When a story regarding the Trayvon Martin death appears, it is almost universally accompanied by this image:
It is of a Trayvon Martin years younger than he really was. And it’s not accurate. Dan Linehan has done some sleuthing and found a much different picture of Trayvon Martin than the one being forced down our throats. The real Trayvon Martin is being scrubbed as you read this.
This is a more recent image of Trayvon Martin
And so is this:
It seems that Tray was also on Twitter, but his account seems to have been recently deleted by his family or friends.
His screen name was “@NO_LIMIT_NIGGA, as you can see from the twitpic account screenshot above. He was also a member of a twitter hash group #team4dat.
At first, I was skeptical that anyone would maintain an account with that sort of derogatory slur in the title, but after doing some research, it’s apparent that it was Trayvon’s account.
The account was in existence long before the shooting occurred a few weeks ago, and was deleted only recently, there are still dozens of references to @NO_LIMIT_NIGGA in google’s cache.
The associated twitpic account matches the account name and is still online at the time of publication. Most of the pics were uploaded months ago, so this account was associated with Trayvon long before the shooting took place.
Several of Tray’s friends have been very open about referring to Trayvon using that account as well. His cousin, who is quite active on Twitter, refers to Trayvon more than a dozen times using the @NO_LIMIT_NIGGA nickname.
Apparently the account has been terminated but Google has lots of cached references.
Trayvon referred to himself as “Slimm” in his Twitter account and his Facebook account.
He had friends in gangs, if he was not in one himself, and there is a question as to whether Martin was active in the drug trade.
On Facebook on February 5th, his friend posts on his wall asking to talk business. Trayvon says he doesn’t have a phone available and his friend says, “Damn were u at a nigga needa plant.”
George Zimmerman, on the other hand, doesn’t warrant the same treatment. The picture the media offers all the time is this one:
We don’t get to see George as a 13 year old. We don’t even get to see George nicely dressed.
George Zimmerman refers to himself as “Hispanic”, but the media has created a new ethnicity for George Zimmerman- the “white Hispanic.”
As Linehan notes, there has been extensive investigation by the media into Zimmerman but there has been little to none into Trayvon Martin.
Exit questions- Why is the media so afraid to accurately portray Trayvon Martin as he really was? Is it because people would stop wondering why George Zimmerman took an interest in him? Why did the media need to create the “white Hispanic” label for George Zimmerman?
Finally-if George Zimmerman is a “white Hispanic”, is Barack Obama a “white black”?
UPDATE by Curt
The Daily Caller obtains Trayvon Martin’s tweets
UPDATE by Curt
New Black Panther Party leader arrested in DeKalb Co.
UPDATE by Curt
NEW BLACK PANTHERS OFFER $1 MILLION FOR ZIMMERMAN’S CAPTURE
DrJohn has been a health care professional for more than 30 years. In addition to clinical practice he has done extensive research and has published widely with over 70 original articles and abstracts in the peer-reviewed literature. DrJohn is well known in his field and has lectured on every continent except for Antarctica. He has been married to the same wonderful lady for over 30 years and has three kids- two sons, both of whom are attorneys and one daughter on her way into the field of education.
DrJohn was brought up with the concept that one can do well if one is prepared to work hard but nothing in life is guaranteed.
Except for liberals being foolish.
@duncandinga:
Wouldn’t @No_Limit_Nigga named himself NewNo_Limit_Nigga since the prior company was NOT taken over by Master P’ son … it went bankrupt in 2003!! … the NNL was relaunched around 2001 .. his son is rapper lil romeo founded nolimitforever in 2010
Maater P is quite the father : Miller’s financial status has been brought to light as the rapper and his ex-wife are engaged in a heated battle over child support. Though his net worth was once estimated at $600 million, he has been ordered to pay just $271 a month in child support for his four minor children.
interestingly Master P shows no gold grillz on his webpage http://www.myspace.com/masterp/photos/36043999#{%22ImageId%22%3A36043929} if that is his trademark….seems the trademark is a tank : http://www.nolimitforever.com/
And we can expect the special prosecutor to charge Mr. Zimmerman with lesser offensives whether or not he thinks he can successfully bring the manslaughter and/or negligent homicide charges. However, the special prosecutor might find that the evidence will not support conviction so he might decide to forgo charges all together.
I expect that the special prosecutor will
feel pressurebe tempted throw the book at Zimmerman on lesser charges if necessary.@GeeK:
That’s where scapegoats come in handy. Eventually the internal hatred, resentments, rivalries, vengefulness , malice et cetera escalates to such an extreme that a society blows itself apart in violence or a society finds a suitable scapegoat into which it can invest and onto whom it can project its internal hatreds, resentments, rivalries, vengefulness , malice … and violence. In an Archaic society the king and/or a priest would mediate the selection of the sacrificial scapegoat. In our society POTUS and the clergy are heirs to those archaic roles. One may note that POTUS has joined the good reverends Al and Jesse. They have signaled their selection of a scapegoat …
@drjohn:
So if you were walking down the street at night and a stranger accosted you, you would answer calmly and patiently whatever questions he asked? You’re an accommodating fellow. Or (per the subject of this post) is it different for one dressed a certain way, a way you apparently deem inherently suspicious? A person like that should expect questions, is that your point?
And what exactly is it that the media “doesn’t want” me to know? Do you think everyone thinks like you, that the Trayvon from the first picture and the Trayvon from the second picture’s lives aren’t equally valuable, or at least equally protected by the law?
@Tom:
It was during the day.
It was a gated community,
The gated community had a neighborhood watch (one might have expected dad’s girlfriend to have clued the young fellow in)
If such a stranger introduced himself to me as a member of the neighborhood watch I would most certainly accommodate him and give him a neighborly straight answer. I would teach and expect any children I might have to do the same … unless they were up to no good.
One behaves neighborly in a neighborhood (unlike one might in a ‘hood’).
@Mike O’Malley:
No, actually it was early evening.
Zimmerman’s 911 call came in at 19:11. Sunset was at 17:44 so it was already dark outside.
For those who wish to continue to so vigorously defend Zimmerman, I will caution you that a really big piece of information has been released by the Sanford PD. It is very destructive to Zimmerman’s story.
When you watch the video embedded below remember that Zimmerman claims that he was punched in the nose (his attorney claimed that his nose was broken). Zimmerman also claimed to have had cuts on the back of his head.
Roll the tape:
Now, as you watched it did you notice anything odd?
That’s right. There’s not a drop of blood on him anywhere. His nose is not swollen or bloody which it would be if it had been broken
His shirt is clean on the front side and is still neatly tucked in. On the back of his head there are no apparent injuries. No blood on his scalp which is plainly visible.
It appears that Mr. Zimmerman has a big problem.
@Mike O’Malley:
So you know that Zimmerman identified himself as a member of the neighborhood watch? I didn’t know you were there. And are you actually claiming that a member of a neighborhood watch can walk up to a person on a public street and compel that person to stop and answer questions? Wow.
Tom, your problem is you are obviously from the hood, where everyone has something to hide. Nobody said a neighborhood watch-person could compel anyone to say or do anything. In a law abiding white neighborhood, most people don’t get defensive if someone asks, why they are there. When the time comes that black people finally decide to live like civilized human beings, and treat others in a like manner, they will be treated with the respect that they have not yet earned.
@Tom 2:
Ha! Is it that obvious? Did you trace my particular brand of vernacular English back to a specific socio-economic background? Bravo.
Well this has really brought out the best in everyone. It must be hard for you. Trayvon Martin got killed, yet you’re the real victim.
Tom2 If someone in my law abiding white neighborhood in San Clemente asked me what I was doing I’d probably tell em “Get a life” unless theywere a big burley guy with a gun in which case i’d run like hell.
BTW Why were there no marks or blood on Zimmerman’s face or back of head?
Page 3 of the 4 of the police report says:
“While I was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been lying on the ground.
Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head.”
………..
“Zimmerman was placed in the rear of my police vehicle and was given first aid by the SFD.
While SFD was attending to Zimmerman, I over heard him state, “I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me.””……….
So we learn that Zimmerman’s wounds were cleaned up before he was transported to the PD.
I don’t know how anyone who doesn’t know him well can state his nose was NOT broken.
My brothers all got their noses broken over their youths, sometimes merely bending them sideways (no swelling), other times flattened or bent with swelling.
I’m not saying Zimmerman is ”innocent” as he obviously shot Trayvon, but he could be blood-free before he got to the police station, if the Fire and Rescue did their job.
Edited to add…
Here are two close up stills from the video above:
http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/police-surveillance-video-of-zimmerman-may-show-head-injury/
“ABC News reported that Zimmerman appears uninjured in the video. But a still image from the video indicates what appears to be a vertical laceration or scar several inches long.
ABC did note that at the 49-second mark in the video, one of the police officers accompanying Zimmerman stops to look at the back of Zimmerman’s head for several seconds.”
@Tom
Trayvon Martin is an undisputed victim. He is a victim of an urban thug culture that is idolized by young people of all races. This bogus set of ideas and actions and beliefs is societal poison. There is no place in a functioning society for the dysfunctional gangsta/rap/hip-hop lifestyle. Tom 2 nailed it.When these sad little wannabe’s pull up their pants,marry the women they impregnate,respect the basic societal norms and denounce their institutionalized victim-hood they get a place at the table. Incidentally, I am CCL holder and
if I’m assaulted the way Zimmerman was,I’m damn sure going to finish it.I don’t understand why people think Zimmerman should have laid there and let a thug beat him to death.
@Brian:
You and many others still can’t seem to separate your personal distaste and animus for Trayvon Martin and what he represents to you – whether that be his race, his clothing, his “hip-hop lifestyle” – from the simple fact that American citizens have certain rights and those rights aren’t different for you and him. You, just like Dr John, are desperately trying to twist this to jive with your simplistic worldview, where all thugs had it coming, and all vigilantes are heroes. Perhaps you’ve watched too many Charles Bronson movies.
What’s really amazing to me is the sad unintentional irony of the DrJohnBots, who angrily respond to the extremists who put a bounty on George Zimmerman’s head with a campaign of character assassination against a dead teenager. Does it even occur to you people that not only have you ceded any of the moral highground you might think you posses, you’ve burned it down? The question I posed to Dr John four days ago still rings true: do two wrongs make a right?
@Tom:
Shhhhh…. They’re deeply involved in concentrating on their narrative right now and don’t wish to be disturbed.
@Tom:
No, I want the truth, and we haven’t gotten it yet.
@Aye:
Ha! and you keep throwing those inconvenient facts in their way.
@drjohn:
That’s what you’re trying to do? If you’re talking about getting to the truth of what transpired between Martin and Zimmerman, I’d judge your efforts to be pretty weak and definitely one-sided. But it seems to me you’re actually more interested in establishing grounds for why Martin dying isn’t really such a bad thing. If you’re narrowly focused on the legality of the shooting, why bring up Martin’s tweets? Was Zimmerman reading them that night? Why bring up who Martin’s friends allegedly were? Did Zimmerman know his friends? What does the alleged jewelry in the bag have to do with it? Does George Zimmerman have x-ray vision?
@Tom:
I am not surprised that this is your opinion and you’re entitled to it. I think shooting Martin was the last thing Zimmerman wanted to do and I will make that case.
This really is a stupid thing to say. It’s a tragedy for all involved. The truth may take you where you don’t want to go. I bet you thought Crystal Mangum was innocent too.
@Tom ABC is running a video of Zimmerman at SFD. Their claim is that Zimmerman shows no evidence of injury. The video itself shows the area shaved on Zimmerman’s head by EMTs to treat the contusions caused by Martin’s repeatedly slamming Zimmerman’s head on the sidewalk. The police report states that Zimmerman was bleeding from a punch to the nose and back of the head. The report shows that SFD EMS treated Zimmerman at the scene. You want the truth? We all want the truth,unfiltered and presented with clarity.The Media is not giving us the truth.Posting pictures that show Martin five years ago, claiming that a video is a smoking gun and having it disproved is not objective,responsible reporting.It is an example of what agenda driven media does when any means justify their ends. as far as personal bias against the Gangsta lifestyle. It is a cancer in the black community and is a corrosive that replaces positive societal norms with a glorified lawlessness and lack of personal responsibility.
@Aye:
The Paramedics had already cleaned him up and tended his wounds by the time this video is made. However you should take note of how the officer keeps looking at the back of his head and also wipes his hand off on his uniform after touching the jacket Zimmerman is wearing. Like he got blood on his hands.
It’s all unraveled now. Too bad for their “Pin the Racecard on the Honky” game.
They tried to pin it on a hispanic democrat that signed up to vote for AlGore and mentors black kids in the neighborhood.
They’ll never make this fly. No matter how much runway they give it.
It’s the Spruce Goose of racebaiting.
@Brian:
Umm…so now you’re claiming that the EMTs shaved a spot on Zimmerman’s head? Really? And you’re basing your conclusion on what precisely?
Is it normal, routine practice….you know, to allow EMT personnel to get near your freshly injured body with sharp metal objects?
That really strains the fabric of believability.
Nope. The report shows that Zimmerman was bleeding from his nose and the back of his head. It does NOT reach a conclusion as to the cause of those wounds. That’s plainly, and undeniably, nothing more than pure supposition on your part.
Basic first aid was administered. No diagnosis. No head shaving. No stitches. Nothing more than stopping his bleeding and tending to his most immediate medical needs.
If that’s what you truly want, then you should return to the starting gate and begin again because, with your very first post on this site regarding this matter, you’ve already distorted things out of shape.
Sorry to be the one to point out all that stuff to you but your acrobatic show just wasn’t that impressive.
@Ken Weaver:
The EMTs had administered basic first aid. They worked to provide him with aid for his most acute medical needs. That’s what EMTs do.
In this situation they would have applied pressure to the wounds to stop the bleeding and, had they been severe enough to warrant it, the wounds would have been bandaged.
As to cleaning him up, these are EMTs we are talking about. It’s not their responsibility to make the victim presentable enough to appear in polite society. They’re there to solve the “emergency.”
Your theory doesn’t even begin to explain the lack of blood on Zimmerman’s shirt or jacket. Did the EMTs do his laundry too?
The two police officers looked him over in a routine fashion before processing him out of the sally port. You’ll notice that they search him, check his pockets etc, and then signal for the third officer who enters the port from the station. Perhaps the officer was looking for a wound on the back of his head rather than checking it to see if it were still bleeding.
If Zimmerman were covered with blood as you wish to convince us that he is, then why didn’t the officers don some latex gloves prior to touching him? In the era of diseases that are borne and transmitted through body fluids gloves are always worn prior to contact with blood. Always.
The more likely scenario is that the jacket was wet and the officer simply dried his hand on his pants leg.
@Aye:
Keep trying to spin this. Your “Pin the Racecard on the Honky” game is coming apart at the seams. Zimmerman is a hispanic democrat who became a democrat to vote for AlGore in 2000, and he mentors two black kids in the same neighborhood.
“White hispanic”? Why don’t you call Carlos Santana that, or Ricky Martin or Selena Gomez?
Why don’t you call Obama white-black?
Get a clue, bud. Everybody sees through your spin doctoring. Why didn’t they use the real photo’s of Trayvon Martin today instead of the 5 year old ones? Why did they use five year old photos of Zimmerman instead of one of him today? It’s called an agenda. Thanks for being an attack sheeple.
PS. It’s a red jacket. Maybe they didn’t see the blood on it before they touched it. You want to suppose the worst about Zimmerman. And the best about Martin. Prejudiced? That fits you to a tee.
@Aye:
I have read through portions of yours and Dr.J’s exchanges on this, and you both have brought up important points to consider.
However,
That is engaging in the exact same thing you are arguing with others for doing. That is, assuming a reason for an action reported(in this case seen in a video). Not saying you are right, or wrong, but that making an assumption like that is why the case has blown up the way it has.
@drjohn:
The only place I don’t want to go is where you’ve already been: trying to justify someone’s death based on a stereotype. Everything you write leads to the same road, that this case should be treated differently because of the way the victim looked. But let’s take you at your word that you’re only interested at the truth. Others have laid out what we know about the events as they unfolded better than I can. I will simply reiterate that there are two damning facts that cannot be dismissed: Zimmerman admitted to police on a recorded line that he was following Martin because he looked ‘suspicious”; and Zimmerman shot Martin, who was unarmed, on a public street. No matter what transpired between Zimmerman and Martin in the moments before the shot was discharged doesn’t change the simple fact that Zimmerman’s poor decision to stalk Martin resulted in Martin’s death. You know the old saying, don’t carry a gun if you’re not prepared to use it. Zimmerman had to have been (of should have been) cognizant of the fact that by being armed and seeking a confrontation, he was putting himself in a situation where he might have to use lethal force. So why would a person who is not trained in law enforcement put himself in the position by making that proactive decision? So tell me, Dr. John. Hypothetically, if your son was shot under identical circumstances, and a video surfaced showing that your son, realizing he was being followed, hid behind a bush and then jumped out, startled and hit his stalker, who then fired, you would be fine with your son’s killer not being charged? It would not occur to you that the shooter’s actions and decisions leading up to the encounter alone warranted a potential manslaughter charge?
@Tom:
Knockoff the cheap sarcasm and don’t waste my time with straw men, Tom. I answered your hypothetical with a illustrative hypothetical of my own.
And do not put words in my month again.
@Aye:
Thank you for your correction regarding the time of the shooting Mr. Aye.
Review a few things for me, Mr. Aye. Trayvon Martin was a troubled young man. He was doing drugs, maybe just pot, but maybe more. Trayvon Martin had multiple school suspensions and on one occasion he was found to be in possession of stolen goods along with a burglary tool. One of Trayvon Martin’s friends indicated the Mr. Martin threw a punch at a bus driver.
Trayvon Martin was in the neighborhood because he was staying with his father’s girl friend during a long school suspension.
It was after dusk. Tell me, did Trayvon Martin’s dad or the girl friend put prudent restrictions on Trayvon Martin’s where-abouts? Did they give him a curfew? Did they explain to him that he was in a good neighborhood and that he would need to behave and be respectful of their neighbors? Did they explain to him that some of their neighbors ran a neighborhood watch? Given Trayvon Martin’s history of making poor choices did Trayvon’s dad set reasonable limits for Trayvon while he was staying away from home?
When Trayvon Martin did not return from a quick trip to the corner store, say by 7;30 or 8:00pm did his dad and his dad’s girl friend look for him? When he did not return by say 10:00 or 11:00pm did they contract the neighborhood watch or the local police to ask for help?
.
BTW I think your video was problematized this afternoon by the Daily Caller It seems that it may conceal a gash on Mr. Zimmerman’s head. It does not account for the medical care Mr. Zimmerman received before the video was made nor is it consistent with the on the scene police reports.
Police surveillance video of Zimmerman may show head injury
I hope this is helpful and I hope you can answer my questions above.
@Brian:
Thank you for your observations Brian.
Maybe you can answer some of the questions I put to Mr. Aye.
Trayvon Martin was a troubled young man from a broken family. He was doing drugs, maybe just pot, but maybe harder drugs. Trayvon Martin had multiple school suspensions and on one occasion he was found to be in possession of stolen goods along with a burglary tool. One of Trayvon Martin’s friends indicated the Mr. Martin threw a punch at a bus driver.
Trayvon Martin was in the neighborhood because he was staying with his father’s girl friend during a long school suspension.
It was after dusk. Tell me, did Trayvon Martin’s dad or the girl friend put prudent restrictions on Trayvon Martin’s where-abouts? Did they give him a curfew? Did they explain to him that he was in a good neighborhood and that he would need to behave and be respectful of their neighbors? Did they explain to him that some of their neighbors ran a neighborhood watch? Given Trayvon Martin’s history of making poor choices did Trayvon’s dad set reasonable limits for Trayvon while he was staying away from home?
When Trayvon Martin did not return from a quick trip to the corner store, say by 7;30 or 8:00pm did his dad and his dad’s girl friend look for him? When he did not return by say 10:00 or 11:00pm did they contract the neighborhood watch or the local police to ask for help?
@ Aye Tom et al.
ABC ran with a video, that when analyzed shows a vertical laceration on the rear of Zimmerman’s head. Nan G and Mike O’ Malley furnished links to that video. Before a dressing or sutures are applied anywhere on the body, hair is removed , cut or shaved off for access to the wound and provide purchase for the dressing. MSNBC and CBS also ran with the story. They did this to further a narrative that is unsupported by fact. Please avail yourself of the links provided and make your observations afterward. As to cause, SPD has stated that the injuries Mr. Zimmerman sustained are consistent with his statements regarding the course of events that night. I am not making suppositions unsupported by statements of fact. Furthermore Mr. Zimmerman’s Kel-Tec PF9 semi-auto pistol when recovered at the scene had been fired but retained the spent casing in the chamber and a full magazine. Zimmerman was carrying the pistol with a round chambered and the mag topped off at capacity. The fired casing still in the gun,when it should have been ejected is consistent with a struggle for the gun. The slide was not able to cycle the next round because it was being gripped and pulled away from the shooter. Powder burns, stippling and GSR on Martin’s body will confirm this. Martin’s death was unnecessary, that is accepted by everyone here. That the tragedy is being used to further the liberal agenda is truly despicable. As far as my personal bias; minorities complaining about perceived stereotypes shouldn’t openly reinforce them.
@Brian:
Careful, Aye doesn’t like arguing with professional opinions (SPD). He’ll have a case of the azz all night when he reads this.
@Brian:
WTF? Who died and made you king spokesperson for FA? Martin was a thug- involved in drug trade and thus a candidate for the Darwin socialism award-which he won.
Zimmerman is a hero. You people who can’t recognize this have a case of the stupid which can’t be cured.
@Mike O’Malley:
And that is what we know of Martin. I’ll lay you ten-to-one odds he was guilty of much, much more criminal conduct-and oxygen thief-than we’ll ever know.
@ Ivan
Martin’s death was unnecessary. If he had possessed a functional social ethic he would not have resorted to violent confrontation as a default reaction. Aggressors act when the price of that aggression is perceived to be cheap. Martin chose to reengage after Zimmerman had”lost “him. Martin reacted with violence against a person who was legally armed. Martin chose poorly. I am sorry if my reading of the consensus here angered you. It was not meant to. As to bunched knickers and the red ass; it is possible to lead folks to the cool, clear spring of logic but you cannot make them drink.
AYE
HI, I have much respect for you, for taking my side a few times, and I just want to say, please don’t side up with TOM, you know he is a trouble maker from the other side
bye
@ilovebeeswarzone:
Beezie my dear. I have to say that I don’t side with individual people in any instance.
Instead I choose where I stand on an issue based on right and wrong, the provisions of the US Constitution, or the letter of the law.
In this particular instance Tom and I agree on some stuff. That won’t always happen. Heck, I don’t agree with the Conservative voices on this site 100% of the time either. That’s the beauty of FA. We’re not afraid to go toe to toe with the people on our side.
Don’t worry, next time Tom is out of line I’ll be right there the pounce on what he has to say.
@Brian: One wonders why Trayvon was on the phone with his girl friend and not with his dad. If he had justifiable concerns about being followed by a stranger why would he not call his dad and ask his dad to come get him and walk him home. The fact the Trayvon Martin was on the call with his girl friend suggests that he did not actually perceive the watchman as a present aggressive threat. Was Martin acting out a ‘thug’ drama for the benefit of his girl friend? That seems more likely that other possibilities. Was Martin irritated that Zimmerman posed an obstacle to possible burglary opportunities for Martin? Was Martin trying to intimidate Zimmerman so as to recreate an atmosphere of lawlessness one might find in the hood? Was Martin trying to intimidate Zimmerman so as to recreate an environment where law abiding citizens are afraid to intervene and to even ask questions, such as one might find in the hood?
@Mike O’Malley:
you might want to check who my post was addressed to, Mike.
@Mike O’Malley:
I’m curious. When you’re reduced to such ridiculous speculation as this, does it not even occur to you that your bias has lapped your critical facilities several times now in your race to a conclusion?
AYE
yes SR, I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU ARE SAYING,
THIS DEBATE IS SUCKING US ALL INTO TRYING TO WIN OUR POINT,
RUSH LIMBAUGH IS RIGHT BY WARNING US TO RESTRAIN, HE SURE KNOW HOW PASSIONATE THE CONSERVATIVES ARE ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION, AND I think this is more debated than has ever been
since the BIRTH OF AMERICA, JUST BECAUSE THIS GOVERNMENT WHICH WAS GIVEN THE POWER
BY PEOPLE WHO WHERE DECEIVED TO THINK THE MAN THEY VOTE FOR WAS GOING TO SERVE THE PEOPLE, ALL THE PEOPLE, NOW IS SHOWING HIS TRUE AGENDA OF COMMUNIST EMPOWRERMENT OVER THE REST OF THE CITIZENS WHO DON’T FIT IN AND CHALLENGE HIM TO STOP LYING TO AMERICANS,
BYE
@Aye:
I look forward to that. But for now, I have to say, I am quite enjoying being on the same side. Of course I think that’s because this isn’t the political issue that either side is trying to force it to be. The concept that a Liberal, Moderate or Conservative can never agree on anything is absurd, and those who try to force every issue into an either/or political litmus test are just creating worthless drama.
@Aye:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
@Aye:
Sentence?
@Tom:
Are you really curious Tom? Or you are accustomed to exercising poor judgment?
If you re-read my commentary above you will be find that I have in fact not concluded whether or not Mr. Zimmerman acted in violation of any law. I have observed however that Trayvon Martin had made one poor choice after another. And based upon the information supplied to us by Trayvon’s girl friend we can find that IF Trayvon threw the first punch decking Mr. Zimmerman than Trayvon Martin had in fact engaged in criminal behavior … again. Now perhaps Mr. Zimmerman lied about who threw the first punch but so far we have NO evidence that such is the case.
Trayvon’s poor judgment is rather obvious to most of us in this discussion. Why is it not obvious to you Tom? Do you behave the way the Trayvon did in the last weeks of his life? Don’t you think it would have been wise for Trayvon to go just go home and seek help and advice from his father?
@Mike O’Malley:
Mike, if you go up to my post #25, you will see why i disagree with you that Trayvon was the person who exercised poor judgement. First off, your conception of Trayvon’s poor judgement is all speculation – we simply don’t know for a fact what he did or why in the same way we know for a fact that Zimmerman followed Trayvon because he thought he looked “suspicious” rather than waiting for the police; or that Zimmerman was armed, so he should have been cognizant that forcing a confrontation could end tragically. Those are facts that I assume you won’t dispute. Maybe I’m being idealistic, but I don’t think walking down the street is poor judgement either, if that’s your point. Look at the dynamic that Zimmerman initiated: anything that Trayvon did was a reaction to to a circumstances that Zimmeman forced upon him. Zimmerman had the power and the intiative in this confrontation. He could have simply not followed Trayvon. That is what I come back to time and again. If he had simply listened to the police dispatcher this wouldn’t have happened. There is nothing that Trayvon could have done that would trump that poor decision, because everything that happened afterward was a result of it. I would be curious to hear your perspective on that.
Really now?! The behaviors resulting in multiple school suspensions, the drug use, the violent attack on a bus driver, the stolen property, the burglary tools … you don’t see any exercise in poor judgment, do you? Trayvon’s poor judgment is rather obvious to most of us in this discussion. Why is it not obvious to you Tom? Do you behave the way the Trayvon did in the last weeks of his life?
I’ll ask again, don’t you think it would have been wise for Trayvon to go just go home and seek help and advice from his father?
Mike O’Malley
hi, I’m sure that MR ZIMMERMAN was very inform,
I just heard that his father was a MAGISTRAT AND SPOKE ON HIS BEHALF, HIS BROTHER TOO.
BYE
@Mike O’Malley:
Your series of questions consistently engages in a string of suppositions and assumptions. You’re attempting to massage and shape a narrative which fits the conclusions you wish to make rather than objectively considering the evidence and allowing it to lead you to a logical conclusion.
Although it’s clear that you’re trying to head toward a pre-determined conclusion, I will play along for a bit.
Assumes facts not in evidence. If you wish to argue that Martin had gotten into some trouble at school you could make a successful attempt at that. To say he was “troubled” however, is a label that you’re using to cast a negative aspersion toward Martin.
Once again, you’re assuming facts that are simply not in evidence. Unless you can cite an arrest and conviction or positive drug test results for Martin you cannot make that statement and expect that it will be considered factual.
Three to be precise. One for vandalism, one for the possession of the jewelry items (which is odd to me unless the suspension was related more to the screwdriver) and, the most recent recent in which an empty bag in his possession tested positive for marijuana. Note that none of the suspensions were related to violence.
There has been supposition that Martin got into trouble for an altercation with a bus driver but there is no evidence that actually ever occurred.
Once again you’re allowing yourself to engage in supposition. Martin was found in possession of women’s jewelry and a screwdriver. While it was theorized at the time that the jewelry items were stolen Martin was never arrested, charged, or prosecuted for any offense relating to those items.
Nor is there any evidence that the items that Martin was in possession of were indeed stolen even though those items were turned over to Miami detectives for further investigation.
So, help me understand this. We’re supposed to give evidentiary value to everything a person’s friends or acquaintances posts on the Interwebz? If Martin did indeed “throw a punch at a bus driver” then surely you have an incident report or statement from that bus driver to support your claim right?
Right?
That tweet was supposedly sent by Trayvon’s older brother. The problematic thing with that is whether the tweet is actually genuine. Here’s a screen capture:
You’ll notice that the date on the tweets indicates 21 Feb. The tweets also have “@RIP_TRAY9” as the sender name.
Trayvon Martin didn’t die until Feb 26th so why does the user name indicate that he was already dead on the 21st? Unless you can change your username on Twitter and all of the old tweets convert to the new name (and I don’t know one way or the other) then this is a big problem.
In any case, the tweets don’t prove anything because there’s nothing concrete to weigh them against.
Nor do they play any role in evaluating the events of Feb 26th.
The group of questions above are items to which there is no knowable answer. You are, of course, well aware of that and are only using your questions in order to engage in a tasteless and transparent attempt to cast the elder Martin and his fiancee in a negative light.
What value, precisely, does this play in evaluating the events of Feb 26th other than attempting to shift the focus to “hey, look what rotten parental role models they are”?
Your questioning of the parents actions answers speaks volumes about you and your evaluation of this issue.
Do you not have any questions at all about Zimmerman and his behavior? Odd, that.
With just a little bit of effort to familiarize yourself with the basics of these events you wouldn’t have to ask such questions because they’ve already been answered:
Well, I’m not at all surprised that you would follow the conclusion reached by the Daily Caller. That is, after all, the direction that you wish the evidence to lead you.
What’s inconvenient for you is that the video, as examined by the Daily Caller, is a much truncated version of a longer video. What’s also inconvenient is that when watched in motion rather than stills the so called injury is a fleeting glimpse at best.
What’s also inconvenient for you is that the much longer, non-truncated, version gives the viewer even more of an opportunity to look for injuries, cuts, bruises, blood, abrasions, etc. and those things are still not there.
Here’s that longer tape for you to review at your convenience:
You’re correct. The tape doesn’t account for first aid administered on site. On site first aid would have been limited to addressing the most immediate medical need and would have been limited to stopping any bleeding and applying dressings to any injuries that may have needed it.
On site first aid would NOT have extended to cleaning or cosmetic appearance of the wounds or the person with the injuries.
Finally, the video tape does not help to explain the absence of what should be very obvious blood on Zimmerman’s clothing.
Ivan says “Zimmerman was a hero” Truly as ridiculous as the vitriol coming from the NBP and Rev. Al. This 17 year old didn’t need to die. This Wannabee tough guy should have backed off when suggested by P.D.
As far as political points made or lost.Irrelevant and demeaning to the post.
Aye #46 Outstandiing.
CHANGE OF PACE You got Romney. Are you ready to go?
Brian
hi,
your comment tell me and hopefuly those who find fun in robbing other good citizens ,
it tell them that CRIME can and most likely end up in punishments of many kinds including death,
they must bring that into their mind, before they do or follow the criminal gangs,
they must think on that split second; is this right to rob any stranger?
just because I want what they have?, is this first time for me to step in crime will make my life better?
is those other guys are worthy of my friendship?, do I have a choice to leave?
@ ilovebeeswarzone
There are consequences to every action. Both parties in this case will suffer for theirs.Martin is dead at the threshold of life’s opportunities. Zimmerman’s life will be one of civil suits,notoriety and remorse for what he did or did not do. What has grown out of this is a narrative that the media, proffessional racists and the Obama regime are using to further their own agendas. The facts that police reports,witnesses and physical evidence support the initial finding is of no concern to those who would use a young man’s death and family’s greif for their purpose. This situation was never about any hate crime. It is about the outcome of a confrontation that became a violent one, when one party chose to assault a legally armed citizen. All the reports about both men’s lifestyle, behavior and beliefs all go to their character and motivation. That information is germane to the resolution of this case,but the fact is that when the first punch landed a criminal assault began and that a legally armed citizen in fear of his life defended himself with lethal force.
@Aye:
[my emphasis added above]
A gentleman would not engage in ad hominem abusive so as to avoid addressing my reasonable questions and my reasonable concerns. Nor would a gentleman act in bad faith and character assassinate me to effect a red herring. A gentlemen would offer reasonable answers to my questions, if he had worthy answers.
Among the possible answers to these questions are:
It was after dusk. Tell me, did Trayvon Martin’s dad or the girl friend put prudent restrictions on Trayvon Martin’s where-abouts?
No
Did they give him a curfew?
No
Did they explain to him that he was in a good neighborhood and that he would need to behave and be respectful of their neighbors?
No
Did they explain to him that some of their neighbors ran a neighborhood watch?
No
Given Trayvon Martin’s history of making poor choices did Trayvon’s dad set reasonable limits for Trayvon while he was staying away from home?
No
and
It was after dusk. Tell me, did Trayvon Martin’s dad or the girl friend put prudent restrictions on Trayvon Martin’s where-abouts?
Yes
Did they give him a curfew?
Yes
Did they explain to him that he was in a good neighborhood and that he would need to behave and be respectful of their neighbors?
Yes
Did they explain to him that some of their neighbors ran a neighborhood watch?
Yes
Given Trayvon Martin’s history of making poor choices did Trayvon’s dad set reasonable limits for Trayvon while he was staying away from home?
Yes
Sometimes good working class parents can be driven to their wits ends by juvenile delinquent teenage sons. Any reasonable interlocutor would know and concede as much. In this particular case I don’t know the answers. My questions and considerations are worthy and meaningful nonetheless. Perhaps young Trayvon was out of control. Perhaps Trayvon was bi-polar and off his meds. It is likely that one can only guess until autopsy results are released. I understand the helpless suffering of good working class parents who lose a love one to out of control behavior or to mental illness.
Nonetheless my questions are meaningful and made in good faith. It’s too bad you have chosen to respond to me with no small amount of malice and bad faith. It speaks poorly of your advocacy for Trayvon Martin.