September 6, 2010 Afghans wave banners saying “Quran is our law, Islam is our religion” during a demonstration against the U.S. in Kabul. Hundreds railed against the U.S. and called for President Barack Obama’s death at the rally denouncing an American church’s plans to burn the Islamic holy book on Sept. 11.Musadeq Sadeq-AP
As I’m sure everyone is made aware of already, General Petraeus has publicly spoken out against the wisdom (or lack thereof) of the planned burning of Korans on September 11th:
“It could endanger troops and it could endanger the overall effort,” Gen. Petraeus said in an interview. “It is precisely the kind of action the Taliban uses and could cause significant problems. Not just here, but everywhere in the world we are engaged with the Islamic community.”
Hundreds of Afghans attended a demonstration in Kabul on Monday to protest the plans of Florida pastor Terry Jones, who has said he will burn copies of Islam’s holy book to mark the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Afghan protesters chanted “death to America,” and speakers called on the U.S. to withdraw its troops. Some protesters threw rocks at a passing military convoy.
Military officials fear the protests will likely spread to other Afghan cities, especially if the event is broadcast or ends up on Internet video.
Gen. Caldwell said many Afghans do not understand either the U.S. Constitution’s First Amendment or the fact that President Barack Obama can’t simply issue a decree to stop Mr. Jones from his demonstration. Military officials said they were not trying to deny Mr. Jones his right to free speech, but feared he was not thinking about the consequences of his actions.
“There is no question about First Amendment rights; that is not the issue,” Gen. Caldwell said. “The question is: What is the implication over here? It is going to jeopardize the men and women serving in Afghanistan.”
As opponents of the “Ground Zero Mosque” like to say, “This isn’t about what’s legal. We know it’s legal. This is about what’s right.”
What good will be accomplished by the burning of the Koran? In its original Arabic, it is regarded with deep reverence by those who practice the faith seriously (both by jihadis and by peaceful Muslims), as the very Word of God. By trying to hurt “radicals” who else are they hurting in the process? Of course, Terry Jones, who authored a book titled “Islam is of The Devil,” is one of those who regards Islam itself as the enemy. This plays right into the hands of bin Laden and Zawahiri who desperately want the entire Muslim world to buy into their propaganda that the West, and the U.S. in particular, are persecuting Muslims and are at war with their faith. Truth is not on their side…unless al Qaeda has willing dupes like Terry Jones pawning for them.
There is no question that a good percentage of the Islamic world has a tolerance and anger management problem:
Allegations of mishandling the Quran have interrupted Afghan security training at least twice this year, Gen. Caldwell said.
In one instance, a Quran fell to the ground when an American officer opened a locker during an inspection of Afghan trainees’ barracks. The rumor quickly spread that the officer had thrown it to the ground, angering the trainees at the camp. “He quickly apologized, but rumors took off like wildfire,” Gen. Caldwell said. “It was so hard to get the misperception turned around we stopped all training for the rest of the day.”
Reports about the Quran have set off violent protests before. A report in Newsweek, later retracted, that a U.S. interrogator at the Guantanamo Bay prison had flushed a Quran down a toilet set off riots in Afghanistan and elsewhere.
And certainly there is a fair amount of double standard at work, where artists, comedians, writers, and anti-Christian bigots feel free to insult and defile Christianity while Islam appears to be “off limits”. At least not without “Islamic rage boy” terrorizing the offenders with fatwas and rioting.
There is no fear of Christian militant Crusadists walking up to Andres Serrano and stabbing him to death over Piss Christ.
However, a few points:
1) We are not in the middle of a war with Christian religious radical extremist militants where winning hearts and minds of the Christian majority is a major part of waging a global counterinsurgency effort.
2) Just because one can ridicule Christians and Jews and get away with it does not make it right to do so. One should, in general, be respectful of others. Be the example. The line of reasoning that argues “We’ll let a mosque be built here as soon as they allow churches and synagogues to be built at Mecca and Medina” are just juvenile and self-serving tit for tats. Why would we choose to be “more like them”? So arguing that we should burn Korans because others are able to desecrate things held sacred by Jews and Christians and get away with it is just a weak, childish, vindictive, gratuitous form of being what you profess to hate. Who are we really hurting here?
We shouldn’t have to tip-toe on eggshells around a particular religion and give special preferential treatment to it, not extended to the other faiths. However, the reality also remains that one of the three major faiths does have an anger management problem amongst a sizable minority of its practitioners and we are in the middle of a war. A war that requires the winning of hearts and minds and the marginalization of the more radical elements of Islam from the more moderate elements of Islam.
We have Muslim allies in our war. They and our enemy share the same Holy Book. But their reading of it differs. How does burning their Holy Book hurt our enemy and not our allies?
Interestingly enough, one of my friends who is French Muslim-American, posted a CNN video interview of Terry Jones a couple of weeks ago on her FB wall. Every single one of her Muslim friends merely laughed or was dismissive, expressing a “turn the other cheek” sentiment in their comments. No stereotypical Islamic rage here. One might call their reaction a very typical “Christian” response. They’d probably disagree and say they are being “Islamic” in their tolerance (Believe it or not, cynicism and derision aside, Sumbul Ali-Karamali talks about tolerance in Islam in her book, “The Muslim Next Door”).
I do not believe that desecration of the Koran hurts bin Laden and Zawahiri in the slightest. I do believe that they welcome- they beg for “International Burn a Koran Day” to occur….because it plays right into their propaganda playbook.
Just because we can…..should we?
A handwritten Koran is displayed during an exhibition in Malacca, Malaysia January 12, 2008. You Witness News/Aizuddin Saad
A former fetus, the “wordsmith from nantucket” was born in Phoenix, Arizona in 1968. Adopted at birth, wordsmith grew up a military brat. He achieved his B.A. in English from the University of California, Los Angeles (graduating in the top 97% of his class), where he also competed rings for the UCLA mens gymnastics team. The events of 9/11 woke him from his political slumber and malaise. Currently a personal trainer and gymnastics coach.
The wordsmith has never been to Nantucket.
I see the never ending Islam battles still rage. And, of course, that there is no separation between jihad and other Muslims. Everyone is either an OBL, or a closet OBL for all too many.
Frankly, it’s no surprise to me that Petraeus finds his job just that much harder with the anti-Islam (not jihad) rhetoric on the rise in the US.
Rides A Pale Horse #6, I might point out that while the troops are certainly in harms way under normal circumstances, such blanket anti-Islam events going on here have effect on those Afghans (and Iraqis) that choose to work with the US troops in concert in the theatre. When they (the Muslim allies that few of you think exist…) start questioning whether the US is at war with jihad, or with Islam itself, the waters get muddied more than usual. And now those in the US military inner circle have a greater probability of questionable trust. That cannot help but translate to a higher degree of risk in an already dangerous theatre.
At the risk of sounding like Capt. Jack Sparrow, do you wave at those moments of irony as they pass you by?
Let’s give you a different angle on the same train of thought. Where’s the American “moderates” condemning the burning of a religious book just so they can offend a minority of violent Islam?
Where’s the “moderates” condemning those who protest the building of mosques anywhere, and not just at ground zero?
Where’s the “moderates” condemning the destruction of the TN mosque?
There’s a few of us here over the course of months, trying to caution the bounds of rhetoric… yet we are abused and disdained for doing so. Just like Wordsmith’s post, pointing out Muslims who have condemned 911, the “moderates” in Islam are brushed off like pesky flies and dismissed. But get serious… rather hypocritical to complain enough “moderate” voices don’t speak up in Islam, and then ignore the hyperbole that consumes all of a religion.
And no… I don’t wish to engage in another elongated debate about how so many infidels are more knowledgeable about the Qu’ran than practicing Muslims, and whether they are “true” Muslims because they don’t seek to kill/convert, as the infidel dictates they are supposed to do. We’ve been there, done that since the beginning of June, and I’d say most of us regulars have figured out where we all are on the war on jihad vs war on Islam debate.
But in the interests of perspectives, let’s flip the Qu’ran bonfire around. What if some fanatical progressives decided to burn the Constitution? Would we see the same nonchalant reaction from many we see here?
Or would you condemn then for doing so, even while recognizing their “rights”?
The “condemnation” is the key. Are rights more treasured because you share the dissent by the protesters? Apparently so. And yet it’s the rights that eat at our craw that the founding fathers were so insistent be protected. The rights of those we disagree with, not agree with.
The fly in your soup, AdrianS, is assuming you are the Chief SCOTUS Justice of what is worthy of being burned, or not. Once you decide that it’s okay to burn books that you consider “evil”, you have now appointed some power to decide what was evil.
Again I say, the Founders and Framers knew very well that protecting the rights of those with unpopular opinions was tantamount for freedom.
I have issues with both approaches you take here, drjohn.
First of all, the Cordoba House and Qu’ran bonfire are not legal apples and apples. Both events have hoops to hurdle before they can take place. The Cordoba House went thru the local planning procedures and got the go ahead.
The Qu’ran bonfire has the right to assemble, but not to burn. Has nothing to do with morality, and everything to do with Florida being a tinderbox at the end of summer, and the risk of major fire from an open burn. All gatherings have to get needed resources for safety and amenities… from Honey Buckets to adequate police protection. Even Beck’s rally pulled and complied with the needed permits.
So Cordoba House is a right with all necessary permits. The Qu’ran bonfire is a right, but not with the necessary permits because it endangers others’ rights and property. Yet, as of today’s news, they appear to want to press forward… fire department approval be damned.
On your second attempt at a hypocritical “gotcha”, no one has *ever* said disapproving of Cordoba House is something you are not “supposed” to do. In fact there is little disagreement INRE it being a really poor and distasteful choice. And requesting restraint in anti-Islam rhetoric has never been (from me, at least) about offending Muslims, but in the interest of some further accomplishment… i.e. not painting the tea party and conservative movement as anti-islam before an important midterm, and not endangering our troops attempting to recruit Muslim aids in the war. It’s only about “offense” to you, I guess.
But oh that it was only confined to Cordoba House, and not a campaign issue for GOP candidates in various states – opposing their local mosques no where near GZ.
The big picture many of you (generic, not individual specific) fail to see is that the common thread in these events lies in a protest not against those that attacked the US on 911, or even against the global Islamic jihad movements…. but are protests against all of Islam in general. And it is this attitude that makes it difficult for our troops and ground commanders to enlist locals in the battle theatre, and be more assured of their trust and intent. Like OT says, “… stupid shit has consequences”.
Again, I suggest you mentally switch the books, and visualize the wide net it encompasses when someone burns the Constitution…. or the Bible…. or any other book that others personally revere.
Now maybe many of you get smug satisfaction in telling all Muslims what you think of them. Me? I happen to think the repercussions far outweigh the personal satisfaction you may derive. Certainly I won’t impose on your rights to express umitigated, blanket hatred. But I’ll also be the first to call you out on it, and if or when consequences happen as a result, I’ll be happy to remind you of the warning you chose to ignore just so you could feel good for a moment.
And speaking of Petraeus and our troops, I’m seriously disappointed at some of the remarks here about a stellar General that… not oh so long ago… the same of you were incensed when he was treated badly by the Dems and Congressional members.
Apparently, now that you don’t agree with him, he’s ostracized as a bad guy. For shame.
His concern and focus is on both our troops safey and effectiveness to win a war that wages not only with guns, but with intel and diplomatic channels. I take what he says with great aplomb because he’s there, and sees the effect one on one. And such commentary against one who deserves not only our respect, but our support, is despicable.
http://www.naijarules.com/vb/news-current-affairs-politics/26124-execution-nigerian-men-women.html
Please see the above link. Public execution is normal in Saudi Arabia, it is typically carried out on Friday, in the public square of the communities where the prisioner is being held in custody. These executions are sentences carried out under Shari’a law as dictated by the Koran. Other punishments include stoning, cutting off of hands, and lashings. The determination of the punishment is by religious judges that are appointed by and under the auspices of Shari’a law.
The Koran, be it in the form of a written document, IMHO, is NOT a book.
It is time for those in this “isolated” seqment of the globe that we call the United States to say NO!!! NO to Islam!!! No to the Muslim LIARS!!! No to the murderers of their OWN people.
The United States just does not comprehend the CULTURE of ISLAM. It is beyond our comprehension and the only way to stop the propogation of the heinous evil that it represents is to SAY NO!!
NO!!! NO!!!
IF burning the KORAN is saying NO . . . then BURN IT!!!
Ref88 – General George S. Patton – Exactly! The good General Petraeus has become pussified in the sevice of the Obama regime. There are no hearts and minds to be won with people who believe in the tenets of the Quran. The person who thought that program up obviously didn’t read that book. Petraeus can best help this country become a safer place when he realizes we are at war with all of Islam and alows our troops to kill the muslims that need to be killed so we can finally get the hell out of there.
I would say I understand the sentiment, but seriously? Burning another religion’s book? It’s childish. A lot of posters have intimated that everything we do offends muslims, and I agree. But still, burning a book is just ignorant. If you want to make a point and really piss them off, have a national “nude women to piss off muslims” day. Hell, I’d take the day off for that. 😉
And on a more serious note, check out this interview of Dr. Jasser. You will not be disappointed. He’s a devout Muslim and a retired U.S. Navy Lt. Commander.
http://dailycaller.com/2010/09/08/8-questions-with-dr-zuhdi-jasser-of-the-american-islamic-forum-for-democracy/
Jasser is, as you say, never a disappointment, Aqua. However the comment below will be very disappointing to the self-annointed Qu’ran experts:
Of course, the good General is part of the same Army brass that looked after the well-being of the troops at Fort Hood by giving a commission to Nidal Hasan, promoting him to Major, and providing him with a very expensive and prestigious education before unleashing him on disarmed soldiers. Pastor Jones should assert that the Koran-incineration is an exhibition of performance art and demand an NEA grant.
I beleive that the fact that the troups have been there so long, had shifted the way they see that war, DID they lost the reason why they are there?. IT might be; the focus of the war,
was destroy the ENNEMIES, and now is modified to get the ennemies to join the KARZEI
group which have been found CORRUPT, and having deals with ennemies,
so they better step back and refocus of why some of the braves are being killed;
and do that soon, IT’S a PRIORITY of WAR STRATEGY.
WHY should this war be to accomodate the MUSLIMS?,just like THE AMERICANS
have been imposed change in all walk of life, in their public testament of their religion,
to accomodate the MUSLIMS; SO not to OFFEND they have public employes to restrain
A preacher to mention JESUS in a prayer publicly,and so on, why do AMERICAN
AND NATO military have to restrain the war?.
THEY better step back, and refocus, BECAUSE our soldiers are not EXPANDEBLE ANYMORE than the ENNEMIES and CIVILENS of the warzone, LET IT BE VERY clear TO ALL CONCERNED.
Tammy said:
I too am in agreement with the author of this article. There is no good in burning books. It makes us look like zealots. This is never the answer.
Of course not…except for when they are burning Bibles,Cruzifixes and American flags!!!!
Quran Burning Church Linked To West Baptist Church
So to show them that we’re “better”, we will lower ourselves to their level of behavior.
As Detective Harry Calahan would say:
“Yea… Marvelous.”
PATVANN: hi, I think that AMERICANS have enough of their offensives behavior, and some will use any tool they can to give them the message, because the leader of THIS GREAT AMERICA doesnt do his job to strongly represent AMERICA and confront thoses who want to push their religion of hate in AMERICA, and leave a strong message to the muslims abroad also.
Yes, it’s a spoof.
Yes, it’s pretty funny.
Roll the tape:
This about says it:
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2010/09/let-me-see-if-i-got-this-straight.html
“about says” what, Suek? First of all, America is not Saudi Arabia. And I think you are well aware by now that the opposition to Cordoba House is not confined to only that location, and is now a campaign issue for local GOP candidates, opposing mosques in their backyards.
I’ve still yet to hear anyone do that all important “condemnation” of those that torched the TN mosque location. On the contrary, there’s been a few on these threads who have suggested the same be done for Cordoba House.
suek: hi, this is another of your good link,incredible and leave one disturb about the future
of free countrys, I heard my sister telling me that in the province of QUEBEC,in MONTREAL city, the GOVERNMENT has now put some rules that has passed about the restriction they order to the MUSLIMS where they are allowed or not to wear their burka,and others restrictions too.
that’s one good thing done, they are many of them in the QUEBEC PROVINCE.
bye thank you for the news
I think #112 “ilovebeeswarzone” may have a point.
There is NO country in the West where it is “socially acceptable” to discuss the cultural upheavals caused by allowing great numbers of Muslims to immigrate from their repressive societies into our open and tolerant societies. Islam is dysfunctional when transplanted into the West, and most Muslim immigrants insist on maintaining their familiar customs within Islamic enclaves rather than integrating into Western culture. Yet it is considered improper to comment on their lack of assimilation, or their hostility to the norms of their new country. Some EU nations have passed “hate speech” laws, the rest just rely on media pressure and the declarations of the ruling elites to convince their citizens that they prove themselves narrow-minded, bigoted, and xenophobic if they dare say anything derogatory about Islam or Muslims. “Diversity is essential”, they are told.
Not coincidentally, our own General Casey said much the same thing after the Ft. Hood shooter went on his rampage: “As great a tragedy as this was, it would be a shame if our diversity became a casualty as well.”
What happens when people can’t acknowledge a problem and find a solution for it? What happens when the government, whose duty it is to provide national security, pretends that there’s no reason to pay attention to the one commonality among all the terrorist attacks and attempted attacks that have occurred on our soil since 9/11/01? What happens when honorable citizens are pressured by government and media into ignoring that great big elephant in the middle of the room?
Even though the powers-that-be are apparently arrayed against the common sense of We-The-People, we still are aware that something is wrong with Islam; and we know that the “something” is a danger to us, to our families, and to our country. If our government chooses not to speak and act on our behalf, we are strong enough, stubborn enough, and independent enough to speak and act in what we see as our own best interests, despite the lack of guidance from our leaders.
The various measures we see –of citizens rallying against the perceived evils of Islam in a dozen different ways– is only what you can expect WHEN A FRUSTRATED POPULACE FEELS THEY HAVE NO REPRESENTATION, NO LEADERSHIP, REGARDING A *CRITICALLY* IMPORTANT PROBLEM.
I sure hope GENERAL PETRAUS put the troups on 24 alert and double the rockets ammunitions,
BECAUSE those haters are already on the march with menacing slogans,
and no KORAN have yet to be burn,
so the troops should not have to ask for identification at this point of time,
and forget the roe also, it’s a war and they are not baby sitters,
we want them to do their jobs and finish it and come back to their loveone,
AND GENERAL give them what they need,for it YOU know best what is required.
no
more uncertanty for our braves,let them fight
For your consideration:
Islam is not a religion, it is foreign law
By JR Dieckmann, from RenewAmerica.com
The time has come to question if Islam is protected under our First Amendment rights to freedom of religion. Yes, everyone in America has the right to freedom of religion, but Islam is not a religion. Religious faith is only a part of Islam. The rest is a socially engineered society with its own laws and customs that seriously conflict with American law.
Is Great Britain a religion because they have the Church of England? Of course not. Britain has an established charter, civil and criminal laws, and a society that respects those laws. Islam has the Qur’an that provides the governing charter, complete with laws, punishment, and social behavior for its people in addition to its religious teachings. If Islam is a religion, then Britain is also.
We must recognize that religion is only one aspect of Islam’s Qur’an. The rest of this charter advances ideas, social behavior, and laws that are in direct conflict with American and western laws and values. Teddy Roosevelt once said that to live in America, immigrants must have undivided loyalty to America and to no one else. How is that possible for Muslims who swear loyalty to Islam where their governing laws are found in the Qur’an?
….
Islamists know they cannot destroy us militarily, but they also know that they can do it with political correctness and insisting that we respect their freedom of religion, even though they have no respect for ours. We are extending a welcoming hand to the enemy of our country and western culture under the pretense of religious freedom.
What religion recruits killers and terrorists in their place of worship, then sends them off to foreign training grounds to become proficient at mass murder? I know of only one. They are taught to kill in the name of God, but this is not the law of God who commanded “thou shall not kill” — it is the law of Mohammed who commanded “kill them all who will not convert.”
(emphasis added by me)(for more use link that follows)
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/dieckmann/100901
Petraeus: Church that’s burning Korans on 9/11 is putting U.S. troops at risk; Update: Counter-protests planned
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/09/07/petraeus-church-thats-burning-korans-on-911-is-putting-u-s-troops-at-risk/
Is Barack Obama a traitor?:
Barack Obama made this comment when he wrote in “Dreams Of My Father” — “When the political winds shift in an ugly direction, I will side with the Muslims?”
Now does your mother know Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim?
Get it right or fail forever.
@AdrianS, religion isn’t the only 1st Amendment protection. All free speech, including politics you don’t like, is also covered under the 1st Amendment. So what’s your point? Or do you let Jen Shroder do the deep thinking?
From Old Trooper’s link:
Gee… wonder how many times Muslims have thought that to themselves, when painted the same color as the global Islamic jihad movements? Young Mohammed, the subject of Wordsmith’s post perhaps?
Really, Indigo? “Rioting”? Well maybe I’m missing something, but I see demonstrations, not riots.
Exaggerating for effect much?
@AdrianS:
That’s patently false and deliberately misleading Adrian.
Do some research and, as you say, “Get it right.”
Even if he is a Muslim, what’s your point? Is he prohibited by the Constitution from serving due to his faith, or lack thereof?
The answer is no. There is no religious test for serving in the office of POTUS.
So what, precisely, is your point?
The actual quote from the book (Obama, “Dreams Of My Father”) is from page 261 and is as follows:
“Of course, not all my conversations in immigrant communities follow this easy pattern. In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific reassurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.”
http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2008/02/i-will-stand-wi.html
Got it Right!
No you didn’t.
Care to try again?
BREAKING: Qu’ran Burning Church Linked To Westboro Baptist Church–UPDATED
http://libertypundits.net/article/breaking-quran-burning-church-linked-to-west-baptist-church/
********************************************************
So this info really solidifies the Book Burning Preacher’s stance????
Come on Folks…. this is Jackassery of the lowest order.
AdrianS I’ll help you man. Where in that quote from page 261 do you see the word Muslim.Are you a birther? Do you think you could stand toe to toe with Dave Petraeus?
Just askin
@rich wheeler:
Now rich, don’t go helping Adrian…
I want her to do her own research and come up with her own answers.
It’s so much more fun that way.
About standing toe to toe with Dave Petraeus….
IF all this church wants to do is burn a few korans and yet Gen Petraeus is ordering American men to KILL Muslims every day, WHICH is pissing off Muslims around the world more?
Who really thinks we will buy any tiny bit of goodwill by NOT allowing the Constitutional rights of our own citizens?
Well… uh… er… it’s other Muslims working with the US and NATO forces to kill those bad flavored Muslims because they are holding their villages hostage, Nan G. So the only Muslims ticked about killing jihadists are the other jihadists.
On the flip side, too many Americans are slamming every Muslim as a closet jihad recruit.
… fish in a barrel….
http://www.theonion.com/articles/man-already-knows-everything-he-needs-to-know-abou,17990/
I told an atheist on another thread that I would never attack another man’s religion to avoid being a bore. I am afraid burning the Quran will accomplish nothing except to alienate the few Muslim allies that we have. If that seems a small price to pay, we might think of the intelligence gathering that is so valuable during a war effort and how those assets might be lost or compromised. Wars are not fought strictly from the barrel of a rifle. Intelligence gathering or lack of is measured in blood, the blood of our young patriots.
If another country trashes a symbol that is sacred to the US, they will only strengthen our resolve and create resentment that will last for generations. The benefits of burning a religious book are negligible at best, if they exist.
I trust in Petraeus when he says we will jeopardize American lives and those of our allies by this spiteful act that seems as ludicrous as burning crosses on people’s lawns. Fifty years later, the images of burning crosses, on lawns, only cause shame and remorse for Americans.
We are in the Middle East to kill the enemy, not to enrage a group of people who are uninvolved in the conflict.
AdrianS My apologies asking a lady to stand toe to toe with the good General.I have seen other MALE bloggers question his cajones.You know who you are so the question goes out to you.
A.C. Sorry to spoil your fun. I know how much you enjoy it!
@Patvann:
Who practices book burning?
Well according to Acts chapter 19 in the Bible,
Christians!
@A_Nonny_Mouse #117: Links for you to check out in this comment regarding Muslim immigrants in the U.S. and Europe and how they assimilate:
@MataHarley #123:
Well, I did hear that some protesters began throwing stones….not like we don’t have protesters right here at home who get out of hand when passions run high.
@AdrianS #125:
Even the paragraph you’re giving us takes on a totally different context from the way you chose to characterize it in your comment #121.
Muslim-Americans walking eggshells around “our” sensitivities.
Interesting…
Ground Zero imam: I never would have done it if I knew it would create tensions
It’s the koran FFS. Burn it? Ban it!
Why are so many worried about upsetting and offending muslims who are in a state of perpetual outrage? They will never love us, nor accept us since we are an Infidel nation.
Oh, and Gen. Petreus needs to stay out of domestic matters, especially when he’s condoning the suspension of Constitutional rights that he’s sworn to uphold.
I hate to say it, but the top military brass scare the he11 out of me, they are so d*mned politically correct. (At the USNA, diversity is Job 1!) Patton must be spinning in his grave faster than a water turbine at Hoover Dam.
I don’t want the ‘moral high ground’, I just want air superiority.
And yes, burning the koran is an idiotic stunt to us. But not to our enemies. And if burning it makes our enemies uncomfortable or even pisses them off, then I’ll spring for matches.
Stopping this so-called church from burning the koran is giving in to islam’s blasphemey laws, i.e., shari’a. Hope all the wimenfolk here have been fitted for their burqas.
I’m sorry, but any ‘faith’ or ‘religion’ founded by a caravan robbing, murdering warlord is not much of a religion in my book. One of the main problems with islam in this country is that we never get to the crux of the matter, a discussion of the founder of islam, Ol’ Moe. Many people ask that cute phrase, What Would Jesus Do?, as some sort of logic game. Problem is, we know what Mohammed would do. Now I don’t claim to be a Christian (I went to Catholic school for 12 years), but I can tell you I’d rather have Jesus at my wedding feast when the bar runs out than have Ol’ Moe around swinging his sword with wild abandon. It’s time for a serious national discussion of Ol’ Moe, as he is as far from a Jesus-like, or Buddha-like, figure as can be. Ol’ Moe is ‘the most perfect example of man to mankind for all time’ to muslims and they will kill (at the draw of a khartoon) to protect his long-dead ‘honor’, as if he ever had any. So yes, let’s have that national talk about islam and its place in America, including shari’a, dhimmitude, jazziya, taqiyya, kitman and Ol’ Moe himself.
WORDSMITH: I would not trusth a IMAN or A LEADER if I would detect
that he does not see the consequences possibly coming following his actions;
THEIR position of power to influence the followers specialy of that controversal negative RELIGION,
I tend to beleive that HE knew but thought he could stay in control of the negative outcome of his decision to build,and by doing so ,he showed how arrogant he is and what level of influence he project is indeed DANGEROUS for AMERICANS.
Is Barack Obama a Muslim?:
Barack Obama made this comment when he wrote in “Dreams Of My Father” — the Muslim call to prayer is “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth.”
Now does your father know Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim?
Get it right or fail forever.
Like it or not there is a reaction
Quran burning plan stirs outrage in Muslim world
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100909/ap_on_re_as/quran_burning_reaction
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Was this predictable? Yes.
Anyone who knows the ME had predicted this reaction. Is this something that hinders the Mission? Hell Yes. Does stirring up the Hornet’s Nest benefit the US or NATO in any shape or form? Hell No! Does this business get in the way of stability in the region? Hell Yes! 👿
Stupid Shit has Consequences!
@RickZ:
Yes, why exercise cultural sensitivities while in the middle of a war, trying to convince the Afghan populace that we are indeed “the good guys” and not the Taliban? Why worry about “upsetting and offending” Muslims who take their faith seriously, but who aren’t at war with us? Who don’t embrace the puritanical fundamentalist strain of Islam, who don’t endorse the global jihad movement, which is the one that is at war with modern civilization?
Who is “they”? Because we have Muslim-Americans who love being American and living in this “infidel” nation with the freedom to worship and practice their faith in peace without persecution (except amongst some intolerant right-wingers, apparently).
How is he “condoning the suspension of Constitutional rights”? Perhaps in the same way you’re “condoning the suspension of his Constitutional rights”? This “domestic matter” is affecting “foreign matters”, making the mission in Afghanistan that much more difficult for Petraeus and company.
Actually, our enemies, are probably ready to hand you the matches because the Taliban and the global jihad movement most likely see this as a propaganda bonanza for them. These are the ones who have no qualms at firing from behind mosques, strapping on suicide vests when suicide is forbidden in Islam, murdering innocent women and children, murdering other Muslims…basically these takfiri terrorists find justifications for their actions in things other than the Koran. Qutb, Taymiyyah….it’s all about interpretation and power politics.
No, it’s giving in to our own sense of decency and in not undermining the efforts of those engaged on the war front.
What percentage of the Islamic populace embraces the wearing of burqas anyway, RickZ?
@ilovebeeswarzone #143: Correct me if I’m wrong, but the announcement for Cordoba House was announced in December of 2009, no? And for around 2 months or so, not a peep of protest or outrage. Laura Ingraham interviewed Daisy Khan about it, and even wished her luck, or something to that effect (I linked to the YouTube interview a number of times back when). Then the Islamophobe, Pamela Geller, and Robert Spencer begin making it an issue, followed by the politicians once they smelled potential votes in the mood of “the mob”.
Maybe the imam is just that “naive” to have believed there would not have been this kind of vehement uproar? This is a guy who does not see al Qaeda as “Islamic” in their attacks; who probably believes in the values of this nation when it speaks of “freedom of religion” and the liberal concept of “diversity”. So I can see how he might have been “naive” and underestimated the backlash and inability of some vocal Americans to separate the difference between those who attacked us and those who did not. He does not identify Islamic terrorists on September 11th as being Islamic in their actions. Many of us do identify the “Islamic” in the action of Islamic terrorists that day, with some placing the emphasis on “Islamic” more so than others.
@AdrianS #144:
In the words of Dick Cheney….”So?”
Maybe Obama has bad taste in musical sounds?
I can see non-Muslims appreciating the sound; those who hold no hostility toward the religion and appreciate anyone who embraces spiritual worship and polishing of the soul through religious faith.
I’m not Christian, yet I love the religiosity and rituals of the Christian faith. And I love both the religious and secular traditions of Christmas and Easter. I’m not religiously hostile and draw comfort from those who have a deep belief in a higher power and try to live their lives to become a better person. So I don’t make fun of church bells but appreciate that when people are sitting in church, that it’s probably a good thing.
I knew a woman who embraced spirituality in general and kept a Holy Cross hung on her bedroom wall, a Koran reverentially displayed on her dresser next to a Torah, and a little Buddhist shrine. And these were only the things instantly visible. She’s probably the kind who also sports one of those COEXIST bumperstickers.
Wordsmith,
That Rauf clown of GZ Victory Mosque fame is now threatening us. If he moves the mosque, muslims will riot. If it stays, muslims will have their 2nd triumph at GZ. I’ll take Hobson’s Choice # 1, thankyouverymuch.
Sorry, but I know we are in a centuries-old war, not a 9-year-old one. People seem to forget the very first war the US was involved in after gaining our Independence. It was not with England, but with the Barbary Pirates, the muslim beys of North Africa. Jefferson had a koran not for multi-culti political correctness but to understand the mindset of the enemy we faced in that area of the globe; the koran is so much more than a religous book as it covers the political, social and military arenas. Through Independence, we had lost the protection of the British Navy and were on our own. We were paying the jizziya, but the payment kept going up and there was no end in sight. After studying the koran, Jefferson realized that continuing the payment of the jizziya was a fool’s game, so he sent the Navy and the Marines to stop the BS. It worked then, it’ll work now. We’re just having a most difficult time wrapping our collective 21st Century minds around having to fight a religious war, because we don’t want to; we thought we left them behind ages ago. Yet here we are. While we may not want to be in a religious war with islam, islam is in a religious war with us. It only takes one side to make a war religous in nature, and that decision has been made for — and thrust upon — us. Our choice now is to accede to islamic demands for respect/tolerance/whatever or fight. I say fight, and allah take the hindpart.
The anecdotal evidence you provide is just that. There is also the anecdotal evidence of a muslim soldier who volunteered after 9/11 who now wishes to obtain CO status because he can’t, in good conscience, fight muslims. Just who did he think was our enemy after 9/11? Amish suicide buggy drivers?
Ol’ Moe’s words are most appropriate to remember: War is deception. I do not fall for islam’s deceptions. YMMV and apparently it does.
ETA: I also notice you failed to comment on the central character within islam, Ol’ Moe himself. His place in all this is most important. Is he really a religous figure in your eyes? Because, to me, he’s just as “religous” a figure as a Charlie Manson is. We will never change the islamic love and adoration for Ol’ Moe, yet he is the driving force behind the very jihad we currently face. Muslims rioted and killed over khartoons of him. Some religion. (Where’s that Piss Mohammed when you need it?) We can never satisfy the ever increasing demands of muslims, so I want us to not even bother trying. The lesson from history is that appeasement did not work in 1938; it will not work today.
@AdrianS:
Once again, I’ll ask you the questions from #124 that you ignored:
No, he didn’t.
Once again, you need to do some research and “Get it right.”
Oh, and you still haven’t cleared up your error here either.
Would we be outraged if barbarians desecrated holy Christian sites and ancient Christian texts? Yes, we would be outraged. They would not make us fear their awesome power and depravity through such stupid and insensitive acts; conversely, we would hate them and intensify our efforts to kill them and obliterate their presence on the earth.
You should realize that young Americans who are actually standing on the wall will suffer the consequences of these cowardly acts and when the first Americans die, because of this senseless act and your support, their blood will be on your hands. Blood doesn’t wash away that easily and those that have spilled blood often feel that blood on their hands for decades. Every time they wash their hands they can feel the blood spurting up their arms once again. That is the blood of our enemies, the blood of young patriots will never wash away.
This preacher’s self-righteous act of cowardice is pathetic, if he wants to do battle with the Muslim he should go to the ME and make his views known instead of making an ass of himself and expecting our young Patriot children to protect him with their lives. He should have the courage of his convictions and go to Kabul and burn books and not ask young Americans to die for his cowardly acts of stupidity.
The cat is out of the bag and there is nothing we can do except delay the inevitable. Burning books, especially a religious tome such as the Qu’ran is detestable and repugnant but it is LEGAL in the U.S.A.To burn any book or item as a political statement within local fire regulations.
Sure, we can Violate this individuals Constitutionally protected right to do so in deference to the dictates of the largely illiterate Muslim Masses world wide. But there will be copy cat Qu’ran burners and the match will be lit any way regardless.
We should get out of Af-Pak A.S.A.P. Our brave warriors are hamstrung by the R.O.E. that proscribe any hope of victory. Only the guaranteed increase in flag draped coffins returning home for their last trip. Under current conditions we are going to leave the country in chaos no matter what strategy our Military has short of all out war. We are fighting with rules that only Liberal anti-war academics can feel comfortable with while they drink their Chablis and eat their Brie, discussing the Socialist agenda they have planned for this great Nation.
Face facts on the ground. These people will find any excuse to hate us for all of our accomplishments.They are relentless in their objectives and the will be no won “hearts and minds” no matter what we do or say. This entire region used to have many Christian and Jewish and Bahai, Hindu, Buddhist and other faiths living there but all have left over the last 100 years due to persecution and taxation. The Educated classes flee as soon as they can and all you have left is people who only know one book, the Qu’ran. Their true colors come out over an event like this.
Just as a drunk says what he is really thinking with out inhibitions, those drunk with religious extremism express what they really think when imbibed with these calls to hate from their Imams.
There is no current “solution”, only separation.
Best wishes to all.
Obama’s father was Muslim, therefore, Barack Obama is Muslim. Barack Obama’s religion is not of concern in the following.
Being that Obama’s father was not a citizen of the United States at the time Barack Obama was born, Barack Obama is NOT a natural born citizen and therefore not legitimately qualified to be president of the United States. Simply a fly in the ointment.
Say it isn’t so. However it is a Constitutional imperative that the president be a natural born citizen.
Thus, Barack Hussein Obama, for whatever illegitimate reason, is a usurper. And, when the majority of people (Obama’s popularity rating is down to just 41% and going down fruther) get tired of his trash; they will throw his ass out of office. You can’t impeach a person who is not a legitimate presidential office holder, so Obama would have to be simply arrested, jailed and tried for fraud.
Get it right.
@RickZ #147:
How is this “threatening us”? I posted the video interview up for people to judge for themselves.
But what he says is something Mata and I have been saying for a long time, now: That at this point, due to the amount of coverage, due to vitriolic tone the debate’s taken, we’re basically “damned if we do, damned if we don’t”. We’re in a “lose-lose” situation.
Because of the nature of the opposition that confuses Islam itself as having attacked us rather than takfiri terrorists who are Islamic; because of the expressed pain of 9/11 family members who oppose, because there are so many Americans who’d regard this GZM as a “victory monument”, then the global jihad movement- the ones who are at war with us- can claim it as a “victory monument”, even though it didn’t have to be such. We give them that power over us by how we chose to perceive this Park51 project.
If the Project gets successfully derailed, then the global jihad movement can also call it a victory, propagandizing and pointing out to Muslims that they are right: America is against Islam, is persecuting Muslims; come join us in Jihad. That was al Qaeda’s message to the Muslim world. But they failed to rally most Muslims to take up their clarion call to jihad. So now we’re shoving potential recruits into their “loving” embrace, doing for bin Laden and Zawahiri what they themselves failed in doing.
That’s exactly the thinking of bin Laden and Zawahiri and the global jihad movement. Are they right? You agree with them on this?
Not I.
But were corsairs who happened to be Islamic, engaged in piracy on the high seas out of religious fervor and jihad, or was it something else? In the absence of Islam, would their actions have been any different?
Just as I’m not going to argue every single sura and ayat. Your opinion of Mohammed is not the same opinion of those who revere him as the final Prophet, just as your take on the Koran is not the same one held by those who practice the faith.
@AdrianS:
Again, the questions you’re ignoring:
Why such a difficult time just answering in a straightforward fashion?
Are you even remotely, or vaguely, or even somewhat familiar with US citizenship law? Obviously not.
By the way, the false information you posted here and here remains uncorrected.
SHHhhh! Mustn’t wake up our somnambulent Supreme Court. Besides, as mere
subjectscitizens of this Country, we don’t even have the standing to bring the issue up to the Court.