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Yep, I agree. Taking her down to the ground to subdue her until security or the police could arrive is one thing. The man that placed his foot on her head and shoulders should be prosecuted fully.
ms bees If you didn’t watch the video why would you comment on it?
Suggest you watch it and let us know what you think. Is that unreasonable?
As to your constant name calling(rodents etc.) I CONTINUE TO LAUGH.
Nan G
13 years ago
Some have such short memories.
But mine are long.
RFK had just won the California Democratic Primary.
I was in the ballroom in 1968 when RFK was killed by Sirhan Sirhan.
We heard (and it was later confirmed) that Rosie Greer, Rafer Johnson and several others WRESTLED with Sirhan Sirhan until they got the gun and had him DOWN.
I doubt anyone would have 2nd-guessed that move.
I only wished it could have taken place when the gun was first taken out instead of after shots were fired.
rich wheeler, just read my comment to B-rob and you , that will answered it.
AS for rodents behavior, YOU must admit both of your’s is similar to it.
because the 2 of you can get so desperatly low in attacking a person on the other side of your
party,
I can tell that there’s no point in trying to explain that Reagan doubled revenue to the government by cutting taxes because you’ll tell me that’s just because GDP increased!
That’s precisely what happened! But — and how can I get you to understand this — the debt ratio DOUBLED because of Reagan’s tax cuts — after having fallen for 35 years under both Republican and Democratic administrations. I provided a citation for my (absolutely true) statement that even conservative economists agree that tax cuts have NEVER paid for themselves! Of course tax revenues increase. They always increase, as the GDP increases, which it always does, save for short blips because of temporary recessions.
Don’t you understand that when you cut taxes and pay for the tax cuts by borrowing money that this is a Keynesian stimulus no less than when you increase spending and pay for the spending by borrowing money? Ronald Reagan borrowed massive amounts of money to pay for his massive tax cuts. He doubled the debt ratio. George W Bush borrowed massive amounts of money to pay for his massive tax cuts and he increased the debt rato by 50%. The GOP proposed a 500 billion dollar Keynesian stimulus. Bush and Paulson were the authors of the 700 billion bank bailout. Cheney advised Bush to bail out GM and Chrysler, and the Bush administration gave GM and Chrysler 17 billion in the last two month of the Bush administration. The taxpayers will never get back this 17 billion, but they are likely to recover the follow-on money which Obama invested in GM and Chrysler
Obama’s Keynesian stimulus was $250 billion more than proposed by the GOP. The debt ratio has risen 10% on Obama’s watch, so far, but only a small portion of this is attributable to Obama’s “extra” 250 billion dollar stimulus (over the 500 billion proposed by the GOP). 250 billion divided by 14 trillion = a 1.7% increase in the debt ratio attributable to Obama-originated policies, as opposed to a 50% increase for GWB and a 200% increase for Ronald Reagan and a DECREASE for every other post WWII President! But the number one drumbeat issue for the GOP this election is the “generational theft” of Obama’s policies and his increasing debt!
Debtor, heal thyself. Rather than talking vaguely about hypothetical 1.7 trillion dollar spending cuts which will never happen, just rescind the ill-advised Bush tax cut (as advocated by Alan Greenspan, among others) and you’ll increase tax revenues by 1.7 trillion and essentially solve the debt problem by the year 2015.
The Greatest Generation taxed themselves (91% marginal tax rate! confiscatory estate taxes!) to pay off their debts and they paid them off. Today’s conservatives claim to love their country, but they aren’t willing to pay for it. I agree with Joe Biden — it’s patriotic to pay your own way.
Bringing the tax rates back to where they were in the 90s is socialism? By the way, someone else was trumpeting Britain’s new austerity program, but they failed to note that Britain started out with a much more heavily bloated government bureaucracy than exists in the USA AND Britain’s newly elected conservative government ALSO RAISED THE VAT (national sales tax) from 17.5% to 20%.
By the way, someone proposed an interesting federal budget in an earlier comment (#87), but left out the NIH and the FDA.
How horrifying to have been there, that will never leave you.
We also have Reagan’s assassination attempt, Ford’s and Lennon’s murder etched in our long memories, all approached by strangers in a crowd.
These activist clowns have been playing fast and loose for some time with their own safety, no reason to let our guard down because they want to be stupid.
There was no reason for the man to put his foot on her, but the other has come forward, it won’t be long before the foot guy is found and questioned, no excuse for his actions.
Old Trooper 2
13 years ago
Re the video. I cannot excuse the conduct of the individual that performed the ‘stomp’ as it was unnecessary. Why a resident of Flamouth, Mass was in attendance there with a videographer johnny on the spot is open to question.
Republicorp? I smell a rat here. Never heard of it and doubt if it exists. Why does this smell like an agitator trying to pull a cheap stunt and a Paul supporter over reacting? That appears to be all it is
and folks that go looking for trouble can find it in Falmouth Mass and don’t have to go to Kentucky or anywhere else to find it.
Interesting commentary on the staged You Tube Video and it is great to see that chivalry is not dead here at FA, but this was a cheap political stunt that went bad and it would be best left at that.
The Paul Supporter over reacted, the Gal from Falmouth was looking to ‘create’ a political media event and got one. Lets let it go at that. What tickles me is the over reaction here at FA on this incident. A molehill has become a larger one and no mountain here folks. Some folks are easily fooled but some background is necessary on the incident before I comment.
Nan G
13 years ago
Missy, I was in the ballroom, not the kitchen area where the shots were fired.
But the feeling was eerily similar on 9-11-01.
I remember thinking that very fact: this feels the same as that night in 1968.
I remember it growing worse and worse.
Both times.
It’s like at first you just cannot wrap your mind around it, then, slowly, you do….and it is worse than you thought it could ever be.
I agree with Joe Biden — it’s patriotic to pay your own way.
Forgetting the attribution of that comment to Biden for a minute, paying one’s own way does not entail raping the wallets of hard-working Americans to pay back your campaign contributors. Why do you think there is all the angst amongst the TEA Party crowd? How much of the stimulus was specifically directed to groups that supported the Democrats in 06′ and 08′?
Why should I, who work hard to make my own ends meet, have to pay for someone else’s mistake in taking on a bigger mortgage than they could handle? That isn’t paying one’s own way. That is becoming servile to the state.
Old Trooper 2
13 years ago
@ Missy, I concur.
@ rich wheeler, if you could not determine that the video was a staged event that went down ugly, I would be surprised. I thought that you were more observant than that. Is it a game changer? Nope. Just an indication of how overzealous the politics have become in this election. Common sense is an uncommon commodity for activism these days. It was lacking at this event on both sides.
Nan G
13 years ago
Isn’t it ironic that some can say: I agree with Joe Biden — it’s patriotic to pay your own way…..
When the fact of the matter is, people were given opportunities to pay EXTRA on their federal and even state taxes but virtually no one does it? Rich or not!
In 2008 Joe actually said this:
“We want to take money and put it back in the pocket of middle-class people. It’s time (for the well-off) to be patriotic. Time to jump in, time to be part of the deal, time to help get America out of the rut.””
Oddly he was referring to Obama’s plan to raise taxes on all those making over $250,000/year.
BUT look who is backing off that now…..
“Here’s the bottom line we have: I don’t have any problem with wealthy people getting a tax cut. These are good guys,” Biden said!
@johngalt: More than half the people who took out subprime loans qualified for low rate fixed mortgages, but were steered into the subprimes by mortgage brokers, working on commission, fueled by a worldwide capital glut, in a financial market where T Bills were paying essentially zero, and money had nowhere to go. And who decided to bail out buyers of all those securitized mortgages and sellers of credit default swaps? Paulson and Bush, a policy continued by Geithner and Obama. True bipartisanship.
Our government made the decision to bail out Wall Street. Most people now think that this was a good decision. Paulson said that, absent this action, unemployment now would be at 25%. But — good decision or bad, it was our government which spent the money and we can either decide to pay for this ourselves or we can pass on the debt to future generations. I don’t happen to think that the Iraq War was a particularly good expenditure of government funds, but my government did this in my time and I am responsible for this debt, not future generations.
And, once again, let’s keep things in perspective. For the greater portion of my life, marginal tax rates were 91%, then 70% and capital gains taxes were 48%. The nation did just fine. All it would take to solve virtually all of the current financial ills would be to bring back tax rates to where they were in the 1990s (39% marginal tax rate). And we whine as if we are being gored by an ox.
OT2 Are you saying Paul’s opponent hired that fat red neck to put his size 13 boot on that woman’s throat? If that proves true I’ll be the first to apologize,
Still, the simple question is: Why should I pay for someone else’s mistakes? That is the simple crux of the argument many in the conservative camp are wondering. Where is the responsibility to oneself? With the progressives, it is non-existent. The belief that someone “owes” them something is what drives their calls for more, more, more from the government. I work hard, pay my own way in life, and ask little of any government other than decent roads to drive on and fire and police protection when needed, and military power to protect my freedoms. The atmosphere the liberals/progressives are promoting is one of the government will provide everything for you. Cradle to grave. That, simply put, is placing one in serfdom to the elites in the government.
Whether or not you’ve paid higher taxes in the past has little bearing on today. Spending is out of control, boundaries have been overstepped, and too much of what should be personal control in one’s life has been subjugated to the government. It isn’t that I don’t want to pay anything in taxes, far from it. I just believe in actually paying for what I use from the government, not for others to take it for free.
It only stands to reason that where there’s sacrifice, there’s someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there’s service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master.
Ayn Rand
Old Trooper 2
13 years ago
@ Nope. Why do you conclude that? A size 13? Do you have inside info or just conjecture?
I’d call it a head on collision provoked by activists and it went poorly. Stupid + Stupid = Stupid.
I’d not make that a big deal on a National scale or let it get my blood pressure disturbed. The Paul supporter reacted poorly to provocation. I would not be foolish enough to make any further assumptions as I did not witness the incident. It was a staged and produced ‘media event” that went badly. Bad behavior on both ends and not relative to anything of any real consequence in the Kentucky Congressional Race. It would not sway my vote if I was a Kentucky resident.
I am on Temporary Active Duty dealing with issues of a larger consequence, checked in at FA and noticed the ‘tempest in a teacup’ here and the FA reaction. I only draw conclusions based on things that I have more information on but what a gal from Mass is doing there in the first place is suggestive of some premeditation on her part to stage an ‘event’ and the video shows an over reaction by a Paul supporter. Nothing more, nothing less.
Oh my, the perils of Lauren Valle all those bad, bad conservatives. Why waste time trying to agitate people at FA? Make yourself useful, trot after this poor thing, bail her out of the mess she made for herself in Lousiana and whereever and whenever else. Let us know how it works out, life just might get interesting, I’m sure the nutcase’s stunts will be getting bigger and bigger and you’ll have a front row seat. 🙄
Those guys in Kentucky, once and done, with her it will be one thing after another. Enjoy!
@johngalt: I understand your feelings, but, in my opinion, the following statement is a very good slogan, but far removed from reality:
The atmosphere the liberals/progressives are promoting is one of the government will provide everything for you. Cradle to grave
The above is the literal definition of communism. No one believes in that anymore, not even Fidel Castro.
The USA is the most Darwinian of the Western Democracies. I think that this is a good thing.
Yes, there are honest differences of opinion on how much of a safety net the government should provide. You are sharp of mind and probably able bodied. Some people are neither. Should they be left to beg on the streets? Should a person, hit by a car but without health insurance, just be taken off the streets, to bleed by himself and care for himself? At a certain level, I think that most people do believe in a safety net. We argue over how big this safety net should be, just as we argue over which wars are worth fighting.
Democracy is the worst form of government, save for all the other forms of government. We’ve got a constitution; we’ve got laws. We’ve got a process. At a certain stage, decisions are made, under the law. And the government spends money.
The question comes down to this: do we pay for what our government spends, even as we work to try and have it spend more wisely in the future, or do we borrow the money to pay for the spending, and leave it to those who follow us to pay off the debts which were incurred by the government we elected?
The proven method of reducing debt is raising taxes. What doesn’t work to reduce debt is cutting taxes. I like what the UK just did: combination of cutting spending and raising taxes. But hard choices/tough decisions can be made in a parliamentary democracy (where the majority is led by the Prime minister and where supermajorities are not required), but are unfortunately tough to achieve in our form of government, where both parties are focused on scoring political points and where both parties have effective veto power.
I actually have some hope in the bipartisan commission, which may provide both parties with the necessary political cover to actually make some tough decisions and come up with a combination of spending cuts and tax increases to actually solve the problem. This is what Clinton and the GOP did so well, together, in the 1990s. Spending cuts (e.g. welfare reform) coupled with tax increases. It produced budget surpluses which would have endured, absent the ill-advised tax cuts of 2001 and 2003.
Missy My sincere apologies for aggitating the folks at F.A.In the future I’ll certainly make a greater effort to toe the company line.
As mentioned before I’ve learned much good about the Conservative Movement from authors like Aye and Mata and I respect O.T.2 and Patvann (go Giants) for their service to country.
No need for apologies, I said “trying to” your attempts failed, also, I’ve been around here for some time and am unaware of any “company line.” Guess we will have to check with Curt on that one.
Nan G
13 years ago
In a little reported move, the Chicago Climate Exchange (CCX) is ending carbon trading this year — the very purpose for which it was founded.
Outside of two reports, the U.S. media has ignored the demise of the only voluntary U.S. effort at carbon trading.
The ECX remains open to accomodate the Kyoto Protocol-required carbon trading among EU nations.
The sale of CCX to ICE allowed climateers like Al Gore’s Generation Investment Management and Goldman Sachs to cash out of investments in CCX.
At its founding in November 2000, some estimated that the size of CCX’s carbon trading market could reach $500 billion.
The Arizona Daily Star is reporting that the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has overturned Arizona’s requirement that people show proof of citizenship to register to vote.
This can go to the Supreme Court, but not in time for this election.
Old Trooper 2
13 years ago
Update: Rand Paul Supporter Apologizes for Scuffle Outside Debate
LEXINGTON, Ky. — The volunteer
with Rand Paul’s Republican U.S. Senate campaign who stepped on the head of a liberal activist and pinned her face to the concrete said Tuesday the scuffle was not as bad as it looked on video and blamed police for not intervening.
“I’m sorry that it came to that, and I apologize if it appeared overly forceful, but I was concerned about Rand’s safety,” Profitt told The Associated Press.
A judge will decide whether Profitt should face criminal charges.
Lauren Valle, the 23-year-old activist with the group MoveOn.org, said her face was swollen and her neck and shoulder were sore after she was wrestled to the ground by Paul supporters Monday night before a debate between the tea party favorite and Democrat Jack Conway.
Valle was roughed up as she tried to give Paul a fake “employee of the month” award. She told police she was assaulted while trying to take a picture with Paul.
The race is one of the most closely watched and hotly contested in the midterm elections.
“I think that this is an extreme example of the kinds of sentiments that people are feeling in many races across the country,” Valle said. “I think that tension is incredibly high.”
Paul’s campaign dropped Profitt as campaign coordinator in Bourbon County in central Kentucky and banned him from future events.
Lexington
Division of Police spokeswoman Sherelle Roberts said Tuesday that officers will deliver a summons to Profitt to appear in court. A judge will determine whether to proceed with an assault case
Any doubts about the ‘staged’ event now? It was staged and went ugly.
Stupid + Stupid always = Stupid.
Hard Right
13 years ago
No shock there Nan. there is a reason they are the most overturned court in the land. Also not surprised they timed it to allow vote fraud for the dems.
Larry, you can throw out all the junk science articles you want, but here is the issue:
If you suddenly double what you are taking in, but quadruple your spending beyond that, the debt goes up!
If you cut taxes then spend way beyond what you bring in, THAT IS WHAT DRIVES UP DEBT! This is so basic. Am I using words too big for you? Seriously!
So stop with the long posts because they aren’t worth the bytes they use. You have a habit of denying reality and your word here carries no weight where politics are concerned.
Remember folks Larry thinks:
Obama is a moderate who is governing from the center
His picks for govt. positions are moderates
He thought the economy would bounce back in less than a year (back in 2008) and the GOP would pay for talking down the economy.
Has called obama a political genius
That obama care is a good idea for the most part
Tax cuts are to be avoided at all costs
The CRA had NOTHING to do with the mortgage/housing market crash
B-Rob
13 years ago
Old Trooper, do you actually call that an apology?
“I was concerned for Rand Paul’s safety, which is why I teamed up with another man to attack a woman carrying a sign and stomped on her head.”
She had a sign, not a knife or a gun! A sign! And this chickensh*t excuse for a man stomped on her head . . . as her head is on a curb? W.t.f.? Was he watching “American History X” and decided to see if he could do Edward Norton’s role?
And how does one “stage” and assault by two wingnuts, Troop? They could have ignored her. After all, she is a small female wearing glasses! Instead, they grab her, throw her to the ground, then stomp on her head, causing a concussion! They are lucky she did not get a skull fracture. Over what? A friggin sign!
But you call it “staged” as if it is her fault that they attacked her! Maybe you come from the Ginni Thomas school of thought, where the injured party is supposed to apologize for their injuries. Yeah . . . that woman should apologize for almost spraining his ankle while he tread on her skull. Nice . . . .
Old Trooper 2
13 years ago
Subject: VETERAN’S DAY OFFERS (UNCLASSIFIED)
I just received this and thought I’d share it with you all.
For those who are veterans, thank you for your service. Have a
Great Veteran’s Day and I hope you’ll be able to take advantage of some
of the offers listed below. For those who haven’t had the opportunity to
serve our nation in uniform, I thank and salute you for your service as
civil servants and contractors. For all, thank those veterans you know
and pass these offers along so others can take advantage of them. Also
consider patronizing these businesses that have leaned forward and
chosen to recognize our nation’s defenders.
************************************
THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SERVICE!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Restaurant Freebies
Applebee’s Restaurant – Free dinners to veterans throughout the day.
Outback Steakhouse – Free Blooming Onion and beverage.
Golden Corral- Free buffet dinner from 5-9 p.m. on Nov. 16 to anyone who
has ever served in the U.S. military Staff,
Krispy Kreme – One free doughnut of any variety.
UNO Chicago Grill- Free entree or individual pizza with an entree or
pizza purchase of equal or greater value.
Coushatta Casino Resort – The Louisiana casino and resort is offering a
free seven-clans lunch or dinner buffet to veterans or active military.
MarketPlace Grill & Express – Veterans and active-duty military receive
free entrees.
Masala Wok – The Northern Virginian restaurant is offering a free entree
to veterans.
Hy-Vee supermarkets – The mid-western supermarket chain is offering a
free breakfast to veterans.
Abuelo’s Mexican Food Restaurants – All veterans and active-duty
military receive a free entree.
Carolina Burgers & BBQ – In Matthews, NC is offering a free meal to all
service members and veterans.
========================== Retail Freebies
Brides Across America – Provides free wedding gowns to qualified
military brides.
Lowe’s & Home Depot – Extra 10% off to active-duty military members,
National Guard and reserve members, retirees, honorably discharged
veterans and immediate family members.
Sam’s Club – Over 25,000 Hugo canes will be given away to U.S. veterans
in need of mobility assistance. Membership is not required, but supplies
are limited, so check with your local store.
Amazon.com – Free “Veterans Day Honor” MP3 album download. The album
includes 12 songs by The Bands and Ensembles of the U.S. Armed Forces.
Cabela’s Outdoor Store – Offers their employee discount to all veterans,
active-duty military and reserves, law enforcement, fire and EMS
personnel Nov. 11-12. Discounts vary from 5% to 50%, depending on the
item.
Build-a-Bear Workshop – Members of the armed services including the
Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, Coast Guard, and Reserve Officer
Training Corps, will receive a 20% discount Nov. 11-15 on any one
transaction at Build-A-Bear Workshop.
Dollar General – 10% discount for all veterans, active-duty military,
National Guard and reserve and their immediate families.
Fashion Bug – 20% off all plus-size and misses clothing purchases with a
copy of military ID or spouse’s military ID.
========================== Entertainment Freebies
National parks, forests and monuments – Admission is free to everyone on
Veterans Day.
Knott’s Berry Farm – Free park admission to U.S. armed forces personnel
and a guest during Veteran’s Month, November 1-26.
Colonial Williamsburg – Free admission Nov. 6-11 for active-duty
military, guard and reservists, retirees, veterans and their dependents.
San Jacinto Museum of History – Free visits to the Observation Deck,
theatre, and special exhibit for veterans, active duty military
personnel, and their families.
Historic Jamestown – Free admission to veterans, current Armed Forces
members and their family members.
Battleship Cove – Free admission and a special ceremony for veterans,
active, duty and reservists.
Vicksburg National Military Park – Free admission for all.
Birmingham Museum of Art – Free admission to the ticketed event “Life
and Liberty” on Nov. 10-11 for veterans and active military.
Vulcan Park and Museum- In Birmingham, Alabama is offering discounted
admission through November to the park and museum.
Greenbay (WI) New Zoo – Free admission to veterans and their families.
Central Florida Zoo – Free admission to the Sanford, Florida zoo with
proper ID.
Strategic Air & Space Museum- Free admission for veterans Nov. 11-14 to
the Ashland, Neb. museum.
National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum – in Oklahoma City offers free
admission to veterans and five guests from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. on Veterans
Day.
Natural Elements Spa & Salon – In Chesapeake, Virginia, will provide
free services from 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. to both active duty and retired
military
@ B-Rob, Nope. I call it a poorly conceived excuse but I will let the Court determine the basis of charges to be filed and not resort to the assumptions, juvenile name calling and general mischief that characterizes your commentary on the matter. You are familiar with Court proceedings, I am led to believe, so you can get off your soap box. You never fail to amaze me.
Hard Right
13 years ago
Braindead, a few things.
1) She was not “thrown” to the ground.
2) Another article has her REFUSING medical treatment. A concussion eh? (Reading KOS or media matters again?).
3) On the Conservative sites I have been to they are universally condemning the stomper and saying he needs to be charged with assault.
A conway supporter deliberately stepped on a Rand suppoerter’s foot. She had recently had surgery and was wearing a surgical boot and it caused her incision to tear open.
BTW, google Kenneth Gladney while you are at it troll.
Nan G
13 years ago
Old Trooper 2
125Reply to this comment
Thanks for that.
I might add that, at least at our local PF Chang’s men in uniform never pay.
I have seen it a dozen times at least.
Also at one of our local Hooters same thing.
Sometimes it is that the tab is picked up by fellow patrons (like hubby and me) but other times I think it is the management.
Thumb’s up!
Missy
13 years ago
Oh no, not Babs too!
Same-o, same-o stuff, kind of a mix of Rangel and Dodd, sweetheart deals with Countrywide, failure to report a million dollar property…. cept she’s the chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Ethics, might make it a bit easier on her. 🙄
In a breaking development that may affect the close California Senate race, Pajamas Media has learned The Foundation for Ethics in Public Service sent a letter to Eric Holder last Thursday requesting the attorney general “begin an investigation to determine whether United States Senator Barbara Boxer violated any criminal laws or should be liable for any civil penalty for failure to disclose real property on her Personal Financial Disclosure Reports between 2002 and 2010.”she only forgot what, eight times?
The Foundation for Ethics in Public Service is a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization “that seeks to bring a new level of transparency, accountability and integrity to all levels of government in the United States.” Boxer is the chair of the Senate Select Committee on Ethics.
The specific property FEPS is referring to is an Oakland, California, home valued at over a million dollars and co-owned by Boxer, her husband Stewart, their son Douglas, and his wife Amy. The letter to Holder reads in part:
I just watched the video again and can see the man who tried to keep her on the ground was pushing on her left shoulder.
His heel also touched her head.
I thought it was weird what she said about the Rand Paul people recognizing her, therefore the disguise.
But they recognized her that night even in a wig.
BTW, for a real laugh see what she was backing…..a Move-on construct called ”Republicorp.”
@ Nan G, over the years I have bought meals, adult beverages and more than a few cab rides for Folks in Uniform and always considered it to be too little gratitude shown to those that when called upon never let US down.
I recall a turnout in the middle of the night at Bangor, Maine for a plane load of returnees from Iraq that warmed my heart. Grandpas and Grandmas that showed up in the dark of a new day to welcome some Troopers that they did not know back to the USA in very keen fashion. I was one
of them and that memory is a fond one for me. 😀
B-Rob
13 years ago
Hard Right —
She was NOT thrown to the ground and his foot was not on her head either? OK . . . I see the delusions on the right don’t even permit you to acknowledge the obvious.
@hard right (#123): What you offer are simply unfounded assertions and wishful thinking. What I provided was not “junk science,” but rather hard facts, and my interpretation of these facts is supported by the unanimous opinion of conservative economists, whom I also cited. Kindly cite data, along with expert interpretation of data, and then we can actually have an intelligent discussion.
Remember folks Larry thinks:
Obama is a moderate who is governing from the center
He’s demonstrably a moderate Democrat. He gets as much crap from the Left as he gets from the Right. Name the three most “socialist” policies he’s pursued. I’ve asked you that several times, and you don’t answer. When you tell me precisely what you consider to be socialist policies, then we can actually have an intelligent discussion.
His picks for govt. positions are moderates
Number one, I never actually said the above. But, number two, yes, his picks for government positions have generally been entirely mainstream managers, politicians, and judges.
He thought the economy would bounce back in less than a year (back in 2008) and the GOP would pay for talking down the economy.
Good grief! He inherited an economy which was shedding 1,000,000 jobs a month (n.b. actually 730,000 then 700,000 the 800,000 in the final three months of the Bush Presidency) and which was on the cusp of descending into the Great Depression, v. 2.0. Unemployment was 7.8% the day he took office and was above 8% before the first dollar of “stimulus” was spent. We’ve now had 9 consecutive months of private sector employment growth and our GDP is again growing and there is no longer a danger of a double dip recession. Yes, the GOP has been remarkably effective in making it appear that he is to blame for running up a huge debt (as I explained, and supported with actual data, he’s responsible for a 1.7% increase in the debt to GDP ratio, as opposed to 50% for George W Bush, but the math skills of the average American voter are not up to the level of understanding this).
Has called obama a political genius
This is demonstrably true, particularly if he is as bad as you say he is. Who is sitting in the Oval Office? Who was the first President to pass general health care reform in 100 years of trying? Who got financial reform done? Who got his own financial rescue plan passed?
That obama care is a good idea for the most part
Yes, although it wasn’t Obama’s original idea. The politicians who first described the general model for what would later be called “Obamacare” were GOP Senators Grassley and Dole and, later, Massachusetts Governor Romney.
Tax cuts are to be avoided at all costs
I never said that. Kennedy’s cut of the marginal tax rate from 91% to 70% was a good idea. Getting the marginal rate below 50% was another good idea. But there is a point at which the tax losses to the treasury blow up the debt so badly that it outdoes the potential good to the economy. Cutting the marginal rate from 39% to 35% was, indeed, a bad idea, as was gutting the inheritance tax, thereby creating a “to the manor born,” British-style class society in America and further adding to the deficit.
The CRA had NOTHING to do with the mortgage/housing market crash
Yes, THE CRA HAD NOTHING to do with the mortgage/housing market crash!
At last, we agree on SOMETHING.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
Hard Right
13 years ago
Sorry Braindead, I watched the video AND I know that your talking points are from the fringe left websites.
Love how you keep adding injuries she didn’t have before to what happened to her.
BTW, why do you think women aren’t a threat? Chauvinism perhaps? Some widdle woman can’t hurt the bigger, stronger, smarter man? Women are just too inferior to achieve something like an assassination/assault?
Prior to the Kentucky Senate debate in Paducah last night, a woman with a history of politically-inspired vandalism who was dressed in disguise approached Rand Paul to present him with a Move-On.org “award,” and was pulled to the ground by Paul supporters, one of whom needlessly pushed her back to the ground momentarily with his foot.
The police can and should review the videos to see if a crime was committed, and fortunately the woman was not seriously injured (unlike a Paul supporter who was injured by Jack Conway supporters in an unrelated incident). The Paul campaign immediately criticized the violence on both sides.
Yet the left-wing blogosphere is engaged in hyperbole by asserting that the woman was “brutally attacked” by “Brownshirts” and extrapolating the incident into a wider indictment of (take your pick) Rand Paul’s campaign and/or the Tea Party movement.
As I have documented dozens of times before, the left-blogosphere has concocted allegations against Tea Party members for much of the past year in an effort to paint opponents of Democrats as extremist and violent. Really for the first time, they have an incident they can blow out of proportion for political purposes.
Unfortunately, people being pushed to the ground while approaching a candidate is not new. Just ask John McCormack who was thrown to the ground by a Martha Coakley campaign staffer last January when McCormack would not stop asking questions (image right).
Indeed, the mainstream media has refused even to report about how Congressman Maurice Hinchey recently assaulted a reporter who was asking questions about Hinchey’s possible conflicts of interest.
There is tension in the air. People need to step back, on both sides, and not try to take an isolated incident to create a greater political pretext.
Update: Soccer Dad reminds me of the attack on a Bobby Jindal supporter, and of course, there was the Kenneth Gladney incident.
——————————————–
I am content to laugh at the speculation on this incident and allow the Courts to do their Due Process role. Trying the case here without benefit of evidence or witnesses is patently absurd to say the least. Speculation on steroids.
Hard Right
13 years ago
Larry, thanks for proving that you deserve to be called Delusional Larry.
Larry, Mata gave you a list of his socialist policies. You just forgot to address that eh?
Ummm, yes you did say his picks would be moderates. Again, you seem to have amnesia when things aren’t in your favor. It’s also pretty clear that MOST of his picks aren’t moderates. Well, clear to everyone that isn’t a liberal o-bot like yourself.
Obama is a political genius because he managed to get elected? Because he had a supermajority majority in Congress that allowed him to JUST BARELY get his agenda thru? You sure set the bar low for genius status.
Obama care will drive up the debt (which you are soooo concerned about) reduce quality of care, while making it LESS affordable. You think that’s a good thing?
Despite mountains of proof, you pretend the CRA had nothing to do with the mortgage/housing crash. That is seriously delusional.
You see, I understand why you are in denial on that issue. For one, it would put some of the blame on your beloved obama and his role in the debacle. Another reason is that it would indict your demonstrated love of social engineering and reduce the blame those “evil banks” were responsible for.
Hard Right
13 years ago
For those who want to see how reducing the tax rate can be good and the economists agree:
In the Coakley incident, a male campaign worker pushed a reporter against a railing. The reporter fell on the railing, hit the ground, then was helped up by the guy who pushed him. He suffered torn pants. It’s right here:
In Paducah, two men attacked a woman, pushed her to the ground and one of them stepped on her head. She suffered a concussion and a sprained shoulder.
If you cannot figure out why these two incidents are nowhere near comparable, there is nothing I can say to explain why one (two guys injuring a woman) is MUCH worse than the other (one guy tearing another guy’s pants).
I KNEW you cons would try to minimize your side’s responsibility. I KNEW you would try to draw a false equivalence. But I am shocked that you stooped below the level I thought you would.
I’ll answer Mata in the future. She’s on sabbatical and I want to be sure she’ll have the opportunity to offer timely rejoinders to my responses.
In the prior discussions on the CRA, I provided reams of data, as well as analyses of experts.
Total financial losses from CRA loans were close to 1% of the total bad loans, in terms of dollars. Most of the subprimes were re-finances, investment properties, vacation homes. CRA participating banks outperformed CRA non-participating banks. Not a single manager/official of a failed bank has ever blamed the CRA for their bank failure. That’s a very short summary. Also, the majority of the people sold subprimes would have qualified for low fixed rate loans. They were steered into the subprime adjustables with low teaser rates by loan brokers operating on commission.
What caused the financial crisis was the following cascade:
Too much capital, with no place to go, as a result of the Bush tax cuts and Fed monetary policy, leading to T bill rates of 1% or less. This demand caused by a glut of cash searching for investment yield led to a need for new financial instruments, with a stampede toward securitized mortgages, necessitating investment insurance, in the form of unregulated credit default swaps. When the real estate bubble collapsed (which also had nothing whatsoever to do with the CRA), the whole house of cards came down.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
Old Trooper 2
13 years ago
On Budget Cuts and Sacrifice:
Dem Senator in Standoff With DOD: No Info? No Nominees
(Before reading, my humble opinion, JFCOM is duplication of effort, is not necessary and just not affordable under the current fiscal situation. It is just Jobs in Webb’s bailwick plain and simple.)
Fed up with what he says is a lack of answers from the Pentagon [1] about its decision to shutter Joint Forces Command in Norfolk, Va, a critical jobs lifeline to that military-centric area of the state, Sen. Jim Webb, D-Va, is taking his frustration to the next level — to block DOD nominees and promotions until he gets what he wants.
“This failure to respond to a request for basic information that should be readily available is indicative of the lack of cooperation that has characterized the proposal to close” JFCOM, Webb wrote in a letter Monday [2] to Defense Secretary Robert Gates [3], adding, “For this reason, I will place a hold on all Department of Defense civilian and flag/general officer nominations until such time as my request for information is satisfied.”
A senior Democratic aide for the Senate Armed Services Committee said two civilians are currently being held up by members other than Webb, but the Virginia senator’s intention to hold all nominees would effectively block these if the current objections were to be resolved. Those affected, according to the aide: Solomon Watson to be the Army General Counsel and Jonathan Woodson to be Assistant Secretary of Defense for Health Affairs.
Webb, a member of the Armed Services panel and former Navy Secretary, has been angry since Gates made the announcement in August, following an advisory board’s recommendation, and said in a release from his office at the time that he was “disappointed that the White House [4] did not consult with members of the Virginia delegation prior to this announcement.”
Webb, according to Monday’s letter, is seeking information “on current and historical staff levels in the Office of the Secretary of Defense,” as well as, “a historical comparison of the size of selected major headquarters staffs in the Department of Defense and military departments.”
The Pentagon did not immediately respond to questions from Fox about why it has not yet provided the senator with the information he has requested.
“The culture of endless money that has taken hold must be replaced by a culture of savings and restraint,” Gates said in August, but the dissolution of JFCOM in Norfolk and surrounding areas would stand to throw as many as 6,000 people into the unemployment line in an already depressed region, though the secretary did indicate that some people could be reassigned.
“Any decision of this magnitude should have followed the Base Realignment and Closure process (BRAC), which would have enabled appropriate participation by stakeholders as well as consideration of the impact on the local community,” Webb admonished in a statement released by his office in August, adding, “The Secretary of Defense claims JFCOM is not subject to the base realignment statutes because it is a work-force reduction rather than a base closure. However, I believe a strong legal case can be made that the base closure statutes are applicable because this involves a reduction of more than 1,000 civilian personnel.”
Indeed, Gates said in August that this was not about the defense budget, rather a “reallocation internally.” In fact, the secretary indicated the savings could mean billions more for the ship-building industry, another major jobs provider in the Hampton Roads area.
“If, as a result of these efforts, I’m able to add a billion or two billion dollars to the Navy’s shipbuilding program of record, Virginia may well come out with a lot more jobs than it loses,” Gates said.
And Webb is certainly not alone in his protest of the combatant command closure. Gov. Bob McDonnell, R-Va, joined by the bipartisan House delegation from Hampton Roads, rushed to condemn the Obama Administration as cutting corners on national defense. “It appears as though this administration is cutting investments in national defense in order to pay for massive new social programs,” McDonnell said.
The closure sent ripples through the hard-fought House campaign in the Norfolk area. Democratic freshman incumbent Rep. Glenn Nye, in whose district JFCOM is located, immediately condemned Gates’ decision as “short-sighted and without merit” while standing alongside McDonnell, but his GOP opponent, Scott Rigell, pounced anyway, blaming Nye for the base’s likely demise. “Once again, our region is on the verge of losing a major military asset, and our freshman incumbent has done little to stop such a move. Hampton Roads and Eastern Shore families cannot afford another two years of Glenn Nye and his lack of leadership on jobs and growing our economy,” Rigell said in a statement following the Gates’ announcement.
The Pentagon’s decision has been the subject of heated debate fodder and television ads in the race ever since.
This is NOT money to be saved, it is just damage control on irresponsible spending. Where will the ‘savings’ go? Nowhere.
B-Rob HOW dare you pronounce the CONSERVATIVES guilty by association when they
said how bad this has been done, and you also wrote lines on me that I never pronounce,
THIS is your game of showing outrage here when you never mention your disagreement on attacks by the union guys on one tea party person which was badly beaten,
SO don’t give us that bulshit of yours to attack the CONSERVATIVES by DEFAMING their
CARACTER; IT surely wont work here, as It is a usual PATTERN of your behavior. and IT is SICKENING
B-Rob
13 years ago
@ bees —
I am not impugning anyones character; I am merely attacking those cons who are defending the two a-holes who attacked a woman and stepped on her head. If you in anyway excuse, condone or minimize that, then you are saying more about your own conservative “character” than I ever could.
Old Trooper 2
13 years ago
@ B-Rob, your “outrage” on the Paducah incident reminds me of the old story of what happens to dogs that chase cars and catch them. It never works out that swell for the dog. Activists assume a certain risk, like that fictional dog that would have been better off staying in his/her own front yard.
OLD TROOPER 2: hi, why is it the MILITARIES has to be sacrificed and reduce their number when they are the one paying the ultimate SACRIFICE in combat, in order to save money for
the PET PROJECT of the many AGENCYS IN GOVERNMENT.
THIS is an UNBALANCE for the COUNTRY of the size of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
bye
Hard Right
13 years ago
Hard Right –
In the Coakley incident, a male campaign worker pushed a reporter against a railing. The reporter fell on the railing, hit the ground, then was helped up by the guy who pushed him. He suffered torn pants. It’s right here:
In Paducah, two men attacked a woman, pushed her to the ground and one of them stepped on her head. She suffered a concussion and a sprained shoulder.
If you cannot figure out why these two incidents are nowhere near comparable, there is nothing I can say to explain why one (two guys injuring a woman) is MUCH worse than the other (one guy tearing another guy’s pants).
I KNEW you cons would try to minimize your side’s responsibility. I KNEW you would try to draw a false equivalence. But I am shocked that you stooped below the level I thought you would.
Lie much braindead? Where did I mention the Martha Coakley incident? Nowhere.
The Move On activist wasn’t attacked. Here’s is what really happened based on the video and reports immediately afterwards. An unknown woman clearly in disguise rushes a Congressional candidate. She was stopped, then non-violently pulled to the ground by a Rand supporter. She landed mostly ON the Rand supporter. Originally she suffered NO injuries and refused medical care. She DID NOT go to the hospital. Below is a link to the video. http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/204603.php
Elsewhere I mentioned that Conservatives were condemning and agreeing that the guy who put her foot on her should be charged with assault. Minimizing? I don’t think so. People are pointing out the selective outrage and hypocrisy of the left, something you desperately want us to ignore. We are simply stating the facts, unlike yourself. Everyone who watches the vido can see there is no way she sufferred a sprained neck or shoulder, or even a concussion.
No the only dishonest person troll here is you. You take your talking points from the likes of Huffpo, KOS, and DUNG and regurgitate them like a parrot. You have ZERO credibility.
Old Trooper 2
13 years ago
@ Bees, JFCOM is a mixture of Military and DOD Civilians, they do not deploy anywhere and are duplication of effort. They are not a critical part of Defense. They are what I refer to as excess so on a list of critical Defense organizations, they are low on the scale.
I read all of your links. The first was a GOP House commissioned analysis from 1996 which looked only at raw revenues and didn’t look at debt accumulation. Revenues grow because of: (1) population growth, (2) inflation, and (3) GDP growth. Your sources were 80% conservative blogs or foundations. That’s OK, but it does give me license to quote a liberal economist, in rebuttal:
For the econowonks out there: business cycles are an issue here — revenue growth from trough to peak will look better than the reverse. Unfortunately, business cycles don’t correspond to administrations. But looking at revenue changes peak to peak is still revealing. So here’s the annual rate of growth of real revenue per capita over some cycles:
1973-1979: 2.7%
1979-1990: 1.8%
1990-2000: 3.2%
2000-2007 (probable peak): approximately zero
The second link was simply assertion, with no data and no references.
The fourth and fifth had to do with what economists think should be done right now, as we are recovering from a near-death-experience economic meltdown. They are advocating more Keynesian stimulus (i.e. borrowing more money to continue to finance a continuation of the Bush tax cuts), as opposed to taking immediate measures to reduce the deficit (i.e. allowing the tax cuts to expire, as Greenspan and others advocate). These particular citations have nothing at all to do with the issue of whether tax cuts ever pay for themselves (which they most certainly do not, as supported by data and references I provided previously).
This leaves the third reference (the Heritage Foundation analysis).
Let’s look at the first comment/critique of the analysis (appearing at the end of the article you linked):
Kevin H, College Park, MD on September 21st, 2010 at 11:15am said:
100% of the long term deficits are from spending? Incredibly misinformed argument. The bulk of the spending increase on deficit over last 2 years are temporary provisions. In the long-term fiscal picture, the recovery package will barely be a speck of dust of the entire bundle of deficits and debts.
Just the wars and the bush tax cuts alone – two major initiatives of the Bush administration – will add $7 trillion to the debt from 2010-2019. This does not include trillions associated with Medicare Part D.
The fact is, there was a projected surplus of 6 $trillion when Bush and Republicans took over WH and Congress. Heritage cites this number over and over in their 2001 papers as reason we can have tax cuts – because deficits don’t matter (can you believe Heritage was making this argument?)
Gotta attend to a big project relating to my day job. Won’t be able to rejoin the discussion until the weekend. Have fun while I’m gone!
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
Nan G
13 years ago
Nevada voting machines automatically checking Harry Reid’s name; voting machine technicians are SEIU members
The copy of the contract between Clark County and the SEIU is at the link above.
Maybe we’d be better served going back to paper ballots marked by pencil or by pushing a chad out.
Just sayin’.
Hard Right
13 years ago
And Larry, your sources were as biased as you accuse mine of being. So you’ll excuse me if I don’t agree with you on your previous post or the loon krugman on your most recent one.
You pick a comment on the article as proof you are right? Riiiiight.
@ johngalt
Yep, I agree. Taking her down to the ground to subdue her until security or the police could arrive is one thing. The man that placed his foot on her head and shoulders should be prosecuted fully.
ms bees If you didn’t watch the video why would you comment on it?
Suggest you watch it and let us know what you think. Is that unreasonable?
As to your constant name calling(rodents etc.) I CONTINUE TO LAUGH.
Some have such short memories.
But mine are long.
RFK had just won the California Democratic Primary.
I was in the ballroom in 1968 when RFK was killed by Sirhan Sirhan.
We heard (and it was later confirmed) that Rosie Greer, Rafer Johnson and several others WRESTLED with Sirhan Sirhan until they got the gun and had him DOWN.
I doubt anyone would have 2nd-guessed that move.
I only wished it could have taken place when the gun was first taken out instead of after shots were fired.
rich wheeler, just read my comment to B-rob and you , that will answered it.
AS for rodents behavior, YOU must admit both of your’s is similar to it.
because the 2 of you can get so desperatly low in attacking a person on the other side of your
party,
@danang
You wrote:
That’s precisely what happened! But — and how can I get you to understand this — the debt ratio DOUBLED because of Reagan’s tax cuts — after having fallen for 35 years under both Republican and Democratic administrations. I provided a citation for my (absolutely true) statement that even conservative economists agree that tax cuts have NEVER paid for themselves! Of course tax revenues increase. They always increase, as the GDP increases, which it always does, save for short blips because of temporary recessions.
Don’t you understand that when you cut taxes and pay for the tax cuts by borrowing money that this is a Keynesian stimulus no less than when you increase spending and pay for the spending by borrowing money? Ronald Reagan borrowed massive amounts of money to pay for his massive tax cuts. He doubled the debt ratio. George W Bush borrowed massive amounts of money to pay for his massive tax cuts and he increased the debt rato by 50%. The GOP proposed a 500 billion dollar Keynesian stimulus. Bush and Paulson were the authors of the 700 billion bank bailout. Cheney advised Bush to bail out GM and Chrysler, and the Bush administration gave GM and Chrysler 17 billion in the last two month of the Bush administration. The taxpayers will never get back this 17 billion, but they are likely to recover the follow-on money which Obama invested in GM and Chrysler
Obama’s Keynesian stimulus was $250 billion more than proposed by the GOP. The debt ratio has risen 10% on Obama’s watch, so far, but only a small portion of this is attributable to Obama’s “extra” 250 billion dollar stimulus (over the 500 billion proposed by the GOP). 250 billion divided by 14 trillion = a 1.7% increase in the debt ratio attributable to Obama-originated policies, as opposed to a 50% increase for GWB and a 200% increase for Ronald Reagan and a DECREASE for every other post WWII President! But the number one drumbeat issue for the GOP this election is the “generational theft” of Obama’s policies and his increasing debt!
Debtor, heal thyself. Rather than talking vaguely about hypothetical 1.7 trillion dollar spending cuts which will never happen, just rescind the ill-advised Bush tax cut (as advocated by Alan Greenspan, among others) and you’ll increase tax revenues by 1.7 trillion and essentially solve the debt problem by the year 2015.
The Greatest Generation taxed themselves (91% marginal tax rate! confiscatory estate taxes!) to pay off their debts and they paid them off. Today’s conservatives claim to love their country, but they aren’t willing to pay for it. I agree with Joe Biden — it’s patriotic to pay your own way.
Bringing the tax rates back to where they were in the 90s is socialism? By the way, someone else was trumpeting Britain’s new austerity program, but they failed to note that Britain started out with a much more heavily bloated government bureaucracy than exists in the USA AND Britain’s newly elected conservative government ALSO RAISED THE VAT (national sales tax) from 17.5% to 20%.
By the way, someone proposed an interesting federal budget in an earlier comment (#87), but left out the NIH and the FDA.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
@Nan G:
How horrifying to have been there, that will never leave you.
We also have Reagan’s assassination attempt, Ford’s and Lennon’s murder etched in our long memories, all approached by strangers in a crowd.
These activist clowns have been playing fast and loose for some time with their own safety, no reason to let our guard down because they want to be stupid.
There was no reason for the man to put his foot on her, but the other has come forward, it won’t be long before the foot guy is found and questioned, no excuse for his actions.
Re the video. I cannot excuse the conduct of the individual that performed the ‘stomp’ as it was unnecessary. Why a resident of Flamouth, Mass was in attendance there with a videographer johnny on the spot is open to question.
Republicorp? I smell a rat here. Never heard of it and doubt if it exists. Why does this smell like an agitator trying to pull a cheap stunt and a Paul supporter over reacting? That appears to be all it is
and folks that go looking for trouble can find it in Falmouth Mass and don’t have to go to Kentucky or anywhere else to find it.
Interesting commentary on the staged You Tube Video and it is great to see that chivalry is not dead here at FA, but this was a cheap political stunt that went bad and it would be best left at that.
The Paul Supporter over reacted, the Gal from Falmouth was looking to ‘create’ a political media event and got one. Lets let it go at that. What tickles me is the over reaction here at FA on this incident. A molehill has become a larger one and no mountain here folks. Some folks are easily fooled but some background is necessary on the incident before I comment.
Missy, I was in the ballroom, not the kitchen area where the shots were fired.
But the feeling was eerily similar on 9-11-01.
I remember thinking that very fact: this feels the same as that night in 1968.
I remember it growing worse and worse.
Both times.
It’s like at first you just cannot wrap your mind around it, then, slowly, you do….and it is worse than you thought it could ever be.
Forgetting the attribution of that comment to Biden for a minute, paying one’s own way does not entail raping the wallets of hard-working Americans to pay back your campaign contributors. Why do you think there is all the angst amongst the TEA Party crowd? How much of the stimulus was specifically directed to groups that supported the Democrats in 06′ and 08′?
Why should I, who work hard to make my own ends meet, have to pay for someone else’s mistake in taking on a bigger mortgage than they could handle? That isn’t paying one’s own way. That is becoming servile to the state.
@ Missy, I concur.
@ rich wheeler, if you could not determine that the video was a staged event that went down ugly, I would be surprised. I thought that you were more observant than that. Is it a game changer? Nope. Just an indication of how overzealous the politics have become in this election. Common sense is an uncommon commodity for activism these days. It was lacking at this event on both sides.
Isn’t it ironic that some can say: I agree with Joe Biden — it’s patriotic to pay your own way…..
When the fact of the matter is, people were given opportunities to pay EXTRA on their federal and even state taxes but virtually no one does it? Rich or not!
In 2008 Joe actually said this:
“We want to take money and put it back in the pocket of middle-class people. It’s time (for the well-off) to be patriotic. Time to jump in, time to be part of the deal, time to help get America out of the rut.””
Oddly he was referring to Obama’s plan to raise taxes on all those making over $250,000/year.
BUT look who is backing off that now…..
“Here’s the bottom line we have: I don’t have any problem with wealthy people getting a tax cut. These are good guys,” Biden said!
@johngalt: More than half the people who took out subprime loans qualified for low rate fixed mortgages, but were steered into the subprimes by mortgage brokers, working on commission, fueled by a worldwide capital glut, in a financial market where T Bills were paying essentially zero, and money had nowhere to go. And who decided to bail out buyers of all those securitized mortgages and sellers of credit default swaps? Paulson and Bush, a policy continued by Geithner and Obama. True bipartisanship.
Our government made the decision to bail out Wall Street. Most people now think that this was a good decision. Paulson said that, absent this action, unemployment now would be at 25%. But — good decision or bad, it was our government which spent the money and we can either decide to pay for this ourselves or we can pass on the debt to future generations. I don’t happen to think that the Iraq War was a particularly good expenditure of government funds, but my government did this in my time and I am responsible for this debt, not future generations.
And, once again, let’s keep things in perspective. For the greater portion of my life, marginal tax rates were 91%, then 70% and capital gains taxes were 48%. The nation did just fine. All it would take to solve virtually all of the current financial ills would be to bring back tax rates to where they were in the 1990s (39% marginal tax rate). And we whine as if we are being gored by an ox.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
OT2 Are you saying Paul’s opponent hired that fat red neck to put his size 13 boot on that woman’s throat? If that proves true I’ll be the first to apologize,
Larry
I understand everything you have posted.
Still, the simple question is: Why should I pay for someone else’s mistakes? That is the simple crux of the argument many in the conservative camp are wondering. Where is the responsibility to oneself? With the progressives, it is non-existent. The belief that someone “owes” them something is what drives their calls for more, more, more from the government. I work hard, pay my own way in life, and ask little of any government other than decent roads to drive on and fire and police protection when needed, and military power to protect my freedoms. The atmosphere the liberals/progressives are promoting is one of the government will provide everything for you. Cradle to grave. That, simply put, is placing one in serfdom to the elites in the government.
Whether or not you’ve paid higher taxes in the past has little bearing on today. Spending is out of control, boundaries have been overstepped, and too much of what should be personal control in one’s life has been subjugated to the government. It isn’t that I don’t want to pay anything in taxes, far from it. I just believe in actually paying for what I use from the government, not for others to take it for free.
@ Nope. Why do you conclude that? A size 13? Do you have inside info or just conjecture?
I’d call it a head on collision provoked by activists and it went poorly. Stupid + Stupid = Stupid.
I’d not make that a big deal on a National scale or let it get my blood pressure disturbed. The Paul supporter reacted poorly to provocation. I would not be foolish enough to make any further assumptions as I did not witness the incident. It was a staged and produced ‘media event” that went badly. Bad behavior on both ends and not relative to anything of any real consequence in the Kentucky Congressional Race. It would not sway my vote if I was a Kentucky resident.
I am on Temporary Active Duty dealing with issues of a larger consequence, checked in at FA and noticed the ‘tempest in a teacup’ here and the FA reaction. I only draw conclusions based on things that I have more information on but what a gal from Mass is doing there in the first place is suggestive of some premeditation on her part to stage an ‘event’ and the video shows an over reaction by a Paul supporter. Nothing more, nothing less.
@rich wheeler:
Oh my, the perils of Lauren Valle all those bad, bad conservatives. Why waste time trying to agitate people at FA? Make yourself useful, trot after this poor thing, bail her out of the mess she made for herself in Lousiana and whereever and whenever else. Let us know how it works out, life just might get interesting, I’m sure the nutcase’s stunts will be getting bigger and bigger and you’ll have a front row seat. 🙄
Those guys in Kentucky, once and done, with her it will be one thing after another. Enjoy!
@johngalt: I understand your feelings, but, in my opinion, the following statement is a very good slogan, but far removed from reality:
The above is the literal definition of communism. No one believes in that anymore, not even Fidel Castro.
The USA is the most Darwinian of the Western Democracies. I think that this is a good thing.
Yes, there are honest differences of opinion on how much of a safety net the government should provide. You are sharp of mind and probably able bodied. Some people are neither. Should they be left to beg on the streets? Should a person, hit by a car but without health insurance, just be taken off the streets, to bleed by himself and care for himself? At a certain level, I think that most people do believe in a safety net. We argue over how big this safety net should be, just as we argue over which wars are worth fighting.
Democracy is the worst form of government, save for all the other forms of government. We’ve got a constitution; we’ve got laws. We’ve got a process. At a certain stage, decisions are made, under the law. And the government spends money.
The question comes down to this: do we pay for what our government spends, even as we work to try and have it spend more wisely in the future, or do we borrow the money to pay for the spending, and leave it to those who follow us to pay off the debts which were incurred by the government we elected?
The proven method of reducing debt is raising taxes. What doesn’t work to reduce debt is cutting taxes. I like what the UK just did: combination of cutting spending and raising taxes. But hard choices/tough decisions can be made in a parliamentary democracy (where the majority is led by the Prime minister and where supermajorities are not required), but are unfortunately tough to achieve in our form of government, where both parties are focused on scoring political points and where both parties have effective veto power.
I actually have some hope in the bipartisan commission, which may provide both parties with the necessary political cover to actually make some tough decisions and come up with a combination of spending cuts and tax increases to actually solve the problem. This is what Clinton and the GOP did so well, together, in the 1990s. Spending cuts (e.g. welfare reform) coupled with tax increases. It produced budget surpluses which would have endured, absent the ill-advised tax cuts of 2001 and 2003.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
Missy My sincere apologies for aggitating the folks at F.A.In the future I’ll certainly make a greater effort to toe the company line.
As mentioned before I’ve learned much good about the Conservative Movement from authors like Aye and Mata and I respect O.T.2 and Patvann (go Giants) for their service to country.
Semper Fi
@rich wheeler:
No need for apologies, I said “trying to” your attempts failed, also, I’ve been around here for some time and am unaware of any “company line.” Guess we will have to check with Curt on that one.
In a little reported move, the Chicago Climate Exchange (CCX) is ending carbon trading this year — the very purpose for which it was founded.
Outside of two reports, the U.S. media has ignored the demise of the only voluntary U.S. effort at carbon trading.
The ECX remains open to accomodate the Kyoto Protocol-required carbon trading among EU nations.
The sale of CCX to ICE allowed climateers like Al Gore’s Generation Investment Management and Goldman Sachs to cash out of investments in CCX.
At its founding in November 2000, some estimated that the size of CCX’s carbon trading market could reach $500 billion.
More here.
The Arizona Daily Star is reporting that the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has overturned Arizona’s requirement that people show proof of citizenship to register to vote.
This can go to the Supreme Court, but not in time for this election.
Update: Rand Paul Supporter Apologizes for Scuffle Outside Debate
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/26/rand-paul-supporter-apologizes-scuffle-outside-debate/
Any doubts about the ‘staged’ event now? It was staged and went ugly.
Stupid + Stupid always = Stupid.
No shock there Nan. there is a reason they are the most overturned court in the land. Also not surprised they timed it to allow vote fraud for the dems.
Larry, you can throw out all the junk science articles you want, but here is the issue:
If you suddenly double what you are taking in, but quadruple your spending beyond that, the debt goes up!
If you cut taxes then spend way beyond what you bring in, THAT IS WHAT DRIVES UP DEBT! This is so basic. Am I using words too big for you? Seriously!
So stop with the long posts because they aren’t worth the bytes they use. You have a habit of denying reality and your word here carries no weight where politics are concerned.
Remember folks Larry thinks:
Obama is a moderate who is governing from the center
His picks for govt. positions are moderates
He thought the economy would bounce back in less than a year (back in 2008) and the GOP would pay for talking down the economy.
Has called obama a political genius
That obama care is a good idea for the most part
Tax cuts are to be avoided at all costs
The CRA had NOTHING to do with the mortgage/housing market crash
Old Trooper, do you actually call that an apology?
“I was concerned for Rand Paul’s safety, which is why I teamed up with another man to attack a woman carrying a sign and stomped on her head.”
She had a sign, not a knife or a gun! A sign! And this chickensh*t excuse for a man stomped on her head . . . as her head is on a curb? W.t.f.? Was he watching “American History X” and decided to see if he could do Edward Norton’s role?
And how does one “stage” and assault by two wingnuts, Troop? They could have ignored her. After all, she is a small female wearing glasses! Instead, they grab her, throw her to the ground, then stomp on her head, causing a concussion! They are lucky she did not get a skull fracture. Over what? A friggin sign!
But you call it “staged” as if it is her fault that they attacked her! Maybe you come from the Ginni Thomas school of thought, where the injured party is supposed to apologize for their injuries. Yeah . . . that woman should apologize for almost spraining his ankle while he tread on her skull. Nice . . . .
Subject: VETERAN’S DAY OFFERS (UNCLASSIFIED)
I just received this and thought I’d share it with you all.
From Me and My Crew, Thanks for Your Service!
@ B-Rob, Nope. I call it a poorly conceived excuse but I will let the Court determine the basis of charges to be filed and not resort to the assumptions, juvenile name calling and general mischief that characterizes your commentary on the matter. You are familiar with Court proceedings, I am led to believe, so you can get off your soap box. You never fail to amaze me.
Braindead, a few things.
1) She was not “thrown” to the ground.
2) Another article has her REFUSING medical treatment. A concussion eh? (Reading KOS or media matters again?).
3) On the Conservative sites I have been to they are universally condemning the stomper and saying he needs to be charged with assault.
A conway supporter deliberately stepped on a Rand suppoerter’s foot. She had recently had surgery and was wearing a surgical boot and it caused her incision to tear open.
BTW, google Kenneth Gladney while you are at it troll.
Old Trooper 2
125Reply to this comment
Thanks for that.
I might add that, at least at our local PF Chang’s men in uniform never pay.
I have seen it a dozen times at least.
Also at one of our local Hooters same thing.
Sometimes it is that the tab is picked up by fellow patrons (like hubby and me) but other times I think it is the management.
Thumb’s up!
Oh no, not Babs too!
Same-o, same-o stuff, kind of a mix of Rangel and Dodd, sweetheart deals with Countrywide, failure to report a million dollar property…. cept she’s the chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Ethics, might make it a bit easier on her. 🙄
http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2010/10/26/foundation-requests-holder-investigate-boxer/?singlepage=true
I just watched the video again and can see the man who tried to keep her on the ground was pushing on her left shoulder.
His heel also touched her head.
I thought it was weird what she said about the Rand Paul people recognizing her, therefore the disguise.
But they recognized her that night even in a wig.
BTW, for a real laugh see what she was backing…..a Move-on construct called ”Republicorp.”
This video by House actress Olivia Wilde is WILD!
Too funny!
@ Nan G, over the years I have bought meals, adult beverages and more than a few cab rides for Folks in Uniform and always considered it to be too little gratitude shown to those that when called upon never let US down.
I recall a turnout in the middle of the night at Bangor, Maine for a plane load of returnees from Iraq that warmed my heart. Grandpas and Grandmas that showed up in the dark of a new day to welcome some Troopers that they did not know back to the USA in very keen fashion. I was one
of them and that memory is a fond one for me. 😀
Hard Right —
She was NOT thrown to the ground and his foot was not on her head either? OK . . . I see the delusions on the right don’t even permit you to acknowledge the obvious.
@hard right (#123): What you offer are simply unfounded assertions and wishful thinking. What I provided was not “junk science,” but rather hard facts, and my interpretation of these facts is supported by the unanimous opinion of conservative economists, whom I also cited. Kindly cite data, along with expert interpretation of data, and then we can actually have an intelligent discussion.
He’s demonstrably a moderate Democrat. He gets as much crap from the Left as he gets from the Right. Name the three most “socialist” policies he’s pursued. I’ve asked you that several times, and you don’t answer. When you tell me precisely what you consider to be socialist policies, then we can actually have an intelligent discussion.
Number one, I never actually said the above. But, number two, yes, his picks for government positions have generally been entirely mainstream managers, politicians, and judges.
Good grief! He inherited an economy which was shedding 1,000,000 jobs a month (n.b. actually 730,000 then 700,000 the 800,000 in the final three months of the Bush Presidency) and which was on the cusp of descending into the Great Depression, v. 2.0. Unemployment was 7.8% the day he took office and was above 8% before the first dollar of “stimulus” was spent. We’ve now had 9 consecutive months of private sector employment growth and our GDP is again growing and there is no longer a danger of a double dip recession. Yes, the GOP has been remarkably effective in making it appear that he is to blame for running up a huge debt (as I explained, and supported with actual data, he’s responsible for a 1.7% increase in the debt to GDP ratio, as opposed to 50% for George W Bush, but the math skills of the average American voter are not up to the level of understanding this).
This is demonstrably true, particularly if he is as bad as you say he is. Who is sitting in the Oval Office? Who was the first President to pass general health care reform in 100 years of trying? Who got financial reform done? Who got his own financial rescue plan passed?
Yes, although it wasn’t Obama’s original idea. The politicians who first described the general model for what would later be called “Obamacare” were GOP Senators Grassley and Dole and, later, Massachusetts Governor Romney.
I never said that. Kennedy’s cut of the marginal tax rate from 91% to 70% was a good idea. Getting the marginal rate below 50% was another good idea. But there is a point at which the tax losses to the treasury blow up the debt so badly that it outdoes the potential good to the economy. Cutting the marginal rate from 39% to 35% was, indeed, a bad idea, as was gutting the inheritance tax, thereby creating a “to the manor born,” British-style class society in America and further adding to the deficit.
Yes, THE CRA HAD NOTHING to do with the mortgage/housing market crash!
At last, we agree on SOMETHING.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
Sorry Braindead, I watched the video AND I know that your talking points are from the fringe left websites.
Love how you keep adding injuries she didn’t have before to what happened to her.
BTW, why do you think women aren’t a threat? Chauvinism perhaps? Some widdle woman can’t hurt the bigger, stronger, smarter man? Women are just too inferior to achieve something like an assassination/assault?
@ B-Rob, another ‘take’ on it.
The Gulf of Paducah Incident
http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2010/10/gulf-of-paducah-incident.html
I am content to laugh at the speculation on this incident and allow the Courts to do their Due Process role. Trying the case here without benefit of evidence or witnesses is patently absurd to say the least. Speculation on steroids.
Larry, thanks for proving that you deserve to be called Delusional Larry.
Larry, Mata gave you a list of his socialist policies. You just forgot to address that eh?
Ummm, yes you did say his picks would be moderates. Again, you seem to have amnesia when things aren’t in your favor. It’s also pretty clear that MOST of his picks aren’t moderates. Well, clear to everyone that isn’t a liberal o-bot like yourself.
Obama is a political genius because he managed to get elected? Because he had a supermajority majority in Congress that allowed him to JUST BARELY get his agenda thru? You sure set the bar low for genius status.
Obama care will drive up the debt (which you are soooo concerned about) reduce quality of care, while making it LESS affordable. You think that’s a good thing?
Despite mountains of proof, you pretend the CRA had nothing to do with the mortgage/housing crash. That is seriously delusional.
You see, I understand why you are in denial on that issue. For one, it would put some of the blame on your beloved obama and his role in the debacle. Another reason is that it would indict your demonstrated love of social engineering and reduce the blame those “evil banks” were responsible for.
For those who want to see how reducing the tax rate can be good and the economists agree:
http://www.house.gov/jec/fiscal/tx-grwth/reagtxct/reagtxct.htm
http://www.taxcutsincreaserevenue.com/
http://blog.heritage.org/2010/09/21/big-spending-not-tax-cuts-drive-u-s-budget-deficits/
http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/economists-recommend-extending-bush-tax-cuts.html
http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/19/news/economy/what_to_do_economists_survey/index.htm
Hard Right —
In the Coakley incident, a male campaign worker pushed a reporter against a railing. The reporter fell on the railing, hit the ground, then was helped up by the guy who pushed him. He suffered torn pants. It’s right here:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/video-someone-coakley-campaign-pushes-me-metal-railing
In Paducah, two men attacked a woman, pushed her to the ground and one of them stepped on her head. She suffered a concussion and a sprained shoulder.
If you cannot figure out why these two incidents are nowhere near comparable, there is nothing I can say to explain why one (two guys injuring a woman) is MUCH worse than the other (one guy tearing another guy’s pants).
I KNEW you cons would try to minimize your side’s responsibility. I KNEW you would try to draw a false equivalence. But I am shocked that you stooped below the level I thought you would.
@Hard:
I’ll answer Mata in the future. She’s on sabbatical and I want to be sure she’ll have the opportunity to offer timely rejoinders to my responses.
In the prior discussions on the CRA, I provided reams of data, as well as analyses of experts.
Total financial losses from CRA loans were close to 1% of the total bad loans, in terms of dollars. Most of the subprimes were re-finances, investment properties, vacation homes. CRA participating banks outperformed CRA non-participating banks. Not a single manager/official of a failed bank has ever blamed the CRA for their bank failure. That’s a very short summary. Also, the majority of the people sold subprimes would have qualified for low fixed rate loans. They were steered into the subprime adjustables with low teaser rates by loan brokers operating on commission.
What caused the financial crisis was the following cascade:
Too much capital, with no place to go, as a result of the Bush tax cuts and Fed monetary policy, leading to T bill rates of 1% or less. This demand caused by a glut of cash searching for investment yield led to a need for new financial instruments, with a stampede toward securitized mortgages, necessitating investment insurance, in the form of unregulated credit default swaps. When the real estate bubble collapsed (which also had nothing whatsoever to do with the CRA), the whole house of cards came down.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
On Budget Cuts and Sacrifice:
Dem Senator in Standoff With DOD: No Info? No Nominees
http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/10/26/dem-senator-standoff-dod-no-info-no-nominees
(Before reading, my humble opinion, JFCOM is duplication of effort, is not necessary and just not affordable under the current fiscal situation. It is just Jobs in Webb’s bailwick plain and simple.)
This is NOT money to be saved, it is just damage control on irresponsible spending. Where will the ‘savings’ go? Nowhere.
B-Rob HOW dare you pronounce the CONSERVATIVES guilty by association when they
said how bad this has been done, and you also wrote lines on me that I never pronounce,
THIS is your game of showing outrage here when you never mention your disagreement on attacks by the union guys on one tea party person which was badly beaten,
SO don’t give us that bulshit of yours to attack the CONSERVATIVES by DEFAMING their
CARACTER; IT surely wont work here, as It is a usual PATTERN of your behavior. and IT is SICKENING
@ bees —
I am not impugning anyones character; I am merely attacking those cons who are defending the two a-holes who attacked a woman and stepped on her head. If you in anyway excuse, condone or minimize that, then you are saying more about your own conservative “character” than I ever could.
@ B-Rob, your “outrage” on the Paducah incident reminds me of the old story of what happens to dogs that chase cars and catch them. It never works out that swell for the dog. Activists assume a certain risk, like that fictional dog that would have been better off staying in his/her own front yard.
OLD TROOPER 2: hi, why is it the MILITARIES has to be sacrificed and reduce their number when they are the one paying the ultimate SACRIFICE in combat, in order to save money for
the PET PROJECT of the many AGENCYS IN GOVERNMENT.
THIS is an UNBALANCE for the COUNTRY of the size of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
bye
Lie much braindead? Where did I mention the Martha Coakley incident? Nowhere.
The Move On activist wasn’t attacked. Here’s is what really happened based on the video and reports immediately afterwards. An unknown woman clearly in disguise rushes a Congressional candidate. She was stopped, then non-violently pulled to the ground by a Rand supporter. She landed mostly ON the Rand supporter. Originally she suffered NO injuries and refused medical care. She DID NOT go to the hospital. Below is a link to the video.
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/204603.php
Elsewhere I mentioned that Conservatives were condemning and agreeing that the guy who put her foot on her should be charged with assault. Minimizing? I don’t think so. People are pointing out the selective outrage and hypocrisy of the left, something you desperately want us to ignore. We are simply stating the facts, unlike yourself. Everyone who watches the vido can see there is no way she sufferred a sprained neck or shoulder, or even a concussion.
No the only dishonest
persontroll here is you. You take your talking points from the likes of Huffpo, KOS, and DUNG and regurgitate them like a parrot. You have ZERO credibility.@ Bees, JFCOM is a mixture of Military and DOD Civilians, they do not deploy anywhere and are duplication of effort. They are not a critical part of Defense. They are what I refer to as excess so on a list of critical Defense organizations, they are low on the scale.
OLD TROOPER 2: YES, I see, but is that what they call CREATING JOBS, in the
GOVERNMENT. bye thank you
@hard: (137)
I read all of your links. The first was a GOP House commissioned analysis from 1996 which looked only at raw revenues and didn’t look at debt accumulation. Revenues grow because of: (1) population growth, (2) inflation, and (3) GDP growth. Your sources were 80% conservative blogs or foundations. That’s OK, but it does give me license to quote a liberal economist, in rebuttal:
The second link was simply assertion, with no data and no references.
The fourth and fifth had to do with what economists think should be done right now, as we are recovering from a near-death-experience economic meltdown. They are advocating more Keynesian stimulus (i.e. borrowing more money to continue to finance a continuation of the Bush tax cuts), as opposed to taking immediate measures to reduce the deficit (i.e. allowing the tax cuts to expire, as Greenspan and others advocate). These particular citations have nothing at all to do with the issue of whether tax cuts ever pay for themselves (which they most certainly do not, as supported by data and references I provided previously).
This leaves the third reference (the Heritage Foundation analysis).
Let’s look at the first comment/critique of the analysis (appearing at the end of the article you linked):
Kevin H, College Park, MD on September 21st, 2010 at 11:15am said:
Gotta attend to a big project relating to my day job. Won’t be able to rejoin the discussion until the weekend. Have fun while I’m gone!
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
Nevada voting machines automatically checking Harry Reid’s name; voting machine technicians are SEIU members
Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Voting-machines-in-Clark-County-Nevada-automatically-checking-Harry-Reids-name-Voting-machine-technicians-are-members-of-SEIU-105815608.html#ixzz13VkITgM7
The copy of the contract between Clark County and the SEIU is at the link above.
Maybe we’d be better served going back to paper ballots marked by pencil or by pushing a chad out.
Just sayin’.
And Larry, your sources were as biased as you accuse mine of being. So you’ll excuse me if I don’t agree with you on your previous post or the loon krugman on your most recent one.
You pick a comment on the article as proof you are right? Riiiiight.
No role whatsoever Larry? Two of the links are to economists.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Democrats-on-path-to-repeat-housing-disaster-8275069-60060902.html
http://mises.org/daily/2963
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/item_Qjl08vDbysbe6LWDxcq03J;jsessionid=7DFD7679E05683A43C25A0D3C13422D3