I know are very own Aye was at the Restoring Honor rally in DC and I’m looking forward to hearing a report from him. Until then, an awesome speech was given by pro-life activist Dr. Alveda King, niece of Dr. Martin Luther King, in which she says “I too have a dream!”
Plenty more where that came from….take a look at the turnout:
And the biased MSM is a bit peeved over this turnout, and the reaction to the turnout.
They can be peeved all they want…in fact that can blow it out their a*&. The citizens of this country are pissed and will not just sit idly by as the Democrats tear this country to pieces.
Sarah Palin’s speech is a must see:
An awesome rally that I wish I could of been a part of.
A message was sent tho…..
The one can relax in his ivory tower as long as you can, but we will not stay silent forever because we will be waiting patiently until November.
More videos from The Constitution Club
All three hours and 28 minutes of the rally can be viewed at – Restoring Honor Rally
See author page
I see that the resident amateur agnostic/quasi-atheist theologian continues to try and pontificate on matters of scripture and, while in the process of doing so, demonstrates a remarkable level of intellectual dishonesty and/or outright willful and arrogant ignorance of the subject matter.
@Aye…
I do believe the boy is cherry picking scripture…. Perhaps he should take a look at the next verse.
DONALD BLY: YOU beat me BY one LIGHTNING, THAT must be EARL”S WIFE, HURRICANE here,
I had a thunder right above my head, my dog jump on me like a maniac ,
I fell down the chair with him on top of me, that’s my german sheffard;
pouring rain horizontaly with a eastern wind blowing toward west ,
congratulation, I can say, you where lucky this time, but not anymore.
@Donald Bly:
You are quite correct. That is indeed what he is doing.
The “judge not” passage is one of the most often misunderstood, misquoted, and misapplied passages in the Bible.
It is used by both believers and non-believers as a means by which to ignore or get away with whatever that particular person is choosing to do.
Further study of the entire passage reveals that the instructions are being given to a hypocrite, one who is judging the behavior of others while engaging in similar behaviors.
If Gaffer were truly interested in what the scripture says about judging others, I would suggest that he read Matthew 7:15-16, John 7:24, 2 Peter 2, Galations 2:11-14, 1 Corinthians 2:15-16, 2 Timothy 3:16-17, 1 John 4:1.
Of course, as an amateur agnostic/quasi-atheist theologian, Gaffer is not able to understand the things of God (1 Cor 2:14), therefore his postings here on this subject matter are not all surprising.
RODGERS marine remains was honored bye A MAJORITY in GEORGIA ,roads block with trafic stop to honor and respect his death for FREEDOM. in GRIFFIN
Once again, proving what a class act he is…
I stand by my remark that his mother must be SO proud.
I consider myself a Christian, however, I do not hold to the idea that the New Testament “Bible” is the infallible word of God. The books that make up the New Testament were chosen by men at the Council of Nicea – convened by a newly converted Emperor Constantine who had a political agenda.
I’d like to get my hands on Thomas Jefferson’s book that only contains the words of Christ. This is the kind of Christianity to which I profess. My own personal feelings are that too many people place the doctrine of Paul ahead of that of Christ. I am not a Paulist. This philosophy creates a tempest of accusations from those that believe the New Testament as compiled by the men at the Council of Nicea is to be believed without question.
But then again… my salvation is not dependent upon anyone’s belief system but my own.
@Donald
And what did Jesus say about this….
Matthew 5:17-20
Maybe Jesus was ignorant then as well? lol
Of course you can pick and choose which bits of the Bible you wish to accept or reject in a la carte fashion if you wish but Jesus words weren’t directly written by him – they were written down many years later by others – so not eactly reliable and if the quote by him is true Jesus demands that people follow the Jewish laws and prophets.
@Aye
Exactly my point – Anticrocks has been judging and hyprocritical on this thread.
Boy I must really get to Gaffa, he can’t even make a post without mentioning me. 😆
anticrocks: hi, YOU know, I ‘m not sure but usualy, It means, love,
YOU describe it perfectly. bye sh sh YOU dont want to wake up the little brat.
@Gaffa
In 5:17 Christ tells us he has come to fulfill, not destroy the law.
In 5:18 Not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law… but which law?
5:19 tells us which law… the Commandments. The only law written by the hand of God.
Subsequent passages through to the end of the chapter further refine the 10 Commandments so we can be certain that taken in context, the law Christ was describing was in fact the 10 Commandments.
Really Gaffa…. if you stop cherry picking and actually read the full passage you might someday begin to get an understanding, but only if you are truly seeking understanding.
@Donald
Clearly Jesus is going beyond the Commandments and that the law he is refering to is the Mosaic law which includes the commandments but also includes a lot more things. If it was just the 10 commandments then why mention divorce, oaths, eye for an eye, love thy neighbour? Why mention Law and not just mention Commandments? Why mention Prophets & Pharisees?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaic_law
Gotcha ilovebees, lol!! 🙂
@Gaffa
The 10 Commandments are in reference to which “law” he was talking about. This is further evidenced by the verses following.
To further bolster the idea that the “law” to which he was referring was not past traditions of Judaic law one can point to his admonitions concerning those subjects as evidenced by Matthew 5:38-39
Concerning Prophecy… a prophet is a prophet, the coming of Christ in no way negates the validity of their prophecies.
Additionally… Orthodox Jews perform no work at all on the Sabbath… they won’t even turn on a light switch yet Christ says in Matthew 12:11-12:
But… bottom line.. I’m not really here to debate biblical interpretation as that ultimately boils down to one’s individual relationship with God and God’s revelations to the individual of what is required of him by God as revealed through that relationship. Religion is an institution of men, spirituality is the inter-relationship between an individual and God. This in turn brings me back to the 10 Commandments which were the only laws so important to mankind that God wrote them in stone with His own finger so that there would be no misinterpretation.
DONALD BLY: hi, YOUR 2 last line above, are telling me
That GOD started the FIRST BLOG with only his finger.
bye
Bees… you have such a wonderful way of looking at things…. I imagine one could describe the Ten Commandments as God’s first Blog.
Ten Commandments = God’s First Blog Rules
@Donald
Unfortunately Christians can’t even decide amongst themselves the interpretation of the Sermon on the Mount!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expounding_of_the_Law
No misinterpretation – Really? Seem there’s plenty of misinterpretation…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments
You may claim the 10 commandments were written by God but even Jesus starts reinterpret them. And even Jesus can’t be consistent or avoid being a hypocrite…
Matthew 5:22
“Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?”
Matthew 23:19
and
Matthew 5:44
Luke 19:27
That’s fine if people kept their ‘God’ to themselves rather than trying to push it onto others. However plenty of Christians (along with people from other religions) vocally condemns others and try to change laws so it follows their religion. Nations should seperate Church and State irrespective on whether their country was built on one particular religion or not.
As for Glenn Beck – who wants you all to turn to God how would he fare?
Matthew 19:23-24
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1924348-3,00.html
😆
Gaffa… looks like you have no trouble at all pushing YOUR non-belief at other and most amazing use the bible to try and justify your position… a futile exercise….
And I don’t think Glenn Beck will have any trouble with his God… You however seem to be unable to do anything but cherry pick scripture leaving out the relevant verses to fit your notions…
Concerning Glenn’s chances as a rich man…. Matthew 19:23-26
This is like dueling with an unarmed opponent!
@Donald
I think discussing such issues on a forum is quite different from knocking on doors, telling people they are going to hell if they don’t believe, trying to get religion into the science class room and changing laws etc etc. And why not use the Bible to show how ‘holey’ it is. How can anyone follow the Bible without cherry-picking – due to the contradictions?
Lets go back a bit and add 21-22 and see what Jesus recommends…
Reckon Beck will be selling his possessions anytime soon? 😆
I see you didn’t arm yourself with any scientific facts that prove the existence of God. Why should anyone believe in any God? And yet science which has evidence of evolution etc remains controversial by many religious people who are happy to swallow creation myths and fairytales without any credible evidence.
I see you kept quiet on my assertion that Christians cant even agree amongst themselves on the interpretation of the Sermon on the Mount nor the 10 commandments. And that Jesus is a hypocrite – where he advocates one thing and later contradicts himself.
GAFFA UK: hi, JESUS did not say to the rich to be stupid,
WITH their wealth, RICH, employ many to carry on the multiple tasks
they need done to carry on their business, THIS is a way to share their WEALTH,
even if it’s a need for them.so JESUS MEANT many things in one sentence, IT’s for the beleiver to use wisdom to understand and use logic.
Wisdom and logic are traits seldom exhibited by progressives. I’ll leave it to Gaffa to describe Christ as a hypocrite.
LOL, maybe we should also provide scientific proof of sub-atomic particles, or anti-matter. Both those things I just listed are taken as fact by the scientific community, but there lies no actual proof that they exist.
However, since Gaffa is intent on needing some scientific proof, well we should turn to Godel:
Okay Gaffa, now that you have been thoroughly rebutted, let me add one more tiny little thing.
Please answer this question, if you will:
This is not a trick, and I won’t hurl any insults at you since they seem to really bother you. I am only asking that you answer my question with intellectual honesty.
@Ilovebees
Jesus is saying if you want to be perfect then sell your possessions and give to the poor not employ people and potentially gain even more wealth – as it is difficult (but not impossible) for a rich man to enter in heaven. Of course the rich and those who believe in capitialism will try desperately to ‘reinterpret’ that – so they can keep their wealth. Unfortunately sounds like Jesus is a naive communist.
@Donald
Keep dodging my questions eh? For someone who presumably thinks they are armed you have become quite shy in combat – lol
@Anticrocks
There is scientific proof of sub-atomic particles
You only have to look at the work and experiments of Einsten, Arthur Compton, JJ Thompson, Ernest Rutherford, James Chadwick, Clyde Cowan, Frederick Reines, Carl D. Anderson, etc. And what further proof do you want that scientists have found and harnessed sub-atomic particles than with nuclear power and weapons!
There is scientific proof of antimatter
It has been artifically created – e.g. Positrons,Antihydrogen and antihelium
Godel’s ontological argument for the existence of God is not scientific proof of God it is merely philosophy masquerading as mathematics. It boils down to the old fallacy that if we can imagine something therefore it must exist. I can imagine the infamous invisible flying spaghetti monster – therefore does that constitute as scientific evidence of it’s existence? lol:D
You’re really going to have to try harder than that….
#124 – sure I’ll answer that question once you’ve answered my previous questions on #84
Well Gaffa. I guess you are incapable of answering this little question –
Is your life worth more or less than any other human life on this planet?
I already stated that I believe we need the TMO we get from religious beliefs to conduct ourselves appropriately as a society.
I answered you, now please tell me if your life is worth more or less than any other life on this planet we call Earth.
@Anticrocks
Just to be clear…
Your answer to the above is yes???
As for your question…
From who’s point from view? And what do you mean by worth?
@Gaffa – Stop trying to dissemble and just answer the question.
Do you feel that your life is worth more or less than any other human’s life here on Earth?
@anticrocks
I believe my life is worth more than some humans and less than others here on Earth.
Now you…
Do you feel that your life is worth more or less than any other human’s life here on Earth?
GAFFA UK” hi, I can say that those who have the job to protect our FREEDOM are worth the top prize, , they are the first one to leave this EARTH, UNFORTUNATLY. bye
@Gaffa: You said:
Gaffa, by answering that your life is worth more than or less than any other random person’s life on this earth you have proven that mankind is much, much, MUCH better off because of Judeo-Christian theology and the value system that arises from it.
This most basic idea did not exist in the Western world until the days of Jesus and the writings of what would become the Bible, comes from the Judeo-Christian value system. It is that every single human life is sacred; no one life is worth more or less than any other life because man is created in the image of a loving and all-mighty God.
This idea did not exist anywhere on this planet. In the much admired classical civilizations of Greece and Rome it was not only acceptable, but widely practiced that if your wife bore a son that was deformed in any way, it was okay to kill it. And further, if you had a perfectly healthy baby girl, it was equally okay to kill her in order that you might get a son the next time.
This idea does not come to us from our own sentience, we do not reason our way to this for if that were possible, then it would not have taken the Bible to introduce this to our planet. This concept of human life being precious was truly revolutionary to mankind. Prior to this, if you murdered a rich man, your penalty was much more severe than if you murdered a poor man, if you were penalized at all. Slavery was common and could not occur unless it was widely accepted that one race or ethnicity or class of people was superior to another.
The root of Nazi-ism lies in the fact that Hitler felt the Aryan race was superior and worth more than all other races. Communism, Marxism and Socialism all depend on class warfare; that is one class being envious of another class in society. This class warfare could not be possible if those philosophers that brought us Communism, Marxism or Socialism believed that all human life is precious.
Therefore, mankind would be wallowing in and have had to endure infinitely more infanticide; racism and eugenics than it has suffered already, were it not for religion and the Judeo-Christian value system that arose from it.
This makes you first statement patently false. And since this has become such a long thread, and since I don’t want you accusing me of putting words in your mouth, let me refresh the memories of everyone on this board exactly what you said:
Thank you for the lively debate, and now why not show some class and just admit that what you said, which everyone else here on this board agrees on, was wrong. It was and is false and very apparent that your statement came from emotion and not logical thinking.
@Anticrocks
lol – exactly how does that proof anything?
Why just use the western world? Hinduism, Buddhism and Shinto in the East values life as sacred and predates Christ. And for some Native Americans and Pagans traditions – all life is sacred. So Judeo-Christianity has no exclusive claim on this idea.
And if Christianity believe all life is sacred then why is there so much genocide and murder in the Bible as I have outlined above?
Why weren’t the Egyptian first born lives treated as sacred?
If Jesus believed all life is sacred then why did he want to slay his enemies?
It is lie to believe that we live in an equal world where all lives are worth the same. It is a lie in the Declaration of Independence (which has some good things to say generally) that men are created equal. Clearly looking at the world people are born in poverty whilst some are born into wealth. Some are born with disabilities whilst others are not. And unless you believe in an afterlife (where you may be judged and not treated the same)- death is the only equaliser.
Also do you think all lives should be worth the same as others even though it is patently not currently the case?
If a ship was sinking do you think people should draw straws randomly rather than having women and children first?
Do you think your country should treat all those on earth equally rather than have preferential treatment to its own citizens?
Do you think dropping a bomb on Hiroshima was wrong because many thousands of innocent Japanese died?
Do you think it is wrong for a man to look and protect his own family over any other random people?
Do you think capital-punishment is wrong for serial killers – as all life is sacred?
btw – the nazi had ‘God is With Us’ on their belt buckles.
Communists wanted everyone to be equal – which is why that is such an evil doctrine when put into practise. Similar thing to anyone who believes that all lives should be worth the same. Nice idea – but deeply foolish if you took more than one minute to think about the consequences if that was put into action.
Hard to imagine more infanticide; racism and eugenics that has been done in the name of God – particularly one whose book actively encourages it.
Let’s see how your ‘logic’ stands up. I see you have already abandoned the laughable ‘logic’ and ‘science’ of Godel in trying to proof there is a God.
@Antirocks…. of course Gaffa believes his life is worth more than others, it’s a core belief of progressives and key to the eugenics plank in their platform. Some people “are” worth more than others… that’s why they hate the judeo-christian philosophy, it takes away the power of some bureaucrat to play at god as they play “death panel” with upcoming health care decisions.
@Donald
Clearly you don’t understand the meaning of Eugenics…
Which I have not advocated and naturally you had to miss the ‘and less’ below…
See if you can answer my questions…
If a ship was sinking do you think people should draw straws randomly rather than having women and children first?
Do you think your country should treat all those on earth equally rather than have preferential treatment to its own citizens?
Do you think dropping a bomb on Hiroshima was wrong because many thousands of innocent Japanese died?
Do you think it is wrong for a man to look and protect his own family over any other random people?
Do you think capital-punishment is wrong for serial killers – as all life is sacred?
And btw – have you since checked the various interpretations of 10 commandments and agree that your earlier assertion ‘that God wrote them in stone with His own finger so that there would be no misinterpretation.’ is in fact incorrect insomuch there is plenty of misinterpretation within the Judeo-Christian religions?
@Gaffa….. the ship has sailed and you are firmly planted in the center of the dock. You attempt to equate the actions of imperfect men with the intent of God. Since you don’t believe you will never understand how God could cherish each soul equally regardless of the corporeal condition. You instead drape your worldly viewpoint and bias all that you see.
You ask for proof of God… but for what purpose. It serves me not to convince you that there is a God. And if you never come to that belief, it will still matter naught to me.
@Donald
I have no intention on getting the leaky and holey ship that is Christianity. It is curiousity why you guys have blind faith and try to convert other without any convincing evidence. I guess that is why the proportion of Christians is falling in the developed world.
It’s just not imperfect men but God and Jesus who treat people differently as shown in the Bible. Again – where was God’s love for the first born of the Egyptians? He obviously treated the Israelites lives as more important than the lives of innocent children.
And I guess those five questions were too difficult for you.
So you really don’t value your family lives more than any other random people on this earth?
At the end of the day there is no scientific proof of God – and no proof that he treats all lives as scared. As otherwise why would so many people perish in wars and natural disasters? Oh is that free will? Then why does God supposedly intervene in some ‘apparent’ cases and not others?
@Donald Bly – Thank you. It is clear that Gaffa has an understanding deficiency and he clearly fell for the question I posed him. Just the fact that he didn’t catch it proves that he misses the entire point. Had you or I or probably most who believe in the TMO and the Civil Society been asked that question, we would have unerringly answered that all life is precious. I don’t presume to speak for you, but you so eloquently commented and I am speaking to that.
@Gaffa: lol, where oh where do I start? You really just don’t get it, and that is sad. You are thrashing about, grasping at any and all straws to try and debunk what I am professing. That is evident by all your random questions that you threw into your last post. I never said all lives were equal, that is your liberal drone left brain kicking in. What the TMO and the Judea-Christian ideals that led to it are saying is that ALL LIFE IS PRECIOUS.
I said the Western World, because we live in the Western World. I was looking for a frame of reference, but if you must, then consider this. There has been infanticide in Asia in general and China in particular since at least 800 BC. Also, infanticide has been with us since prehistoric times. As for the Native Americans, well you obviously don’t know what they did when twins were born.
Please at least look things up before you spout off.
To reference what was on the belt buckles of Nazis is, well trivial and extraneous.
You said:
Our Declaration of Independence says that all men are created equal. That is we all get, under the American system of a Democratic Republic, the same chances to advance ourselves. We get to keep our property, the fruits of our labor – although I will grant that today under our present system of government (small “g”), it is much more difficult to hold onto the fruits of one’s labor. Our Declaration of Independence does not say that all men are guaranteed to be equal in outcomes, just that we all get the same chances to pursue happiness.
Again, your comments just prove that you cannot get your head around this idea of liberty for all.
You also said:
I don’t need to prove anything. I just mentioned someone who had done research on the sacred “scientific proof” you kept harping on.
I will admit you are entertaining, though.
@Anticrocks
Except you didn’t ask me if all life is precious you asked ‘Do you feel that your life is worth more or less than any other human’s life here on Earth?’. Answering all life is precious doesn’t answer that question UNLESS you believe all lives are worth the same value…- so I’ll ask again…
If Christianity believe all life is sacred then why is there so much genocide and murder in the Bible as I have outlined above?
Why weren’t the Egyptian first born lives treated as sacred?
If Jesus believed all life is sacred then why did he want to slay his enemies
If a ship was sinking do you think people should draw straws randomly rather than having women and children first?
Do you think your country should treat all those on earth equally rather than have preferential treatment to its own citizens?
Do you think dropping a bomb on Hiroshima was wrong because many thousands of innocent Japanese died?
Do you think it is wrong for a man to look and protect his own family over any other random people?
Do you think capital-punishment is wrong for serial killers – as all life is sacred?
Judeo-Christian teachings didn’t stop infanticide in Europe and eastern religions didn’t stop infanticide in Asia. Of course the Romans and Greeks had their Gods – so how come this ‘TMO’ didn’t stop them committing infanticide?lol
Unless you were a slave at that time of course.lol And do you REALLY believe ever American alive today got the same chance to advance themselves?
Except unfortunately you don’t get the difference between philosophy and science. Although I was entertained by your ignorance about sub-atomic particles and antimatter. 😆
Gaffa, you just don’t get it, do you? By answering the question that you feel your life is worth more than another person’s you are negating their life. When a society regards that all life is precious, then nasty practices like infanticide are brought to an end. Maybe not immediately, but they are stopped.
Because a society believes that all life is precious, it does not mean that infanticide, slavery, eugenics, etc… are brought to a grinding halt; but without that philosophy, they never are.
I understand your ignorance of the subject because of your flawed political views, but I find it very hard to see why you are failing to even grasp the concept that all life is precious and that we are all created equal. God never promised equal outcomes, but we all have the same chance to better ourselves in our Democratic Republic which was based on that concept. Our Creator grants us the fact that all men are created equal and that we get certain rights from our Creator; among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Our Creator does not insure that we all have equal outcomes. No one except a far left loon would want that.
You said:
Subatomic particles have been proven in theory and by bouncing light waves off of atoms. However, that being said, since 1897 when Thomson first theorized them, scientists have yet to actually view them. Incidentally, he first called them corpuscles, but as we all know, that name was later dropped in favor of the term electron.
(A funny thought occurred to me. You accept at face value the existence of subatomic particles based on theory and the fact that we can see their path by utilizing light waves. Yet you demand concrete proof of the existence of God. lol)
As for antimatter, you realize that only in the lab have scientists been able to replicate it; and then only on a very, very minute scale. They have yet to find any in nature, or outside the lab, if you will.
You said:
That is your far left brain kicking in, searching for that utopia that will never exist. You cannot legislate equality, it just does not work that way. This is why far left programs never work. This is also why we have things like abortion, welfare, socialized medicine; because the far left always strive for that utopia.
And to answer your question – Yes, I believe every American alive today has the same chance to advance themselves. That is why our country works. That is why millions of people every year come to America, because under the regimes they have left back home, they would never be able to become successful.
That is the American dream. Too bad you cannot grasp that.
@Anticrocks
Stop trying to dissemble and just answer the questions or you incapable of answering them? 😆
I’ll ask again…
1. If Christianity believe all life is sacred then why is there so much genocide and murder in the Bible as I have outlined above?
2. Why weren’t the Egyptian first born lives treated as sacred?
3. If Jesus believed all life is sacred then why did he want to slay his enemies
4. If a ship was sinking do you think people should draw straws randomly rather than having women and children first?
5. Do you think your country should treat all those on earth equally rather than have preferential treatment to its own citizens?
6. Do you think dropping a bomb on Hiroshima was wrong because many thousands of innocent Japanese died?
7. Do you think it is wrong for a man to look and protect his own family over any other random people?
8. Do you think capital-punishment is wrong for serial killers – as all life is sacred?
9. Of course the Romans and Greeks had their Gods – so how come this ‘TMO’ didn’t stop them committing infanticide?
Here are passages from the Bible which advocates infanticide…
1 Samuel 15:3
Psalms 135:5-8
Psalms 137:8-9
And there are plenty more examples were innocent children are murdered by God or in the name of God in the Bible.
Except I’m not talking about equal outcomes I’m talking about that people clearly don’t have an equal chance in life – even from the very beginning. Do you really believe the children of a millioniare in the US has the same chance as an poor orphan baby with AIDs in Africa or even in their own country?
You don’t need to see something for it to be scientifically proven. Sub atomic particles is scientific fact whilst God remains scientifically unproven.
Absolutely – it something is created artifically that doesn’t mean it is only theory or that it doesn’t exist. Antimatter exists – it is science fact.
I’m merely stating that no one has an equal chance in life. You agree that is a utopia that will never exist and then go on to say you believe that every American has the same chance to improve themselves! 😆 I would say America is a great country because you have a better chance than most, and quite possibly all, countries in the world but certainly not all people have the same chance. That is impossible and to pretend as such is a lie.
@Gaffa: You said:
I am not going to let you frame the debate. If your reading comprehension was on par with your pomposity you would have realized that I had already answered your questions.
Here is my answer to your numerous questions:
Have a nice day.
Anticrocks
I’m not trying to frame the debate – it’s two way. I answer your questions but you can’t directly answer mine.
Hmmm let’s look at the earlier quote from you when you first asked your question…
#124
And since I get this….
#137
#141
Seems the only intellectual dishonesty and bs is coming from you. 😆
That doesn’t answer those questions at all. Try answering the 9 questions directly. I think you know you’ve painted yourself into a corner and are incapable of answering them without contradicting yourself or outright lying. 🙄
@Antirocks…. trying to proffer a logical argument in debate with a progressive/libtard/socialist is the equivalent of beating your head on a rock… no matter how you frame the argument they cannot see beyond their very narrow construct of life and society. They cannot seem to grasp the difference between what man vs God is capable of achieving. The humanist comes to the table thinking they are on an equal footing or superior to a Divine Being and therein lies their inability to grasp the difference between mortal man and eternal God.
In addition Gaffa cannot seem to differentiate between the Old Testament and the New Testament or understand that Christianity’s history lies within the Old Testament but that the New Testament represents its doctrine.
Each of Gaffa’s questions is based on the premise that to leave the corporeal world is a bad thing. Of course it’s bad if you don’t believe in God or an afterlife… this is it… all you get and that is where Gaffa’s perspective lies. Those of us that KNOW… and I can speak from experience having had a NDE, understand that from our birth to our death we are but travelers on a journey between two infinite worlds. Not until our deaths do we emerge from the cocoon that marks our mortal existence and blossom into our true spiritual selves.
Does it matter if we choose straws to decide if women and children go first… not really…. for those of us that believe in an afterlife, moving to the next level is not a punishment. It doesn’t in the least diminish God’s love for each and every soul.
@Donald
The narrow construct is yours alone. You are only frustrated because I don’t share your view on God. I can fully understand and accept that you believe in a God and I enjoy the debate – on the occasions where it is actually an adult debate rather than shallow name-calling. As an agnostic – I don’t know what happens after we die and I’m not 100% certain there is no God – because science has yet to (and may never will) answer all the questions in life. However I am a borderline atheist because I find the arguments for there being a God so weak. Calling me a socialist would be like me calling you a muslim. Liberal is fine – but you can be a conservative and be an atheist or a God fearing Liberal.
If I believe that in all probability there is no God then that statement is irrelevant. I can imagine the Flying Spaghetti Monster is probably capable of lots of amazing feats which far surpass what mankind can do. So can you grasp the difference between what man vs Flying Spaghetti Monster is capable of achieving? lol
Well you get Christian humanists – do they believe they are on an equal footing or superior to a Divine Being? Secular humanists/athiests don’t believe in God – so they don’t think they are on an equal footing or superior to a Divine Being because they don’t believe there is a divine being!
As I have shown Christians aren’t able to agree on how to treat teachings in the Old Testament – including the 10 commandments. However Christians do still use and preach from the Old Testament and plenty of them treat the Old Testament as actual history (e.g. universe was created in 6 days). And after all – aren’t we talking about the same God? What happened – did this vengeful, spiteful God of the OT suddenly changed his attitude when he sent his ‘son’. I guess that was too late for the first born egyptians who were murdered! (Of course not that this can be verified in history as bizarrely this isn’t mentioned by the Egyptians) And as Anticrocks discusses – we are talking Judeo-Christian values here – so the OT is very relevant.
This is based on anticrocks saying that according to Judeo-Christian teaching all life is sacred.
As I say I don’t know what happens next and I believe any living person who claims they do is a charlatan.
Plenty of people have a NDE, see a white light or whatever images they get from the brain and presume it’s God. There are also people who claim to have seen aliens, ghosts & fairies.
By the amount of genocide in the Bible – yes it seems God doesn’t care much for our lives on this earth.
If you believe all life is precious, that your life is worth the same as any other human and that there is an afterlife – then why are you so reluctant or unable to answer 9 perfectly simple questions?
@Gaffa: Looks like I hurt your feelings.
You think I have painted myself into a corner? THAT is laughable. Your questions deal with specific instances and my answer, while painting broadly, addresses those questions.
Too bad you cannot grasp that.
@Donald Bly, you are right. I ought to have let this end many posts ago. But the temptation to picture Gaffa with actual buttons that are SO easy to push eggs me on to engage him more than I should.
In all actuality, I pity him. I will pray for his soul tonight and hope that he can find God.
@Anticrocks
Yeah right – let’s see shall we…
1. If Christianity believe all life is sacred then why is there so much genocide and murder in the Bible as I have outlined above?
Anticrocks says
Doesn’t answer the question. The Bible doesn’t value that all life is precious. FAIL
2. Why weren’t the Egyptian first born lives treated as sacred?
Anticrocks says
Doesn’t answer the question. The Bible didn’t value the Egyptians first born lives as precious. FAIL
3. If Jesus believed all life is sacred then why did he want to slay his enemies
Anticrocks says
Doesn’t answer the question. Jesus contradicts himself about loving his enemies and clearly all life isn’t precious to him. FAIL
4. If a ship was sinking do you think people should draw straws randomly rather than having women and children first?
Anticrocks says
Doesn’t answer the question. If all life is precious what is to be done in the situation. Maybe Anticrock avocates every man for himself – pushing and shoving to get into a lifeboat? FAIL
5. Do you think your country should treat all those on earth equally rather than have preferential treatment to its own citizens?
Anticrocks says
Doesn’t answer the question. Maybe using the bland answer above Anticrocks must believe that every country has an equal obligation to look after all people on earth and doesn’t believe in border controls FAIL
6. Do you think dropping a bomb on Hiroshima was wrong because many thousands of innocent Japanese died?
Anticrocks says
Partially answer the question. Anticrocks must be a peacenik and be against such attacks. Thankfully there are leaders who believe freedom is more important than being squeamish. FAIL
7. Do you think it is wrong for a man to look and protect his own family over any other random people?
Anticrocks says
Doesn’t answer the question. All life is precious so maybe Anticrocks wouldn’t look after his family – instead he would try to protect the most people threatened in a situation rather than his own family FAIL
8. Do you think capital-punishment is wrong for serial killers – as all life is sacred?
Anticrocks says
Answers the question!Anticrocks must be against capital punishment – whether it’s for tyrants like Saddam or seriel killers etc PASS
9. Of course the Romans and Greeks had their Gods – so how come this ‘TMO’ didn’t stop them committing infanticide?
Anticrocks says
Doesn’t answer the question. Embarrassing Anticrocks theory falls apart here. FAIL
OVERALL SCORE – 1/9. EPIC FAIL. Result – Anticrocks must be against capital punishment but generally dodges all awkward questions.
lol – too bad the questions were too difficult for you to answer.
You can pretend you are pushing my buttons all you want – I’m amused you are incapable of debating and answering these questions. Obviously got you stumped.
lol – and you call me pompous. Still run away from the debate if you must. You believe in things which has no scientific evidence and yet you think things which are scientific fact such as sub-atomic particles is just theory! 😆 Clearly you are very confused.
Wow Gaffa you have ALL the answers. Tell us, why are you just posting on a conservative blog and not running for Prime Minister?
Um, the Romans and Greeks had gods, not a God and you are confusing the two.
Other than showing your proficiency at copy and paste, you have proven nothing. Shall I humor you? Once again let me say that your questions deal with specific instances and my answer, while painting broadly, addresses those questions.
So let me comment for you, in no particular order, on your silly questions.
I would of course protect my family first, don’t be a moron. I am an individual, not a society. Did you REALLY need me to explain that to you??
If you don’t understand that the Jewish people are God’s chosen ones, then I can’t help you.
When you cherry pick Bible verses without reading them, you fail to understand that Jesus did not tell anyone to murder his enemies. It was a parable and Jesus was quoting the King in the parable. This was to be an analogy on the way we live our lives. We can invest our faith in God as the first two servants invested the King’s money or we can squander and hide our faith like the third servant did with his money.
If by “a country” you mean the United States, then yes we should treat all persons the same – to a point. Anyone can walk into any hospital in the U.S. and receive medical treatment no matter what or who they are. However, a country has the right to protect it’s sovereignty, duh.
War is hell and sometimes innocent lives are lost. We ended the war in a horrific way, but it was the only way to do so facing a fanatical enemy. Millions of lives were saved.
The punishment should fit the crime. I am not against the death penalty.
Only a dullard would confuse chivalry with the ideal that all life is precious. Women and children first is a good example of chivalry and honor. Your posing a question about it shows that these must be foreign to you.
I am still praying for your soul, Gaffa; but I have given up on your intellectuality.
Anticrocks
I don’t have the all the answers and never claimed I have (again your binary thinking comes into play here)- I am posing questions to you. Why so defensive I wonder? lol
Of course but with the TMO as you mentioned was discussed by those like Aristotle who wasn’t Jewish or Christian. Or is somehow the TMO only applies to the Judeo-Christian religion or only to religions which worship one god? lol
There you go you would put more worth in your family’s lives than other humans. And presumably (correct me I am wrong) your family would put your life ahead of other random people. Therefore in answering your original question (which wasn’t is all human life precious)…
You would have to answer yes.
Therefore as an American your life is worth more to the US Government than most non-US citizens. Therefore in answering your original question…
You would have to answer yes.
Therefore as a citizen on one side of a war your life would be worth more than people on the other side. Therefore in answering your original question…
You would have to answer yes.
Therefore as an (presumably) innocent man your life is worth more than a condemned man. Therefore in answering your original question…
You would have to answer yes.
And as a double whammy…in answering your subsequent question (are all human lives are precious which you got confused with your original question)
You would have to answer…no.
Therefore your life as a man would be considered worth less than a woman or a child. As for confusing chivarly with all life is precious – it was you who confused your questions remember? Therefore in answering your original question…
You would have to answer yes.
And we can kill those who are against us being in that position in the first place. Yeah nice analogy Jesus! So were those lives who were against the King – worth more or less than the King? They were worth less. And were their lives viewed as precious? No.
Unanswered questions….
1. If Christianity believe all life is sacred then why is there so much genocide and murder in the Bible as I have outlined above?
2. Why weren’t the Egyptian first born lives treated as sacred?
Hmm interesting that you avoid these…how does that fit in with all life is precious?
Seeing as I have used your own replies to blown apart your original question – your intellectuality is very poor indeed.But thanks for your help. 😛
As for praying – how’s that going – any results yet? Maybe it would better spent praying for all the victims of religion including Christianity. And as the Pope is visiting the UK – maybe pray for all the victims of sexual abuse at the hands of Catholic priests – particularly those covered up by the church and by the Pope himself. Hmmm maybe they failed to fall in step with the TMO. 😆
@Gaffa: My, my, my aren’t you full of yourself? But don’t be too hasty in your glee thinking that you are all that and a bag of chips. You aren’t.
Let me start at the end of your insipid post #148.
You claim I did not answer two of your questions.
LOL. You really are a dullard. First of all, Donald Bly answered number 1 from above in his post #143:
Let me further elaborate: The Bible is a history book, so therefore it tells the events of its day. Before the Bible there was ample evidence of greed, avarice, idolatry, murder, lust, vengeance, etc…, and it was the Bible that delivered a new doctrine to mankind. I know that is hard for you to understand, so I deliberately typed this paragraph slowly.
As for number 2, I did answer that. But you prove once again that your liberal viewpoint forces you to go through life with blinders on. Let me point out my answer:
And I shan’t elaborate on this point. It would take up too much time and in the end you would not understand it.
You did not understand that Luke 19 is a parable and a parable is a story. Jesus did not utter those words in his own name, he was explaining what the king in the story ordered. Now whether this was a real king or a fictitious one, who knows? So go ahead and draw any analogy you wish.
You do not understand that chivalry means you are giving someone (in the case of the sinking ship) the gift of your place on the lifeboat. It does not mean you think you are worth less, if anything one might feel that they are answering a higher calling by letting the weaker and younger go in their place. As I said, your interpretation and actual question itself shows that you have no concept of chivalry or honor.
In the war and capital punishment examples, it shows no such thing when you allude that my answers mean that some lives are worth more. In capital punishment, the society is saying that when you commit a crime so heinous as to become a permanent threat to that society, then you must pay the ultimate price to protect all the other lives in the society; and to be a deterrent to others that might commit similar crimes. Honestly, this concept is not that hard.
In war, you are saying the same thing, only on a larger scale. Need I remind you that Japan attacked us? Had they not attacked us, we would not have dropped Fat Man and Little Boy on them. Therefore ending the war with the two atomic weapons saved lives on both sides because the fanaticism that was running feudal Japan would not accept defeat or surrender in normal circumstances. Even after the first bomb, they did not want to surrender.
As far as my life being worth more than a citizen from another country, well you will just have to accept the fact that when a band of people get together and form a society that is so large, it is called a country, then those people expect that country to protect them. Again, sorry if this is hard for you.
Now does my family think I am worth more than someone else? Gee, I kinda hope so; but you see, you fail to get the point that TO THEM, I am worth more. Doesn’t mean I am worth more or less in the grand scheme of things. Again, you took a specific example and tried to apply the overall societal philosophy that all life is precious. Nice try, but very weak and transparent.
It is you who will not debate things on face value.
As for the Romans and the Greeks, well they did not have the Judea-Christian value system, but they had philosophers that were (pardon the pun) thinking outside the box. That is why they ventured into and toyed with the idea of a TMO. They did not call it that, but they were playing with the idea that a society needed firm rules to function without chaos.
Now, tell me again – what did you prove?
Nada, other than your own false feelings of self importance and an astounding demonstration of ignorance of the Transcendent Moral Order.
@Antirocks…. Can you imagine if Obama were right… that our salvation is predicated on a “collective salvation”, we’d all be screwed and believers would have to “purify” the ranks of non-believers. This seems to be more of a Muslim concept than a Christian one. No wonder they are out trying to kill everyone.
Concerning Gaffa… as long as you’re getting a kick out of pushing his buttons… carry on… but be thankful that we can “shake the dust from our sandals” without thinking that we are remiss in our duties.
I personally have no interest in bringing to anyone that isn’t truly seeking, the light. I don’t profess a denomination as I feel most religion is “of men” and too much importance has been placed on the doctrine of Paul to the point of elevating it above Christ’s doctrine.
“Love God above all else and treat your fellow man as you would want to be treated”… really how simple is that! Everything beyond that is man imposed and unnecessary. Christ managed to summarize the 10 commandments into a superbly easy to understand doctrine.
Now… the thought for the day! If the Universe is expanding…. what is it expanding in to?