Tea Party Candidate May Ensure A Harry Reid Win; Update – Tea Party Name Hijacked?; Update & Bumped: More Research On The Party; Update: A Front For Paulbots? Harry Reid Minions? Or Both?

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This is just beyond asinine. (h/t doubleplusundead)

Sun columnist Jon Ralston is reporting that the Tea Party has qualified as a third party in Nevada and will have a candidate in the Senate race to battle for the seat held by Majority Leader Harry Reid.

The party has filed a Certificate of Existence but needs to get 1 percent of the electorate to vote for its candidate in November to permanently qualify, according to the report.

Ralston reported that Jon Ashjian will be the Tea Party’s U.S. Senate candidate on the November ballot. Ashjian still must declare his candidacy.

Awesome…..this goes a long way towards ensuring Harry Reid stays the Senator of that State.

Look, I’m all for the tea party being a force behind conservatives and agree with much that they stand for but dammit….making a third party is just a recipe for disaster. A complete and utter disaster.

UPDATE

Many thanks to the Freepers who have investigated this Tea Party of Nevada group:

Dr. Sid James, Chairman
Curtis Atwood, Vice Chairman (Atwood Building & Development (LV), contractor)
Eric Scholer, Second Vice Chairman (Scholer Steele & Associates (LV), insurance)
Barry Levinson, Secretary (Personal injury/bankruptcy attorney and former attorney for John Wayne Bobbitt)
Daniel Hayden, Treasurer
Kiana Hayden, At Large Member
Romy Ashjian, At Large Member
Keith Ozawa, At Large Member (President of American Leak Detection, Las Vegas, Nevada)
Jim Ebel, At Large Member
Larry Lathum, At Large Member

More on this Keith Ozawa:

Leland Keith Ozawa, Jr. (CRD #2119830, Registered Representative, Las Vegas, Nevada) submitted a Letter of Acceptance, Waiver, and Consent in which he was fined $5,000 and suspended from association with any NASD member in any capacity for two months. Without admitting or denying the allegations, Ozawa consented to the described sanctions and to the entry of findings that he participated in private securities transactions without providing prior written notice to, and receiving written approval from, his member firm.

Ozawa’s suspension began October 21, 2002, and will conclude at the close of business December 20, 2002. (NASD Case #C02020046)

A bit more:

Looks like Scholer and the Haydens are related:

http://kalamareunion.blogspot.com/

Kiana Hayden: http://kianaonp90x.blogspot.com/

“Dr.” Sid James (that kind of waving of useless credentials screams third party jerk to me) doesn’t have much of a web footprint.

Bottom line: They seem to all be related or connected via real estate in Las Vegas (except maybe the lawyer). There’s virtually nothing that can be found about them, including activity in the Tea Party itself.

Thanks to Freepers Amishdude and Pan_Yan for their excellent research

Just based on the limited research from the Freepers it’s looking more and more like this “candidate” and his group are hijacking the Tea Party name.

UPDATE

Mata looked into the group herself and came up with a few more interesting facts on the ambulance chaser. Looks like he also enjoys suing the LVPD:

Guy with broken neck due to arrest “abuse” and a chopped video tape.. where they settled

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=7751723

Here’s another in 2002 that he sued the police on behalf of a guy who’s DNA got mixed up with his cellmates (note, he was already serving a sentence when the cellmate accused Levinson’s plaintiff of rape, and they obtained both their DNA samples). Then the alleged raper got nailed for a year’s sentence based on the DNA later….

This chairman, Dr. Sid James, is pretty much invisible on the net. So is pretty much every person in the group. No political papertrail to follow.

This is some group that has used the tea party name for their own benefit.

UPDATE

Now we are starting to get an idea about whose benefit they are working for…..why, the Paulbots. The Neveda News Bureau has done an excellent job of culling together bits and pieces:

Here are some snippets from my research so far:

Barry Levinson was part of the “Bush Lied, People Died” cabal (very strange creds for a Tea Party guy). 

Not really core to the story but one of the principals, Larry Lathum, appears to be a 9/11 Truther.

~~~

And from another (Nevada) source:

“The party’s candidate Jon Scott Ashjian has connections with Brittain Ashjian; both are listed on each others LLC’s docs with the state.  (Go to http://nvsos.gov/sosentitysearch/CorpSearch.aspx and do an office search on Ashjian).  A lot of the officers and resident agents for Ashjian are also “officers” for the Party.  This just smells…

The Ashjian’s have listings for over 10 LLC’s including the following names:

Bada-Bling, LLC
W.I.T. Bro, LLC AKA AA Paving.
24/Construction, LLC
W.S.C.I. LLC
Two Amigos, LLC
Cajun Express, LLC
Squidman, LLC
The 1720, LLC
TNT Energy Products, LLC
RNC Properties, LLC

Almost all of the LLC’s have various registered agents or officers with address of 4485 N. RAINBOW, Las Vegas.

~~~

A search of the Contractor’s Board website rendered these results re: a complaint and pending hearing & action re: Tea Party of Nevada candidate Jon Ashjian:

License Number: 0038420

Current Date: 02/15/2010 04:36 PM(mm/dd/yyyy)

Business Primary Name: JON SCOTT ASHJIAN DBA

License Monetary Limit: $250,000.00

Fictitious Business Name: A & A ASPHALT PAVING COMPANY

Business Address: 4485 N RAINBOW BLVD,  LAS VEGAS, NV 89108

Phone Number: (702)891-9111

Status: Summary Suspension

Status Date: 02/03/2010 (mm/dd/yyyy)

Origin Date: 11/02/1994 (mm/dd/yyyy)

Expiration Date: 11/30/2010 (mm/dd/yyyy)

Business Type: Individual

Classification(s): A-8 – SEALING & STRIPING OF ASPHALTIC SURFACES

A12 – EXCAVATING GRADING TRENCHING & SURFACING

A16 – PAVING STREETS,DRIVEWAYS & PARKING LOTS

Principal Name Relation Description:  ASHJIAN, JON SCOTT Owner Qualified Individual

Bonds

Bond Type: Surety Bond

Bond Number: FS7782036

Bond Agent: HUDDLESON, KATHLEEN A

Surety Company: GREAT AMERICAN INSURANCE COMPANY

Bond Amount: $15,000.00

Effective Date: 09/15/2006 (mm/dd/yyyy)

Cancellation Date: 03/28/2010 (mm/dd/yyyy)

Disciplinary Actions

Date: 12/29/2009 (mm/dd/yyyy)

Discipline Type:

Discipline document:   Pending – Disciplinary action is pending against this licensee in the form of a Disciplinary Hearing.

Number Of Complaints: 1 complaint is associated with this action.

Notice: The pending action alleges the following violations. Upon final adjudication some violations or cases may be found to be without merit.

Violation(s): NRS 624.3013(3) Failure to establish financial responsibility, NRS 624.3016(1) Fraudulent or deceitful act

Action(s): Pending Adjudication.

The information contained on these pages are provided as a courtesy and may not reflect recent changes or updates. Neither the completeness nor accuracy is guaranteed. The Nevada State Contractors Board shall have no liability or responsibility for loss and damages arising from the information provided or retrieved from these pages.

No telling if this is legit or not until the Board makes their final call.  Will keep an eye on it and keep you posted.

~~~

As reported by Ralston over the weekend and as shown in that list of LLCs above, there is also a Jon Ashjian listed as the resident agent of TNT Energy Products, LLC.  The address for that entity is the same as for A&A Asphalt Paving Company.  Which is the same as the address for the office of Barry Levinson.

Go to the website for more including a statement from Barry Levinson.

Either way, the Bush Lied People Died and 911 Twoofer kinda of people scream, absolutely SCREAM Paulbot to me.

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@Wordsmith superficial interventionist comment #114:

“Ronulans”

“Paul Pots”

“Ron Paul Reverists”

and

“Paul Bearers”

I think there were more we were using at FA in 2008….oh, what fun times!

Forgot to include the cutesy term, “Paulistinians”.

Sorry to interrupt the serious stuff in this thread. Just remembered this term and my earlier entry.

Carry on…

Thanks to Ron Paul, people understand the folly of our monetary system… so not sure why you would denigrate them.

NH, RP isn’t responsible for what you say.
People are learning what happens when government interferes in the economy for political/corrupt purposes. That is not the fault of the monetary system.
As for RP, most people barely know who he is.

Mike as to your post that stated,

“Perhaps we ought to come up with a sexual epithet to describe you and your progressive ilk.”

You are too late. It seem some lefties have decided to create their own version of the Tea Party and given themselves the name…….Brownbaggers. Just a hint, it’s NOT a reference to having your lunch in a paper bag. It’s a cousin to the “Teabagging” slur.

Are you serious? Only someone living in a cave doesn’t know who Ron Paul is! LOL He raised the most money in one day than any candidate in history.

As for our monetary system, it is corrupt from the get-go. It is supposed to be that only Congress can direct the minting of our money, NOT some private bankers who hold sway over inflation, the stock market and our presidential picks who then send $500 in kickbacks to them using our tax dollars.

I never said RP was responsible for what I say. I am not going to say who I am, only that I am very familiar with his positions.

Further I don’t understand why anyone calling themself a ‘conservative’ would attack someone who is the epitome of conservatism….

– anti abortion
– anti-illegal immigration
– pro-defense
– anti-tax
– pro-constitution

etc….

RP is NOT the epitome of anything but insanity and you sound like you’ve fallen for his BS. Pro defense? Nope. Heck, he doesn’t even like our military. Constitution? Only HIS interpretation of it. Fiscal Conservative? Not even close.

As for people not knowing who he is, there was poll where 40% or more of the respondents had not heard of the Tea Party. It’s safe to say that the TP gets far more coverage and is far more mainstream than loony Ron.
Ask someone who follows things like we do and they will know him. The average person? Nope.

I didn’t come here to argue about RP, but obviously you’ve been listening to the moronic left wing media and their smears to get your information… which is mostly wrong.

He doesn’t ‘hate’ the military but feels we are severely shortchanged for our own defense here… because as the founders warned, we are too involved in ‘nation building’ elsewhere… a valid concern of W’s… He has full support of the veterans in his district which is why he gets re-elected with 70% of the vote, has for 20 years… ‘Splain that one…

You didn’t specify what it is about the Constitution he has misinterpreted…

Anyone who would like to audit the Fed (and possibly fire them) and the IRS is not a fiscal conservative? Joke? Troll?

You are at the very least, very ill-informed.

Say you hate him if you want, but please stop lying about facts that are easily checked and at least cite some reasons that are factual.

I suppose he’s not a doctor who delivered 4,000 babies? Or an Air Force Vet? Or a ranking member of the finance committee because he is a financial wiz who never even took a loan to send his 5 kids to school, 3 of whom are also DOCTORS?

Once again, frivolous smears against a solid conservative Rep and decent family man who is most likely the most honest man in Congress today only makes you look small.

The only one ill informed is you, paulistinian.
I’ve seen the little game he plays with earmarks. Funny how you fail to mention that. It’s in his voting record. You know, the one you deliberately ignore to maintain your RP is a Conservative fantasy. I’ve watched him badmouth the U.S. and it’s military. I have seen what his position on israel is, and he’s definitely an anti-semite. Pro-defense? Again, you must be delusional.
Just because YOU THINK he is anti-abortion and anti-Fed, you feel that makes him a “true” Conservative? You need to loosen your tinfoil hat.
BTW, I didn’t listen to anyone else BUT RP to come to my conclusions. Unlike you, I’m sane and can face reality, especially so when it comes to loony Ron.

Here’s some more info you will ignore. :

2x’s RP voted FOR allowing MINORS to get Abortions WITHOUT Parental NOTIFICATION, let alone permission!

2x’s RP voted FOR allowing MINORS to CROSS STATE LINES to GET Abortions WITHOUT Parental NOTIFICATION!

2x’s RP voted AGAINST charging a person for KILLING the Unborn while COMMITTING ANOTHER CRIME!

RP has APPROVAL Ratings of:
67% from THE ACLU!

39% from THE NAACP!
ONLY 46% from the US COC!
60% from CURE!
o% from CAF showing OPPOSITION TO energy INDEPENDENCE!
A/100% from VOTE-HEMP & “+30” from NORML showing he’s PRO-DOPE!
67% form THE NEA!

http://www.ontheissues.org/Ron_Paul.htm

I don’t have time to argue with idiots but…

Earmarks: Paul votes to get rid of them every time. And each time it fails to make it. So, he just does what everone else does and takes back money for his district.

You’ve watched him badmouth the U.S. and it’s military? This is amazing since he’s a vet himself. Can you even cite one example? Nope, didn’t think so.

He’s definitely an anti-semite? Wow, if that’s all the proof you need for that I guess everyone who doesn’t feel like we have to shovel money to every foreign country is an ‘anti-anything’ who live in that country? Stupid. I’m against it too and I’m Jewish you moron.

I don’t THINK he is anti-abortion I know it. He has never performed an abortion and has delivered over 4,000 babies in his career. But you forgot about that.

You are young enough to be my granchild.. please grow up OK?

2x’s RP voted FOR allowing MINORS to get Abortions WITHOUT Parental NOTIFICATION, let alone permission!
2x’s RP voted FOR allowing MINORS to CROSS STATE LINES to GET Abortions WITHOUT Parental NOTIFICATION!
2x’s RP voted AGAINST charging a person for KILLING the Unborn while COMMITTING ANOTHER CRIME!

As for these three above, why no links? I can’t find where he did that…

RP has APPROVAL Ratings of:
67% from THE ACLU! <– this is not a measure of anything. The ACLU is all over the map.

39% from THE NAACP! <– but yet you say he's an anti-semite, LOL so you contradict yourself

ONLY 46% from the US COC! <– who the hell is that?

60% from CURE! <– ditto?

o% from CAF showing OPPOSITION TO energy INDEPENDENCE! <— he's for drill here drill now.

A/100% from VOTE-HEMP & “+30″ from NORML showing he’s PRO-DOPE! <– hemp is not dope, but it might be to dopes like you. Hemp is ROPE you moron!!!!!!!!! It has absolutely NO qualities about it that can get you high.

67% form THE NEA! <— I doubt this very much. He is for school choice.

Once again no proof, and WAY off on simple things like Hemp being a drug! LOL

Goodbye.

By the way, the above person is a koolaid drinking Obamabot.. just to let you know.

@NH:

2x’s RP voted FOR allowing MINORS to get Abortions WITHOUT Parental NOTIFICATION, let alone permission!
2x’s RP voted FOR allowing MINORS to CROSS STATE LINES to GET Abortions WITHOUT Parental NOTIFICATION!
2x’s RP voted AGAINST charging a person for KILLING the Unborn while COMMITTING ANOTHER CRIME!

As for these three above, why no links? I can’t find where he did that…

Ummm…a quick Google search for “Ron Paul””Parental Notification” produced this:

Voted NO on restricting interstate transport of minors to get abortions.
To prevent the transportation of minors in circumvention of certain laws relating to abortion, and for other purposes, including:

* Allowing for exemptions to the law if the life of the minor is in danger or if a court in the minor’s home state waive the parental notification required by that state
* Allocating fines and/or up to one year imprisonment of those convicted of transporting a minor over state lines to have an abortion
* Penalizing doctors who knowingly perform an abortion procedure without obtaining reasonable proof that the notification provisions of the minor’s home state have been satisfied
* Requiring abortion providers in states that do not have parental consent laws and who would be performing the procedure on a minor that resides in another state, to give at least a 24 hour notice to the parent or legal guardian
* Specifying that neither the minor nor her guardians may be prosecuted or sued for a violation of this act

Reference: Child Interstate Abortion Notification Act; Bill HR 748 ; vote number 2005-144 on Apr 27, 2005

Voted NO on making it a crime to harm a fetus during another crime.
Vote to pass a bill that would make it a criminal offense to harm or kill a fetus during the commission of a violent crime. The measure would set criminal penalties, the same as those that would apply if harm or death happened to the pregnant woman, for those who harm a fetus. It is not required that the individual have prior knowledge of the pregnancy or intent to harm the fetus. This bill prohibits the death penalty from being imposed for such an offense. The bill states that its provisions should not be interpreted to apply a woman’s actions with respect to her pregnancy.
Reference: Unborn Victims of Violence Act; Bill HR 1997 ; vote number 2004-31 on Feb 26, 2004

::snip::

Voted NO on federal crime to harm fetus while committing other crimes.
Vote to pass a bill that would make it a federal crime to harm a fetus while committing any of 68 federal offenses or a crime under military law. Abortion doctors and women whose own actions harmed their fetuses would be exempt.
Reference: Bill sponsored by Graham, R-SC; Bill HR 503 ; vote number 2001-89 on Apr 26, 2001

::snip::

Voted NO on barring transporting minors to get an abortion.
The Child Custody Protection Act makes it a federal crime to transport a minor across state lines for the purpose of obtaining an abortion.
Reference: Bill sponsored by Ros-Lehtinen, R-FL; Bill HR 1218 ; vote number 1999-261 on Jun 30, 1999

I’m an obamabot? You are an RP moron. Everyone here knows my credentials. Yours? Not so much….until now. You claim he’s a fiscal Conservative, but excuse his abuse of earmarks with the claim everyone does it! You’re as big a hypocrite as him. Not to mention you used his very excuse (almost to the word) for lying about his fiscal Conservatism.

Love your pathetic attempts to spin his ratings. The ACLU is “all over the map”? Ummmm riiiiiiiight. They are just so right wing sometimes, eh?
He’s pro pot, but you want to pretend he isn’t. I know you know who NORML is.

I’ll give you proof, knowing full well you’ll ignore it because you are too mentally ill to accept the truth about your RP messiah.

“…members of Congress have been “intimidated by the influence of AIPAC”

“the assumption is that AIPAC is in control of things, and they control the votes, and they get everybody to vote against anything that would diminish the [Iraq] war”.

Google the above quotes, they can be found everywhere…including white supremacist websites. Coincidence huh? Nope. There’s more.

During Israel’s 2009 war on the Gaza Strip, Paul addressed Congress to voice his staunch opposition to the House’s proposed resolution supporting Israel’s actions. He stated: “Madame Speaker, I strongly oppose H. Res. 34, which was rushed to the floor with almost no prior notice and without consideration by the House Foreign Affairs Committee. The resolution clearly takes one side in a conflict that has nothing to do with the United States or US interests. I am concerned that the weapons currently being used by Israel against the Palestinians in Gaza are made in America and paid for by American taxpayers.” He then went on to question the very purpose of America’s support for Israel, asking: “Is it really in the interest of the United States to guarantee the survival of any foreign country?”

When later asked about his comments by Russia Today, Ron Paul added: “[This support has] been going on for more than 50 years, because there has been a pretty strong case made for the Jewish people being treated quite badly, and emotionally there was an argument for having a place they can call their homeland, and people bought into this. But even then there was no justification for us to be using our money for doing that. There’s one thing being friends, getting along with people and trading with people versus subsidizing them.”[28]

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:Pyhbq7aF4jYJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Paul+ron+paul+voted+against+afghanistan+war&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

“…The Congressman stated to the effect that the United States of America has no money and that the continued occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan were benefiting the Military Industrial Complex. He said troops marched right in there and they can march right out. In addition Congressman Paul said that we are only strengthening the leaders we are going after in Iraq and Afghanistan because we are causing suffering amongst the very people we are trying to influence. “

So tell me NH, who is WE according to RP? Our soldiers, that’s who.

http://www.examiner.com/sitemaps/x-18383-Maricopa-County-Progressive-Examiner~y2009m11d1-Cong-Ron-Paul-On-Larry-King-Criticizes-Obama-On-the-Continued-Occupations-of-Iraq-and-Afghanistan

Self defense? We were attacked by terrorists/OBL and the Taliban refused to turn him over. I’d say attacking Afghanistan to get the terrorists was self defense. RP? Nope.
Let’s not forget how he wants to run and hide under the bed on foreign policy. Withdrawing from the world will not protect us.

Oh almost forgot this NH. Neocon, is the code word for JOOOOOOOOOS among RP fans. Go to the RP websites and the white supremacist sites that support him, and you’ll see it too.

http://rawstory.com/2010/02/paul-cautions-neocon-influence-infiltrating-tea-parties/

“Neocon issues in public policy are not exactly dead these days…”

http://rightinaleftworld.blogspot.com/2009/12/whiny-ron-paul-blames-america-again.html

Whiny Ron Paul Blames America Again

Paul, know for blaming America for the terrorist attacks against our country during those debates, continues blaming America for the latest but thwarted attack on Christmas Day.

These people all have businesses in Las Vegas it appears. I say lets get the word out on the business names and locations and boycott them. Maybe even protest their hijacking of the Tea Party name. Clearly these people are not interested in curbing government spending as ‘stimulus money would benefit paving companies etc…’ and they don’t care that the country will suffer for it as long as it lines their pockets.

After I retire from the White House in 2049 I will dedicate a wing of the Barack Obama Bin Hussein Library to the “Tea Party of Nevada”. They are true American Conservatives in the vein of Ronald Reagan and Leonard Peltier. Their efforts to re-elect a patriot like Harry “The War is Lost” Reid must be rewarded. I say more stimulus funds for my loyal conservative allies.

And hands off of the peoples’ Ron Paul. He only wants the truth about what happened to Van Jones and the editors of “RonPaulian Encounters Magazine”.

@Hard Right:

Notice how the Paulian vamoosed once the facts started rolling out?

Amusing really.

Aye Chihuahua,

Yes, that’s what happens when people like Hard Right bully others into submission with foul language and petty insults. But then again that is the modus operandi of the Neoconservative movement, and why the Republican Party is shrinking every day.

Limited government, fiscal responsibility, state and locally-controlled government etc…these are traditional conservative principles…principles which Ron Paul espouses. Traditional Republican Party principles.

American empire, offensive war, huge debt…these are principles of the Neoconservative movement, less government (except when my friend’s business needs a handout). These are radical political positions pushed by Bush/Cheney that are not traditional Republican Party principles.

@Paul Fan:

Limited government, fiscal responsibility, state and locally-controlled government etc…these are traditional conservative principles…principles which Ron Paul espouses. Traditional Republican Party principles.

Did any of the ’08 GOP candidates not espouse much the same?

Rhetoric is easy. Actually governing is another beast, altogether. Obama’s found that out. Previous politicians have found this out. What makes Ron Paul any different that he’d be able to achieve his ideological agenda, short of filibuster-proof majorities in Congress?

American empire, offensive war,

This is where Ron Paul and his bearers really lose me.

@Paul Fan said: “the Republican Party is shrinking every day. ”

What a load of crap.

Have you seen the latest generic ballot numbers?

You’re not exactly making a case for the RP movement with your distortions.

I was predisposed to forgive you Grim Reapers but you are making it extremely difficult.

How old are you anyway?

@Paul Fan:

Yes, that’s what happens when people like Hard Right bully others into submission with foul language and petty insults.

Actually, that’s what happens when a Paulian wanders in here spouting falsehoods and is promptly and mercilessly smacked down.

Hard Right stated what the truth was and NH foolishly chose to challenge him.

NH was subsequently mercilessly squashed under a ton of factual info much to our amusement.

So, if you have no refutation of what got NH into trouble….then you’re adding nothing more than bit and byte splatter to our windshield.

I was predisposed to forgive you Grim Reapers but you are making it extremely difficult.

How old are you anyway?

Mike’s America,

I will not discuss anything with you if you cannot refrain from ad hominem attacks. I encourage you to drop the insults.

I am not opposed to waging war. I would just prefer that we do it in a constitutional manner. For example, prior to one American soldier setting foot in a foreign country we have the U.S. Congress actually declare the war…as outlined in the constitution. Furthermore, we confine our attacks to groups and countries that actually wage war on us such as the Taliban in Afghanistan and al-Qaeda.

And does my age really matter? Does any information about me really matter? If I was young you’d use that in another ad hominem attack, calling me inexperienced or what have you. If I was old you’d call me senile.

What a load of crap.

Have you seen the latest generic ballot numbers?

You’re not exactly making a case for the RP movement with your distortions.

I forgive you. I know you are constantly bombarded with propaganda. It’s hard to see through all the misinformation.

Have you seen the latest Party identification numbers? I believe that the generic ballot numbers reflect anti-incumbent sentiment moreso than Party identification.

http://people-press.org/report/561/anti-incumbent-sentiment

Actually, that’s what happens when a Paulian wanders in here spouting falsehoods and ispromptly and mercilessly smacked down.

Hard Right stated what the truth was and NH foolishly chose to challenge him.

NH was subsequently mercilessly squashed under a ton of factual info much to our amusement.

So, if you have no refutation of what got NH into trouble….then you’re adding nothing more than bit and byte splatter to our windshield.

Seriously, I feel like I’m watching a WWF wrestling match when I read some of the things you and Hard Right write. It’s just silly and unproductive. It’s psychological masturbation. I refuse to participate.

The problem that you guys have is that you cannot look beyond the mold that people like Hannity and Limbaugh create for you. You think there is only one type of “Conservative”. The major thing with Ron Paul that I love is that he keeps trying to return to a more traditional approach of operating Government. Most of his votes stem directly from the view that we should be returning to locally-controlled and state-run government as opposed to relying on Federally-intrusive laws and regulations. So a state like Idaho or Florida will decide for itself whether it wants to legalize or criminalize abortion. This is a traditional conservative view.

This is where Ron Paul and his bearers really lose me.

This is the modern Republican Party:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

This is American Empire. This is offensive war. This is the template upon which the Bush/Cheney regime launched their administration.

You’ve been hoodwinked.

@Paul Fan: Yes, your age does matter.

And if you are going to keep up with the snarky, insulting replies then I’ll have compunction about returning the favor.

You seem to be especially prickly when it comes to insults but you apparently feel rather free to fling them about.

The fact that you do so to people who may quite possibly be your betters in a great many ways is rather stupid on your part.

OK, thus far you haven’t given me a full and complete answer on ANYTHING I have asked.

So much for being honest about yourself or the RP movement.

If you are unable to do more than cut and paste talking points without demonstrating any serious attempt at an honest discussion then I’ll stop treating you like an adult.

So again, how old are you and does RP really want to pull U.S. forces out of overseas bases?

@Paul Fan:

Seriously, I feel like I’m watching a WWF wrestling match when I read some of the things you and Hard Right write. It’s just silly and unproductive. It’s psychological masturbation. I refuse to participate.

What you consider silly and unproductive others consider to be both valuable and educational. The confrontation of falsity, mistruth, myth, and blatant lies can often be an unpleasant task. Sometimes there is a cyber bloodbath.

It just depends on how thick the skull in question is.

Based on your “contributions” here so far, your refusal to participate with the grownups is both wise and well considered.

When you have nothing at all to offer then it’s best to stay on the sidelines.

Until these last two posts, nothing I wrote on this thread was addressed toward you, yet you chose to kick dust on my shoes anyway.

So, in essence, you did choose to participate.

Thanks for proving yourself the proud owner of a word/deed mismatch.

The problem that you guys have is that you cannot look beyond the mold that people like Hannity and Limbaugh create for you.

I beg your pardon.

Can you tell me the last time I watched/listened to either Hannity or Limbaugh if ever?

Can you?

No, you can’t, because that’s just a presumptuous assumption on your part.

You’re spouting all this Paulian nonsense which is fine, but don’t fool yourself into thinking that the rest of us have the low mental acuity necessary to blindly buy into what you’re selling.

I’m an independent thinker. I don’t need or allow anyone to tell me the direction I should go.

I engage in the relentless, unapologetic, aggressive pursuit of the truth.

I don’t make apologies for what I believe, nor what I write.

If you can find grounds to challenge me based on the facts I’ve posted here, please do. Outside of that, you’re wasting your time.

@Aye Chihuahua: Well said!

As I said earlier, I was prepared to forgive the RPr’s for some of their exuberance and excessive zeal in 2008. Paul Fan is making me rethink that.

He fails to realize how his behavior damages the message.

Either that or he’s just here to start a food fight.

In either case he lost.

@Paul Fan:

I am not opposed to waging war. I would just prefer that we do it in a constitutional manner. For example, prior to one American soldier setting foot in a foreign country we have the U.S. Congress actually declare the war…as outlined in the constitution.

When has this ever been the case? It’s been an American tradition since the beginning to engage in small wars, undeclared by Congress.

Between 1800 and 1934, U.S. Marines staged 180 landings abroad with the army and navy adding a few other small-scale engagements of their own.

The belief that we were ever an isolationist/non-interventionist nation is a myth. The belief that it is our military interventionism abroad that is a source of hatred and “blowback” is misguided. We would be far less safe, and the world far more dangerous, if America did not exercise its influence and flex its military muscle, where appropriate. What Paulistinians advocate is to do nothing until the moment before a trigger is pulled. It’s like the difference between preventive medicine and treatment.

Extrapolated from one of my brilliant posts:

If Ron Paul thinks American interventionism is not doing more good than harm on behalf of the world (and in particular, on behalf of America) then I suggest he drop Imperial Hubris for a moment, and read the following books:

Imperial Grunts and Hog Pilots and Blue Water Grunts, by Robert Kaplan.

Robert Kaplan has been embedding himself with small deployments, throughout the world. And he will stick with a unit for weeks- not just a day- to get to know the soldiers and to earn their trust. What our soldiers are doing in foreign lands benefits America and benefits humanity, around the world.

In an interview with Hugh Hewitt, Robert Kaplan says,

people have this image of the U.S. military going all over the world as a busybody, propping up dictatorships. It’s so false. In fact, the only regimes we prop up through training missions are of certified democracies, certified by Congress, which we have not imposed on them, that they’ve evolved organically on their own as democracies.

The Savage Wars of Peace, by Max Boot:

Far from being isolationist before World War II and the formation of NATO, America from the very beginning of the Republic intervened in a nearly continual series of civil wars, coups, and hostage rescues. Starting with attacks on the Barbary Coast pirates between 1801 and 1805, the nation has always interfered in other nations’ business far from home.

Two generations of college students have been taught that all such “adventurism” is nothing but imperialism and running-dog capitalism–and Boot does not deny that states naturally send in their forces out of national interest rather than mere idealism. But he shows that the majority of the time the Marines intervened to stop the slaughter of civilians, to retaliate against the killing of Americans and destruction of their property, and to prevent chaos from spreading beyond a country’s borders. While such incursions often served the local property-owning elites and corrupt grandees, such interventionists as Thomas Jefferson, Chester A. Arthur, and Teddy Roosevelt assumed that order and stable governments were usually preferable to mass uprisings, constant revolution, and mob rule.

Dangerous Nation, by Robert Kagan:

Americans, in fact, have always defined their interests broadly to include the defense and promotion of the “universal” principles of liberalism and democracy enunciated in the Declaration of Independence. “The cause of America is the cause of all mankind,” Benjamin Franklin declared at the time of the American revolution, and as William Appleman Williams once commented, Americans believe their nation “has meaning . . . only as it realizes natural right and reason throughout the universe”.

This is the real “traditional approach”: the conviction that American power and influence can and should serve the interests of humanity. It is what makes the US, in Bill Clinton’s words, the “indispensable nation”, or as Dean Acheson colourfully put it six decades ago, “the locomotive at the head of mankind”. Americans do pursue their selfish interests and ambitions, sometimes brutally, as other nations have throughout history. Nor are they innocent of hypocrisy, masking selfishness behind claims of virtue. But Americans have always had this unique spur to global involvement, an ideological righteousness that inclines them to meddle in the affairs of others, to seek change, to insist on imposing their avowed “universal principles” usually through peaceful pressures but sometimes through war.

This enduring tradition has led Americans into some disasters where they have done more harm than good, and into triumphs where they have done more good than harm. These days, this conviction is strangely called “neo-conservatism”, but there is nothing “neo” and certainly nothing conservative about it. US foreign policy has almost always been a liberal foreign policy. As Mr Will put it, the “messianic impulse” has been “a constant of America’s national character, and a component of American patriotism” from the beginning.

The other constant, however, has been a self-image at odds with this reality. This distorted self-image has its own noble origins, reflecting a perhaps laudable liberal discomfort with power and a sense of guilt at being perceived as a bully, even in a good cause. When things go badly, as in Iraq, the cry goes up in the land for a change. There is a yearning, even among the self-proclaimed realists, for a return to an imagined past innocence, to the mythical “traditional approach”, to a virtuous time that never existed, not even at the glorious birth of the republic.

This is escapism, not realism. True realism would recognise America for what it is, an ambitious, ideological, revolutionary nation with a belief in its own world-transforming powers and a historical record of enough success to sustain that belief.

Coming off of an interview with Robert Kagan, Michael Medved writes,

Ignoring the long record of American involvement in such conflicts in every corner of the globe, those who question our current world-wide role express reverence for a simple-minded (and non existent) tradition of isolationism. They cite George Washington’s words in his celebrated Farewell Address of 1793: “The Great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign Nations, is in extending our commercial relations to have with them as little political connection as possible….’Tis our true policy to steer clear of permanent Alliances, with any portion of the foreign world.” Jefferson also warned against “entangling alliances,” at the same time he negotiated a vast expansion of U.S. territory with France, and pursued the daring and difficult Barbary Wars.

Even Pat Buchanan, the three time Presidential candidate most often identified as a contemporary advocate of “isolationism,” rejects the idea that the nation ever cowered behind its Atlantic and Pacific “water walls.” In his provocative and beautifully written book “A Republic, Not an Empire,” (1999), Buchanan argues: “The idea that America was ever an isolationist nation is a myth, a useful myth to be sure, but nonetheless a malevolent myth that approaches the status of a big lie…. What is derided today as isolationism was the foreign policy under which the Republic grew from thirteen states on the Atlantic into a continent-wide nation that dominated the hemisphere and whose power reached to Peking….To call the foreign policy that produced this result “isolationist” is absurd. Americans were willing to go to war with the greatest powers in Europe, but only for American interests. They had no wish to take sides in European wars in which America had no stake.”

To hammer home how wrong Ron Paul is on foreign policy and a romanticized non-existent isolationist/non-interventionist past, Mike Boyer at Foreign Policy Passport Blog writes,

1. Foreign Policy and the Constitution. Paul is what you might call a Constitutional originalist. He divines his governing philosophy from the Constitution and America’s Founders. But his understanding of their vision is profoundly flawed. Paul appears to believe the founders vested absolute authority for foreign-policy making in Congress, not the executive. “Policy is policy,” Paul wrote in 2006, “and it must be made by the legislature and not the executive.” But there’s almost no evidence the founders saw it in such simplistic, absolute terms. Law professor Michael Ramsey, a former clerk for Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, recently noted (pdf) this in very eloquent terms in the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy. Reasonable people can agree that Congress has failed its oversight responsibilities with regard to Iraq and the Bush Doctrine. But Paul’s thinking here is simply not supported by the weight of historical evidence.

2. “Noninterventionism.” This is the word Paul uses to describe his foreign policy, and he insists the term also encapsulates the vision of the Founders. While Paul claims “noninterventionism” is not isolationism, it sure sounds like it is. For instance, he even seeks to dismantle the Bretton Woods system of international cooperation born from the ashes of the Second World War (more on that below). Isolationism by any name, friends, is still isolationism. Sure, such sentiments were rampant in 18th and 19th century America and before WWII. The same sentiments are resurfacing today as a backlash against Iraq. Intelligent people can disagree about the Bush Doctrine’s place in history. But let’s not make up facts. The post-9/11 period has been filled with literature by such historians as John Lewis Gaddis and Walter Russell Mead debunking the notion that the founders were only concerned with domestic security and never saw an ideological component to America’s place in the world.

Hat tip: American Power.

Here is McCain attacking Paul on the isolationist point (yeah, yeah, yeah…he’s a “noninterventionist”, because he wants to still “do trade” with other nations– do read the link, and then tell me if you really see a distinction between the terms):

McCain: I just want to also say that Congressman Paul, I’ve heard him now in many debates talk about bringing our troops home, and about the war in Iraq and how it’s failed.

(Applause)

And I want to tell you that that kind of isolationism, sir, is what caused World War II. We allowed…

(Applause)

We allowed …

(Audience booing)

Cooper: Allow him his answer. Allow him his answer, please.

McCain: We allowed — we allowed Hitler to come to power with that kind of attitude of isolationism and appeasement.

Furthermore, we confine our attacks to groups and countries that actually wage war on us such as the Taliban in Afghanistan and al-Qaeda.

The Taliban didn’t attack us. The war we are in isn’t just al-Qaeda. It’s a whole Islamic terror network.

The major thing with Ron Paul that I love is that he keeps trying to return to a more traditional approach of operating Government.

It’s seductive, because it is a romanticized belief in a past that never existed. It’s a great gimmick, with obvious appeal. Basically claiming to be channeling the will of the Founding Fathers.

Again, the biggest issue I have with wRong Paul is on foreign policy. His nutty notions are as naive as that of peaceniks.

This is where Ron Paul and his bearers really lose me.

This is the modern Republican Party:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

This is American Empire. This is offensive war. This is the template upon which the Bush/Cheney regime launched their administration.

Um….no. This is conspiratorial blather, akin to the scares about the North American Union (why do you think so many Ronulans are 9/11 Truthers?). Why am I not surprised you just brought up the Project for a New American Century?
You’ve been hoodwinked.

@Wordsmith: We should have saved an extra copy from our book raffle for Paul Fan:

Review: “Crisis and Command” John Yoo’s New Book Traces the Development of Presidential Power

What he fails to realize is that a number of us have been studying these issues in depth for years.

That arrogant tone he uses smacks of someone who is a rather recent product of American academia.

Oh, Paul Fan would LOVE that book! He should purchase it. Yoo could use the love and support. And he could use the edumcashion.

Mike, to be fair to the kid, I think he got haruumphity and umbragy when you “condescendingly” asked him his age. Sooo….you started it first! 😉

@Mike’s America:

That arrogant tone he uses smacks of someone who is a rather recent product of American academia.

OMG! Another good book, by Thomas Sowell: Intellectuals and Society!

Sowell has hoodwinked you. Karl Marx was not even a Socialist. This is a lie of the Hard Right, who bombards us with propaganda from racists like Limbaugh and Hannity.

God d*mn NeoCons!!! The chickens are coming home to roost…

This one came to roost in the Cuckoo’s nest!

OBH you did not get it?MARXIST and SOCIALIST both are dangerous,bad mix too,bye

@Obama Bin Hussein:

Ummmm….don’t look now, but I think your sarcasm tag is missing.

🙂

AYE CHIHUAHUA was it about a flower on his back coat tail for me ? bye

AYE CHIHUAHA i repeat forgot to send previous comment,,is that tag about a flower on his back coat tail?,bye

AC,

I dont need no stinkin’ sarcasm badges!!!

Karl Marx was just a regular guy from the neighborhood…

Obama Bin Hussein, how about the Groucho Marx Award!

Great! Another Groucho Marxist troll… when are you going to accept real Socialism as your Lord and Savior?

Ummm… oops I mean that guy, umm… whats his name? Jimmy Chris? ahhh… Jesus Martinez. You see I really didnt pay attention to what my preacher said in church!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go back to Scholer. His son Robert Noa Scholeris a drug dealer, addict, convicted felon, on the run from the law in South Carolina, Utah, Nevada, Idaho, Cleveland, Florida and Georgia – please, these people have NO credibility, especially Eric Scholer….total and utter crook!

CURT
IMAGINE from FEBRUARY 2010, TO NOW MARCH 2012, THE GOVERNMENT HAS NOT EVOLVE TO BETTER, INSTEAD THEY SINK AMERICA TO THE WORSE CONDITIONS EVER,
BUT NOW THAT THEY WANT TO GET RE ELECTED, THEY WIGGLE THEIR TAIL AND SING
LIKE THE SNAKE NOW MORE POISONOUS AS TIME KEEP THEM ON THEIR SEAT.
BYE

CURT
can you believe this; MARCH 31 ON 2012 from THE CAVUTO
PANEL, the GOVERNMENT ARE HIRING 4000 IRS PEOPLE
TO ENFORCE HEALTH CARE LAW. WHILE THE FEDERAL COURT ARE DEBATING TO REPEAL THIS LAW,
IS IN IT TO GET MORE SURE VOTES FOR NOVEMBER? OR DO THEY FEEL SO SURE THE HEALTHCARE
WILL BE STILL THERE BEFORE THE ELECTION,

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