Here is How the Pro-Choice Crowd Can Win the Debate Once and for All… Or Forever Shut Up



“Fertility clinics destroy embryos all the time. Why aren’t conservatives after them?” was the title of an article from Margot Kaplan in the Opinion pages of last Sunday’s Washington Post. This is one of those pieces that contains enough ridiculous to write a thousand words or two to counter, but one sentence in particular really got me thinking (emphasis mine):

The disparity between how the law treats abortion patients and IVF patients reveals an ugly truth about abortion restrictions: that they are often less about protecting life than about controlling women’s bodies. Both IVF and abortion involve the destruction of fertilized eggs that could potentially develop into people. But only abortion concerns women who have had sex that they don’t want to lead to childbirth. Abortion restrictions use unwanted pregnancy as a punishment for “irresponsible sex” and remind women of the consequences of being unchaste: If you didn’t want to endure  a mandatory vaginal ultrasound  , you  shouldn’t have had sex in the first place  .

OK, I lied – there is one other point I couldn’t let pass. Go back to the last sentence of that paragraph – how is it that leftists get so up in arms over the invasive, “mandatory vaginal ultrasounds”, being part of the abortion process but have no problem with the invasive, mandatory… abortions?

Back to the main point – Kaplan is trying to equate IVF and harvesting organs from abortions as simply the “destruction of fertilized eggs that could potentially develop into people.” I understand that she is arguing against the part of the pro-life crowd’s “Life begins at inception” argument. Which technically, is a point I was always taught in science class. But the way I’m reading her statement is that the two procedures are no different. Let’s not forget that the source of this controversy is the fact that aborted fetuses are being used to harvest their organs. For example, kidneys are one of the sets of organ being extracted for research. According the handy guide I had posted in my previous post on the subject they start functioning around week 14. To take Kaplan’s logical conclusion that the two procedures are no different that would mean that embryos are being grown for at least 14 weeks for the sole intent of killing them to extract their organs. Where are these organ farms and how long have they existed? We need answers! And is there any cutoff age for this involuntary organ donation, or do we occasionally see something like what the boys from Monty Python might have done? I know, using the “Live organ donor” skit isn’t a fair comparison at all – the man in the skit making the organ donation actually personally consented.


Well, they do have the signed donor card…

OK, sorry for the snark, but thinking along those lines led me to a more serious point. As I had mentioned in my previous post asking where the groups opposing to cruelty to animals stand on this, abortion isn’t a subject I write about. People’s opinions are too strong to sway, and there is little I can add to the conversation that hasn’t already been written. What has captured my interest though, is how this issue has been handled with the same intellectual dishonesty that the left uses too often with other issues. For example, on my Facebook Feed each time a new video gets released the recycled headline reads along the lines of “Group releases latest video attacking Planned Parenthood”.

Um, “attacking?” While the videos being released do not portray PP positively, there is no editorial content. They are simply showing PP’s everyday business practices. if your best defense of your everyday activity is to claim that you’re being attacked, then maybe what your doing is wrong? For example, if somebody asked me to express my opinions on President Obama’s performance and captured them with a hidden camera, an ensuing story along the lines of “Hidden video exposes the truth – Brother Bob is an ***hole!” I wouldn’t go into some PR blitz panic, try explaining that only 3% of my time is spent being an ***hole – you get the idea. My response would simply be, “Yes, it’s what I do. Two minutes spent reading my site would tell anyone that”

What is most interesting is that the same crowd that loves to preach that “We need to have a national conversation on…” is trying at all costs to make this conversation about everything except what is actually being done. And this is what takes me back to the title of this post, and it is my challenge to the pro-choice crowd:

If you feel that what everything that Planned Parenthood is doing is both legal and ethical then let’s see a detailed report of their business practices, including pricing/reimbursement schedules associates with tissue donation, along with historical data to back them up.

If the procedures for removing the organs are completely ethical and not causing a living being to suffer, show us the video footage and photos of such extraction. How is the fetus reacting to the stimuli associates with the procedure? Is it suffering, and if so, how much is acceptable for the research it will help advance? If the research is as valuable as you say then show us what breakthroughs or progress have been made as a direct result of research performed on fetal tissue.

If this is truly about science and not political muscle, then you should have absolutely no problem showing everything that Planned Parenthood does and stand proudly by it. And if Planned Parenthood’s abortion procedures are humane, ethical, and valuable to science, then society as a whole will support them, and these “attacks” will simply go away.

If it sounds like I’m being harsh, keep in mind that if your beliefs can’t stand up to counter-arguments then it’s time to question why you believe. I’ve seen plenty of footage of what goes on in the meatpacking industry, and I’m well aware of the journey of any portion of meat that lands on my dinner plate. And despite the distasteful “making of sausage” I have no problem with enjoying the fact that I’ve evolved to the top of the food chain. If our brains have the sense to know that bacon is far superior to tofu, then isn’t choosing to be a vegan anti-science? But I digress.

As I’ve said before, my position is still best described as “squishy pro-abortion.” Abortion is not a key issue for me, but the dishonesty with how the left discusses it is.If you support Planned Parenthood and are willing to discuss in detail their practices, then even though I disagree with your support for the activities being exposed, I honestly applaud your integrity.

And if you’re a supporter and the best defense you have is that you’re angry that someone exposed you, then you have earned the right to shut up. Permanently. Or as Chris Jericho might say… 


Mr. Jericho could have a future as a White House Press Secretary…

Cross posted from Brother Bob’s Blog

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The Biblele clearly states that a fetus is not a human
It pegs the value at less than an oz silver
Abortion is legal in Israel

Nice your post brother !

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Salam kenal brow dari saya.

The issue was settled by the United States Supreme Court in 1973. An effort is being made to deprive women of the right to exercise sovereign control over their own bodies and their own reproductive function which has been guaranteed for the past 42 years.

Intelligent women know perfectly well what this is about. It is, in fact, about control.

Greg, the issue of the individual right to carry arms was also settled by the Supreme Court. Do you also disavow the gun control organizations? Please excuse me, I know a little off topic.

@Jim: does the 2nd also give frlons any Nya the right to carry?

@John: Have you not yet realized that the argument is not about abortion, but the intentional timing of abortions to yield the best “product”, which occurs at a time when it has been shown the “fetus” can actually experience pain? Or, not?

As with the argument in the post about the dishonesty of the left in addressing the actual issue, so go John and Greg here making the opposition to the purposeful death of beings to harvest tissue about a “war on women”. This, in and of itself, exposes the moral bankruptcy of the left and how they most certainly realize the disgusting and inhuman nature of the practice.

Once again, there is no argument to end abortion, but that federal funding of a very profitable enterprise should most certainly be ended… if this nation has any moral character remaining.

All the pro choice. Side has to go is to show them the Bible and tell them abortion is legal in Israel

Roe v Wade only made it legal for women to obtain abortions during the 1ST TRIMESTER, Greg.
Many of these abortions are being timed so the baby is at 20 weeks or more (totally illegal even in the USA in many states.
Want to miss some people?
How about Payton Manning, Joaquin Phoenix (SP??), Tom Brokaw, Cheech Marin, Stacy Keach, Jesse Jackson?
They all could have been aborted at around 20 weeks because their Cleft lips/palates would have been visible on sonogram by then.
In UK women get abortions for that all the time.

An egg holds only half of the genetic code to create a human as does a single sperm. Once the sperm penetrates the outer membrane of the egg (ie fertilizes it,) and the DNA strand combines it is no longer an egg. It becomes a zygote, which rapidly continues cellular division and transformation to become a fetus.


Interesting point.. lets follow it to its logical conclusion

Lets kill all homosexuals, because in several countries that is the law
Lets load jews into ovens, as that was once legal too
Lets experiment on children, the same german country that put jews in ovens legalized that (and now in the US we have similar interventions for the point of saving such kids for the future)
Lets legalize slavery again, as that is also ok in some places

would you REALLY like to copy the laws of other countries assuming that their laws are right because they align with what you want? who makes you emperor to decide such? would the person who stands as emperor agree with you, or find some legal reason to have a post birth abortion and stick you in a camp and work you to death till you died of starvation or desease? that was legal in socialist countries too… (and may still be)


and that is why that group that follows that are below replacement level for two generations and will be a minority in the US in under 10 years (see and who already have so few babies that the immigrants are having more than they are.

people who are never born are not the future of anything…


your not off topic, greg made it a constitutional issue…
except that the right to defend oneself and have firearms did not need years of protest and the invention of penumbras with pages of contortions to explain it to explain how a word can be abstracted to evoke something someone wants when their really is no legal point to having it… (forget the other selling arguments as to rape being the reason – very few are for that.. and it would be rare rather than common and used to control population in different groups to balance the spreadsheets)

Obama has pulled the trigger on a ”If Planned Parenhood can’t get the money, no one can,” tactic in Kansas.
Kansas decided to use family planning money for OTHER family planning clinics.
It was going to direct about $325,000 to those clinics instead of Planned Parenthood.
So, what did Obama do?
He stripped Kansas of federal Title X “family planning” funds.
Now, when he falsely claims that, without Planned Parenhood, women can’t get family planning at all, who is to blame?
None other than he, himself!