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Weekly Open Thread
Let me know what you think about the new like/dislike buttons in the comment section
[poll id=”60″]
If you like it do you want to keep the feature which hides a unpopular comment?
[poll id=”61″]
See author page
Okay, since this is an open thread. I have a question to put to the regulars here at FA.
I want to purchase a gun to have in my home. For protection of my home and family. I do not hunt, so I have no rifles or shotguns in my house, I am looking for a good, reliable and not terribly expensive handgun.
Any suggestions?
I would suggest a 12 gauge shotgun with 3- 7.5 bird shot rounds and two OO Buck rounds. This would limit the range your shot can travel, and would be less likely to carry to another room or outside your home thus decreasing the likelyhood of unintended damage. A pistol has a higher probability of hitting innocents in another room or outside the house. If you insist on a handgun I would recommend a .38 caliber revolver. Automatics are difficult to opperate if they jam, unless you are an experienced shooter you are unable to defend yourself. A revolver shot that fails doesn’t generally disable the gun you just pull the trigger again. I would recommend a defensive handgun or shotgun training class available in most communities. They are far more capable than me of accessing your needs and capabilities. The cost of these classes is minimal $50 to $100 bucks and you get information that is far more valuable than the money. They discuss and train you on proper care and handling, proper shooting technique, liability associated with firearms use, money well spent.
I keep a .38 revolver around for that reason.
It is easier for me to load than any of our other guns.
But there is nothing like the sound of racking a shotgun to get an intruder moving in the right direction.
I just would never use one as it would do more damage to our place, plus, the mess, if you know what I mean.
My .38 has never given me a lick of trouble.
And it has terrific accuracy.
___________________________________
On the +- vote system.
Perhaps posters will train themselves to be cogent, if a cogent argument (which one agrees or disagrees with) gets positive votes.
But human nature, being what it is, that’s probably not what’s going to happen.
We might see running popularity contests, or worse; writing for the + grade.
You can certainly do it for a while and see what happens.
I’d hate to see someone voted down constantly when he/she is only expressing a minority view, especially if he/she is doing a good job of it.
Right now I am sort of not taking part in the votes.
I did give Ilovebees…. a ”+” but her comment was perfect!
@ anticsrocks, anything that does not start with .45 is a Ladys handgun. I recommend a used Colt Defender in .45 if price is an issue.
Discharging ANY Shotgun in the House will require some serious remodeling work.
To include shot or slugs.
My only concern about the thumbs up/down is that if a number of moonbats swarm the site they could wreak some havok.
Antics a few questions are in order:
Do you live in a house? An apartment? How close is your nearest neighbor?
What experience do you have with firearms? Will others in the house have access to it? What experience do they have with firearms?
How often will you practice? Will you seek professional training?
Any ideas on how you will store it?
I also suggest you and anyone else in the home create a plan on how to deal with a break in while you are there.
@anticsrocks, I’m with OT on one aspect… anything that doesn’t start with .45 (or perhaps at least a .40) is somewhat eye candy as opposed to effective. (don’t necessarily want to go to the “lady’s bit… LOL! Who would need the bigger gun more but a lady, right?)
It depends upon how many rounds you want to discharge to stop an intruder. And don’t forget the possibility they may be on amphetamines, which makes them more impervious to bullet wounds, as I’m sure Curt would attest.
The reason I went for my Colt Series 80 MK IV (45acp) is for stopping power. Two well aimed shots in most instances, and there’s one incapacitated intruder. The second is because I needed that firepower to drop the metal pop ups in action pistol competition stages. The smaller calibers generally just ricochet off that heavy metal without doing the job.
You should find some safety and arms handling training offered by many of the local gunshops and ranges. They can let you test a few models under their watchful eye in the interim, and then you can decide what you want.
A bit off the Fire Arms and Like/Dislike topic…
Is Harry Reid going to put Himself out of a Job?
Reid Calls on Nevada Legislature to ‘Outlaw’ Prostitution
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/22/nevada-brothel-owners-reportedly-concerned-reid-outlawing-prostitution/?test=latestnews
As Former Majority Leader of the Parliament of Whores this comes as a rather shocking revelation.
Next thing Ya know He will be screaming about the immorality of Church Bingo or something.
Both Gaming and the Sporting House Business generate Revenue for the State of Nevada. He should have encouraged the completion of the Yucca Flats Repository for spent Nuke Fuel Rods as a Revenue Measure.
What bloody Audacity!
Eh Wot!
I can recognize the trolls after a post or two.
Hiding the comment means I would have to open/expand the comment to decide, that would be an extra click when otherwise I could simply scroll past.
I have no comment/concern on “like/dislike”; except that it does give me some idea of other readers opinoin.
As a second thought, hiding a comment by votes could give trolls a way to hide comments they do not like.
Who has the ability to hide the comments?
Oh, my. What do we have here?
Yes indeed, I can imagine it would…. more:
http://radio.woai.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=119078&article=8203908
I carry a Ruger SP-101. It cost me $545 including the shoulder holster.
(I have a C&C Permit).
I have other guns, more rifles than pistols. If you plan on going through the process to obtain a Carry & conceal license (and thus will often be armed in public) I have some advice for you.
First of all, get a pistol you can handle. For me, a 357 is the largest caliber compact handgun I can handle. Some people have stronger wrists (This handgun also comes in a 38 cal version), and the SP-101 is compact and feels comfortable in your hand, and the recoil is more “up” than “back” when shooting with just one hand. That’s important because it’s easier to reacquire the target after a shot. (Keep one speed loader cylinder handy in case you meet more than 6 “special guests” in that ally way). I agree with going with a revolver, but not NOT ONLY for the reason that they are more reliable.
When you’re armed in public, you ever know what kind of situation you will encounter. If you’re going to hesitate to fire the weapon then you have no business carrying it. Hesitate, and you could end up having it used on you, and the only way somebody should ever get killed by their own weapon is because they ran out of ammo and were beaten to death with it.
Sometimes there may be “questionable circumstances.” In a world full of people unsympathetic to those who use their right to bear arms, you can do two things to mitigate those “circumstances.
A) A revolver is my “public gun of choice” because the spent shell casings remain in the gun, they are not ejected unless you reload. Spent casing often lead back to the purchaser. They tie the weapon to the wound (if the bullet passed through and was lost as evidence), a search of weapon type gives a list of owners, the casing ties you to the place of purchase. You can avoid all of that just by using a revolver.
B) And I know this is “unethical”, but reality being what it may, I carry meticulously cleaned, or I should say “cleansed”, small .22 cal “parlor pistol” (unregistered, just one “CB Cap” in it so I can’t get killed by it, with no numbers on it — of course) in a baggie, in my boot. If I’m all alone with a corpse, that pistol will be found on the ground near the perp after I put his prints on it.
(And I learned that trick in the Army after seeing a colleague falsely accused of shooting an “unarmed” assailant. As if him being armed or not really makes a difference. When I went to school, “attacker” meant ATTACKER, armed or not).
Go with revolver, in the highest caliber you can realistically stay in control of. (No less than 1-foot off-center on each and every shot after emptying the weapon at a target 40-feet away in rapid succession).
The side arm idea up to you, just saying that I’ve “been there.”
Oh, and as for the comments section, I would really like to have the ability to post pictures and pdf documents (the actual documents).
A picture’s worth a thousand words, you know.
@MataHarley:
Mata: I assure you that with my SP-101, I can “Ice” any assailant from under 150 feet whether He’s on “Ice” or not. He’ll “chill’in out” from the climate in the morgue.
And I don’t even use Wad Cutters, which, as a flat based lead bullet are erroneously thought to be inaccurate at more than 20-yards. I’ve repeatedly hit targets 50-yards away with them.
Is use 357 Remington Magnum rounds, 130 Grain, Hydra-Shock Jacketed Hollow Point rounds. They only cost about a buck-twenty-five apiece. Any torso shot means an instant take-down. Situation over.
I don’t doubt you could, Nostradamus. But with my regular shooting matches behind me, and not enough regular practice in the past decade, I’m not willing to take chances. My last outing last year showed me that at 20yds, I was A+ group accurate. Fell apart at 25yds, and would only wound an intruder. Lesson? Get closer… but not too close.
In the case of anticsrocks, I think it comes down to the same. To be comfortable and experienced enough with what you choose, but if you’re not engaging regularly in practice, be prepared for dropping them fast. And then, as I mentioned, there’s that effect drugs have on perps. Stopping these guys on meth or crack almost takes a mortar! (yes, that’s an exaggeration, but you get what I mean… ).
I sure understand the revolver vs semi auto comments INRE stability. But again, that comes down to maintenance and regular shooting. (and perhaps not depending upon reload ammo by unknown sources…). But I have to tell you, I’ve shot the 9″ long revolvers and smaller barrel sizes. I find no substitute for the speed of reloading a magazine to reloading a revolver. And seconds can save your life.
Weapons are like cars and spouses… it’s all personal. They all take some research, need regular attention, interfacing and maintenance. And I suspect we all have our priorities when it comes to self defense, while taking into consideration our flaws while doing so. Probably the best defense for we “kinder, more gentle sex” is to rent space to you, OT or Curt, eh? LOL
I routinely at Home carry a Colt Defender as well as a .32 Beretta Tomcat. I do have the required permits and highly recommend some Professional Training for any handgun as well as range time to become intimate with the use of the firearm if the use to save Your Life becomes a necessity.
Pick the weapon that You can personally handle safely and fire with the desired effect. Do Your shopping wisely and get not only fits your hand but what You can be comfortable with. The desired effect is You still breathing and the threat assuming room temperature with You and Yours unharmed.
You want a gun that fits your hand well and a caliber you can handle. Antics, here’s something you can do. Go to shooting ranges that rent guns. Try out various calibers and manufacturers. That way you get to know what you like and what you shoot well with.
I have to ask again, will anyone else in the household be shooting the gun potentially?
@ Mata, all of my handguns are semi autos and I am very familiar with them. Any handgun engagement I have experienced has been at under 10 meters. At that distance, accurate shot placement, without hesitation, only comes from range work.
The best advice is to practice, get familiar with the “tool” you intend to use and as the Retired Cochise County Arizona Sheriff told me many moons ago “never draw me in anger or put me away in shame” was the policy for handgun use. It still applies.
You betcha, OT…. INRE that key phrase “without hesitation”. It’s different, without stress, at an indoor range than it is when in a situation of a physical pickle, and possibly ugly lighting. My Colt had been modified and streamlined for action pistol use. Once I got used to it, along with my particular flaws in response to the recoil with regular use, I was pretty accurate. But not necessarily with the speed I needed. However most of our action pistol stages had targets at 3-5 yards at most.
The only time I test the approx max range of the weapon is at an indoor range. (dang I love playing with bringing those silouettes in and out… :0). Would get tired of pulling out the binocs for siting/adjusting on the outdoors. Easy on indoor stuff. In this past instance, I was test shooting my bro’s Glock 38. Actually threw me off since I’ve never had laser sites as an added option. I’m not sure whether they gave me false confidence and made me lazy. The reason I went out for the distance on his was to test what accuracy I may have left after such a long time of being inactive. Not to mention getting used to the different recoil. Been thinking of getting a CC, but that Colt is highly unfriendly for that.
Did better than I thought for the 20 yrds, but sure wouldn’t want to push that for a self defense situation. I’d say just out of sword or knife reach would suit me just fine!
If I remember correctly the 9mm travels at 1200 feet per second; which means it will go through the guy your aiming at and whoever is standing behind them. The 45 only travels at 800 feet per second; Therefore for a 45 Will be a safer option since it rarely goes right through the target; it is often used in hostage rescue situations for this reason. Go with the colt 1911 its a classic weapon that derives its name from the year it was made, its also blowback operated instead of gas operated; meaning there is less chance of a jam due to carbon buildup in the chamber, that is an unfortunate truth about many of the gas operated modern weapons, they have killed many people.
@Zac, a 185 grain .45 JHP travels fast enough to suit me and is a proven “stopper”. That is the desired result. End of engagement as quick as possible and Bad Guy in “hasty” prone position assuming room temperature.
@Old Trooper2:
You are right about knowing your weapon. I can literally load mine with my eyes closed.
I just hope we haven’t overwhelmed Antics with information.
Old trooper: I must say you have a way with words sir. I like to be armed but I don’t have the proper licenses, and where I’m from no one has them. Right now the only weapons I cary are my two fists and they are proven crackhead stoppers. Hands down.
@Hard Right: If He finds a good Gun Shop with some Good and knowledgeable Folks running it, He can be directed to a Good Range and Competent Instructors. From there, in good hands, the rest will be easy.
@Zac: Your Best Defense is that connection between Your Eyes and that Grey Matter housed in Your Skull. Fight or Flight is then a simple task. Sometimes the odds favor an end result with You walking away, but if You are where You are supposed to be and the Threat is not, anything in arms reach can be used to end the engagement.
Old Trooper: That’s good advice, many years back, a guy tried to break into a restaurant I was working in and when I told him to leave he pointed a knife at me, the only thing I had was a push broom so I jabbed him in the face with it a couple times, the police came by and clearly saw it was self defense. His face looked decidedly different after.
The problem with not owning a pistol for self defense is that the criminals still have them, therefore I always try to avoid confrontation if at all possible. However in rare occasions it becomes a question of honor, and that’s a fight I refuse to walk away from.
@ Zac, I will Fight to save My Life or Those of others. Honor is getting a Flag folded and handed to my next of Kin at my Funeral.
Old trooper: In my mind I thought that saving my life and the lives of others was honor, but maybe its just the right thing to do.
Wow! A lot of information, but then I expected nothing less. Thank you all.
To answer Hard Right’s questions:
I live in a two story, approx. 3,000 sq ft house. My nearest neighbor is 100 feet away. My experience with firearms is limited, but I am not completely ignorant of the proper use and precautions associated with them. No one else will have access to it, save for possibly my wife. She is familiar with guns, her father taught her how to use them when growing up. I will probably take some courses, after I see what is offered locally.
As for storing it, I intend to get a small lockable gun safe.
Thanks all for the input. I feel very welcome here at FA. It is nice to know that I can turn to you all when the need arises.
anticsrocks, several of us has suggested “courses”, as well as loitering around your local gunsmith/shop retail outlet. Look for one that has a range included with their retail outlet. They can help you test out a few weapons for your needs while they oversee you in your original stages. You might also enjoy some of the local sporting clubs for “practice”. My bro, an ex AF Vietnam era serviceman, only recently got into the action pistol sporting arena. Now he’s as hooked as I was a decade ago. Right now, I live vicariously thru him for the “action”. It’s a great way not only to remain familiar with your weapon, but for learning to quickly discern “enemy” from “friendly” targets… in a non combat zone.
Now for the real thing, you talk to OT. His snap judgment of enemy vs friendly isn’t so conducive to the learning stage. But I’ll guarantee you’ll have more fun with action pistol than OT’s hard core reality training camp… and still come out with some more than respectable control with your weapon and judgment.
Take a look at the Springfield XD series. They are very reliable and accurate. Have an XD45 Tactical(13rds) for home defense and for concealed carry a Kel Tec P11(10 rds) in 9mm.
@ Mata, all of my Targets were Mobile and Capable of shooting back. There is no excuse for not getting Competent instruction and Range time.
My immediate thought is that if some Jasper that is a Threat gets in pistol Range, no further discussion is required. That’s too darn close for exchange of terms of endearment or asking about intent. But then the difference between Military and Civilian situations can vary a whole lot.
I found this piece about an event in history that is seldom mentioned.
*Not for those with weak stomachs
http://www.slate.com/id/2284198/pagenum/all/#p2
Antics, I don’t really have much experience with pistols, but I used to carry them on the trap line, mainly because they were lighter than a rifle. I carried a 22 for finishing fur animals that were not quite dead and a 44 Mag revolver for the possibility of a winter Grizzly encounter. (They sometimes wake up and take a walk to see if something is available to kill and eat) I rigged a scope on the 44 and used it to shoot prairie chickens (grouse) with head shots. (I cheated and braced against trees.) I made a silencer because I hate the noise of big weapons and I am nearly deaf from their sounds, it worked quite well. You didn’t really need to hit the head, I think you could miss by a quarter inch and still have dinner. Oh, those were the days. Most guys don’t like the 44 because it kicks like a mule, but I felt fairly secure at the thought of a Grizzly encounter. Crackheads just kill you, they don’t eat you. LOL Practice and familiarization is about the only useful information I can really vouch for. I’ve only owned one rifle in my life, a Nazi Mauser from 1943, it still has the eagle and swastika stamps in the receiver. (They were bastards, but they made good weapons) It now has a fiberglass stock and a nickel barrel, the bolt and receiver are customized and chambered for an 06 brass and a scope. It is called a wildcat or a Poor man’s magnum. It has seen a fair amount of action in it’s life and it looks like it will easily outlive me.
With this type of weapon you need to handload all your ammo and it takes a clear and methodical mind to do that with consistency, mistakes can be pretty bad. Not recommended for suburbia, it will travel through several houses before getting tired, but it will turn a crackhead inside out.
I prefer something along this line for personal use
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=82926
Happy hunting
@ blackiris, Pretty nice shootin iron!
Yes, the government issue 45acps of that era,are a good balance between the bennies of semi-auto, and stability/low maintenance that many revolver fanatics demand. Thus why they were “government issue”, similar to mine.
So blackiris.. what mag capacity goes in your state?
Blackiris I’m impressed. sorry I called you a socialist, I can now clearly see you are not.
@MataHarley: Wisconsin is not a “Right to Carry State”. No CC Permits there. You gotta carry a Cop around with You or take Your Chances.
Good thing I’m not in Wisconsin, eh Old Trooper? But then, no matter where I am I always have my attitude. Assailants don’t like to work too hard, and they tend to view me as more trouble than it’s worth. A few historic incidents that I personally use for my opinions… nothing I’d offer up for public consumption, but enough to formulate some experienced strategics. But certainly nothing scientific or substantiated by polls and government paid studies, of course.
Like I said… best weapon I could have with me is someone like Curt, you and a few other experienced cool heads here. One thing I can say… I know what I know. And what I am most fully aware of is what I *don’t* know. And when I find myself in that arena, I tend to defer to the experts for the lead.
But in that instance, I make a great “Tonto”!
The 45. has a certain stopping power that most don’t, I think its a much finer gun than a 9mm, but I’m old fashioned that way.
My rifle collection as a farm boy consisted of a 22. and a red rider bb gun. I’ve tested numerous weapons on gophers, I’ve also done my part as an environmentalist to curb the hostile takeover of overpopulated bird species. The 22. Was the old stand by, it was more power than one needed to kill a gopher. Sometimes I could find two gophers side by side and kill them both with one shot. One time I killed 3 gophers in one shot. When my mother was upset sometimes would take away my brothers and my 22’s, which left us fewer options in our endeavors, seeing as the bb gun sometimes took 50 shots to kill one gopher; a shot at point blank range was in order. In the spirit of ingenuity we would tie a piece of bailing twine like a lasso. We put the snare end over the hole, one brother would hold the end of the bailing twine and the other would hold the bb gun, and we would wait in still, quiet anticipation. When the gopher would poke its head out the hole one brother would pull the string and lift the gopher high in the snare while the other brother would take the bb gun to it at point blank range. This was an effective use of a red rider bb gun. If my mother really became angry sometimes we would be forced to use a slingshot. Unfortunately I was the younger of the two brothers so I often had to hold the gopher wile my bro did the honors.
Interestingly enough one of my favorite weapons for hunting gophers became the compound bow. Honestly it was a hassle to pull the string at first, but before long I became a pro. Now I have known many people who prefer the long bow but it often took both my brother and I to string the thing, and was more trouble than it was worth. The crossbow was an effective gopher weapon also. As a side note; if you plan on shooting birds out of the sky don’t use arrows unless you are planing to buy new ones, they go right through the bird and into the outer reaches of the galaxy never to be seen again.
Despite my hunting i have a great deal of respect for animals. I’m missing two toes on my left foot from trying to save a rabbit, (NO JOKE) but that’s a story for another time. Yes, if mother nature wants you dead you would be that way, so my rule is; always respect mother nature.
Zac,
Haha well I don’t know about that but I do know; this is definitely more interesting than the homo thread is.
Hummmm…. let’s see, where would I go? A choice between a discussion about the different features and benefits of firearms, or a “homo thread”? Wait uh minute, let me think. uh…. errrrrr….. uhhhhhhhh…..don’t help…… scratches head…..LOL
@MataHarley: What Zac referred to as the Homo Thread is perhaps the most pathetic collection of “info” that I have ever seen at FA. I have been to 3 Wars, a few Goat Ropes and some County Fairs but that thread takes the cake. More information than I required, Thank You!
Makes My Life seem like a Cake Walk by Comparison.
Mata I think you and I agree on a lot of things. I’d be happy to join your fan club when you start one.
God only gave me so many brain cells, I don’t have enough to allocate to all those long opinionated posts on that thread.
Unless, you are defending yourself from the zombie apocalypse, a firearm is probably not the best thing for you. The first problem is the reach of the firearm. If you are really protective like some people, you walk around the house with you pistol in a holster. Some friends will think you are crazy and you may just end up with your crazy friends. The other choice is to leave it nearby where it can be stolen while you are gone or a child could get to it. Also think about a home invasion robbery. The best method they can use is shout, “Police!” and break in. Then you have to think, ” If they really are the police, do I really want to be holding a firearm?” You should look at other possibilities such as steal doors with locks (and a sturdy frame) so no matter what room you go into, it can become a safe room (or a way out if there is a window); a key fob controlled alarm; a cell phone; a dog (small dogs are actually better because they are more alert), outside cameras and the like.
Yes, I didn’t need to get my feet wet on the homo thread. I’ve worked for a lot of gay guys and I can honestly say they don’t like me. They usually find a younger cuter guy to do my job at the first opportunity, so I don’t have much faith in their professionalism and reliability. I try not to worry over a person’s sexuality unless they chase kids or animals, in those cases I can become agitated to the extreme. It is part of thepurpose of the gay agenda to make us have discussions about the gay life so that we become more inured at the thought.
The gay guys at the horse shows used to like me to tell them the story of when I had roped a 350 pound boar hog and had the rope wrapped around a barn rafter and was fighting to keep his front end over a barrel while Knarley was trying to castrate him with a dull knife. I was the better knife sharpener, but I was fighting this boar hog while Knarley was complaining about not bing able to get a good edge on the knife. Needless to say, I was ready to let the hog go and walk over and box his ears.
It’s funny now, but the gay guys would get delirious and really excited when I told them that story. A strange bunch indeed. Now they want to wear the uniform, we’ll see how that goes.
@Zac: I have never read so much on being a perpetual victim of the hormones or Folks having such miserable lives. I have been to Three Wars, been stabbed once, shot twice, had amoebic dysentery once, got some RPG frags in my legs and backside but never been “ambushed” by my own hormones.
Knarly manners sounds like a guy I would like to meet. You and he must go way back.
Old trooper I have great respect not only for what you’ve done for your country but that you arnt one of those sour “hormones guy” I want to pay the price and be like that when I’m older.
Ambushed by hormones?
You can always tell a male hormone from a female hormone by pulling their jeans down.
The best way to make a hormone is not to pay her.
I know I don’t have a gay gene because I wear wranglers.
Zac, the Price of Admission can be interesting to say the least.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3KP_2zMxUI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwNH7048K8k&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWjS67iMlGY&feature=related
Then You can be Deployed Anywhere in the World in under 72 Hours and the Fun begins!
@MataHarley: You said:
Sounds like a more wordy version of a little nugget my Dad told me once – “Half of being smart is knowing what you’re dumb at and staying away from it.”
@Skookum: There is a “Sporting House” in Helena that does more Charitable work for the community than the American Red Cross but from what I understand it is COD, cash on delivery. Mind You, I have never been a client but that is from reliable sources that I would trust.
@Old Trooper2, yup… saw the headline and thought “there’s a never ending debate that will end up hotheads on both sides”.
@Zac, such kind words. Thank you. No plans for “fans” or sites. Just another conversationalist on FA of late.
@Gregory_Dittman… WTF? Obviously you have never been in a real life moment of self defense if you think you’ve got time to concoct all you’ve concocted there. Dead giveaway? How many instances do you think gunowners strap on a holster when they investigate noises?
Pining to be a Hollywood screenwriter much? duh Embarrasing diatribe there.
@anticsrocks, yup… you betcha. I had a smart Daddy too.
Oh, and @Skookum?