people who get their “news” from websites that you favor, generally tend to be poorly informed.
Randy
hi,
yes but now you told them how to hide them in their socks, it is a great idea,
by the way, you seem to know that trick, I bet you used it in the warzone, and what was it that you where hiding then?
a KURKIS KNIFE MAYBE.
bye
@Greg:
Greg, if you are dening that Holder perjured himself in front of a Congressional hearing, your brain is lamer than I originally thought.
@retire05, #104:
If Issa believes he can prove that a deliberate misstatement of fact was made by Holder under oath he should give it a shot. What the right is far more likely to do is to publicly use the word “perjury” as much as possible, without ever bringing the charge. That’s in keeping with the actual political function of Darrell Issa’s election year production.
I don’t think mention of Fast and Furious by name in a memo that landed in Holder’s in-basket, or mention of the program in a couple of e-mails, clearly establishes that the details of the program were sufficiently high profile at that point for him to have had full knowledge of it. It would have been only one of how many ongoing operations being conducted by how many federal entities at that time? There would be constant interdepartmental and intradepartmental communications regarding all of them, and many would include copies directed to Holder’s office. You do understand the nature of any large bureaucracy and the enormous volume of internal communications that are involved, I assume.
Then there’s the careful way Holder prefaced his response during Issa’s decidedly rude and offensive line of questioning. (The video of that is on the same CBS page.): “I’m not sure of the exact date, but I probably heard about Fast and Furious for the first time over the last few weeks.” Holder is no idiot. He isn’t going to give definite answers under oath when he’s not really sure.
The word “perjury” will be bantered about endlessly in the media because it adds to the story interest–the one thing the media prizes most–but there’s no way in hell it could be established in a court of law that Holder actually committed that illegal act.
one thing is sure, that OBAMA will bite his tongue before he blame the CONGRESS ON ALL HIS FAILURES FROM NOW ON, THE PEOPLE NOW DON’T BELIEVE HIS LIES ANYMORE, AND THE PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF SEEING HIM BLAMING EVERYONE EXCEPT TAKE HIS OWN BLAME,
NOW OBAMA HAS AWAKEN THE FRIENDLY GIANT OF AMERICA,
THE GIANT BENEVOLENT WHO PASS THE OBAMA’S LAWS AT THE BEGINNING THINKING OBAMA KNEW TO NOT WASTE THE PEOPLE’S MONEY ON HIS FANTASY DREAMS WHICH DID NOT PRODUCE JOBS,
AND THE PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF BEING TAKEN FOR BRAINLESS HUMAM BECAUSE THEY WHERE TOLERANT ENOUGH TO ALLOW HIM ON NO ABILITY DEMONSTRATED THAT HE COULD DO THE JOB,
NOT EVEN A BIRTH CERTIFICAT YET LEGIT, OBAMA WAS GIVEN THE GREATEST GIFT FROM THE AMERICANS, AND HE COULD HAVE SAID THANK YOU BUT I AM NOT QUALIFIED, NO,
HE TOOK THE JOB SILENTLY HIDING, AND NOW THE TIME IS COMING FOR THE PEOPLE TO ASK QUESTION LOTS OF THEM,
@Richard Wheeler: Actually we are having a great time watching you guys go off the deep end defending the indefensible. I would love for you or Greg to look Terry’s family straight in the eyes and tell them this is no big deal, nothing that was done is wrong, there was a similar program under Bush so it was justifiable, and that it is not worth pursuing because there is no political gain from it as you advocated on the other thread. As to why this needs to be pursued, it’s called doing what is right. I was in the Army but in order to understand where you are coming from in defending the actions of the this administration on this, I looked up the definition of ‘courage’ according to the Marine leadership traits because it applies here. Pay very close attention to the fourth sentence. Needless to say, I don’t believe your position is based on anything you learned in the USMC. Obviously the whistleblowers in this who have been faced retribution from this Justice Dept. adhered to this trait.
Courage: Simply stated, courage is honor in action — and more. Courage is moral strength, the will to heed the inner voice of conscience, the will to do what is right regardless of the conduct of others. It is mental discipline, an adherence to a higher standard. Courage means willingness to take a stand for what is right in spite of adverse consequences. This courage, throughout the history of the Corps, has sustained Marines during the chaos, perils, and hardships of combat. And each day, it enables each Marine to look in the mirror — and smile.
The right has been using Terry’s bereaved and angry parents in their effort to score points. Personally, I find that sort of political exploitation of someone’s loss more than a little contemptible.
@Greg: Who is going to stick up for them, you?
A.V. Thanks for that definition of courage. Something we all hope we have when called apon.
As you know, it’s my one man’s opinion,that some over zealous ATF agents hatched this disasterous operation which was a basic continuence of a previously failed program. Let’s bring those agents in for questioning and see where it leads us. I got no problem with WHOEVER IS RESPONSIBLE GOING DOWN.
I personally don’t think this a conspiracy to abrogate the 2nd Amendent Do you?
BTW I am very proud of my service as an Officer of Marines and it does make me smile most every day.
Semper Fi Thanks for your service!!
@Greg: Look what happened to Scooter libby for not remembering what he had previously said. Dems set the rules and now they can not live with them? This whole F & F has the smell of Holder. Those wire tap applications with high level signatures lends credability. Lying under oath is a crime unless the liar doesn’t know what the definition of IT is.
@another vet: Good find TOP. If Greg and Rich ever understood what courage meant, they forgot it quickly and replaced it with stupid. If Stewart can see the light, the Dems are in trouble!
@Greg: Actually, I believe that Terry’s family is feeling what everyone who understands F & F feels. They decided to step up and make their frustrations with Obama and his government public. When an administration lies for so long to the people, only fools like you continue to believe the spin!
@Randy, #111:
The confidential wire tap applications that Darrell Issa has apparently obtained by illegal means? If I understand the situation correctly, we have only his word for it that they prove anything, and it would be a serious federal crime for him to make the contents public. The guy is skating on thin ice. The DOJ probably has a legal obligation to investigate how the documents were acquired.
Just because you claim a wiretap is illegal, Greg, does not make it illegal. It is Washington DC, wiretapping of politicans and beurcrats happens from the fact that most conservsations are mandated to be recorded by laws within the Municpality of DC and by Federal Law to record politicans’ actions.
Try again, Bragg.
@Randy, #113:
I understand their frustration, but I’m not sure it’s properly directed. Issa is so totally obsessed with getting at Holder and Obama that he may have allowed himself to be misdirected to where he wanted to go in the first place. Whistle blowing can be a means of misdirection. I think it’s entirely possible that the gun walker programs were conceived and botched up at lower managerial and operational levels, with DOJ involvement far off in the bureaucratic distance.
@Greg: So, if the documents exist that shows Holder and maybe Obama were complicit in F & F, they are not real because they were not obtained legally? Didn’t you just under mine your whole argument here for the past days? Isn’t that what Issa is trying to obtain legally? By they way, illigally obtained documents are legal if the person using them did nothing illigal to obtain them!
Randy, the guy’s proven himself time and again to be a dimwit that destroys his own logic if the argument has to be shifted to deflect the topic at hand.
Trying to explain reality to Greg is like trying to get a horse to drink water.
@Greg: Check this out. It lays out the case very well and a similar analysis can be found on many other sites. http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/06/fast_and_furious_falling_apart.html This is what F & F is about. All of Obama’s thugs are only implementing his vision.
@Mr. Irons, #115:
No one is saying there was something illegal about the wire taps or the confidential applications detailing the reasons for them. What is illegal is how they got into Issa’s hands. His legal powers don’t include dealing with moles inside Executive Branch offices.
So it’s not not illegal?
Which is your point about Issa then, if you just voided your own argument?
@Richard Wheeler: Glad to see that you are backing off your original claim on the other thread that left the impression that this a matter that shouldn’t be pursued because there is nothing to be gained politically. We really won’t know how far this goes up until those documents get turned over.
This was not a continuance of the other operation. That ended in 2007. This was new. According to multiple new sources, including liberal CBS, there is documentation that an aim of this program was to put forth more gun control laws. The individuals who passed this memo are the same ones who were involved in this operation that had gun dealers violating existing gun laws in order to send these guns into Mexico. Let’s break some laws so we can create some new ones to make up for the ones we broke. Pretty damn stupid.
@Mr. Irons, #121:
There was never anything illegal about the wiretaps. Evidently they were properly applied for and duly authorized by a federal judge in connection with ongoing criminal investigations. All of this was confidential. That means you don’t secretly carry photocopies or whatever out of a Department of Justice office and hand them over to Darrell Issa. That would be illegal. And it would be illegal for Issa to reveal the contents of sensitive documents that he has no authority to possess. This is not sufficiently clear?
@Greg: Missed the point again Greg. The point is: IF THE DOCUMENTS EXIST THAT PROVES ISSA’S POINT, THEN HOLDER HAS COMMITTED A CRIME! I needed toput this in CAPs to make sure you could read it. The wire tap applications were not classified, they were sealed! I wonder why the remain sealed? Could it have anything to do with trying to prevent a conviction of high level members of the Obama administration?
There’s no evidence that such documents have ever existed. The fact that Darrell Issa keeps demanding them doesn’t prove that they do. This is another point that shouldn’t be all that hard to grasp.
Let me make a really wild guess. Possibly because they involve the secret wiretapping of people suspected to be involved in gunrunning and with Mexican organized crime? Because specific persons would be named and specific instances of electronic tapping would be revealed? Because current investigations could be compromised, and because people might even get killed?
@Greg: Issa has copies of those wire tap requests. That has been all over the news, even CBS. Keep denying that your king is wearing no clothes!
@Randy:If you look at Obama’s leadership traits- blaming others, taking credit for others’ successes, whining in public about how hard his job is, divisiveness etc., he is the antithesis of what is taught in leadership schools.
@Greg: Apparently you do not understand the interactions of our government branches. Issa’s committee has not only every RIGHT to see every single document related to this or any other matter they wish to investigate in connection with the Justice Department, including all of the wire taps and anything else – sealed or unsealed – but the RESPONSIBILITY. The Executive branch does not rule over the Courts and Congress. The three branches of government are co-equal with differing responsibilities. One of the House of Representatives’ specific Constitutional responsibilities is direct oversight of every single program in any branch that we spend a dime one.
Uh huh. That’s spelled out in the Constitution somewhere?
The Executive Branch didn’t quite see things that way under President George W. Bush, nor does it see things quite that way under President Barack Obama.
@another vet: You said:
Even far left loonies are allowed into the USMC.
@Greg:
Are you claiming that Congress has no oversight authority over the Executive branch of our government?
GREG
on 125, it’s not a good excuse, because the DOCUMENTS MIGHT BE GIVE UNDER A SPECIAL SECRECY PROMISE TO KEEP IT CONFIDENTIAL FROM THE PUBLIC. THAT’S ALL,
IT’S NOT LIKE ISSA IS JUST ANYBODY, HE IS A VERY CREDIBLE PERSON REPRESENTING THAT CASE FOR THE CONGRESS,
YOUR EXCUSE HAS NO VALIDITY ON A CASE SO IMPORTANT DRAGGING ALL THIS TIME,
ON DIFFERENT PROMISSES FROM HOLDER TO BRING THE PAPERS ISSA WANT, AND STALLING
ALL THIS TIME. THEY SURE LOOK LIKE HIDING, SOMETHING THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR THEIR
FEAR TO NOT SHOW IT, IT IS MAKING THEM GUILTY OF SOME BAD ACTIONS,
BUT THEY WON’T GET AWAY WITH IT, ISSA won’t let go,
@retire05, #131:
No, I’m saying that Darrell Issa’s committee doesn’t automatically have “every RIGHT to see every single document related to this or any other matter they wish to investigate.” I doubt if any president in U.S. history would have accepted that level of Legislative Branch power.
GREG
HE ASK FOR A SPECIFIC TIME RELATING TO THOSE PAPERS HE HAS THE RIGHT AND WANT TO FINISH THAT INVESTIGATION AS MUCH AS ERIC HOLDER, WHICH IS TRYING TO MAKE A DEAL.
@GREG
What was the body count for Wide Receiver and Gun Runner? How do you explain the emails between Newell SAC ,Phoenix and Kevin O’Reilly NSA, WH, who was suddenly put on state dept. duty in Iraq, discussing how to spin F&F in the Mexican media and that Newell was covertly informing the WH outside of normal channels. Please explain why, if it was all above board, did Holder/DOJ lie to their oversight and have to retract multiple statements made to Congress?Your stats are the same bogus compendium used by H.R.C.,when she committed the U.S. to the U.N. Small Arms Treaty. She was exposed and F&F was contrived to produce the desired outcome. 300 guns were sold,tracked and interdicted before reaching Mexico, under Pres. Bush. F&F saw 2020 guns allowed to pass into Mexico, with perhaps 1000 recovered, with the blood of Brian Terry, Jaime Zapata and at least 250 Mexicans upon them. When two stalwart progressive media members, WaPo and CBS are moved to expose this treacherous, bloody betrayal by Obama/Holder
that betrayal must be so wrong,so evil as to overcome and outweigh partisanship.
@Greggie: You said:
Really?
Do we constantly have to do this, Greggie?
I mean you keep opening mouth and inserting foot so much that one has to wonder if you aren’t trying out for Joe Biden’s job…
Even Wikipedia says you’re wrong:
Fish.
Barrel.
*sigh*
.
.
@ilovebeeswarzone:
Bees Randy got that from Sandy Berger, the Clinton stooge.
anticsrocks
hi,
that was very explicite thank you,
bye
Brian
hi,
do you mean that RANDY WAS JOKING?
I thought he was angry at my comment, which I gave it as a cynical joke on OBAMA
for barging into to stop the questions,
and I reply by teasing RANDY on him doing it by carrying the kukis knife in his socks.
bye
Brian
what if the UN IS implicated in their deal, and they want to keep that from DARRELL ISSA
to discover,
what if some guns went to the brotherhood
for their arab spring via MEXICO OR IRAK
where they sent the other guy,
@anticsrocks:
And ontop of that, Obama can not just simply wave an arm and instantly declare the Executive Priv as it has to be granted by a Federal High Court ruling… and we all know just how much the Courts really love the current White House staff ; )
And it’s so refreshing to see Greg’s pure ignorance on full display about Consitutional duties of the branches.
@ilovebeeswarzone:
@Bees
They flow the other way. Hezbollah has caches in Mexico. In April 2010, Jamal Yousef a member of Hezbollah, was arrested in NYC. That arrest exposed one arms cache in Mexico containing 100 M-16 rifles,100 AR-15 rifles, 2500 grenades and C4 and anti-tank weapons. That particular group of weapons was traced back to Iraq, having been stolen from military stocks. Most of the weapons coming into Mexico originate in South America notably Punta del Oeste, and West Africa, Colombia, Venezuela. Anywhere Cartels have a presence that increasingly dovetails with that of Hezbollah or Iranian covert operations. The attempt on the life of the Saudi Ambassador in D.C. exposed the connections between Iranian/Shia networks in the U.S. and Mexico with Cartels in Mexico and Colombia and drug and arms smugglers in W.Africa. What liberals miss is that clandestinely sending weapons to the domestic enemies of a nominal ally is betrayal of that alliance and undermines the sovereignty of that state. Betrayal of sworn law officers with callous disregard, for their lives and safety, by their leadership is a treacherous, treasonous act and those responsible should be held to account.
@Mr. Irons: I hear ya, and it gets pretty tiresome having to school him all the time; but what’re ya gonna do?
Time and again he says that silence is the same as a supporting opinion, so that leaves us no choice but to speak up.
Brian
very interesting, thank you,
you know when the news came of those who where murdered and had their head cut off,
IT came to mind that this was done by THE MUSLIMS TRADITION,
SO now I can be sure of what I had assumed then.
bye
@anticsrocks, #136:
I’ve noticed that a lot of people around here repeatedly take issue with what they only imagine other people have said. What was posted in #120, #123, #129, and #133 really shouldn’t be all that difficult to understand.
@Greg:
You continue to state that Issa has no right to seal court documents. I find this “mind numbingly stupid” on your part.
Issa is the chairman of a Congressional oversight committee and has the right to request documents in the name of that committee. You also seem to think that once Obama claimed executive privilege, that is absolute. You are wrong, as Richard Nixon learned when he tried to prevent the release of Oval Office tapes that directly affected him. The SCOTUS decision in United States vs. Nixon was quite clear:
“neither the doctrine of separation of powers nor the need for confidentiality of high-level communications, without more, can sustain an absolute, unqualifed Presidential privilege of immunity from judicial process uner all circumstances.”
You see, Greg, a President cannot claim executive privilege to block the investigation of a crime, and multiple crimes were committed during Fast and Furious, including the murder of at least two Americans and hundreds of Mexican citizens, not to mention that an international treaty was violated. That was compounded by Eric Holder’s blatant perjury to a legal Congressional oversight committee with the powers of subpoena, powers that allow the oversight committee to obtain documents that are otherwise sealed by the court.
Funny you have such problems with Issa, and the oversight committee, obtaining court documents and still support Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. who had absolutely no problem with allowing his hachet man, David Axelrod, to go after the sealed court records of his opponent, records that made a nasty divorce public even when children were involved. You can’t have it both ways, Greg; either you support the free access to court documents, or you hold disgust for the man who did not respect that practice of sealed documents when it came to his own Illinois senatorial election. So which is it?
@retire05, #146:
I haven’t suggested that the President has an absolute, unqualified privilege of immunity from judicial process under all circumstances. I didn’t state that–or even imply that–anywhere. Rather, I’ve repeatedly denied someone else’s assertion that Darrell Issa has an absolute, unqualified privilege of access to any damn thing he pleases.
He doesn’t. Nothing grants him that level of power over the Executive Branch. The Constitution doesn’t and the Supreme Court hasn’t. If it did, the Executive Branch would be unable to function effectively.
@Greg: Well, according to the constitutional lawyers, ISSA does. Brooks said that Obama using executive privledge was stupid. I guess if you agree with Obama’s action, then that makes you stupid too?
Issa: No evidence so far that White House officials were involved in gun operation cover-up
Perhaps Darrell Issa and John Boehner should compare notes before Boehner makes any further public accusations concerning the White House.
GREG
IT MIGHT BE THAT they both will sink themselves to refuse to give the papers which ISSA REQUEST VERY MANY TIMES,
because that thing will haunt them longer than they expected,
I bet that ISSA HAS A CARD UNDER HIS SLEEVES, WHICH OBAMA AND HOLDER DON’T,
THE POWER OF CONGRESS THAT OBAMA TRIED SO HARD TO PAINT AS THE ONE RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS FAILURE, NOW THEY ARE IN FRONT OF THE AMERICANS TELLING ABOUT OBAMA AND HOLDER,
THE BALL HAS CHANGE CAMP AND THE MIGHTY CONGRESS OWN IT ,
THEY LET OBAMA GET AWAY TOO LONG, AND THEY ARE AWAKE NOW,
WATCH THE NEXT CHAPTER COMING.
@Greg: For once you are right. Glad you are watching FOX news! The reason Issa is persuing this is Holder lied under oath. That causes distrust. Distrust means that likely the operation did not work as Holder testified. That is why Issa is seeking specific documents. Holder lied!