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Good morning Question for all.Assuming the loyal opposition’s assertion that 60-65% of the American public is against the bill as it is currently written is correct,what % of those against believe bill has not gone far enough i.e. no public option?
Switching subjects Fight in Marjah looks to be going well.I live one mile from north gate of Camp Pendleton and visit often.I can assure all your Marines are still the world’s greatest fighting force and they are fired up and ready to go.
thank’s RICH good news tell them isay go get them i will pray for your safe return,bye
Missy
14 years ago
Recent polling-2/25/10
47% Oppose Public Option Health Plan; 58% Oppose If Workers Forced To Change Coverage
A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 42% favor the establishment of a government-sponsored non-profit health insurance option that people could choose instead of a private health insurance plan. But slightly more voters (47%) oppose the creation of a so-called “public option.” Eleven percent (11%) are undecided.
Cary…. I have to add some caveats and disclosures to add to your links answering @rich wheeler’s request ( as to how many opposed O’healthcare because it doesn’t go far enough. )
First I have to say that most of those who believe it doesn’t go far enough still give it support because they know achieving national single payer universal care is incremental. So they are content to start, and believe in fearless leader’s own words stating that single payer is the desired result, and could take up to a decade to achieve.
So opposition to the bill by the hard core (or would that be corpse??) socialists is pretty much miniscule. And if you use the Ipsos poll in your second link, that would be about 12%.
Considering that the “RawStory” blogs story you linked doesn’t provide a useable link to the original poll, we have no way of knowing how the question was phrased to elicit the desired answer. However using RawStory’s quotes, only 43% think O’health care doesn’t go far enough…. and says nothing about whether they oppose it for that reason.
However, last I looked, 43% was still a minority.
My guess is rich wheeler is actually more curious as to how many are supporters of single payer… aka disguised with a new name of “public option”. So the caveats/disclosures commence. And I will quote how the polls play games with words to misguide public opinion that the nation is ready for universal single payer health care.
There’s three realities…
1: A small majority favor having a public option, in tandem with private insurance.
2: Most do not realize that O’healthcare is designed to destroy private insurance as an alternative (perhaps leaving it as a specialty umbrella option only). Therefore O’healthcare is the first step to universal single payer.
3: A vast majority do *not* favor universal government single payer.
Keeping those in mind, you’ll notice that – depending on how the questions are asked – the poll results are misleading, and used to push agendas.
First, defining “single payer” and why it’s the same as a “public option”
…the definition of single payer:
Single-payer health care: A system of health care characterized by universal and comprehensive coverage. Single-payer health care is similar to the health services provided by Medicare in the US. The government pays for care that is delivered in the private (mostly not-for-profit) sector. Doctors are in private practice and are paid on a fee-for-service basis from government funds. The government does not own or manage their medical practices or hospitals.
Single-payer health care is distinct and different from socialized medicine in which doctors and hospitals work for and draw salaries from the government.
Single-payer is a term used to describe a type of financing system. It refers to one entity acting as administrator, or “payer”. In the case of health care, a single-payer system would be setup such that one entity – a government run organization – would collect all health care fees, and pay out all health care costs.
Next, polls that indicate when opinions when it’s a choice of govt only insurance, vs having a private option along side “single payer”.
“Now I’m going to read you some different ways to increase the number of Americans covered by health insurance. As I read each one, please tell me whether you would favor it or oppose it. Here’s the (first/next) one: [See below.] Do you favor or oppose this?”
% that 1: Favor 2: Oppose 3: Unsure
“Creating a government-administered public health insurance option similar to Medicare to compete with private health insurance plans” N=649 (Form A)
9/11-18/09
57 favor, 37 oppose, 6 unsure
“Offering tax credits to help people buy private health insurance” N=649 (Form A)
9/11-18/09
67 favor, 26 oppose, 7 unsure
~~~
“Having a national health plan “or single-payer plan” in which all Americans would get their insurance from a single government plan” N=554 (Form B)
9/11-18/09
40 favor, 56 OPPOSE, 5 unsure
Get the difference? An overwhelming majority oppose a single national health care plan for the nation.
Now it’s to get the blind to recognize that O’healthcare is specifically designed to be a private insurer killer over a decade, by their own admission.
So people may vote for what they believe is a private/govt combo today, never realizing that what they are voting for is the demise of private insurance as a side by side stand alone in the near future.
MH Well written post as usual. What I’ve been shown to paraphrase old fireballer Sen Jim Bunning Kentucky Conser. polls don’t mean shit.Like most everything else the country is pretty evenly divided over need for major health care reform in an expeditious manner.To say otherwise just isn’t truthful BHO BELIEVES HE WAS ELECTED TO GET THIS DONE.
BHO believes he was elected to do a lot of things, rich wheeler. And unquestionably one of them is to “remake America”. “Remaking” our health system into single payer is a passion for him. One where it’s obvious he is willing to be a one term President, and destroy the power grip held by the Democratic Party over…. should they opt to press the red nuclear option button for it’s passage.
Personally I think it’d be easier for him to just move to another country that suits his visions instead of trying to remake this one. Can you say buh bye, Barry?
All I can say is the GOP has tried to present better alternatives to actually contain runaway costs that drive medical providers price for care up. Yesterday’s summit showed a stubborn and arrogant POTUS and ruling party, and a calmer GOP with more fiscally sound and cogent ideas. Their presentation… much to the surprise and chagrin of the POTUS… was not unnoticed even by a suspicious media. For them to call the day a debate “tie” was actually a runaway victory for the GOP.
They proceed with reconciliation at their own risk. And when they lose power – because no one wants this shoved down our throats – it will be up to the GOP to undo their damage… assuming any of it survives both the “budget reconciliation” criteria sniff test, and a Constitutional power test in the SCOTUS.
Ideas have been presented. Now it’s time to bring it on instead of continuing with the threats and slander of the opposition.
Mr. Irons
14 years ago
And do not ignore the fact MataHarley that roughly 66 percent of the States are preparing laws that ban National Healthcare Reform from being enacted within their State borders. Even if this is passed by reconciliation, the Democrats would have a very tough legal battle when the majority States set in place their bans and deny the Healthcare plan its tax revenues and laws to take root. The battle could end up in the Surpreme Court, of which the States would refuse to acknowledge and still emplace the ban to the chagrin of the Democrats who forced this bill. This is exactly the same type of atmosphere that spawned the first civil war, just the sides have changed. One fights to ban enslavement policies, one fights to mandate it on a national scale.
Never, Mr. Irons. In fact I did a post on the preliminary preparation of sundry lawsuits… ranging from 10th Amendment issues via states to Constitutional authority of the fed’s right to mandate health care… back on Dec 26th.
If my intuition is corrrect, they will be advancing these into the system forthwith, on the heels of the attempt at reconciliation.
But truth be told, I’m not sure they’ve got the votes for reconciliation either. Hearing conflicting support. But that reminds me… must publish the list of swing voters and their phone numbers in preparation for the inevitable.
m.h. To my knowledge there is no mention of single payer option in House or Senate bills.Obama may want it but knows he can’t get it.Like him or not he’s a pragmatist.Reports of his impending demise are greatly exagerated. He beat the CLINTONS who eat Repubs.for lunch.
If he can hold Dems together he’ll be in it to win in 2012. You guys hated Clinton too but couldn’t beat him.
bill-tb
14 years ago
Reconciliation, short trip to doom …
If the ram it with health care, will they then ram it with Cap and Trade, then ram it with Amnesty, then ram it with card check, then ram it forever ….
Ever wonder why countries like Venezuela are unstable? Because if they ram it, then we ram it, then they ram it, then we ram it. See the unstable part? Majoritarian democracies are inherently unstable.
I think Americans need to decide if they want to destroy our Senate and become Venezuela…
Maybe a better solution would be to repeal the 17th Amendment, and get rid of the ‘Schumer seats’ for life and give back the states rights … then shrink the federal government back to it’s Constitutional size.
People’s House and the States House, how it used to be before progressives started trying to take over our country …
Mr. Irons
14 years ago
Please publish those swing votes, it could really be an issue for them to hear the wrath of more than just their congressional districts.
And I like to point to Wheeler that Clinton had to deal with a Republican dominated Congress during the second half of his first term of office and for the full set of his second term. Many people give the credit to Clinton, which is ignorance on fullscale display, for a budget surplus as budget and spending issues fall squarely on Congress even after anything is signed by the President.
And yes, the public option is in the Senate Healthcare bill that passed the Senate and is the bill Pelosi is demanding to be passed via Reconiliation, it may not be the public option that Pelosi wanted but it is a public option system. This is not a budget bill, this is a series of tax laws and consumer laws and as such doing this action could be challenged in the United States Surpreme Court and if found unconsititional could see it killed outright and deny the Democrats the very thing they savor for.
For Congress, many Democrat Congressmen do not like the Senate Bill and for the Senate just enough Democrat Senators do not like the Congress bill to cause just enough swing votes to deny any form of majority passage of Reconiliation.
@rich wheeler: m.h. To my knowledge there is no mention of single payer option in House or Senate bills.
How embarrasing for you, rich wheeler…. You prequalified it with “to my knowledge…” and that was sufficient to entrap you within your own net. Either by a stubbornness to perpetuate a lie, or by your own demonstrated stupidity.
Neither are personally flattering, guy…
As I pointed out @in my comment above, the definitions to “single payer” are there, and the “public option” is a single payer system.
MH I understand single payer and public option are the same. The point I was making is neither bill has the public option that Obama and Pelosi and many liberal Dems would want in their perfect bill. Lipstick on a pig.I prefer W with a rack’.
Was your Navy ex ever on the ground in I Corps 11/67-11/68?
Glad you get the “different name for same critter” bit, rich.
Navy ex went into nuke subs in ’69, so didn’t take on blue/gold crews for “at sea” service until after education in early 70s. The joys and options of the lottery in those years, and their convenient delays that outlasted the worst years.
In the meantime, had friends in Red “angels in red hats” Berets Airborne from early to mid 60s on. They were my educational “entry” into those years. Only knew two high school chums, plus my bro, who returned alive…. let alone intact. Rather a common thing in our times. The wiping out of American youth, as it were.
Justified or not, or the wisdom in combat strategy, is wholly another argument that I am not willing to wage…. even at this stage in my life. I was not a “protester” then because it would be a direct insult/assault on too many I knew. I will not become one now.
And Hanoi Jane will still remain a great dart board icon.
In light of your other, more personal question, I forgot to address this, rich:
MH I understand single payer and public option are the same. The point I was making is neither bill has the public option that Obama and Pelosi and many liberal Dems would want in their perfect bill.
My first burning question is, how the hell do you know? We have not seen the text of the bill constructed in the back rooms….
M.H. You shouda been a lawyer. What I should have said is Universal public option is not mentioned and is not sought in current bills.This is an Obama concession to more moderate Dems.
MH I posted 128 before reading your 126 response Thanks for that.101st Airborne incredible tradition of valor. Saw 1st AirCav upclose in V.N. Can’t begin to tell you how impressively they performed when I saw them in action around Khe Sanh in 68.
Senator Coburn brought up a good point that many individuals use the emergency room services even if they do have health insurance because of the copays required going to a primary care physician.
We can guarantee repayment of home loans to banks… why can’t we provide a $5,000 credit line for individuals for use in paying health care costs, with government guarantees. One can purchase health care insurance for $150 a month with a $5,000 deductible. The credit line can be used to cover those deductibles (not the premium). Avg trips to the doctor per year is just 2.4 times. Health insurance should be for those catastrophic events that would be beyond the capability of the average person to pay for under normal circumstances. Credit line repayment could be a modest 17 dollars per thousand of outstanding debt and interest could be at 1% of any unpaid balance. This would place payment of one’s medical care back in the hands of the indiviudal.
An additional issue concerning health care that seems not to be addressed by anyone is the disparity in pricing. A group gets a price often half of what a single indiviudal paying cash must pay. If you are getting your appendix out… the price should be x amount for everyone. Not x for Fred with Group Health and 2x for Ed paying cash out of pocket for services.
Too much of the so called reforms are simply more of the same old crap… Congresspersons… we pay you well… start thinking and don’t limit yourself to wornout ideas within the walls of the box.
BRob
14 years ago
Mata —
Obama’s does not have a 1,000 page “bill”. I know you folks don’t like those anyway. Instead, it is a framework. If you haven’t read it, that is not because it was not released.
I doubt Coburn has any proof of that. For one, insurance policies apply the copay to emergency room visits just as they do doctors visits. Indeed I have seen plans where the copay is higher for emergency care visits than for wellcare visits in order to discourage people from going to the emergency room for non-emergency care. So it sound like a sound bite with no real facts supporting it.
Your approach is not a bad approach. If I had my way, every American would have a catastrophic health care insurance policy, along with a wellcare package with government payments kicking in at the $15,000 level or so. Yes, it would keep people from total bankruptcy without having the taypayer be in the hook for every pill, every scratch, etc. And if your employer and/or a union wanted better coverage, they would have it. But they probably wouldn’t so that the money could go into plant and facilities and wages and inventory instead of health insurance.
Indeed, I have often wondered: when a recession hits, how many employer would drop insurance and keep on extra employees if they knew their employed, working class and administrative employees could have decent coverage from the government? How would the unemployment rates be impacted if employers did not have to provide that $5,000 to $12,000 per employee? Dropping four employees’ family coverage would free up $48,000 per year. That’s another employee. But because of our lack of a federal safety net, employers are forced to bear that burden. Their competitors across the lake in Canada, or across the ocean in Japan or Germany? No such concern.
BRob
14 years ago
And by the way, Mata —
The way this may happen is that the Senate bill (which passed 60-39 or something like that in December and has no public option) will be voted on by the House. It is in most respects less “radical” than the House bill. If it is passed, both the House and the Senate will then take up a reconciliation package of tweaks to the Senate bill. I have heard no one mentioning that reconciliation will include any public option.
You can read the Senate bill for yourself. It was passed more than two months ago, so there is really no excuse for you not having read it yet. Especially since you cons are all in a tizzy about reading a couple thousand pages of legislat-ese.
@billy bob, lay off the hallucinogens… I never stated anywhere that Obama had a “1,000 page bill”.
And yes, I read Obama’s proposal the day after it was posted on the WH dot gov site. The devil is always in the legislative details… as exhibited by the horse manure concocted by Pelosi’s House and Reid’s Senate.
Donald Bly
14 years ago
There’s a liar in our midst whom I will not address by name, however, I would prefer he not address me, or my ideas, and I certainly would hope that regardless of how much he might agree with my out of the box thinking… keep his endorsements to himself as they only detract from the seriousness of my proposals.
I do not associate nor converse with liars.
BRob
14 years ago
Don —
You are an intellectual wuss. If you don’t like me commenting on your ideas (even the good ones) I suggest you not post.
hey BROB you do not suggest here this blog does not belong to you ,if someone want to send you of they sure will keep DONALD and delete you instead you insult every one and pretend that you want to instruct all that is not acceptable just pause before you you put your fingers on the keyboard and think .
BRob
14 years ago
Bees —
I think it appropriate to quote W.E.B. DuBois here: “Imagine a mistletoe pinned to my coat tail and honor it.”
hey BROB you don’t suggest here,this is not for you to tell not to post ask MIKE , i prefer to keep DONALD over you he has more intelligence than you
Old Trooper 2
14 years ago
Donald Bly, 0133Hrs. outside Kandahar. Pay no attention to the Fool in the corner slinging crap.
He must be viewed as a failed “social experiment” that both Mata and Aye have exposed as a phony several times and a racist besides.
My Night Crew in Ops are in stitches laughing at his pathetic attempt to shore up the holes in his logic by throwing personal insults around like a jr high school intellectually handicapped punk. When asked to “put up or shut up” he does not know the difference or care that he continues to make a complete a$$ of himself to Our Amusement and annoyance hoping that it will stick. It doesn’t! He’s just like a stray dog trying to mark his turf here by lifting his leg on a tall pine tree in the woods. The tree does not care and neither should you.
Despite the fact that his a$$ has been repeatedly been smoked like a cheap cigar He continues to lift his leg here. The term “Stuck on Stupid” applies here.
Now for a little late night fun here.
An old Fav of mine from a 1985 deployment to the Philippines with the old 1St Group when America had a President that mattered and America had a little respect around the world.
Now if you will excuse me I have Mr. Obama’s War going on here. We may win it despite him.
OT2 nice of you to come tell them to tip toe so nt to disturb their garden and call on the MV SWEEPER and tell the operator to appologyse because he disturb the seeds that after all belongs to them ,you know my laptop is jealus and crash on me if i talk to someone i like or watch a video he want to control me but i never like bulley anywhere bye and come back to me
Skookum
14 years ago
How ironic to quote America’s quintessential Black Communist.
Donald Bly
14 years ago
BRob the Liar’s shift must be over. I wonder if Soros pays him double time for Sunday work?
I did notice that the odor around here has improved…. and it wasn’t because someone changed socks.
My favorite wartime deployment song was “Bungle in the Jungle” by Jethro Tull but I’m too lazy to try and find a youtube feed.
Good morning Question for all.Assuming the loyal opposition’s assertion that 60-65% of the American public is against the bill as it is currently written is correct,what % of those against believe bill has not gone far enough i.e. no public option?
Switching subjects Fight in Marjah looks to be going well.I live one mile from north gate of Camp Pendleton and visit often.I can assure all your Marines are still the world’s greatest fighting force and they are fired up and ready to go.
O.T. please check in
@rich wheeler:
http://rawstory.com/2010/01/public-health-care-bill-far-enough-poll/
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/12/in-polls-much-opposition-to-health-care.html
thank’s RICH good news tell them isay go get them i will pray for your safe return,bye
Recent polling-2/25/10
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/february_2010/47_oppose_public_option_health_plan_58_oppose_if_workers_forced_to_change_coverage
Cary…. I have to add some caveats and disclosures to add to your links answering @rich wheeler’s request ( as to how many opposed O’healthcare because it doesn’t go far enough. )
First I have to say that most of those who believe it doesn’t go far enough still give it support because they know achieving national single payer universal care is incremental. So they are content to start, and believe in fearless leader’s own words stating that single payer is the desired result, and could take up to a decade to achieve.
So opposition to the bill by the hard core (or would that be corpse??) socialists is pretty much miniscule. And if you use the Ipsos poll in your second link, that would be about 12%.
Considering that the “RawStory” blogs story you linked doesn’t provide a useable link to the original poll, we have no way of knowing how the question was phrased to elicit the desired answer. However using RawStory’s quotes, only 43% think O’health care doesn’t go far enough…. and says nothing about whether they oppose it for that reason.
However, last I looked, 43% was still a minority.
My guess is rich wheeler is actually more curious as to how many are supporters of single payer… aka disguised with a new name of “public option”. So the caveats/disclosures commence. And I will quote how the polls play games with words to misguide public opinion that the nation is ready for universal single payer health care.
There’s three realities…
1: A small majority favor having a public option, in tandem with private insurance.
2: Most do not realize that O’healthcare is designed to destroy private insurance as an alternative (perhaps leaving it as a specialty umbrella option only). Therefore O’healthcare is the first step to universal single payer.
3: A vast majority do *not* favor universal government single payer.
Keeping those in mind, you’ll notice that – depending on how the questions are asked – the poll results are misleading, and used to push agendas.
From a prior comment of mine with Larry W, and again here… playing the poll question game to find opinions on single-payer with private option combo vs single payer only:
First, defining “single payer” and why it’s the same as a “public option”
Next, polls that indicate when opinions when it’s a choice of govt only insurance, vs having a private option along side “single payer”.
Get the difference? An overwhelming majority oppose a single national health care plan for the nation.
Now it’s to get the blind to recognize that O’healthcare is specifically designed to be a private insurer killer over a decade, by their own admission.
So people may vote for what they believe is a private/govt combo today, never realizing that what they are voting for is the demise of private insurance as a side by side stand alone in the near future.
And that’s called lying and misrepresentation.
MH Well written post as usual. What I’ve been shown to paraphrase old fireballer Sen Jim Bunning Kentucky Conser. polls don’t mean shit.Like most everything else the country is pretty evenly divided over need for major health care reform in an expeditious manner.To say otherwise just isn’t truthful BHO BELIEVES HE WAS ELECTED TO GET THIS DONE.
BHO believes he was elected to do a lot of things, rich wheeler. And unquestionably one of them is to “remake America”. “Remaking” our health system into single payer is a passion for him. One where it’s obvious he is willing to be a one term President, and destroy the power grip held by the Democratic Party over…. should they opt to press the red nuclear option button for it’s passage.
Personally I think it’d be easier for him to just move to another country that suits his visions instead of trying to remake this one. Can you say buh bye, Barry?
All I can say is the GOP has tried to present better alternatives to actually contain runaway costs that drive medical providers price for care up. Yesterday’s summit showed a stubborn and arrogant POTUS and ruling party, and a calmer GOP with more fiscally sound and cogent ideas. Their presentation… much to the surprise and chagrin of the POTUS… was not unnoticed even by a suspicious media. For them to call the day a debate “tie” was actually a runaway victory for the GOP.
They proceed with reconciliation at their own risk. And when they lose power – because no one wants this shoved down our throats – it will be up to the GOP to undo their damage… assuming any of it survives both the “budget reconciliation” criteria sniff test, and a Constitutional power test in the SCOTUS.
Ideas have been presented. Now it’s time to bring it on instead of continuing with the threats and slander of the opposition.
And do not ignore the fact MataHarley that roughly 66 percent of the States are preparing laws that ban National Healthcare Reform from being enacted within their State borders. Even if this is passed by reconciliation, the Democrats would have a very tough legal battle when the majority States set in place their bans and deny the Healthcare plan its tax revenues and laws to take root. The battle could end up in the Surpreme Court, of which the States would refuse to acknowledge and still emplace the ban to the chagrin of the Democrats who forced this bill. This is exactly the same type of atmosphere that spawned the first civil war, just the sides have changed. One fights to ban enslavement policies, one fights to mandate it on a national scale.
Never, Mr. Irons. In fact I did a post on the preliminary preparation of sundry lawsuits… ranging from 10th Amendment issues via states to Constitutional authority of the fed’s right to mandate health care… back on Dec 26th.
If my intuition is corrrect, they will be advancing these into the system forthwith, on the heels of the attempt at reconciliation.
But truth be told, I’m not sure they’ve got the votes for reconciliation either. Hearing conflicting support. But that reminds me… must publish the list of swing voters and their phone numbers in preparation for the inevitable.
MR IRONS i see that you move to this post i ask you a question on th HOW NOT TO TORTURE post you want to check bye
I have multiple tabs open, ilovebees, and hence why I jump from thread to thread.
m.h. To my knowledge there is no mention of single payer option in House or Senate bills.Obama may want it but knows he can’t get it.Like him or not he’s a pragmatist.Reports of his impending demise are greatly exagerated. He beat the CLINTONS who eat Repubs.for lunch.
If he can hold Dems together he’ll be in it to win in 2012. You guys hated Clinton too but couldn’t beat him.
Reconciliation, short trip to doom …
If the ram it with health care, will they then ram it with Cap and Trade, then ram it with Amnesty, then ram it with card check, then ram it forever ….
Ever wonder why countries like Venezuela are unstable? Because if they ram it, then we ram it, then they ram it, then we ram it. See the unstable part? Majoritarian democracies are inherently unstable.
I think Americans need to decide if they want to destroy our Senate and become Venezuela…
Maybe a better solution would be to repeal the 17th Amendment, and get rid of the ‘Schumer seats’ for life and give back the states rights … then shrink the federal government back to it’s Constitutional size.
People’s House and the States House, how it used to be before progressives started trying to take over our country …
Please publish those swing votes, it could really be an issue for them to hear the wrath of more than just their congressional districts.
And I like to point to Wheeler that Clinton had to deal with a Republican dominated Congress during the second half of his first term of office and for the full set of his second term. Many people give the credit to Clinton, which is ignorance on fullscale display, for a budget surplus as budget and spending issues fall squarely on Congress even after anything is signed by the President.
And yes, the public option is in the Senate Healthcare bill that passed the Senate and is the bill Pelosi is demanding to be passed via Reconiliation, it may not be the public option that Pelosi wanted but it is a public option system. This is not a budget bill, this is a series of tax laws and consumer laws and as such doing this action could be challenged in the United States Surpreme Court and if found unconsititional could see it killed outright and deny the Democrats the very thing they savor for.
For Congress, many Democrat Congressmen do not like the Senate Bill and for the Senate just enough Democrat Senators do not like the Congress bill to cause just enough swing votes to deny any form of majority passage of Reconiliation.
@Mr. Irons: Done, Mr. Irons. my just added post…
How embarrasing for you, rich wheeler…. You prequalified it with “to my knowledge…” and that was sufficient to entrap you within your own net. Either by a stubbornness to perpetuate a lie, or by your own demonstrated stupidity.
Neither are personally flattering, guy…
As I pointed out @in my comment above, the definitions to “single payer” are there, and the “public option” is a single payer system.
A rose by any other name.
Or, as your hero, Obama, says… “that’s not change. That’s just calling the same thing something different. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig…”.
Want the damning evidence?
Your idol plays the game.. and very badly, BTW.
So which do you prefer, rich wheeler? Being an ignorant dupe? Or a partisan in the “know”, but still passing on the same lying the misrepresentation?
MH I understand single payer and public option are the same. The point I was making is neither bill has the public option that Obama and Pelosi and many liberal Dems would want in their perfect bill. Lipstick on a pig.I prefer W with a rack’.
Was your Navy ex ever on the ground in I Corps 11/67-11/68?
Glad you get the “different name for same critter” bit, rich.
Navy ex went into nuke subs in ’69, so didn’t take on blue/gold crews for “at sea” service until after education in early 70s. The joys and options of the lottery in those years, and their convenient delays that outlasted the worst years.
In the meantime, had friends in Red “angels in red hats” Berets Airborne from early to mid 60s on. They were my educational “entry” into those years. Only knew two high school chums, plus my bro, who returned alive…. let alone intact. Rather a common thing in our times. The wiping out of American youth, as it were.
Justified or not, or the wisdom in combat strategy, is wholly another argument that I am not willing to wage…. even at this stage in my life. I was not a “protester” then because it would be a direct insult/assault on too many I knew. I will not become one now.
And Hanoi Jane will still remain a great dart board icon.
In light of your other, more personal question, I forgot to address this, rich:
My first burning question is, how the hell do you know? We have not seen the text of the bill constructed in the back rooms….
What we only know is that they want it badly.
M.H. You shouda been a lawyer. What I should have said is Universal public option is not mentioned and is not sought in current bills.This is an Obama concession to more moderate Dems.
MH I posted 128 before reading your 126 response Thanks for that.101st Airborne incredible tradition of valor. Saw 1st AirCav upclose in V.N. Can’t begin to tell you how impressively they performed when I saw them in action around Khe Sanh in 68.
The cost of doing nothing on health care…
http://www.mercurynews.com/politics-government/ci_14485114
Senator Coburn brought up a good point that many individuals use the emergency room services even if they do have health insurance because of the copays required going to a primary care physician.
We can guarantee repayment of home loans to banks… why can’t we provide a $5,000 credit line for individuals for use in paying health care costs, with government guarantees. One can purchase health care insurance for $150 a month with a $5,000 deductible. The credit line can be used to cover those deductibles (not the premium). Avg trips to the doctor per year is just 2.4 times. Health insurance should be for those catastrophic events that would be beyond the capability of the average person to pay for under normal circumstances. Credit line repayment could be a modest 17 dollars per thousand of outstanding debt and interest could be at 1% of any unpaid balance. This would place payment of one’s medical care back in the hands of the indiviudal.
An additional issue concerning health care that seems not to be addressed by anyone is the disparity in pricing. A group gets a price often half of what a single indiviudal paying cash must pay. If you are getting your appendix out… the price should be x amount for everyone. Not x for Fred with Group Health and 2x for Ed paying cash out of pocket for services.
Too much of the so called reforms are simply more of the same old crap… Congresspersons… we pay you well… start thinking and don’t limit yourself to wornout ideas within the walls of the box.
Mata —
Obama’s does not have a 1,000 page “bill”. I know you folks don’t like those anyway. Instead, it is a framework. If you haven’t read it, that is not because it was not released.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/proposal
Don —
I doubt Coburn has any proof of that. For one, insurance policies apply the copay to emergency room visits just as they do doctors visits. Indeed I have seen plans where the copay is higher for emergency care visits than for wellcare visits in order to discourage people from going to the emergency room for non-emergency care. So it sound like a sound bite with no real facts supporting it.
Your approach is not a bad approach. If I had my way, every American would have a catastrophic health care insurance policy, along with a wellcare package with government payments kicking in at the $15,000 level or so. Yes, it would keep people from total bankruptcy without having the taypayer be in the hook for every pill, every scratch, etc. And if your employer and/or a union wanted better coverage, they would have it. But they probably wouldn’t so that the money could go into plant and facilities and wages and inventory instead of health insurance.
Indeed, I have often wondered: when a recession hits, how many employer would drop insurance and keep on extra employees if they knew their employed, working class and administrative employees could have decent coverage from the government? How would the unemployment rates be impacted if employers did not have to provide that $5,000 to $12,000 per employee? Dropping four employees’ family coverage would free up $48,000 per year. That’s another employee. But because of our lack of a federal safety net, employers are forced to bear that burden. Their competitors across the lake in Canada, or across the ocean in Japan or Germany? No such concern.
And by the way, Mata —
The way this may happen is that the Senate bill (which passed 60-39 or something like that in December and has no public option) will be voted on by the House. It is in most respects less “radical” than the House bill. If it is passed, both the House and the Senate will then take up a reconciliation package of tweaks to the Senate bill. I have heard no one mentioning that reconciliation will include any public option.
You can read the Senate bill for yourself. It was passed more than two months ago, so there is really no excuse for you not having read it yet. Especially since you cons are all in a tizzy about reading a couple thousand pages of legislat-ese.
@billy bob, lay off the hallucinogens… I never stated anywhere that Obama had a “1,000 page bill”.
And yes, I read Obama’s proposal the day after it was posted on the WH dot gov site. The devil is always in the legislative details… as exhibited by the horse manure concocted by Pelosi’s House and Reid’s Senate.
There’s a liar in our midst whom I will not address by name, however, I would prefer he not address me, or my ideas, and I certainly would hope that regardless of how much he might agree with my out of the box thinking… keep his endorsements to himself as they only detract from the seriousness of my proposals.
I do not associate nor converse with liars.
Don —
You are an intellectual wuss. If you don’t like me commenting on your ideas (even the good ones) I suggest you not post.
hey BROB you do not suggest here this blog does not belong to you ,if someone want to send you of they sure will keep DONALD and delete you instead you insult every one and pretend that you want to instruct all that is not acceptable just pause before you you put your fingers on the keyboard and think .
Bees —
I think it appropriate to quote W.E.B. DuBois here: “Imagine a mistletoe pinned to my coat tail and honor it.”
hey BROB you don’t suggest here,this is not for you to tell not to post ask MIKE , i prefer to keep DONALD over you he has more intelligence than you
Donald Bly, 0133Hrs. outside Kandahar. Pay no attention to the Fool in the corner slinging crap.
He must be viewed as a failed “social experiment” that both Mata and Aye have exposed as a phony several times and a racist besides.
My Night Crew in Ops are in stitches laughing at his pathetic attempt to shore up the holes in his logic by throwing personal insults around like a jr high school intellectually handicapped punk. When asked to “put up or shut up” he does not know the difference or care that he continues to make a complete a$$ of himself to Our Amusement and annoyance hoping that it will stick. It doesn’t! He’s just like a stray dog trying to mark his turf here by lifting his leg on a tall pine tree in the woods. The tree does not care and neither should you.
Despite the fact that his a$$ has been repeatedly been smoked like a cheap cigar He continues to lift his leg here. The term “Stuck on Stupid” applies here.
Now for a little late night fun here.
An old Fav of mine from a 1985 deployment to the Philippines with the old 1St Group when America had a President that mattered and America had a little respect around the world.
Now if you will excuse me I have Mr. Obama’s War going on here. We may win it despite him.
ilovebeeswarzone, Thanks! You beat me to it!
How about a poll?
OT2 nice of you to come tell them to tip toe so nt to disturb their garden and call on the MV SWEEPER and tell the operator to appologyse because he disturb the seeds that after all belongs to them ,you know my laptop is jealus and crash on me if i talk to someone i like or watch a video he want to control me but i never like bulley anywhere bye and come back to me
How ironic to quote America’s quintessential Black Communist.
BRob the Liar’s shift must be over. I wonder if Soros pays him double time for Sunday work?
I did notice that the odor around here has improved…. and it wasn’t because someone changed socks.
My favorite wartime deployment song was “Bungle in the Jungle” by Jethro Tull but I’m too lazy to try and find a youtube feed.