He’s directly involved [Reader Post]

@Greg:

What was retracted was the AG’s inaccurate statement that Fast and Furious had begun during the Bush administration.

Not quite

1.

“An attorney general who I suppose you would hold in higher regard was briefed on these kinds of tactics in an operation called Wide Receiver and did nothing to stop them — nothing,” Holder told Texas Republican Sen. John Cornyn during that hearing. “Three hundred guns, at least, walked in that instance.”

After the hearing, Grassley wrote to Holder asking him to provide evidence to back up his blaming Mukasey.

Instead of being able to facilitate evidence, though, according to Iowa Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley’s office, Holder and the DOJ have now retracted that statement.

2.

The first time Holder’s DOJ withdrew a statement to congress because of its inaccuracy was when now-former Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich wrote to Sen. Grassley on Feb. 4, 2011, telling him that the DOJ and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives never allowed guns to walk. It wasn’t until several months later that Holder withdrew that false statement.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/06/20/another-retraction-holder-withdraws-claim-that-bushs-attorney-general-knew-about-gunwalking/#ixzz1yQeRG7PE

“Got his facts wrong” is a euphemism for “stinking liar”

@Greg: You said:

I think you must be confusing Obama with Mitt Romney. For almost everything Romney now says, you can find something he has said or done in the past that directly contradicts it.

Really?

Really??

You REALLY want to go there? Have you any idea how much video there is out there of your personal messiah, Obama contradicting himself?

Pick a topic and a policy decision by Obama and you can dig up contradicting video of him because one thing is constant with this narcissist, he not only thinks he’s the smartest man in the room, he never shuts up about it.

* GITMO
* Executive Privilege
* His latest amnesty debacle
* “Shovel ready jobs”
* $4 trillion of debt under Bush’s 8 years = unpatriotic/$5, nearly $6 trillion under Obama’s 4 years = Bush’s fault

I could go on and on………..

@Brian:

Correction: Shiela Jackson Lee’s district IS a third world banana republic. That is why Anita Moncreif has taken her fight to the streets of SJL’s district.

Quoting Dick Morris is about as valid as invoking Chris Mathews.

Anticsrocks To me Gunrunner and Fast and Furious were hatched and run by ATF agents that had the brains and abilities of Inspectors Dreyfuss and Clouseau. Idiots
Holder says he stopped F and F when he learned of it. If he’s lying he should go. Obama seems to believe in and is defending his friend. So far

Hankster How are you? Morris is a hired gun who has always worked for the highest bidder. With Repubs. before Clinton hired him to salvage his image. Personal animosity developed which is why he strongly supported BHO over HRC.

Two American citizens are dead, murdered by Mexican drug scum aided by weapons purchased through the Fast and Furious operation, an operation that now has been proven beyond a fact to have been known by about by the very lying sacks of … that denied knowledge of it.

Now we have Executive cover-up! Has anyone seen the similarities between Nixon and Obama. Lie, cover up, do anything to cover their sorry behinds. Many people are going to point this out. but remember, the cover ups are where the similarities end! Why would I say that? Because NO ONE WAS MURDERED as result of the Watergate fiasco. That was just stupidity. This is cold blooded murder and as such one could make the argument that this President and his sad sack Attorney General should be charged as accomplices to the murder of Brian Terry and Juan Zapata!

@Richard Wheeler: I’ve been following this closely for over a year now. The investigation started at BATF, but evidence and testimony quickly included DEA, NSA, FBI and ultimately DOJ in the mix. The documents Issa has so far show there was operational control of Fast and Furious from the upper levels of DOJ that spread out to orders delivered to multiple agencies to allow the transfer of these weapons. They show the operation was hatched and approved within DOJ or even higher , not BATF. BATF was to be the fall guy if anything went bad. The documents Issa is asking for under subpoena follow that paper trail deep into DOJ. These are the documents Holder is withholding.

@Richard Wheeler: You said:

To me Gunrunner and Fast and Furious were hatched and run by ATF agents that had the brains and abilities of Inspectors Dreyfuss and Clouseau. Idiots

Funny how you always manage to avoid answering my questions, Rich. Your attempt to deflect my questions by speculating who “hatched” Fast and Furious is thin; and I’m being generous.

Let me try again:

So you are okay with Holder’s DOJ supplying guns to Mexican Drug Cartels.

You’re okay with Federal Agents dying at the hands of the Drug Cartels with weapons supplied by Holder’s DOJ?

I am particularly interested in your answer to my second question. As long as it is the Democrats doing it, you’re okay with Federal Agents dying at the hands of Mexican Drug runners with weapons supplied by Holder’s DOJ?

Wow, just…wow. Talk about being partisan.

Are you not intellectually honest enough to cry foul, especially when law enforcement lives have been lost?
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Anticsrocks As usual you haven’t read my answers.Why is that the case?
If Holder’s lying he should be ousted. Simple
I’ll repeat the ATF’S BIN SCREWIN THE POOCH ON THIS FIASCO FOR OVER 6 YEARS.IDIOTS

@anticsrocks, #67:

Just because Congressman Issa is a Republican, you automatically assign an ulterior motive to his investigation.

Of course there’s an ulterior motive to Issa’s investigation. It’s political. While I don’t believe the average republican lacks the intelligence to figure that out, I might be wrong on that point. Analytical skills and a capacity for independent thought seem to be on the decline of late.

@retire05
I was trying to be polite. After she asked for the Mars rover to get that flag, I knew she was “tetched.”
Anyone like LEE and Elijah Cummings, who defend the multiple episodic law breaking of the Obama regime need to be rooted out, just like their leadership. Mr. Holder’s involvement in F&F, the Credit Suisse mess, hobbling Florida’s AG efforts to purge voter rolls, blocking Texas and S.Carlina’s voter I.D. measures and derailing Arizona’s state immigration efforts mark him as a politically motivated hack when all the while complaining that any action against him is a witch hunt. Any actions taken by Holder in the aftermath of F&F were never about reversing a failed operation, they were nothing but self serving damage control.

@Aqua: In any failing orgnization, the rats start leaving the ship long before most of us know the ship is sinking. Obama needed to order fleets of buses to thow people under as his administration proceeded. Issa and Grassly are talking with whistle blowers. That is evident from the wire tap applications they have seen. As Obama’s popularity lowers, more and more whistle blowers will appear and more information will be published.

I really have difficulty in giving Obama credit for any deep thought or any real organizational skills. I think he used the Chicago thugs to get elected over the years and then appointed them to run this administration as they saw fit. I think they write his speeches and provide him with the ideas he barely can discuss off the teleprompter.

I believe that the thugs he hired have covered themselves by having Obama on record as auhorizing F & F as well as many other operations that have not come to light. This would include preventing states from validating the voter roles. When the most trusting of us can see from Holder’s testimony that he is lying and hiding something. He has relesed less than 10% of the requested documents. Why if there were no issues would he not release all of the documents?

@Aqua, #73:

Why hasn’t Holder identified the person responsible for running the operation?

Kenneth E. Melson was the head of ATF during Fast and Furious. Bill Newell was head of ATF field operations in Phoenix during both Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious. I see no good reason to assume that the operation was somehow being remotely controlled from Eric Holder’s office or from some back room in the Obama White House, and then expect them to produce documents proving otherwise.

@Richard Wheeler:
Ummm no. While it was hardly perfect under Bush, the obama crew made it 10 times worse. Apparently so they could ratchet up more gun control.

The difference is that under Bush, they were actually trying to catch gunrunners. They were also working with Mexican authorities to do so on the same operation.
Holder and co? None of the above. There is no equating the two. I think you know that.

@Greg: You said:

Analytical skills and a capacity for independent thought seem to be on the decline of late.

Looking in the mirror, are we?

John Boehner:

“The American people deserve the truth, and the administration has an obligation to turn over the relevant documents right now. The decision to invoke executive privilege is an admission that White House officials were involved in decisions that misled the Congress and have covered up the truth.“

Shall we apply that same logic to the 6 times George W. Bush claimed executive privilege to withhold information from Congressional investigators? He’d done so for the first time before his first year in office was even out.

Boehner is full of it. Issa is full of it. Every republican climbing on board Issa’s fully loaded manure wagon is full of it.

H.R. Both ATF operations thought they could catch bad guys by selling guns to their shills and tracking them to their bosses. Both operations badly flawed. 2nd Amendment overthrow had nothing to do with ATF “Clouseaus” run amuck.
Issa is a political hack and hatchet man. If Holder is lying on ANYTHING substantive he should go.

@Hard Right, #83:

You haven’t actually provided evidence of anything, other than that you’ve been attentive to right wing radio, internet, and television spin.

My best guess is that bad plans were laid at the ATF level, that minimal negative details were fed higher up the chain of command, that there was little high level DOJ or White House involvement, and that the only thing the DOJ and White House now wish to keep private are their internal deliberations concerning subsequent political damage control once the whole program went wrong. Plus they don’t want to give Issa any other material to spin out damaging theories from. They love to connect unrelated dots into elaborate confabulations that are easy for wingnuts to believe but difficult or impossible for more logical people to totally disprove.

How odd that federal prosecutors, who serve at the President’s pleasure, got fired and it was partisan. Gee.

If you’re too dim to understand how Obama incorrectly invoked executive privilege in this case, then anyone here at FA explaining it to you would be a waste of bandwith.

Time for your nap, Greggie…
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@Richard Wheeler:

Why to go to insert your head into Greg’s exit chute.

This man, Holder, is facing challenge from even Congressional Democrats. The few Democrats who defended Holder are now being berated by their own party. Defending Holder now will cost the Democrats exteremely in the Elections, considering that American Blood was spilt by a botched operation that the DOJ willingly admitted was designed to allow justification to rescend the Second Amendment’s status to Legal Citizens.

You facists are dirty liars to call modern Conservatives wingnuts. We’d be glady to physically defend your right to bash us and to live the life you want to live, but do not be surprised when your side finds your usefulness at an end as a pawn of the agenda and chooses to discard you from the system you so willingly desire and do not expect us to comply with your style of life. Lenin’s supporters found themselves either in gulags or in graves, Mao’s blind followers were mostly butchered as examples for failing to comply with Big Government demands. Your side wants control over the individual’s life and choices down to what to eat and what to drink, we “wingnuts” do not want Government to control us. Bloody fool.

@Richard Wheeler: You are again deliberately ignoring importatnt facts in order to justify your claims that it is no big deal.
You see, under Bush even when they used tracking devices to track the arms, and coordinated with the Mexican authorities, it was still a cluster*uck.
Holder and co. used no tracking devices, did not tell the Mexican authorities
, and deliberately let smugglers go. Add in the memo where they said this would be great to justify firearms restrictions, and there is your motivation.
Even CBS thinks it is the likely reason and they are hardly a “wingnut” mouthpiece.

Greg, holder knew about it and has lied to congress claiming he didn’t. That has been proven.
Again, you post nothing to support your claims. What a shock.

@mmercier, #89:

Those hundreds of dead brown people in Mexico at the end of these firearms are obviously of no consequence.

Obviously they’re of little real consequence to the NRA–an organization that denies the relevance of 68,000 illegal guns traced back to U.S. sources, while howling about 1,700 or so lost during the botched Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious programs. Nor are they of much real consequence to the far right in general, except to the extent that referencing them can be useful for scoring points in a discussion such as this. Shift the topic to 15-year old Carlos Lamadrid, or to how we should be dealing with undocumented aliens inside the United States, and watch how quickly the crocodile tears evaporate.

Maybe the right should stop throwing down that particular card. It only invites closer scrutiny of the inconsistencies between what they say and what they do.