6 Nov

Obama To Win Second Term…

                                       

A few bright spots…one big dim spot. Hello Iran…goodbye Isreal. Hello taxes…goodbye freedom. Hello free stuff….goodbye responsibility.

Hello status-quo election with 8% unemployment.

Amazing.

Stanley Kurtz:

Barack Obama has won re-election. Will America now lose it’s distinct characteristics and be transformed into a Euro-style welfare state? Quite possibly, yet there remains one way out. At this point, only a sweeping new grassroots rebellion on the model of the Tea Party could change things. In the wake of a presidential election so discouraging for conservatives, a massive new Tea Party wave may not appear to be in the cards. Yet a resurgent second-term challenge to Obama from populist conservatives is far more likely than it seems.

That’s because the president’s first term hasn’t really happened yet, at least not in the conventional sense. Ordinarily, a president enacts various policies in his first term, the public test-drives the changes, and the president’s reelection campaign is a referendum on those new policies. The difference in Obama’s case is that in order to secure reelection, he has backloaded nearly all of his most transformative and controversial changes into a second term. Obama’s next term will actually put into effect healthcare reform, Dodd-Frank, and a host of other highly controversial policies already surging through the pipeline, yet still barely known to the public.

Obama’s transformative changes to date have been far more theory than practice. While reelection may bring sullen public acceptance when Obama’s most controversial policies actually take effect, the reverse is equally possible. Once people actually begin to experience de facto healthcare rationing, for example, they might get even angrier than they were in 2009-2010 when rationing was only a prospect. The same principle applies to a host of other issues (cap-and-trade via regulation, financial regulations, comprehensive immigration reform, national school curriculum, urban-suburban policy). And this time the public could be angered not only by the policies, but by growing recognition that actual enactment of Obama’s agenda was delayed for political purposes.

The fact that Obama has only very narrowly secured reelection–unusual, since reelected presidents normally expand their initial electoral margins–might seem to contradict this high-conflict scenario. You can certainly argue that a barely-reelected president would be smart to pull in his horns and govern from the middle. Yet that’s not who Barack Obama is, and it’s certainly not the premise upon which he ran his campaign. Obama took the intentionally risky path of alienating half the country with an in-your-face negative campaign because he believed that demographics now allow him to cobble together a leftist majority in support of transformative change. Whether that demographic vision is valid or not, Obama and his advisors believe that it is, and so will govern with relative disregard for opposition, however vocal.

The reelection of a Republican House of Representatives might also seem to have a moderating impact on the president, and to a limited degree it does. Yet Obama has cast aside conventional restraints on executive power with his pre-election orders on welfare reform and immigration. He will thus interpret reelection as a license to rule by executive order–well beyond the traditional limits on executive power. In the absence of intense populist pressure on a Congress facing another Tea Party electoral wave in 2014, it will be impossible to prevent Obama from abusing his executive authority.

Exit thought-

2004 Bush wins re-election, Senate R-55/D-45 with a GOP House
2012 Obama wins re-election, Senate D-55/R-45 with a GOP House

About Curt

Curt served in the Marine Corps for four years and has been a law enforcement officer in Los Angeles for the last 20 years.
This entry was posted in Barack Obama, Mitt Romney, Politics. Bookmark the permalink. Tuesday, November 6th, 2012 at 8:25 pm
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176 Responses to Obama To Win Second Term…

  1. @crosspatch: Allen West lost because he was redistricted into a very liberal area.

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  2. retire05 says: 102

    @Aqua:

    You didn’t say how old your wife was when she came to the U.S. or what her education level was at the time. But I would bet a dollar to a donut that she was not born of some central Mexico peon family in a village full of shanties and only a town well for water. You wife is not the kind of immigrant I’m talking about. But you have to admit, college graduates from nations south of our border are not jumping into the Rio Grande and trying to avoid the Border Patrol. I doubt your wife has much in common with the people who hang around the parking lots of Home Depot looking for some contractor who is willing to pay them under the table. Mexico most certainly has a caste system, and I doubt your wife is a member of the lowest class. Just guessing.

    Make no mistake; I love the Mexican culture (I’m a Texan, after all) and love Mexican food waaaay tooooo much.
    But there is such a thing as respect for the laws of other nations. I would not try to enter a foreign nation without their permission, why should I accept that others enter this nation illegally?

    And why would anyone of Mexican heritage discuss socialism with you? Do you discuss the Republican platform with them? And no, someone who is here illegally is not going to readily volunteer that information, not unless they want to run the risk that someone might turn them in.

    Do we benefit from illegal alien labor? You betcha. But hiring someone who is here illegally is just as much against the laws of the U.S. as is their coming here without U.S. permission. And does that benefit offset the down side? And yes, there is a major downside. Just ask the widow of Rodney Johnson, or the police officer in Austin that was run over by a drunk illegal last year. As the Mexican parents of some teen that died in the Arizona desert because a cayote left him there without water, food or clothing to protect him from the cold. Ask the women who have had their underwear hung on a rape tree. Ask the family members of those who have been killed by an illegal aline who was either driving drunk or actually murdered them. Ask the young girls in the barrios who have been raped by illegals. Do those costs offset the benefit of cheap labor?

    My solution is to enforce existing U.S. immigration laws. My solution also involves not allowing illegals to register to vote so that they can’t influence elections. Or do you object to that, as well?

    An independent study that might interest you:

    http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html#Illegals

    Let’s not forget that many times illegals prey on other illegals because they know that the victim will be afraid to report the crime.

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  3. retire05 says: 103

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim:

    any experiment which has failed a thousand times should be viewed with suspicion

    And we can be thankful that Thomas Edison did not subscribe to that philosophy or you would be reading by candle light or kerosene oil lamps.

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  4. Aqua says: 104

    @retire05:
    Good conversation Retire05

    You didn’t say how old your wife was when she came to the U.S. or what her education level was at the time.

    She was 16 and her father forced her to complete her education in the States. She is from a border town, but her family is originally from Guadalajara.

    But there is such a thing as respect for the laws of other nations. I would not try to enter a foreign nation without their permission, why should I accept that others enter this nation illegally?

    I would; if the roles were reversed. There is absolutely no way I could watch my family try to survive in poverty if all I had to do was cross a border into a better world. I would do everything, and I mean everything in my power to get them to a better life, even if doing so was illegal.

    And why would anyone of Mexican heritage discuss socialism with you? Do you discuss the Republican platform with them?

    I do, politics is a great hobby of mine, as well as history. I love the history of our country, and especially Texas. It happens to be my favorite State. I will I could live there. I also love the history of Mexico. I find myself constantly defending the GOP to my Hispanic friends. Although I have one friend from the Dominican Republic that may be more conservative than I am. But he dislikes the immigration stances of the GOP as much as I do. All of my Hispanic friends are more comfortable with the GOP stances than the Dems. But they feel that they are being vilified by republicans. I can’t tell you how many times my wife has been referred to as an illegal. One guy started yelling at her in a grocery store parking lot saying illegals shouldn’t be allowed to drive better cars than Americans. He was pretty shocked when he showed up in her office to get food stamps.

    And yes, there is a major downside. Just ask the widow of Rodney Johnson, or the police officer in Austin that was run over by a drunk illegal last year.

    I’ll address this as well as the study you provided. I’ll preface my response by saying I’m an engineer by trade. I deal with very complex problems all the time. If you look at the overall problem, you become overwhelmed very quickly. The only way I know how to deal with them is to take it a piece at a time. Our current process is not working. I don’t have all the answers for a new process, but I believe a guest worker program is part of it. Documenting the people that are already here is part of it. How better to track criminal activity. As it stands right now, a criminal release on bail can head back to Mexico, (or wherever) get new papers with a new identity and come right back and commit more crimes. Also, documenting those already here takes away the left’s arguments for the E-Verify system. No more undocumented workers, those busted for criminal activity are deported. Coming back in with fake papers will not longer work, your fingerprints are in the system. Sure, they can try to stay as undocumented, but it will be very difficult for them.
    As I said, I don’t have all the answers, but I think this could be a reasonable solution.

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  5. as tolerant as a NATION want to be,
    the time has come for the PEOPLE to tighten rank and focus on who they are,
    that is ONE WORD “AMERICAN” and start thinking of their own which are
    being left behind without any hope for recovery, they are given little crumbs to survive
    they are shun out of the market place as if they have a plague to give to other,
    they see immigrant take their jobs, they see illegals being welcome with open arms,
    they see foreigners being given chances to live in AMERICA once they finish their university year.
    and they have no VOICE IN THEIR AMERICA TO EXPOSE THEIR FRUSTRATION OVER INJUSTICE TARGETING THEM, THEIR NUMBER WAS GIVEN LAST FEW MONTHS AT 88.8 MILLIONS
    CHECK IT UP, THEY ARE ” AMERICAN ” BRANDED FELONS,
    many only did minor mistakes deserving to work, they have done their time, they have paid for it, they now should be joining the society, and the residue of their actions should be erase from the search medias, GOOGLE AND OTHER, IT WAS FOUND IT STAY THERE EVEN AFTER MANY YEARS OF GOOD BEHAVIORS, THE BUSYNESS CAN CHECK FOR THAT DATA,
    THIS IS INJUSTICE AS BEST YOU CAN FIND,
    and before you show a compassionate eye to foreigners, all AMERICANS SHOULD FIX THAT PROBLEM
    and remember that priority start at home to care for your own before going abroad fix other’s problems
    this is imperative for this AMERICA TO MAKE IT THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE TO SERIOUSLY WITH
    NOT WORDS BUT REAL ACTIONS,
    THEN YOU CAN SEE IF YOU HAVE A NEED TO EMPLOYE FOREIGNERS, ONCE THE FELONS HAVE FOUND JOBS FOR THE CARE OF THEIR FAMILY,
    THEY ARE PROUD AMERICANS, FOR GOD SAKE,
    they would be the first to save your life if the need be occur,

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  6. Richard Wheeler says: 106

    Tom A belated 2 thumbs up to your 51 and 60. Concur on excellent analysis of why Romney lost.

    Aqua #104 OUTSTANDING Hope my appreciation of your posts doesn’t hurt your Conservative cred. here at F.A. lol

    Anticsrocks Seems you’re feeling better. Back to you’re feisty self.

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  7. Hard Right says: 107

    Here is why we lost

    1) Turn out
    obama and co. had a numbers crunching crew and campaign machine second to none.
    http://swampland.time.com/2012/11/07/inside-the-secret-world-of-quants-and-data-crunchers-who-helped-obama-win/

    2) Corrupt media
    The media almost openly campaigned for obama. They spun damaging incidents or outright refused to report on them as they would had it been a Republican on the receiving end.
    On top of that, decades of screaming about how the GOP is racist, anti-woman, and only out to protect the rich have finally been bought into by enough voters to make a difference.

    3) Demographic shift
    This is the most critical of all. We are now outnumbered by those who want “free stuff” and a government nanny. I am hearing some talk of changing our views on illegal immigration to draw in more hispanic voters. Too bad some data I just saw shows that they tend be liberal in general and that immigration isn’t as big an issue for them as some thought.
    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/332916/why-hispanics-dont-vote-republicans-heather-mac-donald

    Whether the upcoming economic crash brought about by the left’s insane policies will cause some people to change their minds remains to be seen.
    Even the Tea Party didn’t want certain entitlements cut. America is now a center-center country moving to the left. Trying to pander to that won’t work in elections or fix what is broken in America.
    I wonder who useful idiots like tom and rich will blame when the economy hasn’t improved and even worsened over the next few years? (rhetorical question)

    Here is more on the way the dems got out the vote: short answer is lies and fear mongering
    http://minx.cc/?post=334778

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  8. retire05 says: 108

    @Aqua:

    Your father-in-law is/was a very wise man. To every Hispanic I know, (how I hate that term “Hispanic” as if it were a slur to mention the nation people come from; Mexico, Cuba, Brazil, Chile, etc when they don’t refer to themselves as Hispanics until they come to the U.S. I find it demeaning.) education hold the highest priority for them and their families.

    You say you would flee a country where you lived in proverty to make a better life for your family. I would not. If I truly loved my country, and my countrymen, flee or fight would never enter my mind. I would fight. I would fight to make my life, and the life of my compadres, honorable. The thing that holds Mexico down is the caste mindset, as I’m sure you know. The difference is between those who can track their heritage back to Spain, and those who are of mestizo heritage. And the corruption. Corruption is rampant in Mexico. I remember an interview with Carlos Slim. He was asked what his favorite charity was. Slim looked puzzled. “Charity?” he asked the interviewer. “Why would I give to a charity? It is my money. I earned it.” That is the Mexican attitude among the hiarchy. Vicente Fox was one of the most corrupt politicians Mexico ever had. Philipe Calderon is not much better. Mexicans do not live in a true socialist nation……yet. But unless the peon class remains, and demands changes, and are willing to struggle for those changes, they will never see equality there.

    But unlike the U.S., loyalty to a country is not taught in Mexico. Hell, over half the people who sneak across our border barely have the education of a 3rd grader. Some cannot even read or write, not even in Spanish. Same with all the nations south of our border. Alcoholism, distrust of the law, fear of the government, those are all traits they learn as children in their native lands and those traits do not end at the water’s edge. And once they are here, they are approached by corrupt unions that only want the money, and the power, that comes with adding illegals to their rosters. Tell me, Aqua, as a guest of another nation, would you ever protest march and demand rights that you could not even get in your native land? Would you hang the Mexican flag over the American flag in protest? Take a look at the people who support the Reconquista movements. It is quite strong in California. That is what comes from idiot gringa/gringo teachers indoctrinating pliable young minds into believing that the entire southwest was stolen from Mexico. Obviously, those teachers never really studied the history of the Southwest and know nothing of the Treaty of Hildalgo.

    As to your wife being referred to as an “illegal”, all I can say is you must know some really crass individuals.

    Now, as to our immigration laws: we need to end the “quota” system. I for one, would put a stop to the massive migration from Middle Eastern nations. It is has proven disasterous, and will only get worse. I also would end chain migration. We should base our acceptance of a person on their own merit, and not extend it to their far-removed family members. Just because your wife is a benefit to our nation, doesn’t mean her second cousin would be. Yes, I agree with a guest worker program, but only if applied for on the other side of the border, not once they are here. If you were brought here as a child, you should have to return to your native land, apply for entry, and be given piority over other applicants if you have no criminal record or any involvement with gangs such as MS-13, et al. The process for those people needs to be made more streamlined, and a hellofa lot quicker. Being able to enter the U.S. legally removes a great burden from people and gives them a sense of pride, knowing they are not only welcome, but wanted. That would be one start.

    Also, every illegal that is caught is fingerprinted. Both at the police station and then again by either the Border Patrol or ICE. “Catch and release” needs to end. We need to tell Mexico, and all nations south, that if their citizens are caught here illegally, even if not involved in any other crime other than entering illegally, they will be barred from entering the U.S. for at least five years. If caught again, one year jail time with jail time becoming more severe with each violation.

    But for decades Mexico has known that we are soft on the law. And Mexico is playing the U.S. like a cheap fiddle. Philipe Calderon was asked what is done with illegals in Mexico. “We them deport” he said. He wasn’t taking about Americans who sneak into Mexico. You see, by sending their peon class to the U.S., even going so far as to print up pamphlets in Spanish, as Vicente Fox did, to tell them what to carry across the border and how to avoid the Border Patrol, makes us look like idiots for not demanding better from the Mexico government. Advising Mexican nationals to find a consulate here in the U.S. so they can be taught how to access social services and welfare, is not the action of a “friendly” neighbor. To refuse to extradite a murdering cop killer because we have the death penalty, is not the action of a “friendly” neighbor. To refuse to allow American citizens, jailed in Mexico, to have access to American consulates, as required by international law, is the not action of a “friendly” neighbor. But Mexico knows that if they encourage their peon class to migrate to the U.S., even illegally, then Mexico is off the hook for taking care of its own people as those mestizos will only wind up sending their money back to Mexico to the benefit of the Mexican economy.

    Have you ever read the Mexican Constitution? It is quite enlightening. While Mexico smears us, and thinks that once its citizens have entered here illegally, according to Philipe Calderon, not only should they be allowed to stay (taking Mexico off the hook for them and their education and welfare) but also be allowed to vote. Yet, Mexican voter laws are really, REALLY, rigid. Illegals from other nations caught in Mexico are raped, robbed and brutalize, all before they are thrown into some dingy jail where the abuse starts all over again.

    Now, to one of my favorite subjects; Texas. Yes, we are a grand and glorious state, and probably one of the last bastions of true American ideals of freedom. Our cuture is mixed and we are taught to celebrate them all, from German, to Irish to Mexican. From the influence of the Germans in Fredericksburg, eeking out a living off hard scrabble land, to the painted churchs of the Czechs and German, to the stark beauty of Palo Duro, to the beaches of South Padre Island. The Mexican Market in San Antonio is one of my favorite fun places to visit. The Alamo gives one pride in the fight, not fleeing, tradition that is Texas. We do really cling to our God and our guns I just picked up a new book at my local library that I intend to start today; The Blood of Heroes by James Donovan. I will let you know what I think about it. I’m not much into revisionist history so we will see how far I get into it.

    Here is an interesting [hopefully] little tidbit for you; last spring I was quite ill and had to basically do nothing for about six weeks (except play on the computer). I joined Ancestry.com and learned that a distant uncle was one of the Old 300 in Stephen F. Austin’s settlements. His daughter (my distant cousin) designed the original Texas flag. Her last name was Dodson and it is called the Dodson Flag.

    Now, back to the original topic: I don’t have all the answers. But I do know that we cannot continue on the road we are on. I know that being a good neighbor requires more than lip service, which is basically what Mexico, and nations to the south, have been giving us for decades. I know that one has to have respect for the laws of the land, be they here, or in Mexico, and that without that, we cannot build a strong relationship between nations or people.

    Sorry for the length of this post.

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  9. Aqua says: 109

    @retire05:

    Your father-in-law is/was a very wise man.

    Thank you, and yes he is; and wealthy. But he doesn’t let anyone know. It’s not exactly a good idea in Mexico.

    You say you would flee a country where you lived in proverty to make a better life for your family. I would not. If I truly loved my country, and my countrymen, flee or fight would never enter my mind. I would fight.

    I can say the same thing because I live in the US. But I have spent a lot of time in Mexico, it’s just not the same. They don’t have the same spirit of “give me liberty or give me death.” And given the prospects of fighting a rather formidable war or peacefully moving to greener pastures, I can understand and sympathize with the greener pastures decision.

    Obviously, those teachers never really studied the history of the Southwest and know nothing of the Treaty of Hildalgo.

    I don’t like the protests you talk about any more than you do. My wife calls them idiots as well. Most of them are second or subsequent generation Chicanos. They have no idea the hardships of life in Mexico and think giving the lands back will be like party time in Tijuana. But our own people are no better educated. I went to Utah once on a project and brought a young technician along to assist. We were driving to the job site from the hotel and he said, “there sure are a lot of Mexicans here.” I looked at him in disbelieve and told him Utah used to be part of Mexico. He had no idea.

    As to your wife being referred to as an “illegal”, all I can say is you must know some really crass individuals.

    Can’t say as I know a lot, but I have certainly met a lot.

    Now, as to our immigration laws: we need to end the “quota” system.

    A lot of what you say here are good ideas. I actually know some people that have stayed beyond their visas and have had to return to Mexico to finalize their residency paperwork. I think for the most part this is just unnecessary. It puts undue hardship on the families and can take over a year. A year? All the paperwork is done, they just have to meet the “port of entry” requirements. Yet it takes our immigration officials a year to move through this?
    As for the kids of parents that came here illegally. Where do we send them when they go back to Mexico and sit through the year-long expedited process? Many have no families they’ve met in Mexico and the families in Mexico are probably not jumping up and down knowing they have another mouth to feed. A Dream Act like bill would benefit us and them. I don’t like Harry Reid’s Dream Act. But the meat of the bill, which is allowing children that have been here their whole lives to go to college if the qualify, or join the military is win-win.

    Have you ever read the Mexican Constitution

    Oh yeah, they’re a bunch of hypocrites. Believe me, I hold no belief that the Mexican government is fair. It is probably one of the most corrupt institutions on the planet and they treat their people with utter disdain. But we are better than that, and it pays off a lot. A friend of mine escaped El Salvador. He is married to my niece’s (on my wife’s side) husband’s sister, (she is Mexican). Their son was class valedictorian and he has a full scholarship to college and is studying to be an engineer. That’s one for the good guys.

    Now, to one of my favorite subjects; Texas.

    Here is what I like best about Texas, they are Texans. Doesn’t matter what color, race, creed, religion, they’re Texans. I met the cutest Asian girl once in Fort Worth and she looked like this girl I knew from Thailand. I went up to the girl and asked if she or her family were from Thailand. In the sweetest Texas drawl you ever heard, she said, “No, I’m from Texas.” A friend of mine I’ve talked about before, a liberal ex-Marine, who happens to be Hispanic (I hate that term as well) will get plain nasty if you call him a Mexican. He is Texan, and his family has been Texan as far back as they can recall.

    Now, back to the original topic: I don’t have all the answers. But I do know that we cannot continue on the road we are on. I know that being a good neighbor requires more than lip service, which is basically what Mexico, and nations to the south, have been giving us for decades.

    I agree. I’m not saying anyone should abandon their principles just because Mittens lost the presidency. It was a long shot anyway. He came much closer than I thought and I actually came to like him a bit. But I think the GOP needs to discuss some of their social policies, especially immigration and abortion. The “Operation Wetback” and “Legitimate Rape” voices are few, but they are drowning the rest of us out. The media only hears them.

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  10. HardRight
    yes ,
    you pinpoint the whys perfectly, and some democratic heads are being targetted,
    the depart before, how about GEITNER, LEAVING, THE BANK
    now that he emptied it he want no part of what’s coming,, and the papers are being used
    FOR FOOD STAMPS.
    yes something big and bad is coming, they are running
    as far as they can.

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  11. Richard Wheeler
    TOM
    HOW DARE YOU, two working hand in hand to blame MITT ROMNEY,
    this is as low as you can be to bash the better man for losing over a complete failure
    you are part of the zombies new half of AMERICA WHO WHERE TAKEN IN BY SPEECH FULL OF LIES AND DEMONIZING A GOOD MAN, WHEN WE KNOW THEY NEVER WILL FIND THE BRAIN HE HAS TO HELP THE PEOPLE WHO STRUGGLE TO TRY TO FINDS JOBS WHICH ARE GOING TO CANADA AND OTHER COUNTRIES,NOW, BECAUSE OF OBAMA ENTITLEMENT AGENCIES RENDERING THEM MISERABLE, TELLING THEM THEY DON’T OWN THEIR BUSINESS THEY DIDN’T BUILT IT, WHAT A SLIP OF THE OBAMA’S TONGUE ALONG WITH INCITING THE PEOPLE TO VOTE FOR REVENGE,
    AND if MITT ROMNEY WOULD HAVE WON , THERE IS NO OBAMA WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN GUTSY ENOUGH TO STOP IT, AND MANY PEOPLE FROM HIS CROWD WOULD HAVE KILL
    RUNNING ON THE STREETS TO BREAK EVERYTHING STANDING IN THEIR WAY,
    THAT THE HALF OF VOTERS YOU BOTH BELONG TO, THE HALF OF AMERICA WHO ARE THE SHAME,
    and they are responsible for this result which is the worse enough to break the market and send away more companies,
    and the collapse economic coming, because the spending spree of OBAMA, WILL CONTINUE,
    YOU FOOLS

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  12. Hard Right says: 112

    @ilovebeeswarzone:

    Bees, it’s going to get ugly economically. It would be nice to think obama will move to the center, but he won’t. I am sure they will try to blame the GOP for any issues in budget negotiations, but the dems won’t get a do over this time. They will own the economy.

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  13. johngalt says: 113

    @Hard Right:

    3) Demographic shift

    Amongst Latinos, yes, Obama gained heavily. But only amongst the women. The men only voted at a 1% greater margin than they did in 2008. The latino women? 76% compared to 68% in 2008. Overall, latinos voted only 4% greater than they did in 2008.

    What about blacks? This, surprisingly, is where Obama lost voters. Overall, they voted 93% for Obama, vice 95% in 2008. And it was black women that kept that disparity from being larger, voting at a 1% increase this time around. Meanwhile, black men voted only 87% for Obama this time, while he got 95% of their vote in 2008.

    All the way around the demographics table, the GOP picked up voting percentages in all but a few, select categories. The GOP picked up 5% amongst the 18-29 age group, while Obama lost 6% of them, for example.

    Even amongst women, the GOP picked up votes, taking 44% this time, while taking 43% in 2008.

    And overall voting shows a 9.2% drop in Obama’s voting totals from 2008 to 2012. Meanwhile, Romney only took .8%(that’s POINT EIGHT) less votes than McCain did.

    Demographically, I’d say that the shift in voting overall wasn’t away from Romney and the GOP, but away from Obama and the Democrats.

    And consider the biggest battleground states, of OH, FL, and VA. The margin of victory by Obama in 2008 for those states was in the neighborhood of 650,000 votes. This time? Only 250,000 votes, with FL’s difference being only 50k this time while back in 2008 Obama won FL by 250,000. Quite a difference.

    The idea that Obama somehow has a mandate to move his agenda forward is BS.

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  14. Hankster58 says: 114

    @ Retire 05 # 103

    any experiment which has failed a thousand times should be viewed with suspicion

    And we can be thankful that Thomas Edison did not subscribe to that philosophy or you would be reading by candle light or kerosene oil lamps.

    >>> Your point here is SKEWED…. EACH attempt, by Edison, was a NEW EXPERIMENT!! If process ONE failed, he tried process TWO.. then THREE etc, till he got it RIGHT!! The Problem we have TODAY… the left keeps trying the SAME thing over and over… with the SAME failed results.. and IGNORING, what HAS WORKED in the past!! And, admittedly, some on the RIGHT as well….

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  15. Ron H. says: 115

    Anticrocks said:

    “@Ron H.: Once again, Ronnie is soooo tough behind the anonymous interwebz….”

    “ROFLMAO, you’re pathetic Ronnie. Lighten up, we’re all entitled to our opinions, even slugs like you”

    Ummm yeah I believe you are hiding behind the same “anonymous interwebz” sooooo I have a kettle that matches your pot. Oh and I guess Anticrocks is your real name then? Thought not.

    You called me a “slug”…that hurt my feelings. I cried in my Cheerios this morning. I mean I thought you and I were bestest friends. Oh well I guess I’ll have to go back to the real world and deal with real people instead on anonymous interwebz dickwads like yourself.

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  16. retire05 says: 116

    @Aqua:

    Here are some of the other things I think should be done to discourage illegal immigration:

    No welfare from any state or municipality. If you are here illegally, you are not entitled to the benefits of being a citizen or a legal immigrant. It should be against federal law for states, like California, to provide monitary welfare for any illegal.

    Social Security payments: as it stands now, if you are a legal alien with either a SS # or an ITN, you pay into the Social Security coffers. In the event that you have paid into the system the mandatory 40 quarters, but opt to return to your native land after that, all the money you have paid into the Social Security system should be returned to you. Treat it like the VAT in Ireland. You pay the tax up front, but at the airport there are kiosks where you present your sale receipts and your air line ticket, and your VAT is returned to you in cash. Currently, if you are a immigrant who pays into the Social Security fund and you return to your native land only to die, your spouse is entitled to SS payments although they may have never lived in the U.S.

    Identity fraud: in Houston, you can go to the Trader’s Village flea market and buy any kind of I.D. you want; driver’s licenses from other states, Social Security cards, etc. To say that these are “undocumented” workers is a fallacy. They have documents, only those documents really belong to someone else. If an illegal is caught using a stolen driver’s license or stolen Social Security card, they should be emprisoned to the full extent of the law, along with the slug that sold them that stolen documentation. Having your SS # stolen can ruin your life, especially financially.

    Birthright citizenship: This is a law that has been bastardized for purposes of political power. No person, who is here illegally, and is under the jurisdiction of another nation, should be given “birthright” citizenship to a child they have here. And the law was never designed to be enforced as it is now. Here is an interesting article on that very issue:

    http://www.federalistblog.us/2007/09/revisiting_subject_to_jurisdiction/

    I was watching Border Wars the other night. The Border Patrol had picked up a dozen or so of illegals who had crossed over because the cayote deserted them and they were lost and beginning to need medical treatment. One young woman was very, very pregnant, in the last few weeks of her pregnancy. When the BP Agent asked her why she would attempt such a dangerous trip when her baby was due in just a few days (running the risk of going into labor in the wilds) she replied that she was trying to get to a U.S. hospital so her baby would be an American citizen and she could get money from the U.S. since she did not earn very much in Mexico. Due to the publicity in Mexico of our welfare system, it is common knowledge there.

    Now, something for your wife: we here in Texas are mighty, mighty proud of our Tejano patriots. She might like to read about them.

    http://www.tamu.edu/faculty/ccbn/dewitt/tejanopatriots.htm

    and

    http://www.houstonculture.org/hispanic/alamo.html

    Fortunately, we here in Texas are now, with the new text books, going to teach children of the heroics of Tejanos in the fight against an oppressive Mexican government and for freedom. We will also now teach children of the brave freedom fighters of the American Revolution who were Africans, like Crispus Attucks. Children must learn to have pride in their own and understand the contribution their ancestors gave to this nation’s quest for freedom. As it stands now, in most places only two things are taught about black Americans; slavery and history starting with Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. How shameful they don’t know their history of seeking freedom goes much farther back than the 1860′s and the 1960′s. We are failing them by not instilling that pride in them.

    ReplyReply
  17. retire05 says: 117

    @Hankster58:

    I was simply pointing out to Larry that his phrase doesn’t really apply. Each attempt is a new beginning generally using the same concept with different applications. Edison didn’t change the shape of the light bulb, he merely changed with he used as a conductor. Same glass, same principal, different components.

    ReplyReply
  18. retire05 says: 118

    @johngalt:

    John, not sure Aqua would agree with me, but I don’t like the term “Latino.” That labels a person that has origins in a Latin-based language, and that would also include the Spanish, the Italians (who are not considered Hispanic), some from Switzerland, and those from Portugal, who do not speak Spanish. The blue eyed, blond haired Spanish would not fit into that catagory either.

    Just a little quirk of mine.

    ReplyReply
  19. Hard Right says: 119

    @johngalt:
    Just to be clear I wasn’t saying he had a mandate, just that I think it’s rather meaningless whether or not he does.

    BTW, have a link for that info? Thanks in advance.

    ReplyReply
  20. johngalt says: 120

    @Hard Right:

    CNN polling, HR.

    For 2008 numbers, here;
    http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/president/

    For 2012 numbers, here;
    http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/results/main

    This is general exit polling data, so the numbers have some margin of error. However, the general trend is what is interesting when looking at them.

    ReplyReply
  21. Hard Right
    yes the market is down because of OBAMA WIN,
    and CAVUTO is talking about doomsday cliff,
    on first JANUARY 2013, that will affect AMERICA AND MORE COUNTRIES,
    and no MITT ROMNEY ABILITY TO GET THE JOBS COMING,
    the young vote OBAMA,
    THEY SHOULD HAVE ASK ADVICES FROM THE OLD WHO VOTES MITT ROMNEY,
    they knew better

    ReplyReply
  22. Budvarackbar
    raise your head up, you forget the PATRIOTS listening to the half AMERICA,
    and the POWER OF THE STATES,now listening to the half AMERICA
    and the half AMERICA listening ,
    and all of them thinking , because they are smarter than the other half,
    they know there is other ways

    ReplyReply
  23. Ron H.
    ANTICSROCKS IS MY FRIEND
    I warn you not to insult my friends,
    now here’s a banana get back in your cage,

    ReplyReply
  24. Hankster58 says: 124

    REtire 05 #117… OK, i can go with that!! I “heard ya” just a bit wrong… I’m still in mourning.. excuse me.
    Hank

    ReplyReply
  25. Aqua says: 125

    @retire05:

    No welfare from any state or municipality. If you are here illegally, you are not entitled to the benefits of being a citizen or a legal immigrant. It should be against federal law for states, like California, to provide monitary welfare for any illegal.

    I completely agree. I have always be opposed to anchor babies and remain so now. Georgia does not provide welfare for illegals and I would fight to keep it that way.

    Now, something for your wife: we here in Texas are mighty, mighty proud of our Tejano patriots. She might like to read about them.

    I’ll pass it on. She’s a California girl, Baja California, but we both like Texas very much. My brother lives in Houston.

    We are failing them by not instilling that pride in them.

    Could not agree more. We passed Amendment 1 here in Georgia this week. We will now be able to build Charter Schools at the community level. No need for State or Federal guidance or input. Chock another one up for the good guys.

    ReplyReply
  26. Aqua says: 126

    @retire05:

    John, not sure Aqua would agree with me, but I don’t like the term “Latino.”

    Yep, I agree. It’s a big mess to try to categorize all Spanish speaking people. Mexicans don’t like Cubans, Cubans don’t like Mexicans, neither like Puerto Ricans and Puerto Ricans don’t like anyone. Then you have the Dominicans and all of Central and South America and a totally different mess.

    ReplyReply
  27. retire05 says: 127

    @Aqua:

    Actually, Aqua, all states provide welfare in one way or another for illegals. Ususally it is via the anchor baby which makes them eligible for housing, EBT cards, cell phones, utilities, Medicaid, etc. No state denies that to an anchor baby that was born here. In my small town, most of the public housing is full of non-English speakers. Why? The baby or in most cases, multiple children. The more kids, the more taxpayer largess.

    And like I said; is a blond haired, blue eyed Spaniard a “Latino”?

    ReplyReply
  28. @Ron “Sluggo” H.: No anticsrocks is my screen name, my real name is Donald King.

    As I said about you earlier, you are the kind of person that I’d like to purchase for what you are actually worth and sell for what you THINK you’re worth. I could retire tomorrow!

    But hey, if it makes you feel all big and bad to pick on Ms. Beezy and exploit the language barrier, then what does that say about you? Not much, I’ll tell you that.

    Any time you think you’re bright enough for a debate with me, just shout. Pick the topic and go first, Sluggo. But remember, you have to provide links to your sources, whatever that topic may be.
    .
    .

    ReplyReply
  29. @retire05: You said:

    It should be against federal law for states, like California, to provide monitary welfare for any illegal.

    I wouldn’t make it illegal. I would just say that any state that provides benefits, other than emergency medical help to those who have entered our country illegally, would not get one more dime of federal monies; not highway funds, not Medicaid funds, nothing.

    As for businesses that hire folks in the country illegally:

    First time – a fine of 25% of the offending business’ annual profits.

    Second time – the offending business loses it’s license to do business for a period of 6 months.

    Third and any subsequent times – the offending business loses it’s license to do business for one year.

    Only if you hit these businesses where it hurts them the most, which is in their wallet, only then will they stop hiring illegals.
    .
    .

    ReplyReply
  30. @ilovebeeswarzone: Don’t worry Beezy, I challenged Ron “Sluggo” H. to a debate, all he has to do is pick the topic and provide links to his sources; but I doubt he’ll take me up on it.

    Slugs usually just crawl along, leaving a slimy trail in their wake, kinda like he leaves his slimy comments in a trail behind him after he leaves.

    ReplyReply
  31. retire05 says: 131

    @anticsrocks:

    I don’t disagree with any of that. Frankly, the left wing states are waaaay too generous with the public coffers, just like the federal government.

    ReplyReply
  32. openid.aol.com/runnswim says: 132

    With regard to illegal immigration, the key to this, all along, would be steep fines (or even criminalization) for hiring undocumented workers. Say a fine of $1000 per day for every undocumented worker engaged by an employer, whether the employer is a farmer, a meat processing plant, a restaurant, a fishing boat, a contractor, a suburban homeowner, or a mother with childcare needs. Illegal immigration could have been stopped in its tracks thirty years ago, through a simple law like this, which not only would have been completely effective, but which would have paid for itself.

    There’s an established legal principle that laws which are not enforced are not enforceable. I can beat a speeding ticket for driving 45 miles an hour in a 35 mile an hour zone by producing statistics showing that the average speed driven by cars on the given stretch of road is 45.

    For years, it was known and understood by everyone that if an “illegal” made it across the border without being interdicted, he/she was home free and wouldn’t be hassled, if said “illegal” stayed otherwise out of trouble and lived a productive life. That was the reality which was understood by absolutely everybody. So, of course, lots of perfectly decent people, motivated by a desire to help their families, made the effort to cross the border and go to work for all those Anglo employers who were more than eager to employ them.

    Of all the people who ever knowingly hired an undocumented worker, were more of those people conservatives or liberals? It’s just a food for thought question. Also, why did all those candidates in the GOP primaries promise to electrify fences (figuratively and literally) and not promise to criminalize the hiring of undocumented workers or at least support very severe fines for employers which/who hired undocumented workers?

    You can make speeches demonizing workers or you can make speeches demonizing employers or you can make speeches demonizing both. But to demonize the employees while giving the employers a free pass strikes me as playing politics, rather than as being principled.

    To me, it seems like both scapegoating and hypocrisy.

    - Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA

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  33. retire05 says: 133

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim:

    Ah, I see you now want to talk about illegal immigration since you can’t answer my questions about what Obama was doing re Benghazi besides spend an hour on the phone with Bibi Netanyahu. Or why Hillary says she DID request extra security for Benghazi but it was denied by the White House. I understand, Larry. It just doesn’t look good for the Lightworker and so you ignore the questions.

    Up until the Lightworker was put in office, ICE did bust companies for hiring illegals. No longer. Now we are leading from behind on that.

    also, why did all those candidates in the GOP primaries promise to electrify fences? More spin from you, Larry, and so early in the morning. Only one said that, Herman Caine, and everyone thought he was an idiot. So no, it was not ALL those candidates in the GOP, it was one, and it make Herman Caine look like a fool, no one else. You are rapidly becoming as dishonest as your buddies Lib1 and Greg. As to making promises to criminalize hiring employees who are illegal, well, time for you to catch up, Larry. It is already against Federal law to do so. And Arizona tried that, remember? It got them hauled into court by the most corrupt Attorney General this nation has ever seen. You want employers punished? You should have voted for a different POTUS who would have hired a different Attorney General and head of the Department of Homeland Security. You know, someone who wouldn’t be arming our Border Patrol agents with beanbag shot when they are going up against Mexican drug runners with AK-47′s. Like Brian Terry.

    Now, I don’t suggest you try beating a speeding ticket in my state by complaining how every one else was driving over the speed limit. You will quickly be told that the DPS officer didn’t stop everyone else, he stopped you. So here is your Welcome To Texas citation. Just how you would prove to the judge that you were just following traffic is beyond me. But hey, maybe you have invented some new toy that allows you to do that. Not that the judge will care.

    ReplyReply
  34. Aqua says: 134

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim:

    Of all the people who ever knowingly hired an undocumented worker, were more of those people conservatives or liberals?

    Probably both. The Unions are in on it now.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/28/business/striking-palermos-pizza-workers-say-immigrants-were-fired-to-stop-a-union.html?pagewanted=all

    ReplyReply
  35. Hard Right says: 135

    Lovely. The GOP leadership is doing what they usually do after a loss- making things worse.
    They think their loss with hispanics and latinos is due to illegal immigration. Now they want to cave on it.
    They don’t seem to understand they are liberals politically AND socially. Giving amnesty to a bunch of future dem voters WOULD push us past the tipping point. Idiots.
    http://minx.cc/?post=334774

    Here in AZ we tried to punish businesses that knowingly hired illegals and the courts tossed out the law or gutted it.

    ReplyReply
  36. Aqua says: 136

    @retire05:

    Actually, Aqua, all states provide welfare in one way or another for illegals. Ususally it is via the anchor baby which makes them eligible for housing, EBT cards, cell phones, utilities, Medicaid, etc.

    True, but only for the anchor baby.

    And like I said; is a blond haired, blue eyed Spaniard a “Latino”?

    I know blond haired, blue eyed Mexicans. I’ve always thought that the term Latino referred to people of Latin America. Going by that metric, a Spaniard would not be considered Latino.

    I’ve been reading a lot today about republicans moving towards comprehensive immigration reform. We’ve heard this before, usually after a good beating. We have to pick our battles. Amnesty is not the answer, but there is going to be some change to the system. The question is whether or not republicans are going to lead in this or just get steam-rolled.

    ReplyReply
  37. retire05 says: 137

    @Aqua:

    I know an immigration attorney who is raking in the big bucks since the Obama administration took over. Obama’s backdoor Dream Act has people sitting in his waiting room like it was an charity ER. I asked him why and he told me that all that is now required is for the illegal to claim they have been here since they were children. I asked if anything like school records were required for proof. He said “No, the feds are just taking their word for it.”

    If the DC GOP caves in any way on border security and/or illegal immigration, the disgust coming from states that suffer under illegal immigration will be the final straw for many of those state’s conservatives. It will be for me. I will not work to support one Republican that caves on amnesty. Did we learn nothing from the Reagan amnesty? Seems not. And it seems the DC GOP is just too damn stupid to understand that Hispanics, like the Irish, will continue to vote Democrat.

    I had a good friend from New Mexico who was born in the barrio, worked his way through two years of a community college then on to the University of New Mexico, saved every dime he could get his hands on to build a business and entered politics after his business became successful. He was a Democrat who traveled to D.C. to protest the Shamnesty Bill. The idea that American Hispanics, that can track their families back to the days when the Southwest was part of Mexico, support amnesty is a fallacy. It simply shows you how out of touch politicans become once they hit the city limits of D.C.

    ReplyReply
  38. Aqua says: 138

    @retire05:
    That’s what I mean; either we get out in front of this or it gets out in front of us. We control the house, time to propose legislation that does not include amnesty.

    ReplyReply
  39. retire05 says: 139

    @Aqua:

    I just book marked a couple of articles written by a former associate of Vicente Fox on the issue of immigration/illegal immigration in the U.S. I can post the websites but the left here will go absolutely apoplectic, dismissing the articles simply because of the web site they appear on. I don’t feel like dealing with that today.

    The few paragraphs I read stated what I pretty much already knew. Larry wants to question if those that hire illegals are mostly liberals or conservatives (we already know what Larry’s take on it would be) but it is pretty clear that illegal labor is a win-win situation for even businesses in Larry’s beloved California.

    Beside the dark side of illegal immigration in the link I gave you, that affects other illegals most drastically, and the benefit to Mexico, and other nations to the south of our border, there is the down side to the undereducated in the native born Hispanic community. A forty year old second/third generation Hispanic, who, for what ever reason, didn’t manage to finish high school, is being made unemployable because he has to compete with those who come here illegally and are willing to work for a lot less money. i.e. a friend of mine who grew up in the roughest part of the barrio in San Antonio, worked as a gravel hauler. He was not afraid of hard work, and put in long hard hours to make sure his kids did not have to work and they would finish their education. He was pretty successful; one girl is a teacher, one girl is a legal aide, the oldest boy an Austin police office and the middle boy is a career Marine. Not bad, in my book. But he got put out of work by illegals who came to Texas with driver’s licenses from a) states that grant them to illegals or b) fake licences bought at places like Trader’s Village in Houston.

    Rafael was not deterred. He studied and took his GED. He finished one year of night courses at a junior college. When we went to war in Iraq, he drove to Houston, applied for a driver’s job with Halliburton and damn! he got it. He went from unemployment to well over $100K a year (yeah, he got shot at). When I asked him about the danger in Iraq, his comment was “What danger? I grew up in the barrio. Now that’s danger.” and just smile like a cheshire cat. Eleven years later, he’s still in Iraq.

    But Rafael is not the norm. Painters, plumbers, carpenters, electricians, landscapers, all the construction trades, where a man without a high school education could earn a livable wage, many of them minorities in my state, have all been replaced by illegals. In Houston, where your brother lives, the hourly wage for a carpenter went from over $15/hr to less than $8.00. Because of my support for the Hispanic community, I understand that it the middle class Hispanic that has been harmed the most by illegal immigration. And it angers me, really, really angers me.

    Oh, and to the choice of “lead or cave?” I’m betting on “cave.” John Boehner has the spine of an earth worm.

    ReplyReply
  40. @openid.aol.com/runnswim: Larry, a company the size of Cargill Foods would laugh at a one thousand dollar a day per illegal person hired fine. They have a processing plant about 60 miles from me and I used to live the next town over. I know more than a few folks who have worked there. The safety rules are displayed prominently in Spanish with a hand written copy of them hanging below.

    A few times a year ICE does do a round up of all the illegals working in that plant. When that happens, it only takes 2 business days and Cargill has 1 to 2 busloads of new, (and sometimes even the same) Hispanic workers to replace those ICE took away. In the middle of Illinois, the county seat where that plant is located has on staff, a full time Spanish interpreter at the court house.

    Only if you make the fine harsh and tailored to the size of the business will any such sanctions work. That is why I propose a percentage of their annual profits, anywhere from 10 to 25 percent would really make the offending company stand up and take notice.

    ReplyReply
  41. openid.aol.com/runnswim says: 141

    Hi Retire:

    Ah, I see you now want to talk about illegal immigration since you can’t answer my questions about what Obama was doing re Benghazi besides spend an hour on the phone with Bibi Netanyahu.

    No, what I said was that it’s not productive to discuss this until the facts came in. I provided a plausible explanation for why they didn’t immediately send in a gunship or a rescue mission. We don’t know if and when any request for improved security may have been brought to Obama’s personal attention. etc. I’ve several times stated my eagerness to have an informed discussion of this, down the road, when the facts are available. It’s now possible to discuss Watergate productively. Two months after Watergate, the only productive thing was to ask questions and get answers, and not to debate “guilt” or “innocence,” which is what you want to do know, without either of us knowing the facts. It’s a waste of time for both you and me.

    Regarding immigration, you don’t address the point and you misrepresent the point I was making. The point that I was making is that the “cure” for illegal immigration has always been going after the employers, which is easy to do and which would pay for itself. All of the GOP Presidential candidates railed against “illegals.” You yourself rail against illegals. If you’ve ever given an internet soapbox speech against the employers, I missed it, but I think that I can safely say that you’ve probably used 100 times as many words railing against the illegals as you’ve done against those criminals who employ them and who lure them to our cities and farms. But not one peep out of the GOP candidates about either enforcing existing or toughening existing laws against employers.

    It’s because it’s all hypocritical politics. It’s not about solving the problem. It’s about getting political power. Both sides do it, and illegal immigration is every bit as much a problem which resulted from Republican policies as resulted from Democratic policies.

    - Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

    ReplyReply
  42. retire05 says: 142

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim:

    I know you provided a plausible explaination for what “might have” happened. You’re very good at providing “plausible” explainations for the current administration. But you refused to address what we do know:

    Hillary says she requested additional security for Benghazi and it was denied by the White House. Is Hillary lying? Is the White House lying?

    We know that Obama spent an hour on the phone with Bibi Netanyahu during the Benghazi attack. Why?

    I find it amusing that you are not even slightly critical of this administration’s handling of Benghazi. Is there anything it can do wrong in your opinion?

    Now, as to my “railing” against illegals. Yep. Guilty as charged. I have seen the devestation it creates, especially in the Hispanic communities of my state. But then, I “rail” against all law breakers, Larry. Just because I don’t pin point them doesn’t mean that I am cutting them any slack. I’m not. Law breakers need to be punished.

    And tell me this; why should the enforcement of our laws even have to be discussed? Shouldn’t that just be a given that they are enforced? And did your beloved Obama discuss the enforcement of our laws? Nope. Because we know that we now have a DoJ that functions on an affirmative action policy when it comes to law breakers, like the New Black Panthers. We know that Obama has usurpted the Congress with his back door Dream Act. We know that Obama has no respect for the Constitution, and the limited authority that it gives him, yet you are SILENT on that.

    And now you are into word counting? Or did you just not read my dialog with Aqua? When you have to resort to word counting to try to prove a point, you obviously need to get a hobby because you have way too much time on your hands.

    ReplyReply
  43. openid.aol.com/runnswim says: 143

    Hi Retire,

    The “word count” wasn’t a count; it was just a guess.

    I’ve read a lot of your words about illegals. I don’t ever recall you criticizing the GOP candidates or anyone else for not cracking down on the criminals who are U.S. citizens and who are actually hiring the undocumented workers, thereby creating the very lure which draws them inside our borders. You live in Texas, correct? You must know at least one person (or perhaps more than one) who have employed illegals. Why do otherwise good people engage in criminal activity?

    I’ve discussed the back door dream act in the recent past.

    I’ve stated that I’ll be eager to discuss Benghazi with you, once we both have the facts. Until then, litigating guilt versus innocence is a waste of my time and yours.

    - Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

    ReplyReply
  44. retire05 says: 144

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim:

    it was just a guess

    Just a guess? Is that how you pratice medicine? By guessing? Unreal. And just because you don’t “recall” something doesn’t make it true, now does it?

    How about you read anticrocks comment #129, and my affirmative response #131. Just chose to ignore that, right?

    Do I know, personally, anyone who hires illegals. I can honestly answer that question with a resounding “NO”. Do I know OF some people whom I suspect employes illegals? Sure, and so do you. Why? I can answer that quite easily: YOU.

    You see, Larry, you cannot dumb down our children in union run schools, never give them pride in the contribution their ancestors gave to this nation, teach them that all rich people are evil, the world is on fire (to quote that idiot Al Gore), and that it is the government’s responsibility to take care of them from cradle to grave, abolishing all feelings of personal responsibility and expect them to take some entry level/menial/labor intensive job. Why should they? How many kids do you know would be willing to clean hotel rooms, including the toilets that other people made nasty, or flip hamburgers, or dig ditches for the telephone company? How many do you know that would be willing to take those jobs to work their way thru college?

    We have taught kids, who are now adults, that there is no such thing a personal responsibility and honor in working, no matter what the job is. We have TV shows that make fun of people in Louisiana who do labor intensive jobs and portray them all as rubes with missing teeth. Do you think Honey BooBoo is a show designed to make people like you respect others who are not like you? If you do, you are a bigger fool than I thought. No, those TV shows are designed to give someone who is sitting in a public housing project, living off food stamps, something to laugh about. Those stupid people who finds work is honorable, no matter how hard or how low the job may be.

    Until we instill in our kids the self respect that goes with having a job, any job, and that the government’s responsibility is not to take care of them, but to provide them with the simple 18 items listed in the U.S. Constitution, you are going to have illegals who will fill those jobs, work hard and yes, abuse our welfare systems. You are going to have companies who can’t find laborers hire illegals because the back end costs of that is dumped on the taxpayer. But it all stems from having an entire generation who thinks they are too damn good to clean toilets, flip hamburgers and dig ditches, and for that, we can thank those of you who have brought that about.

    Now, in case you don’t “recall”, I am not a fan of Mitt Romney. For one, he is a liar. He hired illegals, knew he was using a service that hired illegals, got called down on it once, said he would fire the company, didn’t and got called down on it again. But I would have voted for road kill over the Marxist that won.

    ReplyReply
  45. openid.aol.com/runnswim says: 145

    Hi Retire,

    I am interested in discussions and debates; I’m not interested in pissing contests, replete with the casting of aspersions on a personal level. What I said was both clear and honest. I don’t deserve snide remarks which are harmful to my reputation as a real person, running a real business, under my real name, insinuating a lack of professionalism, to be perhaps viewed by people who don’t take the time to read and understand our entire conversation. I’ve explained this before. You seem to have a need not only to prevail in a debate but to degrade your debate opponent on a personal level. If you’d care to rephrase your comments in a civil fashion, I’ll be happy to respond.

    Hi Antics,

    Thanks for your comments and suggestions regarding employers. Your suggestions are sensible, but they don’t include all the small businesses (restaurants, landscapers, etc.) and private individuals (homeowners, parents, etc.) which/who probably employ millions of undocumented workers and which are a huge part of the “magnet” problem.

    - Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

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  46. retire05 says: 146

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim:

    What snide remarks? That I blame YOU, and your fellow liberals, for dumbing down our children and taking away any sense of personal responsibility from them? I see you didn’t dispute that. You simply got all in a snit because, once again, you think I am picking on you. You said you made a guess. I expect you to treat me with the same consideration that you would treat your patients. And that does not include any guessing on your part.

    GROW A SET, LARRY.

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  47. openid.aol.com/runnswim says: 147

    Hi Retire,

    I will respond to one point, as it is too personal to ignore:

    That I blame YOU, and your fellow liberals, for dumbing down

    our

    children and taking away any sense of personal responsibility from them? I see you didn’t dispute that.

    You have no knowledge at all concerning MY role in any dumbing down of your children (reference to your word “our,” above) which may have occurred. And my own kids (who have fortunately escaped “dumbing down”) could, I believe, teach you more about personal responsibility than you will ever know. People with a decent sense of personal responsibility don’t publicly promote the discredited notion of collective guilt and don’t shoot off their mouths in the manner to which you seem to be addicted.

    - Larry W/HB

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  48. retire05 says: 148

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim:

    I never said you had any role in dumbing down my children. I was wise enough to send my kids to a school that did not have union teachers. I also don’t live in a state where the schools are controlled by a bunch of overpaid, petulant union members. But then, you understood what I meant. You just wanted to continue to whine about how mean I am to you.

    I doubt your kids could teach me anything about personal responsibility. Acorns don’t fall far from the tree, and I am sure they are little clones of you. And you are so liberal, and so apologetic about this Marxist administration, I am sure you have transferred that to your kids. But in all honest, Larry, you really need to stop dragging your children into the debate. It is a sign of weakness and disrespect toward your children.

    “Shooting off my mouth”, as you so elegantly put it, has not one damn thing to do with personal responsibility. How am I being personally irresponsible by point out that you are a sniveling little whiner? And you, of all people, discount “collective” guilt? Really? And you support a president who not only subscribes to collective guilt, but collective salvation?

    Let’s take an example of the liberal mindset that you subscribe to: The Los Angeles School District. Tell me, Whiner Larry, what is the graduation rate there? What is the dropout rate? Can you name the Republican on that school board? Can you even name any Republican on the LA city council? Your liberal buddies have run your state into the ground, and now you are facing backruptcy. You really think raising taxes is going to bail you out? The only increase in business is going to be for U-Haul. The wealthy of California are very, very mobile. They can buy homes in another state, transfer their earnings to a state with no income tax, and you lose big. Do you think corporate offices are not easily moved? Perhaps you should as Carl’s, Jr. CEO about that. Or Toyota.

    Now, if you want me to continue to not put up with your b/s, you’ll come back with some other perceived insult I have lobbed against you, only for me to not put up with your b/s any more than I already have.

    Also, one last item: you NEVER, or rarely, address what I say in my responses to you. You simply move on, go on some tangent about other things, or whine how I have hurt your widdle feelings. Mostly you whine.

    And you wonder why you garner no respect from me?

    ReplyReply
  49. @openid.aol.com/runnswim: You said:

    Thanks for your comments and suggestions regarding employers. Your suggestions are sensible, but they don’t include all the small businesses (restaurants, landscapers, etc.) and private individuals (homeowners, parents, etc.) which/who probably employ millions of undocumented workers and which are a huge part of the “magnet” problem.

    Why not? If a law is made AND enforced that ANY business hires an illegal alien to work, then they suffer the consequences I laid out in comment #129.

    If you owned a lawn care business and employed, say 15 people, would you knowingly hire an illegal alien when you know that when caught you’d be fined 25% of your annual profits the first time, lose you license to do business for 6 months the second time and one year every time after that?

    ReplyReply
  50. Smorgasbord says: 150

    @openid.aol.com/runnswim: #36
    I’m sorry it took so long to reply. I don’t have an Internet hookup to my desktop computer, so I use my iPhone. For some reason, when I click on a link to a comment in the email, it only goes to the article, and not the comment. You didn’t give a comment number, and I didn’t want to try to find it on the small screen of the iPhone, so I waited until I could take my computer to someone else’s WiFi and use it.

    You think that the path to glory is obstruction, as opposed to cooperation and compromise?

    When you say “obstruction,” if you mean I want congress to block any more increases in taxes, any increase in the size of government, any more regulations on businesses, and any other rights that the United States Constitution gave to the states, then I plead guilty to being an obstructionist. I’m curious what you thought of your party OBSTRUCTING the republicans to help with the obamacare bill by LOCKING THEM OUT so that they weren’t allowed to take part in the writing of the bill. Would that be considered an act of OBSTRUCTION?

    Do you understand what the electorate will look like, circa 2016?

    If it keeps going the way you liberals want it, it will be welfare recipients who want the free stuff to keep coming, federal workers who want to keep their jobs, and illegals who want to just cross the border into America and be an automatic citizen.

    Do you ever again want to appoint a Supreme Court justice?

    You forget that I don’t belong to any party, so my party NEVER will be allowed to appoint anybody to anything. I would love to be the one who appoints Supreme Court judges. The only requirement would be that they make decisions based ONLY on the United States Constitution, not like some of them who want to use other country’s laws to decide things in the USA.

    Why didn’t the latter want to be seen on the same platform as Romney, after having a love in with Obama?

    With the Internet, you can ask him yourself. I’m guessing that he knew that if he didn’t do what obama wanted, obama would pass up New Jersey with Federal aid, just like he has after different disasters in states that were conservative. In my opinion, Christie should have been himself and let obama not send Federal aid to New Jersey and let the world see the REAL obama.

    Christie was the one who predicted that Romney would change the electoral landscape the night before the first debate.

    A lot of us were hoping for a landslide for Romney to show the democrats that they need to start putting the welfare of the county first. Did you know that obama lost in EVERY state that had photo ID? http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2957116/posts Maybe democrats don’t want to show photo ID because they know that the republican party has much better looking members, but they don’t want to admit it.

    Or, as told by a professional political science writer:

    Are you saying that if Romney would have won, we wouldn’t be listening to grumpy people in the propaganda media? Chris Matthews would be having a heart attack. The thrill would be going DOWN his leg.

    ReplyReply

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