It’s ironic how events pry open the door to the truth.
A few days ago Barack Obama said it was a “local matter.”
” Our thoughts and prayers go out to Trayvon Martin’s family, but obviously we’re not going to wade into a local law enforcement matter,” Carney said. “I would refer you to the Justice Department and to local law enforcement at this point.”
Sensing the media tsunami building, Barack Obama decided to hang ten:
“If I had a son he would have looked like Treyvon,” Obama said shortly, addressing the victim’s parents. “I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness that this deserves and that we’re going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.”
Earlier this month a 13 year old white boy was attacked and set on fire by several black youths.
KANSAS CITY, Mo. — A 13-year-old Kansas City boy is back home after two teenagers poured gasoline on him and lit him on fire.
It happened Tuesday at the teen’s home on Quincy Avenue, just down the street from Kansas City’s East High School. The boy lives less than two blocks away from the school and was walking home when the attack happened.
Melissa Coon said her son turned from the school’s stadium onto Quincy Avenue and noticed two teenagers following him. She said the teens followed her son home and attacked him outside his front door.
“And they rushed him on the porch as he tried to get the door open,” she said. “(One of them) poured the gasoline, then flicked the Bic, and said, ‘This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, white boy’.”
Barack Obama had nothing to say about that attack.
What happened to Trayvon Martin is a terrible thing and exactly what happened needs to be investigated and justice must follow. But one has to presume that the white boy in Kansas City did not look enough like Barack Obama for the President to weigh in on that atrocity. Or do certain kinds of crimes matter more to Obama than do others? A pattern is emerging. When Henry Gates was arrested Obama declared that the white cop “acted stupidly” without the benefit of any facts. Obama’s Attorney General refers to “my people” instead of “us.” A certain Black Panther voter intimidation conviction is mysteriously dropped. Obama said this incident needs “soul searching” but the Kansas City attack apparently does not.
Someone can explain it to me. I find this disgraceful.
DrJohn has been a health care professional for more than 30 years. In addition to clinical practice he has done extensive research and has published widely with over 70 original articles and abstracts in the peer-reviewed literature. DrJohn is well known in his field and has lectured on every continent except for Antarctica. He has been married to the same wonderful lady for over 30 years and has three kids- two sons, both of whom are attorneys and one daughter on her way into the field of education.
DrJohn was brought up with the concept that one can do well if one is prepared to work hard but nothing in life is guaranteed.
Except for liberals being foolish.
This is a TV report from the night of the incidence.
Common Law stipulates all persons have a right to self protection meassured in arm’s length. “Arm’s Length’ is a variable based on body size; i.e., shorter people have shorter arm length thus more vulnerable to approach, provocation, assault. Unwelcomed approach within two arm’s length can be construed to be a threat and self defense measures justified. If, in fact, Zimmerman was out and about around his neighborhood as a vigilante is significant. Florida accepts and allows for neigborhood watch protections and for allows some unincorporated neighborhoods to hire their own private police.
As I said again, it comes from Eyewitness reports to the police. I am not claiming it is his car. There’s been two wtinesses physically out on the street at the time, one reporting a man in a red shirt on his back on the dirt being pummeled by a person in a black shirt. And as I said again, if you read, eyewitness reports can be cloudy and misleading (sometimes intentionaly). The problem here Mata is the Police are not done with witness statement collections in the housings around the beating location and that of the body’s final resting place. This is a muddled nightmare of a case for police and the Chief has stepped down due to gaffees and blunders on his part (aka Zimmerman was not extensively questioned and allowing Martin’s father’s story to change multiple times.)
And Mata please re-read about my Provoking issue I’ve responded back to Retired05. I never claimed Martin to be doing anything illegal, but pointed out that Zimmerman may have intentionally provoked Martin into a stance. We’re coming to find out that ZImmerman had a checkered past as looking Paranoid to some of his neighborhood. And the kid’s been in trouble with School, being suspended for 10 days for something that the Police, the School and the Media has yet to fully disclose. You only get this type of 10 day suspension from his Miami High School for doing something very exterme, cases being Assault or sexual assault of another student/staff, or vandalism vauled damage of about 500 or more. The kid’s emotionally stressed, not doing anything illegal and when you’ve got someone with paranoid tendencies (if true) hounding such a kid then things are not going to turn out rosey and clean. It’ll be bloody, it’s human nature.
Mata,
You keep using that word “pursuit”. And that other word “aggressor”
I do not think they mean what you think they mean…
Aggressor is the word used in the Stand your ground text, Tsgt Ciz, which has everything to do with why Sanford PD just gave Zimmerman a pass. Pursuit, chasing.. however you want to describe Zimmerman’s (or Martin’s, if you’re of that inclination) is a threatening situation that may, or may not, lead to a situation that fits the “imminent peril of death or great bodily harm”. Certainly if I am walking down the street, and you chase after me and are obviously threatening enough for me to believe I am in such imminent danger, I have a possible defense. Depends upon those circumstances.
In this case, it wouldn’t look good for Zimmerman. He was armed with a 9mm, and had no law enforcement authority for his aggression or pursuit. Martin was unarmed.
Mata, until the address of the fiance is given, which has not been to my knowledge, you have no way of ascertaining that Martin was, in fact, returning to his father’s fiance’s home. This will all come out in the Attorney General’s investigation.
Basically, you are making claims you cannot support based on information from a very, VERY liberal publication in Florida. And you seem to be making up your mind that Zimmerman is guilty of killing a black 17 year old. That, Mata, is the true action of a “vigilate” who forms opinions WITHOUT possessing all the facts.
As usual, retire05, you let your personal hatred foe me overcome your reading ability. (not to mention your Mapquest prowess… LOL) This isn’t about exonerating or convicting Zimmerman. Its about whether Sanford police were derelict in their investigations of justice.
In this case, I think that Zimmerman’s claim of self defense, using the FL Stand Your Ground law, are questionable given the circumstances. Apparently, the penner of that legislation agrees with me. Let the AG offices and a 3rd party do some oversight and get to the bottom of it. That is what I ask. But it’s no slam dunk that Zimmerman is the innocent babe in this story.
Why do I care? Because using careless loopholes and exploiting that law will make a political point that we cannot have laws to defend ourselves. So if Zimmerman is abusing it, I want his ass gone.
What Difference does it make? Mata, do you understand that the kid’s been suspended from School (maybe wrongfuly so) and highly stressed by that fact? A teen’s mind is not the same as a grown adults, it’s clouded by raw emotions and horomnes and prone to picking a, “Fight” over the “Flight” tendency in teen males when badgered by another male. And if Zimmerman intetionally provoked Martin into a fight, then things are very messy for ZImmerman.
Martin apparently had been suspended from school for a week. If so, it’ d be nice to know why.
Additionally, Zimmerman’s gun had fired one shot, yet no new round was chambered, meaning something had interfered with the normal operation of the slide, like someone grabbing it.
Two eyewitnesses have Martin pounding Zimmerman.
More to come tomorrow.
@retire05:
Yes, indeed it can be retire05. It’s either labled under Disturbing the Peace laws, Verbal Assault, Verbal Abuse, or Provocational laws. You can not verbally assault another person, and expect to be free of the outcomes of any physical retribution these days in a digital society. Be it written verbal assault, aka Facebook with the various cases around bullying or direct face to face altercations.
@Mr. Irons:
Provide the Kansas State Statute that allows me to kick the shit out of you if you call me a name.
retire05
i just heard that they put a 10000 price on ZIMMERMAN WHICH IS IN HIDING, AND ONE SAID THEY MIGHT ARREST HIM, AT FOX NEWS
BYE
Mata,
I still see you inserting more than is justified into the confrontation.
One cannot be pursued unless one first flees. Are you then asserting that Martin fled?
Followed is NOT pursued. It’s followed.
One can make a solid argument that one of the principle reasons for the SYG law was to empower citizens to “follow” criminals and report on their activities and locations to the police. If in the course of “following” a criminal, the criminal turned and attacked the citizen, then the citizen would have the protecction from prosecution to defend them self from harm for doing what is in itself NOT A CRIME but a PUBLIC SERVICE.
Unless and until you are someone else can establish that George initiated the physical violence, then all evidence suggest that Tray was in fact the aggressor, acting out against someone who dared to monitor his activities in a gated community.
It may well swing the other way, to be clear. But so far, in all that I’ve seen, there is no reason to think it will or to believe the police and the DA got it wrong.
And I believe that *that* is exactly what the race baiters and the leftist media and the Oblamer administration (but I repeat myselfx3) are all hoping will happen. Then they can conflate this into some national spectacle and maybe.. just MAYBE, Owebama can use that fancy new Martial Law Executive Order he just issued…
Mata, please, don’t flatter yourself that you hold enough importance for me that I would expand the energy required to muster “hate” for you. Frankly, you are throwing out a hypothesis and trying to see if it will stick. And yes, you think you have the case all figured out, but it is simply your opinion and unless you wrote the Stand Your Ground law in Flordia, or have a Florida law license that gives you the right to form an opinion on the SYG laws, whatever you have to say is moot.
You seem to think you hold more importance to people who post here than you do. Perhaps it is time to get that ego of your in check.
Funny you should mention that…. But the FL legislator who wrote that law – Rep. Dennis Baxley – penned an editorial three days ago that happens to state that Zimmerman is not entitled to defense under the law he wrote.
… doh
@MataHarley:
I agree, but I am sensing Richard Jewell II.
Here you go Retire05:
http://www.missouri-criminal-defense.com/kansas-assault.htm
Here you go Retire05:
http://www.missouri-criminal-defense.com/kansas-assault.htm
@THE SOOTHSAYER, the Twin Lakes complex neighborhood watch parameters have already been addressed. Not only did that neighborhood have a neighborhood watch program that wasn’t recognized by the National Sheriff’s Association, but that the complex’s representative that helped set up that watch program – Wendy Dorival – had stressed that using a gun in that neighborhood watch role was out of the question.
Zimmerman had a concealed carry. No problems with him doing so. However the repercussions in using that firearm during a “neighborhood watch” role must still also be considered.
Sorry for the double post, wireless router went bonkers. As for my point, Retire05: I do not have to phyiscally touch you to be liable of an assault charge in Kansas if I verbally threaten you in any medium. A name call is not the same as a provoking. If I called you Dirtbag, Willyknockers, or any other name with no direct threats on you, the Police will look at your report on me as either a prank or a waste of time.
Aka, “I’m going to kill you.” is a typical reaction to people who get into exchange of words, and in Kansas is enough to be considered a possible assault with intent to commit either manslaughter or First or Second Degree Murder. Now if I made the claim that I was going to attack or destroy something of yours, then a charge should be slapped on me even if I really didn’t have the intent to do so. If it was said it has to be taken serious.
Retire, you have battery and assault interchanged. In Kansas, and as in Florida, physical contact relates to a Battery charge. You do not have to make physical contact with the victim to have an Assault charge slapped on you.
And further proof of Assault doesn’t have to have physical contact: http://www.assaultandbattery.org/kansas/
This goes back to my stance that it is possible that Zimmerman may have provoked Martin into physical action. And if it is true, than ZImmerman should not be protected by the Stand Your Ground defense.
Facts from the city itself…finally.
Fellow Citizens:
There has been a lot of media attention to the
caused a flood of questions and strong emotions from within our community, the region
and nation. On behalf of the employees of the City of Sanford, Our deepest sympathy
and prayers go out to the family and friends of Trayvon Martin. As a father, I can only
image the pain Trayvon’s family must be going through. The City of Sanford is
committed to insuring that justice is served and, therefore, the City of Sanford has
contacted the United States Attorney General’s Office for assistance in this matter.
In an effort to continue to be as responsive as possible to the public seeking information on
the incident, I have asked Chief Lee to provide answers to some of the most frequently
asked questions regarding this matter. Below are his responses. Please understand that
since this is still an ongoing investigation, the Police Department is limited in what
information it can publicly release.
The men and women of the Sanford Police Department extend our heartfelt
sympathies to the Martin family. This is indeed a tragic situation. The death of
anyone due to violence, especially a 17 year old young man, is morally appalling. As
this incident has generated a lot of media attention, we wanted to provide answers to
some of the most frequently asked questions.
Why was George Zimmerman not arrested the night of the shooting?
When the Sanford Police Department arrived at the scene of the incident, Mr.
Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense which at the time
was supported by physical evidence and testimony. By Florida Statute, law
enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and
circumstances they had at the time. Additionally, when any police officer makes an
arrest for any reason, the officer MUST swear and affirm that he/she is making the
arrest in good faith and with probable cause. If the arrest is done maliciously and in
bad faith, the officer and the City may be held liable.
According to Florida Statute 776.032 :
776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use
of force.—
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is
justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action
for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law
enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance
of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance
with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have
known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the
term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or
prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the
use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the
person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the
force that was used was unlawful.
Why weren’t the 911 tapes initially released?
There are exemptions to the public records laws for active criminal intelligence and
for ongoing investigations. In this instance, the 911 calls made by neighbors in the
subdivision, and the non-emergency call made by Mr. Zimmerman are all key to the
investigation by Sanford Police Department. In consultation with the Office of the
State Attorney, the Sanford police department had decided not to release the audio
recordings of the 911 calls due to the ongoing investigation. Many times, specific
information is contained in those recordings which is vital to the integrity of the
investigation. At the time, it was determined that if revealed, the information may
compromise the integrity of the investigation prior to its completion. The 911 tapes
have since been released.
Why did Mr. Zimmerman have a firearm in his possession while acting in the
role of a neighborhood watch member?
Mr. Zimmerman holds a concealed weapon permit issued from the State of Florida.
He is authorized to carry the weapon in a concealed manner wherever Florida
Statute dictates. Neighborhood Watch programs are designed for members of a
neighborhood to be “eyes and ears” for police and to watch out for their neighbors.
They are not members of the Police Department nor are they vigilantes. Training
provided by law enforcement agencies to Neighborhood Watch organizations
stresses non-contact surveillance of suspicious situations and notifying police of
those situations so that law enforcement can respond and take control of the
situation.
Mr. Zimmerman was not acting outside the legal boundaries of Florida Statute by
carrying his weapon when this incident occurred. He was in fact on a personal
errand in his vehicle when he observed Mr. Martin in the community and called the
Sanford Police Department.
If Zimmerman was told not to continue to follow Trayvon, can that be
considered in this investigation?
Yes it will; however, the telecommunications call taker asked Zimmerman “are you
following him”. Zimmerman replied, “yes”. The call taker stated “you don’t need to do
that”. The call taker’s suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be
required to follow. Zimmerman’s statement was that he had lost sight of Trayvon and
was returning to his truck to meet the police officer when he says he was attacked by
Trayvon.
Why was George Zimmerman labeled as “squeaky clean” when in fact he has
a prior arrest history?
In one of the initial meetings with the father of the victim the investigator related to
him the account that Mr. Zimmerman provided of the incident. At that time the
investigator said that Mr. Zimmerman portrayed himself to be “squeaky clean”. We
are aware of the background information regarding both individuals involved in this
event. We believe Mr. Martin may have misconstrued this information.
What about media reenactments of the shooting incident?
Any media reenactments of the shooting incident are purely speculation. To date the
Sanford Police Department has not released any rendition of the events of the
evening to anyone other than the Office of the State Attorney. The renditions we
have seen are not consistent with the evidence in this case.
The Sanford Police Department has conducted a complete and fair investigation of
this incident. We have provided the results of our investigation to the Office of the
State Attorney for their review and consideration for possible criminal prosecution.
Although the Police Department is the target of the troubling questions, let me
assure you we too feel the pain of this senseless tragedy that has dramatically
affected our community. Therefore, as we move forward and strive to answer the
questions that are a point of controversy in the community, we ask for your patience,
understanding and assistance in getting the correct information to the community
We trust that this information is helpful to you.
Norton N. Bonaparte, Jr., ICMA-CM
City Manager
March 23, 2012
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Zimmerman_Martin_shooting.pdf
Nothing new there, Keyser. The Sanford PD has already said they were advised by prosecutors that they didn’t have enough to convict Zimmerman for manslaughter, so they backed out. Then again, it’s been what… a three week investigation they backed out of? Not very long to collect a lot of evidence.
THe only “renditions” we’ve been discussing here are the 911 call, a map that acclimates us to the neighborhood and 7-11 down the road, details that are found in the police report, media reports about both Zimmerman and Martin’s past, and why Martin was in Sanford at all, etc. Other than that, it’s trying to piece together some logic as to why we should assume that Martin turned aggressive, based only on Zimmerman’s testimony.
@Mr. Irons:
the key words here: “reasonable fear of immediate bodily harm”
If I call you an asshole, that is NOT a reasonable fear of bodily harm. If I follow you down the street, without talking to you, or making threatening gestures, that is NOT a reasonable fear of bodily harm.
Now, if I shout perjoratives at you, and make an attempt at bodily contact, like throwing a missed punch or a missed kick, that can be considered assault. The battery part comes in if I do bodily harm to you.
Legal eagle you are not.
@TSgt Ciz, you are not viewing the events thru the specific law evoked for Zimmerman’s defense. That is the only one that counts. And Zimmerman’s chasing, pursuit, following… whatever word you want to use… of Martin when he was doing nothing illegal has bearing on his defense using that law. If he provoked the confrontation by his aggressive moves towards Martin, the law is no defense.
That is the reason that the Sanford police should not have dismissed it so quickly. Thus, we end up with a perfectly good law now being thrown into the limelight and incorrectly characterized, not to mention lots of racial inflammation enroute.
@retire05… whatever. Archives reveal differently. Doesn’t matter that I provide links, documents, etc. If it comes from me, you toss it out. BFD, as far as I’m concerned. ta ta
If Trayvon Martin ran, I have absolutely no doubt that he could outrun the 250 pound Zimmerman.
So now the question is why did he decide to confront Zimmerman?
@MataHarley:
Mata, it’s going to be self-defense, period.
And people accuse me of making definitive statements? LOL Hey, drj… all I want is another 3rd party, looking it over more carefully. This is not the first time in Sanford PD’s history that they’ve slid over an “investigation” a bit more quickly than justice should demand. Once that 3rd party look-see is over, I’m good with whatever they pronounce.
Retire, even namecalling can be used to be slapped with Disturbing the Peace charge. Assault has already been explained. Now you’re just worming your way out of the pospect that one can’t be a jerk in society without facing repurcussions.
If you think you can go around just namecalling people and not expect some form of legal issues in public these days, wow.
And namecalling and trolling has come to be considered assault activities in certain States with the recent strings of Facebook legal cases over student suicides. So no, you’re not exactly ontop of the legal apex yourself.
@Mr. Irons:
Well, considering the fact that we are talking about Florida, Kansas laws, which are different, remain moot. What does FLORIDA LAW say? Has Florida, like many states, combined assault AND battery into one law where eminent danger of physical harm has to be proven?
Mata, deal with your ego problem on your own. I have no interest in it.
@MataHarley:
I’m totally good with that, Mata, but do you think Martin could not outrun Zimmerman?
Not sure what that question has to do with reality, drj. Wouldn’t even wager a guess. But I suppose my response would be, if you were just walking down the street, not doing anything illegal, and you were confronted with a guy like Zimmerman, packing, and following your butt, would you be inclined to defend yourself, or not?
You won’t like what Flordia law says about Disturbing the Peace, Assault or Battery Charges Retire. Just giving you a warning. You won’t be in the winning pot in that debate. Infact Florida’s Assault and Kansas Assault laws are almost exact mirrors. Now, for Disturbing The Peace, in Floridia you can be slapped with such a charge for tossing out namecallings and intentionally harrassing someone.
http://www.myfloridadefenselawyer.com/AssaultBatteryFL.html
http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/disturbing-the-peace.html
@MataHarley:
Besides, you do. 😉
retire 05
the witness who saw him yell for help said he was under the other and had bruises,the other was still alive
then, and that witness call and came back to look and zimmerman was on top, the other was shot dead,
that could tell us there was a struggle WHEN ZIMMERMAN BEING BEAT UP WAS LOOKING TO TAKE HIS GUN OUT AND SHOT HIM BEFORE THE OTHER GET HIS GUN THEN HE END UP ON TOP , or,,MAYBE THAT SHOT HAPENNED WHEN HE SUCCEED TO GET ON TOP ONE OR THE OTHER.
AND OR MAYBE THE SHOT HAPPEN WHILE THEY STRUGGLE TO GET THE GUN
@ilovebeeswarzone: Yes, Bees. I think we’re going to learn that there was a struggle for the gun.
@MataHarley:
That assumes he was brandishing, and if he were I’d run my ass off. The accounts have Zimmerman initially running and then standing down. So why did Martin return?
And what evidence do you have that Martin “returned” as opposed to being caught by a Zimmerman in pursuit, drj? We have no evidence that Martin was chasing Zimmerman, but we have Zimmerman, himself, admitting he was chasing Martin. And considering that Martin’s body was found away from where any car could be parked, we can safely assume that Zimmerman did not “stand down”, as instructed. Where do you get that idea?
drjohn
how about ZIMERMAN COMING BACK TO HIS CAR AND MARTIN SEE HIS POCKET NOT SHOWING BUT BIG ENOUGH TO MAKE HIM THINK HE HAS THE GUN, SO HE COME BACK FAST AND REACH FOR THE GUN AND THEY ARE STILL WHERE MATA SAID AND THE STRUGGLE BEGIN RIGHT THERE AND FOR WHO KEEP OR WHO TAKE THE GUN, ZIMMERMAN FALL DOWN OR THEY BOTH FALL DOWN MARTIN ON TOP
OF HIM STILL LOCK TOGETHER HANDS ON THE GUN STILL HALFWAY OUT OF POCKET, STILL STRUGGLING TO GET IT OUT AND AS IT COME ZIMMERMAN HAS A FINGER ON THE TRIGGER AND MANAGE TO ROLL ON TOP AND HIS FINGER PRESS THE TRIGGER OF THE GUN SHOOTING MARTIN
STILL STRUGGLING TO REACH IT OR EVEN HOLDING PART OF IT, so ZIMMERMAN would rightfully be innocent
@MataHarley:
I see your ego doesn’t allow for you to let others respond for themselves.
But according to your article. the Florida representative said:
“The facets of the castle doctrine deal with using force to meet force as an act of self-defense when in your home, in your car, on your property, or anywhere you are legally able to be.” Zimmerman had the legal right to be on the streets of his own gated community.
Also, the Representative stated some facts in error. He said “Mr. Zimmerman was clearly instructed by authorities to remain in his vehicle and to cease persuit of Mr. Martin.” That, Mata, is in fact, wrong, as can be determined by the 911 calls by Zimmerman and the statements of the Sanford PD dispatcher.
And shall I remind you of the Duke Rape Case? “Guilty” screamed the nation. Nevermind that the POS that made the accusations in now in jail for other charges and the young men, whose lives she tried to ruin, were found innocent.
Another example of the reality that if a link or fact comes from me, you choose to ignore it.
What did Rep. Baxley say, speaking *specifically* to this case and his law?
Checkmate…
@MataHarley:
Mata, the audio indicates that Zimmerman was chasing Martin. The operator says “we don’t need you to do that” and Zimmerman says “OK” and nothing suggests he continued on.
And I ask again- do you really believe that the 250 pound Zimmerman could catch the 140 pound Martin?
@ilovebeeswarzone: Bees, I do think there was a struggle for the gun and I think that Zimmerman reached for the gun as a last resort. It was his voice we hear on the 911 tape crying for help.
@MataHarley:
Which report shows Zimmerman in his vehicle? I have listened to them all and I do not know to which this could apply.
All accounts have Zimmerman patrolling in his SUV. His 911 call was either in his SUV, or when he exited his SUV. Hard to tell on the 911 call whether he was driving with the window down, or walking. Sounds more like the latter, but how can be sure. But there is no dispute that he had his vehicle during that evening.
@MataHarley: Bedtime. Night, hon. 😉
Sleep well, drj. Dream of new Oval Office decor.
DrJohn
yes, I BELIEVE IT, THAT’s why MARTIN DECIDE TO COME BACK, THAT IS TO GET THE GUN
AS ZIMMERMAN HAD HIS BACK TURN, MARTIN THOUGHT HE COULD TAKE HIS GUN,
BUT ZIMMERMAN REACT AS MARTIN TOUCH HIS POCKET CONCEALING THE GUN, AND SO ON AND SO ON
Mata,
Following is still not an act of aggression. It isn’t pursuit, it’s following. To a great degree it is the very reason for the SYG law to protect concerned citizens who are out and about in their neighborhoods so that they can feel safe in being the eyes and ears for the police.
It is equally, if not more likely, that Tray intended to lure George into the secluded path between the houses so that he could beat and rob him.
I simply can not fathom why you are so willing to put the black hat on Zimmerman and insist this kid is innocent. Look at his Facebook page. This is no dirty faced angel.
Still missing the point TSgt Ciz. Zimmerman’s defense, the Sanford PD refusal to press charges is based out Stand Your Ground. When you deliberately put yourself into a confrontation state, or harms way, with full knowledge, the law is not applicable.
???
My argument is that Zimmerman’s story is so questionable, given his documented behavior, that the investigation was cut off prematurely. And BTW, Zimmerman is no angel either. That’s not the point.
The point is whether Zimmerman is exploiting a law that I firmly believe in. In which case his manipulation, based on only his testimony and definitely not so clean cut, can cause serious damage to these laws on the books. I don’t know either party, therefore have no vested interest. But I do have interest in these laws, not suffering from political exploitation when abused.
@MataHarley:
Representative Baxley is wrong. The 911 tape clearly shows that the dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was following Martin and Zimmerman said he was and the dispatcher said “You don’t have to do that.”
No checkmate, girley. Just wrong facts presented by both you and Rep. Baxley.
Also, in relation to: “1231 Twin Trees and 2821 Retreat View Circle – the grassy area/pedestrain pathway between the houses where Martin’s body was found”
That line is NOT a pedestrian pathway; it’s a fence.
Give up chess. You suck at it.
uh… ahem
Wow… that sounds like a “great! We’d appreciate you doing that for us!”, or “that’d be helpful!” to me. /sarc
So now you want to play the liberal game of parsing words? Like because the dispatcher didn’t say “Do not do that, sir”, it was a nod of approval? I think it’s obvious to anyone with an open mind and normal thought processes that the dispatcher was saying “don’t do that”.
Look again on Google earth. It’s the same type of sidewalk way that runs thru the neighborhood, around the lake, the clubhouse pool, etc. And, of course, there’s the pesky detail that they are all 4.5 to 5 feet wide… big ass fence, eh? But that’s also a moot point. It is no where near a car, which Zimmerman had to voluntarily exit in order to follow Zimmerman. Thus Rep. Baxley’s words bear repeating, since you, yourself, demanded the opine of the bill’s writer/sponsor:
Maybe you should stick to Chutes and Ladders.
TSgt Ciz
you know the liberals might accuse, they already are doing it ZIMMERMAN, FOR THE SAME INTENT TO
USE THAT AND TRY TO RULE ON THE GUN CONTROL AGAIN.
BYE
Treacher: THIS crime doesn’t matter because the victim would never be mistaken for Obama’s son:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2110078/Boy-13-doused-gasoline-set-alight-racially-motivated-attack-Kansas-City.html
@ Matta: “Still missing the point TSgt Ciz. Zimmerman’s defense, the Sanford PD refusal to press charges is based out Stand Your Ground. When you deliberately put yourself into a confrontation state, or harms way, with full knowledge, the law is not applicable.”
What? Since when?
Since when does walking on a path in a complex that you live in considered putting yourself into a confrontation state?
Since when does, turning around and walking back to your vehicle mean you’ve surrendered your rights to self defense no matter WHAT law exists?
Since when does any legal act, suddenly mean you can no longer react to someone beating the hell out of you and trying to take a weapon from you possibly to kill you with?
Since when do citizens not have the right to patrol their own streets in a private community?
Since When?
Because that is when the US ceased to be a nation of free people.
Tsgt Ciz, I’m quite sure that if Martin were alive today, he’d likely be asking the same questions. Since when was it an illegal act to be returning to where you were staying on a visit, without being followed/pursued/confronted?
That freedom goes both ways. And my guess that were you in Martin’s shoes, you may have a different view of Zimmerman’s actions. As far as patrolling the community, as I have linked here.. or some other of the ga’zillion threads on this.. that the Twin Lakes Retreat neighborhood watch was not only not recognized by the National Sheriff’s Assocation, but that the founder of that watch group (as well as the NSA) do not sanction any patrolling while armed.
@MataHarley:
“We don’t need you to do that” is NOT parsing words and is a hellofa lot different than “We are asking that you stop doing that.” But in your arrogance, you cannot admit when wrong. And no, there is no provision for someone who is themselves, confrontational, but you have no proof that Zimmerman was confrontational, just supposition.
And I guess your GoogleEarth search provides you with where Zimmerman’s car was that night? Got another fabrication you would like to try to shove on the unsuspecting?
You know, Mata, this is a great website and a great place for conversation. Except for the soiling of it that you do when your arrogance gets in the way.
@TSgt Ciz:
Since Mata says it is.
@Tom:
The fact remains, you are also much more likely to commit violent crime if you are a black youth. You can call it racism if you like, but numbers don’t lie.
What would be pertinent is the gun shot activity reported to the Emergency Room at Stroger Hospital while all this gas is being expelled. This is the same hospital where Michelle, the “Bamzilla”, Obama sent her uninsured away from the University of Chicago Hospitals. This is where the gang war – drug war victims just abutting the Hyde Park enclave of Obama, Revco, and Bill Ayers are ambulanced dying or already dead from gun, illigal to own one in Chicago, fire. This is the facility where the babies whom survived the late term abortions were thrown into the closet to die.
@Michel: Someone needs to point out that if obama had a son, he has a greater chance looking white since his own X chromosome is 100% Caucasian. My instincts tell me that his grandmother didn’t sleep around. His “Blackness” is less than 50 % as he is part Egyptian, Arabic, and Kenyan. If he lived in an Islamic country he would subject to possible punishment by death for forsaking his Muslimness and claiming to be of a Christian (???) religion.
By the way, 1961 was 3 years before “The Civil Rights Act of 1964” and every state in the union and probably around the world did not describe blacks from Africa as African on birth certificates. The only term was the biologically accepted race name the opposite of Caucasoid (white) – N……. . His supposedly valid birth certificate is wrong; just saying, unless the recently minted state of Hawaii was ahead of the entire racial explosion starting in 1964.
@Comm0n Sense: Common Sense: The white democrackers already are via the nice little liberal Eugenicists sponsorship of UnPlanned Parenthood (UPP). Margaret Sanger is gloating in hell as she celebrates the 38% 0f UPP abortions of black babies for a black population of 11% of the US as a whole.
@Marine72: As far as I know obie has NOT forsaken islam — he HAS (fraudulently – imo) claimed to be a christian via being a member? of the rev(olting) wright’s BS fraud church which is in fact a muslim front — remember how it is not only permitted but REQUIRED for moo-slimes to LIE to infidels – specifically to DECEIVE in order to gain advantage — I have had to put up with their crap off and on for over 40 years in my profession –
@retire05:
If you knew it was moot, then why in the hell did you ask about Kansas law in #47:
I have no patience for the perpetually stoopid.