The past week has been a showcase of the most incompetent administration we have seen since Jimmy Carter. Day after day we have watched as this administration bumbled its way throughout the Egypt crisis. They have absolutely no idea what they are doing and this alone should scare the bejesus out of you.
Talking points galore, all wrong. From Mubarak must go, to Mubarak must stay…for awhile, to Mubarak is leaving today, to “I don’t know what the flying f*** is going on but we hope the protesters are safe”
Well, that last one isn’t a quote but you get my drift.
Hell, even Obama’s Director of National Intelligence has no clue about the world he lives in. He had the utter gall to suggest the Muslim Brotherhood is a “largely secular” group.
Wh-wh-what?
“Allah is our objective; the Quran is our constitution, the Prophet is our leader; Jihad is our way; and death for the sake of Allah is the highest of our aspirations.”
They must of grown secular recently eh?
And here is Obama’s Press Secretary pretty much saying they don’t care if the Muslim Brotherhood comes into power. Yes, yes…we know it’s up to the Egyptian people but we are not going to act in our best interest? What the hell is our President supposed to do then if its not to protect this country and our interests?
I guess we can say they are consistent. How long has Obama, and his fellow leftists, been saying that the United States should stop being the world policeman? That we are just one country and no better than anyone else, nothing exceptional to see over here. Why should we act to protect ourselves and our interests? It’s the old arrogant American way that is at fault here you see.
What could go wrong with this line of thinking?
1979:
● President Carter’s U.N. ambassador, Andrew Young, called Khomeini “some kind of saint.”
● William Sullivan, the U.S. ambassador in Tehran, compared Khomeini to Gandhi.
● A State Department spokesman worried about the possibility of a military coup, saying that would be “most dangerous for U.S. interests. It would blow away the moderates and invite the majority to unite behind a radical faction.”
● On Feb. 12, 1979, Time magazine reported
. . . a sense of controlled optimism in Iran. . . . Iranians will surely insist that the revolution live up to its democratic aims. . . . Those who know [Khomeini] expect that eventually he will settle in the Shi’ite holy city of Qum and resume a life of teaching and prayer. It seems improbable that he would try to become a kind of Archbishop Makarios of Iran, directly holding the reins of power. Khomeini believes that Iran should become a parliamentary democracy, with several political parties.
● A New York Times editorial reassured readers that “moderate, progressive individuals” were advising Khomeini. The Times predicted the Ayatollah would provide “a desperately needed model of humane governance for a third-world country.”
Sound familiar?
Oh, I forgot to mention…Mubarak isn’t leaving. Instead he gave Obama the finger:
Will we all sit here and obey the Obama regime? Will we not once again, with honor stand up to our enemies? Will we not continue to stand for Egypt with honor?
Brothers, would you have me crawl away at the command of Obama? Would any of you crawl away like a dog that has been kicked? Would any of you bow down to the fools he has chosen to take our nation from us?
See author page
This is amazing. I do not have the words to describe this….
I was a young man in the military when Carter was president, I do not remember him quite this way on the Iran matter (I was to busy training in the belief that we would somehow be involved). I do remember that in time he became a bit of a joke (there were many jokes prior to him leaving office).
A breakdown in the prestige of the office of the presidency is not good for the states (and the rest of the western world) but we were lucky and RR came upon the scene (I cannot believe I would praise him now as at the time I was a bit concerned). But hindsight is twenty-twenty and RR did sort a few things out. He was not perfect (no leader is) but he displayed clarity of vision.
Who is on the wings to sort this mess out? js
a few years ago I read (and cannot now relocate) a piece on Carter, that after the revolution, instead of cracking down on the new leadership, demanding our hostages back, threatening them, etc, that instead he had written a letter to Khomeini asking “what did we do to make you angry? How can we make it up to you?” (pp)
Khomeini was said to have waved the letter around in a meeting and happily exclaimed something like “we can do anything we want!”
He said they were expecting “thunder and lightning” from the Americans after the Embassy assault. Instead they got a buttkissing letter from Carter.
Such is history, repeating itself in 3, 2, 1….
Obama loves playing president and giving speeches to dumb little college kiddies.
From Jim Hoft
Consistency is critical.
This sounds like Obama talking about Republicans. Great post, Curt.
And this surprises you?
How?
What have you, who worship the Obassiah, seen in the past two years to provide you with any other expectation? Did TOTUS burn out a fuse? Did the Smartest Man Ever To Walk The Planet suddenly get dumb?
No way. WYSIWYG.
Clueless is just a beginning. Zippy has looked in vain for some way to turn the crisis in Egypt to his own political advantage. There is none. He does not know what he does not know.
In these days of 24-hour news, Zippy and his cronies are out there in full frontal nudity, showing their complete and utter inability to deal with the real world, and now the world knows that we have a cardboard cutout (“neat and clean”) as a front man.
It has gotten so bad that he can’t even read from TOTUS anymore.
We are sooooo screwed!
You’re lucky you don’t have to walk the tight rope Obama must stride on the subject.
I had thought about making a few points in a post, but the administrations handling of the Egyptian crisis is so screwed up, I have no idea where to start. This is going to turn out much worse than the Carter’s Iranian screw-up!
Good post Curt!
@liberal1:
That “tight rope”……. he lost his footing and was neutered by it days ago.
It’s all about the Egyptian military.
Most people don’t know that their military is firmly embedded in almost every aspect of the Egyptian economy, controlling most farms, many companies, large swaths of their energy production and supply grids, the transportation industry and likewise.
Their military is already de-facto in charge of the government and it’s no accident. Dictators can only survive with the backing and “consent” of the local militia. That’s why military officers posts are appointed by dictators, not the result of actual earned promotions from within.
This morning, the crowds are now nearing the ring of security outside the Palace.
What happens next is crucial to the future path, and the reaction of their military will determine the future.
They can A) Fire on the approaching crowd, causing who-knows-what kind of carnage. B) Do nothing and let the protesters gain access to the Palace, drag out the “tyrants” and hang them or C) The best option- Do an “About Face”, enter the palace with protesters in tow, and “suggest” that all the “diplomats” inside be escorted out without being shot— or dragged out and be thrown to the wolves.
Then a Provisional Government should be set up with a definitive date set for National Elections.
That would be the best outcome for both Egypt, it’s people, and America and all democracies worldwide.
liberal1:
* That Tight rope comes with the Job description
*From Day ONE Obama was not up to the Job
*Zero Domestic Policy Experience
*Zero Foreign Policy Experience
*Appointment of Individuals with Zero successful Experience in EITHER to Critical Positions
*Total = A Recipe for FAILURE
I blame Folks like You for:
*Electing the most Un-Qualified POTUS Ever
*Continuing to Defend his Utter and Total Incompetence in Office
Want me to continue?
*Punked on Every Foreign Trade Agreement
*Punked on START
*Betrayal of Allies on START
*Our Traditional Allies view the Election of Obama as the American Electorate Lowering the Bar and They did not sign onto Treaties or Agreements with that in Mind.
I don’t know Who sent You here but if they are paying You, they should get their money back.
If You are a member of the Obama Regime, I want MY Money back!
Mubarak stepped down. Probably forced out by the military.
I hate to be picky, but this is not the first time I’m seeing this in blogs and it’s just so wrong.
They must of grown secular recently eh?
They must have grown secular recently eh?
They must’ve grown secular recently eh?
The difference between our Obama and Carter? Easy! Carter was an HONEST IDIOT, incompetant and blinded by his own illusions of right and wrong. Obama on the other hand is a lying sack of s…, pure and simple. As disgusting as it sounds, Carter at least from an moral standpoint was a thousand times the man this clown is (that’s not saying much for Carter as he was and is an accident looking for a place to happen).
@ Nostradamus, The Provisional Government is a *Military Dictatorship* and formed not in *Accordance with the Egyptian Constitution* or having any clearly defined *Expiration Date*.
In actual accordance with the Egyptian Constitution, the Speaker of the Egyptian Parliament assumes the role of Head of State in the event that the Elected President steps down until elections can be held. The Egyptian Military came into play because they *can* and *did*.
This may appear to be over simplified but consider it the “Cliffs Notes” Version. No offense intended to FA Readers but it may be useful in viewing the events as they continue to unfold. Nothing in the American experience can be called a Parallel to this. Just bear in mind the Rules and You can take it back Centuries if You wish to substitute Swords for Guns.
@ blast, Hey Pardner… You read between the lines! Good on Ya!
Waiting for the Egyptian military to start taking out The Muslim Brotherhood little by little. They will not let the Islamists destroy their way of life.
OldTrooper2: I think we’re on the same page. Your analogy is quite succinct.
It reminds me of a quote by Clint Eastwood:
During this crisis Obama also tried to foist a cadre of Muslim teachers into each and every American public school.
He was going to start with 5 school districts.
Arabic was going to be a mandatory (MANDATORY!!!) subject for ALL public school children through every grade.
But once the parents of one district got wind of it, the school had to drop it.
I have no idea if the other 4 districts are also dropping it.
It is a pilot program because, as Obama says, “Arabic is the language of the future!”
BTW, Obama and his cronies tried to ”scrub” this story off the web. To see it at all, go here.
http://ramparts360.com/uncategorized/arabic-classes-on-hold-or-not/
Well, we can discuss Obama’s overblown leanings about the importance of his heritage some other time.
But I really wanted to point out (again) how Muslims LIE.
It is called, in their Koran, Hadith, Sura, both “Kitman,” and “Taqiyya.”
In other words, INSTITUTIONAL LYING!
Kitman is telling only part of the truth.
Taqiyya is lying when necessary to further the interests of Islam.
In light of Institutionalized Lying, let’s compare the Ayatollah Khomeini’s words before taking power in Iran with after:
1. The religious dignitaries do not want to rule. (Khomeini in exile in Neauphle-le-Chateau France, October 25, 1978). (Ettelaat, October 25, 1978)
Those who pretend that religious dignitaries should not rule, poison the atmosphere and combat against Iran’s interests. (Khomeini on August 18, 1979, less than a year later and about 6 months after his triumphal return to Iran.) (Ettelaat, August 18, 1979)
2. The Islamic government will answer criticism by reason and logic. (Khomeini in exile, November 9, 1978.) (Ettellaat November 9, 1978)
I repeat for the last time: abstain from holding meetings, from blathering, from publishing protests. Otherwise I will break your teeth. (Threat issued to opponents of clerical rule by Khomeini in Iran October 22, 1979.) (p.88, The Shah and the Ayatollah : Iranian Mythology and Islamic Revolution by Fereydoun Hoveyda, 2003)
3. “… in Islam the legislative power and competence to establish laws belongs exclusively to God Almighty. … No one has the right to legislate and no law may be executed except the law of the Divine Legislator … The law of Islam, divine command, has absolute authority over all individuals and the Islamic government.” (Khomeini in exile January-February 1970.) (Islamic Government by Ayatollah Khomenei, 1970 p.55 of Islam and Revolution : Writings and Declarations of Imam Khomeini)
After the revolution, eight years of bickering over what was and what was not Islamic between Khomeini supporters in the upper (Council of Guardians) and lower (Majlis) houses of parliament changed Khomeini’s mind – someone else did have the right to legislate. Khomeini issued a fatwa declaring that Islamic government (his government) has precedence over all secondary ordinances such as prayer, fasting, and pilgrimage, (three of the five pillars of Islam!) (June 1988.) (pages 135-136, Hamid Algar, `Development of the Concept of velayat-i faqih since the Islamic Revolution in Iran,` paper presented at London Conference on wilayat al-faqih, in June, 1988)
Yet Obama and other Muslim Brotherhood apologists expect us to all accept that whatever they SAY the Muslim Brotherhood is blathering about peace with Israel, multiculturalism, secularism, etc., is to be swallowed whole!
@Old Trooper 2:
Is this why the military is saying they will supervise the vice president as he implements reform? I had read earlier that the people hate the Speaker and Vice President as much as they hate Mubarak. Since Mubarak resigned, legally the Speaker is supposed to step in for 90 days, then an election is to occur. I wonder why the military opted for Suleiman.
Some background on the Muslim Brotherhood…
The Interior Minister of Saudi Arabia, Prince Naif Ibn Abdul Aziz has stated that the Muslim Brotherhood organization was the cause of most problems in the Arab world. ‘The Brotherhood has done great damage to Saudi Arabia,’ he said. Prince Naif accused the foremost Islamist group in the Arab world of harming the interests of Muslims. ‘All our problems come from the Muslim Brotherhood. We have given too much support to this group…” “The Muslim Brotherhood has destroyed the Arab world,’ he said. ‘Whenever they got into difficulty or found their freedom restricted in their own countries, Brotherhood activists found refuge in the Kingdom which protected their lives… But they later turned against the Kingdom…’ The Muslim Brotherhood has links to groups across the Arab world, including Jordan’s main parliamentary opposition, the ‘Islamic Action Front,’ and the ‘Palestinian resistance movement, ‘Hamas.” The Interior Minister’s outburst against the Brotherhood came amid mounting criticism in the United States of Saudi Arabia’s longstanding support for Islamist groups around the world…”
The Brotherhood is widely believed to have had a “secret apparatus” responsible for attacks in Egypt, including the assassination of Mahmoud an-Nukrashi Pasha, the Egyptian Prime Minister in 1948 and the president of Egypt in 1981.
Abdul Rahman al-Amoudi was an influential lobbyist and founder and head of the Brotherhood-linked American Muslim Council before being convicted and sentenced to 23 years in prison for conspiracy to murder Saudi Prince Abdullah at the behest of Libyan leader Muammar al-Gaddafi.
Former U.S. Middle East peace envoy Dennis Ross, who told Asharq Alawsat newspaper that the Muslim Brotherhood is a global, not a local organization, governed by a Shura (Consultative) Council, which rejects cessation of violence in Israel, and supports violence to achieve its political objectives elsewhere too.
@ Missy, please refer back to the Rules for this one.
Suleiman has the Confidence of the Egyptian Military and is not viewed as a Guy that will betray them.
The heat is on Mubarak right now, not Suleiman. Our “man” Obama did not get the memo. He was busted for being in “talks” with the Muslim Brotherhood. The Saudis take a rather dim view of having their ME Community Organized by *ignorant outsiders and pretenders*, regardless of what Americans may believe. The ME is not Chicago. King Abdullah does not have to run for re-election. He runs the *Kingdom* and his Friends are part of His Neighborhood. Mubarak is one of His Friends.
I know that this is “foreign” to most Americans but the ME is not a Democracy.
Can we at least get FOX News to stop acting like they are NASCAR fans waiting for a car wreck on the track. I mean come on guys report the news, stop acting like CNN and giving us your opinion on what should happen. No one on the ground in Egypt knows what all the people in Egypt want, nor are the protestors the common voice of the country. When something happens report the facts and nothing else.
@ Aleric, Fox News, CNN and Al Jazeera can only show you whats happening on the Streets. Anyone with a Camcorder can do that. The thing You want to see is what’s happening behind closed doors in Cairo and Riyadh and “Newsies” are not invited there. I’m not trying to insult Anyone’s intelligence here.
The CIA’s top Guy, Panetta gets the same News that You do. As do the Folks in Syria and Iran that are in on this mischief. Anything You get From Clapper is just on the same level as locker room gossip that you would get in any Middle School at this point as well. We are not in on it because Our POTUS put his nose in where it did not belong.
The “Players” here are great at Poker. You don’t get to see the cards until the Hand is over and the Winner rakes in the pot.
OT, do you think it is possible that the military will be in power indefinitely?
@ Skookum, as long as they want at this point but I do expect Elections to be Held eventually and ElBaradei will not be elected. I do expect Suleiman to be in Power for some time both Pre and Post Election.
The Military will Maintain both Control and Order. That is what they View as Their Role.
OT2’s postings of the culture and its implications on Egypt and the world sent me off to research lost memories of my time there and how they apply today. One of the stops was here to a column titled “US must understand the constructive role of faith in Egypt” where several statements jumped off the screen.
Not going to happen with this regime … even if they were trying to buy a clue from Alex with their funny money.
Next was this that gives hope to what OT2 mentions about the military (CAIRO: President Mubarak stepped down on Friday, assigning the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces to run the country.) holding firm and keeping the MB and radicals in abeyance while a new government is formed.
Does give one hope that the younger Egyptian generations don’t allow this to turn out being another Iran and the forbearer of the Mayan calendar should some idiot press the destruct button.
As far as we know Egypt has no Nuclear Weapons Program.
But does anyone really not think this scenario in Egypt couldn’t happen in Pakistan?
God help us all if it does and “The Right Players” don’t win the coup d’état .
@Skookum:
That’s a good question, Skookum.
We might starve the Egyptian military IF a fundamentalist Islamic bloc takes power after September.
(Obama probably won’t, but, later, when the adults are back in charge, I mean.)
But other countries that are already Islamist might fill the gap…..IF the Egyptian military acts as their arm on Israel’s southwestern border.
But one thing is in our favor, the amazing chinziness of almost all Islamic states.
They are sparing to their own subjects and even to other Muslims in duress, like those who suffered the tsunami and some earthquakes.
They do, however, make a showy display of cash toward new friends, like Hugo Chaves and Iran.
Hey Folks…I am not a Pessimist by Nature.
We all know that having a Written Constitution or holding Elections does not Guarantee a Representative Democracy. We also know that even in the USA there is no promise of that. We do not live in a Classless Society in the States any more than in any Middle Eastern Country. There are Haves and Have Nots in every US City and State.
My Heart desires that the Military Command in Egypt urges and maintains RESTRAINT.
My Heart desires that Outsiders leave Egypt now and leave Egypt to the Egyptian People to sort out.
America included until *ASKED* by competent and legitimate Authority.
My Gut and Personal experiences tell me otherwise but I’m hoping that My Heart wins out on this one.
The ME is NOT ready for what We want for them as a Free Republic. We have over Two Centuries of that here and still have not figured all of it out. I’m just angry about the Current regime supporting a Revolutionary adventure in a Sovereign Nation that believed that We were their Allies. I am very angry that Our POTUS put his nose it in and compromised an Alliance that at best was Fragile and Offended King Abdullah enough to tell our POTUS to mind his Own Business over the phone.
Americans Do NOT understand the Cost of Meddling in the Affairs there but will if the unrest shuts down the Suez Canal.
I must remain what I call *Guardedly Optimistic* on this State of Affairs.
@ Nan, King Abdullah will provide Economic Aid to Egypt in excess of the American Aid. He has already made that promise. He has in effect told the Obama Regime and the US to stay out of it and “go fly our kites elsewhere”.
@OT2
My aggrivation is not in the amount of info coming out of Egypt but the way Fox News who I thought was impartial to have their announcers say things like, “Its time for Mubarik to go”. I don’t want their opinions, they need to simply report what is going on. Ever since this started I have seen a trend on Fox that is starting to be in step with the other networks, its very troubling.
There is the great enigma: if the president is so altruistic in his dreams of democracy in the ME, why was the uprising in Iran which was put down with a bloody show of force ignored by the TOTUS and the uprising in Egypt, that was handled without resorting to violence, a call for an immediate transition to democracy.
We have no treaty with Iran and we certainly are not allies; yet, TOTUS is so respectful of the Radical Islamist Regime in Iran, that he didn’t want to offend or was this more direction from King Abdulah. I am sure the propaganda bureaus are searching for a way to spin this contradiction, but it is difficult to say the least. Plausibility has become a factor with TOTUS as the American people become more skeptical of TOTUS and its motives.
@ Aleric, I hear you loud and clear on that. Cable or Broadcast “Newsies” are from the Opinion Mindset and not Journalists. To be frank with You my BS Detector needs re-calibration frequently. Ratings are the prime cause of it. My sources for News at present are Daily Briefings. In Briefings, the Presenter MUST state sources or be in for Questions that will get Him/Her assigned to collecting News Clippings for a Collage on poster board that will make their heads swim.
At this point, no one can predict an outcome and the BS flies too often to suit me. The Military Experts that the “Newsies” hire for credibility are folks that retired too long ago to be of any value. The fact that News Presenters are now Personalities and Celebrities gives them less credibility to me as well.
The fact that Huckabee and Geraldo Rivera are on Staff reneders the ‘product’ even less credible.
Just bear in mind, the Egyptian People have everything at risk right now and the Presenters have nothing to lose but ratings. Any guy on the streets of Cairo with a camcorder and internet access can selectively do postings to You Tube. OK?
How is it remotely possible in this educated, Interneted and connected world of ours that the Obama Administration could possibly hold the view that the Muslim Brotherhood is a secular organization?
Does the “Muslim” first half of its name not suggest otherwise?
Is the concern over energy efficiency become so overwhelming that someone has turned off the lights in the White House? . . . Or is it that there is simply no one home?
The humour for the coming weekend, will come from the likes of the New York Times pulling a pretzel maneuver to rationalize / explain / hide, the aberrant odours coming from the Oval Office.
I’m still confident that the people on the streets of Cairo won’t accept a theocracy, royalty or dictatorship to suppress them again. Too many were pulled to the streets by twitters and Facebook for the process to reverse.
The BBC blog notes that the Egyptian constitution doesn’t allow for power to devolve to the military but rather to the speaker of parliament if the president steps down.
What is Suleiman’s status right now?
Is he the power behind the throne making executive decisions?
Is he the de facto head of the council itself?
Or is he out too along with Mubarak?
Obama’s apologist are trying to devolve the credit to Obama.
I think they should wait.
This might end badly.
Give Zero the credit?
Nope. If the Transition goes well, I will give the Egyptian Military the credit for exercising restraint and being responsive to the People of Egypt. This is far from over yet and too soon to call.
@Old Trooper 2:
Don’t celebrate too soon…..
Now, the old is swept away.
60% of Egyptians want Sharia.
60% of Egyptians feel that the Muslim Brotherhood is the best way forward.
IF the military ever allows voting it looks like another Sharia state is being created.
But that’s only IF a vote takes place.
Boy.. that’ll disappoint the big Zero. He so wants credit for his meddling on the wrong side of the issue.
@Old Trooper 2, as usual you are right on the money. I can’t help but laugh at those that call this a “pro democracy” movement. Last I looked, a pro democracy movement would have respect for the existing rule of law, enter the system and change it legally. Not just toss a regime out for a void. The two biggies in the movement are five “student” groups, who are aligned with el Baradei (along with Mr. Google exec, Ghonim). But then el Baradei isn’t even a “leader” who is involved in the negotiations.
The other powerhouse in the opposition… in fact the only real opposition force in the nation… is the Muslim Brotherhood. And I was wondering when someone would dig out my 2008 post on the MB’s stealth campaign to seize power… play nice, talk a good game via social media (focusing on the youth), gain power, then turn the nation on it’s ear. In fact, I have my suspicions that the five coalition “youth groups” are quite entangled with the MB, and have been from the onset.
But back to the subject at hand. A “pro democracy” movement that seeks to usurp the country’s Constitution for “reform”. ORSAM’s center for ME studies ran an Egptian Constitution primer for dummies article a few days ago. It explains, within current context of Egyptian law, how such transitions, resignations, and power transfers are accomplished. The thugs in the street didn’t care that it was being embarked upon using existing law. They wanted a void of power now.
The military is not the Constitutional heir of power in such an instance. It’s either a VP or the Speaker of the Parliament in other instances. In most cases, elections are triggered within 60 days… too short of a time to mount a genuine “free election”. The “independent” candidates… the only way the outlawed MB can stand for election… must have 65 votes from the Parliament, 25 votes from the Council of State, and the support of 140 members of provincial councils elected in 14 provinces in accordance with geographical dispersion. Reality dictates that only the current majority, the National Democratic Party, can nominate an “indy” candidate.
This whole thing is FUBAR’ed, and a long way from respect of democracy and law. This is no different that if the birthers hit the streets, and demanded that our Constitutional rules of law and succession are ignored and changed because they are the loudest at the moment… and are busy shutting down the nation’s economy.
I call this thug rule by a loud minority. But then, it’s Egypt’s call. On our shores, Obama is zero for three… first shunning Iranians genuine pro democracy election protests, meddling in Honduras and their eviction of a wannabe dictator using their Constitutional law (much to Obama and his SOS’s chagrin), and now over meddling in Egypt… tossing an Israeli and US ally to the MB wolves. The street thugs managed to convince a world that Egypt’s Constitution needed to be usurped in their quest for “freedom”, and refused to allow the process to go forth as their rule of law mandated.
I call that a really bad start for a “new” Egypt.
INRE the MB being the favored stepson… the WSJ had an article by YAROSLAV TROFIMOV in May 2009. MB, like Hamas, was trying to make inroads with the population by being the welfare nanny guardian of the poor. However they were being outflanked by the majority power, even in the MB stronghold of Alexandria. Their services and money collection was, evidently, not really going for the services and the ruling party lawmaker there… who opened his own competition clinic… blew the socks of the pathetic clinics offered by the MB.
Then there is the MB’s legislative history itself, which has alienated quite a large number of the population.
But now the impatient street thugs have created a vacuum, where Constitutional procedures have been thrown away in the interest of “freedom”. Interesting concept in itself. For those that may have pined for genuine reform, they will now find themselves at the mercy of whomever the military chooses to throw their weight behind. Because they have just shown that rule of law has no place in their “new Egypt”.
As Aye and many say here… what have they won? They may be quite disappointed to receive their winnings in the future. But one thing is certain… this is not going to be an Arab democracy by any standards.
Old Trooper: I’m betting the U.S. military was in close communication with their Egyptian counterparts the entire time, although Obama didn’t have a clue. Comments?
I’m not OT, John Cooper…. but I’d say that if it wasn’t on CNN, and Panetta wasn’t watching the coverage at the moment, the Zero has been clueless all along. Intel my butt…. LOL
None of this should have been unexpected because of the uproars the MB was making in December with elections and accusations of fraud and intimidation. But Mr. know it all and his admin were asleep at the wheel, noting how “stable” the existing government was. Mubarak, like most Muslim leaders, walks a fine line to keep the radical elements in his country from achieving power. How they achieve that is none of my concern, but I can say that I see the same kinds of concern, and not too distant “solutions” offered, here in the US when someone brings up the “creeping Shariah” argument.
I can’t say that I agree with all Mubarak’s methods, but I have respect that he honored treaties of peace, and was a US ally. I also note that when Musharraf disappeared.. who worked behind the scenes to control Pakistan’s radical elements with the US in not so dissimilar ways … the power and activity of the terrorists in that nation has increased exponentially.
No Muslim nation of Islam will ever be a western style nation of freedom. Not my concern, nor is it my quest. What is my concern is that they find ways to control their own radicals, and assist the free world in the GWOT with intel, and maintain some reasonable coexistance with Israel. That, I suspect has disappeared down the toilet bowl. But only time will tell. But I suspect the foreign policy Pollyanna’s of the world are going to find themselves quite disappointed on how this plays out. And I truly hope I am wrong.
@ John Cooper, I will invoke My 5th Amendment Rights on that one. But I can tell You that close relationships are there and were established Decades ago. Operation Bright Star is a well known Joint US and Egyptian Military Exercise that You can Google for further details.
Mata, you are spot on in places in your #42.
But where we disagree is that I recognize the necessarily expansionist nature of Islam while you seem to believe you can ignore what goes on because it is almost always over there and not here.
Islam discourages Horatio Algers.
It likes keeping the vast majority of its own people very poor.
It condenses all wealth into a few hands.
Then, paternalistically, they dole some little bit out to friends, never enemies.
Islam requires new conquests because it is not self-sustaining for its constantly growing population.
Eventually, and I admit not knowing how old you are, so it may be after your time, Islam will expand to here in the USA.
Then we will fight or we will have Sharia.
Unless we stop it, just like the French did and the Austrians did 900 years ago.
Maybe there is time for one more generation to keep its collective head in the sand, but they also say, ”a stitch in time, saves nine.”
Actually Nan G, not quite a correct interpretation of my “hands off” ‘tude. It’s not that I am not “concerned” with what happens over there. It’s just that I don’t support that this nation is to dictate what happens over there.
As I said, for Mubarak, taking stringent measures to control the MB in that nation, and their inroads to their governance, he is labeled “a dictator” by too many here in the US. By our standards, he probably is. But then, Egypt’s standards are not ours.
Would I like to incorporate those measures in the US? Not on your life.
As far as age, if Islam expands here to the point you often note you fear, I’ll long be recycled. As it is, I’m chasing the (most likely) ever moving goalposts of SS and Medicare. My focus is on the future of my granddaughter. Mine has already been altered from “the golden years” to “the aluminum years”.
Bill O’Reilly called it “a great day for Egypt and a great day for America.” Said “the only violence came from the Mubarek thugs.”He complemented BHO on his handling of the events. Concur.
JOHN COOPER #40 As previously agreed we pretty much own the Egyptian army and Gates and Obama were assuredly “IN CONTACT” throughout.
Mata I expect your “aluminum years” will be a lot better than most’s golden years.
gosh darn, rich… if O’Reilly said it, it *must* be gospel, eh? LOL
Did you have a point that we must be missing? Like, perhaps, O’Reilly is the be all, end all things conservative and/or real? OMG….
Well, from your lips to the Congressional ears INRE the “aluminum years” for all of we baby boomers, rich. Of which, from what I gather, you are part of as well.
So let’s go back to the “only pro-Mubarak” force violence claim.
Does your endearing, if not somewhat naive, “dreamer” penchant demand you ignore assassination attempts on the veep, or the armed aid of prisoner escapes as being immune from “violence”? Surely there is no way you can argue either event is a part of a “pro Mubarak” movement, right? And while we’re at it, do you believe a police force… albeit corrupt… simply assaults a “peaceful” crowd without some sort of threat or provocation?
And on a further point, does a “pro democracy” movement demand usurping Constitutional law and succession procedures as part of their “freedom”?
Gee whiz, Mata…sorry to disturb you.Please do carry on with your take.
Some of Carter’s and Brzezinski’s other comments praising the evil Ayatollah.
http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a0279defactoalliance#a0279defactoalliance
Here is their reasoning for allowing the Shah to be deposed:
There is widespread discontent and rioting in Iran at the time. State Department official Henry Precht will later recall that Brzezinski had the idea “that Islamic forces could be used against the Soviet Union. The theory was, there was an arc of crisis, and so an arc of Islam could be mobilized to contain the Soviets.” [Scott, 2007, pp. 67] In November 1978, President Carter appointed George Ball head of a special White House Iran task force under Brzezinski. Ball recommends the US should drop support for the Shah of Iran and support the radical Islamist opposition of Ayatollah Khomeini. This idea is based on ideas from British Islamic expert Dr. Bernard Lewis, who advocates the balkanization of the entire Muslim Near East along tribal and religious lines. The chaos would spread in what he also calls an “arc of crisis” and ultimately destabilize the Muslim regions of the Soviet Union.
genius, sheer idiotic genius Destabilized the Muslim world alright, but not in the Soviet Union but in the M.E. Hmmm, kind of sounds like Obama on Egypt
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110211/D9LAS3U00.html
Analysis: Military coup was behind Mubarak’s exit
CAIRO (AP) – It was the people who forced President Hosni Mubarak from power, but it is the generals who are in charge now. Egypt’s 18-day uprising produced a military coup that crept into being over many days – its seeds planted early in the crisis by Mubarak himself.
The telltale signs of a coup in the making began to surface soon after Mubarak ordered the army out on the streets to restore order after days of deadly clashes between protesters and security forces in Cairo and much of the rest of the Arab nation.
“This is in fact the military taking over power,” said political analyst Diaa Rashwan after Mubarak stepped down and left the reins of power to the armed forces. “It is direct involvement by the military in authority and to make Mubarak look like he has given up power.”
Army troops backed by tanks and armored fighting vehicles were given a hero’s welcome by the protesters angry over brutal treatment by the police. The goodwill was reciprocated when the military vowed not to use force against protesters, a move that set them apart from the much-hated police who operated with near impunity under Mubarak.
The generals adopted a go-slow approach, offering Egyptians carefully weighed hints that it was calling the shots. They issued statements describing the protesters’ demands as “legitimate” and made halfhearted calls on the demonstrators to go home and allow normal life to resume.
Rather than quit the protests, the demonstrators turned out in ever greater numbers. Mubarak offered one concession after another, but they all fell short of the protesters’ demands that he immediately leave.
The military was clearly torn between its loyalty to the regime and the millions of protesters. Mubarak is one of their own, a former air force commander and a hero of the 1973 Arab-Israeli war.
But as the president continued to defy the growing crowds and cling to power, the Egyptian army moved more definitively toward seizing control for the first time in some 60 years.
Thursday brought the surprise announcement that the armed forces’ highest executive body, the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, was in “permanent session” – meaning that it was on a war footing.
State TV showed Defense Minister Hussein Tantawi presiding over a table seating some two dozen stern faced generals in combat fatigues – but no sign of commander in chief Mubarak. His newly appointed vice president, former army general and intelligence chief Omar Suleiman, was not there either – indicating a rift between the civilian and military leadership.
A statement, tellingly referred to as “communique number 1” – phrasing that in the Arab world suggests a coup – made no mention of Mubarak or Suleiman.
The council, it said, met to “discuss what measures and arrangements could be taken to safeguard the homeland and its achievements and the aspirations of the great Egyptian people.”
Translation: The generals are in charge, not Mubarak, not Suleiman nor the Cabinet.
The communique set the stage for what the crowds of demonstrators expected would be Mubarak’s resignation Thursday night. Instead, Mubarak announced he would stay in office and hand over power to Suleiman, who told protesters to go home and stop watching foreign news reports.
The protesters were furious – and so were the generals.
“Both of last night’s addresses by Mubarak and Suleiman were in defiance of the armed forces,” Maj. Gen. Safwat el-Zayat, a former senior official of Egypt’s General Intelligence, told al-Ahram Online, the Internet edition of Egypt’s leading daily, on Friday.
Protest leaders pleaded for the military to take over after Mubarak’s speech, saying the country would explode until the army intervened.
If Mubarak had stepped down, handing Suleiman his presidential powers in line with the constitution would have kept his regime largely intact after he had gone, something that would have left the protesters unhappy.
In contrast, a military coup would provide a clean break with a regime they hated for so long, opening up a wide range of possibilities – suspending the constitution that many protesters saw as tailored to keep Mubarak in office and dissolving a parliament formed by an election marred by widespread fraud. A coup seemed to be the best way forward.
The first official word the protesters received from the generals on Friday, however, was discouraging.
A second military communique contained what appeared to be a reluctant endorsement of Mubarak’s blueprint for a way out of the crisis, though it also projected the military as the ultimate guarantor of the country’s highest interests. El-Zayat said the language in the statement was an attempt to avoid an open conflict.
Later Friday, with millions out on the streets demanding that he step down, Mubarak finally did just that. He may have been denied the chance to announce his own departure – say goodbye to the people he had ruled for nearly 30 years. Suleiman announced the decision for him.
Alternatively, he may have not wanted to go on television to say he was stepping down after less than 24 hours after insisting to serve out the remaining seven months of his current term.
It was a humiliating end.
Keeping up appearances, The military later issued a third military statement praising Mubarak as a leader who has done much to his country. It hinted that the military would not be in power for long, saying the armed forces were not a substitute for a legitimate administration. But it gave no clue as to what its plans are.
“The truth is that even the senior military now at the top of the power structure under Mubarak almost certainly have no clear idea of what happens next,” Anthony Cordesman of the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies, wrote in a commentary on Thursday. “It will be days before anyone know how well the transition will function, who goes and who stays, and how stable the result really is.”
—
Hendawi is the AP chief of bureau in Cairo.
Mata #48 I’ ve read varying reports on the veep assassination attempt.From it’s validity to who was responsible.Do you have verified specifics? Seems security guards fled primarily in fear, allowing prisinor escape.Haven’t read of major armed confrontation facilitating escape.Also haven’t seen evidence of their, or M.B’s participation in protests.That’s why I ‘ve tuned out CNN for FOX.
Nostradamus #50 OUTSTANDING any predictions?
I’m going to ask this again, rich. Do you think pro Mubarak forces would attempt to assassinate the veep? Do you think armed and planned escapes are perpetrated by pro Mubarak forces?
From The Jakarta Post on Jan 30th…
Needless to say, if you didn’t read of any armed confrontation, facilitating escape, it’s because you didn’t bother to click on my previous links to you on this. Please do not come back with more feigned ignorance, and try to remember it this time. Since a few inmates died in that escape, I find it odd you seem to remember guards, fleeing in supposed fear. Wonder who shot those inmates then… their abetters? You know, those “pro Mubarak” types? LOL
INRE the assassination attempt, an Egyptian security source who refused to be named is the only one who denied it. The out-the-door press mouth, Gibbs, deftly sidestepped talking about it and didn’t deny that US had confirmed it’s validty. Let’s see… one anonymous Eqyptian says “hang no”, US confirms the reports, and Gibbs ain’t talking.. and definitely not denying it. hummmm….
Richard Wheeler:
I think Israel is in deep-doo-doo.
The Muslim Brotherhood is perfectly positioned now to exert great influence, if not outright control, over Egypt in the coming year. The Egyptian Army of 2011 is far superior to anything Israel has faced in the past, with a reported 300 F-16s and thousands of M1 Abrams Tanks, with sophisticated American-made air defense and offensive weapons.
And it gets worse if the MB gets hold of power. The arms flows to Hamas in Gaza almost certainly will increase not just in quantity but in quality with diminished Egyptian adherence to peace; Lebanon is under the hegemony of Hezbollah; and two of the most repressive and anti-Israel regimes — Iran and Syria — are treated with kid gloves. Who knows what will happen in Jordan.
Obama might be setting up the area for all-out war, and Israel should be very fearful for its very survival. Obama has undercut allies and into that vacuum will step the worst elements, emboldened by this pattern of the United States abandoning its allies.
Maybe it all will work out. Perhaps Egyptians will embrace an open society and peace, and the Egyptian model will undermine the tyrannical regimes in Syria and Iran. But I’m not optimistic.
Curt, respectfully, I must disagree with your header. It did not require this crisis to define Øbowma as incompetent; there was ample evidence of this when he was still in Illinois. His occupation of the Oval Office has been solely a continuing litany of far more dramatic examples of him as the ultimate poster boy for The Peter Principle. This shallow fumbling charlatan couldn’t tie shoe laces without color coded diagrams on his Teleprompter. If the United States survives, even as a weakened shadow of its former glory, until 2013, it will be entirely despite Øbowma, not because of anything he has done or will do.