Let’s look at the Martin/Zimmerman timeline.
First we have to audio clip that Mata provided for us.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw[/youtube]
And the transcript is here
The official audio can be downloaded here.
To begin with, Zimmerman is in his vehicle (1) as he speaks with the dispatcher. At 0:56 of the clip
“That’s the clubhouse, do you know what the- he’s near the clubhouse right now?”
“Yeah, now he’s coming towards me.”
It does sound as though Martin (2) is walking in a direction away from the clubhouse, toward Zimmerman. Zimmerman says Martin is near the clubhouse, but Zimmerman does not say that he is near the clubhouse. The clubhouse is near the main entrance on Oregon St.
Zimmerman expressed concern that Martin might be carrying something as he approaches:
“He has his hands in his waistband. He is a black male. Something’s wrong with him. Yep. He’s coming to check me out. He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. Send officers over here.”
Zimmerman begins to give instructions as to his location when Martin begins to run and Zimmerman exclaims
“Shit, he’s running.”
At 2:10 of the audio recording, the vehicle door can be heard to open and at 2:14 it closes. By this time Martin has passed from near the clubhouse toward the area between the 13 and 28 buildings. Zimmerman begins to chase and you can hear the rustle of his clothing and his breathing at 2:19. The dispatcher ask if he is chasing Martin and Zimmerman acknowledges that he is. At 2:26 the dispatcher says:
“OK, we don’t need you to do that.”
Zimmerman says “OK” and the rustling ends at 2:42.
At 2:38 Zimmerman says “He ran” and apparently lost sight of Martin. Martin apparently escaped.
Zimmerman remains on the phone with the dispatcher until at least 4:12. During that time he describes his location and directs the dispatcher to the location of his parked car.
Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, that’s my truck…[unintelligible]
Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
Zimmerman: I don’t know, it’s a cut through so I don’t know the address.
That puts Zimmerman’s vehicle on Twin Trees Lane. According to one report, near the bend. Martin apparently fled in between the 28 and 12 buildings toward his father’s girlfriend’s place, located near the back entrance of Twin Lakes. It is the direction Zimmerman described.
Dispatcher: “He’s running? Which way is he running?”
Zimmerman: “Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.”
Zimmerman’s phone call was received at 7:11:12. At 2:42 on the audio, Zimmerman stopped running and lost sight of Martin. That puts it at 7:13:54 or so. Zimmerman continues to speak to the dispatcher until at least 4:12 of the audio, or 7:15:24. It’s reported that the phone call to Brandy Green ended at 7:16. The fight and shooting took place between then and when the police arrived at 7:17.
This is the point the gaps exist.
Zimmerman is reportedly parked on Twin Trees Lane. He says Martin is coming toward him, and then he says Martin runs. Zimmerman says that Martin runs “towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.”(3) That is SE of Zimmerman’s position and it is in the direction of the home of Martin’s girlfriend. (4) Zimmerman begins chase, but then stands down when it was requested he do so and he apparently loses sight of Martin. The question is, which way did Martin run? If he ran down Twin Trees avoiding Zimmerman (5), Zimmerman could keep him in sight for some time. That would put Martin some distance from where the altercation occurred- in between 1321 and 2821, as described in the police report. (6) Martin was initially placed near the clubhouse. If he reversed course, say to head up to Retreat Circle (7), then Zimmerman would not have described him running toward the back entrance on South Oregon. If Martin ran toward the area in between buildings 28 and 12 passing near Zimmerman’s car and then turning the corner, Zimmerman would lose sight of him quickly.
This is all of significance because there was less than a minute in between the time Zimmerman ended the call to the police and the beginning of the altercation as the phone call from Martin to Green is said to have ended at 7:16 and Zimmerman was speaking to the dispatcher until 7:15:24. That’s about 30 seconds for Martin and Zimmerman to come together.
Zimmerman had no idea to where Martin was headed. Zimmerman did not catch Martin while Zimmerman was on the phone and Martin had a head start even if he only “walked fast” he still could outpace Zimmerman. Yet somehow they could not have been farther apart than about 30 seconds closure.
Then we come to some other questions. If Zimmerman was “hunting down” Martin as some have opined, why did he not simply shoot Martin upon encountering him? Why would Zimmerman get so close to Martin that Martin could punch Zimmerman in the face and knock him down if his intention was to kill Martin? (BTW, ABC News has had an epiphany. It has decided that George Zimmerman had injuries after all) Would a person bent on murder allow himself to be assaulted and still expect that he could reach and fire his gun? If Zimmerman was brandishing a gun what could possess Martin to attack him? No reasonable person is going to charge someone aiming a gun at one. Zimmerman agreed to meet with the police as they arrived. Why would he agree to meet them and then chase after Martin to kill him? Why would someone bent on murder hold Martin at gunpoint while he screamed for 40 seconds? Because he wanted witnesses to the murder? Why didn’t Zimmerman run if murder was the goal?
None of this makes any sense.
Now let’s consider what probably happened. Back to the NY Times
Soon, callers to 911 were describing the presence of police officers, and the beams of flashlights gliding over a section of grass a few dozen yards from Trayvon’s destination, where a boy inside was waiting for Skittles.
A few dozen yards. A few is about 3. Three dozen yards. 36-40 yards. 120 feet. George Zimmerman loses sight of Trayvon Martin at 2:38 of the call, or about 7:13:50. Martin has until 7:16 to cover the “few dozen yards” to make it to the safety of Brandy Green’s residence. Zimmerman remains on the phone until 7:15:24. Martin’s girlfriend said the phone call went “dead” at 7:16, but Martin and Zimmerman were already exchanging words. According to Martin’s girlfriend, the conversation was initiated by Martin. The window between the end of Zimmerman’s call to the SPD and the meeting is brief. Really brief.
Martin had over two minutes to reach Green residence. Why didn’t he go there? This suggests strongly that Martin did not go to the Green residence, but instead hid somewhere, waiting for Zimmerman, and then confronted Zimmerman. Martin spoke first to Zimmerman, not the other way around. I think Martin approached Zimmerman’s car from the direction of the clubhouse, passed the car and then bolted. Martin then rounded the corner and hid. Zimmerman pursued until being asked to stop but lost Martin. As Zimmerman turned to head back to his car, Martin came out of hiding and confronted Zimmerman. The rest is history.
DrJohn has been a health care professional for more than 30 years. In addition to clinical practice he has done extensive research and has published widely with over 70 original articles and abstracts in the peer-reviewed literature. DrJohn is well known in his field and has lectured on every continent except for Antarctica. He has been married to the same wonderful lady for over 30 years and has three kids- two sons, both of whom are attorneys and one daughter on her way into the field of education.
DrJohn was brought up with the concept that one can do well if one is prepared to work hard but nothing in life is guaranteed.
Except for liberals being foolish.
Wicked, evil DrJohn.
Who do you think you are, confusing us with facts?
The facts don’t matter.
What matters is that we heart Trayvon.
And we despise Zimmerman (secret Zionist).
The case is a sad commentary on the inability of the Yesterday Media to actually report on WWWWW, which is what I was taught, years ago, was the function of journalism.
Journalism now has nothing to do with facts. Journalism now is the effort to shape the story, in order to fit a template. And the template is that Zippy is the wave of the future. Don’t forget it.
I am not saying Zimmerman is guilty of murder and I sure as hell don’t stand with Jesse Jackass and Al Simpleton, but these two statements are salient:
“Zimmerman begins to chase …”
“Martin apparently escaped.”
Zimmerman has no right to “chase” a free citizen, unless the kid is running off with his baby or brandishing a knife and lunging towards someone.
A free citizen has every right to “escape” when being chased by a stranger. A free citizen also has the right to turn around a deliver a beatdown to his pursuer.
I am a strong gun rights advocate as well as a firm believer in our natural rights to life, liberty and property. It appears Zimmerman got overzealous when performing the legitimate activity of doing neighborhood watch duty. His actions have harmed the cause of self-defense and gun rights.
@Silverfiddle:
Really? Is that so? A local watchman, a free citizen, has no “right” to chase a suspicious character in a neighborhood that has experience over 200 hundred break-ins and burglaries?
A local watchman, a free citizen, has no “right” …
Hmmm, one might think it could be unwise to chase a suspicious character, but where does this “no right to “chase”” come from? Please tell.
.
@Silverfiddle:
Actually a free citizen has no such right. The “deliver a beatdown” part would most likely be a felony.
@Silverfiddle:
Actually, as Neighborhood Watch, he does, as long as it’s “non-contact surveillance.” But then he stopped when asked to do so. The audio indicates it.
@Silverfiddle:
So why didn’t he? Why didn’t Martin call 911 and say he was being followed instead of calling his girlfriend?
@Mike O’Malley:
Familiar at all with “Stand Your Ground” or “Line in the Sand” or “No Duty to Retreat” laws? No?
Didn’t think so.
I’ve come to the conclusion—after years of blogging—that concentrating on entertaining stories like this one (where we may never know the truth) serve as a distraction form the real issues in this country.
“Familiar at all with “Stand Your Ground” or “Line in the Sand” or “No Duty to Retreat” laws? No?”
What is the applicability of any of these concepts to Dr John’s scenario ? Any evidence that Zimmerman’s “chasing” of Martin resulted in a confrontation, initiated by Zimmerman, that required Martin to invoke any of these? I believe that the application of any of these requires a credible belief of greivous physical harm.
Being followed or surveilled doesn’t justify a “beatdown.”
@The Strategic MC: SYG does not apply here, nor is it needed.
@Liberal1 (objectivity): Not to worry. We’ll get back to Obama being a threat to this republic soon.
In the text scenario, the question is raised “Why did Martin run?”
No one knows why Martin ran. They just have Zimmerman’s account of Martin’s activity. First we have to fill in some blanks of that night. Zimmerman tells the 911 dispatcher he has spotted an individual who is acting suspiciously (just walking around, looking at residences, etc.) Upon the dispatcher’s request to describe Martin, Zimmerman says he has on a dark shirt, pants that might be blue jeans and light/white shoes. He also points out that Martin has something in his hands. He doesn’t know what it is… he also points out Martin has his hand in the area of the front of his waist. The dispatcher asks if Martin is white or black and Zimmerman tells him Martin looks like he is black. Further in his converstion, Zimmerman voluntarialy reiterates Martin is black.
Analyze that part of Zimmerman’s conversation with the dispatcher. He says Martin is acting suspiciously… walking along looking at the residences. That can indicate Zimmerman suspected Martin of casing the residences. It can also indicate that Martin is walking through a maze of streets casually looking back and forth like many pedestrians do. Most pedestrians do observe things while walking to their destinations.
It is important and seldom pointed out that Martin noticed a STRANGER following him. Any individual who notices a stranger is following them tense up and wonder if the follower intends to do them harm. Surely, Martin began to fear Zimmerman. Martin had no clue that Zimmerman was a volunteer block watcher. On the other side of the coin, Zimmerman did not know that Martin was temporarily living at the Twin Lakes Community with his father’s girlfriend. So, now we have two people who have no idea of who each other are. Martin is struck with fear. Zimmerman thinks Martin could be part of recent break-ins in the Community and calls 911. Both Zimmerman and Martin are distrustful of each other. It sounds as if both Martin and Zimmerman acted on their mistaken assumptions. But where Zimmerman’s assumptions were wrong, Martin’s life was ended. Black teens are within their rights to fear mixed white strangers mysteriously following them. That was evidenced by Martin calling his girlfriend on his cell phone to tell her about it. Why did Martin run? Martin ran because he feared for his life. Where Zimmerman’s assumptions were wrong, Martin’s assumptions were dead right.
The point that I was, perhaps inarticulately, trying to make.
@c. lindy:
Martin had nothing to fear until he tried to take the gun. If Martin was in fear, why call his girlfriend and not 911?
“Mixed white strangers”
Zimmerman does not look like a “mixed white.” He looks Hispanic. When are getting off that sad meme?
@c. lindy:
He was clarifying once he was certain. He didn’t bring it up at all at first.
@drjohn:
Then why, pray tell, was SYG used as the basis for not charging Zimmerman?
@Aye: Next post, Aye. It was not specifically used. It was part of the overall law.
@drjohn:
Please cite a credible source that says Martin tried to take Zimmerman’s gun.
@c. lindy: Is it natural to slowly walk around in the rain looking at houses without rain gear unless you are Gene Kelly? I do not think so!
These blog stories are not just distractions from obama destroying the republic. They serve as a palate cleansing from the rancid taste obama’s regine stuffs down our throats each and every day.
@drjohn:
Baloney.
The section of the SYG law which establishes immunity from prosecution was directly cited as the reason Zimmerman was not arrested:
You should know this. You cited the press release yourself.
There’s no need to wait for the “next post”.
You should be willing and able to defend your contention right here, right now.
@Aye:
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics/florida%E2%80%99s-self-defense-laws
Like I said- the whole thing was cited.
@c. lindy:
Now we have a problem. I have a feeling that no one is going to be credible enough. Yet the police report says the gun was fired and the magazine was still full.
@drjohn: And Kopel concludes:
Ibid.
@Aye:
I am quite familiar with stand your ground laws, and have read the Florida statute. Nowhere does it authorize someone to attack someone and “beat them down.” Martin had no duty to retreat, but he had no right to attack.
I will not comment on who had the right to do what. There are entirely too many shades of grey there.
However, I want to ask a question – if Martin had gone out to buy a bag of skittles for his friend where did he purchase it? I did a quick look for a store where the average Joe could walk in and make such a purchase and didn’t see one. There was a SAMs club nearby but i wouldn’t go there to buy a bag of Skittles for a friend – the large jumbo economy size isa little much.
The next question I want to ask was why did his father drive the two of them up from Miami to visit the father’s girl friend? The round trip drive represents four hours.
Oh, that’s right I am thinking about the background and asking logical questions instead of letting my emotions run away with me. But, aren’t these the kind of things that police officers on the spot might ask?
@Mannie: You presume he attacked. He had a gun. He did not need to attack. Attacking someone physically while in possession of a gun is foolhardy and makes no sense.
And the casing from the discharged round failed to eject from the chamber.
@drjohn:
This, coupled with Zimmerman’s report that Martin grabbed for his gun, is evidence that there was such a struggle. The action failed to cycle, as it might if someone was grasping the slide. The strength of that evidence is up to the Trier of Fact to evaluate in view of the totality of the evidence. But it sounds a helluva lot like it establishes reasonable doubt that Zimmerman acted illegally.
I am George Zimmerman.
@The Strategic MC: There are very few ways that can happen.
@drjohn:
You appear to be arguing two different points.
First, you claim that the SYG law is not applicable in this particular case. On that point we agree at least as far as it being applied to protect Zimmerman. Zimmerman lost the SYG protections when he left his vehicle and initiated contact by pursuing Martin.
Had Martin survived he, instead, would have been entitled to the protections of SYG.
Second, you claim that the STG law was not applied to the Zimmerman case. That is completely, and undeniably incorrect as I cited above. The immunity provisions of the SYG law were clearly applied to Zimmerman and given as a reason for him not being arrested in this case.
You’ve got to pick a horse and ride it here.
Either SYG applies, and was applied correctly. Or, SYG doesn’t apply and was applied incorrectly.
You cannot have it both ways so which horse do you want?
@drjohn:
Like, for instance, the gun was jammed/wedged between Zimmerman and Martin when the trigger was pulled or, Martin had his hand on/around the gun when it discharged? Maybe both?
Am I missing something?
@Mannie:
Well, if that were true you wouldn’t have followed on with:
The FL SYG statute is clear and unequivocal. 776.013(3)(2006) states:
@The Strategic MC:
Yes. Weapon malfunction.
Even in the best of conditions, firearms don’t always function as intended.
We don’t know very much about this handgun. How old was it? How was it stored? How well was it maintained? When was it last serviced? When was it last fired? How old was the ammunition?
Lots of possibilities to consider as to why the firearm didn’t cycle beyond a theory that Martin had his hand around the slide.
@c. lindy:
“But where Zimmerman’s assumptions were wrong, Martin’s were dead right.”
I accept your argument that Martin might well have been afraid.
If Martin’s conduct, including approaching Zimmerman, hitting him in the face, etc., is as described in Zimmerman’s version of events (corroborated so far by the available tapes and physical evidence), Zimmerman’s suspicions seem rather accurate.
@Mannie:
Given the physical injuries I don’t know that I agree. As I have said before, I think the very last thing Zimmerman wanted to do was shoot Martin.
@The Strategic MC:
I am thinking struggle for the weapon. If Zimmerman had intentions of shooting Martin, then he just shoots him immediately and gets it over with without hailing all the eyewitnesses, and without calling the cops first.
We are missing the big question:
Did Zimmerman enjoy the Skittles?
@drjohn:
Another basic factual inaccuracy on your part.
Martin didn’t call his girlfriend. She called him:
This corresponds with what Zimmerman had to say on the 911 tape when he talks about Martin having his hand in his waistband. It’s obvious that he was reaching for his ringing telephone.
@Aye:
Aye, I believe I said that the entire law was presented and I think so as not to allow anyone to think something was omitted. It’s my belief that Zimmerman’s case is one of self-defense. I had my doubts initially and said little about it until the case unfolded. I don’t know why you’re trying to find hairs to split. So far, I’ve been pretty on target about this whole thing.
You assume Zimmerman to be the aggressor. As Zimmerman asked Martin why he was there in the first place without simply shooting him, I doubt Zimerman was the aggressor.
@Aye:
Fantastic. So why didn’t Martin call 911 if he felt threatened?
@Aye: And you still haven’t answered why Martin did not seek refuge in Green’s home when he had more than sufficient time to do so.
@drjohn:
Obviously Zimmerman was the guy in this equation who liked to make a habit of dialing 911 as is evident through his voluminous call history.
Perhaps Martin just wasn’t the type of person who jumped at his own shadow.
Finally, you’re making an assumption that Martin felt threatened. Would you feel threatened if a stranger were following you around your neighborhood at night?
@Aye:
So Martin wasn’t in fear. And you might want to see what many of those calls were about. Just for laughs.
@Aye:
After many years and thousands of rounds, I’ve neither seen nor experienced (absent a mis-fire), a total failure to cycle.
OTOH, stove pipe ejections/jams are fairly common. I’ve heard nothing of a stovepipe in this particular case.
@drjohn:
Because my theory is a bit different than yours and actually meshes better with the facts as we know them.
I issued a challenge to Hankster yesterday to see if he wanted to step up. I will offer the same to you:
So, are you up for it?
@Aye: And as long as some demand the content of the next post, here:
Ibid.
@Aye: Aye, I put up a post and you hammered away at it. So please feel free to put up your own post. You’re the author here, not me. If you don’t like people disagreeing with you, take it up with Curt and simply disallow any more reader posts.
@The Strategic MC:
The 9mm handgun that I owned about twenty years ago was notorious for just this sort of thing. Every other, or every third shot at best.
Needless to say I didn’t own it very long.
@drjohn:
So, you’re not up for the challenge, eh? Just what I thought.
As for hammering away at your post? Nah, not yet I haven’t.