This is just beyond asinine. (h/t doubleplusundead)
Sun columnist Jon Ralston is reporting that the Tea Party has qualified as a third party in Nevada and will have a candidate in the Senate race to battle for the seat held by Majority Leader Harry Reid.
The party has filed a Certificate of Existence but needs to get 1 percent of the electorate to vote for its candidate in November to permanently qualify, according to the report.
Ralston reported that Jon Ashjian will be the Tea Party’s U.S. Senate candidate on the November ballot. Ashjian still must declare his candidacy.
Awesome…..this goes a long way towards ensuring Harry Reid stays the Senator of that State.
Look, I’m all for the tea party being a force behind conservatives and agree with much that they stand for but dammit….making a third party is just a recipe for disaster. A complete and utter disaster.
UPDATE
Many thanks to the Freepers who have investigated this Tea Party of Nevada group:
Dr. Sid James, Chairman
Curtis Atwood, Vice Chairman (Atwood Building & Development (LV), contractor)
Eric Scholer, Second Vice Chairman (Scholer Steele & Associates (LV), insurance)
Barry Levinson, Secretary (Personal injury/bankruptcy attorney and former attorney for John Wayne Bobbitt)
Daniel Hayden, Treasurer
Kiana Hayden, At Large Member
Romy Ashjian, At Large Member
Keith Ozawa, At Large Member (President of American Leak Detection, Las Vegas, Nevada)
Jim Ebel, At Large Member
Larry Lathum, At Large Member
More on this Keith Ozawa:
Leland Keith Ozawa, Jr. (CRD #2119830, Registered Representative, Las Vegas, Nevada) submitted a Letter of Acceptance, Waiver, and Consent in which he was fined $5,000 and suspended from association with any NASD member in any capacity for two months. Without admitting or denying the allegations, Ozawa consented to the described sanctions and to the entry of findings that he participated in private securities transactions without providing prior written notice to, and receiving written approval from, his member firm.
Ozawa’s suspension began October 21, 2002, and will conclude at the close of business December 20, 2002. (NASD Case #C02020046)
A bit more:
Looks like Scholer and the Haydens are related:
http://kalamareunion.blogspot.com/
Kiana Hayden: http://kianaonp90x.blogspot.com/
“Dr.” Sid James (that kind of waving of useless credentials screams third party jerk to me) doesn’t have much of a web footprint.
Bottom line: They seem to all be related or connected via real estate in Las Vegas (except maybe the lawyer). There’s virtually nothing that can be found about them, including activity in the Tea Party itself.
Thanks to Freepers Amishdude and Pan_Yan for their excellent research
Just based on the limited research from the Freepers it’s looking more and more like this “candidate” and his group are hijacking the Tea Party name.
UPDATE
Mata looked into the group herself and came up with a few more interesting facts on the ambulance chaser. Looks like he also enjoys suing the LVPD:
Guy with broken neck due to arrest “abuse” and a chopped video tape.. where they settled
http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=7751723
Here’s another in 2002 that he sued the police on behalf of a guy who’s DNA got mixed up with his cellmates (note, he was already serving a sentence when the cellmate accused Levinson’s plaintiff of rape, and they obtained both their DNA samples). Then the alleged raper got nailed for a year’s sentence based on the DNA later….
This chairman, Dr. Sid James, is pretty much invisible on the net. So is pretty much every person in the group. No political papertrail to follow.
This is some group that has used the tea party name for their own benefit.
UPDATE
Now we are starting to get an idea about whose benefit they are working for…..why, the Paulbots. The Neveda News Bureau has done an excellent job of culling together bits and pieces:
Here are some snippets from my research so far:
Barry Levinson was part of the “Bush Lied, People Died” cabal (very strange creds for a Tea Party guy).
Not really core to the story but one of the principals, Larry Lathum, appears to be a 9/11 Truther.
~~~And from another (Nevada) source:
“The party’s candidate Jon Scott Ashjian has connections with Brittain Ashjian; both are listed on each others LLC’s docs with the state. (Go to http://nvsos.gov/sosentitysearch/CorpSearch.aspx and do an office search on Ashjian). A lot of the officers and resident agents for Ashjian are also “officers” for the Party. This just smells…
The Ashjian’s have listings for over 10 LLC’s including the following names:
Bada-Bling, LLC
W.I.T. Bro, LLC AKA AA Paving.
24/Construction, LLC
W.S.C.I. LLC
Two Amigos, LLC
Cajun Express, LLC
Squidman, LLC
The 1720, LLC
TNT Energy Products, LLC
RNC Properties, LLCAlmost all of the LLC’s have various registered agents or officers with address of 4485 N. RAINBOW, Las Vegas.
~~~A search of the Contractor’s Board website rendered these results re: a complaint and pending hearing & action re: Tea Party of Nevada candidate Jon Ashjian:
License Number: 0038420
Current Date: 02/15/2010 04:36 PM(mm/dd/yyyy)
Business Primary Name: JON SCOTT ASHJIAN DBA
License Monetary Limit: $250,000.00
Fictitious Business Name: A & A ASPHALT PAVING COMPANY
Business Address: 4485 N RAINBOW BLVD, LAS VEGAS, NV 89108
Phone Number: (702)891-9111
Status: Summary Suspension
Status Date: 02/03/2010 (mm/dd/yyyy)
Origin Date: 11/02/1994 (mm/dd/yyyy)
Expiration Date: 11/30/2010 (mm/dd/yyyy)
Business Type: Individual
Classification(s): A-8 – SEALING & STRIPING OF ASPHALTIC SURFACES
A12 – EXCAVATING GRADING TRENCHING & SURFACING
A16 – PAVING STREETS,DRIVEWAYS & PARKING LOTS
Principal Name Relation Description: ASHJIAN, JON SCOTT Owner Qualified Individual
Bonds
Bond Type: Surety Bond
Bond Number: FS7782036
Bond Agent: HUDDLESON, KATHLEEN A
Surety Company: GREAT AMERICAN INSURANCE COMPANY
Bond Amount: $15,000.00
Effective Date: 09/15/2006 (mm/dd/yyyy)
Cancellation Date: 03/28/2010 (mm/dd/yyyy)
Disciplinary Actions
Date: 12/29/2009 (mm/dd/yyyy)
Discipline Type:
Discipline document: Pending – Disciplinary action is pending against this licensee in the form of a Disciplinary Hearing.
Number Of Complaints: 1 complaint is associated with this action.
Notice: The pending action alleges the following violations. Upon final adjudication some violations or cases may be found to be without merit.
Violation(s): NRS 624.3013(3) Failure to establish financial responsibility, NRS 624.3016(1) Fraudulent or deceitful act
Action(s): Pending Adjudication.
The information contained on these pages are provided as a courtesy and may not reflect recent changes or updates. Neither the completeness nor accuracy is guaranteed. The Nevada State Contractors Board shall have no liability or responsibility for loss and damages arising from the information provided or retrieved from these pages.
No telling if this is legit or not until the Board makes their final call. Will keep an eye on it and keep you posted.
~~~As reported by Ralston over the weekend and as shown in that list of LLCs above, there is also a Jon Ashjian listed as the resident agent of TNT Energy Products, LLC. The address for that entity is the same as for A&A Asphalt Paving Company. Which is the same as the address for the office of Barry Levinson.
Go to the website for more including a statement from Barry Levinson.
Either way, the Bush Lied People Died and 911 Twoofer kinda of people scream, absolutely SCREAM Paulbot to me.
See author page
Mike: Liberal/Progressive/Democrats have formed the majority of our representatives in American government on a federal level and in most of our largest states for generations. Most Americans believe in and support liberal/progressive policies on a mass scale…i.e. social security, public schools, safety net spending of all types, reproductive choice, gun control, progressive taxation, civil rights, equal rights for women, etc. Conservative policies, i.e. privatization of social security, de-funding public schools, anti-civil rights and gender equality, etc., on the other hand, have long been out of favor in America. And polls show that the vast majority of Americans favor either a single payer health insurance plan in the USA, or a robust public option. So, I think that the majority of Americans, regardless of how they label themselves, support progressive/liberal policies. Don’t you?
In any case, Senator Reid WILL be re-elected, President Obama WILL be re-elected, and the so-called Tea Party will always be at the margins of mainstream political thought in this country. While Republicans may have some off-year election gains this year, Republicans will NEVER have 60 votes in the Senate. Neither Palin nor any other teabagger-type will ever be elected president of the USA. I’d be surprised if the number of people calling themselves Republicans ever reaches 20% again. And, I’d be even more surprised if anyone claiming allegiance to any Tea Party is ever elected to national office in the USA.
On the other hand, President Obama is not the last Democratic president you’ll ever see, Democrats will probably be the majority in the Congress for the majority of this century just like they were the majority of the last century, etc.
Most Americans simply love their country and their government far more than do the teabaggers.
@Keith A. Grimes: Do you really believe the majority of Americans support a progressive agenda?
If so, put down the crack pipe before commenting again.
The only way Harry Reid will win is if the conservative/tea party movement splits.
And frankly, when you say “Most Americans simply love their country and their government far more than do the teabaggers ” you just expose yourself as another of the America haters we are going to defeat. We don’t need that kind of crap here.
Maybe we should ask which “country” you love? Venezuela?
@Inspectorudy: Greta Van Susteren had an interview with Tea Partiers who met with Steele today. They don’t claim to lead the Tea Parties, but do represent people from their various Tea Party groups.
But back to Nevada for a moment. Another of the businesses run by this new group is a strip club:
http://www.ibaddabing.com/index.php
Isn’t this kind of tawdry business usually the realm of slimeball Dems?
Mike: Yes, I do believe that the majority of Americans support a liberal agenda. Once you’ve gotten rid of social security, medicare, public schools, gun control, open borders, civil rights laws, voting rights laws, reproductive choice, etc., please get back to me.
I don’t smoke crack, but I do belong to the oldest and largest political party in the USA. I guess that qualifies me to state an opinion.
Don’t count Senator Reid out. His Republican opposition is pretty weak and divided, our Republican governor in Nevada (Gibbons) has a favorability rating of something like 15%, our Republican Senator (Engisn) is an absolute joke, and our State Legislature and largest county government is dominated by Democrats.
Love of country entails far more than waving flags and racist signs. Besides, like President Chavez of Venezuela, you seem to want to silence those who disagree with you.
Question: Wouldn’t a person who loves freedom support the freedom for a person to operate a “strip club?” Or, do you support a government crack-down of strip clubs in America?
All the folks who sat out elections in 2006 and 2008 to teach the GOP a lesson. . .how’s all that hope n change thing working for you?
So by re-electing Harry Reid — you will prove your point? At what cost to Nevada and our country? No wonder Nobama is going there this week to campaign for Reid — those Marxists must be popping champaign corks with opposition seemingly split!
@Keith A. Grimes: a “victim” of typical public education under the likes of Ayers…..
Tell me, Keith Grimes of the “oldest and largest political party” in the nation. Is today’s Democrat party the party of the anti-Hamiltonians? Are they even the party of JFK??
A rose by any other name.
But I tell you what… you continue to rest easy in your notion that “…it doesn’t seem that this rightwing movement is much of a threat.” I love sneaking up on the unsuspecting.
@Keith A. Grimes: Straw men are your specialty I see.
But really… the majority of Americans support a liberal agenda?
How high are you?
Have you seen the polls on Obama’s health care?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html#polls
INRE the source of this new “Tea Party”… a name not copyrighted by a grassroots movement…
Here’s the ugly reality….
The PaulBots already have the Libertarian Party. They don’t need another party competing against that pipedream.
Politically, there’s only one person to gain from an “official” third party, playing off a popular grass roots movement. That’s a desperate Harry Reid.
The site you referenced has added nothing save to check the local CCB for complaints. Nice they figured he was a contractor, mind you (live in Nevada and have inside knowledge?). But whoop de doo…. What does that mean? Nothing.
The “bush lied” screams liberal or progressive. The 911 truthers? That one goes hard left and less hard right. Can you say the name of Obama’s bud and appointee, Van Jones? Yeah… he’s a real rightwinger….
Gee… he’s out of a job… lives in Oakland, CA. Wonder if he has a new idea for a money making biz in NV? All of which may explain Prozac Keith’s complacence INRE Reid’s election status. You know anything Keith? Or just a dumb bunny pass-the-info type? Hitting real close to home and your personal back yard, don’t you think?
I’m seeing hard left roots here as the common ground… not Paulbots fighting their own libertarian movement (where most come from…)
Just one girl’s opine.
Keith, do you know what projection is? Look it up because you are staggeringly guilty of it. As you are just another mentally ill lefty, I won’t waste more time on you.
The only poll that counts is the one take on election day.
I keep seeing all these polls that support conservative principles. One I’ve been hearing about is how “Americans oppose abortion or Roe v. Wade by 60%…” or last week one came out saying how Americans were “Opposed to big government…”.
But the problem is that usually on election day they vote for bigger government and for infanticide.
So let’s stick to the reality of election results shall we?
wow you guys need to make up your mind. If you want to embrace the tea party movement the ron paul agenda comes with it. your not going to be able to hijack it into something else and if thats what your are trying to do… find a new movement.
You’re missing the point, playwithfire…. this is neither the tea party grassroots movement, nor the PaulBots. The unofficial grassroots movement has no desire to start a party. The PaulBots wouldn’t abandon the libertarians and their more advanced inroads to start another party.
Only one person benefits from a NV 3rd party… Reid. Note self-confessed progressive commenter, Keith A. Grime’s celebration. This is, after all, his back yard. Does that tell you anything?
Consider that every entity they put on the officers and exec committee list are total unknowns to any involved in the NV tea party rallies. Tell you a bit more? How about that many recognize Barry Levinson as a Dem lawyer. Hummm… real head scratcher… Truther roots? Pure Van Jones.
But I’d say the genuine fiscal revolters that make up the heart of the grassroots movement already see thru this charade. They’re pretty aware of who their movers and shakers are. And their internet communications internally should slam this door shut fast.
In the long run, it will turn out to be just another business name/SOS filing by a bunch of people who pretty much make their living filing business licences. Levinson has 158 business entities, of a variety of business, in various active to defunct statuses alone. Wonder what paralegal service he uses? ahem….
Speaking of “Paulbots”, Mata….
some of my favorite coinages:
“Ronulans”
“Paul Pots”
“Ron Paul Reverists”
and
“Paul Bearers”
I think there were more we were using at FA in 2008….oh, what fun times!
AmericanVoter,
But boy, we’re really, really goin’ teach them this time! Just you wait! You’ll see! Brilliant plan, we’re going to defeat every Republican so America can see how bad the liberals are. Then in about – what did Glenn Beck say – 100 years we’ll take back the country and straighten every thing out. That’ll teach ’em!
If you can’t see how diabolically clever this is, you must be really dumb – just like me. Get a clue! The Obama stuff is working out great – after all he’s taking America down into the pits, isn’t he? Besides, he’s SO strong on protecting our borders and getting rid of illegals, who cares about defense, terrorism, the economy or health care? If we can only get Obama elected for a second term, we’ll have the liberals running scared.
MataHarley: To begin with, there is no Democrat party. But, to answer your question…unlike Republicans and Teabaggers, Progressives don’t live in the 18th Century, or even in the 20th Century. As for the threat that the extreme right might someday take power in the USA…dream on…it just isn’t going to happen.
I think the rest of the brighter FA gang got my “Democrat Party” nuance, Keith A. Grimes… even if it slid over your head. You wander in with disrespect and insinuations of racism, and you expect respect in return?
Altho you are no Democrat. You are a progressive. Progressives don’t have a party, unless you wish to switch to the CPUSA. You have just temporarily seized the reins of the what used to be a party of JFK. I do believe your own card carrying peers are a bit miffed….
There is no “Teabaggers” party either… even with your bud, Levinson’s latest filing. Revelation….
As I said, I’m quite content for you to rest easy about we evil “right wingers” and tea party fiscal types. Don’t you fret at all….. heh
Mike: Speaking of strawman, your continued references to my drug use (of which you know absolutely nothing) is the ultimate strawman.
Left unsaid in your “statistics” about opposition to health insurance reform is the idea that a huge percentage of people of people in opposition to the present plan oppose the present plan because it doesn’t contain a public option…or better yet, single payer insurance.
Hard right…I’m not sure I get your attack. But, I do find it pretty typical that the extreme right wing finds it non-productive to engage in dialog with those who might disagree. This explains, in part, why the extreme right is forever destined to be in the extreme minority.
Ivan: Can you direct me to one of those polls that shows that 60% of Americans favors repeal of Roe v. Wade?
@Keith A. Grimes: There you go with the “Tea baggers” again.
Perhaps we ought to come up with a sexual epithet to describe you and your progressive ilk.
Obviously you don’t live in the real world but some socialist bubble where your fantasies come to life.
And oh yea, the opinion polls which show such low support for the Dems health care plan are because it lacks a public option? You’re smoking something all right.
@skat: You nailed it. The problem with letting the Dems have even more control is that they permit an invasion of illegals given voting rights, overturning laws prohibiting felons from voting and a generation of ACORN subsidies from the Federal govt. there would never be another free election.
But at least the purists could still do what they do best: complain. Actually, that’s about all any of them have EVER done.
@Mike’s America:
In one sentence he goes from being wounded that Mata would use Democrat without the ick… to using a vile reference when bringing up the Tea Party movement, repeat, all within one sentence. Leaves me to believe he would be reduced to tears should anyone use a vile sexual term when referencing the democrats.
Just read an article the other day about the whining dems and their snit about that and them having no qualms about using the other term and presto! this one shows up to prove the point.
BTW Keith W. Grimes, I used to be a democrat, probably a lot longer than you. It was democrat then and as far as I’m concerned, democrat now.
Mike: Ilk? When I see people with multiple tea bags on their hats, etc., I think of teabaggers. What do you think of? (For me, its not sexual. Nothing about teabagging seems even remotely erotic to me.)
By the way, I find it amusing that the original tea party revolt was all about opposition to big corporations, namely the Dutch East India Company. Today’s teabaggers seem to favor corporate statism (Facism). What gives?
Re: Our health insurance system: The vast majority of Americans favor either a single payer system, or a public option. Why don’t you? You like being a slave to the whims of Corporate America.
Mike: BTW Keith W. Grimes, I used to be a democrat, probably a lot longer than you. It was democrat then and as far as I’m concerned, democrat now.
I notice that many, if not most, Teabaggers seem to be old…mostly on Medicare as far as I can tell. I’m always amused when I see oldsters holding signs stating, “Government, keep your hands off my health care.” Are you on Medicare? Or, true to your anti-government rants, do you reject Medicare in favor of private health insurance?
MataHarley, the term Democrat Party is not something you came up with. But, it is a term so grammatically incorrect that it grates on every educated persons nerves. It doesn’t hurt the Democrats, only the person uttering the term.
I’d guess that the Democratic Party is about 75% progressive, and the remainder are somewhat moderate, including the DLC types. Certainly you didn’t rate Clinton as a “conservative,” did you? Anyway, the majority of the House is liberal, there are about 40 liberals in the US Senate, the president is a liberal, and there are four liberals on the Supreme Court. I guess we aren’t doing too badly.
JFK wasn’t as liberal as I’d like a president to be, but he was no Nixon/Reagan/Bush either…and for that the country can be grateful.
Your claims notwithstanding, there seems to be a Tea Party Party in Nevada. Personally, anything that divides and disrupts the Conservative Movement is fine by me.
Reading many of the signs shown at Tea Party rallies, watching Fox News, etc., how could anyone come to any other conclusion other than the fact that many racists support the Tea Party? Besides, most, if not all, opposition to civil rights comes from the Right. Correct?
Question: Why do so many in the Tea Party movement seem to protest in favor of corporatists earning many tens of millions of dollars a year when those very same corporatists are working overtime to destroy the middle class? I don’t get it and I’d truly like to understand.
Congratulations for s-l-o-w-l-y crossing the intellectual finish line, Keith. Most others picked up on the use of that specifically to needle your PC arse after your disrespectful and rude entry into this forum, casting blanket aspersions of fascism and racism. Didn’t take long reading your stuff to figure out you’d get your pinko panties in a wad over even the simplest water cooler joke. Not much of a quick wit, are you?
You sure do a lot of “guessing”, don’t you? You “guess” the political make up of the every registered Democrat. Heaven knows what you base that on. I suppose you find substantive source material optional as long as the talking point runs a tingle up your leg.
You “guess” that the “majority” want a single payer/public option when the polls clearly show they do NOT want a single payer, and would be okay with a public option as long as it was not the *only* option. Of course, the fly in that ointment is that the legislation is set up to transition to single payer as the only option in under a decade.
The polls also show they answer one way when you use the term single payer (overwhelmingly no), and another way when you use public option. Which means that your party of distractors and word parsers have managed to muddle the truth of the critter by slapping a new name on a turd. Considering that most conservatives and Republicans don’t want any form of health care managed by the 54 some odd new government agencies, that would make those – unable to recognize a renamed turd when they see it – all liberals and progressives. Got yourself a bunch of brain trusts as peers, don’t you?
And BTW, a poll is not “the majority of the nation”. The best you can say about a poll is that it best reflects the 1000 or so opinions of those who deigned to pick up their phone that eve, and answer questions. Those answers are then taken and plastered all over the media in order to herd public opinion. Most don’t take the time, or have the time, to research politics indepth… so they live on political news soundbytes. Those are easy to spot a mile away.
Yes, your bud, Barry Levinson, did register a “Tea Party of Nevada”. With the filing, it becomes official. He is not, however, been any part of a tea party movement according to the movers and shakers in your state. He stole a movement’s name because he could legally do so. I don’t suspect he can steal the election by the same subterfuge.
And I’m still wondering how many six degrees of separation there is between you and some of this supposed “Tea Party of Nevada” group.
INRE corporate America destroying the middle class, I’d say you should have a chat about that with your idol and POTUS. You’ll find his head of state limo parked on Wall Street in front of the Goldman Sachs and AIG buildings. When you’re done chatting him up, head over to your LV SEIU offices and start taking a count on how many businesses are going under because of labor contracts. Then wander into the federal buildings where 37% of all union workers are employed, and tally up how much their pensions and ever increasing salaries are draining the non-union middle class tax payer.
When you’re done, ask him why the War on Toyota is more important than the War on Terror. Toyota happens to employ a lot of people in this nation, and many a pensioner is now losing their shirts because the WH decided to wage a public war against an auto manufacturer within our borders, and shamelessly promote GM as the savior… like a cheap ambulance chaser (ahem, Barry Levinson, your bud)
You sure do a lot of lip service… maybe you should do more reading.
Speaking of fascism… something you demonstrate well with your anti-corporate commentary at every turn… I find that a fascinating diatribe considering your business includes setting up and managing tax shelters for out of state corporations. Doesn’t that put you in a position of facilitating a legal corporate tax evasion that goes contrary to your social justice base belief? Or does your bank account comfort you in the wee hours of the morning?
You have no room to point fingers at any individual here, Keith A. Grimes. Just like in your party, conservatives, libertarians and Republicans are a mixture of ideology. The bulk of America only fits the extremes in your imagination. And your personal insults hurled here only warrant a verbal sniper shot, aimed squarely at the middle of the L in your forehead.
Missy, I’m not wounded. Nor am I whining. I can dish it out…and take it….better than your average teabagger.
I AM eager to beat down Fascism where ever I see it. And, that’s what I believe…the Tea Party movement consists of Fascists and unwitting know-nothings supporting the Fascists. How so many people can be so duped is beyond me.
Oh my gosh! Sarah Palin totally doesn’t get it! She actually said the tea partiers need to chose between the Republicans and Democrats instead of starting a third party. Is Palin actually a blonde? ‘Cause that is so dumb it would make a great dumb blonde joke. I mean, we have got to help her get her mind right. What is she thinking? Why is she thinking? Illogical lemmings fighting to defeat conservative candidates is what we need. Somebody PLEASE shut Palin up! People might think what she said makes sense.
Remember our motto:
Victory Through Defeat!
So now we are nothing but uneducated fascists?
God that Grimy really does live in a fantasy world!
And as far as the Tea Partiers favoring “corporate statism” just WHO is it that is looking the other way while Wall Street firms who got bailed out by the taxpayers are giving more huge bonuses? Clearly, as educated as you present yourself to be you know the answer to that as well as the answer as to which candidate for President raked in the largest share of contributions from Wall Street firms. THERE is your fascism fool!
P.S. For your info, I was never a Democrat. Obviously your education didn’t prepare you to read, let alone comprehend.
What a shame Aye is on his ski trip. He always likes to play with moonbat trolls like Grimy.
Mike, Keith’s remark, tho misaddressed to you, was in response to Missy, as well as his moldy cheese bait to her about Medicare. I guess reading isn’t much of a character trait either.
Hey… I’d be out of Medicare the minute they reimbursed me all the cash they’ve absconded since I was 16, plus interest earned during the pre-benefits loan period. Just as long as they also rescinded the Clintonian rule that you are mandated to enroll in Medicare at 65, or lose your SS retirement benefits.
Uh, pardon me, but I’m not aware of any such rule that results in the loss of Social Security retirement benefits if a person refuses Medicare coverage.
Part A coverage is automatic, but there’s no premium and no one makes you use it. I suppose you could burn the card and mail the ashes back to the Social Security office to make a symbolic point. Premium Part B is optional. You can refuse it if you don’t want it and avoid premium deductions or payments. You can cancel it if you already have it. In either case, there’s a penalty if you do so and change your mind later, however: higher monthly premiums.
Well, Greg… you are “aware” now…
Posted on this back on Aug 3rd, 2009…Seniors & Boomers healthcare “choice”… enroll in Medicare, or lose your Social Security retirement checks
Hall vs Sebelius, made up of several men wanting to opt out of Medicare for preferred private policies, but not willing to give up their retirement benefits taken from them all their working lives.
Read it and weep… absurd when you consider that if only 1% of the wealthy Medicare age American’s opted out, it would save the system $1.5 bil a year immediately… without a tax increase or any burden on others.
Let’s fill you in a bit more, Greg. INRE your comment:
You most certainly may have a private policy Part B… it’s offered and all is still run thru Medicare admin. However all Medicare coverage takes primary position. So if you have a lesser desirable treatment for an ailment that Medicare covers, but you prefer another treatment not covered by Medicare, your private insurance denies the coverage because there is treatment available via Medicare.
That’s the reason so many would prefer to opt out and have a private plan. For others, they don’t know what they are missing because if they only have Medicare, doctors do not tell them about treatments that Medicare doesn’t cover. Ignorance is bliss, as they see it.
As a “paulbot” as you call us, I have been the leader of possibly the most successful Tea Party group in the nation. I have been flown across the United States to speak at Tea Party events. The Tea Party groups are very influenced by the Ron Paul r3VOLution.
If you live in California and want to enjoy a fantasic event, I invite you to attend our Central Valley Tax Time Tea Party on April 10th. It will be held in Fresno at our AAA baseball stadium, get there early, it only holds 12,000, about average attendance for out 15th and July 4th events last year.
We also held what we called Tea Party Boot Camp in October of 2009, over 550 paid to attend, Tom McClintock was our keynote speaker. Don’t be so fast to dismiss the “paulbots” as we are some of the people doing the “heavy lifting” within the Tea Party movement.
Don’t fall for the divide and conquer tactics that have got us here in the first place…..
MataHarley: Wow! Thanks for the thoughtful and lengthy response.
I am not PC. I am not “needled.” I understood why you used the term “Democrat Party” just as soon as you did so. I don’t think I’m rude or disrespectful…at least no more so than you or any other poster here. I do appreciate that I’ve been allowed to post here…I don’t personally know any teabaggers, and can’t see myself in a position to meet any in person…so this forum might be a good way for me to learn what makes you guys tick. Generally speaking, however, when I make a point, the response is something like: “you are on drugs.” That seems to be a pretty standard response when a rightwinger can’t answer a point, or respond to an inquiry.
My estimates (guesses) are based a little on common sense, more on experience, and a great deal on reading.
Here are some polls on what the majority prefers on health insurance reform:
73% BELIEVE OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IS IN CRISIS OR HAS “MAJOR PROBLEMS.” ::
Gallup Poll. Nov. 11-14, 2007. N=1,014 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3 (for all adults).
http://www.pollingreport.com/health3.htm
64% BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD PROVIDE NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE FOR ALL AMERICANS, EVEN IF IT WOULD RAISE TAXES. ::
CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll. May 4-6, 2007. N=1,028 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.
http://www.pollingreport.com/health3.htm
55% FAVOR ONE HEALTH INSURANCE PROGRAM COVERING ALL AMERICANS, ADMINISTERED BY THE GOVERNMENT, AND PAID FOR BY TAXPAYERS ::
CBS News Poll. Sept. 14-16, 2007. N=706 adults nationwide. MoE ± 4 (for all adults).
http://www.pollingreport.com/health3.htm
69% BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD MAKE IT EASIER TO BUY PRESCRIPTION DRUGS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES. ::
Associated Press-AOL News Poll conducted by Ipsos Public Affairs. Dec. 19-21, 2006. N=1,004 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.1.
http://www.pollingreport.com/health3.htm
These are a little old, but I’ll try to get you some more recent polling information latter. You should know that since single-payer and public option are off the table at the moment, it is difficult to get polling information on these subject.
BTW, I don’t understand your claim that the terms single payer and public option are similar (turds, I think you called them). They are not. Single payer means that the gov’t foots the entire bill without competition. Public Option means that the gov’t competes with private insurance. Too completely different concepts. Public Option was meant to be a compromise with the Republicans…did’t work, of course.
Why do you think that Barry Levinson is my “bud?” He is not. I don’t know him or any of the other teabaggers who started their Tea Party Party here in Nevada. I’m generally not in the business of defending rightwingers, and I don’t pal around with them. I do believe that a third party effort by the Tea Party Party will help Senator Reid a little (very little since the Tea Party Party is only likely to secure a few dozen votes in the upcoming Senate race involving Senator Reid).
I agree with you on one thing…most politicians seem to be hell bent on destroying the middle class…but, none quicker than the teabaggers.
The War on Terror doesn’t impress me as much of a war. I think it is mostly an excuse for the military/industrial complex to make money. Very few Americans die at the hands of terrorists. Many more die in Toyota car crashes, I’m sure (another estimate). In fact, we Americans kill each other at a far more efficient rate than do any terrorists. I’m for decreasing military spending at the rate of at least 75% per year (leaving us as the biggest military spender on the planet, by far), and treating all “terrorists” as the criminals they are. Unfortunately, President Obama seems more in tune with the rightwing when it comes to military spending, wars, etc.
Lip Service? Reading? Why the slam against someone you don’t even know?
I’m not against corporations. I am against corporations running the gov’t. Corporate statism is Fascism. I’m against that too.
My business does not include setting up and managing tax shelters for out of state corporations. Where did you get that idea? (I’m glad you noticed that I post under my real name…something teabaggers are, apparently, not willing to do.)
Personal insults seems to be you specialty. I’m not aware that I’ve slung any around. If I have, please point them out and I’ll correct them immediately.
Mike, you are a little over the top…even for me. State something substantial, and I’ll try to respond. Otherwise, your posts seem to be better suited to a Jr. High School playground.
Why is it that people on Medicare oppose federal benefits, but accept them? Why are these people shilling for people (companies) that wouldn’t even give them the time of day?
Well Keith, many on Medicare do like their coverage… before the upcoming Obama slash and benefit burn, that is. Others don’t because they research their ailments and find there are more than a couple ways to skin a cat, but Medicare doesn’t offer that option.
As for why they accept them? Because we’ve been paying for them all our bloody working lives. To simply walk away and accept all that cash paid up front for benefits you’ve never received is unconcionable.Given the option to recoup your cash and walk away with a private coveage, some will.. some won’t. Depends on their health, and how much they know about treatment coverage.
The “shilling” difference is the base belief that the private market is superior to government management of every aspect of our lives. When you don’t like the way a private insurer handles your benefits, you shop for another. With government care, you’re locked into what the bozos in Congress decide you may have.
duh…
@Keith A. Grimes said: “MataHarley: Wow! Thanks for the thoughtful and lengthy response. “
Mata has a much higher tolerance for fools than I do Grimy. You are clearly a elitist moonbat troll who hates the common people.
You are so off base that you don’t warrant a more considered response from me.
You’re not worth it. I invest my time reaching the masses, not the morons.
Go teabag yourself!
Indeed, Medicare is the primary carrier for any covered service, if you’ve got Medicare.
Do the private insurance companies object to that? I rather doubt it, since it allows them to offload much of the increasing risk inherent with an aging policy holder onto the taxpayers. If you took Medicare out of the equation as the primary insurer, private for-profit insurance companies wouldn’t touch aging members of the US population with a ten-foot barge poll. Few Americans 65 and over would have any health insurance at all, because their elevated risk profile would make the cost of private policies astronomical. Assuming anyone would even offer them.
There’s no way free-market competition could lower that risk profile, unless it came up with a magical remedy for old age. Nor can it alter the diminishing odds that an insurance company’s bets on the continuing health of an aging policy holder will continue to pay off. At some point, placing further bets is a guaranteed way to lose lots of money, very quickly.
BTW, I suspect the real motive for wanting to separate the Part A application process from the monthly benefit application process was to allow the case to be made later that one should have the option of not paying the Medicare portion of FICA tax at all. Essentially it’s a round-about attack on the Social Security system itself.
Play with fire, you couldn’t be more wrong. The Ronulans are a fringe group and have little to no sway.
As for the Nevada TP, One leader suffers from MAJOR BDS and another suffers from Trutherism.
@Keith A. Grimes:
What’s with the disrespect for the elderly? Get left out of an inheritance? Now dearie, Mike is a young whipper-snapper. You were too busy charging in here to take on the facists, old codgers and tea partiers that you failed to make an effort to figure this system out and mistook Mike for me. Even without my spectacles I could do better than that. Shoot, I can even figure out the format.
But not to worry I’m “always amused” by “most” libs that show up in here that are “mostly” arrogant and “rant” on in the “most” condescending manner.
I even went ahead and found updated healthcare polling, it took two clicks and I will let you figure that out….teach a boy to fish….”
http://www.pollingreport.com/health.htm
@Keith A. Grimes:
I haven’t seen anything as of yet to give me confidence in this little spiel. You’ve binged on stereotyping people since you’ve arrived, people that want the best for this country, you just don’t happen to agree with them. So all those who read here have to suffer through a pontificating know it all. Not an attractive trait, grasshopper.
Well, it’s dinner time, pardon me while I go throw hubby’s food in the blender.
Now on to @Keith’s big list….:
This almost deserves it’s own response, and generally Aye is the aisle cleanup guy. But he’s off having family/friend adventures. So I’ll summarize without Aye’s usual thoroughness:
If this is your idea of polite and respectful, someone oughta smack yo’ mama….
What is always interesting is allow those like you to continue on, Keith. As the thread gets more indepth, you get less guarded and we come to the base belief you exude in your commentary… finally spoken outright in your own words. The constant demeaning term of “teabaggers” begins the tone, until you finally conclude you believe that the tea party movements is nothing but fascists, dupes, and racists.
Naw… you’re not rude or disrespectful. /sarc You’re so self absorbed you have no clue how you deliver your points of debate. Which is why I came in driving at you hard. Most of those like you hold yourselves to some moral higher ground that is undeserved. All we have to do is wait for your to insert your second foot into your cybermouth, then wait for you to mumble your way out of your self-induced quandary.
Enuf of that…
I truly hate re’fighting stuff that’s here in the archives. But we weren’t blessed with the company of Keith A. Grimes here then.
So from the archives and Larry battles:
Quite simply put, Medicare is a single payer financial option. Even those that use Medicare Advantage, it’s still run the by a government entity who collects and does payouts at prices they determine “fair”…. because you must have Medicare A & B to have an Advantage plan, and Medicare B is still paid to Medicare…. On top of that is yet another premium to your Advantage provider.
Ain’t that inconvenient for your argument that….. “public option means there’s private insurance too” (parapharased)?
The problem with single payer financed systems is they depend upon either large amounts of healthy paying in for the unhealthy. And they require the privately insured providers charge 130% of medical costs to make up for the 70-80% underpayment of medical cost. You have Peter to rob when you underpay Paul.
Even at that, the coffers are running dry. So you want to expand this losing proposition to the nation at large as a solution? Go find a rock to pitch that sale to.
The public option that would be created is designed to drive private insurers out of the marketplace, leaving the government single option as the sole provider of the nation’s health care system. Please… don’t take my word for it… listen to your POTUS… followed by Barney Frank, and Jan Schhakowsky.
Obama’s a patient type. “… even if it takes a decade…”, single payer govt run for the entire nation is the goal. But he wants it by the end of his first term… by any way possible. Yet, amazingly, despite a year of a supermajority in Congress, it can’t get done. Why? Because even the Blue Dogs don’t like it. Only the progressives.
Now that you know that the “public option” that’s created is in fact a “single payer” system, and that the goal is to get the entire nation on this new “public option/single payer” system, you can look a polls in a new light. Does the majority of the nation want a government run universal health care system?
Jan 2010… 52% oppose, 34% favor But of course in your own progressive circles, that goes up to 70%. But then, that’s the progressive ideology. Government knows best.
Now let’s use one of your own links, shall we? From one of your links above for Kaiser Family Foundation Kaiser Health Tracking Poll. Sept. 11-18, 2009.
Get the difference? No single national health care plan for the nation. And O’healthcare is a private insurer killer by their own admission.
I see you skipped right over the Obama WH public assault on Toyota. How convenient. Guess having his DOT destroying stocks, sales and jobs of one non-government/union owned manufacturer while ignoring that Government Motors suffers from the same flaw just went right over your head?
Ah Missy… we ol’ broads think alike. I too had a gander at
Seems Pew has this to say:
Note that while they’re cool with an option, they don’t want government defining the coverage for everyone. Reconcile that puppy in reality…. Nor are they hot on mandates.
Yeah.. here’s a good one from CNN Research (not that I put much credibility in media polls, mind you…) Great question that addresses the delusional believe that O’health care is opposed because it’s just not socialist enough.
The fact that most feel O’healthcare would either do nothing, or change for the worse, is nothing short of remarkable. I guess they should have added in there about the additional incurred national debt and taxes, eh? Would have been a clean sweet for change for the worse.
Remember the rule Mata: If you feed a moonbat, you have to clean out the cage afterwards!
Oh, and did I forget to mention Obama’s takeover of the banks, insurance and car companies? That along with Wall Street meets the definition of a fascist laid down by Grimy!
Naw… I’m waiting for Aye to return. He’ll be in withdrawal, and chompin’ at the bit!
Mike: Grimy, elitist, moonbat, troll, moron, fool…that’s how Americans in Mike’s America talk to other Americans?
Amazing. Thank God, I don’t live in Mike’s America.
Missy says: (Keith): You’ve binged on stereotyping people since you’ve arrived…
Example please.
Missy, thanks for the pollingreport.com reference. I look at that site regularly. I didn’t reference it because both single payer and public option have been out of the polling for so long. But, here is the first poll cited there:
Pew Research Center Poll. Feb. 3-9, 2010. N=1,383 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.5.
“Please tell me if you think the REPUBLICAN Party or the DEMOCRATIC Party could do a better job in each of the following areas. Which party could do a better job of reforming the U.S. health care system?”
Republican
Party Democratic
Party Both Equally
(vol.) Neither
(vol.) Unsure
% % % % %
2/3-9/10
32 45 6 10 7
Unfortunately, or fortunately as the case may be, the Tea Party Party is not mentioned in the poll (or, maybe they are the unsure cateogory), but its pretty clear that the conservative message is not the preferred message when it comes to health insurance.
MataHarley: Can’t say as I blame you for backing off your claim.
@Keith A. Grimes: You’ll find I’ve already been there, done that with your blanket aspersions. There is no reason to nag every individual here for the obvious. You keep talking, you keep exposing yourself.
No backing off of claim. Americans do NOT want universal health care… OVERWHELMINGLY… as your own poll references prove both in Nov and Dec-Jan-Feb.
O’healthcare is a path to single payer quest, per their own words.
Thus the reason it’s opposed.
You have a reading comprehension problem, dude…..
KEITH you said thankGOD i don’t live in MIKE’s AMERICA but you almost do and you seems to like it ,bye
MataHarley considers these comments to be rude and disrespectful (though there is not a reference to drug use, morons, fools, etc. among them):
#102: Most Americans simply love their country and their government far more than do the teabaggers.
WHY IS THIS DISRESPECTFUL? ONE NIGHT OF VIEWING TEABAGGERS ON FOX NEWS WILL DEMONSTRATE THE TRUTH OF THIS COMMENT. NEARLY EVERY SIGN DISPLAYS SOME ANTI-USA GOVERNMENT SLOGAN. HOW CAN ONE LOVE THEIR COUNTRY AND DISPARAGE IT SO AT THE SAME TIME?
#105: Love of country entails far more than waving flags and racist signs.
NOT TRUE?
#118: Hard right¦I’m not sure I get your attack. But, I do find it pretty typical that the extreme right wing finds it non-productive to engage in dialog with those who might disagree. [Mata Musing:… if you can call the above “dialog”…]
THIS WAS IN RESPONSE TO A PARTICULAR POST WHEREBY THE POSTER INDICATED THAT DIALOG WAS OUT OF THE QUESTION.
#125: Reading many of the signs shown at Tea Party rallies, watching Fox News, etc., how could anyone come to any other conclusion other than the fact that many racists support the Tea Party? Besides, most, if not all, opposition to civil rights comes from the Right.
NOT TRUE?
#126: I AM eager to beat down Fascism where ever I see it. And, that’s what I believeâ�¦the Tea Party movement consists of Fascists and unwitting know-nothings supporting the Fascists. How so many people can be so duped is beyond me.
EVERY AMERICAN SHOULD BE A SWORN ENEMY OF FASCISM. THAT THE TEABAGGERS ARE NOT IS TELLING.
You’re running out of cyber feet to shove in your mouth, Keith….. But keep piling on. It doth amuse us so…
Considering your attitude, why in the world would I chastise Mike for giving you back some of your own?
Hypocritical….
@MataHarley: It’s pretty obvious that reality has yet to dawn on that delusional moonbat troll Grimy. If Virginia, New Jersey and Massachusetts didn’t do it then November 2010 will.
Meanwhile, we can all fear the fascism of big government control over banks, insurance and autos. The Tea Party movement has been out front in opposing big government control of the private sector.
And considering Grimy’s continued use of an insulting names above I feel fully justified in posting this:
@Greg: really have to straighten you on on a few details since you obviously chose not to read about Hall vs Sebelius.
Every plaintiff is 65 and older, Greg. Pray tell what the heck do they care about not paying the Medicare portion of FICA at this stage in life? They have more than paid their dues. Grasping at straws. It’s also bizarre you choose to ignore the fiscal illogic of the mandate, considering the burden of costs that could be shifted off of the taxpayer if they were allowed to opt out for private insurance instead.
Greg, if you worked 10 years at any employment paying into Medicare, and you’re over 65, and a citizen or permanent resident of the US, you are eligible for … nay MANDATED TO ENROLL IN … Medicare. There are also disability exemptions where you can enroll earlier than 65. So anyone over 65 that’s done sufficient work in the US has got Medicare. What is the point of your first sentence??
INRE the second. No one is discussing taking Medicare out of the equation. Those of us at that age are so far invested in paying for benefits we don’t have… and that includes the bankrupt social security “trust fund lockbox” that those scum in Congress have treated themselves to at will…. it’s simply not an issue. Not unless you can give me my money back.
Shall I pay you for a car for 50 years, and then refuse to accept the car? Tell ya what… give me my money back, and I’ll go quietly buy another car. Can’t do it? Oh well… give me what you owe me in what pitiful benefits will be left after this admin slashes and burns the benefits.
For those under a certain working age… say 25… I’d most definitely halt the Medicare taxes for them. We can nip their fiscal rape in the bud.