Jim Geraghty said that all of Barack Obama’s statements come with an expiration date, and frequent readers of FA know I cite that all the time. Truer words were arguably never written. There is simply no question that Obama is an inherently dishonest man and events prove it time and time again. In a previous post it was shown that Senator Obama would have sought the impeachment of President Obama. This could be called Part II but it’s more than that. It just keeps getting worse.
Our Libyan mission is limited
Obama outlines limited U.S. role in Libya intervention
Obama told Congressional leaders that “he had not authorized troops on the ground or airplanes,” a staffer to one of the Congress members briefed Friday said on condition of anonymity. “He stressed the U.S. is diplomatically supporting the no-fly zone, not the enforcement itself.”
Obama stresses limited role as air strikes start
U.S. forces joined those of four other countries in launching strikes against Libya on Saturday and President Barack Obama insisted U.S. involvement was limited and only in support of an international effort.
Diplomatic only? No airplanes?
Storied B2 bomber launched first salvos in Libya
The world’s most expensive warplane rarely leaves its climate-controlled hangar but when it does, the B2 bomber makes a spectacularly effective start to a war — including during this weekend’s attack on Libya’s air defenses.
Limited?
Obama vows U.S. role in Libya will be limited
Obama’s comments, a day after the U.N. Security Council authorized Great Britain and France to launch airstrikes to protect civilians and enforce a no-fly zone over Libya, signaled a circumscribed U.S. role in the troubled North African nation and came after a meeting with members of Congress, some of whom have voiced reservations about U.S. involvement.
And?
Allies Expand Libya Military Campaign, Debate Command
Allied forces expanded their air campaign over Libya to thwart Muammar Qaddafi’s fighters and enable rebels to regain control of cities, as leaders debated who should be in overall control of the operation.
We’re not after Gaddafi
Mullen: Libyan mission is not designed to remove Gadhafi
President Obama, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, and other U.S. officials have called for an end to the Gadhafi government, but that is not the goal of the coalition mission.
U.S. insists “we’re not hunting Qaddafi”
U.S.: Gaddafi not target of allied military action
Allied military action in Libya is aimed at protecting civilians, not targeting Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi, a senior White House official said on Monday.
That also didn’t last long
Coalition targets Gadhafi compound
A coalition military official confirmed to CNN that the compound was targeted because it contains capabilities to exercise command and control over Libyan forces. The coalition’s goal is to degrade Gadhafi’s military capabilities.
The official, who was not identified because of the sensitivity of the information, insisted that neither Gadhafi nor his residence was the intended target. The leader’s whereabouts were not known.
Gaddafi’s compound was bombed because he was not a target.
Gaddafi’s complex bombed again
Muammar Gaddafi’s Tripoli compound was rocked by blasts for a second night, his southern strongholds targeted and a navy base bombed as international criticism mounted over the air assault on Libya.
We won’t impose
Obama told the BBC
“But, rather what I believe to be universal principles that they can embrace and affirm as part of their national identity, the danger, I think, is when the United States, or any country, thinks that we can simply impose these values on another country with a different history and a different culture.”
In his Cairo speech:
“No system of government can or should be imposed upon one nation by any other.”
Now?
White House aims to ‘install’ democracy in Libya
The White House is shifting toward the more aggressive goal in Libya of ousting President Moammar Gadhafi and “installing a democratic system,” actions that fall outside the United Nations Security Council resolution under which an international coalition is now acting, according to a conversation between President Obama and Turkey’s prime minister.
Gaddafi must go
Then
‘I have stated that it is US policy that Gaddafi needs to go.’
Then (a clear signal the no-fly zone effort is going to fall apart or fail)
President Obama indicated on Tuesday that Muammar Qadhafi may still have an opportunity to “change his approach” and put in place “significant reforms” in the Libyan government.
Now?
White House denies regime change is part of Libya mission
The White House strongly denied Tuesday that regime change is part of its mission in Libya, despite a statement earlier in the day that characterized the goal there as “installing a democratic system.”
Obama administration struggles to define American mission in Libya
The Obama administration scrambled to define the U.S. mission in Libya on Tuesday amid congressional criticism that it has not clearly explained its endgame for the war-torn country.
The White House strongly denied that regime change is part of its mission after a statement earlier in the day characterized the goal there as “installing a democratic system.”
“I will only send you into harm’s way when it is absolutely necessary, and with the strategy, the well-defined goals, the equipment and the support you need to get the job done,”
No boots on the ground
Don’t let it slip your mind that Obama promised us this:
“As I said yesterday, we will not – I repeat – we will not deploy any US troops on the ground,” Obama said.
But I just saw this:
We’ve seen Camp Lejuene marines in Iraq and Afghanistan and now they are joining the fight against Libya. 2200 marines from the 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit, or 26th MEU will take part. Their mission is to help end the violence directed at the Libyan people.
D’oh!
We’ll see if that actually translates into boots on the ground, but given the deception thus far it would not surprise me one bit since it’s quite the task to protect civilians on the ground with bombs from the air.
There is a story underneath all of these reports and that story is the persistent pattern of deceit and dishonesty on the part of Barack Obama. He apparently lied to Congressional leaders as well as the entire country right from the beginning of this operation. And the lies keep coming. It is entirely reasonable to assert that whatever Barack Obama says, it will be false. It is entirely reasonable to assert that one can count on the exact opposite occurring.
You are an idiot if you take him at his word.
Ever.
Can you imagine when he runs again, the amount of video that can be used to show how badly he lied and contradicted himself?
This meathead could never ever run my business, let alone this country for another four years.
Dr J. Saw the headline and knew it had to be your post. Easy.
You’ve been clear you are against this action and believe in hands off Gadhafi.
Just don’t start posting HIS daily civilian casualty reports or his propaganda. Thanks
Semper Fi Marines are ready to go but don’t think you’ll see them on the ground in Libya.
I like Canada’s response. 6 F-18′s and probably our worst pilots from Bagotville, Quebec.
It’s like saying, we’re with you and hopefully our mother in law can help.
I’m not sure I’m partial to the strong title Dr J, but Obama is not made of teflon like B Clinton. His problems seem to stick.
On another note if you have read up on Gulf War 1 history, I would be much more happy to see a solution like Gen Stiner’s approach Gen Stiner was an SF operator who understood unconventional warfare. From memory; his idea consisted of finding opposition forces, providing weapons, resources and support and assainating opposition leaders. As well as uniting otherwise separate tribes into an aggressive fighting force which would have likely stopped sadam in my oppinon.
@rich wheeler: Hey Rich
Firstly, thanks for reading.
Secondly, the absence of any disagreement with the content represents a tacit approval- so thanks again.
This Obama action is grotesque. Had he come to the American people early on I think he could have sold it. He waited too long and this is a penny ante response. As bad as this may end up, thank God it wasn’t a crisis directly affecting the US or we would be totally screwed. He is approaching this as though it was a trap- which it could end up being. But this is not a good time for caution when the primary concern is not American soldiers, but his own political ass.
He’s violated absolutely every one of bullsh*t platitudes in the process of screwing this up.
“Coalition of the unwilling.” You have to love it.
I said right from the beginning that we have no business in a civil war and you really should be congratulating me for adhering to everything Obama said he stood for.
Have a great day!
@Zac: Zac,
I do not back away from that title one micron. It is the truth.
“We’ll see if that actually translates into boots on the ground…”
They’re already there.
“In Libya right now they are doing exactly what we need them to do. They are doing what they are told and right now that’s protecting Libyan people against Qadhafi forces,” said Captain Timothy Patrick, a Marine with the 26th MEU.
http://www.wcti12.com/news/27257042/detail.html
@arb: arb
I did link that but I’m not sure it means that the Marines are on Libya soil as opposed to the Kearsarge.
I took the words “in Libya” to mean “in Libya,” but we shall see. I agree with your overall premise about Obama and his expiration date statements.
Awesome! Another Anti-Obama post at Flopping Aces…meanwhile the Republicans, who own the House, have nothing to say about budget-busting illegal war.
Why not a reader’s post about how the Republican House broke every spending promise they made in November? Nah, that would be intellectually honest and we need more Anti-Obama articles because we don’t post enough!
Part on with the Anti-Obama tirade.
Dr. J. Like I ‘ve said you’ve made clear your position.If and when you appear to support or believe Gadhafi over the POTUS and allied forces I will call you on it.
I’ve also said and believe your PERSONAL hatred of Obama has clouded your judgement.
@rich wheeler: I don’t want the US military put at risk for this at all. Libya is not even remotely a threat to the US.
Barack Obama is a pathetic impostor. He is the wrong Alinskyite for the job.
@Ivan: Are they not trying to cut? And what are the Democrats doing other than blocking everything they’re doing?
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=42440
Geez, that Obama’s got so much class…..
Oh, and here’s another.
Then:
In his meeting with Members of Congress today, sources tell ABC News, President Obama said he expected that the period that the US would be involved in heavy kinetic activity would be “days, not weeks,” after which he said the US would then take more of a supporting role.
Now:
Barack Obama: Libyan air campaign could last
@drjohn:
Give me a list of the PROPOSED government departments which will be cut. Don’t try and BS me with some symbolic $60 billion-out of a $1.7 TRILLON deficit-I want to see something real. I know you’re easily impressed, I’m not fooled though.
Btw, $60 billion out of a $3.8 TRILLION budget comes to….1.5% cut.
Laughable. Truly and breathtakingly laughable. Especially now that we’re in a third war.
@Ivan: Don’t assume for one moment that I’m happy with that. Damned Democrats raised the US budget $1 trillion in 4 years and no one can cut a thing?
AYFKM??
ARB,
The 26th MEU is engaged in airborne strikes on Libya soon to be replaced by 22nd MEU.
The only times they touched the ground in Libya was 1)when they picked up those two downed pilots and 2)when they helped evacuate foreigners.
From the link:
“…..troops from the 26th MEU launched a second round of bombing strikes ….”
“Earlier, elements of the MEU helped evacuate Egyptians leaving the country from the Tunisian border.”
Both CNN and Fox just reported about 6 missile strikes in Tripoli.
@drjohn:
Then stop apologizing for them. Boehner should step down over his incompetence w/r/t the horrific budget debacle. He’s not much different when it comes to irresponsible spending and Pelosi.
He should step down and have a good cry.
@Ivan: Huh?
I’m ALL for letting the government shut down- especially the Executive Branch. And I do think Boehner is a wuss. I want to see the same venom that oozed out of Pelosi. I want to see the same “take no prisoners” attitude. I want to see the same “I won” lack of collegiality I saw in Democrats.
@drjohn:
We’ve got three intransigent bodies when it comes to getting a long term budget passed.
The House had a Republican plan with $100 billion in cuts.
Of that Dick Durban Dem Senator, Ill, said: We learned… that the House Republican budget with $100 billion in cuts was not going to pass the U.S. Senate.
We had a Senate Democrat plan with only $10 billion in cuts.
Of that Dick Durban Dem Senator, Ill, said: We learned at the same time that the Senate Democratic alternative wouldn’t pass either.
We also have Obama, President, Dem.
If Senate Dems get Obama to sign off on a plan (a big IF) there’s no guarantee the House will sign off on it, as it will be a small, tiny cut in the budget.
So, there’s plenty of blame to go around.
And, if men want to cry, it’s OK by me.
We’re heading toward a shutdown because nearly every cut Obama was on board with for the whole year has already been cut in the two continuing resolutions, the 2 week and the 3 week one.
So, Obama might even veto a continuing resolution, if another one makes it to him.
Edited to source Durbin’s quote.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2011/03/16/134602859/sen-durbin-detects-budget-impasses-silver-lining
Obama, like most of the left doesn’t believe in much of anything. Whereas “we” might believe in the gist of Locke’s Second Treatise, and thus have the concept of natural rights and limited government guide our politcal actions, the left and Obama have feelings.
They like the concept of transferring wealth because it makes them feel good. They like opposing war because it makes them feel good. They like intervening on a humanitarian basis because it makes them feel good.
Those with a true belief system tend to stay on a steady course. Those who follow their feeling flit from position to position depending on what tugs at their heart strings at that particular moment.
I really get a laugh from Andrea Kramer at M(eth) S NBC. She was trying to organize ” a ticker tape parade” for the organization of the coalition sponsored by Ear Leader. It was Sarkozy of France that led the way.
Germany now has left the coalition and it is falling apart. What sort of damage contol will she use now?
There’s no denying Obama has taken a rather circuitous route getting to where he is on this, so charges that Obama has been indecisive are par for the course, but how do you arrive at him being a “liar” because his Libyan policy shifted as events on the ground changed dramatically? Obama clearly wanted no part of this, but within his administration there was always a vigorous debate between anti and pro-interventionists. And then two things happened: 1) the rebels started losing badly, and 2) Quadaffi started shelling and bombing his own civilian population. Whether or not you agree with the intervention, you can’t deny how powerfully news of attacks against civilians changed the playing field. So I ask, the idea that the US g0venment shouldn’t refine policy based on new information and/or changing events seems rather simplistic no?
Since you seem to enjoy the 180 degree flip-flop, here’s a much more compelling example. Would this make anyone who believes Newt Gingrich an idiot?
@Tom:
Against civilians? Show me the attacks against the unarmed civilians.
This is a function of the in-the-Obama- sewage-tank liberal press. This was an armed insurrection. That’s why, Tom, there were “battles” ongoing.
The non-stop “refining” means they haven’t the first idea what they’re doing, they have no plan and no goal. Worst of all, Obama’s doing this half-assed because he knows he’s going to have this shoved somewhere soon.
But if you’ll cast an eye to the very opening of my post you’ll see that this entire operation was misrepresented right from the start.
And I have no use for Gingrich.
On the first day of the so called “no fly zone” operation, 124 tomahawk missiles were fired. Of them 122 were American the other 2 were British and we know where those 2 went. Sounds like one hell of a diplomatic involvement to me.
Marines on the ground are only transiting to Iraq or Afghanistan……they are replacing another Marine troop who are returning stateside.
@Tom:
Oh, Tom!
Good for you!
Re:
Remember the ”Bush Lied, People Died,” cry?
I didn’t buy into that and I don’t buy into Obama being a liar in this case, either.
Facts are facts, but when we deal with closed societies, like Iraq, Afghanistan or Libya, not all facts are known.
Still a Chief Executive must make decisions.
He can only base those decisions on the facts he has at hand as well as his philosophy.
IF more facts come out later, he can and sometimes MUST adjust his plans.
What is the old military saying?
No battle plan lasts beyond the first engagement?
Something like that.
Dr J. Do you really believe Gadhafi forces have not attacked unarmed civilians?Lies from a liberal press you say.What are you a cheerleader for this madman?Your hatred for Obama replaced by a trust in Gadhafi? SAD
Exit Questions Do you believe Saddam attacked and terrorized unarmed civilians or were those reports fabricated as well?
Did liberal press make up Lockerbie and Berlin disco bombings?
@drjohn:Well Dr.J I don’t care that much about your title, I just get tired of the name calling. What I do care about is a solution. Now that US is probably on Gaddafis terrorist hit list and you don’t agree we should be there in the first place, what do we do in you opinion Dr j? I agree with you on Obama but its not an easy situation to deal with, even if we had a different president. What do we do Dr J?
The “comedy” gets better by the hour. The Whitehouse says this is not a war. The Norwegians are pulling their naval ships back. This non war has 162 cruise missile strikes, not aimed at Kdaffy. There are air strikes and ineffective AAA counterfire. Now Yemen is brewing into another non war. Norway and others are complaining of the non leadership of this non war. The UN is dithering on leadership as usual.
In Washington today, Jamie Gorelick may be a nominee for FBI Director. I can’t make this stuff up!
@rich wheeler: Rich
All I asked was for you to present the evidence for your assertion. We could just sit here and operate on a belief system but then I’d be biased toward my own.
@Zac: Now Zac?
If I were Obama, I’d go to the American public and make the case for the need for UN presence in Libya to prevent a genocide. Then I’d go to the UN and sell the same. Then I’d pressure France and England to supply the troops to do it since they were so gung ho on doing this.
Then I’d pressure the Arab League to pay for it all.
Then again, I never would have gotten into this in the first place. I think Obama could sell this easily since half the country is stupid enough to do whatever he wants without so much as a thought.
@oil guy from alberta:
Oh for the love of God tell me that’s a joke.
While Obama lies quite a bit, I think his level of incompetence leads to more waffling and flip-flopping on issues.
So often Obama will say something I agree with….then he will flip to another policy and act on that.
Other times Obama said, if you vote for me X,Y & Z will all happen that I disagree with. (Closing Gitmo, for example)
Then, when the reality of the world hits him between the eyes, Obama does the right thing.
(Keeping Gitmo open, for example.)
Gaddafi’s compound struck for the fifth time while not being a target.
Come on, guys. We’re being led by a pathological liar.
Dr. J. So sorry your new best friend Col. G’s compound is being rattled.Both BHO and HRC say regime change is AMERICAN policy. “With extreme predjudice” All the better.
Is that your “mission accomplished” banner, rich?
BTW, I know you’ve said before that once troops were committed, you support the CiC. But were you a supporter of Iraq and Afghanistan?
@rich wheeler: Who should Obama kill after Gaddafi without permission of Congress in an undeclared war?
Me? You? Hmmm?
Are you familiar at all with the Constitution? Or do you regard that as a convenience thing?
Don’t throw that Semper Fi thing at me any more because I won’t buy it from you again.
@rich wheeler:
Would you care to link such a claim? Or are we operating on your belief system again?
And as far as BHO is concerned, please be certain to link the exact minute he said it as it changes continuously.
@DrJohn:
Hillary as well as members of the Arab League admit that they are getting calls from Gaddafi’s inner circle to figure out a way to get out safely.
The aim of the missiles is to take out anti-aircraft.
The ”minders” propaganda took CNN reporter to a navy base hit by missiles and claimed it was civilian….well, technically he called the dead, ”our people.”
@rich wheeler: Have you read about how Gen Stiner made plans to avoid an actual war with Saddam Hussein prior to WW1? Or how Regan fought the USSR in Afghanistan? Some of my relatives are still upset about that from what I hear. I know it was on short notice to employ such a technique but why have a full scale war when you could break your enemys spirit without declaring “war” until its necessary? We stand to gain a few allies in the process.
I’m not sure your approach would work Dr J, Americans seem to be the only ones who the Obama can hand his dirty laundry to. The UN and the Arab League seem to be immune to the Obama charm. That being said you came up with a better plan then I’ve heard from the WH Dr J.
DR J. I would certainly hope you before me. Come out of your bunker, open your eyes ,and watch fair and balanced Fox. We know they’re not in BHO’S tank. Are they?
OORAH U.S. Marines were on ground to rescue downed pilots.
Today Obama bought into Orwell’s language:
President Obama defended his Nobel Peace Prize on Tuesday, saying that Americans “don’t see any contradiction” in him ordering an attack on Libya to make sure “people aren’t butchered because of a dictator who wants to cling to power.
I am accustomed to this contradiction of being both a commander-in-chief but also someone who aspires to peace.”
Politico
@rich wheeler: So you are not familiar with the Constitution.
OK.
As for the rescue, I am grateful for its success.
Rich, do you think the President should be able to kill any leader of a nation as long as we don’t like him?
@Nan G:
When you are for everything you are for nothing.
Dr. J. No I don’t, but both Ronald Reagan and Barack Obama have gone after Col.K and I’m good to go on this miscreant.
Mata I believe “W”s swaggering shipboard “mission accomplished” marked the beginning of his sharp descent in popularity.His actions during Katrina completed it.
I support American troops wherever they are sent by the CIC. I don’t believe an up or down vote should be required but I do believe both Congress and more importantly the American people should be kept fully informed.I’ll be suprised if BHO doesn’t speak directly to us in the next few days.
drj, I can’t speak for Hillary, but the Zero was back into “regime change” form during his Latin trip just a couple of days ago.
Sounds pretty definite to me. But then, that was more than a few minutes ago….. LOL
@DrJohn:
Interesting that on your own post about flip-floppers being liars you’d push your new “Blood-thirsty Obama wants to kill Gaddafi” trope. Perhaps you forgot your post of March 6th, where you laid your case for the close relationship between Obama and Gaddafi driving US policy:
Well I guess that post explains why the US didn’t take part in the intervention in Libya. Oh, wait a second….
So what’s the story, Dr. John? Are you a liar because you’ve flopped from writing about how Obama takes his marching orders from Gadaffi to writing about how Obama wants to murder Gaddafi? Or would you prefe to just come clean and admit that your post of March 6th was complete bunk without a shred of evidence? Or should we just conclude that you reflexively write against Obama regardless of the circumstances and unaware of your own contradictions?
I wonder, hypothetically, if Obama had not supported an intervention in Libya, what post you’d be writing now? Would it be one in praise of Obama for prudently keeping the US out of Libya, since we have “no business in a civil war?” Just kidding.
Only with you and your fellow lib/progs, rich wheeler. We conservatives had our disappointment in his domestic spending policies, not his foreign policy.
And yes, Mr. Face Time will be addressing us. That’s news? I’ve never seen a guy babble so much and say so little…. He’s quite tiresome. Even my Mother, a registered Dem, turns him off and can’t listen to him. But yep… a few days go by, polls come out, his finger comes out of his posterior and waggles in the wind for the public opinion… yep. He’s due. Unfashionably late as usual.
“It is entirely reasonable to assert that whatever Barack Obama says, it will be false.”
Obama and the other democrats know that they can say anything and the propaganda media will go along with it. Even when they slip up and tell the truth like Nancy Peloci´s, ¨We have to pass the bill so you can see what is in it,¨ the propaganda media will either ignore it or try to defend it. The great thing about being a democrat is that you never have to remember what you have said.
@MataHarley:
Except they’ve told us over and over that the point of this effort is not regime change, as I have pointed out. So this is about regime change except that it is not about regime change.
The usual Obama crap.
And excuse me- then you libbies all supported Bush in Iraq, right? Regime change was the OFFICIAL US policy, courtesy of Bill Clinton and the Democrats.
@Tom:
I think it’s the reason we were so late to the party and that Hillary showed that she has more testosterone than Barry. It was ego.
I don’t think we intervene in a civil war- not there, not in Tunisia, not in Saudi. Obama did nothing in Iran. What will we do in the rest of those countries experiencing unrest? Will we bomb them all?
Next stop- Syria?
How about it, guys? Do we go in there next? How many were killed in Iran without our intervening?
And please let me remind you:
This is the thing- the sheer hypocrisy of Obama and you lefties. You voted for this guy and these were his promises. You’re getting McCain and you applaud like decerebrate zombies. If you think this sort of action is righteous then why did you vote for the guy who said he specifically he would not do it?
Dr. John,
His actions and words stand on their own. Personally, I think your headline was too soft. Not only can one not believe a word he says, but we are now in a state where we must fear for the future of our country as we know it. The man is single handedly forcing us into third world Marxist/Socialist standing and what ever one wants to think, it is proven by his words, actions and his ideology. As always in is the case in the past, outright lies are just part of the agenda.
I refer as I did in an earlier post to Alan Caruba’s great post, “Obama, Red As It Gets” at Warning Signs: http://factsnotfantasy.blogspot.com
This isn’t just about outright hypocrisy and lies anymore (in fact we should never have gotten to this juncture). It’s not just about Libya or Iraq or for that matter the Ant-Semite leanings of the man! It’s about the very survival of our country, the “Great Experiment” as I believe Ben Franklin called it (Might be wrong on Franklin, but I don’t think so). We are on a precipice as a nation. We are bankrupt. We have no leadership (this man is a follower). And worse of all, we have politicians on both sides with their heads in the sand ignoring the obvious (I’m being nice here for a change). Believe him? Fat chance of that! However, it must be noted. The fault lies with the citizenry of this country, those who choose to believe the lies and think they get a free ride. citizenship is work and unfortunately as in past Socialist dictatorship experiments, the people want the lie and refuse to acknowledge the truth until it’s all taken away from them. And let’s not let the MSM off the hook. After all, they are the propaganda arm for Comrade Obama! Seeing it appears we really don’t have a free press anymore on the whole, there is no other watchdog other than the bloggers and the very few news sources that have the balls to stand up to the lies and tyranny that is coming form this administration. Sadly, our President cannot and must not be believed. However, the same goes for the majority of the elected scum in D.C. Cutting the head off the snake (defeating Obama for those who are to ideologically challenged to understand the term) in this case probably isn’t enough. The cancer is deep rooted into D.C. now and for that matter society.
JOETOTE It was Thomas Jefferson who called America ‘”The Great Experiment.”
If that’s being nice I’d hate to see you upset.lol
Tom#50 Pointing out Dr.J. has been known to flip flop.Priceless
Mata#49 Thanks for updating Dr.J. on BHO’s call for regime change in Libya.
rich wheeler,
Thanks for the clarification. I knew it was one of them, but still in my morning fog. And yes, that was nice for me as I’m usually always upset these days. LOL!
So far has this endeavor been well thought out or communicated? No. Will the military accomplish its mission whatever that is? Yes, and will do so admirably. Is Qaddafi a bigger threat than Hussein was? Not even close. Are people who support this mission on humanitarian grounds or whatever but did not support Iraq guilty of hypocrisy? Yes. Should we be involved in his civil war? No.
Here is one aspect of this that seems not to be addressed. Pan Am Flight 103. 190 Americans were killed. He let the bomber back into his country. His former Justice Minister says he has proof Qaddafi was behind it. It could be B.S. just to prop himself up. It’s kind of hard not to believe that Qaddafi either ordered or sponsored the attack. If we have evidence to that effect, he needs to die. Because it happened 23 years ago is of no consequence. It would be like saying we shouldn’t kill OBL because 9/11 was 10 years ago. It will send a message that if you kill Americans you’ll be looking over your shoulder the rest of your life and eventually you’ll pay the price. As for worrying about assassinations of foreign leaders, we have tried it before. Qaddafi is in charge of Lybia and in command of his forces. Technically everywhere he goes is a command center. If we target his command center and he happens to be there when a cruise missile or a bomb hits it, sucks to be him. If we send in Delta Force to capture him to stand trial and in an ensuing gun battle he happens to get in the way of a bunch of 5.56 rounds, sucks to be him. Bottom line, if he is any way, shape, or form connected to Pan Am Flight 103 he needs to die. No exile. No trial.
@rich wheeler:
Rich
I think either case can be made, which proves my point.
@Tom: Tom said:
What drjohn wrote:
Farrakhan did have a snit over this, BTW, as though he’d been betrayed. It could be argued that Obama threw Farrakhan under the bus, as Obama is wont to do.
As you called me a liar, could you please so kind as to show me where I wrote that Obama takes his orders from Gaddafi?
Even Obama’s own Administration has a hard time defending or even explaining Obama’s actions RE: Libya.
Just yesterday I heard someone call it a ”kinetic military action” (deputy national security adviser Ben Rhodes).
LOL!
Really?
What does it mean for 2012?
There are new piles of liberals who naturally voted for Obama in 2008 but who say Obama is NOT the guy they thought he was.
Will they hold their noses and vote Obama again?
Or will they put up a credible challenger to Obama?
Then there are all those independents who put Obama over the top in 2008.
They look at this and see, added to so much else, that Obama is in way over his head.
And Obama does NOT seem to be doing much learning while on the job, either!
He’d rather play.
Will they vote for Obama again?
One other point: Obama pinned so much on our economy improving.
But all measures of the economy show a double-dip recession in the works.
He claims millions of saved and created jobs, while we see none of it.
He claims going green will save us.
But all we see is higher gas and food prices from his choke hold on fossil fuels.
He might be able to turn one thing around by 2012, but one thing will not be enough.
So, he will most likely resort to lies.
Like the lies he told about ObamaCare.
The lies he told about jobs.
Don’t let his October Surprise fool you.
@DrJohn:
Not true. I merely asked that if you apply the same criteria you apply to Obama to yourself whether that would make you a liar.
Your entire post of March 6th is clearly implying that Obama is beholden to Wright and Farrakhan and that they in turn are beholden to Gadaffi. And this is all provided as a hypothetical reason for Obama’s at-the-time inaction in Libya. The dots aren’t too hard to connect. Did you advance the theory that Gadaffi’s referencing of Obama as a ‘son’ was proof of a mutual connection? Yes, you did. Did you specifically say “Obama takes his marching orders from Gadaffi”? No, you did not. I guess you could say I inferred it. If you’re willing to stick to hard facts regarding Obama and not just throw out theories based on inferences, I’d be happy to apply to same criteria to you.
Do you think a lot of liberals don’t have legitimate doubts about Obama’s involvement in this war?
@Tom:
Uh, Tom, let’s look at that again.
You did not infer that I wrote “about how Obama takes his marching orders from Gaddafi.” You outright said it and then you used the straw man you created to call me a liar.
So I ask you again- please show me where I said what you said I said.
@Tom: NOw let’s examine this:
Both Skookum and I have put up posts about the relations between Gaddafi and Wright and Farrakhan.
Wright himself said “When [Obama's] enemies find out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli to visit [Gadhafi] with Farrakhan, a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell,”
Farrakhan got a $5 million interest free loan.
Now you would argue that these things do not constitute influence?
Obama was a member of Wright’s church for 20 years and steeped himself in Wright’s hate, first denying that he heard any of it (OMG, another lie!) and then disavowing it only after he was stuck.
Now you would argue that’s not influence?
Our next “Kinetic Military Action” target: Syria!
I missed out on this very interesting post, to my regret. Yup, Dr. John, Hotair, Hannity, and Mark Levin have already debunked the Gorelick FBI Director Fiasco. This corrupt insider sycophant should be in front of a grand jury.
On Levin’s show last night, Rumsfeld explained the situation. You don’t build a gong show and go to the party. You plan to see what’s needed and build your coalition. In the first Gulf War, Schwartzkopf had De billiers and Prince Saud in on the planning. Bush senior, Powell and the evil Dick Cheney built the coalition.
The precedent, this time says, “Blame It On Rio”.
Dr John Evidence sir,documentation,corroborating links that Obama is Kadhafi’s son; hour and minute of conception.The Bedouin harlots name and measurements. EXACT lines of seduction the Col. employed.Name and location of the tent in whick baby Barack was born.THE TRUTH GOOD DR.
@rich wheeler:
That’s the funniest thing since the Sunday Funnies here.
Thanks for the laugh.
@rich wheeler: Why would you have me provide that information?
@Nan G: It is funny, Nan. Everyone knows he was born in Kenya.
Dr. J. Kenya ofcourse his place of birth. Muslim his religion.Communist his Party.The truth will out Herr Dr. if you continue your tireless search.How many civilians did the coalition kill today according to your buddy Col. G.?
Exit question Did you ever live in Brazil?
@rich wheeler:
@rich wheeler: Rich
I hope you’re right but I have grave doubts.
Dr John If you have no response to my #70 please give corroborating evidence for your assertion in #73. Thanks RW
@rich wheeler:
What is your point?
@rich wheeler: Cheese whiz, Rich, aren’t you going to tell everyone why you’re demanding this information? Come on, get ‘er done before the post falls off the front page!
Dr. J. In post #73 you said “Everyone KNOWS he was born in Kenya.” A poor attempt at levity or something you personally believe?
@rich wheeler: That was levity, Rich. I thought you would get it since it followed Nan’s comment of the frivolities.
Now please tell us why you want to know which Gaddafi harlot in Libya bore Obama.
#70 Levity as well good Dr. Nice we can agree BHO a Democrat, a Christian and an American citizen born in the great state of Hawaii.
@Tom:
Stay on subject. We are discussing the prevarications of Obama, not Gingrich (who cares a hoot about Gingrich anyway? He’s a hack that will never get the Republican nomination. It’s like discussing what Tom Daschel had to say.) When someone claims “We are going to do ‘A’ and not do ‘B’” and then does ‘B’, well maybe where you come from it’s a ‘change in position’, but where I come from that’s a lie.
“I don’t care, Obama is awesome”
A simulated water cooler conversation with an Obama supporter. Any similarities to leftists near you, especially religious progressives, are intentional and deliberate:
NanG It’s Sun. morning and I’m heading to Church (Methodist). I’d never heard the term “religious progressives” so I googled it. Progressive Christianity
“care for the poor and oppressed and environmental stewardship of the Earth.”
“love one another within the teaching of Jesus Christ.Focus on compassion,justice,and mercy”
I can only aspire to such worthy teachings. Thanks Have a blessed day.
NanG Thanks again.
@rich wheeler:
We agree, Rich. Hawaii is a great state.
Dr. J. Just another birther. Why would any here who believe BHO born in Hawaii give credence to your posits?
@rich wheeler:
And what say you to the states that have passed, or will pass, more stringent “proof of birth” citizenship laws in order for a candidate to be placed on the presidential election ballot? Are they “birthers” as well?
@rich wheeler: Rich, I hope you stay with us. You’re just too much fun.
Dr. J. No worries. I’m having a ball.
J.G. States can pass whatever they want.What’s that got to do with whether BHO was born in Hawaii?
Again, as on the Libyan question,I side with Sarah on this issue. She calls it a “distraction.”
I’ll go her one better and say it’s a combination of ignorance,xenophobia and bigotry that drives the birthers.
@rich wheeler:
Hmm. Apparently, anyone who questions Obama’s birth is a “birther”. So will we actually see Obama’s birth certificate this time around? Or will he use his DOJ to sue those states passing the laws, in order to be placed on the ballots by some judge?
I don’t know if he was born in the U.S. or not. I just find it kinda funny that liberals were all over McCain for his birth, demanding to see his credentials, yet when conservatives wish the same for Obama, they are met with ridicule. Why is that? Hypocrisy, anyone? It isn’t bigotry that drives it, nor ignorance, nor xenophobia. It is simply a desire to have the man prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, to everyone, that he was born in the U.S. I can produce my birth certificate and prove my citizenship in mere minutes, and sometimes it’s required, as in the case of a driver’s license. Why can’t he? Do you not ever wonder why he hasn’t just shut everyone up about it, and prove those “birthers” wrong, by providing the proof? Or is he just given a pass by you because you are too busy worshiping him, even as the proof of his hypocrisies and lies are mounting up?
Why don’t you explain to us conservatives here why you really support him. Give us a real discussion instead of your simple one sentence comments that have no substance. We would gladly join in the debate, and you know that some of us would even discuss it rationally with you. Please. Give us your insight on Obama and his greatness. We are waiting.
J.G. I ‘m sure you and I can at some point engage in a rational and reasonbly civil debate.
One has only to read the titles of Dr.J’s posts to realize he has lost any right or reason for sane discourse.
Wouldn’t you agree?
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“We will deny the regime arms, cut off its supply of cash, assist the opposition, and work with other nations to hasten the day when Khadafy leaves power,”
Obama stressed that the coalition’s goal isn’t to remove Gaddafi;
Nothing Obama says is true. Nothing.
@rich wheeler:
No, I wouldn’t agree. Is he not in his right to point out the failings of Obama?
John G. REFER to Herr DR.’S closing comment in #94. I rest my case.Do YOU agree with that statement so simply written?
@rich wheeler:
How does that rest your case? Hasn’t Obama been proven to say one thing and do another over the course of his political career?
You must either agree that nothing Obama says is true, or agree that only some things he says are true, or agree that everything he says is true. Which do you agree with?
JohnG. John, now you’re just being silly. Show me a man who says he’s never uttered a fib and I’ll show you a liar. IMO, Obama gets an A in honesty, higher than most but not perfect. Obviously to say he “lies all the time” is a ridiculous statement.
@rich wheeler:
Good grief. I have documented his continuously changing words about this war and you sit there and drool about his honesty?
This from Drudge:
What a weird world you live in, Rich.
@rich wheeler:
Rich, rich, rich……
Have you ever read the Aesop Fable about ”the boy who cried ‘Wolf?’ ”
The boy made stuff up enough of the time to where no one believed him the one time we know of that he did tell the truth.
The problem with lying isn’t that one does it constantly.
It is that he does it just enough to make you never believe him no matter what.
Obama has been caught in numerous lies since hitting the national stage.
It makes running to check facts after hearing him SOP.
The thread was entitled ”Why you’re an idiot to believe anything Barack Obama says.”
It is true, too.
Everything Obama says must be checked to see if it actually is true.
I can’t believe you don’t realize that.
DR J. To suggest BHO “lies all the time” is pure idiocy.You’re as bad as the Bush bashers. BDS OR ODS both sad maladies.
Drudge? C”mon get a life
@rich wheeler: Aw, Rich, you really have to take your head out of your backside now and then.
The AP
FactCheck.org:
Drudge is only a clearinghouse.
One difference between dogs and liberals is that dogs can actually be embarrassed and feel shame.
NanG. Very familiar with that fable Kid continually lied about a wolf coming after him and people came to save him.When he yalled the truth people didn’t come.Scared the hell out of me.
Good idea to check up on all politicians and salesmen.
Nan It appears you agree Dr.J’s “Obama lies ALL the time” is ,excuse me Herr Dr, a head up one’s derriere statement.
“Lies just enough so you don’t believe anything he says” you’re describing our medicine man.
Dr.J. Thanks for reminding me.It’s time to walk my 2 beautiful Goldens.Truly loving creatures
@rich wheeler:
Rich, it would be nice to have a president whose word we could trust.
Maybe we never will again.
Maybe ”Honest Abe” was a myth.
But Obama is the antithesis of “Honest Abe.”
We literally have to check every utterance out of Obama’s mouth.
We usually find he very carefully parsed his words if not out-and-out lied.
Sure, sometimes he also says things that turn out to be merely uninformed*; that’s not a lie.
But when he leaves out all of the interest on the debt in order to make his budget look OK, he is LYING.
When he makes up a category for ”saved jobs” when we are losing jobs as the entire workforce shrinks, he is LYING.
When he says going into Libya is on our interests, then does not make any case for that whatsoever, he is LYING.
Obama lies.
A lot.
*”The police acted stupidly.”
@NanG and Dr.J
Thank you for picking me up on the comments by RW to my post. It is hard to keep up with such nonsense at times.
@johngalt:
You’re welcome.
BTW, Obama came out and said he would NOT throw out the first pitch at the Nationals opening game this year.
It is a tradition, but Obama’s not too good at it, so, it ends.
The Nationals announced Monday evening that five flag officers representing each branch of the U.S. military will throw out the ceremonial first pitch before the team’s game against their division rival the Atlanta Braves.
So, that’s an improvement.
I just hope on this we can trust Obama to keep his word and stay away from Opening Day.
Video compares Obama’s first pitch with Bush’s:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP4keCkYHYU&feature=player_embedded
Geez JohnG.#105 I apologize for the stress I’ve caused you.Didn’t realize you couldn’t cut it yourself. I’ll certainly let up. Maybe your continued “adoration” of Dr. John will prove helpful.
@rich wheeler:
RW, you hardly stress me out. I was simply referring to your ability to comment incessantly on FA, while some of us actually have things to do away from the computer. It’s small wonder that someone who looks at Obama’s hypocrisy and lies as simple human failings would read into my comment #105 something that isn’t there.
As for Dr.J, I don’t have adoration for him, just simple respect. I even, if you can believe it, respect Obama himself, although I disagree with his actions and words. I have respect for you and Greg as well, although your blindness towards common sense and truth amazes me at times.
John G. I appreciate your respect and that shown our President.
Off subect A good day for Repubs. Marco Rubio left open THE POSSIBILITY he would accept V.P. nom.His inclusion would solidify Fla.,deep south and probably N.C. and Va. His Latin heritage and immigrant story would put N.M.,Nev.and Col. in play. Romney at top could carry Mich,(his father was Gov.),Ohio and with Pa.game over for Dems. Romney’s indie strength would keep BHO bottled up defending Cal,Mass and N.J.
Exit question Can Romney win nom?
I wonder if any polling organization will take up the question of, “Do you trust Barack Obama with the Nation’s security ( or well-being or however one wants to term it)?” Depending on the the sampling, I’m guessing the results would be pretty bad for Obama. How does one keep faith with the supposed Leader of the Free World who purposefully obscures his own background and political track record? The American people generally are ready to lay aside policy differences in times of war or uh, kinetic military action but I’m afraid Obama doesn’t have that reserve of goodwill. I wonder if he realizes its his own fault? Note to Obama: actually put that “transparency” you’ve talked about into action. Might help in a lot of ways. The odds of that happening are, I’m afraid, pretty small.
@ConservUSA: #110
Even if you just ask, “Do you trust Barack Obama, “Most people would say, “No.”
@Smorgasbord: I agree: Mr. All My Pronouncements Have a Sell-By Date has turned off pretty much everybody except for a small but loud minority-the MSM.
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@ConservUSA: #112
I call them “The propaganda media” because that is all they are now.
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