Eclipsed by the election campaignining, this story slipped under the radar. Much has been said about the invasion of Iraq. Often there are claims that there were no weapons of mass destruction and no ties to Al Queda. In fact, most of the WMD claims that were made before the invasion turned out to be true. Iraq was not clean and innocent in regards to WMD, and the ties to Al Queda were wrongly dismissed.
One of those ties regard Saddam’s involvement with Al Queda groups like Ansar al Islam which no one disputes was present and active in the northern section of Saddam’s Iraq. Opponents of the war dismiss that tie by saying that if they weren’t in the part of Iraq that Saddam controlled, then they weren’t under his control. That’s a nice piece of rhetoric, and it’s good spin, but it’s ignorant of the fact that Ansar was the ONLY means of influence Saddam had in the North (that, and the threat of invading the north). He used Ansar as his proxy guerrilla force to attack his Kurdish enemies and impose his will in the North.
The point remains, Ansar and other Al Queda groups were inside Iraq in 2002, and the CIA knew it. They knew it because they sent extremely brave people there-into Iraq, and those people monitored the Al Queda until the Pentagon blew the opportunity to destroy the camps.
Charles “Sam” Faddis, who led a CIA team into northern Iraq following the 9/11 attacks, says the Pentagon’s “endless planning and delays” foiled a chance to wipe out a band of al Qaeda leaders who were fleeing American bombs in Afghanistan.
Faddis says the delays, beginning in 2002, also facilitated the escape of some “key” al Qaeda figures, including terrorist scientists who were working on chemical and biological weapons.“Some died, some are still on the run,” Faddis said in a telephone interview Tuesday, following his appearance on NPR’s Diane Rehm Show to promote a new book, Operation Hotel California: The Clandestine War Inside Iraq.
“The site was physically destroyed … but certainly the research wasn’t destroyed.”
To argue that the Pentagon “botched” this is to argue that there was something substantial to be botched. Admitting the US missed an opportunity to attack Al Queda in Iraq before 2002 is admitting that there was enough of an Al Queda presence in Iraq before the invasion to warrant military action.
Today, Ansar al Islam’s remnants and other Al Queda groups are lumped into the term AQI for Al Queda in Iraq groups as if they are all the same. Like all Al Queda groups, they are affiliated-not the same. They have great differences, but bear common themes, objectives, tactics, and alliance.
Why is this important today? America is looking at two more years of war in Iraq under President Obama. To accomplish anything, Americans must support efforts to succeed. It’s time to put away the anti-war, political opposition rhetoric, finally recognize facts such as this one, and support not only the troops, but the hard work, the good work that they are doing.
Author of “Reparations and America’s 2nd Civil War
Reparations and America’s 2nd Civil War: Malensek, Scott: 9798864028674: Amazon.com: Books
Our own FBI claims there were no Al Queda groups in Iraq (before the war began) and that Saddam Hussein hated Bin Laden. This FBI agent also claims there were NO WMD in Iraq before the war began.
“Oh, you couldn’t imagine the excitement that I was feeling at that point,” Piro remembers.
“And what did he tell you about how his weapons of mass destruction had been destroyed?” Pelley asks.
“He told me that most of the WMD had been destroyed by the U.N. inspectors in the ’90s. And those that hadn’t been destroyed by the inspectors were unilaterally destroyed by Iraq,” Piro says.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/24/60minutes/main3749494.shtml
I’m guessing, but I’m confident that uber racist Hitler didn’t like Japanese Tojo either. Fact remains, the CIA was in Iraq in 2002 monitoring an Al Queda camp controlled by Saddam’s regime. Leaders and nations don’t have to love each other to be willing to work together (see also Churchill and Stalin).
The FBI? My father used to deal with them as they shared a building. They were nicknamed Fumbling Bumbling Idiots for a reason. I’ll trust the CIA on this sort of thing before I trust the FBI.
That’s it non-patriot, keep clinging to your fantasy and living in denial. The facts are Al-Q was in Iraq before the war and Saddam used them. Period.
Hard Right, I believe the FBI interrogator. I also believe the FBI said that Saddam’s regime had close ties to Egyptian Islamic Jihad. Interestingly enough, 2/3 of Al Queda proper leadership came from…Egyptian Islamic Jihad. Documents captured and authenticated at Saddam’s intel HQ confirm this. Maybe that’s why the relationship between Saddam’s regime and Al Queda were item #4 in the 1998 DOJ indictment of Osama Bin Laden.
Saddam had a reason to take the truth with him, the remainder of his family. I don’t believe anything he said to Piro, neither does my nephew who guarded him.
So I am to believe that the FBI knows more about foreign intelligence than the CIA???? Really. I want to know how the FBI knew this???? Isn’t this out of thier jurisdiction???
The CIA is the froreign intelligence and the FBI is domestic. So I would place my money on the CIA knowing more about foreign terrorists than the FBI. And remember they had the Wall between them thanks to Gorelic.
This report from the CIA guys who were there in 2002 has another importance. A man named Abu Wael. He’s one of the leaders of the Al Queda in Iraq groups right now, and apparently was one of the leaders (along with the late Abu Musab al Zarqawi) who ran Ansar in the North in 2002. This week he made the news (if it is indeed the same man) when he united 15 terror groups in Iraq to fight the US if the status-of-forces agreement is reached; united 15 terror groups in Iraq to fight the US specifically during an Obama Administration.
IF it’s the same man (still unconfirmed), then it’s worth pointing out that numerous reports claim Abu Wael was one of Saddam’s guys working for Saddam’s intel services at the behest of Saddam’s senior thug, Izzat Ibrahim al Douri. Izzat is Saddam’s OFFICAL successor, is in exile (suspected in Syria), and has been leading the insurgency since its inception back in 2003/04.
How ironic that the new face of Al Queda in Iraq for an Obama Admin would be Saddam’s liason to Al Queda groups from before the invasion?
link
Stix1972 and Hard Right…
Did either of you read the link?? I am guessing NOT… Hard Right your facts are incorrect!!!
Keep living in your right wing dream world
Stix, during the Clinton years FBI took responsibility for attacks on Americans overseas and offices were setup in embassies around the world.
@Scott: I forgot about that.
Read the article. You only believe the part you cherry picked because it fits in your fantasy. The facts prove otherwise. Phony patriot, Al-Q was in Iraq before the invasion and saddam used them. End of debate. Go back to DUNG or Kos now. We live in the real world–unlike you.
Stix, I still don’t trust them to get it right. Accidents happen tho.
This is not about believing the CIA vs. the FBI. From the very article that Scott referenced, Faddis specifically contradicts the conclusion that Scott has drawn:
@Real American Patriot
You need to brush up on this.
This includes some of the best information I have seen about Iraq and WMDs.
Reasic, please check out
That’s the link.
@Real American Patriot and @Real American Patriot:
George Piro was covered at least twice, here.
What we learned independant of questioning saddam, was that he planned to make WMDs once our attention was off of him, he was not in full compliance for WMDs, Al-Q was in Iraq before we invaded. There is no debate on this. Only leftists who live in absolute denial of reality claim otherwise.
Scott,
I’ll check your link, but that’s a different source. In this post, you’ve drawn the conclusion that Faddis (the CIA agent) confirmed that Al Qaeda was indeed in Iraq before the invasion. However, the very person you’re quoting specifically refutes that claim later in the same article. You’ve been debunked by your own source. He says that they may have been there at one time, but that there was no relationship with Saddam — they were doing recon in northern Iraq, just like the CIA was.
Reasic, your confused. They confirm that AQ was in Iraq in 2002, but the CIA wasn’t in Iraq in 2001, and thus the CIA people who were there in 2002 couldn’t confirm if the AQ guys were in Iraq in 2001. Kinda like saying I went to Disneyworld in 2002, but and Buzz Lightyear was there, but I don’t know if he was there before I got there. That’s why you need to connect the dots (911 Commission term) and continue to examine the issue of regime ties (as every investigation said still needs to be done; see also the first link in my original post).
A lot of opponents to the war in Iraq would like to believe that the matter of regime ties is a closed issue. It is not, and no bi-partisan and/or independent investigation has ever said it should be.
Famous
But
Incompetent
Al-Qaeda operatives were being trained inside Iraq at the all world terrorist training facility outside of Baghdad known as Salman Pak(Summer of 2002 at the latest). They were being trained in, among other things, chemical weapons and poisons and were being trained by the Iraqi military intelligence apparatus known as Unit 999. This comes from Josef Bodansky, one of the world’s foremost authors on the global islamic jihad.
To add to Allen’s Bodansy reference, he is also the author of The Secret History of the Iraq War He is no “wingnut” by liberal standards. I’m in the middle of it now…
It seems to me that Sky55110/RAP and Reasic are arguing semantics. They suffer from the delusional malady that only AQ is the enemy, and that none of these guys align with each other to accomplish a common goal.
al Zarqawi came into N. Iraq and merged his al-Tawhid militant group with Ansar al-Islam in mid-2002. Zarqawi fought the Soviets in Afghanistan, and was trained in Bin Laden camps. They didn’t have any particular love for each other… UBl seeing him as too ambitious and abrasive. However UBL’s AQ colleague, Saif al-Adel, sees potential and helps him finance a training camp in Herat near the Iranian border in early 2000. Zarqawi has pretty much blown any ability to operate in his native Jordan by then.
The point here is the Iraq Perspective reports document that Saddam used these various militant movements as an unofficial state weapon. He had ties to Zawahiri since 1993. But the naysayers like Sky/Reasic like to parse words and say he wasn’t AQ then. Tho he did not merge with AQ officially at that time, they did cooperate on needed operations. A good example of this may be Somalia in 93
They use the same parsing with Zarqawi, saying he wasn’t working with Saddam and not part of AQ then. Yet it was AQ who helped set up his training camps and contributed financing.
The left really must learn who the enemy is, how he works, and stop looking for the AQ badges to determine if they are bad guys. This isn’t the real world. It’s highly unlikely that, after all this time and historic documents have been released, that people like Sky/RAP “get it” now. The BS media propaganda is so ingrained. But it’s of the utmost importance that our leadership and intel facilities do.
The laugh is that Piro assumes he knows so much of Saddam and his history because of interviewing a caged animal. What Piro really needs to do is pour over the confiscated Harmony/ISG docs for some additional perspective.
Don’t forget the following Al Qaeda/Iraq connections: Ayman al Zawahiri, Samir al Ani, Farooq Hijazi, Abu Hajer al Iraqi and Salim al Ahmed just to name a few.
@Hard Right: “my dad worked in the same building as the fbi”? great info. now if only your dad was a commando, you’d be chuck norris.
Someone has established their cyberself as a smart ass on the very first post.
Or a dumb ass. We shall see.
Pardon my shameless pimping for a moment…
@Scott Malensek:
Panderer!
RAP’s tenet that the FBI said there were no WMDs, therefore the CIA must be wrong had me ROTFL.
RAP you are aware, aren’t you, that one of the pre-9/11 problems with our intel agencies as pointed out in the post-9/11 findings was that they were notoriously bad about keeping information close to their vests and not sharing it with outside agencies? Although the FBI might outreach their charter by delving into international issues they primarily have only a domestic jurisdiction. It is that very thing that resulted in the lack of crosstalk between agencies. The CIA didn’t like them sticking their noses into their recipes.
I suppose having to endure the anthrax shots while I was “playing in the sandbox”, was only to perpetuate the Bush WMD myth, eh? Boy, oh boy, that makes me feel all warm and cozy. I was one of the few who had adverse reactions to the vaccine. My right arm swelled up twice it’s size and was as hard and red as the heel of my foot. When time came for my next inoculation, the remedy was to shoot the other arm. Happy-happy-joy-joy, what a surprise when it had a similar reaction. Ya’ think I would have had to go through that if it was all a myth?
How about Gulf War Syndrome and our troops that presented with chem/bio exposure symptoms? Guess that was all made up too. He-yuck! That Bush & Cheney, what great kidders. Go-wan’ pull the other leg. Just more Republican propaganda to support a war to steal Iraq’s oil, right? So tell me, exactly how much free oil did we get out of that deal? Got any totals on that RAP? We’ll want sources ya’ know so please provide the links.
Oh Scott;
Thanks for the link in post #14. Saw some of those same photos of the WMDs found while I was in. There were others, but I have no idea if they’ve been declassified for public release.
Thanks for your service Rocky.
I have lots more pics btw. When it comes to WMD, one really needs to form a sort of checklist of allegations. I didn’t/don’t trust GWB or any politician’s claims when it comes to war, so I went to the UN and other sources. Just two weeks before the war Hans Blix put out a report called, Unresolved Disarmament Issues. It’s basically a list of all the allegations towards Saddam’s Iraq-a list that the politicians and media couldn’t bear to read so they lumped it all together as “WMD”. If you go through that report, then read the ISG Duelfer Report that lists all the stuff that was found-the Resolved Disarmament Issues if you will, then it’s real clear that most of the allegations proved to be sound. Some were not, but the bulk of them were. Dr David Kay summed it up best,
“It was reasonable to conclude that Iraq posed an imminent threat. What we learned during the inspection made Iraq a more dangerous place potentially than, in fact, we thought it was even before the war,”
-1/28/04 Dr. David Kay testimony to Sen. Intel. Committee
I see we have a couple of picky eaters refusing to eat their vegetables, all they want is dessert. Sit up and take your nourishment, boys, it’s good for you.
Thanks Scott, Mata, allen, Rocky, etc. Always appreciate your long studied information. Also thanks for the pandering/reminder, Scott. I plan to buy one of your books soon, winter’s coming on, no more yard work, which one do you recommend that I start with?
Hi Missy! I suppose if I were really interested in selling I’d say all of em or pick which one has the most markup. That’s not my thing though. I think Iraq’s Smoking Gun is probably the most interesting. The other Sam Pender books are very good too, but they’re all chronologies w almost nothing else. They’re history books-great references (especially America’s War w Saddam and The Ignored War), but Iraq’s Smoking Gun is the most interesting. As to the Scott Malensek books, definitely The Xmas War, but maaaaaaaaaaan, be prepared to read and read and read and read and read ’cause it’s BIG (700+ pages, and it is NOT structured to let the reader stop at any one particular point).
I plan on getting one at a time, otherwise I’ll be into more than one at a time and make myself mad at myself. A month or so ago I bought Fleeced/Morris and A Better Country/Borden, and had read them at the same time, ugh. Reading Fleeced has been a torture, lots of reminders in there, but don’t care for his style, looking forward to a break from Mr. Dick Morris.
With your books, I can pass them on to my nephew, he would appreciate your stuff. After he reads what books I send him, he passes them on, so, you will be circulating at Ft. Riley.
If anyone has clicked on the 4th trackback, or if there are any visiting readers from Thinking Meat (Welcome to FA!), you should all know that Meatbrain is no longer publishing responses from us. So much for intellectual honesty and courage to debate.
Here’s my comment from last night that did not get published:
Meatbrain:
If you click on the actual report link provided, you’ll see an example of just why media matters is to be held suspect for partisan spin. From the link:
Excerpt from the Silberman-Robb Report:
Excerpt from the SSCI Report on Iraq Prewar Intelligence:
Senate Select Committee on Intell Phase II Report:
@wordsmith:
wordsmith jumped the gun. meatbrain’s published Scott’s responses as well as my comment above, fished out of the spam filter.
You’re welcome Scott, and I thank all the vets who are with us here on FA and those who are not;
If I had my service career to do all over again, I would. I feel I got all the thanks I needed while I was in. And in those special few who were willing to carry on the torch, the sacrifices of those who served with me, those that went before, and those who never made it to become veterans. Our proud smiles and the distant glint in a vet’s eyes around this time each year are for them, not ourselves. I’m glad we have a venue like this where we can freely tell of our experiences and stories once in a while and relate them to the topics.
I joined during an era of double-digit inflation after post-high school a 4-year job fell through and left me in and overqualified/underqualified quandary for over 6 months. Though I admit to joining to learn a new marketable trade, I entered with the full intention to make it a career and never looked back.
I selected the daily challenges of being an aircraft crew chief. It had always looked on the recruitment commercials like fascinating work; marshaling and caring for aircraft much like a member of an Indy 500 pit-crew. In actuality, the job entailed busting butt working the longest hours of just about any other enlisted career field. Frequently sitting down in permanently stained uniforms scarfing down cold meals between tasks with gritty hands that you could never quite get clean. Still, it was an exhilarating experience to come back in the next day to find the fruits of your overnight labors resulted in successful missions at the end of the flying day and accepting the appreciation of the aircrew for ‘loaning them your damned fine jet’ to fly (The aircraft may have pilot names on one side, but ours were on the other. A dedicated crew chief sees their aircraft as ‘their baby’ and frets over them like a mother hen). Every day there were always new challenges to test your mettle.
Even though I am no longer physically employable in the occupation for which I was trained (which is ironic as before I went in it was ‘what I knew’ that once kept me unemployed). I know that in my time I did my damnedest to always do the job right the first time. And I got to meet a lot of great people in the process. Not only in my own branch, but in our sister services, NATO ally personnel, and with citizens of other countries. Some of us still keep in touch, others never were good with that sort of thing, and some are gone, but linger in our memories.
For those reading this considering the military, I can say it is personally (though perhaps not financially) a rewarding and life-changing choice. It’s difficult to find an occupation where one is so respected if only for having the courage to volunteer to be a part of something greater than oneself. Even if you only join for a single term, you are still a patriot. In this “gimmie mine” world we live in, you would be of the few that giveth back. I will forewarn you, that it won’t be an easy job regardless which career field you chose. It takes drive, determination, and dedication to succeed. It ain’t like flippin’ burgers at Mickey Dee’s. From the moment you enter basic training, you will be pushed to excel even despite yourself. You will be assigned tasks, locations, and work with or for people you not of your choosing. It’s won’t be those issues, but what you make of them that will define your successes or failures. You will discover capabilities that you never knew you had in you. There are some fringe benefits, yet if you are thinking of entering the military solely for those, you’re doing it for all the wrong reason and may want to reconsider. For you are joining a brotherhood and accepting upon your shoulders risks and burdens the vast majority of a population might never dream of or willfully take part in. And you would have truly earned your citizenship and that of your children and your children’s children.
And I’m sorry if I took us off topic again LOL.
Well Rocky, I enjoyed your story. My brother was career Navy doing the same thing you did. You forgot to mention that the work could be dangerous as well. In the late 60’s my brother lost an eye while recharging some kind of air conditioning unit on a plane, the unit exploded. He was retired from the Navy after recovery much to his disappointment. He said he would even take a desk job to stay in, but he also has memory loss, blackouts and is disabled, he just doesn’t like to think of it that way.
Thank you for your service, didn’t in anyway mean to frighten young ones from military service, we have danger in civilian careers too, Rocky, your job was a bit riskier than getting your hands stained. Got a feeling that might be an additional reason the flight crews respected you guys.
You are right of course Missy;
Yes, absolutely the military is risky business, even in peacetime. Hope it didn’t sound like I was “sugar-coating” it. The flightline is a particularly dangerous environment and carrier decks even more so. Any number of things can go wrong even if you do keep your mind on your work, while remaining keenly aware of everything going on around you, and take proper precautions. On carriers; Arresting cables have snapped and cut people in half, aircraft have crashed into carriers coming in too low in landing mishaps, and people have been lost at sea from being blown overboard by jet exhausts. It’s an understood risk that if you end up overboard from a big ship like that, chances are nobody is going to turn around to go look for you or your body. Especially during night operations. It’s like looking for a needle in a haystack.
You have to be ready to content with munitions mishaps, antenna radiation & chemical hazards, being sucked into jet intakes, or caught in movable surfaces. I remember one of our wing’s specialist lowered and F-4 ejection seat onto a live electrical panel, causing the rocket motor to fire. It caught him in the chest ripping him apart as he and the seat were pushed past the canopy. We lost another individual when he tried to service a wheel assembly with excessive pressure and it came apart blowing the rim through him.
Both of those were “dumb” accidents (i.e. preventable, had they read the danger entries in the aircraft’s forms or followed technical orders). Yet such things happen every once in a while. I recall another time when some idiots found some A-10 rounds and decided they would try to use a shop vice and “disarm them” by drilling a holes in the casings to get the powder out. One shell went off. The projectile went through a locker & two cinder-block wall, totally destroyed a toilet. Their chief certainly wasn’t a very happy camper. Had it gone off a couple of hours earlier, it might have nailed him reading his morning paper. Another time a couple of troops were somehow ejected down into the runway during a B-52 take-off. And It’s no picnic for pilots either. I’ve had my share of “camping trips” out gathering pieces from aircraft crash sites.
I’m sure your bro has lots of similar stories as well. Those I listed were only some of the Class 1 reportable type mishaps, but all-in-all such mishaps are fortunately fairly rare. We all get our share of “lesser” scars. I can’t count the number of times I’ve been burned on hot components, gotten bonked on the head by a flight surface, “Eagle bites” while rushing to get an aircraft airborne, or all the “near misses” and I’m about as deaf as a doornail from hush-house and hardened aircraft shelter engine runs.
Then you can add in the complication of sometimes having to wear bulky full chem-warfare ensembles with gas masks for several hours while attempting to do the same job. Just imagine doing that on a hot summer day in a desert environment. For a civilian to experience the novelty of this, try donning downhill skiiing garb & a diving mask. Then take turns playing cards and volley ball for 8-12 hours on a Florida beach at the height of tourist season.
Yes, military life can be quite the adventure. Even during those times when you don’t have an enemy intentionally trying to “do you in”.