The Martin/Zimmerman timeline [Reader Post]

Humm… so you “thought it through”, eh drj? Not much further along than last week, I see. Except, perhaps, you’ve outdone yourself on emulating a pretzel. I have to say, drj, your obsession with keeping this story hyped day after day is just as puzzling as the case itself.

I’ve pretty much stayed away from all things FA lately, most especially this particular subject. But in the interest of providing a ying to your yang – you know, the fair and balanced bit – I’ll put my thoughts here. I have no desires to do a post because I have no desire to keep fanning the flames of BS that is flying from both sides of the political spectrum on this. All I’ve wanted to see is the investigation better scrutinized because I’m worried that the fed’s promise to interfere with states’ SYG laws is the inevitable. And as a RKBA advocate, I don’t see that as good. Therein lies the real story… not a perpetual push to prove Zimmerman is innocent beyond all doubt.

But since you’ve decided to expand on last week, I’m going to throw in my two cents worth here, then again exit the personal ugliness that will ensue for doing so. Life’s too short to wage war over this when my focus is on far larger issues.

I believe your problem is that you are constructing it to fit Zimmerman’s story, and assume there are no obvious holes there. If you believe he is telling the truth, you’re going to find a way to make it plausible.

That ain’t the way it works, Drj. You cannot assume an analytic approach when you begin with a conclusion, then arrange the puzzle pieces to fit your conclusion.

Let’s stick to what we know instead, so allow me to point out a few flaws with your carefully constructed puzzle.

So why didn’t he? Why didn’t Martin call 911 and say he was being followed instead of calling his girlfriend?

Cell phone call logs indicate that the girlfriend called Martin, not the other way around. That phone call lasted at least four minutes, no additional seconds above that were provided in the news outlets, but that doesn’t mean it couldn’t have been four minutes, ten seconds, etc. We only know at least four full minutes until more detailed call logs are released to the public.

As to why did he not call 911? You know, I’m not under the impression that young male teens, most especially young black male teens, have the penchant to dial 911 easily. I don’t think there is any question that there is an inherent distrust of LE by that age group, and in particular by minorities.

So I find your suggestion he call 911 an amusing indication that you may be out of touch here, guy.

SYG does not apply here, nor is it needed.

This is precisely what I’ve been arguing, and excoriated for, since the beginning. It is also why the state investigation is reopened… but only after being forced via public outcry.

The purpose of that state investigation is to determine if the SYG law was correctly applied in the Zimmerman case, allowing him to walk free without charges. If it’s not, then manslaughter charges could, and should, be applied to investigate as to whether there was unnecessary force (i.e. shooting death) used in repelling any suggested attack by Martin.

60 seconds of fighting, and Zimmerman’s non life threatening injuries during that short duration, indicate that Zimmerman seemed to be pretty quick on the trigger for defense.

And we still do not know who began the physical confrontation. We only have Zimmerman’s account, and dead teens can’t speak for themselves.

Martin had nothing to fear until he tried to take the gun. If Martin was in fear, why call his girlfriend and not 911?

You’ve left the realm of fact and now incorporate hearsay. We have no official statement of Zimmerman’s account, and only the brother states there as a fight for the gun. But let’s play your game, shall we?

1: Martin is doing nothing illegal when spotted by Zimmerman

2: With your account, Martin needs to now walk right past Zimmerman, on the phone with 911. He doesn’t mention dodging between homes, cutting thru yards. There’s only so many ways that Martin can “run”/walk fast away from Zimmerman. He has limited time with any path before he meets up with the grim reaper.

This looks even worse for Zimmerman. Why, if Martin walked right past him, did he not roll down the window, ID himself as a neighborhood watch person, and ask him politely if he lived in the neighborhood?

He did not… Instead, view this from the opposite perspective. After Martin passes – presumably on the phone with his girlfriend, worried about Zimmerman’s scrutiny – that same guy now climbs out of a car and starts following him on foot.

Threatening or intimidating much? To most of us – me as a female, or perhaps a black youth – when we’re doing nothing wrong and that person is not a cop, hang yeah that’s threatening activity.

BTW, we don’t know if Martin was actually “running”. His girlfriend says he refused, but would “walk fast”. Zimmerman most definitely wasn’t running. The movement on the 911 tape supports a fast stride, but no heavier breathing, no sound of heavier footsteps on pavement, and fast cloth movement indicating running. The benefits of years of recording/cutting foley sound for film and TV…

For whatever path that Martin took, from the time Zimmerman noted in the 911 call that he moved faster away, to the time of his death was about three minutes.

Actually, as Neighborhood Watch, he does, as long as it’s “non-contact surveillance.” But then he stopped when asked to do so. The audio indicates it.

Ohhhh… a twofer here. How fun. To the first sentence… didn’t you, yourself, spend oodles of threads and posts, telling us that Zimmerman was only on a “personal errand”?

Like Aye says… pick a horse and ride it.

Of course, that’s only one of Zimmerman’s questionable statements in his story. The direct route from the Super Target, north of the complex on Rinehart and Ball Rds, to his home on Retreat View Circle at the SW part of the complex does not include a jaunt down Twin Trees Lane where he was parked. In fact, Twin Trees Lane is no direct route to his home from either gate.

So if Zimmerman were on a “personal errand”, he also decided to deviate and incorporate one of his “nightly patrols”, as his neighbors say that he does. So why should he make an issue of being on a “personal errand” to the police?

Because on “patrol”, he’s in violation of the neighborhood watch guidelines that do not sanction any action save alerting the police, and most importantly, no armed patrols.

But then, Zimmerman, studying criminal justice and wanting to be LE, knows that… which is why he likely decided to say he was on a “personal errand”. His location in the complex proves that statement to be shaky alone.

Which brings me to the second sentence, and the largest flaw in your Aesop’s fable… and you stated this more than one between your post and comments:

Zimmerman begins chase, but then stands down when it was requested he do so and he apparently loses sight of Martin.

This is where Zimmerman’s story… and your analysis… falls apart. It’s really not rocket science to prove this isn’t even close to true.

As I said, we do not know the actual path of Martin’s movements. Any information on that is solely confined to Zimmerman’s account alone. But we do know where Zimmerman could be at the moment he hung up the phone with the 911 dispatcher.

Allow me to illustrate visually.

Fact… the average fitness walker does a mile in 12-15 minutes. If we take the fastest pace, that’s 5.8 feet per second.

Fact… Zimmerman moved away from his car, in some direction, for 33 seconds. Assuming the fastest stride, that’s about 165 feet in any direction.

Below, the radius of 165′ from the SUV’s approximate location.

At the outer edges of that circle is where Zimmerman would be when he stopped his movement – going one direction only – and finished his conversation with the dispatcher. If he had turned around when the dispatcher asked him to, he would be right back at his SUV. So for debate purposes, let’s assume Zimmerman took a one way trip, 33 seconds away from his vehicle.

One of those areas, to the east, would be the site of the death.

At the point that Zimmerman hangs up with 911, Martin was still on his phone call with his girlfriend for another minute afterwards.

If Zimmerman were returning to his car, “as requested” (according to you), he could have made it back to the SUV two times over before the altercation began…. from anywhere on that radius rim.

Therefore, Zimmerman did not return to his car after hanging up.

And the more important question that has everything to do with the truth revolves around just where did Zimmerman go in that minute before meeting up with Martin?

And BTW, your portrayal that it was about 30 seconds before the altercation is an incorrect conclusion. What we do know is that Zimmerman 911 call was 4’12” long from moment he called. According to call logs, the girlfriend’s call to Martin was at least 4 minutes long. Since we are not privy to the actual logs/billing, we do not know how many seconds longer than four minutes it may be.

Considering that Zimmerman documented Martin, putting his hand in his waistband at 1’06” into his 911 call, it might be concluded that Martin was actually answering his phone…. Which fits with the cell call log records.

Advancing each of the calls, without seconds, at least four minutes is a more accurate depiction of time than your “30 seconds” estimate in your original post. That’s a luxury you opt to abuse – applying seconds to Zimmerman’s call, and none to Martin’s – without justification to again support a conclusion you are trying to prove as fact.

If Zimmerman continued to follow, stalk, hunt, chase… take your pick for whatever suits your particular PC attitude… did he go further south towards Brandy Green’s house from that spot, and then turn around to come back?

Did he just stand there for a minute?

If Martin were laying in wait, as you suggest, what was the likelihood that he’d talk to his girlfriend for another minute while Zimmerman just stood there, then attack? And, in fact, while you want to put the onus on Martin not running home (altho I wouldn’t since I wouldn’t want a loon, following me, to know where I live…), could not Zimmerman’s immediate retreat to his SUV after hanging up with 911 also prevented any confrontation?

Somehow, in the minute when Zimmerman chose NOT to return to his SUV, he and Martin came face to face in that death site location… a place that Zimmerman *might* have been standing when he hung up with 911 a minute earlier.

When they do come meet, is Zimmerman’s jacket open so that Martin can see his gun? After all, aren’t you, and Zimmerman’s brother, now saying they fought over the gun? Obviously what you are now conceding is that Martin is, indeed, aware that Zimmerman is packing.

Threatening and intimidating much? First the guy has been tailing/tracking him for 5 minutes when he’s doing nothing wrong. He has no idea who he is. And now, face to face with him, he sees that guy is armed. If Martin shoved Zimmerman first, was it because he saw he was armed?

In that case, who feels more threatened? Who is more entitled to SYG defense in that moment? Especially since Martin had apparently attempted to avoid Zimmerman in that time.

Did Zimmerman, after spending five minutes tracking Martin’s whereabouts… of which at least a minimal of four of them Martin was aware of… identify himself as a neighborhood watch person? Or does Martin just think he’s some armed and crazy loon, stalking him? Not exactly out of the realm of possibilities.

Every bit of this has to do with who felt justified in “defending” themselves in this event.

And what’s with Zimmerman’s supposed story that he was attacked from behind? Are most “thugs”, as so many of you portray Martin, generally in the habit of plotting a fight and launching an attack while on their cell phone with their girlfriends? Is it the optimum way to win a fight you start to do so while multitasking fighting with cell phone chit chat?

Dunno… sounds pretty spontaneous to me.

In fact, if Martin’s hiding at the death site, waiting to attack Zimmerman, why wait for a full minute as Zimmerman stands there, chatting up the gal pal, before doing so? And if he’s hiding close enough, can’t Zimmerman hear him talking on the cell,or is he whispering? There’s no indication from the girl’s media accounts that Martin was hiding, or whispering, plotting an attack.

All of these questions are what an investigation should address. And an investigation there should be because Zimmerman’s story has holes. This has been the contention of the more reasonable minds. Whether the State Attorney’s office or the Sanford police chose to conclude this investigation early using SYG is less relevant than the fact that it was, indeed, prematurely ended.

And it’s the perfect right of the family to demand closer scrutiny.

For the record, SYG has been invoked 140 times since the law was enacted. There are eleven cases that might bear *some* similarity to the Zimmerman/Martin case, but none of them involves pursuit of a guy doing nothing while walking down the road. There’s road rage, arguments out of control, domestic violence, robbery, vehicle theft and harassment in the home. But only Zimmerman/Martin has one person, pursing another who is not engaged in an illegal act.

Again I will say, I find the conservative resistance for investigative oversight to be baffling. And I find it even more baffling that people jump thru so many hoops to declare Zimmerman’s story as unquestionably true when there is enough that does not jive to warrant a closer look.