Over There On The Horizon, It’s A Storm Waiting To Destroy America

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Yes, without a doubt we need to defeat Obama or kiss America’s freedoms and wealth goodbye.

Celebrity status is foremost on the minds of Americans; we are obsessed with the best actors, the best sports teams, the best athletes, the best schools, the best social circles, the best hair, and eventually we worry over the most trivial, like the best pizza delivery boy.

All of it matters less than a boot full of warm piss, we have an impending disaster on our hands and no one in Washington wants to be honest about our perilous position.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW5IdwltaAc[/youtube]

There is no choice, we must defeat Obama, but Romney must own up to the impending disaster. We know our legislators want to pretend everything is going smoothly, so it is a waste of time to expect them to tell the truth or make the unpopular moves to save the country. Romney is our only hope; yet if he is another typical Ivy League dilettante with lots of prestige, good hair, and minimal talent, it is all over but the shouting.

Don’t tell me about saving businesses and the Olympics, money and power can carry you through many disasters. The Kennedy Clan has proven that many times.

Personally, I’d prefer a man who wore a work shirt and knew how to fix things with his hands and his mind. We have suffered enough with phony eggheads climbing down from the ivory towers of academia. We need a bunch of problem solvers, but all we have is Mitt and he is a hell of an improvement over Obama.

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@retire05: Hopefully, they are all Democrats! They can all go to California.

@Randy:

Randy, the left has to try to make Texas look bad because states like California and New York are such disasters. Yeah, its great to live where the weather is balmy, but only if you can afford it. And most people cannot afford what California has to offer. Yet Dr. Bubba Larry would have you believe that high income earners are more than willing to take money from their families in order to pay the high cost of living in California just for the privilege of living there because well, you know, California is just so damn wonderful.

What kind of moron is willing to cover the California high cost of living, taking money that could be spent on your family?

Hi Retire:

You seem to have a need not only to prevail in a political debate, but to insult your debate opponents on a personal level. I won’t be replying to your comments in the future.

– Larry

@Aqua: #52,

Once upon a time you could make a decision on your own migration based on, “Where do I want to live, plant roots, and raise a family?”

These stats you’ve posted provide a helpful view on what has occurred across the Nation – – Forced migration from government overburden and ineptitude.

While larry is intelligent, he is your typical liberal. By that I mean he has no grasp of reality when it comes to politics and he is not capable of seeing reality.
He frequently dismisses “experts” that don’t agree with him. He likes to say,” …no credible expert…” Apparently he thinks credible means they agree with him.
It’s also what you call an appeal to authority. It’s a tactic used by those with a very weak position.
He also has an obssession with tax cuts. No matter what proof you present that proves him wrong, he sees them as bad and will return time after time to make the same argument over and over.

Let us review his failed predictions on obama and the economy.
Obama will govern from the center
Obama will mostly pick moderates for his administration
The GOP will pay for talking down the economy when it comes roaring back in a year or two

Yet none of the above will sway him from voting for obama.

@openid.aol.com/runnswim:

You can parse it anyway you want (I insulted you, waaaaaaahhhhh), but if you are insulted by being called “Dr. Bubba Larry”, you obviously are one of the most thinned skinned people to every exist. Get over yourself. And as far as having a need to prevail in a political debate, no, that’s not it; I just have no use for those who prevent false “facts”, using left wing sources, to pad their opinions as you did.

The fact is that you cannot support your claims about the utopian state of California compared to the dire straits you want to portray Texas as being in when I take non-partisan examples from links like the U.S. Census Bureau, InflationData.com and others. You based your opinion on crack pots like Paul Krugman and ran with them.

People are fleeing California in droves to get away from liberal “political debates” and policies that continually fail. Your state is bleeding, people, jobs and wealth, and you can’t seem to understand why. Perhaps it is those like you who support the actions that come out of Sacramento that is turning a once wonderful state into a national basket case that will have to look to the taxpayers in the other 49 states to bail it out. When a delta smelt takes priority over the welfare of humans and the State of California sits idly by and allows it to happen, you have a problem. When you allow the greenpeaceniks to run your state, causing utility bills to sky rocket, you have a problem. Frankly, I would be perfectly happy if the State of Texas refused to send you one more kilowatt of electricty when you have the ability to create your own but won’t because some damn cactus might get run over. The NIMBY attitute in California has ruined your state for those that might have wanted to live there.

So watch as your population continues to decrease and your tax burden increases, because someone has to pay for all those feel-good programs.

@Hard Right:

The best gauge of where the migration movement is can be obtained by going to UHauls website.

The cost of renting a 20′ truck that holds the furniture from a 3 bedroom home is this:

Los Angeles to Houston – $1,459.00

Houston to Los Angeles – $1,003.00

UHaul sets its rates by the requirement to take a vehicle back to another state if the migration from one is greater than the other. UHaul does not leave rental vehicles in states where there is no demand.

http://michellemalkin.com/You can see Romney’s speech at the Clinton Global Initiative here. A darn good plan if he is allowed to implement it. We tried doing something similar in Iraq, but the State Department and USAID went in another direction.

@retire05: #59,

. . . . Brilliant telltale of broader socioeconomic realities. Good one.

Hi Hard Right,

Just a couple of clarifications. Firstly, unlike many contributors to this blog, I never dismiss objective data or a good argument, simply because the link is to a conservative source, such as the American Thinker or whatnot. Likewise, I don’t believe I have ever dismissed an argument, simply because it was made by a non-“authoritative” source. But you (and a great many others) are constantly writing things like “you are just regurgitating liberal talking points” (as opposed to actually addressing the data or argument), or “you can’t believe David Brooks, he’s not a true conservative,” or “well, that’s from the New York Times, and you can’t trust anything they write.” I never say things like this and I never use this type of an argument. I do my best to address facts with facts and argue directly to the point of contention, as opposed to trying to side-step the issue by saying “oh, that’s just the same old conservative rubbish,” or whatever.

What you are probably referring to is my challenge, which neither you nor anyone else has ever accepted, to wit: find a single reputable and credible economist who has ever defended the proposition that any modern US tax cut has ever paid for itself by generating sufficiently increased economic activity to make up for the revenue lost to the tax cut. Before Retire05 and I got off on our little state pride sidetrack, this was the issue which I was discussing and debating, with Aqua and Mata.

You are perfectly welcome to accept the challenge. Find someone whom you think is credible (note that I didn’t demand a Harvard or U of Chicago PhD; simply a credible economist, who makes specific arguments, supported by specific data). Show us the link. Then we can have a useful discussion.

With regard to my allegedly false predictions concerning Obama, he did, indeed, try to take a centrist approach. His economists and others on the Left, such as Krugman, were suggesting a trillion dollar stimulus, with virtually all new spending. The GOP was countering with a $500 billion stimulus, mostly as tax cuts. He ended up with $750B, including about $250B in tax cuts. He’s still getting pilloried by Krugman and others for this compromise.

With regard to health care, people like me wanted Medicare for all. At a bare minimum, we wanted a public option. What we ended up with is a Heritage Foundation health care plan, endorsed by Grassley, Dole, and Gingrich, and put into effect, at the state level, by Romney.

Dodd-Frank was also heavily watered down.

On National Defense, he didn’t close GITMO, he killed Bin Laden, he kept the Bush time table on Iraq withdrawal, he kept on Gates as Defense Secretary, he markedly stepped up the drone attacks and decimated Al Qaeda leadership.

So, yes, on the most important issues, by any objective measure, he did govern as a moderate Democrat.

With regard to the economy, I was wrong with respect to the time it would take for there to be a full recovery, but this was because I, along with everyone else, didn’t realize at the time how bad things really were. For example, by the time the first dime of stimulus money was spent, unemployment was already around 9%; so, obviously, it’s been a huge gotcha game the GOP has been playing to point out that the Obama administration forecast that unemployment wouldn’t rise above 8%.

My general point wasn’t entirely incorrect, however. Romney has based his whole campaign around putting the so-called economic albatross around Obama’s neck, but the majority of voters aren’t buying this and do give Obama credit for doing what was possible to prevent things from being worse. Romney is going to have to come up with something other than the economic argument to pull this thing out, at this point.

I’m impressed with some of Romney’s recent interviews. I’m looking forward to seeing his speech given at the Clinton Global Summit. I do think that the whole thing will ultimately come down to the debates.

– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA

Hard Right
if openid.aol .com/runnswim said
OBAMA WILL PICK MODERATE, I SAY, HOW COME
HE PICKED AN AMERICAN TALIBAN FOR A HIGH PROFILE SECURITY JOB,
THAT NEWS CAME FROM FOX A COUPLE PF DAYS AGO.

Larry and Randy, Michelle Malkin has the transcript for Romney’s Clinton Initiative speech already available.

Larry: What you are probably referring to is my challenge, which neither you nor anyone else has ever accepted, to wit: find a single reputable and credible economist who has ever defended the proposition that any modern US tax cut has ever paid for itself by generating sufficiently increased economic activity to make up for the revenue lost to the tax cut.

Larry, your challenge is an absurd and impossible request. What you are asking is for credible economists to pull revenue data out of thin air, based on assumptions that the revenue stream would remain unchanged or growing, despite tax policy changes. When they figure “revenue lost”, they are assuming everything remains status quo from a past revenue income, and carrying that forward into the future.

This, of course, is just pie in the sky. The reason tax policies are required is to stimulate declining economic activity which is already going to negatively affect the status quo revenue stream. In a failing, distressed economy, and without any changes to taxes, the revenue stream is going to decline. i.e., you couldn’t take revenue receipts for 2004-2006, and assume they would have been the same for 2008-2010 for calculation purposes. Yet this is what you are asking be done.

Which brings me right back to that milking of an undernourished cow analogy, yet expecting the milk yield to be consistent. If you don’t start feeding it, your milk flow will decline and cease. Now you are issuing a challenge for how much milk you’ll lose if you don’t feed the cow, and arguing that loss will be based on the milk yield you were getting before the cow was undernourished?

I’m afraid if you want someone to take on this challenge, you’ll have to go in search of neon hands in shop windows for tarot card readers. Even at that, I wouldn’t give their responses the time of day… just as Obama’s figures for O’healthcare are as real of a prediction as who will win the State lottery.

openid.aol.com/runnswim
you know that you bring that attitude of you are the expert in the OBAMA politic issues,
and nobody in this CONSERVATIVE BLOG, CAN CHALLENGE YOU,
WITHOUT HAVING AN ANSWER OF SUPREME TRUTH CARRIER FOR OBAMA,
COULD IT BE BECAUSE IT’S FOR YOU A PERSONAL INTENT, ARE YOU AFRAID TO LOOSE THE GOODIES YOU ARE USE TOO, IF OBAMA AND HIS ELECTED DEMOCRATS ARE LETTING GO?
IT’S NOT FOR ME TO SAY BUT IT’S FOR YOU TO BE HONEST ENOUGH TO TELL WHY YOU CHALLENGE THIS FLOPPING ACES
BLOG OF CONSERVATIVES TELLING YOU THE REAL FACTS, EVEN IF IT’S CRUDE IT’S STILL FACTS,
BUT NO, YOU ALWAYS TAKE ON YOURSELF TO PROTECT YOUR DEMOCRATS AND OBAMA , BY NOT ALLOWING ANYONE TO DEBATE WITH THE FACTS YOU CANNOT SWALLOW AND FACE, WAS BIN WORTH IT?
IF HIS POLITIC IS GOOD, HOW COME IT DOESN’T WORK? IT’S NOT BUSH ANYMORE, IT’S OBAMA,
AND HE FAILED ON ALL HE DID, OH HE KILLED BIN, YA,
HOW MANY MILITARY WHERE SHOT IN THE BACK SINCE? HOW MANY WHERE THEY IN THE HELICOPTER BLOWN UP? HOW MANY DIED WITH THE AMBASSADOR TORTURE BEFORE TO EXPRESS SO MUCH HATE, WAS BIN DEATH WORTH IT?
MITT ROMNEY FOR AMERICA RECOVERY IN NOVEMBER,
IF YOU DON’T SEE THE DIFFERENCE OF CLASS AND ABILITY, IT MEAN THAT YOU HAVE THE PROBLEM, NOT THE SMART CONSERVATIVES HERE,

Hard Right, don’t let Larry b/s you. He can’t even get his numbers right; the Stimulus Bill was originally for $787 Billion, later increased to $813 Billion, not the $750 billion Larry cited, but what’s a few billion dollars among friends?

Also, he says he doesn’t dismiss sources like American Thinker yet he also relies on far left-leaning sources like the Austinist because he must think, I’m sure, that because it is a Texas website, well, hell, it must be telling the truth. Obviously he didn’t bother to fact check the article he linked. And then, of course, he dismissed Dr. Thomas Sowell, one of the best economists in our nation.

Now he says that he was wrong in how long our national recovery would take (well, duh?) but never bothered to mention that Obama was equally as wrong and Obama was a U.S. Senator with the full force of the data being provided by the Federal government at his fingertips. Oh, wait, didn’t Obama hire Christine Romer and some other clown to convince the nation that with the Stimulus Bill we would now have unemployment rates in the 5% range?

Now, to that “by the time the first Stimulus dime was spent, the unemployment rate was up to 9%”; well, the Stimulus Bill was in full motion by the time 2010 rolled around and we had an entire year of 9% unemployment rates as well as most of year 2011. The only reason that the unemployment rate is now at 8.1% is because the Obama BLS is dropping Americans from the work force rolls. Those people no longer exist when it comes to the BLS. I guess they all moved to Greece looking for a job.

When you send your earning to Washington, D.C., the only jobs that money creates are for bureaucrats to manage that money and redistribute it to those they think deserve it more than you do, and naturally, all those “shovel ready” jobs we were told existed. When you are allowed to keep even $50 more of your own money, you are going to spend that money buying goods and services, and there will be workers required to provide those goods and services to you. Instead of landing with a big thump in D.C. that extra $50 begins to circulate in our economy, and the taxes charged on those goods and services more than make up for any increase in federal income tax the left wants to impose on the wealthy (did you know if you make $200K a year you are now considered wealthy by the Obama administration?). It ain’t rocket science, it’s just plain common sense.

One other point; when people are allowed to keep more of their earnings, they are more prone to save money for their senior years. That, in turn, reduces the burden on government entities to take care of seniors. But hey, we must punish those who might retire early and open up a job for a young family man, so the government punishes anyone who takes money out of the IRA by charging an extra 10% in federal tax until they are 55. Ain’t that just great?

@ilovebeeswarzone:

He was very wrong about where obama would govern from. We tried to tell him. Heck, we are still trying to tell him!

Retire, many of us tried to tell him how bad the economy was and why. He didn’t listen to the first part then, and still denies the whys now.
He claims he has never dismissed a source because they weren’t an authority, but he most certainly has. He simply does it beforehand. He makes his “credible” comment to support his arguement, like he did in post 21. So if said “economist” or “expert” doesn’t meet with his criteria? They aren’t credible. Does he even see that he is basically saying that if he doesn’t agree it’s garbage? Nope.

@openid.aol.com/runnswim:

he killed Bin Laden, he kept the Bush time table on Iraq withdrawal, he kept on Gates as Defense Secretary, he markedly stepped up the drone attacks and decimated Al Qaeda leadership.

Not true on OBL or decimating AQ’s leadership. The SEALS killed OBL and various elements of our military and CIA decimated AQ’s leadership in the Afghanistan theater. Bush’s build up with drones enabled Obama to have the assets to authorize the increase in drone strikes. Judging from the events of the last two weeks in the ME, I’d say AQ is alive and well in that part of the world. Trying to imply complete victory against them at this point is jumping the gun.

Madonna say vote for that f….g OBAMA, she is surownded
by the BLACK PANTHER DANCERS,, SHE SAY NOW THAT S..T

Hard Right
and what is insulting is he demand the CONSERVATIVES TO GET HIM A LINK TO AN ECONOMIST,
WHY IS THAT, HERE ARE THE ECONOMIST WHO KEEP TELLING HIM FACTS, HE DOESN’T TAKE THE WORDS OF THIS POST AND BLOGGERS WHY DEMAND AN OUTSIDER, HE WANT MORE PROOF,
HE TAKE PEOPLE HERE FOR LIARS ,LIKE THE DEMOCRATS DO,
THERE IS MORE TRUTH COMING FROM HERE THAN WHAT THE GOVERNMENT TELL THE PEOPLE,

Hi A. Vet:

The Seals would never have had the chance, had Obama not pledged to move heaven and earth to get Bin Laden, and made it a top priority, with the intelligence and material assets to support the location and execution of the mission. Probably the single person deserving of the largest share of the credit is the anonymous female intelligence operative who directed the effort to track Bin Laden down. Somehow, I think that, in contrast to the Seals and the Obama White House, this unsung hero (the intelligence operative) will not reveal any of her secrets.

The strategic decision to dramatically increase the usage of drones, American leftist and world opinion be damned, was simply offered as an example to support my contention that, in the most important aspects of his Presidency, Obama has governed as a moderate Democrat, and not as a radical Leftist, as he is continuously depicted on this blog.

My statement is that Obama has decimated the Al Qaeda leadership. This is a true statement. However, long time readers of this blog may or may not recall that I often referred to terrorists as the world’s most renewable resource and that you can’t ever defeat them by killing and capturing them, as new ones will emerge as the old ones are eliminated.

Personally, I think that we’ve made our point in doing a real fine job of kicking some Islamic butt, which seems to have been the thinking behind the Asian land wars. The most effective thing we ever did to prevent another 9/11 was to put locks on the cockpit doors. I personally think that the most effective way of defending ourselves against Islamic Jihad is to just let that part of the world stew in its own juices and put the saved treasure and manpower assets into intelligence, port, border, and immigration security, and the like.

We had to “do” Libya, to keep up our side of the NATO alliance with Britain and France. They helped out when we asked them with respect to military actions which we initiated. We couldn’t have turned them down when they asked for our help — particularly when the likes of John McCain were screaming that we needed to get in there.

However, …

It’s not just that no good deed goes unpunished, over there. It’s that no deed — of any kind — goes unpunished. I think that Japan has an excellent mid-East foreign policy, which we would do well to emulate.

– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

Larry, Obama’s entire “centrist” legacy cannot be lumped into one assessment. INRE prosecuting the now defunct “war on terror”, he has held with many of Bush’s policies I will not deny. Stepping up the drone attacks, which are far less forgiving for collateral damage, was a poor diplomatic choice. Add the deaths of Pakistan military and the encroachment of US forces for the UBL raid, and the result is that our relations with Pakistan, who became a quasi-ally under Bush, are now strained and returning to pre Sept 11th status.

To his credit, he followed the Bush/Iraq withdrawal SOFA plan. Not because he wanted to, but because he was unable to negotiate an acceptable plan. I have no problem with that.

Afghanistan? The only legitimate war he believed in? Has thoroughly mucked up that one. A half hearted surge and ineffectual dealings with all the players. No kudos to Obama on Afghanistan.

Then there’s the reality that former US quasi-allies – Egypt and Libya – are now moving towards the enemies list rather than friends. No surprise since a US POTUS treated allied despot leaders as enemies, trading them for new enemies who will not be cooperating with the US or Israel in the future. I’ve said it here before, and echoing Mark Levin. The purpose of US foreign policy is to benefit US interests. Trading allies in HUMINT, even were they despots, just so one can bask in the glow of Muslim elections, does not benefit the US. I personally don’t care about their human right, Sharia laws or whether they vote. What I care about is do they tell us where the bad guys are, and keep their own militants reined in.

Israel? Our strongest ally and a nation State that is a gift that never stops giving for tech advancements and intel? The cold shoulder. He’s not much of a pal to the UK either. Germany thinks he’s a joke. So what do we have? Declining allies in the ME, strained ties between Western nations we didn’t have, and Israel giving this POTUS a wary eye. Nice move, Obama….

Perhaps you’ve forgotten, but I penned a post back in January 2009, inspired by you, on the gifted legacy of Bush to Obama.

Obama’s policies have effectively reversed Bush’s policies to make allies of these Muslim countries instead of enemies. Perhaps you want to pin ribbons on him for bombing pockets of rag tag AQ elements, while making enemies of the nation State where they are cowering?Me? His choices and methods are short sighted and have proven dangerous. I give him an F for Middle East and foreign relations.

When it comes to domestic economic issues, he is anything BUT centrist or moderate. That’s not even up for debate. You need only look at the Frum/CNN link you, yourself provided, where Obama says:

Purely free markets won’t be generating wage increases any time soon. There’s just too much low-wage competition out there. But we can do two things. As I outlined in my November 2011 speech in Osawatomie, Kansas, we can put more people to work in jobs funded by government contracts, where government can ensure high wages and benefits.

This is not centrist or moderate. This is pure liberal/progressive, expansive federal government economic policies plus increased debt/borrowing.

Lastly, emulate Japan? Does that mean you want the US to become 99% dependent upon foreign oil, 78% of which comes from enemies of the West? No thank you. Everything Japan does is for Japan’s strategic interest in keeping their oil supplies flowing uninterrupted. Because they are so dependent upon ME oil, and have no way out of that, they walk a fine line to appear neutral and cooperative. But the reality is, Japan is neither important enough economically, or strong enough militarily, to warrant more than a second glance from the ME. If Muslims wanted that island, they could seize it in a day… were not the US there to stand by and prevent such an acquisition.

The US is in no such position for oil dependency, and can vastly improve any dependence we have from unfriendlies and become self sustainable. Additionally, Japan is not the military force or superpower in the globe that the US is. When Japan is in trouble and needs a military, who will they be turning to? The US or the Muslim nations in the Middle East?

In closing, I will agree that we should just let the Muslim world continue their Muslim on Muslim violence unabated… then deal with what is left standing. Unfortunately, Obama doesn’t agree with us. Instead, your guy took a bad situation and made it worse by *not* remaining neutral, nor supporting US allied leaders (which he should have done in a diplomatic way, as Bush did with Musharraf and Pakistan). The fool that temporarily occupies the Oval Office instead threw his support behind all the wrong sides in the revolutions.

@retire05: I just spent a week in CA working. The folks were so nice and friendly. They greeted me with their horn after my turn signal wouldn’t allow me to change lanes. I needed to change lanes at least a mile before my exit. Other than that, they were friendly except for that cafe we stopped at on Highway 1.We were finally seated after staring at 50% empty tables. Got the menu 10 minutes later. Was asked for our drink order 5 minutes later. (Drinks didn’t come until the meal arrived. We did get to order dinner finally. I thought the waitress was playing video games on the computer she spent so much time there. Other than that, the service was ok!

Well, there was that little thing about paying more than a dollar a gallon then we pay in Colorado. I don’t think I ever saw so many taxes on a 1 week rental car. I guess it would have been nice if more people spoke English, but then that would have taken the fun out of everything.

The scenery was wonderful except for the weeds along the highway and the dead grass. The Franciscan Monasteries were great, but I think the Monks have given up on the current crop of natives. I must have had a good time, after all, it was Larry’s California!

Randy
super humor , I BET YOU HAD TIME TO COMMENT,
BYE

Hi Randy, You actually made me laugh out loud. Credit where credit is due.

Now, my older daughter is a third year med student at the U of Colorado (beautiful new medical campus built from scratch on the site of the old Fitzsimons Army Medical Center); so I’ve had some considerable experience with your turning ever bluer state. You’ve got some truly world class mountains (as do we), though, regrettably, no ocean — shucks, even Texas has a bit of an ocean, albeit lacking in surf. Also, your state has a commendable devotion to physical fitness. Only there does seem to be something in that famous Rocky Mountain water (the stuff which has gone into many a Coors I’ve consumed) which brings out the Postal in people.

– Larry W/HB

@retire05: Well to top off your comments, California can destroy miles of tortise habitat to install solar collectors that will never pay for themselves. They will fine an oil company for killing 1 migratory bird whil installing hundreds of wind machines that kill thousands of birds. They critize a department of wild life official for going to another state and killing a mountain lion legally. Then there was the really smart idea of limiting the amount whole sale energy suppliers can charge to consumers forcing them all out of business. California and the lefties like Larry deserve each other.

On yes, Larry… why not add the New York Times’ take on Obama’s slow Middle East learning curve to the mix. More simply put? Even the Old Grey Lady agrees that Obama’s the walking poster child on how to make enemies, and turn friends into acquaintances.

@ilovebeeswarzone:

Larry is determined to stay in his fantasy world and there is nothing we can do to convince him otherwise. obama has governed from the far left, but larry isn’t capable of seeing that. A shame really.

@MataHarley:
I think Larry is a lost cause, Mata. He actuaklly thinks obama has governed from the center. Wish I had blinders like that. Then I could ignore politics altogether.

Well, HR…. “center” is a place that depends upon one’s perspectives. i.e. someone like VT’s Bernie Sanders sees traditional liberals as “center”. But you just can’t put everything Obama into one neat little package. On foreign policy, you might consider him to the right of Bush with his relentless drone war. Domestic economics, far left. Relationships with Euro and Muslim nations? No where. As the NYTs article I linked, which actually rakes Obama over the coals for not fomenting influential relationships (as Bush did), Obama is just a “zero” rating. Not left, right or center. Mostly just MIA and detached.

You know it has to be bad when MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough – left leaning RINO – defends the NYTs criticism of Obama’s foreign policy.

“I’m not sure what your criticism is,” Brzezinski said.

“My criticism is that he hasn’t done the job that a commander-in-chief needs to do,” Scarborough replied.

“So he’s weak on foreign policy?” Brzezinski added. “You’re really going to say that?”

Scarborough immediately dismissed Brzezinski’s defense of Obama, and pointed out that even the liberal-leaning New York Times was willing to criticize his diplomatic abilities.

“Mika, I didn’t say that,” Scarborough shot back. “If you’re going to jump in to try to defend a defenseless president, please get it right. What I’m talking about right here is what this New York Times is writing, he doesn’t build personal relationships. That’s hurt us in Washington. It’s why we have gridlock in Washington and it’s why we have a mess in the Middle East. Whether you’re talking about Bill Clinton, the guy who was the master — he was the master, Bill Clinton. George H.W. Bush. They weren’t afraid to talk to other politicians and leaders in the way that built relationships. So, when there was time of crisis, you know what?”

@MataHarley:

I’m talking domestic economics. Larry seems to think obama is a centrist despite the mountain of evidence to the contrary.
It’s people like larry that show me it doesn’t matter how educated or intelligent someone is, because when it comes to politics, common sense disappears for ulterior reasons. In his case it’s not sinister reasons, just ego driven.

Hi All, I hope you can understand how I can’t possibly keep up with everything everyone writes. I mean, go over to the Daily Kos or whatever and try it out for yourself sometime. Convince the mob that they are wrong and you are correct. So I have to be selective. I answer what interests me most and in the time I have available. With respect to Obama governing as a moderate, that’s exactly what he’s done, as I’ve explained. How he actually governs and what he believes in his heart of hearts are probably different things. What do you suppose is in Romney’s heart of hearts? What’s in Ryan’s heart of hearts and how do you square that with some of the stuff he’s saying on the stump?

Stimulus: Compromise with the conservatives
Health Care: Total cave to the conservatives
Financial regulation: Major compromises
War on terror: Mata said it — to the Right of Bush, and I agree.

I’m not going to debate the wisdom of the latter more than I have already. We just go around and around on that. I’ve generally been in favor of just leaving the Mid-East alone, as I just explained. But it’s folly to claim that we’d be any better off than we are now with any other approach, strategy, and tactics. No one knows what would have happened, had we tried to prop up any of the former Arab dictators. One thing is for sure, we’d have alienated Right (e.g. McCain) as well as Left and we’d have alienated our entire Atlantic Alliance, and we’d have been on the wrong side of history, as we were when we intervened in Iran in the first place to install one of the first of the great secular Mid-Eastern dictators (the Shah). But no one can assert with any degree of informed confidence whatsoever how the events of the Arab Spring or recent unrest may have been altered for the better with any specifically different policy.

P.S. Mata (#64). That’s a bit of a cop out. I can come up with a sizable number of economists with bona fide conservative credentials who have looked at the totality of available evidence and who have concluded that modern era (since Kennedy) tax cuts haven’t paid for themselves and that they cost the treasury money and contribute to the debt load. This is, in addition, a very ordinary claim. On the other hand, the claim that tax cuts generate more revenue than they lose is an extraordinary claim, for which there is no proof at all and for which I have been unable to find a real economist (as opposed to a political blogger) who has tried to make a serious case for it.

The only reason that voodoo economics still exists is that it’s politically popular to cut taxes, while it’s political suicide to raise taxes (ask Walter Mondale; ask George HW Bush). It’s very easy to defend something which feels good, and it’s very difficult to defend something with hurts.

– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

Larry: P.S. Mata (#64). That’s a bit of a cop out. I can come up with a sizable number of economists with bona fide conservative credentials who have looked at the totality of available evidence and who have concluded that modern era (since Kennedy) tax cuts haven’t paid for themselves and that they cost the treasury money and contribute to the debt load.

Larry, I don’t buy the voodoo, parallel universe figures that the economists you mention are quoting either because it’s impossible to prove. But they have an economic/political agenda to support when they toss these figures around, so they do it willingly.

To absolutely know, you have to run parallel universes. One universe would roll merrily along without the tax cuts, and revenues would decline naturally with the economic fragility of the economy. The second universe is to take the actual revenue in reality, with the tax cuts, and find the difference between the real world, and the parallel universe imagined. But one figure is real and can be documented. The other is manufactured out of thin air as speculative guess work. When you only have one true number out of a three figure equation – A minus B equals C – you cannot come up with a definitive and completed equation… only a myriad of possibilities.

Perhaps that’s the reason you choose to word your “proof” as “have concluded”?

Maybe some buy that BS, just like they buy that polls of 1000 people being true representation of the positions of the nation. I don’t. Polls, like liars figures, are designed not as facts, but as influential propaganda that is supposed to guide the opinions of the masses. Nor would any credible economist – who deals in facts, and not liars figures to advance a talking point for their political philosophy – state any such definitive calculation as fact over speculative fantasy.

ADDED: To deviate from “gotcha” type voodoo math and into the real reason for tax policies – to improve a failing economy – a Forbes blogger stated the supply side equation best:

Lower marginal tax rates = higher economic growth = higher GDP = bigger tax base = higher tax revenues at the lower tax rates.

@openid.aol.com/runnswim:

You say that we would not have been able to get ObL had it not been that Obama pledged to move heaven and earth to get him, yet you do not mention that the information about the “courier” was obtained under Bush, the main reason that our intel could locate bin Laden, or the fact that Obama vaccilated on the decision to allow the SEALs to actually enact the raid, or the fact that our Navy SEALs would have been just as capable in their mission, no matter how was president.

You say that Obama has governed from the center, based on one thing, the killing of Osama bin Laden. Yet, there is no doubt Obama’s domestic policy is farther left than any president in our history, and if you deny that, you are truely wearing blinders. But then, I suspect you agree with his leftist agenda domestically.

Your claim that Obama has decimated the al Qaeda leadership, yet the most dangerous of that leadership, Ayman al Zawahiri is still very much alive. Al Zawahiri was the defacto leadership of Al Qaeda, even when bin Laden was still alive. Bin Laden was considered the “religious” leader, but al Zawahiri is equally as dangerous. Also, you fail to note that an entire series was done in the British press about how AQ is regrouping in Syria and making headways into taking over the opposition to Assad. And Syria has nukes.

Unfortunately, your thinking is based on considering John McCain “right” based on one thing only, McCain’s foreign policy stance, when McCain is more left of center than “right.” As to propping up Arab dictators, you dance with them that brung you, and those like Mubarak prevented what we are seeing now in Egypt, which is a prime example of Obama’s failed Middle East policy.

Larry, you wanted someone credible that could argue that tax cuts actually generated more tax revenue. Now, I know you will parse the term “modern” you used, but it has been done. And not just by the United States.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/325126/truth-about-tax-rates-thomas-sowell

His article is just a starter and should set you on your own enlightenment journey, unless, as I suspect, your mind is so locked shut as to dismiss someone who has dealt in Economics for almost his entire life. Take particular note of the quote of Keynes in the article. Keynes, whose economic philosply has been bastardized by the left.

And Dr. Sowell IS an economist.

@openid.aol.com/runnswim:

The Seals would never have had the chance, had Obama not pledged to move heaven and earth to get Bin Laden, and made it a top priority, with the intelligence and material assets to support the location and execution of the mission.

That mission was ongoing before Obama took office. OBL’s demise was only a matter of time. As I’ve stated here numerous times before, Obama deserves credit for authorizing the mission (which is perhaps what you meant and something I would agree with you on) but he does not deserve credit for killing him. That honor goes to SEAL Team 6. They would probably be the most surprised people on earth to find out that Obama rather than they, risked their lives when they went into that compound in Pakistan and pulled the trigger.

Stimulus: Compromise with the conservatives
Health Care: Total cave to the conservatives

Instead of a trillion he went with 750+ billion. Let’s not forget that it is in line with the progressive (aka leftist) belief that the governemnt is the driver of the economy and creator of jobs. Just because he agreed to a smaller amout that was also totally uneeded, he’s a centrist? Hardly. Oh, and spare us the claim that because some of the GOP supported it, it’s centrist. Republicans getting behind a leftist idea doesn’t make it any less of the left.

Obama caved to the Conservatives on healthcare? In what universe? Like I said, you are proof that intelligence does not equal an accurate or even coherent conclusion or POV when it comes to politics.

Hard Right
the thing is that OBAMA PUBLICLY TELL IT’S BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS DON’T WANT TO GIVE IN INTO HIS DEMANDS SO HE CAN’T HAVE THE MONEY HE WANT TO SO CALL GET JOBS,
THIS IS SO OUTRAGEOUS LY WRONG AND THE PUBLIC BECAME NEGATIVE OVER THE CONGRESS AND GAVE A PASS TO OBAMA THE LIAR SHIFTING THE BLAME TO CONGRESS, AND THE POLLS ON THE PEOPLE
BECAME TO DROP DOWN,
THE THING IS THE PEOPLE BELIEVE THE LIES OF OBAMA WITHOUT THINKING TO CHECK IT UP.
MITT ROMNEY IS A RICH GUY BECAUSE HE WORK FOR IT, AND HARD , HE REPRESENT THE SUCCESS OF WORK AND ACHIEVE WITH WHAT SKILLS YOU GOT,
AND OBAMA AND DEMS CANNOT TAKE IT, THE ARE AFRAID FOR THEIR JOBS ONLY,
AMERICA GET THOSE FAKERS OUT IN NOVEMBER

Bees, let us hope enough Americans wake up and vote for Mitt. It is disturbingly closer than it should be.

Hard Right
yes this is the projection only,
I’m betting on AMERICANS TO MAKE IT A LIE AGAIN,
SURELY THEY DON’T WANT TO BE FOOL TWICE ON A ROW.
AMERICANS, DO NOT DESERT YOUR COUNTRY,
VOTE FOR MITT ROMNEY, HE WON’T FOOL YOU.
GET THE DEMS LIAR OUT HE IS A NOBODY NOT WORTHY OF AMERICA, SEND HIM IN THE MIDDLE EAST, THAT’S WHERE HE BELONG, HE IS ANTI AMERICAN,

Hard Right
FOX REPORT IN FLORIDA THEY FOUND 800 FRAUD VOTES,
IMAGINE, HOW CORRUPT IT IS,
GOOD THAT THEY ARE CHECKING FOR IT,
I heard in the 2008 that OBAMA WON WITH THE SAME CORRUPT VOTES,
THEY FOUND IT ONLY AFTER HE WAS SITTING IN THE WH,
THEY WANT TO DO IT AGAIN.
THE FBI SHOULD BE CHECKING THIS TIME AND ARREST EACH TRAITOR,
AMERICA CANNOT AFFORD TO GIVE OBAMA 4 YEARS TO DESTROY AMERICA THIS TIME.

Hard Right
CLINTON IS COMING BACK TO GIVE SUPPORT TO OBAMA,
HE SAID A WHILE AGO THAT NO ONE, NOT HIM NOT OBAMA NOT ANY PRESIDENTS COULD HAVE FIX THE 2008 PROBLEM, WELL MR CLINTON,
WE ARE SURE THAT MITT ROMNEY WOULD HAVE FIX THE PROBLEM, AND NOT HAVE WASTED THESES FOUR YEARS CRYING AGAINST THE CONGRESS, AGAINST THE GOP, AGAINST THE TEA PARTY,
AGAINST AMERICANS, AGAINST THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION BEING IN HIS WAY,
OBAMA WAS HELP AND GIVEN EVERYTHING HE ASK, THINKING HE WOULD HAVE FIX SOMETHING,
AND NO BUDGET WAS MADE IN THESES YEARS,
YOU CAN BE SURE THAT MITT ROMNEY WILL MAKE A BUDGET, THIS IS WHAT YOU LEARN IN BUSYNESS, HE IS ACCUSED OF BEING DETACH BECAUSE HE IS RICH, OBAMA HAS SHOWN HOW DETACH HE IS THESES LAST YEARS, THE MOST DETACH PRESIDENT FROM AMERICAN DUTY
HE HAD TO DO, AND FAIL THERE AGAIN,
HE WAS ONLY INTERESTED IN THE MUSLIMS IN THE MIDDLE EAST, AND STILL IS,
HE JUST SEND HILLARY WITH 45 MILLIONS TO THE REBELS IN SYRIA TO PUT DOWN THE PRESIDENT AND GIVE POWER TO THE ALQAEDA LEADING THE REBELS.,
THIS IS NOT GOOD FOR AMERICA, AND FOR ANY FREE COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD,
IT SHOW HOW DANGEROUS TO KEEP OBAMA FOUR MORE YEARS,
HE NEED LESS THAN THAT TO FINISH THE DESTRUCTION OF AMERICA AS SHE WAS MEANT TO BE,
ALL THE AMERICANS WHO DIED AND THOSE WHO ARE CRIPPLE FOR AMERICA’S FREEDOM,
WOULD YOU AMERICANS MAKE IT DONE IN VAIN?
WAKE UP AMERICA, YOU HAVE THE POWER TO FIX THE PROBLEM WHICH OBAMA HAS MADE IN HIS TIME AS PRESIDENT, LOOK AT THE ECONOMY, LOOK AT THE DEBT YOU OWE NOW, BECAUSE OF OBAMA SPENDING SPREES, AND THINK OF THE SOLUTION IN FRONT OF YOUR EYES,
VOTE FOR MITT ROMNEY, AND BE SURE IS BETTER THAN BE WORRY, FOR THE FUTURE,