America changed forever after the attacks of 9-11. The loss of life was horrific. The damage was monumental. Islamic terrorists changed our way of living.
And it changed our lives in other ways. People were afraid to fly. People on passenger jets carefully scrutinized all who boarded. Security measures were heightened.
The slaughter in Las Vegas will have similar fallout. Stephen Paddock will change our lives too. For a long time, Las Vegas will not be same. People will be looking up at higher levels of hotels., in particular Mandalay Bay. Checking into a hotel is going to be similar to boarding a plane- metal detectors and X-ray machines. It is inevitable. In fact, it’s already begun. Hotels in Vegas are starting to use metal detectors. I could not even finish this post predicting it before it happened.
There is something else that has to happen- banning the bump-fire stock.
It’s difficult to look at this and argue that the weapon remains a semi-automatic
At least 12 bump-fire stocks were found in Paddock’s hotel room. Bump-fire stocks are devices that in practice turn semi-automatic weapons into near-fully automatic weapons. Watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo4kFzECXGs
With this device, Paddock was able to fire 280 rounds in 31 seconds. Nine rounds per second.
And he had 12 of them at the ready with thousands of rounds of ammunition.
I’ve been debating this with friends who tried to argue that a marksman could do the same. I do not believe that. They are making all the same arguments- ban trucks, ban planes, etc. The difference is that those things are necessities in life. This one is not.
Its brutal effectiveness was graphically demonstrated in Las Vegas. This might well be the prototype for future attacks. It was an abject lesson in how to slaughter large numbers of people.
It might also be wise to have gun stores note the quantity of purchases in large amounts – especially in a shorter period of time and report it to the ATF. Who needs 12 bump-fire socks? Who suddenly needs thousands of rounds of ammunition? Who needs 20 of the same AR’s?
What person needs all of that together? That’s the red flag.
Even if those items are not banned, a visit from the ATF might have been a prophylactic measure here. Someone actually might have the need for all of that but it would be a simple matter to prove it. If something isn’t done- if they don’t get a bone- they’ll be after the whole carcass.
That’s another prediction.
I am a 2A guy. I don’t want “sweeping gun control”, but there are certain things that can be done.
But Las Vegas cannot happen again.
DrJohn has been a health care professional for more than 40 years. In addition to clinical practice he has done extensive research and has published widely with over 70 original articles and abstracts in the peer-reviewed literature. DrJohn is well known in his field and has lectured on every continent except for Antarctica. He has been married to the same wonderful lady for over 45 years and has three kids- two sons, both of whom are attorneys and one daughter who is in the field of education.
DrJohn was brought up with the concept that one can do well if one is prepared to work hard but nothing in life is guaranteed.
Except for liberals being foolish.
We need to outlaw the demacratic liberal party becuase liberal demacrats are lower then a snake in a wagon rut
If bump stocks were banned, I wouldn’t miss a thing. The problem is, is that ALL that will be banned? Something does not necessarily have to be a part of the tragedy to become a focus. We’ve seen this.
You are an idiot. You can bump fire with no stock. We used to do this all the time. You fucking cunt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7l1v8_dMuk
@Deplorable Me: So for the people willing to give up this what are they willing to give up next time? The left was saying before they knew about bumpfire that semi fired too fast.
What do you think of this article?
http://raconteurreport.blogspot.ca/2017/10/common-sense-guns-laws-time-has-come.html
”
The TL;DR idiots will kneejerk shoot themselves in the ass on this, but the rest of you can hear it out.
Dopey DiFi wants to ban BumpFire stocks.
My 2d Amendment position is unequivocally slightly to the right of the guy who has this rec room:”
@edteach: I think that was the point I made. Cunt.
No, Dr. John. Just no.
You lost the argument when you started talking about “need”.
Where have we heard this before?
“Nobody needs xxx! We must ban it!”
So, just who gets to decide what I need?
When you start talking about “needs”, you are no longer a 2nd amendment guy. You’re Mr. Fudd.
Obama had a chance to take the bump stock off the market but declined to do so in order to aid disabled people!
http://www.9news.com/news/local/politics/obama-administration-bump-stocks-las-vegas-shooting/481089476
In 2013 the Obama Admin had another chance to take this off the market and again declined.
The ATF rejected that idea writing that it couldn’t ban bump stocks without action from Congress because the bump stocks “may only be classified as firearms components” and not automatic weapons.
weapons.
The NRA is all for banning these.
But there is natural concern for the slippery slope.
Congress is going to do something as early as next week.
Hopefully not while hotly emotional.
Let cooler thinking prevail.
@Petercat:
280 rounds in 31 seconds is an automatic weapon. It’s not about need. One more of these incidents and we’ll lose a lot more than bump fire stocks.
removal of bump stock will not cure or curb insanity, terrorism or demorat stupidity.
@MOS #8541:
That is true and I do not wants guns banned but I am telling you if this happens again you won’t like the fallout. There is no excuse for making a high powered rifle into an automatic weapon which already outlawed.
These guys know it
NRA Calls on ATF to Review Legality of Bump Fire Stocks
@DrJohn: Also, no one should get behind this blindly. This will not satisfy the left. Safety is not what they want. A defenseless public is what they want.
Outlawing IS regulating to zero..
so its a silly sentence for what meaningful purpose?
sadly, disabled people will suffer in terms of rights and desires to shoot
[which is why NRA said not to regulate to zero]
by the way…
we produce lots of smart people in this country
and one must wonder, what would this man have done if those things were not available to him?
the idiot thinks he gives up
The non idiot with skills and knowlege knows he will just switch methods and means not goals.
what if he decided that since he couldnt get a bump stock, maybe going to mexico and getting a full auto would be ok? hand grenade? maybe, given his smarts and abilities, he would have decided to manufacture devices using the amonium nitrate he had, and instead of shooting.. place hundreds of traps with long time delays… or other things (Which i will not freaking mention at all ever)
most idiots that want to do things are so use to being consumers that they go and buy something and there is a trail and you can do something
but you take that away and theya re smarter, then you get something like the unabomber, a VERY smart guy who did real bad… he went so far as to make his own screws out of scrap metal so that nothing could be traced and his were passive traps that appeared innocuous and would really hurt people for doing the default trusting non thinking thing, like clearing a driveway to mvoe the care
no… be thankful that the peopel who are capable of those things, are not the people that DO those thigns.. (though if they work for states, they may train idiots in how to construct things. because the people they use are not smart enough to actually learn and apply the principals themselves – thats freaking obvious given what they do!)
be careful what you wish for
you might get it
let me clue people on the reason for the divide and the stupid ideas
the people that want extreme guncontrol and not ideologicall but thing its a good idea are MEANS ORIENTED people. this is the majority of people.
they are trying to use a means oriented solution to a goals oriented person.
if a means oriented person gets to a river to cross and there are no bridges and there are no boats, they tend to give up… there is no means
if your like me and like military or others, then your goal oriented. and maxism like the marines “go over, under, around or through”, means is just a huge menu of ideas you can use to get the goal
the means oriented says i cant get a bump stock, so i cant shoot that fast, so i cant do that thing that way, end of story.
goals say, i cant get that bump stock, what else can i do that gets the goal i want?
and of times they end up inventing or figuring out something better because before they were thinking of easy things, now they are thinking of harder things, and thinking of other things, which will get them to alight on some really seriously more harmful easier things that are boring/not bombastic, but more effective.
another way to put it comes from business
In a means-oriented culture the key feature is the way in which work has to be carried out; people identify with the “how”.
In a goal-oriented culture employees are primarily out to achieve specific internal goals or results, even if these involve substantial risks; people identify with the “what”.
In a highly means-oriented culture people perceive themselves as avoiding risks and making only a limited effort in their jobs, while each workday is pretty much the same.
However, in a very goal-oriented culture, the employees are primarily out to achieve specific internal goals or results, even if these involve substantial risks.
The full auto nature of the weapons wasn’t the key to the high casualty total in this event. The key was the high vantage point above a huge crowd trapped by narrow exits. Aimed fire would have probably been equally or more lethal. What made this slaughter singular was the extreme planning, determination and resources available to the shooter.
Had he chosen another method, such as explosives, and applied the same level of effort, the body count could have been multiples of what he achieved.
There are so many ways to spray fire with a modern defense rifle that the proposed “bump stock ban” will gain nothing but a feeling of accomplishment among the “we must do something” crowd.
Nonetheless, the NRA must not oppose this worthless effort. The low information crowd can only judge anyone contesting the ban to be unreasonable, and they do vote. If anyone wants to win on important issues in the future, it would be unwise to die on this hill.
In 1966 a crazed man perched on the University of Texas tower and took out dozens of people. There were no concentrated crowds down below him, no concert going on and he did not have a “bump” stock. He was able to slaughter people for one reason, he held the high ground.
Perhaps we need to ban airplanes since 19 men were able to take out almost 3,000 people with just four planes. Or we should ban large trucks since one mad man was able to take out 87 people with just one truck, a set of keys and an accelerator pedal. The worst school massacre saw 44 people (children and adults) slaughtered by explosives. How long ago did that happen? Or perhaps we should ban tall buildings where evil people can take the high ground? No more high rise hotels, apartment/office buildings. Ban high ground.
What else should be banned to protect us from something the left doesn’t want to admit even exists, evil? Pure, unmitigated evil. How do you ban evil? When you can tell me that, I will agree to ban evil by what ever means is workable.
@edteach:
You make gun owners seem demented
@DaNang67:
This is something the left loves to do. They ride off on some gun-control tangent that has nothing to do with what the threat actually is (liberal extremists, mostly) and then demand more when the next tragedy occurs.
A high-powered rifle with a scope could have done a lot more damage. It has been reported that the reason so many rifles were scattered all over the room is because the “bump stock” attachment kept jamming and Paddock had to get another weapon, something I found to be frequent when reading some of the customer reviews.
The device simply needs to be put back into the status it was in before Obama interfered.
@edteach:
You sound more like a liberal member of antifa or BLM than you do any kind of conservative. That’s how they talk.
The left needs a bone. The bump stock is the one to give them. Then the NRA looks reasonable and the NRA knows it.
You know nothing, ed snow
@DrJohn:
please go here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_firearm
then realize that we have tons of machine shops and others that make this easy
then realize that kids in high school since at least the 70s made lipstick guns… (chapstick guns)..
oh, and if that isnt enough, then dont forget when there was the sandwich store guys (i think blimpies) that were caught selling fully automatic mac 10s… the news people asked how badly made this was and the army expert said, no, they were better made than the military, because the military uses stamped parts, and these guns were machined parts.
but, let me know how you can prevent the sinaloa from shipping them, with some hand grenades and such… you konw, withe every kilo you get an AK50 and converter so you can use two types of rounds, nato or not.
@DaNang67:
Thank you DaNang..
you at least realize that if he used a catapult to launch pin balls more would have died than the gun… he wouldnt even have to fire down, but a high arc would be good.
The people who want to stop things tend not to be able to make things do thing,s be inventive, etc… so they kind of think the rest of the world is as helpless as they are, and they know, they would not know how to find an illegal one, and so on
duh
you can go to mexico and get one.. its almost an open border
you can look around your neigborhood, use the democrats list of gun owners, etc. you can make them…
we remember zip guns..
at least i do..
a rubber band, a thumbtack, two pieces or wood, a car antenna, and a 22 long cartridge
heck, there is already points that he was at other venues, so nothing would have stopped this, and no bump would have done nothing too… nada..
but we WANT there to be that, and we wont ACCEPT otherwise
but the ONLY way to that is ignorance… and thats bliss i guess
would DrJohn like if deciding that bump stock wasnt available he decided to go to farms in the midwest or a forbidden island in nyc and get some natural anthrax? would THAT have been better? sending him on a quest for someting to replace the easy thing?
the point is misplaced
we have removed the morals of soceity for the ladies
but you cant do that half sided
so the improvemetns they made led to this all being possible, which is why the elft pushes it. unless you have enough wack jobs that will do this, you cant have a revolution. can you?
so making wack jobs like this, is a pre-requisite to regime change under the ideas of socialist change. or anyone else remember their history… i mean remember history?
retire05 – he wasnt crazy, he was an ex marine, had problems, coldnt get treatment, they found a tumor.. which is why that was a reason for a while, but others never had them
The brother of the shooter knows more then he is saying. Caught lying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg_Z-oEEt-c
@DaNang67: As I read Dr. John’s misguided article and most of the responses, I came up with a way to make the bump stock seem like a toy. This clown, not Dr. J, did a spray and pray into a target rich environment. There is zero way to defend against that. He could have as easily used his tannerite and a panel van loaded with propane and nails to have done as much damage, if not much more. Oh are pressure cookers still unlicensed and unregulated?
RE: “But Las Vegas cannot happen again.”
The good news is that law enforcement won’t allow public venues that allow this to happen. They will learn from this.
The bad news is that you cannot regulate a technology that is this simple. Seriously. Look at the add-ons that are currently being sold to speed up the rate of fire. Do you really think that these systems cannot be made and tested effectively at home, in private, without anyone finding out. Personally, I wouldn’t use a bump stock because it’s too inaccurate. I’d use a crank mechanism and put a motor on it. A bump stock is a plastic part with a spring in it. They’re cheap because they are simple. How soon before plans are on the web to 3D print them?
Technology cannot be unlearned. Simple technology cannot be eliminated by making it’s mass manufacture illegal. Bad people who are plotting mass murder will always be able to ignore your silly laws.
It is against the law to murder.
That law did not stop him.
Another law will do what, exactly?
Make politicos feel good.
But more laws will not protect us more.
Sorry, Dr J.
Why certain firearm accessories should be outlawed ought be completely obvious, to anyone who gives a serious thought to what they make possible. Restricting access greatly reduces the risk of a particular sort of event, plain and simple. Failure to act greatly increases the likelihood of an even worse attack of the sort that occurred in Las Vegas. There is no more practical way to address this particular threat.
@DrJohn: #9
Only if we roll over and play dead for the anti-gun nuts.
If we give them this much, they’ll come back for more later.
They always do.
They demand compromise – “Give us half of what we demand!”
Then they demand half of what’s left.
Then another half.
Until they have everything they want, and we have nothing.
No thanks, Mr. Fudd.
You’re welcome to surrender everything that someone else thinks that you don’t “need”.
But you are not welcome to surrender anything of mine that you think I don’t need.
But you’re going to try anyway, aren’t you?
Hint: You don’t get to decide what I need.
@Artfldgr:
If you are talking about the UT tower sniper, yeah, he was batsh!t crazy. He had access to the VA, and to any of the military medical centers that were just an hour away in San Antonio. UT, at the time, had a boat load of vets going to college on the G.I. bill. Do you think they were all being denied care?
My brother had classes with the UT sniper, who never saw combat. Never. He was an engineering major at UT, as was my brother, and the sniper had never left stateside. So don’t try to give me that whole “PTSD” crap.
You are not accepting that there are people who are simply evil, and there is no understanding as how to deal with evil. And I am still waiting for Dr. John to explain to me how a society bans evil.
@Petercat:
It won’t be me. The NRA agrees with me and they will not oppose legislation. Machine guns are banned.
It’s good to know how many different ways there are to create a machine gun. That will help public will rise to demand gun confiscation when this happens again. Then you’ll know why I asked for this now.
We should start by scouring social networks and finding those who are suggesting or pledging violence against people because of their political disappointment. Not only those, but anyone following, “Liking” or making supportive, agreeable comments on their posts should be put on no-fly lists, no-gun purchase lists and terror watch lists. The IRS should be looking deeply into their finances as well, to assure they are not using any of their finances for terrorist activities.
Also, those actively pursuing impeachment of elected officials who have committed no impeachable acts are displaying clear signs of mental illness and infirmity and should also be put on all the appropriate lists. Along with them, all the supporters, listed above, should be put on the lists.
Anyone that has made PUBLIC statements or demonstrations suggesting, supporting or implying violence against a general group of citizens, or against a leader that would have a large number of followers that would be targeted for their beliefs, and anyone showing support for them, should be put on as many lists as is applicable.
Anyone that has participated in a Black Lives Matter or ANTIFA rally, anyone participating in Occupy Wall Street or anyone that has offered support to those organizations, should be on lists of potentially violent individuals, as these are organizations openly promoting violence based on politics.
We can probably add to that ANYONE making wild, unsubstantiated accusations at those they disagree with. This is a clear indication of mental instability and the mark of someone that just MAY lash out against an innocent public.
Once action against a clear and present danger to public safety is addressed, THEN we can begin discussing if any additional gun control measures are needed.
“If one life can be saved…”
@Deplorable Me
Me either. In fact, the very first time I ever heard the term ‘bump stock’ was about 3 days after the Vegas thing. Had to find out what it was. I sure won’t miss it if they are outlawed. All automatic firing weapons, this includes ‘under any conditions’ should be outlawed. Semi-auto is completely sufficient. If was breaks out where civilians are needed, then we can make auto weapons available to militia. But not before
I don’t understand how anyone can say passing ‘xxx’ law will stop idiots from going on murder sprees. People, shooting your neighbor is ‘already’ against the law. Does anyone think that a new law that specifically says it is illegal to shoot your neighbor will change the number of neighbors that get shot? If I was hellbent on killing my neighbor, owning a gun would not make any difference.
@DrJohn: #30
Machine guns aren’t banned, they’re just so heavily regulated that only the wealthy can own them. The LV shooter could have bought one, if he’d wanted to wait a year or so for government permission.
You could just put your index finger across the trigger, hook it into your pocket, and pull the rifle forward with your other hand. No accessories needed.
And the fact that the NRA agrees with you is nothing more than an appeal to irrelevant authorities. It means nothing.
All the bumpstock ban will do is make full-auto fire (or it’s simulation) a exclusive toy for the wealthy.
We already have too many laws on the books outlawing things because they might be used to harm another, we don’t need this one.
Are you ready to give up your Mercedes or Lexus because no one needs a car that will do 120mph? I’m not.
Have fun with your smart car.
They cant do an effective confiscation of law abiding citizens firearms without a registry, so I guess I wont have illegal guns just undocumented.
The left needs a bone, but they want the whole damned cow. As Nancy Pelosi explains:
–
Pelosi’s words, during a recent exchange with a reporter at a press conference on Capitol Hill about a proposed ban on bump stock gun add-ons: “They’re going to say, ‘You give them bump stock, it’s going to be a slippery slope.’ I certainly hope so.”
–
No to everything, or it’s eventually yes to everything.
There is no compromising with the lefties.
@Petercat: Oh, the left doesn’t want to ban guns… they just want to close manufacturers, make ammunition unavailable, ban magazines, impose restrictions, fees and taxes that make them too expensive for the common man to afford and totally vilify owners and ownership.
But a ban? You’re paranoid!!
If the democrats would stop shooting people, we could save THOUSANDS of lives every year. That’s just in Illinois!