Chinese harass unarmed US surveillance ship with civilian crew


As Hillary cozies up to China on behalf of her boss, Obama, in order to keep the currency flowing into the US, the Chinese themselves have been emboldened in aggression. That is if you can consider Chinese vessels harassing an unarmed US surveillance ship, manned by a hefty crew of civilians, “emboldened”. Cowardly is the first description that pops into my mind… schoolyard bully stuff.

The Chinese vessels involved were one Navy intelligence collection ship, a Bureau of Maritime Fisheries Patrol Vessel, a State Oceanographic Administration patrol vessel ,and two small Chinese-flagged trawlers.


The Pentagon reports that five Chinese vessels stalked the USNS Impeccable while in international waters… approaching within 25-50 feet of the ships hull, moving into it’s path, attempting to snag the LF sonar equiment, and throwing debris into the water.

The Pentagon said Monday that Chinese ships harassed a U.S. surveillance ship Sunday in the South China Sea in the latest of several instances of “increasingly aggressive conduct” in the past week.

During the incident, five Chinese vessels “shadowed and aggressively maneuvered in dangerously close proximity to USNS Impeccable, in an apparent coordinated effort to harass the U.S. ocean surveillance ship while it was conducting routine operations in international waters,” the Pentagon said in a written statement.

The crew members aboard the vessels, two of which were within 50 feet, waved Chinese flags and told the U.S. ship to leave the area, the statement said.

“Because the vessels’ intentions were not known, Impeccable sprayed its fire hoses at one of the vessels in order to protect itself,” the statement said. “The Chinese crewmembers disrobed to their underwear and continued closing to within 25 feet.”

After the Impeccable alerted the Chinese ships “in a friendly manner” that it was seeking a safe path to depart the area, two of the Chinese ships stopped “directly ahead of USNS Impeccable, forcing Impeccable to conduct an emergency ‘all stop’ in order to avoid collision,” the statement said.

“They dropped pieces of wood in the water directly in front of Impeccable’s path.”

The Pentagon reports this is one of the most aggressive incidents they’ve seen in some time, and the US Embassy in Beijing lodged a formal protest with the Chinese government. The Chinese have refused comments.

This is the third of similar incidents over the past week.

The Pentagon cited three previous instances of what it described as harassment, the first of which occurred Wednesday, when a Chinese Bureau of Fisheries Patrol vessel used a spotlight to illuminate the the ocean surveillance ship USNS Victorious.

In that incident, which occurred about 125 miles from China’s coast in the Yellow Sea, the Chinese ship “crossed Victorious’ bow at a range of about 1,400 yards” in darkness without notice or warning. The following day, a Chinese Y-12 maritime surveillance aircraft conducted 12 fly-bys of Victorious at an altitude of about 400 feet and a range of 500 yards.

The next day, a Chinese frigate approached Impeccable “and proceeded to cross its bow at a range of approximately 100 yards,” which was followed less than two hours later by a Chinese Y-12 aircraft conducting 11 fly-bys of Impeccable at an altitude of 600 feet and a range of 100 to 300 feet, the statement said.

“The frigate then crossed Impeccable’s bow yet again, this time at a range of approximately 400-500 yards without rendering courtesy or notice of her intentions.”

And on Saturday, a Chinese intelligence collection ship challenged Impeccable over bridge-to-bridge radio, “calling her operations illegal and directing Impeccable to leave the area or ‘suffer the consequences,’ ” the statement said.

The USNS Impeccable is an Ocean Surveillance Ship, part of the Military Sealift Command’s (MSC) Special Mission Ships Program. Most special mission ships are operated by civilian mariners who work for private companies under contract to MSC. The Impeccable, launched in 1998, and delivered to the Navy in 2001, deploys LF passive sonar while underway, requiring a combined crew of merchant marines, surveillance towed array sensor system operations (SOC) technicians, and U.S. Navy sonar technicians.

The merchant marines operate, navigate and provide all the maintenance of the ship while the SOC techs are responsible for the sonar itself. They handle the maintenance of the sonar and the operational equipment that the Navy sonar technicians use to gather the data.

Ocean Surveillance ships’ missions work in accordance with the Navy’s Sea Shield initiative by sustaining access for maritime trade, coalition building, and military operations. One of six programs of the ONR Future Naval Capability (FNC) program, the Sea Shield focuses on missile defense, anti-submarine warfare, mine countermeasures and fleet/force protection technologies that support projecting global defensive assurance… and their main tasks are to identify and track undersea threats.

At the time of the incident, the Impeccable was sited about 75 miles south of Hainan, China… well outside any possible claim by China for territorial waters.

As the US economy remains fragile, and the Obama administration’s lofty ambitions require vast spending and borrowed money, I expect we can see increased flexing of Chinese muscles in our future.

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Our national policy toward China has been a wreck for years. China is the biggest threat to our national security and we have allowed things like this (including imprisoning our 24 Airmen for 10 days) during the last administration. We should learned from that incident! Now America is impotent to be able to do anything. Massive debts to China, they own us now. How did we get into this situation!

Mata, I agree with you 100% that this is a bi-partisan and mentioned:”Our national policy toward China has been a wreck for years.” Since of course this administration is 40 something days old, it would worth pointing out (without naming names) that this type of behavior has been overlooked without any punitive action from us. Instead from 2001 from the time the Chinese crashed one of their planes into one of ours, we went from a trade imbalance of

US to China China to US Deficit
19,182.3 102,278.4 -83,096.1 2001
22,127.7 125,192.6 -103,064.9 2002
28,367.9 152,436.1 -124,068.2 2003
34,744.1 196,682.0 -161,938.0 2004
41,925.3 243,470.1 -201,544.8 2005
55,185.7 287,774.4 -232,588.6 2006
65,236.1 321,442.9 -256,206.7 2007
71,457.1 337,789.8 -266,332.7 2008

the trade deficit w/ China was high under Clinton too, it went from $22bn to $83bn.

(I wonder what part of our exports were the factories we dissembled and shipped there.)

I blame Pres Cigar Clinton as much as I do Pres GW Bush. They both sold out the national interest for cheap shit goods.

China plans to do what Japan tried to do in WWII. They have even
been developing weapons systems solely designed to defeat
our weapons systems. In China, the military is in charge
and you would be naive to think otherwise.
What’s scary is that it is not a matter of if, it’s a matter of
when. They think in decades and feel the key to defeating us is
to think outside the box. That means unconventional warfare–
as in limited nuclear, chemical, biological, and cyber warfare.
In fact a couple of retired Chinese generals wrote a book saying
it would be suicidal to try and fight conventionally. It was a big
hit with military leaders.
China has the biggest spy effort against America.
China has been trying to diversify financially so when the day
comes that they take action, they won’t be hurt as much economically.
Hell, we could be playing right into their hands by letting them
buy our debt.

Hard Right, I agree with your comment 100%…

Funny, wasn’t there an itty bitty Chinese/US Intel incident in the first few months of the Bush Administration? A little thing where a Chinese fighter rammed an American plane, forced it down in China where they held the crew and the plane until every bit of intel was compromised and taken.

Did we ever get the plane back?

Considering the cast of characters that now infest the White House, the State Department, and the halls of Congress these two stories may require further examination.

They were just blips on the radar a couple of weeks ago.

The second story I have not been able to double source.

I’m not saying that I believe the second story but it definitely got my attention considering the timing and sHillary’s Excellent Adventure ’round the world…….

The first story:

China Needs U.S. Guarantees for Treasuries, Yu Says

Feb. 11 (Bloomberg) — China should seek guarantees that its $682 billion holdings of U.S. government debt won’t be eroded by “reckless policies,” said Yu Yongding, a former adviser to the central bank.

The U.S. “should make the Chinese feel confident that the value of the assets at least will not be eroded in a significant way,” Yu, who now heads the World Economics and Politics Institute at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, said in response to e-mailed questions yesterday from Beijing. He declined to elaborate on the assurances needed by China, the biggest foreign holder of U.S. government debt.

Now, I didn’t give that two thoughts when it came ‘cross the wires. It didn’t even register with me.

Then a few days later, I saw this:

By Dalighted – February 28, 2009 – 10:18pm

Re: US Gives China Eminent Domain Over US Property

28-Feb-09 10:46 am


BEIJING, China — Sources at the United States Embassy in Beijing China have just CONFIRMED that the United States of America has tendered to China a written agreement which grants to the People’s Republic of China, an option to exercise Eminent Domain within the USA, as collateral for China’s continued purchase of US Treasury Notes and existing US Currency reserves.

The written agreement was brought to Beijing by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and was formalized and agreed-to during her recent trip to China.

This means that in the event the US Government defaults on its financial obligations to China, the Communist Government of China would be permitted to physically take — inside the USA — land, buildings, factories, perhaps even entire cities – to satisfy the financial obligations of the US government.

Again, this may turn out to be nothing but, honestly, at this point I am putting nothing past the bunch at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Nothing.

@Scott Malensek:

Yes, Scott, Russia won the contract to fly the plane out.

It was flown out of China on July 5, 2001.

This report has a little more.

If my memory serves me, the crew destroyed much, if not all, of the sensitive equipment that was on board before being forced off the plane at gunpoint. I’m not sure how much of value was left to fall into Chinese hands once the plane fell into their control.

One of my greatest fears about Obama throwing away trillions of dollars is that it places America in a position to do nothing to thwart “our friends” from adventurism. Face it, The enemy invariably attacks on two occasions: a. When they’re ready. b. When you’re not. With this dim bulb as our C.I.C. and America’s economy in the tank and us going deep into debt, now is the time for China to re-take Taiwan. What would we do about it? Now’s the time for Iran to take it’s disputed Island and more. Now’s the time for Russia to roll over Ukrain and Georgia, or more. There are plenty of other despots in North Africa, Asia, Indochina, The Balkans, South America….. heck, look at Kasmir and Tibet. What would we do about any of it? Give Aid? With WHAT? This chinese mischief is alarming because to me it appears they’re up to something and don’t want to be watched. The question begs…..Why? Chuckles Biden may have actually been on to something.

I would suggest that future visits to this area should have a bit of company. A couple of frigates and a sub ought to do it.

They have even
been developing weapons systems solely designed to defeat
our weapons systems.

Given that our weapon systems are the state of the art, that’s what I’d expect them to do. Even if they don’t anticipate a hot war with us, they might have to fight other nations that buy our weapons.

Now America is impotent to be able to do anything. Massive debts to China, they own us now. How did we get into this situation!

Stupid statement. Strategically, the situation has involved H-Bombs and ICBMs since at least the 1960s (I don’t recall off the top of my head when the Chinese first had missiles that could hit us). This doesn’t mean that we can’t do anything, it merely means that the Chinese have a deterrent that would destroy both us and them. The financial situation is not that much different. The Chinese *could* stop loaning us money, or for that matter just sell all the US bonds they hold all at once; but their own economy is very dependent on ours. If we responded by cutting off their imports, or by defaulting, or by inflation, they would be hurt just as terribly as we are. Possibly more. Remember, if you owe the bank $100,000, the bank owns you; but if you owe the bank $100,000,000, you own the bank :-).
I would interpret the Chinese provocation as far more likely to be a test of Obama’s character than as an actual attempt to hide some activity in the SCS.

We are being softened up for the kill…

Once our economy is totally destroyed, the military will fall into disrepair and our ability to keep our finger on the trigger will fail due to lack of funding.

America will be attacked sometime within the next 3-5 years, most likely by a combined force of Russian and Chinese armies, following tactical nuclear strikes on key command / supply centers.

They are just waiting to catch us with our pant’s down.

Obama is just a pre-programmed puppet of Soros and Alinsky and is simply carrying out his prime directive. He is little more than an over-inflated fool.

The real traitors are those in Congress and the courts who have knowingly sold out their country for money and power.


I wouldn’t put any credence in that. I trace it to
an article on Note the author, one Dr. A True Ott. He appears to be some sort of Mormon apostate given to conspiracy theories, and frankly a complete loon. You will notice that he *also* claims that the Chinese are preparing for devastating biological warfare in order to occupy our lands, which seems like it would make the eminent domain unnecessary; but maybe they just like to hedge their bets. In other news, though, he believes that the Mormon Church was taken over at some point in its early history by Luciferian-Masonic forces that practice human sacrifice. And I’m guessing he believes really a whole lot more stuff that I’m not even going to look up, because life is short and I really should get back to work…


You may be right bbart.

As I said, it was just a blip on the radar that got my attention only when combined with a couple of other blips.


Finger on the trigger, hair trigger, it gets worse. Things are falling into disrepair.

You can eliminate General Kevin Chilton as a future nominee for Air Force Chief of Staff, or Chairman of the JCS.

General Chilton, who currently runs U.S. Strategic Command, has been carefully–and publicly–correcting the Obama Administration over its nuclear weapons policies. For almost a year, Chilton has warned that the American nuclear arsenal (and its supporting infrastructure) is aging and in serious need of modernization.

To be fair, American forces have an advantage in other areas, most notably our ballistic missile submarine force. But a credible nuclear deterrent is built on ICBMs, bombers and missile subs. But two legs of our strategic triad are getting long in the tooth, and it seems clear that Mr. Obama has no plans for modernization.

And, he wants to downgrade the alert posture of our nuclear forces. Last month, the president vowed to make good on a campaign promise, and “take U.S. and Russian missiles off hair-trigger alert.”

Under our current readiness posture, land-based ICBMs can be launched within 3-4 minutes of a presidential order; submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs) can be fired in 12 minutes of receiving a validated launch directive. America’s nuclear bombers were removed from alert by President George H.W. Bush in 1991, at the end of Cold War. During their alert days, bomber crews could be airborne in five to fifteen minutes, depending on their assigned status.

Mr. Obama’s comments have drawn the ire of General Chilton, who has made it clear that he disagrees with the “hair trigger”connotation. From the Global Security Newswire:

He goes on to post an explanation given by General Chilton of problems encountered if de-alerting becomes policy and then we get to China and Russia.

Interestingly enough, Russia has long opposed removing its own strategic forces from alert. With the collapse of its conventional forces in the 1990s, Moscow is more reliant on nuclear forces to provide strategic deterrent. However, the Russians would certainly support a unilateral move on the part of the U.S.

The same holds true for China, which (coincidentally) is pushing a de-alert resolution in the U.N. General Assembly. Did we mention that Beijing is rapidly expanding–and modernizing–its strategic forces, fielding mobile ICBMs are that difficult to target, and a new generation of ballistic missile subs? Funny, but the Chinese resolution makes no mention of their own forces.

All the more reason to avoid the “de-alerting” option. Too bad that no one in the White House will listen to General Chilton. And, with his willingness to speak “truth to power,” we’d say his days at STRATCOM are already numbered.

Well… I predicted early on that rogue nations around the world will not “unclench” their fist, but instead become more belligerent. North Korea is shooting missiles and putting their military on “war footing”; China is harassing boats; Russia is still defiant; and Iran continues to supply hezbollah and continues to pursue a nuke bomb. It just shows how much the world respects Obama… they think he’s a chump.


And which US leaders have these nations respected in the last 50 years?

Nothing. But that’s not my point.

These nations haven’t repected any US leader.

Sino-US policy wasn’t born on inauguration day, it evolved to this point with the help of W.

I agree in most cases, if not all, that Obama/Clinton charm offensive will fail with certain hardline states as quickly as his hope for bipartisanship within Congress.

However there seem to be an implication that they previously respected other US leaders. As far as I can see they haven’t.

They think Bush and Obama are chumps and remember that when Bush was elected he was a novice in regards to foreign relations too.

yes, and the help of previous administrations, you like to attack a thirty+ day old administration and ignore the last eight years. That’s what we like to call recent history.

…the trade deficit w/ China was high under Clinton too, it went from $22bn to $83bn.

Was that with or without our sensitive missile technology??

Skye: Was that with or without our sensitive missile technology?

Very interesting… I had to look that one up, but nice going Hughes Electronics Corporation, which was owned by GM at the time. Go figure that an American company would sell its soul for some money in China. Lots of connections to CitiGroup as well since its former CEO is on the board at Citi. Companies that act against the national interest should be lose their corporate status and be dissolved. The people who made the illegal decisions should be in prison or worse.

All I’m going to say, is we have a sense of humor.
Next time our secret underwear weapon will be used as often as possible.
Soon the imperial hegemony of your capitalist american naval dominance will be at an end.

The story of the spy plane that I read was the U.S. wanted the plane back, the Chinese chopped it up and sent it back to the U.S. and then the U.S. pieced it together and flew at least one time after that.

This is a diplomatic response test. We’ll see how Clinton and Obama handle this. I have a feeling they won’t handle it well. Clinton is an idiot in foreign affairs and Obama can’t multitask.

This is not the first of these incidents and they are most likely all about the “secret” underwater nuclear sub base that China has built near Sanya City on the southern tip of Hainan Island that was discovered last May.

Since then, we have been monitoring the coming and goings of these vessels, hence the deployment of “survey vessels” like the Impeccable. I would imagine that they are using and laying sonar bouys and other means of tracking the deep sea entrances to the South China Sea.

An Underwater Threat…pub_detail.asp

“As America and its allies focus their diplomatic energy on the Middle East and Afghanistan, China continues to alter the balance of power in East Asia with little fanfare and even less resistance. Consider recent revelations that China has built a massive new naval base in Sanya, on Hainan Island. The strategically located base, which features underground facilities, provides the Chinese Navy with hard-to-monitor deep-water access to the South China Sea and the Indian Ocean region, as well as the ability to project military power in trade routes considered vital to all Asian countries. Since World War II, the U.S. Navy has policed these sea routes. Washington and its allies have provided the security that has underwritten Asia’s remarkable growth in trade and prosperity. By building a Navy capable of taking on U.S. forces, however, it seems Beijing is now seeking to contest that U.S. maritime dominance–a move that could seriously undermine peace and prosperity throughout Asia.

The new base at Sanya will be able to handle numerous nuclear submarines, destroyers and, when China decides to build them, aircraft carriers. Already, China’s latest Jin-class nuclear ballistic-missile submarine has been spotted at the base, just a few hundred kilometers from China’s Southeast Asian neighbors, such as Vietnam. Complicating matters further, Beijing has driven massive tunnels into hillsides surrounding the base, which will let China shield its subs from detection by satellites and leave Washington practically blind when those subs do deploy.

To close observers of the Chinese military, the base’s construction is just the latest in a sustained Chinese effort to rapidly build up its military, particularly its Navy. Since 1995, when most countries were shrinking their defense budgets and downsizing their militaries in the aftermath of the cold war, China has commissioned more than 30 new submarines. It has acquired or is building at least five different classes of subs–a number unmatched by any other military. In addition to this ever-growing underwater force, Beijing has launched an impressive array of advanced destroyers, fielded more than 1,000 ballistic missiles since the early 1990s at a rate of 150 a year, and acquired hundreds of the most modern fighter aircraft. Many experts on the Chinese military tend to explain away this rapid buildup as necessary to deterring Taiwan’s independence. But China faces no serious challenge from Taiwan, and Taiwan’s military has done comparatively little to augment its firepower over the past decade. The fact is that for some time now, China has had more than enough military capacity to deter Taiwan from formally breaking with the mainland. Indeed, if anything, the worry today is that China can coerce Taiwan into a settling their dispute on Beijing’s terms. It also hasn’t escaped notice from others in the neighborhood that all these new military capabilities targeting Taiwan could also be used for alternative purposes.

Given that China faces a benign security environment with no real threats, its true military goals remain a mystery. Privately, however, U.S. officials are voicing concern. The Pentagon estimates that by 2010, China’s will be able to deploy five submarines equipped with nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles, making its nuclear force far more powerful and likely to survive an attack.

The Americans aren’t the only ones growing nervous. Last week, the Indian cabinet discussed China’s new base, and the Indian Navy chief expressed serious concern. He rightly suspects that a stronger Chinese nuclear Navy means that Beijing may plan on challenging Delhi’s longtime dominance of the Indian Ocean. Tokyo, for its part, is increasingly worried that its old rival is developing the ability–and the intention–to project power around Japan with impunity. Over the past few years, Japanese officials have reported dozens of Chinese maritime incursions into disputed waters close to Japan’s shores. And China will soon have the hardware to allow it to forcefully settle claims to disputed islands in the South China Sea–much to the consternation of the Philippines and Vietnam.

Nothing less than the future of East Asia now hangs in the balance. For many years, America’s security umbrella over the region has allowed Asia’s great powers, including China, to focus on economic growth rather than military competition. Now China’s rapid buildup could spark a costly regional competition that could potentially slow Asia’s economic growth, as funds are diverted to military spending and investors are scared away.

The last three U.S. administrations have based their China policies on hopes about what China might someday become. It is time to face the reality of what China has already created. This means devoting more military resources to the region and strengthening U.S. allies in order to reassure those them and send Beijing the message that the United States is committed to the regional status quo–which includes the maintenance of free markets and free governments across the Pacific. Beijing may not get it, yet. But such a U.S. response would be in everyone’s interests.”

That last paragraph is important. Obama is being tested big time.

I expect nothing from this Chicago huckster except capitulation.

Welcome to the real world Bambi…maybe Hillary can go back there with a “reset button”…


WHEN the cold war ended with Russia, it seems that everyone in Washington forgot about China being #3 in things. Proclaiming “We won!” was not only premature but the biggest understatement that anyone could have made.

Instead of trying to reign in spending on all levels, AS A COUNTRY we are more than happy to just keep spending more and more and the citizens have been happily plodding along allowing it to happen. So, we keep spending more and happily asking China to buy it up.

Has anyone stopped for one second to wonder what will happen when China calls in the debt?

Couple that in with the military build up. China may well be preparing to do just that. Call in the debt and take what they rightfully own thanks to our government as well as ourselves for letting it happen.

And as far as the trade deficit, you need look no further but your local department stores. Pick up almost anything and look to see “Made In China.” Sickening!

And exactly how much outsourcing are American traitors companies sending there?

At this rate, we might as well drop the red, white and blue and just raise the Chinese flag.
It’d damn sure make those leftist happy (until they have the reality hit) and shut those up who always complain about the U.S. and how evil we are (until the reality hits).


Hawk: At this rate, we might as well drop the red, white and blue and just raise the Chinese flag.

Be sure to take a look at the label first, the flag was probably made in China anyway.

what we have in our white house now is a joke,the bs he has and is spouting is pure bs,other nations have respected our countrybecause of our military might,president bush protected us as a nation after 911,this message about obama giving china eminent domain over us property,the map in the article only showed ca,hi,as the asking price,we should send all our elected officals that are not doing any thing to help this country send them to china so they can see what our country will look like in next 4 years if we continue to sit idle and do nothing to stop them,our military is working their a$$ off to protect us,they spend tour after tour for us and we have yet heard our congress, some senators house leaders say thank you or give them what they need to get the job done right with out hearing house leaders whine because of spending money on lost war,the only thing this country has lost is it’s backbone as citizens,we let our elected officals put us in this mess,they can spend billions on things like termites,bees keepers,wetland study,give billions to people that should have never bought a house they couldn’t afford,bail out wallstreet when they overstretch ,say things are to big to fail,,that’s all bs,,american people know how to work to get any thing they want,yet the last two generations seem to believe that the government owes them,we let accorn run our elections,we let people throw around the race card just to get the few to rise up and cause us stress and we back down, i’m tired of all this bs coming from the very few to upset the mighty of our great country,if the true americans don’t stand up and do something,anything then we might as well let every country in world in that wants in,our laws are starting to mean nothing,our constition means even less,i’m proud of this country,i served in our military,i follow the rules we made as a country,and to think a few are just giving away what we have worked so hard for, they will take it from my cold dead hands,as i breath my last breath,GOD HELP US,WE SEEM TO HAVE FORGOTTON HOW TO HELP US.

Blame the Clinton administration for advancing China’s weapon systems. He GAVE the Chinese government “technology transfers” worth billions in research and even more strategically. The purpose of these transfers were to advance China’s scientific capabilities so that they could build and launch satellites for big US communication giants. The savings in labor costs making it cheaper for the Chinese to build and launch.

Clinton should have been impeached for treason for that. Much of the technology for these high tech spacecraft and launch vehicles is the same as that needed to build advanced atomic warhead delivery systems.

To be blunt. Prior to Clinton signing off on these technology transfers, Chinese nuclear ballistic missiles were incapable of reaching the US. Once the Chinese were able to launch spacecraft into stable orbits, they became able to lob atomic bombs at any nation in the world.

Thanks for nothing Bubba!

With free trade agreements and manufacturing favoring China, they have been flooded with US money, some of which they have loaned back to the US to pay for our government’s deficit spending. Quite a bit of China’s profits have not gone to helping to raise the standard of living for their people, but to fund a wide scale build-up in advanced military systems and an expansion of their military might.

Washington DC and corporations have acted stupidly, all in the name of free trade and profits. In effect, they have put China’s military on steroids, and one day there will be a reckoning with this increasingly hostile giant.

ditto: With free trade agreements and manufacturing favoring China, they have been flooded with US money, some of which they have loaned back to the US to pay for our government’s deficit spending. Quite a bit of China’s profits have not gone to helping to raise the standard of living for their people, but to fund a wide scale build-up in advanced military systems and an expansion of their military might.

And Ditto, you were right with your chastising Clinton for China getting their hands on out technology, what about assigning responsibility for the above quoted material, including who did not lift a finger to make sure the Yuan (Chinese currency) was properly valued as not to flood our country with cheap Chinese goods (and thus damaging our industries). Who was in charge then?

CLINTON AND GW. BUSH. It became an art under President Bush as we shipped boatloads of money to them for them to reinvest in their military.

ditto: Thanks for nothing Bubba!

Why don’t you thank President Bush too?

The secret underwear weapon doth cause great consternation and internal reflection amongst the imperialist americans.
Ni Hao!!! Ni Hao!!!

@ Blast

Bush did seek and get other “Free Trade” Agreements, and he continued to use his office to push through a “Free Trade”agenda, which, (I agree,) he deserves his share of blame for, but the subject of this thread was China. As I have said before, I give blame where blame is due. During his Presidency, Bush W also supported trade with China and did little to stop China’s unfair trade practices, but he wasn’t the one who signed the “Free Trade” agreements that opened this economic Pandora’s Box of trade with China. The trade agreements with China were finalized before his presidency. It was Bill Clinton who awarded “most favored nation” status to China. NAFTA and GATT also came under Clinton’s watch. Union and factory workers did not have a friend in Bubba.

You must have missed it where Bush’s administration protested about China’s manipulations of it’s Yuan. But at the same time there isn’t a lot that can be done about that on the presidential level. That’s a world financial market issue. Granted Bush was surely involved in the loan negotiations where China bought part of our national debt, those debt loans were being sold to any and all who would finance it. But that government financed debt is not the same as the trade deficit debt. The trade deficit monies were not shipped to China on government ships, but via corporate financial means. I have stated on other threads that I was not a fan of Bush. I support fair trading agreements but not these unbalanced “Free Trade” Agreements. I do blame both Bush and both parties in Congress for keeping the incentives programs going for manufacturing to move overseas, but he again, did not initiate the unbalanced trade with China process, he inherited it.

Economics is sadly like that. Factories go where it is stable and costs are lower. We’ve seen it happen in japan, korea and singapore moving production to vietnam and china, it’s not just a US or western world phenomena. You cannot fight too much against it or else you just become uncompetitive. Instead the best way is to gently change your services to stuff that is different or more high-end where you have an advantage over these low-wage and low-cost areas. Of course easier said than done, when the jobs vanish overseas, but what is the point having artificially high wages to produce an uncompetitive product that nobody wants to buy??? Of course it gets the votes from the workers, but uncompetive industries will crash and burn eventually(like your automakers now). Esp during a financial crisis, since they are already weak from their structure.

The Yuan is too low??? Use your $$$ and buy up chinese assets then. Many of your banks made double, triple or more by taking base stakes in the big chinese banks following their restructuring and refloat abt 5 years ago.

Whatever the case, it is tough times for all, so I suggest we all hold our underwear tightly and try to survive through these next years as best we can.