I am considered by some to be a Crazy-Ass Cracker, but if we drop the pretenses of racism, I survived my own Trayvon moment a few days ago.
I was trying to find a horse ranch along a narrow two lane, winding road with no shoulder in an extremely wealthy rural area of Ventura County. The GPS on my Ipad mini is nearly impossible to read in direct sunlight and this was a day of record setting heat and intense sunlight. I noticed I had passed my objective and pulled over onto the gated driveway of a rich man’s estate to recalibrate my GPS. The sunlight was preventing me from getting a good reading, my AC was set at Mach 1, and my radio was belting out Merle Haggard with enough volume for a legally deaf man like myself to hear classic music.
The owner, of the ranch and driveway I was blocking, pulled up and honked his horn for me to move, but after losing 75% of my hearing, I had no idea he was there, as I continued to try and figure out my location in the glaring sunlight.
For some reason I looked to the right as a highly agitated man was getting out of his truck and swinging his arms in animated gestures.
He was pissed.
He walked behind my MB to get my license number, I opened my door to apologize and he met me at the door.
Now, after years of martial arts and handling athletic un-sedated horses, I have confidence, and I think this was a factor.
I said to him, as he was blasted with the maximum volume of an old Country and Western song, “I am sorry, I am deaf and didn’t know you were there. I am looking for ‘this address’ and I think I have passed it.”
His demeanor changed immediately. Speaking slowly and concisely like I might be simple minded as well, he offered to guide me to the correct address.
No one was shot or beat up, if you were looking for action and blood, you just wasted your time.
However, I believe there is a moral to this story.
If Trayvon had reached out and spoken with George, this whole incident would have been nothing more noteworthy than a fart in a typhoon, but because he was Black, he is not supposed to assume he can talk to people from other races and his violence is to be expected. Seriously folks, the prosecution is depending on this premise like it is an unwritten part of our judicial code.
Sadly, this attitude is perpetuated by the race pimps of our society, the Al’s and Jessie’s who make a good living segregating minorities from mainstream America. If a gulf exists, they do everything within their power to make it larger.
Critical Race Theory and the hatred it engenders has become an industry. An industry where White Supremacists are part of a system of suppression and hatred they don’t even know exists. Yet the race baiters who hold Critical Race Theory to their bosom like a religion, point their fingers at people who are often scratching their heads and wondering how they were left out of all the turmoil.
Many of us sit perplexed as we learn of Skittles and Watermelon Tea being used as components to get high from codeine.
We are also confused when threats of riots are used to influence trials or perhaps trials are undertaken without proper evidence to neutralize threats of violence and riot or maybe to pave the way for a handsome payout from a civil trial.
We are told we just don’t understand witnesses who would normally be facing contempt and perjury; somehow, such behavior is excused when race is an issue.
Does the mob have that much influence over our courts, can they force a prosecutor to go to trial with evidence that is making him look incompetent or did he want a show trial in the Nifong tradition as a springboard to higher political office.
Is this a trial of race relations? Let’s have it out in the open if it is; since, it is making a mockery of our judicial system. A race trial would be far more interesting than bringing witnesses for the prosecution that the defense would be hard put to improve upon with a script.
Trying a case without proper evidence on a national stage to appease a family and the race pimps of America will be a humiliating experience for the prosecutors. We can only hope the race pimps and prosecutors who hope to capitalize on dubious claims of racism will have second thoughts, in the future, before rushing into cases that make them look foolish and incompetent.
Defending against charges of racism is difficult, since racism is often in the eye of the racially offended, and it is much easier to pay the aggrieved than to fight feelings that are nearly impossible to quantify.
Our Commander in Chief set this travesty in motion by injecting his personal feelings into the tragedy and the trial was predestined to proceed, whether the prosecution had a case or not.
Now, America and the world is being entertained by a theatrical performance that would be ignored by a paying public if it wasn’t real.
Aristotle defined tragedies by saying they must produce a catharsis among the audience members. Catharsis as a metaphor, used by Aristotle, has been accepted to mean a purging of excessive emotions, and why else would a prosecutor make a theatrical production out of a murder trial.
Tragedy, Aristotle:
“A tragedy, then, is the imitation of an action that is serious and also, as having magnitude, complete in itself; in language with pleasurable accessories, each kind brought in separately in the parts of the work; in a dramatic, not in a narrative form; with incidents arousing pity and fear, wherewith to accomplish its catharsis of such emotions.”
The killing of Trayvon was a tragedy, the ethos of George will be played out in the future, in the meantime we can all analyze the mythos or plot and apply it to our own lives.
A professional horseman for over 50 years, Skook continues to work with horses. Skook has finished an historical novel, Fifty Thousand Years, that traces a mitochondrial line of DNA from 50,000 years ago to the present. The story follows a line of courageous women, from the Ice Ages to the present, as they meet the challenges of survival with grit and creativity. These are not women who whimper of being victims, they meet the challenges of survival as women who use their abilities without excuses or remorse, these women are winners, they are our ancestors.
Fifty Thousand Years is available in paperback and e-book, it is getting great reviews. You can purchase a copy here; Visit me on Facebook.
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Dylantheauthor
Bees, I didn’t mean to be arrogant and I’ll concede my responses sometimes come across as a bit snarky. I’ve read the opinions of many bloggers on this so I’m sure those older comments are much alike. I haven’t given an opinion of guilt or innocence of either party. I’ll leave that up to the court and jury. I’m finding more people building a case either way in what I assume to be their defense in the event judgment doesn’t go their way.
The concept of assigning blame to Trayvon because he failed to articulate a soothing response to someone suffering a bad case of road rage was just too hard to pass up.
Ronald J Ward
yes, I sometimes push my opinion
but the older posts are really interesting,
I am now on another person computer which crash on me at the least expected time,
my own laptop decide to die on me, so I CANNOT FIND THOSE OLD POSTS FOR YOU,
I won’t have time for it,
but you could see a real debate on each comments.
funny we all left together at the same times,
I ‘m talking of hundreds of comments there only on one post,
and more on the other posts.
bye
@Tom: Tom,
1. You make a slew of assumptions relating to GZs state of mind (anger, victimization, ‘on edge’, ‘wanting to strike a blow’, etc.). I’m not sure what warrants these assumptions. Be careful that they don’t stem from your OWN stereotypical view of gun-owners or folks simply interested in maintaining a safe neighborhood.
2. You don’t have to be a professional to be a neighborhood watch captain. Have you listened or read the transcript of his conversation with the authorities? Everything I heard seemed to indicate that this was a man in control (not “itchy”). Additionally, he was compliant when instructed by the authorities not to follow TM (which gives a pretty clear state of mind).
3. I’m not sure where you live, but “waiting for the police” often means waiting for the police to talk to witnesses about the manner in which the victim(s) died.
Replies to your things to “think about”.
1) why all this confidence that the police will solve our problems? see #3 above
2) we don’t know this didn’t happen.
Bottom line: regardless of what could – or should – have happened, TM was apparently on top top of GZ, beating his head into the ground. If the beating had continued, who is to say at what point GZ has brain damage – or is killed?
Questions for you: 1) if you’re getting you head beat into the ground, what do you do to stop the guy giving you the beating?
2) If TM had continued beating GZ UNTIL a neighbor – or the police approached – would GZ still be alive?
3) if in fact TM was on top of and beating GZ, what would be a valid reason? TM had no marks on his body – other than abrasions on his knuckles…
@Ronald J. Ward:
It may seem out of character for Trayvon and many other young people, he past up the opportunity to be civil and it cost him his life. Now, what was his point?
Like pulling out into an intersection when the light turns green with a semi going too fast in the oncoming lane to stop, what is the point? You are going to die. Like it or not, fair or not, this was the final result and he accomplished nothing.
Sometimes, it is best to swallow your pride and file a complaint the next morning. His pride killed him and it is the same pride that will haunt George for the rest of his life. It is a lesson for everyone, there are no winners, only losers.
on FOX NEWS, this suppose PROSECUTOR has been , and a guess of fox said that GZwas saying different lines
of course after repeating so many times the same line change a syllable or two,
that prosecutor is already sending him in jail for those errors,
when you are there in their hands, you walk a fine line,
between freedom and 15 years in prison.
the PROSECUTOR said it’s not a racist matter,
ah yes? but he will do his damn to have GEORGE ZIMMERMAN get 15 years in jail.
Zimmerman has never personally experienced a “break in”. But he has called in multiple incidents and suspicious characters over the years. Nor was he ever in the same position he was with Martin that evening because he didn’t follow those he was calling, instead waiting for the police as Neighborhood Watch guidelines say.
INRE what you do and do not know of Zimmerman’s past…. while not pertinent to this trial and charge, Zimmerman has in his past records, two charges in 2005 – resisting arrest and violent battery on a police officer. He was interfering with an undercover sting arrest, and didn’t realize he was assaulting a cop. Per his account, he says first the two charges were reduced, and then ultimately dropped. What Zimmerman didn’t volunteer is that the charges were dropped because he agreed to enter an alcohol rehab program.
Also on his record in 2006 is a domestic violence charge and reciprocal restraining orders with a former gal pal. I believe this is the same girlfriend that the feds had interviewed in their investigation. She also mentions he was using drugs that tended to make him more aggressive and cited them as the possible reason for his nature.
Around that same time, Zimmerman had a MySpace page – datniggtytb – that he or the family deleted after the Martin charges, since it cast the then early 20 something Zimmerman in a not so pleasant light. You can read some of the content of the deleted 2005 MySpace page here. He had a second MySpace page as Joe G (onlytobekingagain) which is also deleted of all content. You can read some of those excerpts by a younger Zimmerman here.
If you are unaware of these incidents in his past, you’ll see Zimmerman is no choir boy either. His youthful indiscretions rise to more serious offenses than what is on Martin’s records for being booted out of school for a while for an empty baggie with marijuana residue. But I will say I can’t identify with Martin – part of the black youth of today, who tend to bandy about normally unPC terms in their street music and casual circles of friends. Doesn’t make them all thugs necessarily. Just that I don’t get the culture where “ho” and the n-word are uttered so casually between blacks.
Hence why I say I’m not endeared to either character.
But even if Martin were a convicted gang member, he was not engaged in any criminal activity that evening and you can’t be shot because last week you did a drive by shooting or committed a robbery. Thus Martin’s past events, prior to that evening, are irrelevant since he wasn’t engaged in a crime, and it’s not Martin that is on trial.
And as Tom rightly points out above, Zimmerman did not know Martin’s past. Had he recognized Martin from a wanted poster, or Martin had actually been engaged in a crime that night, Zimmerman wouldn’t be where he is today.
Zimmerman’s more youthful past is also not relevant to this trial. But it does point out that he’s not always the meek/mild personality as many wish to portray him, and has exhibited aggressive and violent tendencies. Personally, I’m with the former girlfriend and tend to chalk that up to the sundry drugs he’s admitted to taking over the years for his ADHD, an NIH recognized “mental illness”. I’ve watched this affect a personality first hand for decades in a young family member, started on these drugs in public middle school, who ultimately lost his life to accidental overdosing of his state prescribed drugs. Such “cures” often create different problems.
What might be relevant – and has already been stated in testimony by his physicians assistant medical provider – is the part of his medical records that include being under psychiatric care and participating in MMA classes in the 12-18 months prior to the shooting. Again, the State is going for Murder 2, so they want to show depraved state of mind and intent. As the PA stated, he was having problems with his prescribed drugs for his ADHD condition – one that would keep him awake to minimize the ADHD, but then leaving him insomniac… so a second drug to get him to sleep. Plus constipation which she believes may have been causing his sciatic pain. Needless to say, this up/down via drugs is doing a yo yo on the body with side effects as well.
@JonV:
Please go back and read what I wrote, and I think you’ll see these were advanced as hypotheticals. I do however feel fairly confident that he may have felt that way based on the very history you raised. As for stereotyping, what exactly is the negative stereotype of ” folks simply interested in maintaining a safe neighborhood”?! Do you think I don’t fall into that category? Perhaps we simply don’t agree on the recipe for a safe neighborhood. My personal feelings about GZ is that if he was driving around my neighborhood with a loaded gun, following teenagers walking down the street based on the way they look, regardless of his best intentions, I would consider him to be making the neighborhood more dangerous, not less.
I will answer your questions as a courtesy, but please understand I don’t necessarily agree with your narrative of what happened that night.
I would do whatever I could to survive. Of course, if I was in that position, it would truly be a case of self-defense because I wouldn’t have instigated the altercation by following the individual.
If a neighbor or the police had approached before TM was shot and killed, I assume, yes, he would have lived. If appears that he put up a fight, which it’s hard to blame him for, considering he was followed and confronted by a larger, adult grown man with a gun.
Self-defense can be a messy business. If you fee threatened and while fighting for your life you get the upper hand, I assume you’re going to press your advantage. A loaded gun, of course, makes it all moot in the end.
@Wordsmith: Good analogy. If Zimmerman is found innocent, which there is a pretty good chance, the agitators will be out in full force. The media will compound the problem by feeding off of the ensuing violence because it’ll give them an “exciting” news cycle. The wave of innocent victims will be an afterthought to them if they will even care. This incident never should have received the notoriety it has. It’s a local incident that was made into a national one just so the troublemakers have an excuse to cause trouble.
I read Hyams book a long time ago and still have the copy. A very practical book. Perhaps it’s time for a re-read.
I’m sorry.. you know this.. how? The only agreed upon thing is that Martin’s first question is, as I stated above, asking why he was being followed. How do you know the tone of that question?
According to one of Zim’s many accounts, he said he responded to that question that “he wasn’t” following him (????), and then Martin decked him, right then and there at the tee, until he pulled his gun and shot him. In another he said he didn’t get a chance to respond at all. Must be very inconvenient that witnesses hear a much longer verbal exchange, and the body wasn’t located any where near where he said it all happened. Again, more questions than answers.
The problem with listening to news outlet summaries is that all of the pieces of the witness puzzle don’t get fit together. Even at that, the puzzle is still missing lots of pieces.
Take for example that “apparently on top of GZ, beating his head into the ground” statement. This is what people take away from John Good’s testimony. The problem is two fold:
1: Good admitted multiple times that he only saw 8-10 seconds of the entire fight, where he places GZ on the bottom. However this is part of the fight that was before the gun shot. He did not see the fight leading to the gunshot because he went into the house.
2: He also stated he could not say that Martin was “beating his head into the ground”. He just said he saw downward arm movement… for about 8-10 seconds. But in that same 8-10 seconds, he says the fight was first on the grass and then on the concrete. So it must have been a very busy 8-10 seconds. But it was still not the seconds that just preceded the gunshot. And much could have changed when he went into the house… just as he said so much happened in that small snapshot of 8-10 seconds. (the whole event was 50-60 seconds approx)
I will also point out that Good testified that he has no idea who was screaming for help. He just thinks it was Zimmerman because he was on the bottom… his logic. But he also said he only heard one, maybe two cries. There were far more then that, so apparently Good missed the bulk of the fight where the screaming was constant.
Now consider witness Selma Moran, an architect who lived a few units down. She reenacted her movement from the kitchen window, hearing the gunshot, and out to her patio where she clearly and unequivocally saw Zimmerman on top – straddled on his knees like you’d ride a horse. It took her 3-4 seconds max because the kitchen is right next to the dining room sliders/patio. She said he never moved Martin’s arms and watched him until the guys with the flashlights arrived.
So we have one witness that has Zimmerman on the bottom sometime in the fight before the gunshot and before the repetitive screams for help, and another witness that has Zimmerman on top within seconds after the gunshot and the end of the screams.
Fights are not static. The fight positions could have changed for all he (John Good) knows. He is only a small segment early on in the fight and well before the end result.
@MataHarley: George’s testimony:
For what it is worth.
@Skookum, I’m aware of George’s more colorful repartee of the verbal exchange. (I especially have to laugh at the “you got me” stuff after shot…) The problem remains that had it happened as he said it happened, the body would be at the tee where he says he was ambushed, and not 35-40 ft south down the dog path.
This is why the police believe that Zimmerman was tracking Martin… because he wasn’t on the path where he said he was and evidently was moving south in those two minutes after hanging up from the NEN call. Zimmerman has always been adamant that he never was south of the tee, and was innocently “on the way back” to his SUV after finding an address when he was ambushed.
Zimmerman doesn’t need to take the stand. He’s doing so today as they play his various interrogation tapes. He says he never had a chance to ID himself, but says Martin passed him by near the beginning, and “circled” his car (which didn’t happen in the time frame as noted by the NEN call). He had three chances to ID himself, using his own stories. First when Martin passed him, a second when Martin “circled” him, and a third when Martin asked him why he was following him. (in another of Zimmerman’s interrogation versions, he says Martin asked him why he was following, and he said he wasn’t)
@MataHarley: Have you listened to all of the ear witness testimony?
At least TWO different householders spoke of the fight coming closer to them.
And they first heard it near the T.
But it came down toward their patios as it progressed.
Nan G, I’ve been monitoring the trial and I’m aware of the longer verbal altercation and potential travel. It was also in the witnesses depositions/written statements. Not one witness – including Good and his neighbor on the west side, or the Asian gentleman on the east side – can testify where it began, and all of it puts Zimmerman’s version of, paraphrased, “I was ambushed, decked and fought for my life right here at the tee” in a big question mark. So it’s a stretch to assume they did.
There is only one piece of evidence found in that area… his keychain flashlight. However that is the same area that Zimmerman was pacing to and fro following killing Martin (about three times, per Selma Moran, watching him do so). He could have lost that keychain then. On the other hand, if this big fight took place at the tee (as Zimmerman claims), you think Martin’s headphones and phone managed to stay on his person thru all that scuffle for 35-40ft south? And that’s why they were found by his body?
Zim’s stories, interrogations, and video reenactment has always had problems for time frame and location when put into alignment with:
1: the NEN call (documenting the time he hung up with the police and placing him in places which disagreed with his verbal versions and video reenactment)
2: the time log of the cut off with Rachel’s phone which would be the meeting of the two, (almost two minutes after the NEN hang up) and
3: the beginning of the 911 emergency calls from neighbors (an event in progress), some of which also documented the gunshot and quick death.
Thus why I have always supported a trial. This did not go down as Zimmerman stated. There are probably some true spots, other embellished spots, and some outright lies. Only a jury can suss out, ultimately, whether there is reasonable doubt for Murder 2 vs Zimmerman’s claim of self defense. And they will have to place that within a picture of a man who spent a good 4-5 minutes tracking Martin’s movements, as well as the reality that Martin had been running away from him during that time (via Zimmerman’s own admissions, which jives with Rachel’s).
If they find that Zimmerman was the cause for the confrontation, the self defense will not apply because you can’t hunt and confront, then shoot someone because they fight with or back. Under Florida law, which Zimmerman well knows with his criminal justice studies, if he admits to hunting Martin, he is the original aggressor. This is why he sticks to his “I was on my way back to my car” story. And since further south on the tee is not “on the way” to his car, he’s careful not to place himself in that area.
Skook, the “you got me” is what Zimmermans said Martin uttered when he got shot thru the heart, and collapsed his lungs.
There is no one single “testimony” from Zimmerman. Here’s a link to various police interviews, excerpts of what are being shown today. There is also the CVSA (stress analysis interview and test) which was over an hour. Again, Zimmerman went thru a version of the events in what led up to the 5 minute test at the end. I have that downloaded (too slow of DSL to watch it while loading). It’s on YouTube now. That makes about 10 different conversations with Zimmerman about that night’s events with police officials. Not even including all of his TV appearances…
@MataHarley: I don’t really know what this means:
I just read his testimony and thought it was significant.
@Ronald J. Ward:
This is not a stand your ground case. That law has not been cited because it does not apply.
another thing I remember, is the fact that GEORGE ZIMMERMAN HAD HELP A MATURE BLACK MAN,
who had been accused of something, HE WAS INNOCENT to clear his name,
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN even had to get the policeman to back up and review his error,
which made him not well like by this policeman,
someone even mentioned that they might use it to get back at him after the death
of TRAYVON.
and someone here mention that he had a injury on his face side of the ear
and told it was responsible for his partial lost of hearing,
so we can think that what is told from prosecutor GUEST on FOX NEWS,
SAYING HE CHANGE WORDING OR MINOR WORDS ON HIS REPEAT LINE COULD VERY WELL BE DUE TO HIS BAD INJURIES ON HIS HEAD SPECIALLY, OR EVEN A BLANK WHILE REPEATING A LINE.
he had said he was dizzy after it happened
what I’m trying to counter the negatives being told
as oppose to positives WHICH was told of him.
I suggest you go review the Andrew Branca posts at the blog Legal Insurrection…including the videos of the actual testimony…all of you are missing key pieces of the facts and making incorrect assumptions based on missing or misunderstood “factoids” that you’re picking up from too far away (the regular press?).
Kalashnicat
do you mean what we tend to believe that OBAMA want to make an example
FOR FUTURE GUN OWNERS TO NOT stand their ground save their lives,
THE PROSECUTOR IS LEADING THE CASE TO THAT POINT,
and make it so difficult and a prison stage of 15 years and 30 for killing minor,
to serve his agenda to ban weapons?, if he is found guilty it will mean that he had no chance
because of the obama intent set up,
bye
Mata…good points. I would point out that according to Z’s taped walk through and the other evidence introduced thus far…Z noticed T. Martin because he was walking between houses and then stood in the rain with his hood up near a house with open door and window. Residents of such complexes are encouraged to report suspcious behavior and/or persons by police/sheriffs dept. I would point out as well, that this event occurred after a series/string of robberies and breakins of units in the complex.
Z “passed” Martin, and parked his truck at the clubhouse to call the police non-emergency line to report a suspicious person or activity. T “passed” Z’s parked truck looking at him and kept going turning west around the corner and then took off running. He reported this to the police still on the line. Z claimed in reenactment that the police asked him which way he ran…and he said he didn’t know. And that they then asked him to move to a better position so he could see. But, the transcript of the call doesn’t back that up. Those were his own thoughts/memory/beliefs.
After Z says…he’s running. You hear Z get out of his car and start running. As the dispatcher was asking for a direction or address…he notices this and says…”are you following him”? And z says…yes. And he says…we don’t need you to do that. Z says ok…but continues to run, distracted (as if looking around) then slows to a walk.
According to Z statements…T was gone at that point, so.he continued on down the walkway to try and find an address/location or reference point to try and discern which way he went. The path was between houses and no street numbers were visible. He walked to the end of the path to the following street…still didnt’ see anybody and this is when he ended the call with police. He turned to come back to go to his truck.which is when he was confronted by T Martin who came up from behind him and asked if he had a problem, which led to an immediate physical altercation, some of which was witnessed at various points by eye witnesses.
Although nobody saw the very first initial contact, early on…T was on top of Z and getting the better of him. All the evidence points to this as well. It wasn’t until after T was shot that Z was on top of him.
As far as the screams for help that happened through the fight up and till the gun shot…usually…that would be by the person on the bottom getting their ass kicked..no? T did not have injuries in the same way….which defies the notion that he at some point was being bested by Z or that Z attacked him at some point and put him in enough bodily danger/fear of being beat up that he yelled for help. And we’ve already established that at that point in the fight…eye witnesses have stated T Martin was on top of Z…not the other way around.
The only scenario I can think of where T would have been the one to have screamed for help, while being on top of Z…would be if Z went for his gun…T grabbed it and the ensuring struggle was trying to keep him from using it…yelling…”help”…help..etc. While this remains a possibility…nothing in the evidence supports this …certainly not eye witness accounts which depict T Martin doing a ground and pound on Z.
I don’t buy into the racial motivations for this shooting. And I dont’ think the fact that Z tried to see which way T Martin ran after he bolted out of sight…would constitute “following” him for the purpose of confronting and murdering him (ie., necessary for a 2nd degree murder charge). I think it’s unclear who threw the first punch…but how ever that happened…Z quickly ended up on his back and T was getting the best of him. I think it was Z at that point who was yelling for help for a few mins before finally able to get his gun out and shoot T.
IF Z followed him to confront him..and then threw the first punch…he’s guilty of manslaughter. The 2nd degree murder involves malice with intent to do harm..and I just dont’ see that here in any of the evidence. …even if he “did” express his frustration about robbers (ie, them) preying on his neighborhood always getting away. The police dept is backing him up 100% on these points. That he wasn’t angry. That he wasn’t manic. Or jacked up. Or going on about how he killed that M’fer. He didn’t even realize Martin was dead. And the detectives attempt to trick him to change his statement by suggesting the entire altercation was taped…Z says…”thank God!!”.
Last I saw on CNN..they were trying to redefine Cracker” as not a racial term like “the N word” is. Sure. IT’s a term of endearment. But then…on the otherhand…that girl’s testimony was such a mess…I dont’ think you can really put to much weight on “any” of it.
If CNN (and others) want a good news story…maybe they should go back and cover their own coverage early on of this event…which put the context of Zimmerman being “white” and/or “jew” and T being a young black kid just minding his own business eating skittles when he got shot by an overzealous cop wannabe. Lets see how accurate “that” was compared to what we know. How they continually misquoted and took out of context statements and transcripts to fuel this as nothing more than a cold blooded racial killing. THAT, would be a news story.
There’s certainly lots of questions after Good’s observations early on in the scuffle, and there are no living witnesses to clarify it, save for Zimmerman himself. Because it’s going to come down as to whether Zimmerman is credible in the jury’s eyes overall, when put into context with all of the other puzzle pieces, no witnesses may work very well for reasonable doubt in Zimmerman’s behalf. That is certainly what the defense is focusing on. Zimmerman’s story is consistent with repetition, but it’s not consistent with evidence. (including the fact there are no fingerprints of Martin on the gun…) As Serino said, when asked if there was evidence that Zimmerman was following Martin, he answered yes… because of where the body was found.
But while we’re imagining possible scenarios with Martin on top, the gun and screams, if Zimmerman grabbed both of Martin’s shirts in a grip with his left hand while reaching for his gun with his right, and Martin pulling away, this would explain two things.
1: The alignment of the holes between both inner and outer shirts that did not align with the body’s entrance wound (the weight of the can of Arizona drink would only lower the outer shirt, not the inner, so the holes shouldn’t line up as they did unless both shirts were experiencing the same weight or pull away from the body), and
2: Zimmerman’s own explanation in his CVSA interview account, where he said he pulled out his gun, aimed, mentioned missing his hand which was in the way (start watching/listening about 42:55 in to the CVSA interview where the investigator asks how he came to fire upon Martin from his position underneath him. Also pay close attention to what he does with his left hand in his demonstration)
As to Zimmerman screaming, he said he was getting his head pounded, had his nose and mouth covered, etc. Add that the PA said that if there as nose bleeding while laying on his back, he would be swallowing the blood. My instinctive reaction is where was he finding the time to scream – in between swallowing his nose blood, having his mouth and nose covered (tho there’s no blood trace on Martin’s hands), and getting his head pounded? Also the screams stopped virtually the instant of the gunshot. Was Zimmerman steadily screaming for help while reaching for his gun, aiming to miss his hand and shooting, stopping only when he discharged the gun? That’s a lot of multitasking going on while reaching for a firearm that was almost beneath your body, and at an odd angle.
Again, there far more questions than answers. Personally I don’t think anyone will ever know, definitively, the circumstances of those screams, or who was the source.
I said before that I think the State over reached with an M2 charge (but figured they had enough to go that route). But since then, many prosecutors say the max charge is a common occurrence, allowing the jury to bargain down to a lesser charge. Negligent homicide was the charge that Serino wanted originally. Could be strategy.
I agree that I don’t think Zimmerman is a racist, or that this is about race. I just think his zeal and adrenaline for catching bad guys in the ‘hood put him in a bad (and likely unexpected) situation, where he made another bad decision not to diffuse it. I also don’t think “profiling” is “code” for racial profiling, as suggested by TV pundits, gleefully hoping for more civilian discontent to fill their useless hours on the air. Law enforcement profiles all the time.. as they should. Would be insane if they didn’t narrow the field.
I have no problem with Zimmerman calling NEN INRE Martin. And while I think getting out of his car was bad judgment, I don’t even have a problem with that. What I do have a problem with is his decision to not to return to wait for the police at his car or a designated place, topped with his failure to ID himself and purpose to a kid who knew he was being followed, reassuring him that he meant no ill will. That would have been the responsible thing to do. But it doesn’t help Zimmerman’s case that, even after the death and charges, he insists he would do nothing differently.
As for the trial, both State and defense are busy entering in various evidence in the way of statements, videos, etc… rather like handing the jury a box of puzzle pieces, unassembled, and missing a large number of those pieces. In the final summaries, both sides will try to tie together all those pieces for the jury. But in the end, it will be the jury who puts the pieces together officially. In deliberations, they can review all the videos and evidence amongst themselves for a verdict. It’s most likely that they will remember less what the lawyers said over these weeks, and will heavily depend upon the statements, videos, forensics etc for their judgement. I have no clue which way it will go. Wouldn’t even attempt to wager a guess.
Doesn’t matter to me, as I’m fine with whatever a jury decides. That’s the way our government is set up. The system will have run it’s course, which is what I’ve always felt should happen. If this happened to my kid, I sure would want a thorough investigation and trial.
Perhaps you misconstrue where my amusement emanates, Wm. T. The “you got me” is such a cheesy, old movie western portrayal of people’s reactions after a shot. Or, another example, similar to the cops/robbers or cowboys/Indians games we used to play as children (when it wasn’t so unPC). Of course we don’t know what (if anything) was said at any point in time since there is only Zimmerman. Kind of like that “homey” statement Zimmerman used at the original greeting seems to have gone by the wayside in his various statements and interviews as well. But this “you got me” is a hard one to buy into… young black youth, clutching his wound saying “you got me”, when his lungs are deflating/collapsing and filling with blood. Sounds like a B Hollywood movie from the 50s.
An off into LaLa land observation there, Wm. T. There’s lots of promises some want to make about riots in the event of acquittal. Is this some sort of secret wish many have? Granted, there some people that are so emotionally invested in this case 24/7 that all sorts of bizarre tweets and comments are made, but I’m not one who believes all the BS posturing will come to fruition. I think the majority of the nation, like me, believes Zimmerman deserves his day in court and a competent defense. I expect that the majority of the nation, also like me, will accept the jury’s decision with nary a thought. I guess only time will tell. But you won’t find me amongst the doom and gloom race riot types.
@Ronald J. Ward:
The rage was Trayvon Martin’s. You missed the point of Skook’s story. Trayvon Martin should not have reacted with rage.
@MataHarley:
Yeah, hilarious. And you had just admonished someone for claiming to know the unknowable.
Well, I think we can all agree that Zimmerman should be found guilty of second degree murder to avoid riots and for the jury’s safety.
we should try to define the word “RACIST”
we would come in with surprising comments, there’s one? a 3 year old white staring at
a 3 year old black other baby,
or staring at a other color person as an adult for just a minute,
or talking about young criminal who happened to be black or white and stating the color,
is that racist or just to identify the person,
it’s all in the mind who receive the sentence,
THAT MEDICAL PROSECUTOR WAS A NUT CASE, SHE IS THE LESS QUALIFIED OF ALL THE WITNESS,
OR SHE WORK FOR THAT PROSECUTOR CORY, AND DIMINISH ON PURPOSE THE HEAD INJURIES,
OF ZIMMERMAN.
WHAT A MESS
W M T SHERMAN
YES ,
ONE WAS ASKING ONE LAWYER BESIDE THE MOTHER AND FATHER OF TRAYVON,
IF HE AND THEY WOULD ACCEPT THE RESULT, and what would they do
the man pause and said it depend on it,
yes if he is free, there will be an escalation ,of what GEORGE HAS BEEN GONE THROUGH
SINCE THE BEGINNING, NON STOP. COMING FROM HIS LAWYER
@MataHarley:
I understood that. It is an argument with no weight. Hey, let’s all try to remember what we said the last time we were fatally shot. Something memorable no doubt.
Riots, fatal ones, have been triggered by other single incidents that were much less hyped and manipluated than this. In addition we have so far some individual incidents of blameless individals stomped in public as a sort of community undertaking, to cries of “Trayvon.” You also, I would guess, reject out of hand the possibility that riots will be allowed to proceed if our new ruling class finds it useful for them to proceed. Mere crazy talk. The Occupy toilet encampments began when Democrats found them useful, and ended when the usefulness was over. It was easy – Democratic mayors did not enforce their cities’ own laws for a couple of months..
As far as a secret wish – it is an open fear. Nothing will be better if this occurs – nothing. I request that you retract that insinuation.
Forgot this from you, Wm T
Zimmerman has added drama to his accounts from the start.. the menancing “circling” that didn’t happen (impossible within the NEN call, not to mention that would be something he’d mention to the dispatcher), the colorful “homey” language, the “you’re gonna die tonight” etal. Letting that stuff go as an unproven possibility, we come to the “you got me”. Problem with that is the fatal gunshot which put a hole not only in the right ventricle of the heart, but the right lower lobe of the lungs. When the lungs have a hole puncture, the air escapes and the pressure collapses the lung quickly. Per the medical examiner’s report, both lungs were collapsed.
It’s an injury that likely had Martin gasping for air, unable to breath let alone recite cheesy western movie lines in his last moments. Compounded by a 200lb plus man straddling him (as both Zim and witness Selma testified) Again, this makes it difficult for Zimmerman who, in the CVSA account version, says that Martin was cursing him when Zim was pinning him down after the shot, with his arms out (which also never happened because Selma was a witness to those moments). That isn’t a medical likelihood.
When this case first became public, I sensed a custom-designed crisis geared toward the incitement of racial conflict. My opinion was strengthened by 1) the choice of six female jurors (five white, one hispanic, no black), and 2) broadcasting the trial nationwide.
One thing to consider – and communicate. Much like our president, George Zimmerman comes from what his family describes as “multiracial” roots. His father is a white American of German descent and his mother is Peruvian with some black ancestry through her Afro-Peruvian maternal grandfather. Zimmerman’s voter registration record lists him as Hispanic.
Had Mr. Martin been white, Hispanic or Asian, this trial would have never occurred. Had Mr. Zimmerman described himself as Afro-Peruvian in race, this trial would have never occurred.
Yes, the death of Trayvon is a tragedy. But as the trial unfolds, evidence shows the case was publicized to sharpen racial lines rather than to achieve justice. America is better than this.
garland
yes
I AGREE,IT WAS DELAYED AND USED TO THE MAX, FOR AN AGENDA,
GUN BAN AGENDA I THINK. AND RACE CARD.
BYE
TO THE JURY
YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE POWER OF DECISION OF INCARCERATION FOR 30 YEARS,
OR TO GIVE BACK THE FREEDOM LOST ON AN INNOCENT MAN,
PLEASE GIVE HIM BACK HIS FREEDOM,
I believe the difference between you and I is that you believe the nation is fixated on a single jury trial down in Sanford for a killing that doesn’t necessarily stand out. I don’t. It’s a local issue. Some are heavily invested with obsession. Others have a more casual interest, or none at all. Ergo, I don’t place Zimmerman and that issue on the level of identification of the OWS and the nation’s fiscal debates. So please don’t leap to such absurd conclusions that I discount possible riots of any kind, merely because I’m not of the mindset riots will happen because of this local trial.
I’ll also note that on conservative blogs everywhere, including here at FA, you read regular “call to arms” for civil insurrection. I don’t buy into that either, as I believe the majority of Americans would rather conduct their revolution at the ballot box.
That “insulting insinuation” was neither an insinuation, nor was it directed at you personally, Wm. T. What it was, was a question as to why people continue to insist this is what will happen. To remind you what I said, verbatim, was:
’tis hard to apologize for something I didn’t do…. i.e. cast this aspersion at you, personally. But would it make you feel better to know that when I wrote that, I did not have you in mind, but instead the more radical Treepers and Infowars crowd? Not to mention the media, who would delight in fodder.
The commentary is thought provoking, but I have my doubts whether a typical jury can absorb the minutia and analyze the facts.
However, the story revolves around the cost of losing civility in our culture. When Rachael delivered her less than stellar testimony, our news outlets regaled us with the facts that White culture doesn’t understand the Hip Hop culture of Rachael and presumably Trayvon as well; yet, one of the reasons I shop a particular grocery is because I enjoy seeing a Black man who works there. We exchange pleasantries and I enjoy seeing him.
Maybe he knows hundreds of people like me and makes them all feel better, I can’t know for sure, but I know he is civil and brightens people’s lives with his attitude. In fact, the Blacks of Southern Pines, North Carolina are the most genteel friendly people, I have ever known. They missed out on this “Do you have a problem, homie?” attitude.
George’s attitude was just as bad or worse, and the real reason a tragedy was written in the clouds of our coffee becomes easier to see: our lack of civility precipitated this tragedy, and until we are willing to admit the cause and stop celebrating rude classless behavior in media, entertainment, and sports, it is bound to be repeated many times.
Both defense and prosecution must agree on the juror selection. No one sits on a jury without approval of both teams. If this is construed as “geared towards the incitement of racial conflict”, then the defense team would be equally guilty of that.
INRE the broadcasting, Florida’s Sunshine Law allows for all trials to be publicly broadcast… which is why the nation had the opportunity to watch the Casey Anthony trial if they chose. This isn’t confined to, or done just for, Zimmerman. However the choice of national broadcast stations to carry the proceedings of any particular Florida trial is their own. So that potential incitement can be laid squarely on the shoulders of the media, who are responding to what they believe is sensational news of interest to the viewers.
Several stations carried the Anthony trial, if I remember rightly. To my knowledge, only CNN Headline News is carrying the Zimmerman trial close to it’s entirety (if you can live thru the commentary, “pause” and commercials). Possibly Court TV, which I don’t have. Otherwise, if you want to cut out the pundit lip service, like I do, you watch a live stream of the event from various outlets like local stations.
I’m not sure I agree totally with this. I think that both sides did a publicity number, pushing the racial factor to the max. It was reprehensible for both sides. However even if Martin were any race other than black, that doesn’t mean those parents wouldn’t also go to the press to highlight what they felt was a miscarriage of justice. I know that if the shooter of my son walked free, under these same circumstances, and the PD was dragging their butts, I’d be on them as well for a more in depth investigation and charges. And that includes taking it to the press, if I couldn’t get higher authorities to give them a swift kick in the rear end.
Unless a death is absolutely clear cut and beyond all question self defense, charges are leveled for varying degrees of murder or manslaughter (even vehicular homicide) in States other than Florida. Their SYG law was the cited original reason for pursing it with less intensity.
Going back to what you say is your original moral of the story, I won’t disagree that the lack of civility and social graces is precipitating a fast decline of American culture, Skook. Sometimes that may result in a death – i.e. Zimmerman/Martin. Other times it manifests in other ways, ostracizing people who otherwise may find some common ground. As far as I’m concerned, the general rudeness and disrespect people show from faceless keyboards on blogs, FB, Twitter etal can also be a reason why elections are lost, ideological peers experience internal divides, communication is abandoned, voters don’t cross political aisles, and Congress remains a do-nothing, gridlocked elected body. The cultural decline has many degrees of end games… none of them beneficial.
The world you pine for, Skook, sounds pleasant and idyllic. However I fear that attempting to reinstall some social civility in this Info Age is just another barn door closed after the horse bolted.
SKOOKUM
HI,
It’s not due to all people to have an easy tongueYOU HAVE IT,
BUT GEORGE ZIMMERMAN DON’T SEEM TO HAVE THE SKILL to talk his way out of a
dangerous situation, HE MIGHT BE A GOOD GUARD FOR PROTECTING THE COMMUNITY,
just the same, that’s what I SEE, HE DON’T SEEM TO BE A BIG TALKER,
yes it might have PLAY a part on TRAYVON TO ATTACK HIM, BUT GEORGE IS NOT RESPONSIBLE
FOR IT,
TRAYVON HAD NO THREAT FROM HIM, HE JUST DECIDE TO PUT HIS NEW SKILLS TO PRACTICE AS A YOUNG WOULD DO WITHOUT THINKING FURTHER OF THE CONSEQUENCES,
he would have kill him if the gun was not there.
bye
MataHARLEY
YES THAT MAKE A LOT OF SENSE,
it remind us that we type for ourselves, we just pour our thoughts into it,
thinking we have a solution, and when we are finish, we close the laptop
happy to have solve the problem, without moving from our chair,
and we forget the time, we don’t think of getting up,
we have become the robot of the CYBER SPACE, AND THE REST IS NON IMPORTANT ANYMORE,
WE ARE THE NEW PEOPLE WORKING ON FINDING SOLUTIONS TOGETHER,
BUT DID ANYONE READ OUR COMMENT? OOPS NOT SURE OF IT,
THAN WE DID TYPE FOR ONLY OURSELVES GRATIFICATION,
and when we come back, we start all over again to enlighten the only reader which is us,
bye
@Skookum: @MataHarley:
Re. your thought-provoking comments on civility. I agree that simple politeness and civility can have a salubrious impact on daily life. I travel frequently on buses and subways and the attitudes of your fellow travelers can change your day in measurable ways. Seeing a teenager politely give up his seat for an elderly person can even renew your faith that civility isn’t necessarily on death’s door.
I think I part ways with many of the commenters on this thread, and perhaps the original post, when it comes to teasing out which party owns the lion’s share of the responsibility for civility in an encounter, or whose demeanor actually impacts the outcome more. In my mind, the person in the position of power is the person whose attitude more often than not dictates which direction an encounter will go. Think about it in your own life. If you’re pulled over my a traffic cop and he approaches you politely and respectfully, your natural inclination is to want to return the respect, to be helpful and compliant, Likewise, when treated with heightened suspicion or rudeness, the natural inclination is to be defensive and guarded, to want to ‘win’ the encounter in some way. Regardless, your attitude in the lesser position may or may not have an impact on the outcome, as it’s still entirely up to the person in power; you’re merely hoping to tip the scales.
Now think about how there can be multipliers to this effect in the case of a TM, who is traveling through an unfamiliar neighborhood, alone, and at night; who is likely acutely aware of his own demographic’s pull on suspicion in the minds of some; and who may be on edge, on a permanent hair-trigger, due to past encounters and accusations when it comes to be being questioned about “what he’s up to”, or “what he’s doing here”. In almost all encounters between unequal forces, the party in the position of power dictates the time, manner and place of an engagement, and in this example it’s acknowledged by both parties who is in the position of power the moment TM runs away, attempting to avoid the encounter. At this point, GZ holds all the cards (he even has a card TM is unaware of, a loaded gun), and the responsibility to handle them wisely and dictate the outcome is now entirely on his shoulders. Could politeness from TM have saved his life? Perhaps, but we can’t say that for certain, because it’s still up to GZ. This has always been my point with this case. GZ had the power. Tactically speaking, he had the weather gauge and all the options that come with that.
the more I read the more I think that GEORGE ZIMMERMAN HAVE SAVED ANOTHER BREAKIN,
and made TRAYVON MAD
I once pulled into a mans driveway to find a jobsite I was going to – more like to turn around and see if what I passed was it.
The man bursted from his house, quite irate and yelling about using his driveway. He said this was not the first time I had been there and he had told everyone before not to use his driveway as a turnaround. I wasn’t sure what he meant by ‘everyone’ – and I had never been there before. He pointed out his freshly sealcoated (but ready to drive on at a few days old) driveway and rambled on about how it put wear and tear on it.
I simply looked at it and agreed, and told him I had never been there before; today was my first day on that jobsite. (I didnt say a sign would have stopped me from doing that, and that if it had been that big of a problem that hanging one up would have been prudent) I smiled and held my hand out the window for a handshake as I introduced myself – full name – and even told him who I worked for. I apologized and told him I typically avoid doing things such as that, but the next intersection up was a T with a hill on each side and was very dangerous to turn around in.
He quickly changed his attitude and after a brief pause asked a couple questions about what we were doing – we were building a fire dept for him and his neighbors. I was doing the testing and inspections to make sure everything was built to code and as planned.
FOX NEWS is mistaking,
ZIMMERMAN SAID HE REACH FOR MY GUN AND HE SHOW THAT HE LOCK HIS HAND WITH HIS ARM AND REMOVED HIS GUN, AND SHOT HIM AS HE WAS EXAUSTED FROM THE BASHING AND FACE BEATING HE THOUGHT HE WOULD LOSE CONSCIENCE AND HE SHOT TRAYVON.
THE WORD IS NOT GOT HIS GUN, OR TOUCH HIS GUN, BUT ” REACH FOR HIS GUN,”
HE DID NOT LIE.fox got it wrong,
FOX NEWS, CHECK IT UP, THIS IS A MATTER IMPORTANT TO CORRECT FOR THE PUBLIC TO KNOW,
IT’S ABOUT LIFE IN PRISON OR FREEDOM OF AN INNOCENT MAN,
FOX AGAIN
they brought up the errors of ZIMMERMAN LIKE LIES,
BUT THAT IS NOT A LIE, IT IS DUE TO HIS HEAD BASHING, WHICH LEFT TRAUMA
AND MADE HIM FORGET DETAILS WHICH HE KNEW BEFORE THE TRAUMA,
THIS IS INCREDIBLE FOR THEM TO NOT FIGURE THOSE FACT,
ARE THEY SOLD OR DUMB,
FOX YOU ARE MESSING UP. BIG TIME
AND people forget that ZIMMERMAN DID NOT WEIGHT 200 POUND AT THE TIME OF THE ATTACK,
HE HAS GAIN SINCE THE LONG PRISON TERM AND SEQUESTRATION HOME ADDED TO THE STRESS, TAKE OF 150 POUND
DON’T FORGET IT
Bees, Zimmerman’s physician’s assistant testified that the day after the killing, George weighed 204 lbs, documented by the usual taking of vitals prior to the examination. He is, per O’Mara, over 300 lbs today (stating he has gained approx 120 lbs). Martin’s weight was 158 lbs…. a weight differential of 46 lbs that night.
MataHARLEY
HI,
THAT WOULD MEAN THAT IT’S OF NO USE BETWEEN ONE YOUNG WHO IS OFTEN TRAINING COMBATING ANOTHER THE MARTIAL TRAINING WHICH HE USED TO LOCK ZIMMERMAN ON THE GROUND WITH ONE LEG RESTING ON HIS STOMACH,
THE SHAPE AGAINST THE WEIGHT HAS WON.
EXCEPT HE DIDN’T KNOW OF THE GUNOWNER TO DEFEND HIMSELF IN EXTREMIST,
BYE
Bees, the only one documented to have mixed martial arts training was Zimmerman. Again his physician’s assistant testified to this fact per their records. He was taking three MMA classes a week for approx a year and a half prior to the killing. ooops….
Mata Harley
I took that on his blogit.
and someone mentioned it,
I’m not surprise they did not reveal it and documented it
they aim at putting him in prison for 30 years to avenge the blacks
Bees, there is a panel of six women who will decide Zimmerman’s fate after listening to both sides present, and summarize their evidence. They are safely ensconced in a sequestration bubble, away from the news, blogger and twitter pundits’ background noise. Neither the obsessed Zimmerman or Martin diehards have a say in Zimmerman’s fate. This is the way our system works, and was designed to work.
MataHarley
yes, you have a solid last point,
so we are back on typing for our own gratification, is in it,
bye
EVEN IF THE MOTHER SAY THE YELL FOR HELP IS FROM HER SON,
WHY WOULD TRAYVON YELL FOR HELP? HE IS ON TOP BEATING GEORGE ZIMMERMAN,
WHO IS SURELY MORE LIKELY TO YELL FOR HELP.
EVEN
I still can’t get over the “White” Hispanic description…there is serious dysfunction in this country and especially our MSM….and let’s not forget our race pimps…Al, Jessie and all the rest…such ignorance…
The Left would not have a “program” for their “party” without their perpetual “victims”…
FAITH 7
HI, THE MOTHER of GEORGE ZIMMERMAN is black
so they cannot accuse ZIMMERMAN OF RACIST,
that is too bad that the judge did not decide on his innocence,
when ask by the lawyer,
she wanted to make it to linger some more by choosing to get
it by the jury, as if she did not want to take on herself the acquittal decision.
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN cried when his mother took the stand to say the yell for help is from my son.
so she eliminated the other mother on the case.
bye
I HOPE HE GOES FREE, AT LAST, NOW HE IS ALSO DEAD,
SINCE THE START OF IT.
NOW I Know what being in the limbo mean,
HE IS IN THERE WAITING TO BE FREE,