Some of us have observed the homosexual movement from the very beginning. First, all they wanted to do was practice the sexual desires which “God gave them,” so they managed to get sodomy laws abolished. But that was not the end game.
Then they wanted to live with their heads held high, so they wanted to hold Gay Pride Parades. If you have ever been to a gay parade, you know that, it is not just a bunch of homosexuals on floats holding up banners saying, “I’m gay and loving it!” You will see all sorts of simulated sexual acts and men wearing clothing in such a way as to be erotically graphic. It is much more of an “in your face” approach. “This is what we are; deal with it.” But that was not the end game.
Now that gay pride parades are common—at least in some areas—there was the next step. So many male homosexuals had the love of their lives suffering in hospitals, and yet, they had no legal right to see this person, and family members were keeping them separated, and so they had to have civil unions or domestic partnership laws. The hospital scenario was presented again and again, although this was a situation that fewer than 1% of homosexuals had ever dealt with. Many had been to hospitals with ex-lovers dying of AIDS, but the number who had been banned from their “lifetime” partner was minuscule. However, by presenting that rarely occurring scenario, homosexuals gained quite a number of state laws which allowed them to become legally attached with the legal rights that they needed to have. But, that was not the end game.
And now, today, the big push is for marriage rights. Everyone has the right to marry the person that they love, except for gays; and it is so unfair! “It is a fundamental human right to marry the person you love!” they proclaim.
There are churches in every state—many of them headed by gay pastors—who are more than willing to perform a marriage ceremony, and pronounce them married at the end of the ceremony; and gays can tell everyone that they know, “This is my gay marriage partner” and they can demand such recognition from their friends and family. But, you know what is so terrible? The state will not proclaim them married! The federal government will not proclaim them married! Oh, dear, oh dear; this is such a violation of their civil rights! How can they really feel married unless the state or federal government recognizes them as married? Attending their own marriage ceremony in which they are pronounced married? Not good enough. Telling all of their friends and family that they are married? Not good enough. Marriage only counts, for some reason, if the state or federal government certifies them as being married.
But gay marriage is not the end game. No gay will ever tell you the end game, because if they did, you would never support gay marriage.
What gays like is more sexual partners. Whereas, it is very unusual for a heterosexual male to have 100 or more different partners, this is not unusual in the gay community. A study in 1978 said that 75% of gay men had over 100 sexual partners. And since gays make up only about 3% of the population, it is hard to find new gay men to have sex with. What is their approach? Some partially change themselves into women; they don’t go all the way (except for the very nutty ones), but they go far enough so that they can have sex with some straight men.
However, if marriage between gays becomes the law, and the state recognizes homosexual marriages to be legally equivalent to marriages between heterosexuals, then life in America is going to change dramatically. Gay marriage is not the end game; but once gay marriage is made legal, then gays can do a number of things they have been wanting to do.
First, because there are always been animosity among gays against Christians, the Bible will be proclaimed to be hate literature and any pastor who tries to teach portions of the Bible will be taken to court for teaching hatred. They could care less whether or not they win; sue a few small churches, and word will get around fast enough. Defending against such lawsuits is expensive, and few churches can afford to do it. We know this will happen because it already has. If marriage between homosexuals is “legalized” then, this opens up the opportunity to strike back at the church, and if a few congregations get shut down, who cares? These churches are nothing but disseminators of hatred.
However, attacking Christians and the Bible is not the end game; that is simply sport and revenge. The end game is, more homosexual partners. When a man has had 100 sexual partners, that has to be a clue that, having sex, and a lot of sex, is extremely important to the homosexual. If there is a way to expand the franchise, so to speak, that is seen as a great objective.
Sexuality is a complex thing, and homosexuals have found that, if a male is violated at a very early age, sexual gratification can be associated with homosexual behavior. This does not work in all cases, but it works in enough cases to make presenting homosexual behavior in the schools a worthy goal for the homosexual community. There are many schools today that teach, in sex education, that there are 3 types of sexual intercourse, and all 3 of them are equally valid. This is taught to as young an age as they can get away with.
Even today, there are schools where books about homosexual couplings are made a part of the curriculum for grammar school children. “And Tango Makes Three” is a popular book which has crept into the primary schools all over America.
There are many schools where homosexuals have pushed anti-bullying programs which, incidentally, present homosexual couples as normal. These programs are pushed with great enthusiasm, despite the meager evidence of bullying occurring because a child has two daddies. However, essentially to these anti-bullying programs is, a homosexual union is normal thing and a good thing.
Homosexuals know that young children, just reaching puberty, can be carefully navigated into trying homosexual acts. They know that, by using lies or trickery, make up and surgery, that additional males can be tempted into homosexual acts. This does not mean that such young men will be turned into homosexuals; it just means, they can be gotten to experiment, and that is the end-game. More gay experimentation and more gay partners.
Men are men, whether they are predominantly interested in homosexuality or heterosexuality; and, for many men, multiple partners is a desirable thing to them. This helps to explain why, even in “committed” gay relationships, fidelity is almost nonexistent.
This is why homosexuals have become so active in school curriculums, particularly on the grammar school level. This is why homosexuals are so interested in having gay marriage proclaimed as legal and equal to heterosexual marriage.
This is why they want homosexual acts to be presented side-by-side heterosexual acts in sex education.
Where is the best place for gays to encourage more gay behavior, which means more partners? On the grammar school level.
Here is exactly what they want; here is the end game:
(1) Sexual intercourse between males to be presented as exactly the same as sexual intercourse between a male and a female. No judgment. “You like coffee; I like tea; its all the same.” All of the resultant physical problems from anal intercourse will not be taught at any level. If there is any teaching about AIDS, it will be presented as a disease spread among all sexual relationships, and, all you have to do is, use a condom to prevent it. Furthermore, this must be presented to as young a group as possible. Preferably to children who do not even know what sexual relations are.
(2) A homosexual union must be presented as exactly equal to a heterosexual union. I have a few dozen Time-Life books on home repair, and, in more than half of the pictures, women are doing the work; laying brick, lifting up walls, drilling holes—this is what homosexuals want to see in our schools. If there is a book or a movie or an illustration which involves a family, they want to see a homosexual couple represented. From the earliest age possible, they want young 5 and 6 year old boys reading about gay penguins, or 10 year olds doing a math word problem which involves a homosexual couple Just like women construction workers are ubiquitous in my Time-Life books, they want to see homosexual couples ubiquitous in the public school curriculum. And if a school fails to do this, then they will go to court over it. Such a school would be teaching underlying or institutionalize bigotry, and that must be stopped. They cannot take such a school to court today, because gay marriage is not recognized by the state and federal governments. However, once that hurdle is made, then “institutional sexual bigotry” in the schools will be attacked via the legal system.
(3) Young males in particular must be raised in such a way as to think about their sexuality at a very young age; preferably before puberty, which will encourage experimentation. Whether you realize this or not, more homosexual behavior will be the result. Whether it sticks or not, is not important. It is the experimentation that counts. It is that discussion about sexual identify with a trusted adult that counts.
Homosexual marriage is not about love and commitment; anyone can do that, with or without the law. Passing homosexual marriage is really about recruiting more partners, the younger, the better.
These things are being done to a very limited extent at a handful of schools across the United States. However, once gay marriage passes (particularly, if it is done on the federal level), then these things will be pushed in a much more concerted way in our future, through the schools and the courts.
From Conservative Review #166
http://kukis.org/blog/ConservativeReview166.htm
http://kukis.org/blog/ConservativeReview166.pdf
A retired math teacher who spends most of his time exegeting the Old Testament and, once a week, puts out an ezeen.
how many times have heard spouses speak of each other as being their best friend.
@feetxxxl:
I want to take nothing away from your love and happiness, sir.
Any group of people can have an agape love for one another.
The Taliban can have that.
It just means you, as a group, share certain values together.
They might be Jesus values, and they might not be.
But having that kind of love elevates your relationship and aids it in being one that might last a lifetime.
Jesus values included a hatred for wrong acts, not wrng actors.
He allowed an adultress to live by demanding no one who had ever sinned cast the first stone at her.
But Jesus was opposed to the act of fornication….root in his Greek: Pornea (from which we get the modern word ”pornography.”)
If your ”shared values” do not also include this, you still have a form of agape love.
It is simply not the same one as the set of principles included in Jesus’ agape love.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/27/uganda-gay-lesbian-immigration-asylum
consider reading this sometime in the distant future. and while you are reading this, think not of the violators but of all the christians in those african countries who silently sit by and allow not a single humane jesture to assist these people. then think of the history of christianity where the same was done throughout 600 years of anglo saxon history starting with king henry(1500) who made homosexuality a hanging offense. all of them, believers, in their silence, in the negativeity they held in their hearts about homosexuality, they thought they were doing god’s will. and those generations of believers that followed said ” you expressed that negativeity in the wrong way we will show you how to express in the right way” , and in every way they attempted, it resembled nothing of christ…………yet still the hue and cry remains among believers even today,” this time we will express the negativeity in the right way.”
as i said before…………..that christendom would in any way say that homosexuality was a sin shows that christendom is still struggling to fully embrace the new covenant of christ.
how little we believers are aware of our corporate sins (those of christendom) that jesus died for.
under the old covenant the majority of the sacrifices(more than 90%) that were made were for “unknown” sins.
Sir, you are really confused as to who is murdering homosexuals in Africa, Europe and the Middle East, as well as in all the other Islamic lands.
Take a look at these:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oVHkY4lc3KA/TYe3t6xJ4NI/AAAAAAAAD7Q/3BXel4Q8HKk/s1600/real%2Bliberals4.png
AND:
Most of the Muslim homosexuals in the Middle East who live out of the closet live in Israel.
In Europe the governments and the police are afraid to protect homosexuals from the attacks and threats that Muslims aim at them.
Sadly, as Bruce points out in the essay linked above, many homosexual European groups think going back to the closet is the answer.
Read it and weep.
Why do this?
The quote comes from a story entitled:
Amsterdam Looks to Attract the Pink Dollar!
No lofty values there!
your addresses dont compute nand i have no understanding of what you are saying.
there is no room for hatred in agape love, if their is hatred it is not agape, just like the ONLY love that loves god is love that godloves his neighbor also.
@feetxxxl:
You misunderstand that agape love means ”love based on shared values.”
IF one shares his/her values with the God of the Bible he/she HATES (NOT People) what is bad.
That only means actions, not people.
If one’s shared values love is based on accepting anything and everything, it is still properly called agape love.
But it is NOT the same as the agape love defined by sharing Bible standards.
Hope that clears it up for you, sir.
Agape is one of several Greek words translated into English as love, one which became particularly appropriated in Christian theology as the love of God or Christ for mankind (pronounced /ˈæɡəpiː/[1] and sometimes /əˈɡɑːpeɪ/ after the Classical Greek agápē; Modern Greek: αγάπη [aˈɣapi]). Many have thought that this word represents divine, unconditional, self-sacrificing, active, volitional, and thoughtful love. Although the word does not have specific religious connotation, the word has been used by a variety of contemporary and ancient sources, including Biblical authors and Christian authors. Thomas Jay Oord has defined agape as “an intentional response to promote well-being when responding to that which has generated ill-being.”[2] In his book, The Pilgrimage, author Paulo Coelho defines it as “the love that consumes,” i.e., the highest and purest form of love, one that surpasses all other types of affection.[citation needed] Contemporary philosopher Slavoj Žižek refers to it as “political love”.[3] Greek philosophers at the time of Plato and other ancient authors have used forms of the word to denote love of a spouse or family, or affection for a particular activity, in contrast to philia (an affection that could denote friendship, brotherhood or generally non-sexual affection) and eros, an affection of a sexual nature.
bigfoot – Your main argument is that in something you termed the “new covenant of Christ,” no one can be against homosexuality because it goes against God’s love.
If that is so, then please explain these Bible verses:
The translation in 1 Corinthians 6:9 is erroneous. The original Koin is “malikoi”, literally “soft ones”. Contemporary documents of the time use this to mean “Fop”, “Dandy”, “Clothes-Horse”, “Someone who bathes often”, “Someone who shaves their beard”. What we would now call a Metrosexual, someone overly concerned about their appearance, someone who wears $10,000 Armani suits and a gold rolex.
Think John Edwards.
The sin is that of pride, of social rivalry and too much concern about appearances and worldy affairs. Glitterati. Who may, of course, also be sexually immoral, incontinent, homosexual, bisexual, participants in orgies, and generally behaving like playboys/girls and cocaine-sniffing hollywood socialites. Think Lindsay Lohan or Charlie Sheen.
i have said over and over that the standard for the new covenant is not the lawAS in DEUT 28( paul says we aRE NOT UNDER THE LAW, instead graCE, WHICH IS ALSO SPIRIT), the standard is instead christs love(.which again is spirit)
so the standard is not the laws ofm the old covenant, but christ’s love of the new covenant because christ’s love is higher. in the old, adultry was intercourse but under the new, it is if one looks at another with lust in their heart they have committed adultry. the new is not about outward acts but about what is in a believers heart.
many of the prohibitions of the old were not of themselves sins nor sins of the new covenant. the old required unquestioning obedience. the new says”” test everything keep the good.” the test is that any law of the old not come against christ’s love in order to be part of the new covenant. his love determines what are the laws of the new and what they say. christ’s supremacy is over everthing.col1
being gay does not come against this love. those being gay live the fullness of christ’s love in their livwes and marriages in the same way as heterosexuals do.
in the old, ETHNIC slavery is sanctioned by god.lev” TAKE SLAVES FROM THE SURROUNDING COUNTRIES FOR LIFE……” but under the new slavery is an intolerable sin because of its violation of the godlove of the 2nd commandment(love neighbor)
standing on legalities in 1cor and 1tim( transposing a 19th century word into scripture) to make a physicality a regulation( with no test of christ’s love………..a test of violation of the fruit of christ’s spirit) comes against the supremacy of christ and therefore the new covenant.again under the new we do not have a relationship to god thru regulation but instead directly to the living spirit that lives in each believer, the living spirit that gives ” a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” in the heart of each believer.john4:13
does the law tell god what is the truth. no because the purpose of the law is to point to the spirit of god. in the old, slavery of ethnics pointed to his spirit, in the new the laws against ethnic slavery point to his spirit. in the old violation of the sabbath pointed to the spirit of god (num 15:32 a man was stoned for gatherin firewood on the sabbath) under the new the law said that the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.
if the purpose of the law is to point to god’s spirit(love), then god(his spirit, his love) decides what the law is, and when that law is, and what it says.
scripture says” that christ’s love transcends all knowledge(law)” why then would believers choose to be led by what is transcended rather than what transcends which also is god’s righteousness( rather than what is apart from his righteous.)
christ is god.
john 4
” the true worshippers will worship in spirit and truth” ……………the truth of the spirit……christ’s love , christ’s spirit who was given all authority is supreme.
Wow I can’t believe you guys are still arguing about this on this old post. But okay, I have a question for you. It’s about gay marriage. I’m just curious about something. If it ever does become legal, then gays can not only marry, but they can get divorced too, right?
Okay, here’s what I’m curious about. It has to do with custody battles. If two gays guys are married, and get divorced, how do they decide custody of dependents. Like, who gets the gerbil? Will a judge decide, or will the gerbil get to crawl up inside the preferred asshole?
Good lord a lot of posts!! I’ll keep mine very simple then!! My beef with this?? Social Security!! It’s already BROKE…. now think for a minute. We already have a story, out the other day, about a woman, wanting SS Survivor benefits, for her child, she had via AI AFTER her husband died!! She “got herself pregnant”, with his frozen sperm AFTER his death… and wants SS benies for the baby! Sorry lady, it’s NOT a “survivor” of his! Now, WHAT does this have to do with Gay marriage?? Simple.. you got TWO guys who both can work. They get “legally married” under Federal law….. and ONE DIES….. now, the “survivor, can claim to be the “feminine” side of the pair, and tap Social Security for life! Why should a “healthy capable of work” guy get a free ride for LIFE?? No, it’s NOT far fetched! Not at all, seeing all the ways people tap the Federal teat already! So now, we’re adding yet tens of thousands MORE potential drains on an already overloaded Social security system….. think about it…. and are some people thinking that way now?? Well, like was asked in the post, WHY the fervor to get it STATE and FEDERALLY Recognized?? BENEFITS! Otherwise…. a Civil Union would suffice just fine….
@feetxxxl: You keep mentioning the old covenant. Are you meaning the Old and New Testaments of the Bible? If so, here are passages from the New Testament or covenant as you put it. These passages are from the New International Version of the Bible:
I asked you to explain why the Bible tells us that homosexuality is wrong and a sin and you cannot or will not answer me.
You said:
You cannot cling to the single idea of a “loving spirit in truth” and just say that God does not judge. According to you, all we have to do is sit in a circle, hold hands and sing “KumBayAh,” and all will be okay.
Sorry, but that isn’t the way it works. You claim Christ’s love as your shield and that is a powerful thing, but you offer no explanation as to how in the New Testament homosexuality is wrong and sinful.
heb8: 7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said[b]:
“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”[c]
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear
deut28 is the old covenant.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. –
they exchanged the truth of god’s love for a lie ,and worshipped and sreved the created (powers and principalities) and were given over to the things that served them…….shameful lust.
being gay is not about shameful lust but about mutual love, devotion, affection,trust, andrespect, from their earliest sexual memory, 24/7, their entire lives for a committed shared life together the same as heterosexuals.
if gay sex of itself is a sin why the mention of shameful lust . shameful lust is in heterosexual relationships, but it doesnt make heterosexuality of itself a sin.
god is spirit. what is of god is spirit, what is of the spirit of god is what is natural. because we were make thru his spirit. those who are gay live the fullness of god’s love in their lives and marriage in the same way as heterosexuals, and the fruit of the spirit is in their lives in the same way it is in those of heterosexuals.
paul did not teach thru the law even with the man who had his father’s wife. he a highly learned man created a new word, a compound word rather than the common word of the day for same sex relatioons. the meANING OF compound words may or may not be of the same as the words that make them up….ladykiller. if paul did not teach thru the law then why would he turn around and make up regulation….a regulation with no explanation of violation of christ’s love.
if youare referring to lev, i cannot speak for god, no more can i explain the regulations about mixed fabric or women wearing men’s clothes which was also called an obomination.i do know that god wanted to create a seperate people and men only had sex with what was their property and no isrealite male waS allowed to be another male”s property. to allow it would have allowed for male prostitutes which would be violation of isreal’s patronistic society. given the laws of property there is no way that homosexuality could have been be condoned, particularly because of how primitive nature of society was at the time.
I’m getting here basically the Kind James version. I think there’s only one sure way to settle this debate. We need to study the LOLCat version.
http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Romans_1
Ceiling Cat DO NOT WANT teh Invisible Errors
18 If u has teh invisible errors, an u hides truth, u maek Ceiling Cat mad, k?19 Ceiling Cat shows us wut is tru.20 Wen Ceiling Cat maed teh urths, ppls cud see he has invisible powers, an so they has no excus.21 They dun thx Ceiling Cat. An they wuz confusd.22 They sed “Am smrt,” but reeli r stoopid.23 They dun wurship Ceiling Cat. They wurship teh idols like Booda, but he eets too mani cheezbrgrs. Wy u wanna wurship him?
24 So Ceiling Cat ses FIEN! BE DAT WAY!25 An so they wurship stoopid idols an not Ceiling Cat.26 An Ceiling Cat let them do bad fings and mani invisible errors. An they had ebil secks that wuz bad.27 They even had ebil ghey secks and stuffs.
28 Evrbody thot Ceiling Cat was stoopid, so Ceiling Cat let thm do stoopid stuff dat they shuldnt do!29 Ebil wikkid stuff liek killsing an fites an lies an gosip.30 They iz prowd an meen an they hates Ceiling Cat.31 They dun keep promis, if they ses u can has cookie, an then eets it, an they stolend teh Lolrus’s bukkit.32 They knows Ceiling Cat ses it r bad but they does it anywai.
http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=1_Timothy_1
Sum peeps talkin vain talk;7 dey wanna teech da law but dey no unnerstan wut dey even sayin.8 We knowz da law is good when cats followz it;9 nobody makeded da law for rychus cats, dey makeded it for bad mean cats dat doesnt luv Ceiling Cat, dat killz momz n dadz n other cats,10 n for cats dat lieks buttsecks 2 much,11 accordin 2 da gospel of Ceiling Cat which got giveded 2 me.12 Ceiling Cat FTW cuz he noez I r faythful n he makeded me his servant,13 even tho I useded 2 say bad thingz n persekyute othr cats n stuff: he showed me I r doin it rong,14 n now I’z ok.15 Iz faythful n good 2 say dat Jebus came 2 da world 2 help us stop doin it rong. I useta be da worst of all,16 but Christ Jebus gaveded me mercy n now Jebus showz evryone how much he sufferd, so they can has eternal life 2.17 Dear Invisibl Ceiling Cat, u pwn; plz hav honor n glory 4ever kthxbai.
@feetxxxl: deut28 is the old covenant.
No, sir.
The ”old covenant” was that God would use the people of Abraham, Issac and Jacob to bring all people of the earth into harmony with Him.
The Jews lost that when they, as a group, rejected God’s arrangement of Jesus’ sacrifice to that end.
The ”new covenant” is God’s use of some people from all of earth’s nations to come to Him through His son’s sacrifice.
The Hebrew Scriptures, or ”Old Testament,” serve Christians as part of ”ALL Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” 2 Timothy 3:16,17. (New International Version)
http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Epistle_of_Jude
5 Rememberz, (ha! u alredy no newayz!) Jebus sayved peepz out uv Eegipt, an laterz, OMGWTFHAX! teh unbeeleevers.6 An teh angels who leeved teh ceiling, he chayned up in teh darks until teh jugement7 jus as Sodum an Gonnoreah… i means GOMORRAH!!! (who waz like HARBLS GOES WHERE??? to evrywun they sawed) has eternal punishments in fier.
@feetxxxl:
I think that I posted a fair amount of Scripture, but I do not see those posts now.
@Zoe Brain: The Bible speaks of the earth being a sphere and it also says that God hangs the earth upon nothing. The Bible never claims that the earth is some sort of a physical center of the universe. However, it would certainly be the central battlefield of the angelic conflict.
@feetxxxl:
I believe that homosexuality is a sin because it is so identified as a sin in both the Old and New Testaments.
Rom. 1:24-29 reads: Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves. For they changed the truth of God into a lie, and they worshiped and served the created thing more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this cause, God gave them up to dishonorable affections. For even their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust toward one another; males with males working out shamefulness, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error. And even as they did not think fit to have God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do the things not right, being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; being full of envy, murder, quarrels, deceit, evil habits, becoming whisperers, …
Now, I recognize you as a believer in Jesus Christ, by your own testimony; which means we will spend eternity in heaven together. I gave you an outline of the basic Christian life, because I recognize, that, despite being trapped by your lusts, you also recognize that there is a life after believing in Jesus Christ. Now, what you have done is, you have, up until this time, chosen to try to integrate your life of homosexual lusts with Christianity. Bad idea.
In terms of your personal lusts and desires, I understand them, because I also have feet of clay. However, you have a choice between actually having spiritual impact versus living a life whining about the fruit of the spirit and how other Christians just aren’t showing you enough love.
@feetxxxl:
This does not mean that you have sex with your best friend if he is of the same gender as you.
@feetxxxl:
The Abrahamic Covenant and the Davidic Covenant, among others, relates directly to the contract between God and regenerate Jews. The New Covenant of Jesus Christ is clearly explained as Him giving His life for our sins.
The only relationship between the New Covenant of Jesus Christ and homosexuality is, He died for the sin of each homosexual act which is committed.
Bigfoot, my perception is, you are at a crossroads. You have to made a decision, what do you choose as being the truth, the Bible or the stuff that you believe to be true. Btw, that is not a very unique experience or choice. Many Christians face this same decision.
we are not under the law but under spirit (grace)
romans6:13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means!
if we are under spirit, then will not where the spirit rests show us what is of god. just as peter was shown that gentiles as well as jews were of the kingdom at cornelius’s house. peter witnessed those who were not under the law yet deemed them to be of christ. why would you then attempt to use the law which is apart from righteousness, and not the spirit living in us which is righteousness to validate what is of christ…………love, joy, peace, kindness, goodness, patience, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control. these were what peter witnessed at cornelius’s house.
1john1 calls us to this witness.
instead of being led by an undrstanding of law, the law which is apart from righteousness, consider instead being led by what we as believers witness in fellowship in the oneness of the spirit(which is righteousness) of christ.
there is no doubt that we are brothers in christ, surely our differences about the law cannot be compared to all that we have in christ.
@feetxxxl: Agape is a mental attitude love, which is devoic of mental attitude sins. It is mostly described in the Bible in terms of what is is not
If you had a son who continued to lie or thieve, then you would show this child great agape love by blistering his bottom, to train him not to do wrong.
@Zoe Brain:
Like many of your other posts, you start out sounding sensible and reasonable, and then you take a sudden turn off a cliff.
It means effeminate. It is not a reference to John Edwards or to someone who dresses nicely.
Sodomite, in the same verse, means just that.
When you put effeminate and sodomite together, Paul is clearly designating homosexuals; but he is simply using other words, which would be clearly understood at that time.
If I referred to someone as a fag, 2000 years from now, you’d be telling everyone, Gary was not calling them “gay”; he was saying that he is a bundle of sticks to be burned.
This has gone on long enough. You don’t need a Bible or a religion to know that homosexuality is a mental and emotional illness. People who engage in homosexuality are seriously lacking in some regard. They are sick. In some cases (especially in the case of lesbians) they are sex addicts. In the case of a great many male homosexuals, they are gay for the same reason a certain percentage of the animal kingdom engages in homosexual acts. They quite simply are unable to compete for sex with men who are their superior in the art of attracting, and keeping, a woman. If they could get one, they just don’t have what it takes to keep her. Or, at least, keep her with any realistic hope that she will be consistently faithful to him. All he has to offer her is money or someone to babysit her kids, give her a stable family, but as soon as she sees the kind of guy she wants to screw, off she goes with him. The gay man knows this deep down and is hurt and resentful. So what does he do? He sublimates his sexual desire onto men. This is the same reason animals do it. They can’t compete in the brutal animal world for a mate, even a temporary one, so they start humping other male dogs. Or their masters legs. The gay man is simply inferior sexually when it comes to heterosexual sex, and so they become gay. End of story.
@feetxxxl:
By your reasoning, I can go out and kill anyone that I want; but, I had better not hate them. Hate would be a sin, but killing would not.
You have given what has to be the weirdest interpretation to this passage that I have ever seen. Jesus is explaining that, not only is the act wrong, but the fantasizing about the act is also wrong. It is not difficult to understand.
Get of copy of e-sword, install it onto your computer, and look up “New Covenant” in the NT. Jesus explains exactly what it is….it is the New Covenant of His blood; which would be His death for our sins.
Again, you are going to have to decide between accepting the Bible as authoritative or putting a weird twist on everything, so that you can commit homosexual acts and think they are somehow blessed by God.
@ThePaganTemple: I believe you will find your answer right here:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/478/is-it-true-what-they-say-about-gerbils
@feetxxxl: The New Covenant in Jeremiah simply continues the various covenants made to Abraham and David. God did not invalidate all of His previous covenants, because that would mean that God is not immutable.
@gary kukis:
No, a circle. A disk. (Isaiah 40:22). One cannot see the antipodes from a mountain, no matter how high.
See Genesis 1:6-18.
The firmament or expanse was a great tent-like (Isaiah 40:22) ceiling made of solid crystalline material (Job 37:18 and Ezekiel 1:22), which might be pierced by skyscraper and gimlet (3 Baruch 3:7–8). It had many windows, some of which opened and closed for the sun and moon to travel through (1 Enoch 72:2–5) or to let water, which was held above, fall through as rain (Genesis 7:11). On top there were also warehouses of snow and hail (Job 38:22). Stars were small objects that were attached tenuously to its surface (Genesis 1:14–17, Daniel 8:10, Matthew 24:29, Mark 13:25, Revelation 6:13, 8:10, 9:1 and 12:4).
See Baruch 3:7-8 on the Tower ob Babel
7 And the Lord appeared to them and confused their speech, when they had built the tower to the height of four hundred and sixty-three cubits. And they took a gimlet, and sought to pierce the heaven, saying,
8 Let us see (whether) the heaven is made of clay, or of brass, or of iron. When God saw this He did not permit them, but smote them with blindness and confusion of speech, and rendered them as thou seest.
That the book is part of the apocrypha, not in most versions of the Bible, is immaterial. The fact that it was written when it was shows conclusively that “firmament” was interpreted quite literally at the time, not metaphorically as has been suggested by desperate apologists for biblical literalism.
463 Cubits is about 250 metres by the way. Rather less than the height of the Empire State Building (383 metres) , yet still far beyond any engineering work of the time.
For a well-researched theological analysis of the Firmament, see THE FIRMAMENT AND THE WATER ABOVE by P.H.Seeley, Westminster Theological Journal 53 (1991) 227-40 . This covers Egyptian, Sumerian, Babylonian and other cosmologies (as well as Hebrew/Biblical), and is a fascinating and well-written read.
whatever outward acts that are made come from the spirit first given over to within.
According to bigfoot, since Jesus taught love, and gay men “love” each other, then being gay is okay.
Talk about twisted logic.
Gary, you were correct in your analysis of bigfoot’s ill-fated logic. If you like the guy you kill, then you are okay with God because of his teachings of love for one another.
@Zoe Brain:
This Hebrew word is only found in Isa. 40:22, Job 22:14 and Prov. 8:27. In the latter 2 passages, confining this word to being a 2-dimensional concept makes these passages suddenly lose their meaning.
to all
we were made out of love, we are all love children. we were all made” very good”(gen) because we all were made thru the spirit of christ, his spirit is love(god is love). this same loving spirit lives in all of us because his loving spirit created us. the sin nature that we have inherited was also created, but it can never change the essence of what god created. christ’s” yoke is easy and his burden is light” because he is asking us to surrender to the essence that we were created. our sin nature would chose us to do otherwise.
the essence of what we were created can be seen in the fruit of his spirit, love, joy, peace, kindness, patience,gentleness, self-control, faithfulness, and goodness. these are the treasures we lay up in heaven.
@Gary Kukis:
Re Job:22 – a flat disk covered by a hemispherical vault is what is described.
KJV:
12 Is not God in the height of heaven? and behold the height of the stars, how high they are!
13 And thou sayest, How doth God know? can he judge through the dark cloud?
14 Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven.
New International Version
12 “Is not God in the heights of heaven? And see how lofty are the highest stars!
13 Yet you say, ‘What does God know? Does he judge through such darkness?
14 Thick clouds veil him, so he does not see us as he goes about in the vaulted heavens.’
Proverbs 8:27
KJV
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
New International Version
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
Flat, circular Earth, supported by its foundations, with the fountains of the waters below springing up through it, a hemispherical firmament with stars afixed thereto covering it to keep the waters above out. Except when it rains, snows or hails and the windows of heaven open to let the waters above fall through, or the snow or hail that’s kept in storehouses on top of the firmament.
Perfectly in accordance with the Babylonian cosmology of the time, as described in multiple contemporary sources.
St. John Chrysostom(344–408), as quoted in Homilies Concerning the Statutes, Homily IX [1], paras.7-8, in A SELECT LIBRARY OF THE NICENE AND POST-NICENE FATHERS OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH, Series I, Vol IX, ed. Philip Schaff, D.D.,LL.D., made it clear that the Earth was FLAT (and that’s that), though he’s better known for his homilies on Romans, where he considers homosexuality to be worse than murder.
All the Syriac church fathers were platygean.
People cherry-pick which parts of the Bible they want to believe, a process started around 300 AD.
@feetxxxl:
And we are all created by means of exactly one man and one woman. That is God’s design.
@feetxxxl:
Again, this is the float I don’t see at gay pride parades.
Jesus said we will be known by our works; look at any gay pride parade, look at the political goals of gays, and look at their vicious attacks upon Christians. This is evidence of their works.
You are on the wrong side of this, bigfoot, and you use your meager knowledge of the Bible in order to justify your sins. Accept your sins as your sins; do not waste your life trying to justify them to me or to God.
@Zoe Brain: Last time I looked, the earth was spherical, as are the oceans.
gary
that you would describe the nature of 325 million people on this earth by a few floats, and the activism of a small group of people is life like describing the nature of heterosexual males by their actions on college spring break or by those who regularly attend strip clubs.
please explain the relationship between your understanding of law of design and the fruit of the spirit of galatians5 and christ’s love as directed by the 2nd commandment(love neighbor)? if they are both of god then they have an inner relationship of spirit.
@feetxxxl:
This is not a difficult concept. We are all born with a sin nature. You have areas of weakness as do I. Yours is homosexual acts. It does not matter that these are things you really really really really want to do. They are still sins.
As I have said before, you need to make a choice between your own personal weakness and the Bible.
and does how my being gay come against the fruit of the spirit of galatians and the christ’s love as directed by the 2nd commandment(love neighbor ).
christ denoted the importance of knowing what comes against him(god is love)when he said in mark9: 40 for whoever is not against us is for us.
surely if it doesnt come against these which scripture said are the summation of all the law of the new covenant(romansand galatians) which is in essence christ himself, god’s righteousness, then it is of god?
@feetxxxl: “If if feels good, do it.”
Just because you “love” your boyfriend, doesn’t mean that God condones it. You have been asked over and over to explain why in the New Testament, there are scriptures stating homosexuality is wrong and all you do is parse words, dissemble and try to change the subject.
Your inability to substantially answer our questions ought to be a warning bell for your behavior. Your refusal to be honest in the debate tells us you know you are wrong, but won’t admit it.
” over to explain why in the New Testament, there are scriptures stating homosexuality is wrong”
but scripture doesnt say it, because if it did you would address my points on 1cor, 1tim, lev and romans. bottomline: the only way believers attempt to say that scripture says it is a sin, is by assigning meaning to verses in spite of the words of th0se verses, adding their own stroke to the verses, or by standing on legalities that come against the principles of the new covenant.
a bible says approach to scripture in regards to the law without any substantiation thru christ’s love attempts to put believers under the law when they are under grace, and attempts to trump the supremacy of christ with their personnal interpretation of the law.