…he has essentially denounced as evil and misguided, though in a lukewarm fashion, decades of American policy in the Middle East. Second, he has delegitimized Israel, at least within the context of its current borders. Third, he has by implication suggested that the rule of many of his allies is undemocratic and in consequence, declared himself King of Arabia. He has assumed ultimate responsibility for the political development of the region now. He’s declared it broken. Now he owns it.
See author page
Weeks ago I was looking at Obama’s actions in foreign policy and pointed out that it could be looked at more logically and coherently IF you saw him as a Muslim sympathizer rather than as a sympathizer toward traditional US values, like representative democracy.
Yes, Richard F. is correct: Obama would rather leave in place the WORST of the Muslim leaders: Khamenei and Assad.
Obama has thrown those who have records of trustworthiness under the bus: Bahrain, Saudi Arabia and the only democracy in the Middle East, Israel.
Richard F. is also correct when he points out that appeasement of Muslims only leads to the demand for MORE.
What has Hamas said in response to Obama’s speech?
Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri:
Hamas own newspaper……The Palestine Times
More, more, more!
I posted this elsewhere, but I will repeat it here:
I read obama’s speech from yesterday again this morning – he always amazes me that he seems so clueless about things. He wants the world to bend to his will…his naive ideological will…and he just simply cannot recognize the conflicts in his statements.
He talks about democracy – which our Founders viewed as inherently a bad form of government. He talks about freedom to worship but dares not castigate the Iraqis or the Egyptians for killing Christians. He talks about letting women have an equal place at the table but skips over the fact that islam will simply not allow this. He talks about how the region exports less than Switzerland yet fails to realize that because of islam they are going to be net takers and not net producers until that changes.
I will agree with him that unless the status quo changes, they will not advance. I just don’t think he is deep enough to realize his words are incendiary words for the Palestinians – though the left will argue that they are not.
When he talks of Israel and the Palestinians he says: “I recognize how hard this will be.” Yeah, I don’t think you really do. If you did, you wouldn’t be telling the Palestinians at the start that “efforts to delegitimize Israel will end in failure”, and then spend the next portion of your speech in delegitimizing Israel by telling them and the Palestinians that Israel ought to be shrunk in size and surrounded in toto by Palestine. You also wouldn’t say this and expect the Palestinians to believe it when you have, so far in your administration, shown almost the polar opposite: “As for Israel, our friendship is rooted deeply in a shared history and shared values. Our commitment to Israel’s security is unshakeable. And we will stand against attempts to single it out for criticism in international forums. ”
obama also, in my view, shows his lack of understanding of true negotiations by essentially backing Israel up to the wall but at the same time saying to the Palestinians: ” how can one negotiate with a party that has shown itself unwilling to recognize your right to exist”. THAT ought to be up front and made a condition before ANYTHING else is offered. If you were really serious about making peace between Israel and the arabs, what you should say is basically, “Look you assholes, as long as there is an America, there will be an Israel – so drop the annihilation shit and get over it. Now. Or THERE. IS. NOTHING. ELSE. TO . TALK. ABOUT. Got it?”
The left has bought into the Palestinian meme of “right of return.” They have also chosen the time frame of 1967. To look at a map of the Palestinian territory in 1967 is to show that area belonged to Jordan. But that is not what the Palestinians want, a return to being part of Jordan.
They want war. End of story. They want to drive the Jews into the sea. End of story.
But Obama seems to go along with the argument that Arabs of the Middle East simply want democracy. Nothing is farther from the truth because they are Islamic and Islam doesn’t permit freedom as we know it. My guess is Obama understands this, but his hatred for Israel will not let him admit that one simple fact.
Ask yourself this; why are we seeing such violence in the Middle East NOW? What brought it about? Why didn’t it happen three years ago? What has changed? Were the same dictators not in place three years ago? Were they not as oppressive then as they are now?
The answer is simple, really. The Muslim world recognizes weakness, the weakness they see in Obama and his anti-Israel stance. This is their opportunity to take the puppet to the woodshed. And they will do it. Obama touted the “protests” in Egypt. That should be your first clue that he is clueless. Egypt is now poised to be taken over by the Muslim Brotherhood, and that ain’t good for America.
What about Obama’s choices? Mubarak, who had signed a peace treaty with Israel, and pretty much kept the Islamofascists in check; bad and must go.
Qdaffy, who had pretty much been neutralized and also did not tolerate radical Islam; bad and must go.
Assad, who is killing his own people in the streets, who has supported terrorism, terrorists and has close alliance with Iran; well, he can stay if he does what Obama tells him. Oh, and btw, since Obama is so clueless he doesn’t realize what is really going on in Egypt and Tunisia, well we will just give them billions of American tax payer dollars so that THEY can create jobs.
Note to American Jews: welcome to the reality of what we knew before November, 2008.
@retire05: I think you are right on target!
Israel is GOD’s country. Israel will not be destroyed.
obama and the US, because we elected this person, better look out, GOD is not happy with us!
obama and his ilk need to go.
remember, Israel is GOD’s country and GOD has said that Israel will not be destroyed, however, those who try, will be destroyed.
Israel, you have my profound apologies for our president, and if I am ever elected, I will go on an Obama apology tour! That sorry SOB cannot be American!
There is NO Such Thing, as a ‘Palestinian’.
Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here’s what he said:
The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism.
For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.
In fact, on the same day Arafat signed the Declaration of Principles on the White House lawn in 1993, he explained his actions on Jordan TV. Here’s what he said: “Since we cannot defeat Israel in war, we do this in stages. We take any and every territory that we can of Palestine, and establish a sovereignty there, and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel.”
No matter how many people convince themselves that the aspirations for Palestinian statehood are genuine and the key to peace in the Middle East, they are still deceiving themselves.
In the history of the world, Palestine has never existed as a nation. The region known as Palestine was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their ancestral homeland. It was never ruled by Arabs as a separate nation.
Before the state was declared in 1948 the word ‘Palestinian’ was used by the British as the name for Jews who lived in the British controlled land. But the term was hi-jacked, just as the terrorists hi-jacked planes and buses in order to blow them up, in order to further their jihad against the Jewish state.
Again, there has never been a country called ‘Palestine’ and there is no such thing as a ‘Palestinian people’. Those Arabs came to Israel in order to prevent the establishment of the Jewish state. The British Mandate gave approximately 70% of the British land to the Arabs who established the states Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan. The Arabs who are attempting to occupy the pre-1967 borders of Israel belong in Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan and should be motivated, either monetarily or physically, to move away from the Jewish state.
Ever hear the Rolling Stones, “Time is On My Side” ? The Arabs look with glee at the championing of Barack Obama, will take what they can get now with the full expectation of more later.
‘Peace with Israel’ is not a term they admit exists.
Anyone who believes otherwise is a fool.
What Obama is doing is shocking Israel with his opening offer.
Decades of Presidential initiatives have not led to any progress in achieving a Palestinian-Israeli peace accord. The absence of such an accord contributes to Middle Eastern instability and is continually used by our enemies — from Al Qaeda to Saddam to Iran — to promote the goals of our enemies.
One reason why there has been no progress at all (and even legendary peacemaker George Mitchell just called it quits) is that the Israelis believe that time is on their side. The longer they stall, the more “settlements” are constructed and the more former Palestinian West Bank territory is annexed. There is nothing at all to motivate them to ever come to any agreement.
If Obama makes the Israelis believe that there might be a serious international movement to formally recognize a Palestinian state, with pre-1967 borders, this creates tremendous incentive for them to finally cut a deal. The Palestinians had already decided that Israeli settlements in place would probably have to stay with Israel.
In a sense, the Obama initiative actually makes it more possible, politically speaking, for the Israeli government to sell a peace treaty to the Israeli people. They can now say, look, Obama wanted us to return to pre-1967 borders, but look what we negotiated! We get to keep our settlements!
It’s a fresh idea to break up a perpetual stalemate. It’s statesmanship. It’s in the best interests of the USA, which should be Obama’s number one priority.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA
Esdraelon, your history of the territory is dead on. If the Palestinians want a real “right of return” they would become Jordanians. But the truth of the matter is that the area known as Palestine was considered a “Jewish” homeland by first century Romans. Arabs were then still nomades who traveled from nation to nation.
Arafat was offered by the Israelis 90% of everthing he asked for. He turned it down, because it maintained a Jewish state, Israel. Arafat was not interested in peace, he was interested in maintaining the status quo so that he, and his followers, could continue to bombard Israel, all in the name of statehood. It is a farce.
Look at Gaza. Israel offered Gaza back to the Egyptians, but the Egyptians said “Hell, no, we ain’t taken’ that mess. Those people are nuts.” and to this day, Egyptians block the entry of Gazans into Egypt. But the Marxist American press will continue to cry the plight of the Gazans, never blaming Egypt for that plight, or showing the fancy new shopping mall that was built in Gaza last year, in spite of claims that Gazans are starving to death. And the rest of Palestine; do you think Jordan wants it back? Hell, no, they are no dumber than the Egyptians.
It is my understanding that Hamas has declined Obama’s idea saying it is not enough. It will never be enough. When you teach your children to hate those of another faith, and put AK-47’s into the hands of children marching them down the street shouting “Death to Israel”, no land agreement will ever be enough.
@openid.aol.com/runnswim:
The ‘best interests’ of the US of A would be for Obama come down off his high horse and attend to what is going to soon be $5.00 a gallon gasoline, etc.
And if you very truly believe that a ‘peace accord’ will actually attain peace, then I got some prime property under a bridge in Brooklyn, including the bridge, that is up for sale, cheap. Like a tour? I’ll give you a price that’s a steal!
@retire05:
Thanks, retire: Here is another good link on the facts:
http://middleeastfacts.com/Articles/myth-of-the-palestinian-people.php
Apparently the Saudi King and other Muslims contributed more to the Obama campaign fund than liberal American Jews! But then, Obama was brought up on Jew/Israel hatred, so it’s a pretty natural state of affairs that he work to destroy the only nation he hates as much as the US!
Esdraelon, if openid goes in for the bridge, I will sweeten the deal with some ocean front property; in Lubbock.
@openid.aol.com/runnswim: Obama throws the entire country of Israel under the bus and you call it statesmanship??
How much statesmanship did it take for Obama to give this speech with absolutely no heads up to Netanyahu that he would be taking this stance?
That is how you treat an enemy, it is NOT how you treat an ally.
Or do you disagree with this?
.
.
Wow!
Bibi schooled Obama!
Some of it:
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu:
Jake Tapper of ABC News has more.
@anticsrocks:
Not quite. Netanyahu, with an assist from Boehner, tried to pull an end run on the President.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/20/world/middleeast/20policy.html?hp
What really surprises me is how many people in America apparently think that it’s an outrage for the President of the United States to not take his ME marching orders from a foreign head of state. This view has it that not only is it not in the interests of the United States, it’s an “insult” for our President to make American policy without Netanyahu’s input and ultimate sign-off. Even if one doesn’t agree with Obama’s strategy, I find that to be an odd stance to take.
What is in US vital national interests in Israel? Not much. We support them because of the historical nature of the Jewish people (holocaust), and the influence of the Jewish diaspora in the US, and the sense by evangelicals of the need for a Jewish homeland for the second coming.
With that all said, what has it cost the US for supporting Israel? Well, we have given direct aid of $114 Billion to Israel. That does not include the $ Billions we have had to give to Jordan, Egypt and the Palestinian authority as part of bilateral payments to support “peace”; and does not include the instability costs to our country. These costs are not sustainable. That money needs to be spent on our country, not for endless bullshit in the middle east.
@blast:
Well, I can agree with that much. I would think that the existence of Israel could depend upon God and not the largesse of the United States. However, the way Christians see it, everything belongs to God and we are simply stewards, and not good ones at that.
Tom, so what if Netanyahu wants to address Congress? Is he not the head of a state with which we are an ally? Was the head of Mexico not allowed to address Congress? You seem to have no problem with Calderon, and his anti-American speech, in front of Congress, but do have one with Netanyahu. And, according to your NYSlimes source, Obama’s speech, and consequent statements were no more than a “gotcha”. How presidential is that?
You also make the mistake thinking Obama is taking marching orders from Netanyahu. No, no, no, it is the other way around; Netanyahu is NOT going to take Israel’s marching orders from Obama. What right does Obama have to tell another sovereign nation what to do? What right does Obama have to tell Israel to put itself in a position of being destroyed by people who teach their children, in their homes and in their schools, to hate the Jews?
blast, while you whine and cry over the billions given to Israel, and other Middle Eastern nations, what has been the return? Israel share its excellent intelligence with the U.S., helping us stay safe from those terrorists who are raised in Jordan, Egypt and Palestine. Can you name any Israelis that have tried to fly planes into our buildings, or blow up Times Square or any Jew that went on a military base, on our home soil, and murdered 13 people? There is no rate of return by giving money to Islamic nations, except if you measure the rate of return in the attempts to kill Americans.
Get beyond your atheism. Israel may be Jewish. So what? Kuwait, which is another ally, is Muslim. But Israel, unlike Kuwait, is a true free nation. I can take my Bible with me when I enter Israel, I can’t do that in any Muslim nation.
I had – in the decades past – thought a ”Palestinian state” might be a great idea for one reason.
IF that state ever attacked Israel then Israel could utterly and completely annihilate it.
But these days that could never happen.
As Bibi pointed out <a href="@Nan G:”>here :
The average age of an Israeli is 29 years.
The average age of a ”Palestinian” is only 17 in Gaza, 21 in the more prosperous and peaceful West Bank.
Obama swallowed the major fallacy of the imaginary ”right of return” whole.
But Obama had help….
He spent 20 years listening to it from Rev. Wright’s mouth, from Rashid Khalid ( a teacher, writer and Obama friend who is critical of Israel. Mr. Obama spoke at the dinner, where other speakers likened Israel and Israelis to terrorists) from Israel-hater Ali Abunimah (who quoted Obama: “Hey, I’m sorry I haven’t said more about Palestine right now, but we are in a tough primary race. I’m hoping when things calm down I can be more up front……Keep up the good work!” )
It looks like Israel might get cut loose.
But will that country have the guts to utterly destroy an enemy if one attacks it like happened in 1967?
@retire05:
Spot on!
@Nan G:
That might be a good thing, Nan. The things that world leaders do in their time can either slow those four horsemen from a gallop to a trot. Obama may be setting the stage to cut Israel loose, maybe or maybe not, but should he do it, Israel will no longer be able to stand upon the good graces of the world (US) and forced finally stand upon the grace of God. He will see them through. They simply don’t accept it yet.
He did it in 1967, He will do it again. There was No Way that Israel should have been able to come back and win that war in 1967. Providence….
Sometimes, blast… you’re downright scary in your tunnel vision.
Vital interests? Intel in the hotbed of the Middle East, for one. Israeli intel is exceptional, and strategically located.
Secondly, Israel is, and has been, one of the top 20 trade partners with the US since 1985.
You throw out a figure, but don’t bother to break it down annually, or over the time we’ve had relations with them following WWI. The average is about $3 bil annually, or about $500 per each Israeli citizen. Also, that figure has moved up and down over the decades.
I might add you need to get more specific on separating economic aid, military aid and grants. Three different critters. Most of the aid is in military assistance, which isn’t a bad idea for national security purposes when you depend upon them for shared inside intel in the heart of the ME.
As the 2010 CRS report on US-Israeli relations and trade notes, their military edge in the reason is a direct result of our military aid. Also, it was our economic aid that sparked their economy, in part because of shared US-Israeli scientific cooperation.
Working with such a partner on trade and economics, as well as having shared military and strategic defense goals could not make them any more vital a foreign nation.
Apparently, when it comes to weighing the cost and benefits of Israel, you haven’t turned on the light bulb in the ol’ grey matter. And it becomes more important when you consider the insanity of Obama throwing money at a military rule Egyptian regime poised to be consumed by the Muslim Brotherhood/Salafist coalition in September.
@anticsrocks, there was no element of surprise. I did a post on the ME speech an hour before the Zero opened his trap to insert his other foot. As I pointed out in the post, Israel already had a leaked version of the substance. On the other hand, the NYTs said Obama wasn’t sure.
Two points… pay attention, Blast. 1: The NYTs “deep throats” are way inferior to Israel’s. 2: Most of Israel’s intel is dead on, which is why they are vital to our national security.
WTF? Ain’t that a leap over the Grand Canyon to no where…. This POTUS would do well to gather advisers who actually know history. Then he wouldn’t be the unmitigated and dangerous fool he is in foreign policy…. more coming on that.
NanG, don’t forget Obama’s close relationship with his Columbia professor, Edward Said, a Palestinian who was thought to have worked for Arafat as a propaganda pimp in the U.S. Said, was also a close friend of William Ayers, who is now helping organize the flotilla heading to Gaza.
@Tom: Do you remember when Obama said this?
I guess that doesn’t apply when he is talking about trying to tell Israel what to do…
Face it, our present POTUS is not very Presidential and has absolutely no notion of what it means to take the high road in any given situation.
You keep defending him and no matter what kind of an ass he makes of himself on the world stage, you can just light another candle on the alter you have to him in your living room.
@retire05:
I do recall that.
In fact, the dinner featuring keynote speaker Edward Said was where Ali Abunimah was when he took the photos of Obama and Said here.
My Obama quote from Ali A. was from that article.
Said died in 2003.
While he no longer bends Obama’s ear CNN’s Fareed Zakaria admits doing so.
A simple search of his name and the word ‘Israel’ tells you how he feels about that country.
Obama mirrored his one-sided attitude quite closely.
Nan, how telling that Obama would rely on the advise of Fareed Zakaria when he could just as easily talk to Dr. Zudhi Jasser. Jasser is a devout Muslim who believes that peace with Islam will never be possible until Islam experiences a “reformation” and the political Islam is separated from the religious Islam. Frankly, I think Jasser is wishing on a star, but I give him an A for trying. I once saw Zakaria debate Jasser and Zakaria, or course, had to rely on insults while Jasser tried to be logical.
As an avid listener of Mark Levin, I heard that the Talmud has over 800 references of Jerusalem and Zion. The Koran has none. The Mosque of Omar is built over a sacred Jewish site. What else is new?
Levin stated that the narcissist can go to Hell and Hillary should get lost. Who the hell is he to grant concessions to hypocrites who always embarrass themselves with their own rhetoric?
Lock and load, Israel. Get ready for smashing victories against insurmountable odds. No UN and concessions this time.
@retire05:
What makes you think i have a problem with it?
Where exactly did I mention Calderon? Again, where did I state I had a “problem” with anyone addressing congress?
@anticsrocks:
Perhaps instead of spreading misinformation and trying to put words in my mouth, you can elaborate on your assertion that President Obama threw Israel “under the bus”. Considering what the US has done – and continues to do – for Israel, I think we have a stake and a right to an opinion on how we might help break the impasse over the Palestinian question, the implications of which have enormous consequences for our own security as well as Israel’s. The idea that we should hand them a blank check and then basically shut-up doesn’t make too much sense to me.
On a personal level, I find Netanyahu’s petulance towards Obama frankly insulting both to the President and all US citizens by proxy. Furthemore, trying to run behind the President’s back and hamstring a US foreign policy initiative is hardly helpful or a sign of good faith on his part.
Well, that’s interesting, Tom. If Netanyahu were running for POTUS, he’d get my vote.
And what’s this “running behind” the POTUS back bit? The US is offering up Israeli land as a price for peace… when they know full well that’s been offered, and rejected before… and it’s BeBe doing the “hamstringing”? And that comment about a “blank check and shut up” bit? You’d better reread my comment with links above.
You’re one piece of work, dude.
Obama’s White House announced his speech on May 14th.
Netanyahu was INVITED by House Speaker John Boehner to speak on Thurs April 14th.
Earlier that same week, Hillary said Obama would lay out U.S. policy toward the Middle East.
So, there was NO LEAK, as the NYTimes implies in Tom’s quote at his #16.
LOL!
(Not a SHILL for Obama, is the NYTimes, no Siree!)
In point of fact, Netanyahu was planning his visit to DC before even that!
@retire05:
Retiro5, I just adore Dr. Zudhi Jasser.
He is brave to make his views known in public.
Only in the West could he do so and still be breathing.
Arabic lesson:
There is no ”peace” with either unbelievers or Israel in Islam.
There are only TEMPORARY ceasefires, truces, treaties.
According to the teachings of all sects of Islam, a ”HUDNA” is only a TEMPORARY ceasefire, no longer than 10 years maximum.
And the purpose of a HUDNA is to allow the Muslim side to RE-ARM to begin fighting again at an advantage.
With that in mind be sure to read all of this.
EXCERPTS:
Hamas co-founder Mahmoud Zahar:
………..
(Zahar used HUDNA when he said ”truce.”)
@Nan G:
Wow. Talk about a stretch. Basically, all your timeline does is verity the plausibly of the Times’ claim that Netanyahu knew about the speech before his address to Congress was set up.
@Tom:
Yeah…..like the rest of us.
Straight from Hillary Clinton!
“….got wind of it….”
What?
Was it a secret Hillary wasn’t supposed to share???
LOL!
@Nan G:
Tell me, Nan, because I must have missed it, where exactly in your intrepid sleuthing is the proof that Netanyahu first learned of the speech from Clinton? And, for my own edification, please provide your definition of the phrase “got wind”, if you’d be so kind. You seem to weigh it with a conspiratorial edge that I doubt the writer intended.
Watching Hannity. Rove stated that both the Muslim in Chief and Shillary have to back track from the irate leader of Israel. Huge fallout from this. Gotta save those huge left wing donors of Jewish leanings. This amateur hour is getting hilarious. Looks like Egypt is falling to the Muslim Brotherhood of the Arab Spring.
I wonder if Bebe is going to visit Stephen Harper for consolation?
The Won got a huge history lesson. Is he that stupid, even with billions of dollars worth of advice?
The Bush letter supporting Israel,which was endorsed by both Houses, is solid gold.
@MataHarley:
Hmmm… at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, I don’t think he was born in America. He seems vaguely “middle-eastern”… not American at all. Where’s the birth certificate, Bibi?
How could the US offer up land that’s not ours? I think perhaps what the President is doing is trying to set up realistic parameters for brokering a deal. If this was easy to do, it would have been done a long time ago. Netanyahu would prefer the status quo, obviously, so any attempt to broach a realistic road map is going to be met with hysteria from the right wing, both in Israel and America. Netanyahu’s position is unsustainable, and neither side is going to get everything they want, so any American position that’s actually attempting to be constructive is necessarily going to be painful and controversial. Being a cheerleader for Netanyahu, and doing nothing to advance peace, would have been the politically safe position to take. I think we saw how far that advanced a solution during the last administration.
Right back at you, Dudette (fist bump).
Alternative perspective, Tom. Obama’s announcement of that as the starting point stated a US backed position right out of the gate that was beyond offensive to the Israelis, and many of we Americans. Nor is that a “realistic parameter” for brokering a deal. Israel has been there, done that, before with Clinton’s Camp David accords. Arafat and the PA just found another reason not to agree… which brings me to your second observation:
No where close to the truth. Israel desires peace more than their neighbors. But they’re not going to give up the farm, and then be further encroached upon post that acquisition. Those that do want the status quo, most especially now post Mubarak, is Palestine. Obama effectively removed the only remaining Arab obstacle in their path to (correction)
peace*war* with Israel.Which means that in two piss poor decisions, Obama threw Mubarak under the bus… the only one having Israel’s back via tunnels and sea… and then tossed in Israel by make the US stance that Israel give up land. The Arab world is quite astute that “friends” of the US do not fare well under this POTUS.
oh yes… LOL on the fist bump!
Tom seems to be bitching about something that hasn’t happened, that I can see. I don’t believe anyone here has stated that Obama, and by extension, the U.S., should be “taking marching orders from Netanyahu”.
And it’s quite funny that he is defending the POTUS, who is trying to tell Israel what their marching orders should be, concerning ME peace talks. I can’t imagine the amount of stretching that it takes to reconcile those within one’s mind, so that one can defend Obama.
There’s a Palestinian orchestration to the turmoil in and around Israel. The Palestinians and Hamas recently coordinated a march across Israeli borders in a failed attempt to make Israel look like the authoritarian governments of Egypt, Syria and Libya. You saw the people crossing into Israel and being rebuffed by the Israeli military. A photo op for laughing Hamas creeps and a failed effort to parallel Israel’s reaction to other Arab states in the region where opposition is wining against creeps like Mubarack, Quadffi and others.
Listen to Obama and you would think that he is being fair-handed in saying that he’d like to see a safe and secure Israel. But listen carefully and he uses words like “contiguous” and “pre-1967 borders”. Make no mistake, Hamas could not have a better spokesman than Hussein Obama. But they will fail.
Fortunately, none of what Obama says will come to fruition. Not because Israel does not want peace; it’s because the kind of peace Israel requires is one that requires safeguards against an enemy that will not relent on their misdirected goal of wanting an end to the Israeli state. That alone is what will over and over again impede a negotiated peace.
The idea that September may bring a unilateral declaration of statehood, with the help of the U.N., for the Palestinians is as much of a pipe dream as anything. Israel won and should keep, in my humble opinion, all of the lands captured since the ’67 war. It will become easier for Israel to do this because the Palestinians are making missteps by colluding with Hamas, an internationally recognized terrorist group. I dare suggest that no one at the U.N. will suggest that terrorism is somehow worth siding with.
And, perhaps now American Jews will help kick Obama out. Obama is no friend of Israel.
defend zero at all costs huh tom?
telling another soveriegn country what they must do, and that dictate includes doing something akin to cutting your own throat, then the throat cuttee objects to having zero giving away their right to continued existance, and doesnt apreciate having its throat cut,
and they are disraspectful?!!
they are stabbing barack in the back??!
your a cretin
@MataHarley
It’s amazing that you conflate my expressed opinion about one individual, Netanyahu, with that of the entire country of Israel. Of course most Israelis desire peace. I’m even aware that the Palestine leadership has a terrible track record, has been historically rife with corruption, and hardly inspires confidence that they can rise to the occasion. Nevertheless, I think Netanyahu is unrealistically inflexible. This next thought isn’t directed specifically at you, but I also think that painting President Obama’s position as “anti-Israeli” because it doesn’t conform with the standard Israeli far-right position is the kind of oversimplification I’ve come to expect from some people on the fringe, those who can’t conceive of a reality that isn’t binary: you agree with me in totality, or you disagree with me in totality (details need not apply).
Tom, the more you talk, the more we see your knowledge of ME events… both past and current… are simply deplorable. Do you know anything about BeBe at all? Doesn’t sound like it… Hint. Burgeoning economy for Israel. Better when they’re at war and cleaning up the debris? Or when they’ve got a peace, even if fragile at best. Have a clue as to what role BeBe has played in Israel’s economy?
A little education about Israel and their leaders over the past 15 years may do you a world of good. Certainly we would be spared the pain of the your less than astute observations.
rumcrook, hi, they think ISRAEL are fool to give in to them who want to destroy them,
It’s their only goal, and nothing else,
bye, nice to read you again
@rumcrook:
sort of like this?
http://www.jewishnews.net.au/netanyahu-rejects-obamas-call-to-return-to-1967-border/
You’re no slouch yourself.
good grief, Tom. Letter from Bush to Ariel Sharon in 2004 is the US commitment to which BeBe refers. A executive agreement in writing, similar agreements of which the SCOTUS has opined as constitutional, that this POTUS has decided to withdraw.
Can Israel sue the US because Obama decided not to honor his predecessor’s agreement in court? Probably not. But it sure does a number on US credibility, respect and support for allies.
Then again, Obama’s been very busy eliminating our allies thru his term thus far.
Tom, you make the accusation that Netanyahu is being “unrealistically inflexible.” How can you be so wrong?
Netanyahu represents his people, the Israelis, and it is their desire and wishes he carries out, unlike the empty suit that is now making up rules as he goes along and expects the American people to do his bidding.
Now, let’s take a look at a few facts, shall we? After the Six Day war, Israel possessed the Golan Heights, the Sinai Peninsula, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, all lands taken from Jordan, Egypt and Syria. Israel has given back to Egypt the entire Sinai Peninsula and offered them the Gaza Strip which Egypt did not take back, conceded lands in the West Bank and still holds the Golan Heights. But Jordan also did not want the Golan Heights because Jordan did not want Hamas in their own back yard.
So Israel has given back much of the land they took by force, kept some that the Arab nations rejected and you say they are being unreasonable? And what happens when the Arab states refuse to take back the rest of the land. Jordan and Syria refused to accept lands previously owned by them because they want to create another state where they have no responsibility for that state’s people.
And what does Israel get for giving back those lands? They get rockets fired at school buses killing Israeli children. They get their cities bombarded by Iranian build bombs.
Demanding a Palestinian state is like U.S. declaring war on Canada and the people of Chicago demanding their own nation.
And what has Palestine done to show that it wants peace? Or the Gaza Strip? Oh, I know, the Israeli bockades you will claim oppress the Gazans. What a load.
When it comes to the Palestinian territories, the American press are all Walter Lipman.
@johngalt:
I can’t really speak to your point, John, as I find your post incoherent, but I couldn’t help noticing the whiney and wounded tone. Have we, as they say, crossed swords before? If so, was the ghastly result why you sound so glum?
ISRAEL, are very smart and diplomatic, they already figured out every thing they want to know,
and they will do what they want to protect their people not to protect their ennemies,
and whoever is siding with their ennemies will not be worth nothing for them.
@retire05:
I appreciate the history lesson, retire, I really do. It is a good reminder of everything Israel has been through, and why they deserve peace rather than living in constant state of terror. The relative nobility of either side however doesn’t change my opinion that the current reality won’t bend to either sides’ most fervent wishes. A lasting peace will require a general acceptance on both sides that, while concessions may have been made, the end result has some fairness, perhaps even justice. Either side being subjugated and humiliated through force will only lead I fear to more misery down the road.
@MataHarley:
And please remind me again how Bush’ approach brought peace to Israel again, because I am pretty darn forgetful. Except I do know the letter of which you speak, and I don’t see how you can seriously expect a future president to be bound by that in perpetuity.
Tom, first, what is acheived by granting statehood to a land divided by other nations? The lands that constitute the Palestinian territories were once part of Syria, Jordan and Egypt. Second, if you want “right of return”, as the Palestinians are demanding, then give them the right to return to their original nations, not to be an independent Arab state.
Again, how much must Israel give? And what have the Palestinians given except bombs and suicide bombers?
If I were Israel, I would tell the world that I was willing to give the lands back to Egypt, Jordan and Syria and let them deal with the crazies in the Palestinian territories. And you are mistaken about the “nobility” of both sides. There is no nobility coming from Hamas or the PLO.
Tom, as per your questions here:@Tom:
simply use the link provided here:
@Nan G:
It was your own NYTimes quote that made it all seem so conspiratorial, Tom.
I just made fun of the NYTimes for doing so.
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Tom, in your #43 you wrote:
Tell me, is Abbas of Fatah in West Bank the legal leader?
The legal limit for his term was 4 years.
And that ended several years ago.
Abbas has put off legal elections ever since.
If you were supposed to sign a legal agreement, wouldn’t you want your opposite to be the properly, legally instituted representative for his side?
Abbas fails in that.
How can Israel sign anything with him?
Hamas appears to be the legally instituted representatives for Gaza.
BUT, Hamas has made it very clear that they still seek the utter, eventual destruction of Israel.
They have stated any ceasefire is only temporary and NOT a ”peace.”
They refuse to recognize the legal state of Israel.
How can Israel sign anything with them?
Obama was a fool to think he could box Israel into signing its own death warrant.