I am considered by some to be a Crazy-Ass Cracker, but if we drop the pretenses of racism, I survived my own Trayvon moment a few days ago.
I was trying to find a horse ranch along a narrow two lane, winding road with no shoulder in an extremely wealthy rural area of Ventura County. The GPS on my Ipad mini is nearly impossible to read in direct sunlight and this was a day of record setting heat and intense sunlight. I noticed I had passed my objective and pulled over onto the gated driveway of a rich man’s estate to recalibrate my GPS. The sunlight was preventing me from getting a good reading, my AC was set at Mach 1, and my radio was belting out Merle Haggard with enough volume for a legally deaf man like myself to hear classic music.
The owner, of the ranch and driveway I was blocking, pulled up and honked his horn for me to move, but after losing 75% of my hearing, I had no idea he was there, as I continued to try and figure out my location in the glaring sunlight.
For some reason I looked to the right as a highly agitated man was getting out of his truck and swinging his arms in animated gestures.
He was pissed.
He walked behind my MB to get my license number, I opened my door to apologize and he met me at the door.
Now, after years of martial arts and handling athletic un-sedated horses, I have confidence, and I think this was a factor.
I said to him, as he was blasted with the maximum volume of an old Country and Western song, “I am sorry, I am deaf and didn’t know you were there. I am looking for ‘this address’ and I think I have passed it.”
His demeanor changed immediately. Speaking slowly and concisely like I might be simple minded as well, he offered to guide me to the correct address.
No one was shot or beat up, if you were looking for action and blood, you just wasted your time.
However, I believe there is a moral to this story.
If Trayvon had reached out and spoken with George, this whole incident would have been nothing more noteworthy than a fart in a typhoon, but because he was Black, he is not supposed to assume he can talk to people from other races and his violence is to be expected. Seriously folks, the prosecution is depending on this premise like it is an unwritten part of our judicial code.
Sadly, this attitude is perpetuated by the race pimps of our society, the Al’s and Jessie’s who make a good living segregating minorities from mainstream America. If a gulf exists, they do everything within their power to make it larger.
Critical Race Theory and the hatred it engenders has become an industry. An industry where White Supremacists are part of a system of suppression and hatred they don’t even know exists. Yet the race baiters who hold Critical Race Theory to their bosom like a religion, point their fingers at people who are often scratching their heads and wondering how they were left out of all the turmoil.
Many of us sit perplexed as we learn of Skittles and Watermelon Tea being used as components to get high from codeine.
We are also confused when threats of riots are used to influence trials or perhaps trials are undertaken without proper evidence to neutralize threats of violence and riot or maybe to pave the way for a handsome payout from a civil trial.
We are told we just don’t understand witnesses who would normally be facing contempt and perjury; somehow, such behavior is excused when race is an issue.
Does the mob have that much influence over our courts, can they force a prosecutor to go to trial with evidence that is making him look incompetent or did he want a show trial in the Nifong tradition as a springboard to higher political office.
Is this a trial of race relations? Let’s have it out in the open if it is; since, it is making a mockery of our judicial system. A race trial would be far more interesting than bringing witnesses for the prosecution that the defense would be hard put to improve upon with a script.
Trying a case without proper evidence on a national stage to appease a family and the race pimps of America will be a humiliating experience for the prosecutors. We can only hope the race pimps and prosecutors who hope to capitalize on dubious claims of racism will have second thoughts, in the future, before rushing into cases that make them look foolish and incompetent.
Defending against charges of racism is difficult, since racism is often in the eye of the racially offended, and it is much easier to pay the aggrieved than to fight feelings that are nearly impossible to quantify.
Our Commander in Chief set this travesty in motion by injecting his personal feelings into the tragedy and the trial was predestined to proceed, whether the prosecution had a case or not.
Now, America and the world is being entertained by a theatrical performance that would be ignored by a paying public if it wasn’t real.
Aristotle defined tragedies by saying they must produce a catharsis among the audience members. Catharsis as a metaphor, used by Aristotle, has been accepted to mean a purging of excessive emotions, and why else would a prosecutor make a theatrical production out of a murder trial.
Tragedy, Aristotle:
“A tragedy, then, is the imitation of an action that is serious and also, as having magnitude, complete in itself; in language with pleasurable accessories, each kind brought in separately in the parts of the work; in a dramatic, not in a narrative form; with incidents arousing pity and fear, wherewith to accomplish its catharsis of such emotions.”
The killing of Trayvon was a tragedy, the ethos of George will be played out in the future, in the meantime we can all analyze the mythos or plot and apply it to our own lives.
A professional horseman for over 50 years, Skook continues to work with horses. Skook has finished an historical novel, Fifty Thousand Years, that traces a mitochondrial line of DNA from 50,000 years ago to the present. The story follows a line of courageous women, from the Ice Ages to the present, as they meet the challenges of survival with grit and creativity. These are not women who whimper of being victims, they meet the challenges of survival as women who use their abilities without excuses or remorse, these women are winners, they are our ancestors.
Fifty Thousand Years is available in paperback and e-book, it is getting great reviews. You can purchase a copy here; Visit me on Facebook.
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Dylantheauthor
Good read.
Yes, even deaf people can be an assimilated part of America….because they choose to be.
And blacks can, too, when they decide to be.
But how quickly did Obama jump up and say, “The Police Acted Stupidly.”
Then compare and contrast Obama’s arrogant and uncaring attitude with that very police officer in regard to the care and comfort of the man Obama supposedly cared about:
http://thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/obama-beer-summit.jpg
How quickly did Obama weigh in with, ”“If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon.”
But has Obama assisted to keep the fires of ”kill me a cracker,” that are all over the web?
Not a peep.
He stoked the fires to get re-elected and could care less if a few crackers end up dead and a few more businesses end up looted out of business.
If Zimmerman is found guilty, it means that for all practical purposes that the law says that members of officially designated oppressor groups have targets on their backs and should meekly take their beat downs from offended members of officially designated oppressed groups; as a consequence the flash mob attacks and knock out games will expand and intensify. If he is found innocent, the paranoid enraged mindset trained into the officially designated oppressed groups will explode; as a consequence the flash mob attacks and knock out games will expand and intensify.
These jagovs have set race relations back sixty years, and its all by design. Divide and conquer.
And the beat of the tower of Babel goes on. Sodom and Gomorrah are rising and 60 pound hailstones will soon be falling. The only refuge is the name of theLord and that shall be Jesus.
@Wm T Sherman:
I have not been following this as closely as most of you here. But my impression from the debates and comments I’ve seen is that people have already made up their minds, speaking about guilt and innocence, as if they have all the facts and evidence in.
I think those on the right have done just as much to make this into a race issue as those predictable race agitators on the left. And some are automatically giving Zimmerman a pass and Martin condemnation as an aggressor and some sort of juvenile misfit.
But maybe it’s only an impression and I’ve read everyone all wrong. As I stated, I have not been following this all that closely as FA readers have been doing. It’s just not that riveting to me, and I’ll let the trial play out and the jury decide the verdict.
Skook,
Your opening story reminded me of one told by Joe Hyams, last chapter in his book, Zen in the Art of Martial Arts. An angry motorist wants to take his head off after Hyams almost causes an accident by going the wrong way; Hyams apologizes for his mistake; even though he is confident in his martial abilities and ready for a physical confrontation, he avoids one by diffusing the situation from escalating into a headache that both parties don’t need to have happen. Hyams concedes to the man that he is twice the man’s age and what would it prove to be beating up on an old man? By not reacting anger for anger, ego for ego, and feeding into the hostility with an aggressive response of his own, Hyams removed any incentive for the man to follow through with his verbal threats of violence by maintaining his calm, owning up to his own mistake, until the man also calmed down.
Joe Hyams won by losing.
@Wm T Sherman:
Or it means you can’t follow and then shoot an unarmed teenager walking down the street because you think he looks like your stereotype of an “officially designated oppressed group” and you’ve decided with one glance he’s up to no good and needs to be dealt with.
C’mon Tom, you’re not listening.
Read the transcripts or listen to the testimony.
You’ve made up your mind, but don’t have the facts straight.
Skookum
very well said, you brought the other solution , which could have save the life,
and to be be in tune with reality, I say which could have saved the two lives,
because George Zimmerman has died also , in the last almost two years,
everything which has happened was a darkness from hell,
for trying to stay alive
@Wordsmith: What a neat story. I was worried that people might think I was trying to create a mountain out of a thimble’s worth of sand.
Pride and prejudice set up this tragedy, and the tragedy continues.
If a cordial greeting had been offered by either young man, would Trayvon be dead?
@Tom:
You have completely misrepresented the events of that night. Maybe you even believe what you wrote; if so, more’s the pity.
Late last week the Martin family’s lawyers changed their tune and stated that this case is not about racial profiling — apparently, in view of last week’s testimony they feel they can’t sustain the story any longer.
George Zimmerman ceased following when the police dispatcher indicated that he should do so. He went out to a nearby street to look for a street address.
The only reason that the two came into contact after that point is Martin, who had reached his father’s house some distance away, turned back and went to confront Zimmerman. He punched and knocked Z down, and then straddled, punched and beat his head into the sidewalk. What is known about Martin is consistent with him being somebody who might do that — aspiring gangster and participant in unofficial MMA style street fighting bouts.
If Zimmerman had not had a gun, then it is quite possible that Trayvon Martin would be on trial for second degree murder instead of Zimmerman.
Zimmerman may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but his actions before the confrontation were legal. The case was not prosecuted initially because there was no case. The Martin family lawyers needed criminal charges in order to bring a civil suit – money. A PR firm was used to generate public sentiment, an opportunity was sensed by politicians, and it took off from there.
This will not end well.
@robin4est: @robin4est:
So if it were your son, you would have no problem with GZ’s decisions and actions that night. You would be satisfied it was inevitable and entirely your son’s fault that he ended up dead?
@Wm T Sherman:
Even if your version of events are true you are conveniently ignoring what precipitated them, namely GZ playing policeman with a loaded gun and clearly scaring/agonizing TM. If GZ just minds his own business instead of profiling TM and setting events in motion, none of this happens. And by the way, both you and GZ would do well to learn that appearing to your eyes to be “an aspiring gangster” is not a summary capital sentence in America. We have something called due process. Try as you might, you can’t extricate GZ’s terrible judgement from what happened. Your hypotheticals are irrelevant in the face of a dead youth, something you might remember once in a while, the actual outcome, the true cost. The lack of empathy for the real victim around here is stunning.
@Tom:
? TM returned to pick a fight. He wasn’t scared. He was belligerent because he felt he’d been ‘disrespected.’
Logic fail and reading comprehension fail. (1) Zimmerman did not set out to kill nor even to make contact with Martin. He had a legally carried gun for self protection. He was headed out to the store when he spotted a person who looked like thieves that had previously visited the neighborhood – that is indeed a type of profiling, and everyone, including you, including Trayvon Martin, including the police, does it. (2) The point, which you missed, is plausibility of Martin initiating a physical attack for some real or imagined slight. It’s plausible.
He initiated a street fight over ‘disrespect’ and was bashing a man’s head into the sidewalk when he was shot. He is not a victim, except perhaps of parents who failed him and of a culture that rewards antisocial behavior.
You are conflating what you consider poor judgement on Zimmerman’s part with criminal intent and criminal liabilty. They are not the same thing. And bad outcome does not equal bad intent. Zimmerman is not a hero. He is also not the criminal that he is charged with being. This case is of interest here because many believe this to be a politically motivated prosecution. The same template of prosecution by the state based on political gain or political convenience could be applied to any one of us and this is not rule of law.
and why does the blacks kill each other in CHICAGO ?
IT IS A PLAGUE IN THERE,and they cannot CLAIM RACIST,
THEY ARE BLACK AGAINST BLACK,
Absolutely correct.
@Tom: My son would not have acted that way. My son would have been apologetic and explained what he was doing, not aggressive and attacking. People’s actions have consequences. Martin never thought far enough ahead to understand that.
http://www.wtsp.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=2384667563001
live court coverage
@Tom: Your bias is inexcusable, and makes all you state instantly dismissible. Start thinking critically and stop being part of the mass ignorance bringing this country to it’s knees.
Dismissed.
The Christian Science Monitor has a quiz, How much do you know about the Trayvon Martin case?
It really is more about the publicity around the case than it is about the court case.
But it is interesting.
Average score only 61%.
I got 70%.
How would some here do?
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2013/0606/How-much-do-you-know-about-the-Trayvon-Martin-case-Take-our-quiz/Million-hoodie-march?nav=87-frontpage-mostViewed
Strange isn’t it how in the US in 2012 a 65 yo white guy in a MB is treated differently than a black teen in a hoodie.
Martin weighed 160 pounds Zimmerman weighed 200
But keep listening to Merle. Here is part of his interview in Rolling Stone where he talks about meeting Obama.
While talking with Rolling Stone, Haggard, who had previously met Richard Nixon and (then-governor) Ronald Reagan, seemed troubled with the media’s representation of President Barack Obama.
“It was also nice to meet Obama and find him very different from the media makeout,” Haggard told the magazine. “It’s really almost criminal what they do with our president. There seems to be no shame or anything. They call him all kinds of names all day long, saying he’s doing certain things that he’s not. It’s just a big old political game that I don’t want to be part of. There are people spending their lives putting him down. I’m sure some of it’s true and some of it’s not. I was very surprised to find the man very humble and he had a nice handshake. His wife was very cordial to the guests and especially me. They made a special effort to make me feel welcome. It was not at all the way the media described him to be.”
anybody you meet always give a good profile impression,
what else do you expect to see?
the core of that person with all his nefarious agenda?
@Tom:
If it were my son, and he had been sent to live with me by his mother after he had been expelled from school for unacceptable behavior, a kid who obviously was heading down the wrong track, I would not have left him alone, unsupervised, affording him the opportunity to get into even more trouble.
But then Tracy Martin, the father, did not seem too concerned about his son’s failure to appear home that night as he waited until the next day to try to find him.
So I have to ask you, Tom; if your 17 year old son failed to come home by a reasonable hour, would you have waited until the next morning to try to find him?
@Wm T Sherman:
And nowhere have a stated that GZ was a cold blooded killer, or that this was a premeditated killing. But that doesn’t change the fact that he killed someone. We know for a fact from the police call how he interpreted a teenager walking down the street. We also know he didn’t choose to stay in his car, drive home, and allow the police to do their job. Those are two terrible errors in judgement (and likely not the only ones) that are directly connected to the outcome.
As for your version of events, that TM was the instigator, and that it was all about “disrespect”, that TM wasn’t alarmed that he was being watched/followed by GZ, obviously you have no irrefutable proof for any of that. And you’re clearly dismissing out of hand the testimony of Rachel Jeantel if you’re arriving at those conclusions, particularly the ones about his state of mind and whether he felt threatened by GZ during the moments leading up to the incident.
@Randy:
Obviously, you didn’t answer the question, Randy. What you did was prove my point, that your opinion is entirely contingent upon your willingness to dehumanize TM. Most teenagers act like dopes at one time or another, and they don’t possess the manners or good judgements of adults (your son being the obvious exception). No teenager deserves to die because he doesn’t live up to your Leave it to Beaver sensibility.
@retire05:
Another person who can’t answer a simple question, but would rather use the opportunity to judge and dehumanize the victim. It’s nice to know you think it’s fine for a teenager to die if his mother isn’t enforcing the curfew you’ve subsequently decided he should have.
@Tom: #11- Tom, a dead youth, as bad as that is, was preventable BY THAT YOUTH, if he did not confront GZ- this is a culling process, by which the less able to survive do not do so. That is a fact of life- If TM had had the intelligence to avoid the confrontation, instead of the hormones to engage in the fight, he would have survived- instead, he played it macho, and now he is dead. Like i said, he was not that smart.
I’ve stayed away from commenting on this issue simply because I wasn’t there and accordingly, I’m ignorant of the true facts. The gaps and voids in the details, along with the validity of the sources thus far, makes it impossible for me to arrive at an educated matter-of-factually conclusion. It’s indeed interesting how people will construe what information we’ve attained to validate an agenda they favor.
Skook’s argument is rather specious on several fronts and seems to invent its own theme of the Travon case. It’s akin to a simple case of road rage. Quite often, generally good people become momentary enraged over rather minute traffic incidents. They’re driving the car they bought and insured on a road their taxes paid for and obeying the laws (just minding their own business) when someone cuts them off, intrudes in their space, or infringes on their freedom, and they become instantly pissed. Quite often (and yes, there are exceptions), they regain their composure quickly. This phenomenon of tilting one’s applecart over sounds like the case of the rancher as he was simply wanting to pull his truck into his driveway and his routine was obstructed.
How Skook equates that night to his rancher confrontation with such conviction is beyond me. Would tact have defused the fight on the night of the shooting? We don’t know. What if George had simply explained his position in an eloquent manner? Or, did he? We don’t know. Had an unarmed Skook became belligerent (which I’m assuming is implying that Trayvon did) with the rancher and ended up fatally shot, is that in itself justification?
Skook’s argument seems to assume that Zimmerman was minding his own business and Trayvon came along and made him all mad, presenting a need for Trayvon to calm him down, to explain himself, to apologize. Considering it was a gated neighborhood, perhaps Trayvon had an obligation to explain himself but was he given that opportunity? We don’t know. Did Trayvon know he was in a gated community? Perhaps Trayvon felt Zimmerman was intruding? Perhaps Zimmerman could have calmed the lad down by simply explaining his role in the neighborhood? But again, I really don’t know as I wasn’t there.
Another concept here seems to be that trouble could have been avoided had Trayvon followed the protocol that’s avoided trouble for years. Had he simply said “sorry sir”, “yes sir”, “it won’t happen again sir”, then “this whole incident would have been nothing more noteworthy than a fart in a typhoon”.
Civility is always the best avenue in any confrontation. When one is in error, an apology is owed. When one is in the wrong, an explanation is due. However, there are too many variables left unanswered.
On a final note, Skook was able to calm a quite angry and perhaps irrational rancher down with calm and rational conversation. There seems to be a tone that suggests Trayvon is at fault for failing to utilize that same tactic. If there’s validity in that implication, one has to say that Zimmerman’s defense is that it was okay to shoot the unarmed guy because he was simply an asshole that failed to calm his road rage in an expeditious manner.
I don’t know what all that crap past “fart in a typhoon” comes from. Apparently everyone thinks Martin was the devil incarnate, and Zimmerman the choir boy. Frankly, I don’t think I much like either character. But that’s not important.
What is important is the first part of that sentence, before it leaps off into condemnation of Martin for the ensuing commentary…. If Trayvon had reached out and spoken with George, this whole incident would have been nothing more noteworthy than a fart in a typhoon…snip…
Both Zimmerman and Rachel admit the first exchange was a question from Martin, asking why he was being followed.
Is that not the point of this fable?
So, when Martin asked that question – no matter what tone in was asked (and we don’t even know that) – what then should Zimmerman have responded? After all, he was the adult of the two, armed with live round in chamber. He was the one tracking Martin’s movements for over five minutes. He was the one with 46 lbs of advantage, as well as a year and a half of MMA training, 3 days a week, prior to the murder.
Again, is that not the point of this fable?
Both Zimmerman and Rachel agree that Martin knew Zimmerman was following him for quite some time (at least 4-5 minutes), and that Martin was trying to lose him. And yet the burden is on the hunted to reach out to the hunter? Odd… Actually it’s the perfect scenario for Martin to exercise SYG rights. Instead, he asked why he was being followed.
Just why do some many conservatives abhor our judicial system, wanting to allow a special individual the right to bypass our laws? A 17 year old is dead. There are enough questions about Zimmerman’s multiple changing stories that warranted scrutiny that a trial should be held… just like happens all the time in vehicular homicide cases.
This is up to a jury, not the public. And it’s offensive that anyone wants to give Zimmerman a get out of jail free card and label him some sort of an RKBA hero. He’s the quintessential example of an irresponsible CCW, who exhibited aggressive behavior and did not diffuse the situation when handed the chance. Whether he’s guilty of second degree murder, only a jury can say. But I can say he’s absolutely guilty of bad judgement, and irresponsible behavior.
@john: You bring up a legitimate point, but remember, the property owner had a short fuse and met me at my door with the intention of a confrontation, either verbal or mano e mano.
After many years of martial arts and boxing, and a lifetime of working with horses that weigh over a half ton and move faster than a house cat, a two hundred pound man in an agitated state is no threat. It would easy to neutralize him or disable him, but why? To prove a point, no, that is for immature people. I can still workout with the MMA boys and get all the ego and humility adjustments I need. The key to the situation and to working with horses and to life in general is to finesse the situation and disarm your opponent psychologically or physically if necessary.
In my Trayvon moment, only one of us was hostile, and one of us was employing common sense, an ingredient that was missing in the Trayvon/George confrontation.
As far as musicians and celebrities, I appreciate those who don’t use their status to influence the public.
I like the old school Country and Western people, and consider the new artists to be little more than bubble gum chewers that belong in the pop charts and designations. From what little I’ve read of Merle, he has turned his life around and tries to put forth a good image. He is entitled to his opinion.
@Tom: Tom I believe many older Repubs. are living in a ‘Leave It To Beaver”, “Ozzie and Harriet” mentality. Heck,I grew up with that. Lived as an adult in Laguna Beach and was an acquaintance of Harriet Nelson.
Scoop—-It’s not reality and as a cartoon notes “I’m not sure it ever was”
Life has changed since the 50’s and 60’s and for better or worse we’re not going back.
G.Z. and T.M both made mistakes that night—-one is dead and one’s life is fractured. A tragedy that could have been avoided. Obviously no winners here. I believe G.Z. will be acquitted .
@Ronald J. Ward: I don’t have an agenda in this issue, except for the fact that a young man is dead and there was a lack of common sense exhibited by both participants.
Although, George had the firepower, and as a responsible weapon carrier, it was his responsibility to avoid an unnecessary confrontation.
The reason we have no clear picture of the confrontation is because there are no witnesses, besides George and an audio witness, Rachael, whose story is in a state of evolution and in most cases would be considered as unreliable.
Obviously, my encounter was different, but the Trayvon/Martin could have been different, just as a hundred confrontations are resolved each day by sensible people, without chips on their shoulders, who avoid bloodshed and bruised egos with a measure of common sense and civility.
It’s true the rancher trying to leave his place was in an agitated state and could have been provoked into an escalating confrontation, but it it took a little effort on my part to diffuse the situation, not a question that could have been interpreted as a challenge to young men who have manhood issues at stake.
Ronald J. Ward
hi,
you brought good points, I would like to debate it with my own points
if you allow.
yes TRAYVON had a ROAD RAGE after he was ask one question : what are you doing?
he was looking in every windows as he walk by the row of houses.
it made GEORGE ZIMMERMAN suspicious which he call the officer about it,
TRAYVON was watching him ,
there was a big poster with said of the community guardian, big enough to see,
there was very many break in , that explain why THE GUARDIAN WAS HIRED,
the officer told him : you don’t need to follow him, so GEORGE ZIMMERMAN was going back to his car,
the police was coming,
TRAYVON WAS SPEAKING TO A GIRLFRIEND ON HIS PHONE,
he was building anger ,
and decide to go to the guard and told him he will kill him,
push him down punch him , broke his nose, and bash his head on the concrete, on and on,
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN YELL FOR HELP, no one came,
then he manage to take his gun and shot him he was under him and lock down the other was putting his weight on him, to lock him down.
he shot him because he thought he was loosing conscience and dying,
he said that,
bye
@Richard Wheeler: I didn’t watch those shows until I left home, but I looked at them from a unique perspective. I thought to myself, surely no one lives like this, but it was a different age and people were more naive.
I think George will be acquitted, not necessarily because he is without guilt, but because he was overcharged and the prosecution hasn’t presented a decent case. Like you, I think it is a terrible tragedy in the classic sense of Aristotle, a catharsis for all of us.
@Tom:
Once again, Tom, honesty seems to elude you. I did not “dehumanize” the victim, nor did I place any judgement on the young man. The people here that should be judged are his parents who failed to guide him away from the path he seemed to be taking. And again I ask you, if you had a troubled 17 year old who had been expelled from school and sent to you to try to straighten him out, would you have left him unsupervised and not been curious about his whereabouts when he did not return home at a reasonable hour?
You show just how little you [refuse to] know. Trayvon Martin was NOT living with his mother for her to enforce anything, including a curfew. He was living with his father, and his father’s latest girlfriend, Brandi Greene. But his father, and his girlfriend, left him unsupervised that night and when he did not return home, they were seemingly unconcerned about his whereabouts until the next morning. Now, I ask you, what kind of parent doesn’t worry about a 17 year old who is gone all night? What kind of parent doesn’t go looking for that 17 year old?
I can tell you, the kind of parent that has batted a kid around like a Ping-Pong ball. Trayvon, first living with his parents at birth, wound up living with his father and his father’s second wife after Tracy Martin finally decided to divorce his first wife, Sabrina. Tracy remained married to Alicia until he decided to trade her in for Brandi Green, who he was currently living with (but has since dumped to appear as Father of The Year). But when the marriage to Alicia ended, did Tracy take his son with him? Nope, he sent Trayvon back to the mother the kid had not lived with for over 7 years, throwing the kid into a new environment at a critical age. Then Sabrina, not able to deal with Trayvon’s delinquency, put the kid on a bus and sent him back to his father.
Was this young man a victim? Yes, but he was a victim long before that fateful night. He was a victim of parents who gave him no stability, no grounding. Our prisons are full of kids that were raised just like Trayvon Martin.
“Or it means you can’t follow and then shoot an unarmed teenager walking down the street because you think he looks like your stereotype of an “officially designated oppressed group” and you’ve decided with one glance he’s up to no good and needs to be dealt with.”
Perhaps it would mean that making such moronic, inflammatory statements with no basis in fact would be finally realized to be, at least, not helpful and, at worst, destructive, if Zimmerman is found innocent and further violence ensues.
@MataHarley: I believe #30 might alleviate you apprehensions over my intent.
I have no dogs in this hunt. I worry over the Second Amendment and how irresponsible acts can work to undermine the Amendment and other than that I pity the two young men. Trayvon never had a chance in life and now George will be ruined financially and looking over his shoulder the rest of his life.
Such tragedies are not new, Oedipus killed his father inadvertently during an early case of road rage. Young men have been killing each other over manhood issues since the ancient Greeks wrote of tragedy and long before they were able to write of tragedy. George may be acquitted, but he will be dragging the body of Trayvon with him for the rest of his life, and there is the point of the fable or the catharsis of George and Trayvon.
One has to wonder Ilovebeeswarzone, with such strong indisputable knowledge of the events of that evening, why you’re not testifying in Sandford FL. Or perhaps, why they’re even having a trial at all?
@Skookum: Skooks I believe Mata is absolutely on point in her #37. Your input and concerns are also valid.
IMO the problem is with those that hold either of these young men without fault. Let this tragic story play out in court. Hopefully, we’ll learn—
I would say Skookum, that your concern of irrational acts affecting the 2nd Amendment has merit. While I adamantly support the right to bear arms, I’m not a fan of Stand Your Ground laws or at least, as some states want to interpret.
Regardless of the Zimmerman outcome, such laws are not only dangerous but will continue to drive the gun control debate. In Texas for example, one can use lethal force to retrieve stolen property. So we have cases such as the acquittal of Ezekiel Gilbert of murdering a 23-year-old Craigslist escort after she refused to have sex with him and refused to return his money. And there’s 24-year-old Benito Pantoja who was shot and killed for $20.29 stolen from a tip jar in Houston. Instead of settling debt issues in a civil court, one can simply shoot first and ask questions later.
But the real issue here isn’t about an infringement on the 2nd Amendment but rather the NRA manipulating legislative bodies in order to enhance sales.
@Tom
You either have no knowledge of the case, or you are trolling. Martin did not get shot as he was “walking down the street.” He got shot while straddled over a man and fighting (according to Z and uninvolved witness), and according to Z’s testimony, Martin was trying to take Z’s gun. Also Z had injuries that show he was being beaten.
The jury will decide if Z is guility or innocent of the charge.
@Ronald J. Ward:
Actually, it’s a little more complicated than your simple explanation.
Again, a bit more complicated. The hooker was attempting to leave in a cap driven by her pimp when Gilbert demanded his money back and he shot her in the neck.
Yet, Pantoja, a Hispanic, was stealing money from another Hispanic. Oooooops.
Retire05, I understand complexities are always prevalent in legal cases such as these. I realize the prostitute’s case will likely always be argued like the McDonald’s coffee spill lawsuit.
Regardless, the specifics of the cases you mentioned, or perhaps the rationale you gave for them, they doesn’t discredit my argument. Laws such as these are not about protecting the 2nd Amendment. They’re lobbied by the NRA for a shear profit objective, to sell more guns.
And such laws are quite dangerous as well.
According to Trayvon’s stepmother, she raised him since he was three years old, and just until the past year prior to his death. (she said 14 years, but that’s probably a year too long, considering he had just turned seventeen). He was not living with Brandi Green in Sanford at the Retreat at Twin Lakes, but residing in Miami. I don’t know if the father was living with Green or just visiting, or who Martin lived with after the divorce between the stepmother and his father.
But if the stepmother’s timeline is accurate but not exact, it appears that the father has not been with Brandi Green for very long, and he hasn’t been living with his mother for most of his life. This gives him a relatively stable home life with the stepmother and father for the majority of his short life, which can hardly be classified as a “ping pong ball”.
You can watch the two part CNN video interview with the stepmother, Alicia Stanley… Part 1, and Part 2. My personal impressions is that she seems like a very concerned stepmom who loved Trayvon.
The damage to RKBA has always been one of my top concerns INRE this case, Skook. Raising Zimmerman to iconic gun owner status is a most foolhardy move. He is not what I want as the example of a responsible CCW gun owner. So I have to agree… a lose lose for both… and possibly for RKBA rights long term. Martin’s life was needlessly cut short and Zimmerman did not diffuse the situation and quell his suspicions in a reasonable manner. So Zimmerman may end up free… and probably rich with books and TV movies. But he will carry this around his neck, as do OJ and Casey Anthony. Also, like OJ and Anthony, Zimmerman doesn’t appear to feel remorse for his choices that night.
Ronald J. WARD
HI, IS THAT AN ARROGANT ANSWER?
ah well it’s okay,
but I notice you haven’t seen the older POSTS we had at the start of that beating to kill
resulting in the young man being killed so to save his life, he was under, no place to go no one to help,
we had very lively POSTS ABOUT 6 OF IT FULL OF OPINIONS FROM BOTH SIDES,
CHECK IT UP IN THE OLDER POSTS,
that’s where I made up my mind on the POSTS and comments ,
you will be able to know more from the start,
@Tom: Really Tom? GZ was a neighborhood watch captain (wc) in a neighborhood that had experienced multiple break-ins over the years. His experience the night TM was killed was not the first time he had been in that position. If fact, his duties as WC had him calling the police (non-emergency 911) on average about once every two months over the course of a number of years. There is no history (of which I am aware) of him being being over-bearing, or bullying.
@retire05:
And your tale of Trayvon Martin and his family has no bearing on this incident, of course, since GM didn’t know TM prior to the fateful night, so TM’s personal history and alleged character flaws would have no bearing on GZ’s judgement of the situation, since they were completely unknown to him. It’s just more grist for the mill. You, or anyone on this tread, are certainly not the first people to conceive of a defense (criminal or in the court of public opinion) based on trashing the character of the victim. But, as I pointed out, it’s all completely irrelevant to GZ’s frame of mind. GZ made his judgements based entirely on TM’s appearance and what he labeled as ‘suspicious’ behavior the night in question.
@Ronald J. Ward: I am not familiar with the cases, but unless the law puts a dollar amount on stolen property or money that clarifies when lethal force can be used, $21 may have way more meaning to some people. It’s for sure the thief was willing to risk his life to steal it.
I leave the world of escorts and whores to those who enjoy such pastimes; personally, I could have benefitted from less female companionship rather than more.
I don’t own a weapon in California, unless you want to count a cap and ball pistol from the mid-nineteenth century. I have a rifle in Canada that I have hunted with since I was a boy and that’s all there is in my arsenal. Oh I have my lion and bear hunting dogs for home protection, and I am handy with a bokken and the catana for humans, but I feel confident with my hands and feet.
I don’t belong to the NRA, but I think target shooters, collectors, and hunters need a lobby group; otherwise, their activities would be wiped away and their beloved weapons collected. Would we be safer?
Outlaws will never surrender their weapons and they are sure to become more bold when they know most people are defenseless. Yes, I think the NRA does an admirable job of representing weapon owners, but I don’t see how they encourage people to buy more weapons. If my age catches up with me in this frantic life I lead, I will probably buy a weapon for the U.S.. Don’t worry, I’ve had a lot of instruction and practical experience, courtesy of our boys in green.
@Meremortal:
Of course I never wrote that, so you’re barking up the wrong tree. I wrote “you can’t follow and then shoot an unarmed teenager walking down the street” (emphasis added). The critical decision was following TM. Everything that happened after that point was avoidable if GZ didn’t try to play your friendly neighborhood profiling policeman.
@JonV:
You can’t shoot an innocent person and blame it on crimes committed in the past, by others. If anything, your points just go to the mindset of GZ, a person who possibly felt victimized, was angry and on edge. He perhaps wanted to strike a blow for the neighborhood and had a itchy trigger finger. I’m not sure why you think these revelations make him seem less guilty. Let’s review, he’s not a professional law enforcement officer, has no training, and isn’t uniformed. TM knew nothing about him other than the fact GZ was following him. Here’s a question for you: do you think if a uniformed police officer had ultimately been the person who confronted TM that night, that TM would be dead today?
Here’s something else to think about. Two things GZ could have done after seeing TM that would have likely avoided a deadly confrontation: 1) call the police and then go home. 2) say to TM “hey, buddy. you look lost. Can I help you?”
@MataHarley:
Some people have no problem rationalizing the taking of a life or else it just doesn’t matter to them, and others, let the taking of human life in war, destroy them.
It is hard to predict their responses; I remind you of the braggart Jerome, in the story we
New Year’s Coyote
/” rel=”nofollow”> New Year’s Coyote
, under whose truck I tied a freshly skinned coyote. He had a nervous breakdown because he thought he had dragged someone’s dog to death.George will probably have an untimely end, whether he feels remorse or not and that is what I meant by saying he will be dragging Trayvon’s corpse with him, just like the drunk Jerome was dragging the dead coyote behind his truck.
@Tom: I wish I would have written these lines: