September 6, 2010 Afghans wave banners saying “Quran is our law, Islam is our religion” during a demonstration against the U.S. in Kabul. Hundreds railed against the U.S. and called for President Barack Obama’s death at the rally denouncing an American church’s plans to burn the Islamic holy book on Sept. 11.Musadeq Sadeq-AP
As I’m sure everyone is made aware of already, General Petraeus has publicly spoken out against the wisdom (or lack thereof) of the planned burning of Korans on September 11th:
“It could endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort,” Gen. Petraeus said in an interview. “It is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems. Not just here, but everywhere in the world we are engaged with the Islamic community.”
Hundreds of Afghans attended a demonstration in Kabul on Monday to protest the plans of Florida pastor Terry Jones, who has said he will burn copies of Islam’s holy book to mark the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Afghan protesters chanted “death to America,” and speakers called on the U.S. to withdraw its troops. Some protesters threw rocks at a passing military convoy.
Military officials fear the protests will likely spread to other Afghan cities, especially if the event is broadcast or ends up on Internet video.
Gen. Caldwell said many Afghans do not understand either the U.S. Constitution’s First Amendment or the fact that President Barack Obama can’t simply issue a decree to stop Mr. Jones from his demonstration. Military officials said they were not trying to deny Mr. Jones his right to free speech, but feared he was not thinking about the consequences of his actions.
“There is no question about First Amendment rights; that is not the issue,” Gen. Caldwell said. “The question is: What is the implication over here? It is going to jeopardize the men and women serving in Afghanistan.”
As opponents of the “Ground Zero Mosque” like to say, “This isn’t about what’s legal. We know it’s legal. This is about what’s right.”
What good will be accomplished by the burning of the Koran? In its original Arabic, it is regarded with deep reverence by those who practice the faith seriously (both by jihadis and by peaceful Muslims), as the very Word of God. By trying to hurt “radicals” who else are they hurting in the process? Of course, Terry Jones, who authored a book titled “Islam is of The Devil,” is one of those who regards Islam itself as the enemy. This plays right into the hands of bin Laden and Zawahiri who desperately want the entire Muslim world to buy into their propaganda that the West, and the U.S. in particular, are persecuting Muslims and are at war with their faith. Truth is not on their side…unless al Qaeda has willing dupes like Terry Jones pawning for them.
There is no question that a good percentage of the Islamic world has a tolerance and anger management problem:
Allegations of mishandling the Quran have interrupted Afghan security training at least twice this year, Gen. Caldwell said.
In one instance, a Quran fell to the ground when an American officer opened a locker during an inspection of Afghan trainees’ barracks. The rumor quickly spread that the officer had thrown it to the ground, angering the trainees at the camp. “He quickly apologized, but rumors took off like wildfire,” Gen. Caldwell said. “It was so hard to get the misperception turned around we stopped all training for the rest of the day.”
Reports about the Quran have set off violent protests before. A report in Newsweek, later retracted, that a U.S. interrogator at the Guantanamo Bay prison had flushed a Quran down a toilet set off riots in Afghanistan and elsewhere.
And certainly there is a fair amount of double standard at work, where artists, comedians, writers, and anti-Christian bigots feel free to insult and defile Christianity while Islam appears to be “off limits”. At least not without “Islamic rage boy” terrorizing the offenders with fatwas and rioting.
There is no fear of Christian militant Crusadists walking up to Andres Serrano and stabbing him to death over Piss Christ.
However, a few points:
1) We are not in the middle of a war with Christian religious radical extremist militants where winning hearts and minds of the Christian majority is a major part of waging a global counterinsurgency effort.
2) Just because one can ridicule Christians and Jews and get away with it does not make it right to do so. One should, in general, be respectful of others. Be the example. The line of reasoning that argues “We’ll let a mosque be built here as soon as they allow churches and synagogues to be built at Mecca and Medina” are just juvenile and self-serving tit for tats. Why would we choose to be “more like them”? So arguing that we should burn Korans because others are able to desecrate things held sacred by Jews and Christians and get away with it is just a weak, childish, vindictive, gratuitous form of being what you profess to hate. Who are we really hurting here?
We shouldn’t have to tip-toe on eggshells around a particular religion and give special preferential treatment to it, not extended to the other faiths. However, the reality also remains that one of the three major faiths does have an anger management problem amongst a sizable minority of its practitioners and we are in the middle of a war. A war that requires the winning of hearts and minds and the marginalization of the more radical elements of Islam from the more moderate elements of Islam.
We have Muslim allies in our war. They and our enemy share the same Holy Book. But their reading of it differs. How does burning their Holy Book hurt our enemy and not our allies?
Interestingly enough, one of my friends who is French Muslim-American, posted a CNN video interview of Terry Jones a couple of weeks ago on her FB wall. Every single one of her Muslim friends merely laughed or was dismissive, expressing a “turn the other cheek” sentiment in their comments. No stereotypical Islamic rage here. One might call their reaction a very typical “Christian” response. They’d probably disagree and say they are being “Islamic” in their tolerance (Believe it or not, cynicism and derision aside, Sumbul Ali-Karamali talks about tolerance in Islam in her book, “The Muslim Next Door”).
I do not believe that desecration of the Koran hurts bin Laden and Zawahiri in the slightest. I do believe that they welcome- they beg for “International Burn a Koran Day” to occur….because it plays right into their propaganda playbook.
Just because we can…..should we?
A handwritten Koran is displayed during an exhibition in Malacca, Malaysia January 12, 2008. You Witness News/Aizuddin Saad
A former fetus, the “wordsmith from nantucket” was born in Phoenix, Arizona in 1968. Adopted at birth, wordsmith grew up a military brat. He achieved his B.A. in English from the University of California, Los Angeles (graduating in the top 97% of his class), where he also competed rings for the UCLA mens gymnastics team. The events of 9/11 woke him from his political slumber and malaise. Currently a personal trainer and gymnastics coach.
The wordsmith has never been to Nantucket.
How about the group burns the korans, and we prohibit the press from covering it? After all…this whole thing _is_ a press arranged “Outrage d’ jour”… Maybe arrange some other Outrage d’jour for them to cover…
Without a big press whoop-di-doo … the pastor could have had his koran burning fest and who would have known? It isn’t really the burning koran that’s the issue, it’s the burning press issue…
I think this might–might being a forlorn hope–get through to a few of the many people who think Islam is a ROP, just like Methodists except their holy day is Friday.
To compare it to the riots over Piss Christ.
Think it will get through?
They burn the Flag…No problem.
They burn effigy of Bush, Obama and Preachers….No Problem.
We burn there qu’ran, then its death to you…..And they tell us to be tolerant !!! Yeah , uh-huh !!
In 2002 some Muslims took over the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem.
They took Christian clergy there as hostages.
They used the oldest illuminated Bible as toilet paper!
These are people who don’t usually even use toilet paper!
They were doing it AS a provocation.
They knew how THEY would feel, if their koran was used thusly.
IF America buckles to the pre-emptive dhimmitude of self-censorship of one another we might as well decide on prayer rugs or jizya tax right now.
Let individual Americans act smartly or stupidly, as they will.
Not every Muslim would use your ancient, revered family Bible as toilet paper, but some will.
Same with Americans and burning or shooting holes through korans.
Forgot to mention this in my prior comment to Nan G. You make it sound like the Palestinian militants deliberately went there to “take over” the church.
In actuality, some were bad guys who, like many bad guys before them, fled to the church for shelter when cornered. Others were civilians who fled there to avoid the firefights when the Israelis rolled in for Operation Defense Shield. This was after they saw their mosque, across the street, bombed. Hang… they (the Palestinians who *were* the militants) weren’t even all there for the same reason. It was a group of misfit militants, totally disorganized and dumber than dirt…. combined with civilians. The church gave sanctuary to all.
Oddly enough, both the Vatican/Pope and the British jumped on the Israelis about the handling of that event. This was also the same time they got Arafat holed up in his compound, attempting to get the increased suicide bombings under control.
As for the toilet paper “oldest Bible” embellishment, the church has never stated that but did say that some items that looked valuable were taken. Never that such a valuable heirloom was desecreated. And some of those were found returned in the parking lot laters. Your toilet paper is a WorldNetDaily tidbit that is unconfirmed hype… and tasty embellishment for those willing to believe anything sans proof. Of course the WND also said the terrorists guzzled Johnnie Walker, beer and wine.
Suggest you read up on history before rattling off half truths and misinforming many on recent historical events. Dang… even Wiki has it closer to reality than you.
For me personally . . . the Patriotism, the “Rise to the Occasion” . . . what I see here on FA is a renewal of my belief in America the Great. So now comes the question . . . why can’t a 60 year old enlist in the armed forces, lol! Probably, to patriotic!!! I have lived my life, I have benefitted the most, I have seen the good times, I have seen the bad . . . NOW let me do what I would most willingly do. Serve my country!!!
@Romeo13:
I don’t care to post on the anti-Muslim/Islam issues, but this is an exception. I love reading your posts and on all of the other topics I really appreciate your input….there is a “but” here.
But, it’s not just refraining from offending the Muslims, it’s making our troops job lighter and safer. When General Petraeus warns that this incident could cause harm to our troops, I think it would be important that we discourage this “pastor” from carrying this out, and encourage him to knock it off.
Unfortunately, the press has given this man, unknown a week or so ago, a platform, it’s gone viral, remember the flushed Koran episode that never happened and the fall out?…our troops do not need this incident to happen…at all.
@Romeo13 #50: That would be “outrage du jour.” And I agree. It’s apt.
@Tallgrass:
Aw, the government is probably worried that those in our age group are hooked on Metamucil or worse, we might not need it. 😳
I think you have served over and above and you are naturally the type of man that would go on and on. But, we have young warriors stepping up and carrying on in an outstanding fashion. It is your time to be proud of the groundwork you have laid for them and wish them well. Thank you Tallgrass…for everything you have done for this great nation!
@Missy
Sorry… but your cognitive disconnect has me dizzy
If this is not about offending Muslims, then how would it make our Troops job more difficult?
The idea is that if they burn them, more Muslims will get angry at us, and join the Taliban to kill our troops.
I contend that it really does not matter… they are going to be angry anyway, whether over this, or some other contrived insult.
I mean they were angry over a CARTOON! And have tried to kill the cartoonist a couple of times… I don’t think it really matters what we do short of total submission… so why bother.
Beer and P@orno for ALL!
Today Obama strongly condemned the Florida church that plans to burn korans on 9/11. I agree with them, some of you dont and that is fine but hey, isn’t that their religious right under the constitution? The same right he celebrated for the muslims to build their triumphal mega-mosque at Ground Zero? Obama is such a hyprocrite!
This is offensive not just to the religion of the perpetually outraged, they are outraged about everything anyway, but to me as an American as well.
We don’t burn books.
Burning books, holy, political, or “subversive” carries a connotation that reeks of all that we abhor. It’s the mark of a totalitarian mindset.
The same reasoning that makes the GZ mosque such a bad idea holds true for this as well. Just because this pastor has the “right” to do so, doesn’t mean he should.
Old Trooper, you get it. If I’ve never said it before… thank you sir, for your service.
wardogs
@Romeo13:
There are a few of us that have loved ones in the fight, we don’t want it any rougher for them. I also think we can be bigger than that. How many times do we look upon our detractors with discust as they burn our flag. Do we really want to stoop to that level?
Certainly don’t want you to be dizzy, perhaps this might shed some light on what I’m trying to get across.
From Word’s link:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703713504575475500753093116.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLETopStories
@Missy
My son goes to US Navy Bootcamp, starting next Monday…. so I do get it.
Protesters were ALREADY chanting “Death to America”… they were ALREADY throwing rocks at troops… do you really think that Burning Korans really makes a difference with them?
Do you really think this will change anything within the Religion of perpetual outrage? That the Outrage d’ jour really matters?
Many Thanks Missy
Common Sense is a rare commodity these days.
Take Care Lady!
I also note… this…
Its been the American tradition that Generals did not comment on Internal American Politics, that was the place of the Civilian leadership. Those who historicaly did not follow this… folks like Custer… or Patton (about foreign policy), or McAruthur (again foreign policy) were outliers… who were JUSTIFIABLY castigated for their statements…
I’m more aligned with Cincinatus, and George Washington…
That Patreus felt he HAD to comment on this, because the administration would not… says volumes as well.
May I point out that Muslims already are rioting while the qurans have yet to be torched. The wild-eyed barbarian horde is rioting at only the thought of burning qurans. Truth is that no quranic conflagration is needed to enflame muslims. Had the campaign been to get X number of people around the world on a particular day at a particular time to merely envisage vesuvian qurans the resultant reaction of the religion of peace, Submission, would differ by not a single jot.
I’m not advocating an actual quranic holocaust, but the idea is already there, muslims believe it as fait accompli, have effected sans cause, so I don’t see that burning or not burning matters anymore. What’s missing in Western understanding is that muslims don’t hate us for what we do nor for for what we are – infidels. The God of Submission commands death to the unbeliever and that is exactly what is being meted out come hell or high water. It doesn’t matter what we do to mitigate adverse action, with the singular exception of submission.
Somehow, I can’t imagine a debate of the current magnitude at the burning of Mein Kampf for fear of upsetting NAZIs, or burning Mao’s Little Red Book because such would hurt the feelings of a billion Chinese, no one would have been as concerned by the immolation of the Communist Manifesto because doing so might emotionally disturb someone in the USSR.
But that’s all different, Indi! Those books were not the word of GOD. Neither is the quran. Mein Kampf, Little Red Book, Communist Manifesto were all written by men – well meaning and incredibly evil men. The quran was written by a thug, thief, murderer, pedophile – a well meaning and incredibly evil man whose adherents are ready and willing to kill all of us simply because their holy thug says so.
Burn or don’t burn. It no longer matters. The thought is fact.
@old trooper 2
I notice you do not answer my DIRECT question…
Will there ever, in your opinion, be a time when the West does NOT anger those who follow Moh?
I’ve played in staff meetings myself… one tactic is to support those who are of your opinion, while not answering the questions, of those who do not…
How about this…..
Let the nuts burn the Qur’an, then remove the constraints of the ROE placed on our troops and let them kill every Goddamned one of the islamic bastards that set foot within two miles of one of our troops.
If everyone is sooooo concerned with the “safety of our troops”, let them do the frickin’ job they were trained to do.
Hearts and minds my ass.
@Old Trooper 2:
And I thank you OT, all is well. 😉
Dam… once I learned to spell… Outrage d’ Jour… or Outrage du Jour… have both been used on both Hotair, and /shudder…. daily Koss….
Dang… and I was hoping to reitre… again… off the royalties… LOL…
Next time Peterus is in front of a Congressional Committee i want them to ask if Obama asked him to speak out against this issue.
“We shouldn’t have to tip-toe on eggshells around a particular religion and give special preferential treatment to it, not extended to the other faiths.”
Yet we do. Why is Islam the only religion that has to be protected above all others? They use their threats to control us, and we blindly play along. Christianity is not protected from negative comments, etc. It’s OK to burn or stomp our flag, but insult Islam? It is time for someone to have the courage to stand up and tell the truth about Islam. It is not a religion of peace. Do you see how they treat women? The group in the New York mosque controversy is working to get Sharia law in our country. And they are afraid all these negative statements against the mosque will “cause” their young men to do harmfu things. What other religion threatens to harm people if you speak against them? We cannot continue being afraid of them – they are slowly taking control this way! That is what they do everywhere they go – see France and England, just to name two.
Oh, and by the way, do all of you know that Muslims are exempt from having to participate in the insurance program all the rest of us have to have crammed down our throats, and that they have to pay no penalty like any of the rest of us? Do you see how we are bowing to their demands? I say it is time for them to be subjected to everything the rest of us are, or get the heck out of the country.
@Romeo13 #16:
As Old Trooper put it, you’re just throwing gasoline on a fire. Is that really wise? Intentionally provoking for the sake of doing so?
Burkas are endorsed by a very miniscule segment of the Muslim population. And the issue of women’s right in Islam is a bit more complex and varied than the cartoonish, stereotypical picture you draw from.
Define “they”; because I don’t recall 1.5 billion rioting over the ‘toons, calling death to the infidels. Out of the minority who did protest, how many actually rioted and how many protested peaceably, voicing their outrage and exercising their freedom to speak out against what offends them?
@AdrianS #18:
Who is saying you can’t do it? This is like today’s host on Glenn Beck’s radio program this morning who criticized Petraeus for supposedly stifling on the freedom of speech of those who choose to burn books. So what…Petraeus isn’t allowed to exercise his freedom of speech to point out the idiocy and the danger it poses to our troops? In undermining COIN strategy?
Of course your hating on the Koran and calling it garbage has nil effect on pushing anyone over into the jihadi anti-American camp of Islamic loonies.
Yes, Islam (or a segment of its populace) has an anger management problem. Why compound that and intentionally provoke? In giving validity and credibility to al Qaeda’s charge that Muslims are being persecuted by the West?
Burning the Koran doesn’t just “harm” the “radicalized followers”.
What you call a book of hate is revered by many peaceful Muslims around the world. And protests will likely increase with the increased media coverage. In case you missed my link in my first comment, thousands protested in Indonesia. The WSJ link warns that protests may eventually spread to other parts of Afghanistan, to other cities, and puts our war effort in country at risk.
@AdrianS #21:
Why not practice a bit of what you preach? Be the example? You are the hatred and bigotry you rail against.
Not everyone reads the Koran with hatred in their hearts for Jews, Christians, and infidels. Some actually see just the opposite message in their Korans. There are Muslims who see Islam, Jews, and Christians as all “People of the Book”/”Followers of an Earlier Revelation”, because they each received a scripture or a revelation from God. Some Muslims merely see Islam as a continuation of where Judaism and Christianity left off. They recognize Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Noah, and David as important prophets; that Christians, Jews, and Muslims are all descended from Abraham.
Now bin Laden may not read his Koran this way. And it’s those like him who you should surgically aim your cross-hairs at for offense and insults.
I don’t like burning ANY books in this country. I don’t like to see the burning of nations flags in any country. I don’t like seeing Christians beheaded, Splodey bombs blowing up in cafe’s, Muslims outrage over cartoons, or any other bullshit the islamapukes do on a regular basis. IMO this particular issue is one of frustration. Folks are tired of the Islamic “Demands” of us while ignoring the civilized worlds suggestions of them. All we ask is to be respected the way they wish us to respect them. They don’t get that by blowing up innocent folks and doing the 7th century mayhem they are so well known for.
IF these people burning the Koran make them feel better, go ahead. Burn away…IF anyone believes that 50 people in Florida burning a koran is going to cause more or less Islamic violence they are clueless as to why we are fighting.
Sad part is, until the next major attack occurs on our soil, the sheep will still cozy up to the wolf. It’s going to take a lot of DEAD Americans to wake folks up to the danger that is Islam. Of course the MILLIONS of dead by Islamic hands over the last 30 years must not be enough.
@Tammy #24:
Tammy, you might be curious to check out my post on those Muslims who did condemn the 9/11 attacks.
Tammy, I think you are being a good Christian. Someone who does honor to her faith and not playing the tit-for-tat “Well if it’s ok for them to hate and offend, why’s it not right for us to do so as well?”-game of reasoning.
The ones who did attack us on 9/11 was the al Qaeda network and affiliates. Not the whole of Islam. And to broaden the war and lump the whole religion into one camp is exactly what al Qaeda wants to have happen. They want a clash of civilizations and a religious war. Most muslims did not answer their clarion call to jihad. Why give al Qaeda the helping hand?
@Robert #76:
I know muslims who are tired of it too. And they are tired of being lumped together and having perceptions of their faith defined by the backward fundamentalists, Saudi Arabian wahhabists, and the Taliban, Khomeinites, and Islamic takfiri terrorists.
At first, I was against burning Qurans. It seems so — disrespectful.
But, on the other hand — whenever some Muslim fooker goes all jihadi on us Infidels, the “Islamic Professional Apologists” come out of the woodwork to explain to us stoopids that it’s just a “tiny minority of misunderstanders” and we shouldn’t tar all of Peace-Loving Islam because of the actions of the misguided few.
Fair enough.
Let’s announce that America also has a “tiny minority of misunderstanders”.
If we of the Civilized West are supposed to ignore Islamic crazies who blow up trains and restaurants and nightclubs, who fly planes into buildings, who behead Christian schoolgirls, then by G-D those same whiners can STFU about some dingbat burning Qurans.
And if all 1.5 billion Muslims get their panties in a wad and start demonstrating the REAL meaning of “the Peace of Islam” (hint: graveyards are not rowdy places), we’ll have a real-world demonstration of why “tolerating the intolerable” is a very, very bad idea.
Romeo13 ref #50
“de jure” is Latin for “by law”.
I think you’re aiming for “du jour” (French for “of the day”)
So, outrage-of-the-day becomes outrage-du-jour. (Oh, la-la! Bon mot!)
Wordsmith 78, Well when the so-called “Moderates” refuse to condemn or condemn with caveats they deserve the “Lumping”
What we have here is a simple solution, it’s one the Christians use when our religion is “Hijacked” WE STAND AGAINST IT. Have you ever seen a Phred Phelps protest? have you noticed the folks aligned on the opposite side? MOST are church going CHRISTIANS! Ever see “Moderates” protesting outside the radical mosques in our nation? There are several that have been captured on video ranting about jihad, and the infidels and yada yada…
Fact is, since the “Moderates” are not policing their own, they have allowed the hate and the “Lumping” and give the 21st century folks very little to defend.
And before you go talking about the few Muslim orgs that have been speaking out against it. Realize that that there are 1.5 billion Muslims, and according to MANY studies between 2 and 10 percent are RADICALIZED. That’s a HUGE percentage but the opposition between the radicals and “moderates” is very LOW…WHY?
IF they truly opposed it, they need to OPPOSE it consistently, not just when it suits them. I didn’t see a lot of Muslims WEEPING with us on 9-11-2001, I saw far more celebrating in the streets.
Defend the cult if you wish. I’ll keep my powder dry and my eyes open.
@retire05 #47:
Yes, and as I said in an earlier comment (and I believe I alluded or said as much within the post), it’s not a question of whether you have the legal right or not; it’s not about denying you the freedom of expression but the wisdom of it. It’s about those who disagree exercising their freedom to disagree and dissent.
Most Muslims are not going to riot or rage over this. Many will feel offended; many will feel the barbs of bigotry. But many will also react like the Muslim friends of my French-Muslim friend, in my post.
But there is a sizable minority who will react badly; there are others who are “at risk” for radicalization. These include young, disenfranchised Muslim immigrants who may feel alienation and seek identity and belonging. They are ripe pickings for jihadi propaganda and recruitment.
Just look at the amount of anti-American garbage that comes from the non-Islamic world.
I agree. Like the Danish cartoons when first published. And because of the growing media coverage, Petraeus felt the need to comment; and because of his comment, the story gains larger life; and now the WH Gibbs and State Dept have spoken, and yet more coverage. Hopefully, along with that, will be coverage of those Americans and Christians, as well as U.S. government who have condemned Pastor Terry Jones and asked him to relent.
Who is putting a restriction on Jones’ First Amendment right?
And as I cited from the WSJ article:
@Robert #81:
The Myth that the Muslim World Celebrated the Attacks of 9/11
Is the Islamic world rejecting al-Qaeda theology, thanks to the War in Iraq?
@Wordsmith:
When I studied Arabic (after 9-11-01) for two semesters I learned about two types of obligations on Muslims:
One type is on each and every Muslim (much like the commands to love one another and to preach is on all Christians).
The other is on the Muslim community.
We don’t have an obligation in any of our other religions quite like that one.
The little short story, ”The Lottery*” is as close as anything I could find approaching it (and that’s fiction).
Basically one’s Mosque must cough up one son for jihad every now and again is what it boils down to.
When we hear that 1 or 2% of all Muslims engage in violent jihad I recall those two obligations.
I have forgotten which is which, as it’s been a few years…..
One is ~ fard ayn and the other is fard kifayah (in phonetic English).
The one son per Mosque more than accounts for that 1 or 2%.
*http://www.classicshorts.com/stories/lotry.html
hey, but it was ok for the nytimes to disclose our military secrets when president bush was in and not anything has been done about the wiki leak. many military secrets have been leaked since these war efforts have started and put our military in harms way, what has been done? heck, even ayers, personal friend of obama’s and wheater undergrounder that threw bombs at our american police and stomps on our american flag can do whatever and nothing has happened to him.
now let some christians burn the koran and the sky is going to fall. patreaus should fight the war and win it and stop reading the newspaper.
Predictably, Hillary Clinton objected to the potential burning of the Qur’an. She did not object to the building of the mosque. When it came to the mosque, she was insistent about rights. When it comes to the Qur’an burning, rights are no longer and important issue.
We’re not supposed to object to the mosque building because Muslims will be upset. We’re not supposed to burn a Qur’am because Muslims will be upset.
Like it or not, there’s a theme there. It’s always there. Islam is the religion of perpetual outrage, within those other than secular Muslims.
I remember…
General Petraeus:
Do not make me rise from the grave and kick your ass. Man up. “There is a time to take counsel of your fears and there is a time to never listen to any fear.”
Don’t get involved in politics. You are expressing a cowardly “conventional wisdom”. Remember, “If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn’t thinking.”
So, “Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.”
De-pussify immediately!
I apologize to our Muslim friends the religion of peace. I too will do as “my” president has done. Extend my hand to them AND MY MIDDLE FINGER AS A SALUTE.
I also would like to see everyone of them at Gitmo be shaved
@Wordsmith #75
That’s exactly the point that you certainly have NOT overlooked. “Not everyone…” But how many are in the “Not everyone” category and how many in the “Kill Jews and Infidels” category. Even moderates who read and worship the Koran are affected in a subliminal way into submission; thinking in the very least that it is OK to HATE or perhaps offer passive support to the radical Islamic terrorists. Therein lies the reason for the objects to the textual content of the Koran. This is what decent Americans and people throughout the world object to: the Koran is HATE.
The concern is that the Koran, read by many Muslims, has a radicalization effect on young minds. Yes, not everyone reacts to the Koranic call for killing Jews and Infidels; however, the one that will kill you will be the one that took the Koran literally.
Get it right or fail forever.
THE FIREFIGHTERs realy know the ABOMINATION of 9/11, they still havent forgot
and AMERICANS owe them a lot.
@Tammy:
It is possible to be on the same side of an issue, but for different reasons. I found the above statement to be vacuous. It is hard to state that without coming off as being insulting. Having been around to see the hippies first hand, I can remember this tripe passing as enlightened educated thought. The fact is, it is just plain wrong. These are the same folks who place those inane COEXIST bumper stickers on their cars. As for boycotts, they rarely work. Boycotts against nations, and or states have never worked. Cuba does ring a bell, and they took a very aggressive stand against us militarily. Does the Cuban Missile Crisis ring a bell? Were it not for the fact that they recognized that they had no chance against us without the help of the Soviets, we would have faced an invasion. As it is, fenceline shootings at Gitmo are not an unheard of occurance. I am not against burning books because I am worried about anyone’s sensabilities. I am against book burning because it shows a great amount of purposeful ignorance on the part of those commiting the arson. We should be reading the Q’ran, which believe me, would result in far harsher feelings towards Muslims in general than already exists today.
As for how I would feel if Muslims were weeping instead of dancing in the aftermath of 9/11, well that question answers itself doesn’t it. That is the whole point of why these idiots wish to burn their living guide in the first place. No other religion on Earth teaches its practioners to worship death and to seek to proslitize via violence. Other religions teach of higher spiritual existence being the reward for behaving well here on Earth. Islam teaches that by killing infidels via means of jihad, the indulgence of our basist physical urges will be the reward of the afterlife. You will never be able to negotiate a peace with people who view it as a sacred duty to end your existence.
It saddens me to say it, but if we fought the Pacific War with the Japanese today and they used the same Kamikaze techniques, we would lose. Why? Because we would not do EVERYTHING we could to win. The bombings would not happen, the sweep and clears of the islands would have ground to halt at the losses we experienced. If by some chance we were able to get to the main island and the entire population rose up against us no American president would drop the Atomic Bombs to end the war. We would let world pressure talk us into signing a peace agreement that left a militaristic Japan licking its wounds and waiting for a rematch for the next 60 years to come.
The past wars, Korea and Vietnam, have shown us that when you half ass a conflict you get no closure and no resolution to what caused the conflict in the first place.
The more we allow the enemy to set the rules and we continue to play by their rules the farther we get from victory. How much longer are we going to be afraid to make others mad at the US? How many more lives are we willing to let die for Political Correctness?
Who burns books?
Stalin
Mussolini
Hitler
PolPot
Kim Jung Il
Kim Jong Un
Fidel Castro
Ayatollah Khomeini
Saddam Hussein
Mao Zedong
Taliban
Al Qaeda
Terry Jones
And now…Many F/A readers and so-called “patriots”….and even worse; Some “Christians”.
The Communist Manifesto and the works of Engels and Marks have killed more through Demicide in 160 years than Islam has in 1400.
Yet that book (and Mein Kampf and Alinski!) are required reading in political-majors classes in every college in this country, and none of you proto-fascists are clamoring to burn those, are you?
My son and I would ask if you could refrain from being book-burners. You won’t be among good company.
I’ve decided for myself that the burning of the Koran in public as a protest against what is contained in that demonic text is the right thing to do. Burn the Koran. Doing right and being moral in objecting to HATE crimes in texts and else where will show the Islamic people and countries just how out of step they are with the rest of the civilized world.
Stoning women, slicing off hands and limbs for crimes as simple as theft, whipping and beating with lashes in public, forcing women to wear burkas even in hot weather, keeping young female children from education because they are objects rather than people, suicide bombings — even Muslim against Muslims, and much more low life, radical, extremist thinking is what the Koran teaches. The only way things will change is if decent people stop and say enough; the Koran is a HATE crime in text.
Get it right or fail forever. Burn the Koran. Do the right thing. Burn the Koran.
@Romeo
I hope that your son has a long and glorious military career. I hope that he serves our country with honor and respect. And I hope that he remains safe and injury free.
Now as far as your thinking on the burning of the Quran. First of all you can’t possibly think that it morally correct to disgrace a religion or a entire race of people because they don’t have the same beliefs as you do. I get your point because we are damned if we do or damned if we don’t. However; it would still be disgraceful to deface a book that means so much to so many.
Does the Quran mean anything to me? Hell no. However; neither does many other religous views that mean alot to most Americans.
Also that doesn’t mean that because we have rights, privileges, and The Constitution (which most Conservatives use to wipe their asses with it until they want it to work in their favor ) here that other countries don’t have that we should give the finger to countries that don’t share our beliefs.
Terry Jones ( no need to call him Pastor or Rev. because a real man of God would know that this is not God’s will ). We are suppose to be better than this.
@Patvann
The difference between those you mention as having burned books and those in Florida who wish to burn the Koran in protest is that those dictators you mention burned books en mass.
Besides many of the books burned were not evil, demonic or had HATE in them. Many were and still are considered classics.
In Florida, members of the book-burning church are protesting against what the Koran says in its text. It is HATE. Burn the Koran, then. It’s the RIGHT thing to do if you are civilized, decent and of moral character. Else, encourage the HATE and the Muslim way of life — which by the way has not produced much if anything in the way of contributions to society, inventions and humanity. Almost all of the inventions of the 19th, 20th, and 21st century have been produced by non-Muslims. Cars, microwaves, radio, computers, television, airplanes, electronics, etc.
We can only wonder why, but it must be the HATE, HATE that consumes those who abide it.
Do the right thing. Burn the Koran. But only if you are decent and have had enough of radicalized Koran terrorists — just as Jesus did with the money-changers at the temple – loose you cool. Enough is enough.
What gets me about burning the book is the idea that those in the church group might not have studied it first.
What do Muslims believe?
This is important.
I know there’s a newer poll but from 2009 one poll found that:
Egypt 81 percent agreed with the al Qaeda goal of “requir[ing] a strict application of Shari’a law in every Islamic country” (65% strongly); only 12 percent disagreed.
Pakistanis 76 percent agreeing with this goal (52% strongly); only 5 percent disagreed.
Morocco 76 percent agreed.
In Egypt, Pakistan, Indonesia, Turkey, Jordan, the Palestinian territories, Azerbaijan, and Nigeria, majorities agree with nearly all of al Qaeda’s goals!
There is wide disagreement only against al Qaeda’s tactics.
This has to be from these people’s familiarity with the koran.
They have little else in common.
@AdrianS #97:
If Terry Jones and possibly yourself had your way and the means to do so, would you not burn every single copy of the Koran?
When you speak about hate, look in the mirror.
@AdrianS #95:
You are soooo sure that you are in the right. You’re like a mirror image of what you fight against.
Please check out my links in comment #74. Most of these practices pre-date Islam and are more localized, cultural practices carried on by traditionally patriarchal, tribal societies.
David Kilcullen’s “Accidental Guerilla” indicates that religion is not a good barometer to predict violence. Graham Fuller’s “A World without Islam” suggests that even if Islam had never come to be, we’d still see much of the dysfunctionality that is being attributed to Islam. (You mention suicide bombings- remember that suicide is forbidden to a mainstream reading of the Koran?- a practice that would still exist without Islam. A Hindu group, the Tamil Tigers, were the first to operationalize the regular usage of suicide vests).
Yes, Afghans need to leave the 7th/12th century. But you’re not going to lead them there by crapping on their religion. Most reject the Taliban’s puritanical fundamentalism; but burning Korans is not going to endear them to allying themselves with those fighting the Taliban. If you lose hearts and minds of the people, wtf are we still doing in Afghanistan?
And if the consequences of all this is the death of innocent civilians and soldiers’ lives- directly as it relates to the book burning- how will you justify your endorsement of it as a worthwhile positive?
@Nan G #98: Sharia does not mean the same thing to all Muslims. There is no universal agreement on what sharia entails:
@Wordsmith #99:
Let me attempt to clarify and backpedal: I don’t mean to compare you as being some kind of moral equivalence to the kind of radical extremists we are both against.
But can you not see the blanket hatred with which you are enveloping an entire group of people under, that have nothing to do with the global jihad movement? Muslims who are victimized by the hatred and intolerance of the Taliban puritanism and al Qaeda violence as much as any infidels are?