29 Nov

Truth On Fiscal Cliff Negotiations [Reader Post]

                                       

We a

pprehensively advance through this nail biting moment in history as a great Nation floats, uncertain, caught in a holding pattern, hoping its leadership will find wisdom enough to avert the so called Fiscal Cliff, even if most of us don’t fully comprehend what such a cliff entails, or even if such a thing exists. We’re too busy struggling, hanging on to whatever we have, hoping for stability, and hoping that tomorrow brings some relief to our stress.

So let’s look for a little insight into what astute and gifted minds are really doing deep in the core of the negotiations apparently so critical to the very future of the Nation. Let’s dig for a sign of prescient coherence determining the very nature of our future.

Here is a discussion/interview which John Mauldin recently conducted with Rob Lehman and David Krone, the chiefs of staff for Senator Rob Portman (R-OH), and of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV), respectively. Lehman and Krone are two very key individuals in the current budget negotiations. Mauldin, who writes on economics and investments, usually refrains from using an ideologically tempered pen. Late in the somewhat non-descript forty minute discussion, a head snapper gets dropped by Lehman, who works on the Republican side of the negotiating table.

At minute 37:00 of the linked video Lehman (R) makes a statement about spending. “We’re talking about reductions in the growth of spending.” He confirms that there will be no reduction in spending. Krone (D), sitting next to him, is drooling out of camera shot. Washington does not spend less year-to-year. Ever. Is that clear? Negotiators are only negotiating amounts of spending increases and areas of such increases in spending. That’s it. Don’t believe anyone standing at a podium performing waffling prevarications in Washington while making claims of imminent spending cuts.

Oh, but wait, you say, what about that the $16.2 trillion in debt which we cannot ignore? When you spend $3.6 trillion, but receive $2.3 trillion, you have to cut over a trillion from your annual expenditures somewhere along the line if you harbor any hope of getting ahead of the backlog of debt and the corresponding overwhelming interest. What about that looming additional commitment in entitlements which will more than quadruple that debt? Hmm. Well, forget about it. Ignore it. Have a good Christmas, and Happy New Year. You’ll never be able to endure that burden, so why worry? We’ll just crank up the presses. Isn’t that how you pay back what you owe? Just print money?

Obama continues down the seemingly never-ending campaign trail, arrogantly pretending that he is providing tax cuts to the middle class and further pretending to demand a “balanced approach.” He has repeated his limited talking points at every recent use of the teleprompter. Someone might explain to him that retaining the Bush tax cuts which are due to automatically expire at the end of December, does not mean reducing the middle class tax rates. He either has no grasp of what he is claiming, or is knowingly lying to the taxpayers.

There are no tax cuts on the horizon and there are no expenditure reductions coming. Spending is out of control, and the truth is that tax increases are coming for all levels of society.

Everyone knows that the mantra “tax the rich” is just demagoguery, . . . well everyone except those with a paucity of common sense. Tax increases for the so-called rich will not put a dent in the deficit. And Obama’s claims of the approximately $10 billion in revenues anticipated from the rich is annoying. He still won’t acknowledge that such supposed anticipated amount is over 10 years. Please, someone tell him. The very rich probably don’t much care, since the increases will simply mean less real redistribution of wealth, but the increase will not impact their lifestyles.

Obama professes that only agreeing to his demands would avoid the ‘fiscal cliff’, and doing otherwise, “would be bad for the economy, it would be bad for those families (supposedly the whole middle class), in fact it would be bad for the world economy.”

He’s getting ahead of Republicans on the “message,” so that no matter what happens, Boehner and the Republican controlled House of Representatives will eat the negative fall-out. And the fall-out is coming, but what is not coming is spending reductions.

About James Raider

A constituent of the vast baby boomer generation with a career which has been fortunate to know the ponderous corporate worlds, as well as the intimately pressurized, and invigorating entrepreneurial domains of high tech and venture capital, I have harvested my share of mistakes meandering through corridors of enterprise from Silicon Valley, to London and endless, colourful, sometimes praetorian points in between. The voyage has provided an abundance of fodder for a pen yielding to an inquisitive keyboard, a foraging mind, and a passionate spirit. Whether political or business or social or economic or personal, is it not all political? It is a privilege to write, and an even greater privilege to be read by anyone, and sometimes with the wind at my back the writing may occasionally be legible. I do not write to invite scorn, nor to invite respect, but if I get really lucky the writing can stimulate thinking. I also write for the very selfish purpose of animating my own processes, and engaging the best of what life offers. Above all, whether biting fire or swatting shadows, I am grateful to be gifted the freedom to write and publish whatever flows down to the keyboard. To all those who enabled this freedom, and to all those standing guard to preserve it, I am indebted.
This entry was posted in Barack Obama, Congress, Economy, Politics. Bookmark the permalink. Thursday, November 29th, 2012 at 7:32 am
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80 Responses to Truth On Fiscal Cliff Negotiations [Reader Post]

  1. Skookum says: 1

    We are in the midst of abandoning the free market and the liberty of Classical Liberalism for the tyranny of Statism, direct and omnipotent state control over the economy and every aspect of our lives. No one can illustrate a case in point where state controlled economies were successful in the past, but our Statist-Democrats and Statist-Republicans are convinced they can control this once most powerful and dynamic economy. If it means abandoning the principles of Jefferson to embrace the tyrannical Statism of Lincoln, they are willing to make those compromises either through ignorance of history or willful design.

    Churning out money in an endless stream will work until the world begins to reject the idea of America’s unsupported wealth. When the world no longer wants to deal in dollars, the death spiral of the American economy will begin.

    It is ironic, the principles of the free market that are being abandoned now in favor of statism will ultimately determine the fate of the American economy. Oh, the wealthy will be inconvenienced, but they won’t participate in our stupidity; they will have their wealth in other places in the world and in other money markets. Investing in the US will seem as hopeless as investing in South America during the mid-twentieth Century.

    How does the plastic sack feel as they are putting over your head? Are you feeling a little nervous, just wait until they pull the drawstring tight around your neck. America’s wealth is about to be redistributed to the world.

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  2. Nan G says: 2

    One of Obama’s most innovative new taxes (that hurts only the middle class) is the tax on mortgages that were refinanced because they were underwater.
    Let’s say you owed $400,000 more than your home is now worth.
    You bank forgives $100,000 of that $400,000.
    Obama insists you pay taxes on that INCOME of $100,000 you got!
    Pretty slick, huh?
    Taxing Monopoly money!
    Only YOU pay with REAL dollars!

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  3. Hard Right says: 3

    obama and the dems want to take us over the cliff and get our credit rating downgraded further. This is all so they can gain further political advantage and blame the GOP for what the dems have done.
    This is their SOP. They intefere with the free market, cause a recession, and blame the GOP. They further suppress economic recovery (thru socialist fantasy and bumbling), and blame the GOP. Now, just to further cement their power, they are deliberately damaging the country. If not for their near monopoly on media, they would be in prison like they deserve.

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  4. Richard Wheeler says: 4

    NanG re #2 Your example is a loan modification and the $100,ooo you ref. is NOT taxable at any time.
    Skooks Chicken Little . R.E market is up over 10% last 12 months.Stock market holding up over 30% last 3 years. Consumer confidence at 3 year high.
    Reminder Repubs. lost Presidency and The Senate. Voters are saying “BE PART OF THE SOLUTION” Repubs. rooting for failure didn’t work on Nov.6th and it certainly won’t work now.

    H.R. re#3 Talk about fantasy. I can certainly see where you got your moniker.lol

    Semper Fi GO IRISH

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  5. Mully says: 5

    @Richard Wheeler:
    And the solution is higher taxes, which won’t make a dent in our deficit, and no entitlement reform as the Dems want? You call those solutions?

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  6. Hard Right
    hi,
    they are repeating the frame on and on,
    on the basis they can get away from the law,
    just like the GUN RUNNING FRAME, where no one is found guilty,
    but it will take one who is very in tune with their complicate machination to expose them,
    to their voters who will see how they where framed to vote for him against their will,
    and the tide will turn on OBAMA, and they will see how weak and unable to lead this great AMERICA,
    but only to destroy it to the point of an accumulation of rubles hidden under the pile of food stamps,
    and his voters will bare the shame of having believed in him without knowing who he is,
    and where he came from, and why he tried so hard to destroy the best NATION ON EARTH,
    and change it into a hated NATION by the lowest of the world whom he USED HIS POWER to
    MAKE THEM GROW into a big BEAST WITH POWER TO DESTROY THE WORLD.

    ReplyReply
  7. Richard Wheeler says: 7

    Mully I believe a deal will be cut with higher taxes on top 2%(or less) AND entitlement reform (not SSI).This is what a substantial majority of Americans are asking for. Lets get it done.

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  8. Mully says: 8

    @Richard Wheeler:

    I don’t see the point in raising taxes on anyone when it simply won’t do anything toward reducing the deficit.
    On average Obama has run 1.3 trillion dollars deficits every year since he has been in office. The taxing of the 2% you say is supported by most people will only bring in about 80 billion per year. 80 billion is a far cry from 1.3 trillion. My guess is most people have no idea that is the case because no Democrat will say it and few in the media will explain it either.

    I don’t think the Dems want any entitlement reforms. So I don’t share your belief in that. Obama isn’t even in town to negotiate he’s running around the country blathering on in front of the uninformed and compliant media who ask no real questions.

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  9. James Raider says: 9

    @Skookum: #1,

    Statist-Democrats and Statist-Republicans are convinced they can control this once most powerful and dynamic economy.

    As I watched the above linked discussion John Mauldin had with those two insiders, I stopped the video and replayed that portion at minute 37:00, . . . in disbelief.

    I really couldn’t believe what I was seeing and hearing, and was rather surprised that Mauldin didn’t react. I check-in on his writing with some regularity since his neutrality provides him more open doors and access than usual. Still, he didn’t flinch.

    You can tell much from the interview of the character and demeanour of Lehman and Krone.

    Krone very much comes across as a typical self-righteous, sanctimonious liberal, now even more irritating than ever after the recent elections. He is the epitome of what now controls Washington, and of the mentality that is rushing to destroy what took 200 years to build.

    Lehman – what the hell can you say about someone who represents no guts, no glory, pandering of Republican insiders refusing to deal with the reality of the coming $70+ trillion real fiscal cliff, never mind the current $16+ trillion debt burden, and $1.3 trillion running deficit.

    You’re right, the “plastic sack” metaphor is about right.

    ReplyReply
  10. @Nan G: #2,
    This kind of “economy engineering” from Washington is what created this disaster in the first place. Taxpayer money should not be used to bail-out either banks or under-water borrowers.

    ReplyReply
  11. @Hard Right: #3,

    they can gain further political advantage and blame the GOP for what the dems have done

    That is one of the bigger challenges for the conservatives – getting ahead of the message. Obama’s handlers are very adept at providing his teleprompter the few sound-bites which he repeats ad nauseam, but which get willfully accepted by the MSM and believed by the 51%.

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  12. Hard Right says: 12

    @Richard Wheeler:

    We both know it’s what the dems want, but facing reality was never your strong suite. You also have no place lecturing anyone about fantasy. You think kennedy was a decent upright man who didn’t steal an election (historical fact). You are truly deluded. That’s ok, when the economy goes south again thanks to the policies of those like you, you too will suffer.

    James Raider, the left controlls 98% of the media. All they have to do is continue repeating the same lie often enough and people accept it as the truth. The last election was a good example of that.

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  13. Greg says: 13

    @Mully, #30:

    I don’t think the Dems want any entitlement reforms.

    Has no one noticed? In the context of the current fiscal cliff negotiations, republicans have yet to state specifically what entitlement reforms they would consider acceptable. They certainly haven’t been shy about discussing spending cuts over the past 2 years. The entire topic has now moved to center stage. There are compelling reasons to take serious action. Maybe the republicans should make some serious proposals.

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  14. Richard Wheeler says: 14

    James Raider see #2 first sentence

    BTW My REPUBLICAN Congressman assisted me in securing a modification on my home loan which included a principle reduction and I rewarded him with my vote.Ain’t Democracy great.

    ReplyReply
  15. @Mully: #5,

    And the solution is higher taxes, which won’t make a dent in our deficit

    It is continually amazing that so many of the middle class don’t understand they are being lied to. Their own taxes are rising, and will continue to rise, regardless what Obama pretends otherwise.

    They seem convinced by the droning hum of “tax the rich.” That will take their eyes off the reality that their real dollar earned is shrinking in what it buys them. Their earnings per hour of work will buy them less food to feed their themselves and their families. They are willfully taking their eyes off the ball.

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  16. Hard Right says: 16

    @Greg:

    1) the dems have not presented a budget from the Senate for years
    2) The GOP knows if they make the first move the left/msm will use it against them.
    3) leftists like greg and rich are flaming hypocrites.

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  17. Greg says: 17

    @Hard Right, #16:

    2) The GOP knows if they make the first move the left/msm will use it against them.

    They’re supposed to be one-half of a public discussion. They’ve come to trade horses but brought no horse? If the best they can do is stand there frozen like a deer in the headlights, maybe they really are worse than useless.

    Ideas were put forward by Obama’s debt commission. Republicans should choose a few items from that to get behind. That way they could point out that the ideas came from an expert bipartisan committee that the President himself set up. This would make it very difficult to use the proposals politically against the GOP.

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  18. @Richard Wheeler: #14,

    What? Vote Buying occurs? Wow, what a concept.

    ReplyReply
  19. @Hard Right: #16,

    Forming and Presenting a BUDGET is way above Obama handlers’ pay-grade. They have an excuse called “ignorance of how America works.”

    ReplyReply
  20. James Raider
    OBAMA and the DEMOCRATS would like so much for the REPUBLICANS to give them a name
    of those entitlements to cut expanses, they are trying so hard to bring them to articulate who must go
    who must be eliminate,
    are they underestimating the REPUBLICAN? now because they won, they are more arrogant then before,
    and they are in bed with the UNION’S BOSSES, SO therefor they don’t have the guts to come out front and name some of their unionize AGENCIES, which they would need to eliminate many with their sub AGENCY,
    they are corner and want as usual to have the REPUBLICANS spit their names, and get the naked HIV AGENCIES COMING BACK TO THE SIDE OF THEIR OPPONENT,
    that game is so evident to figure, and OBAMA take the PEOPLE FOR FOOLS, well they are use to .

    ReplyReply
  21. Mully says: 21

    @Greg: Actually I think a fellow named Paul Ryan did that awhile back. Perhaps I am mistaken.
    Do you actually think if the Obama came to the table with entitlement reform the Repubs would walk away?

    Care to elaborate on Obama’s specific plans for reform? Where might I go see them? Don’t recall much from him supporting Simpson Bowles. Never a campaign stop or appearance discussing his support for it. Nor using any of his political capital to get behind it. Perhaps he will be working on them during his upcoming 17 day vacation in Hawaii.

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  22. Greg says: 22

    @Mully, #21:

    Actually I think a fellow named Paul Ryan did that awhile back.

    What Mr. Ryan forwarded was a highly partisan budget proposal, which included so many controversial reductions and spending increases that it obviously isn’t going anywhere. What we’re talking about here are the negotiations surrounding the fiscal cliff issue, which requires prompt and specific action.

    It seems to me that the GOP’s political will to protect high end tax cuts is failing. They simply don’t have enough public support to continue. They’re still in a strong position to trade that concession for something of genuine conservative interest, however. Everyone understands that spending cuts are necessary. I don’t know why they aren’t taking advantage of the moment and making some specific proposals.

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  23. @ilovebeeswarzone: #20,

    OBAMA and the DEMOCRATS would like so much for the REPUBLICANS to give them a name of those entitlements to cut expanses,

    Yes, this has now become a game of ‘Who blinks first.’ :-(

    ReplyReply
  24. @Greg: #22,

    Everyone understands that spending cuts are necessary.

    Really?

    Check-out the above linked video, then re-address your point.

    Do YOU think that spending cuts are necessary?

    ReplyReply
  25. Wm T Sherman says: 25

    Let it burn.

    ReplyReply
  26. Skookum says: 26

    Everyone seems to be missing the Progressive premise of Statism. We are accepting the demise of the free market, limited government, and arguing over how Statism should be implemented by Obama America’s Caesar. How do you like forfeiting your 401Ks to Obama’s concept of Wealth Redistribution. We are already willing to concede not only our wealth, but our Liberty as well. Winning an election is an opportunity to govern and lead not ignore the Constitution and take the wealth of some to give to others.

    ReplyReply
  27. @Wm T Sherman: #25,

    Let it burn.

    THAT is looking more and more like the modus operandi bringing in the Christmas Season. Only, the Republicans better get ahead of the Obama teleprompter message if they’re prepared to allow bringing in the New Year with no budget.

    And still, it’s insane that Congress, including the Republicans, is preparing to advance without spending cuts. Giving-in to Obama is no solution.

    ReplyReply
  28. Dc says: 28

    I find it odd…afaik…the “last” cliff we went off that ruined our credit rating…was an argument between RNC (reduce spending) and DNC (more revenue). In order to force each other to the table..they came up with this POS bill that Obama signed…where the democrats put in huge increases in taxes and the RNC put in huge cuts in defense, etc…such that neither side would be willing to let the other actually take place.

    NOW…that we are here, Obama has artfully reframed the argument that is’ the RNC who wants to raise your taxes. No it’s not. That was YOUR idea. That was what democrats wanted and put in there. RNC wanted to keep lower rates and stop spending.

    So, now Obama is blaming republicans for what “he” wanted put in that bill. Hahahaha. Nobody even blinks. Like magic. He waves his hand, everybody goes stupid.

    The other meme coming out of the WH is….we had higher rates under Clinton and it didn’t destroy the economy…we actually had surpluses! Nobody’s looked under that rug? They want to return to the higher corporate, etc..taxes during Clinton…but NOT return to the levels of spending from Clinton years. They want to continue with todays level of spending…but “put something on it” by returning to tax rates from Clinton years.

    Beyond that, the only reason Clinton ran a surplus was because they included social security payments/money in the figures. *(which congress appropriated and spent for other things). If you take that out…he actually had deficits…(although NOTHING compared with today).

    This president is something else. He can lie to your face and nobody even questions him. And when they do…you end up in a media meat grinder for being racists or trying to cause a distraction, or for disrupting progress, etc. Piece of work.

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  29. @Skookum: #26,

    We are accepting the demise of the free market, limited government, and arguing over how Statism should be implemented by Obama America’s Caesar.

    Absobloodylutely! That is exactly what that video piece delivers in incontrovertible evidence. Both sides are negotiating for the same thing – oblivion. The only question appearing left to be discussed is, “how much can the throttle be depressed toward that objective?”

    Regardless what fancy words are used by ‘pretend conservatives’ like Lehman, there is an acceptance of growing STATISM and the overreach of the State.

    Our economy and our broader society is already experiencing too much government intervention, regulation or influence. America is now well down the road of forced wealth equality, and increasing momentum toward Constitutional abuse, now that 51% seem to have misunderstood reality.

    The Founders did their best to establish a document which would guide the Nation along a middle road between the extremes of no government and too much government. That desire appears to have been ignored for too long.

    This trend is rooted in Insecurity.

    ReplyReply
  30. Greg says: 30

    @James Raider, #24:

    Do YOU think that spending cuts are necessary?

    Absolutely. Without serious steps to return to a balanced budget, the value of the dollar will rapidly decline and eventually approach worthlessness. I don’t believe it’s possible to achieve balance without both revenue increases and spending cuts. Everyone will have to take a hit.

    Better now than later. The longer we wait, the worse it will be.

    ReplyReply
  31. retire05 says: 31

    @Greg:

    If you look at the Bush tax rates, you would see that it was the lowest income levels that got the biggest tax cut, 5%. The higher income levels got a 4.5% tax cut. Also, the standard deduction, that most lower income families take, was increased under Bush, as well as the deduction for individuals (parents and kids). Those lower rates helped families with young (under 18) kids the most.

    Yet, you continue blathering about how Republicans simply want to protect the lower tax rates for the “rich.”
    So why don’t you tell us what YOU consider “rich?”

    What we need is a flat tax rate. No deductions. NONE. That way, everybody, according to Obama, would have skin in the game. But as it stands now, 47% of all tax filers pay absolutely NO federal income tax, and some even consider April 15th as a pay day, since they get more money back from the IRS than they paid in due to the EITC. How is that fair?

    Obama is not concerned about reining in the obscene spending he has been doing for the last four years. I truely thinks he has subscribed to Cloward and Piven’s designe of destroying this nation in order to be able to rebuild it in the Socialist mode (total transformation). And if he is so interested in trying to avoid the fiscal cliff, why is he on a propaganda tour and not in D.C. trying to work things out?

    ReplyReply
  32. retire05 says: 32

    @Greg:

    Here’s the deal I would offer the Dems: “You say you want to return to the Clinton tax rates. Fine. We agree, but only if we return to the Clinton budget, which you will have to pass before we agree to the Clinton tax rates. We also want to eliminate all the additional positions (the Czars) that Obama has created, and anything that was not in the Clinton budget is going to be eliminated.”

    Yep, that would shut the Dems up fast as they are so damn dishonest and all they really want is bigger and bigger government.

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  33. Skook says: 33

    We are accepting the demise of the free market, limited government, and arguing over how Statism should be implemented by Obama America’s Caesar.

    This sentence should read: We are accepting the demise of the Free Market and limited government to argue over how Statism should be implemented by America’s Caesar, Obama. I think that is a little better.

    ReplyReply
  34. Greg says: 34

    @retire05, #31:

    If you look at the Bush tax rates, you would see that it was the lowest income levels that got the biggest tax cut, 5%. The higher income levels got a 4.5% tax cut.

    Of course, a 5 percent cut to taxable income of $20,000 is a somewhat different proposition than a 4.5 percent cut to $20,000,000.

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  35. Izzeus says: 35

    I don’t see anything new in imputing income to loan forgiveness. Perhaps it’s inappropriate–we could discuss that separately–but it isn’t new. The government has previously taxed forgiven loans. It’s also imputed phantom income to granted but unexercised options that wound up under-water by the end of the year. Our government is very hungry and needs money.

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  36. retire05 says: 36

    @Greg:

    That’s what I hate about you progressives, Greggie; you can never give a direct point but have to spin your response to get the desired outcome.

    What difference does it make if both groups, the lower income, and the higher income, both pay the same rate. The higher income still pays more in taxes, and that is what you want, right, to punish the productive and ambitious and reward the slacker?

    Oh, and just as a point; the single worker who only earns $20K/yr would only be paying 10% in taxes on less than $10,000.00 A married couple with an income of $20,000 would not only not pay ANY taxes, they would get more back from the IRS than they paid in.

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  37. retire05 says: 37

    @Richard Wheeler:

    So you managed to get a government official to strong arm a lending agency to reduce the amount of principal you owed on your home mortgage and you’re proud of that? Yep, you’re the weasel I though you were. You see, Rich, most people believe that when they sign on the dotted line, they are giving their word to pay as agreed, not beg some sleazy Congressman to strong arm the bank in their behalf later on.

    I hope that action burned your credit rating for the rest of eternity.

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  38. Greg says: 38

    @retire05, #36:

    What difference does it make if both groups, the lower income, and the higher income, both pay the same rate.

    With the same 5 percent tax cut, a person having taxable income of $20,000 would see a reduction of $1,000, while a person having taxable income of $20,000,000 would see a reduction of $1,000,000. The person with the higher income gets a 1,000 times greater reduction. The difference it would make over a single year is $999,000.

    Fair? I guess it all depends on how you define fairness.

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  39. Richard Wheeler says: 39

    Retire05 Not only was the principle reduced by $100,ooo+, the interest rate was lowered to the current market of 3.5%. My Conservative Congressman Ken Calvert merely made me aware, through a mailing, that Wells Fargo was making this available if I qualified with appropriate verifiable income and had no mortgage lates.
    My Fico score has improved from 690 to 712. Thanks for asking.

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  40. Nan G says: 40

    Mitch McConnell busted out laughing out loud after Obama’s mouthpiece, Timmy Geithner ”outlined” Obama’s fiscal-cliff-avoidance plan.
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/mcconnell-burst-laughter-geithner-outlined-obamas-plan_664210.html
    Why?
    Because even the cuts (in rate of growth) Obama had listed only a couple days ago had disappeared but no specific cuts were anywhere to be seen!
    Obama had talked of possible curbs on the explosive growth of food stamps and Social Security disability payments only 3 days after his re-election, but now all that is off the table!

    Timmy, however, claimed ”the rich” can be taxed for an extra $1.6 trillion.
    But no plan Obama had put forward gets more than $846 billion in 10 years from the hikes Obama (et al) admit to.
    And that’s calling everyone earning over $200,000/year ”rich!”
    (And the assumption underlying this number is that no rich person adjusts his lifestyle, income, accounts in any way to lower his tax burden. But see the UK.)

    Ending the protection from calling underwater bailouts from banks ”taxable income” is going to happen in 2013.
    Unless they stop it.

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  41. retire05 says: 41

    @Greg:

    Answer this, Greggie:

    You have two men, both plumbers, who work for the same company at $35/hr. Both are married, both have two children. We shall call them Bob and Jim.

    Bob works his forty hours a week, turning down overtime, for an income of $72,800/yr. He takes the standard deductions for an AGI of $47,400. He pays tax on his AGI at 15% or $7,110.00.

    Jim works his forty hours, but also works ten hours a week overtime at time and a half. So his earnings of base pay is increased by $27,300, giving him an income of $100,100. He takes the same standard deductions giving him an AGI of $74,700 and he is taxed at the 25% rate or $$18,675.00 in taxes.

    Do you think the guy who worked longer hours, wanting to add that additional income to benefit his family, should be taxed at a rate that is 10% higher than the guy who turned down the extra income by refusing overtime? Are you supportive of punishing Jim because he worked harder?

    Progressive taxation (a Marxist policy) only punishes those who work harder, and longer hours. Consequently, the federal government discourages working hard, and encourages slackers.

    And try to answer my questions without adding your insanely progressive b/s like “Well, Jim earned more so he should pay higher rate.” Now, tell me what you consider rich. Or are you going to do like you always do and try to dodge the questions?

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  42. Richard Wheeler says: 42

    Retire o5 When I called to thank Congressman Calvert for the heads up, he laughingly responded.
    “Glad to help. Would hate to think you might have to move to Texas” I’m not kidding.

    Semper Fi Go Irish

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  43. @Greg: #30,

    I don’t believe it’s possible to achieve balance without both revenue increases (read ‘Tax The Rich’) and spending cuts. Everyone will have to take a hit.

    These 2 sentences, which are repeated from the progressive talking points, collectively form a declaration of your views. And yet, this assertion doesn’t make any sense. These sentences present mutually exclusive proclamations. Just pointing that out. You don’t have to explain.

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  44. Nan G says: 44

    @Richard Wheeler: Thank Obama for the change about to come.
    Maybe you won’t be affected, but others will.

    ReplyReply
  45. @Hard Right: #12,

    the left controlls 98% of the media. All they have to do is continue repeating the same lie often enough and people accept it as the truth. The last election was a good example of that.

    And Obama is still on the stump lying through his teleprompter, and getting his talking point repeated, even here on FA as per comments above. It got him elected, so why not continue?

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  46. retire05 says: 46

    @Richard Wheeler:

    Calvert’s not the only one glad to see you stay in California with its 10+% unemployment, it’s over regulations that drove up housing prices that have now cratered and it’s lousy schools.

    Doesn’t eliminate the fact that you gave your word (pledged your honor, so to speak) and then reniged on your mortgage, not having a problem with the lending agency, that trusted you in the first place, taking a hit just because you couldn’t pay your financial commitments. A weasel you are and a weasel you will remain.

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  47. Richard Wheeler says: 47

    Retireo5 Please learn to spell.It might lend some credibility to your rantings. Thanks.

    ReplyReply
  48. @Richard Wheeler: #39,
    Your phraseology suggests a certain amount of pride in the events of this anecdote.

    Why would such an exploitation of the taxpayer and whatever institution incurred a cost, bring you this degree of delight and sense of achievement?

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  49. Richard Wheeler says: 49

    James Raider I’m sure you understand the terms of my loan with Wells Fargo were mutually agreed upon.I needed to qualify for a new loan that was proposed by Wells Fargo. They were not the original lender(World Savings), and they were happy we could reach an agreement.
    Thanks for your inquiry.

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  50. Richard Wheeler
    you ask me about CHICKEN LITTLE,
    HERE IT IS;
    SOCIALIST GAINED CONTROL OF BOTH HOUSES JANUARY 2007
    using standard mo…tell a lie long enough and loud enough till you sway public opinion,
    “BUSH LIED…MEN DIED THE WAR IS LOST IN IRAK”,
    OBAMA TOOK OFFICE 2 YEARS AFTER DEMOCRATS TOOK CONTROL OF BOTH HOUSES OF CONGRESS on JANUARY 3 2007
    the finances melt down happened in september 2008 in the housing and banking sectors of the economy
    which BARNEY FRANK AND CHRIS DOD CHAIRED FROM JANUARY 3 2007
    BARNEY FRANK CALLED GOP CHICKEN LITTLE,
    BUSH may have been in the car in 2007 , 2008 , but LIBERAL DEMOCRATS
    had control of the steering wheel, the gas, and the brakes.
    prior to 2007, BUSH AND REPUBLICANS went before CONGRESS 17 TIMES TO TRY TO REIN IN
    FANNY FREDDY, AND BLOCK EACH TIME,
    that’s when BARNEY FRANK CALL THE GOP CONCERNS “CHICKEN LITTLE,

    ReplyReply

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