I won’t politicize if you won’t, Mr. President.
President Obama does deserve credit as it happened on his watch. He’s made good on his campaign promise (really, it was only a matter of time before justice would catch up to al Qaeda’s #1 figurehead, a culmination of the last 9 years, not just the last 9 months). But it’s irksome that his narcissism can’t help but inject himself into this:
“Last August, after years of painstaking work by our intelligence community, I was briefed on a possible lead to bin Laden. It was far from certain, and it took many months to run this thread to ground,” President Obama told the nation in a speech Sunday night.
“Today, at my direction, the United States launched a targeted operation against that compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan. A small team of Americans carried out the operation with extraordinary courage and capability. No Americans were harmed. They took care to avoid civilian casualties. After a firefight, they killed Osama bin Laden and took custody of his body,” he said.
Or maybe as a partisan, I’m far too sensitive and am reading more into it than is warranted. Of course President Obama had to green light the operation; but I seem to always feel like this president has a way of always making it all about him; of taking undue credit for things he had little to do with (yes, he gave the order; but what sitting president wouldn’t have? Actually, Clinton had opportunities and did not take them, so nix that). Even when he says, “it’s never been about me”, he inadvertently seems to make it otherwise.
President Obama deserves credit, whether he wants to claim it (and he does) or not. And I am glad he called his two predecessors to give them the news. The hunt did not begin on his watch but President Obama has seen it to through to its conclusion.
The real winners, of course, are the American people.
Finally setting aside partisan politics at the end of this partisan post, I’d like to say, thank you President Obama and congratulations for a job well done!
Josh Rogins offers a timeline (beginning with Obama’s decision-making for what led directly to this operation).
A former fetus, the “wordsmith from nantucket” was born in Phoenix, Arizona in 1968. Adopted at birth, wordsmith grew up a military brat. He achieved his B.A. in English from the University of California, Los Angeles (graduating in the top 97% of his class), where he also competed rings for the UCLA mens gymnastics team. The events of 9/11 woke him from his political slumber and malaise. Currently a personal trainer and gymnastics coach.
The wordsmith has never been to Nantucket.
I call BS on his having anything to do with this except signing a piece of paper that gave them the authority to go in and finish the job. We all know how this went, someone came in and briefed him and the Pretender in Chief waved them off and told them to not bother him with this till they had something definite and then he would make a decision. His whole involvement was simply a pen stroke and that is all the Military and Intelligence communities are who needs to be hailed as the true heroes in this.
And of course we’re going to have to put up with the Andrea Mitchells of the media….
@Aleric: We really should “rise above it” even if Obama can’t help but make this into a campaign issue (see how I am not rising above it, folks? 🙂 ), and simply congratulate him, the CIA, the SEALs and the rest of our military, and the American people on a job well done. This is cause for celebration and not rankled political hay.
Leave left and right politics out of it. Happened on his watch. He gets the credit by default, just like credit and blame goes to any sitting president, regardless of how much influence they actually control on the market, on gas prices, etc.
Hey….at least the Pakistani government is behaving humbly, minimizing the significant role they played in all this. 😉
WORD Once again a true voice of intelligence and reason here at F.A. Thanks
I give Barry a good mark on this. Yes, his constant use of me, my, and I are getting old and just a touch of humility would be great to see, but he did call Bush and Bush issued a great statement with the tone that Barry will never be able to deliver.
But the real heros are the intelligence folks who fought through the curtain for years to finally get a sniff and to the military folks that took the trash out and dumped it into the sea. Now what I expect to hear is the ecology freaks condemning dumping this garbage into the sea…
Looking Ahead…
The GWOT is NOT over. Don’t call it a “Man Made Disaster”.
Bin Laden Killing Draws Praise From Allies but Concern About Reprisals
So lets celebrate with Defense Budget Cuts, withdraw Troops and wait for the next move? Put away the Champagne and get serious. There is no vacuum in the Al Q Chain of Command. Our Allies realize that the Threat is far from diminished. The US needs to bear that in mind on the way ahead.
This is the Long War and the next front has not opened up yet. Pakistan has been deceitful and We know that. Windsock Diplomacy is not a winner. This one ain’t over yet.
No, this should not be politicized. Justice can happen, regardless of ideological leanings. I posted in the other thread that I thank President Obama for not changing course in Gitmo, or Afghanistan, and I mean it. I should also thank him for making the decision for the go ahead on this particular mission. He has done well, and has done what the majority of Americans, and others around the globe, wanted to have done.
He deserves no other thanks, or recognition, for what has happened, though. The majority of the thanks goes to the boots on the ground, the boots in the trenches(both at home and abroad), and the boots already hung up, all of whom contributed to this moment. And I thank them from the most selfish motive possible to me, that I, myself, may never be harmed from the actions of OBL again. Thank you.
Do we need to pull out President Bush’s statements about ordering some operation or another to find the same language? Does that make Bush narcissistic?
Yeah, how dare Obama say he directed anyone, as if he were the President of the United States!
@Old Trooper 2:
I echo that sentiment, OT2. It may never be over, considering the nature of the enemy.
OK then…Who wants to give Harry S. Truman Full credit for winning WWII by signing off on the Orders to bomb Hiroshima or Nagasaki? Don’t everyone stand up at once…
@blast: Blast, you don’t see him constantly placing emphasis on the “I” in teammwork? Fine. I do. I admit to being openly partisan in seeing phantoms that might not be there. What’s your excuse for not seeing it? 😀
Peter Feaver:
@Aleric:
I think Wordsmith is correct; happened on Obama’s watch, he gets the credit.
Now about this colossal deficit running us into the ground, ‘health’ insurance only a socialist would love, etc, etc……..well, it’s ‘on his watch’…….
@Old Trooper 2:
Anyone who would do so does not know the history of the Pacific Theater of Operations in WWII. They do not know of the tens of thousands of lives it cost, battling island by island, to reach the point where the Japanese mainland was in reach by our aircraft. They do not know the struggles of the scientists, not only to devise the bombs, but also the wrestling they had done with their own conscience on whether to do it or not. They do not know the extraordinary entirety of will that went into making those two, simple, bombing runs, of which President Truman’s action was a simple sign off on the plan. There is no doubt that Truman receives credit, and thanks, for so solemn a task as introducing such hell on earth, but your point is valid.
Like Truman in WWII, Obama deserves credit for the decisions he did make, that allowed this moment to happen. The decision to not close Gitmo. The decision to continue on with actions as they were, in Afghanistan. And, the decision to give the green light on the mission. He deserves credit, and thanks, for those actions, but no more, and no less.
@Word: You are offended at “at my direction” and “I ordered?” That’s the way that Commanders in Chief talk. That’s the way GW Bush always talked, in such situations.
Obama deserves credit; not all the credit; not most of the credit; not much of the credit, but he deserves as much credit as any Commander in Chief would deserve, in such a situation.
Remember “Carter’s failed rescue mission?” The Pakistanis knew that US helicopters would be flying 200 miles over their airspace. They had to know. But they didn’t want to have anything to do with it, in case it blew up in everyone’s face. This could have been a very public fiasco. Obama might not get a lot of credit, in some people’s minds, for the success, but he’d have gotten most of the blame, had it failed. And a 400 mile helicopter round trip and a face to face firefight was anything other than a slam dunk. As it was, they lost one of the choppers. What if 4 Americans had been killed and bin Laden had slipped away? It would have guaranteed a GOP victory in 2012.
In retrospect, realizing that this went back to last August, and with all the bad political and economic stuff which has been happening, you have to give the guy some credit for having a cool public face and steady hand on the tiller. He ordered the mission in the morning, then went about his business, visiting the devastation in Alabama, visiting the Space Shuttle launch site, and giving a speech at Miami Dade College. Not a hint that something huge was churning, literally under the radar.
This wasn’t a lucky break — taking advantage of a favorable political opportunity. He announced during his campaign that getting Obama would be job number one, war on terrorism-wise. He instructed US intelligence that getting Obama was job number one. He ran on a platform of refocusing attention from Iraq to Afghanistan and Pakistan. He tremendously boosted assets in that region. He dramatically stepped up the drone strikes, in the face of withering criticism from Pakistanis. He didn’t exactly behave like the weak Muslim-sympathizer which he’s been made out to be by political opponents.
He stated, at the time of his election, that his top two priorities were health care reform and capturing Bin Laden. You might not agree with the priorities, but that’s what he said and that’s precisely what he did.
How does Obama look, as of this morning, compared to how Donald Trump looks, as of this morning? Who looks more “Presidential,” Barack Obama or Sarah Palin?
How this plays out politically, over the long run, will be an interesting question. I think that Obama will gain a lot. I listened this morning to an interview with a Republican advisor who worked with both GW Bush and John McCain. He said that voters are more influenced by the perception of leadership qualities in Presidential races than policy issues. Another interesting comment I heard was that proud Americans did not go to the Capitol Building to wave flags and celebrate — they went to the White House. A prior vulnerability for Obama is that he was relentlessly attacked for not having the “necessities” or qualifications (“community organizer”) to be our Commander in Chief. Bush won the 2004 election because of the perception that he was the right man in the job to protect America in perilous times.
The next shoe to drop may well be what happens with the next terrorist attack against us, which seems likely to happen, between now and the election. If I were a jihadist, I’d look around and see that jihad is becoming marginalized, by what’s happening in Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen, Bahrain, Libya, Syria, and possibly other places to follow. The incredibly ballsy and successful take out of the founder and spiritual head of Islamic Jihad further threatens the jihadi brand. They need to do something to regain some relevance, before history passes them by. Does a young jihadist to be work with some Al Qaeda franchise to attack America or does he attack a dictator in his own country? This is what’s at stake for Al Qaeda; they risk losing the next generation of recruits.
That’s the real importance of killing Osama bin Laden.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
I give Obama credit.
And thanks.
Remember Clinton let Osama slip away three times.
Signing a piece of paper was too much for Bill.
So, Obama is deserving of credit.
But Obama keeps making the mistake of tying the whole jihad terror war on al Qaeda.
But al Qaeda wanted a worldwide caliphate.
That was and is its goal.
The Muslim Brotherhood is on the rise worldwide and willing to take over whole countries or, if need be, merely neighborhoods in its quest for worldwide caliphate.
The Muslim Brotherhood is not just patient, it is willing to ”fight” through warfare and lawfare and demographics and whatever-else-will-work.
But Obama likes the Muslim Brotherhood.
That is a big danger to our future.
Worldwide caliphate, by violent or peaceful means, is still a bad thing for the rule of law and the USA, as we know it.
I actually don’t view Obama any differently than I did Bush or any other politician. They are elected to do a job. Part of that job is to take flack for mistakes and glory for wins. Just the nature of the beast. In the end, one cannot just pick and choose what we like and dislike about a leader. They are not divisible – they are human.
I am just glad that Bin Laden is dead, and I hope he was pissing in his pants before he was shot in the head.
I don’t have a problem giving obama some of the credit. He did avoid blowing it (unlike Carter who tried to micromanage). I agree somewhat with Word that “directed” is a bit much. He authorized the mission, but directed it? Don’t think so.
As for politicizing it, the MSM and other rabid lefties have already been doing so.
I believe there is no way to avoid this being politicized, Wordsmith. It’s a campaign year, and this is an emotional campaign promise. Obama is to be credited for keeping the focus on a single man that so many wanted “dead or alive”…. a continuation of the Bush quest. He is also to be commended for giving the go ahead to the mission… maybe.
…. and that maybe means what Pakistan does. Obama campaigned on more intrusion into Pakistan… with or without their approval. I believed him them, and I believe him now. But I also recognized that Pakistan – a nuke enabled state – is better as a quasi ally than as an enemy.
When Musharraf was in power, he was aware of the US ops that happened. He gave them the tacit nod of approval, then wagged a finger at the US in the press to keep face with the Pakistani people, who do not want Pakistan to cooperate with the US.
Reports I read indicate they didn’t know until after this operation happened. Combined with the increased predator attacks, I don’t know how well this is going to settle with the Pakistan government and US relations.
What I hope is that they did the Musharraf “tacit nod of approval”, and are just making noises post the op. I believe it was Bloomberg biz news who had a brief interview with the exiled Musharraf on this event. They asked if he thought the Pakistani’s knew of Obama’s presence so close to the Capitol. He seemed firm in saying they didn’t, but then I wouldn’t expect to hear anything else from him.
The thing to watch is whether there is a significant change… more hostile… in Pakistan-US relations. If they do, then Obama did, indeed, send a hit squad into that state without running thru Pakistan channels. And that will not bode well.
@blast, I have to agree with Wordsmith here. When it came to Libya… where he used the same *I* did this…. routine, we know very well that he was dragged into Libra, kicking screaming biting and fighting by the trio women of war… Hillary, Samantha Powers and Susan Rice. Obama is wise enough to have aversion to starting another war during a POTUS campaign that he knows will be unpopular with his anti war base.
I give him full credit for following thru and giving the order… I think. Again, my caveat is how that is done. If Pakistan was totally caught by surprise, and again becomes an open, hostile nation to the US, then killing UBL was not worth the price of admission. The repercussions of such a radical reversal in foreign policy relations is a dangerously high price to pay for an “I got him” moment.
UBL had had essentially been neutered as a real threat, and just remained an inspirational figure head and legend. Our attacks since Sept 11 have not emanated from UBL, but from the Global Islamic Jihad Movements in general, as @Nan G correctly notes above. This has been a pet peeve of mine, even from the Bush days… incorrectly defining “the enemy” in such a narrow fashion.
Were I to take a guess where this is going, I’d say Obama is going to use getting UBL as the reason to abandon Afghanistan. “Our job here is done” kind of thing. Sticking to the Bush-Iraq SOFA, and the Iraq troops will be gone soon as well… all in time for the 2012 election.
This leaves him only with Libya. And he’s already made that quite clear Libya is “not a war”…. uh, okay.
I’m sorry, but I’m calling BS on you for this comment, Larry. I have no recollection of a Bush personal swagger and self congratulations on any missions. NOTE: Before you go into Mission Accomplished, you’d better be reminded that it was the Naval carrier’s crew who requested that banner to mark the end of the long deployment in the ship’s history…
In fact, he was a very humble man, always laying the full credit to military. What you made was a very partisan statement, and I’d like to see what examples you have of Bush taking such credit in unabashed personal self promotion.
Links to quotes please.
Actually, Larry, you’re half right, and I half agree with you. But you’re way off on reality on a few points.
There as no need to “refocus” from Iraq to Afghanistan and Pakistan because Iraq was wrapping up due to the SOFA agreement between the Bush admin and Iraq in Dec, before Obama was sworn in. Obama’s Iraq accomplishments is that he did not rock the boat by speeding up the withdrawal schedule, and sticking to the original. His faux pas will be if he refuses to extend the troops presence if Iraq requests so. That is part of the SOFA agreement… that the US will not abandon them if they need the US longer than the original SOFA.
You also are way off base if you think that attention was never paid to Afghanistan and Pakistan prior to Obama. As I mentioned above, I’m not sure that stepping up the predator attacks was wise for foreign policy. Nor was the Obama swagger of “I don’t need no stinking permission to go into Pakistan” campaign promise something I considered wise. As I mentioned above, if Obama has now made an open hostile enemy of Pakistan, the price paid for UBL’s death is too dangerously high.
But overall, I agree that Obama’s attempt at war strategy pretty much follows in Bush’s footsteps… tho less efficient. The Bush problem with Afghanistan is that it has been a NATO controlled operation, with nanny wussy NATO ROEs, since the summer of 2006. Coincidently, that was the beginning of the decline in security… when NATO assumed full security responsibilities. The attempt to get other nations to contribute to the forces there was ineffect from late 2006, with other nations refusing to get their hands dirty.
Until the SOFA was signed with Iraq in Dec 2008, there was no way that Bush could escalate Afghanistan with additional troops. Indeed, the troops that Obama sent were those that were freed up because of the Bush-Iraq SOFA.
Lastly, this was total luck because, had Obama kept his campaign promise by closing Gitmo, trying the detainees in civilian courts… which would result in setting them free since the intel obtained from any “torture” could not be admitted… the Gitmo Club Med member who provided this intel would probably be residing in that Pakistan mansion, and none of this would have transpired.
To top it off, the most embarrassing reality may be is that it’s likely that intel wasn’t obtained by serving the guy Mickey D Happy Meals….
So Obama was the benefit of dumb luck…. he figured out he couldn’t close Gitmo. All the interrogation tactics he disapproved provided him with the intel, which he gladly used as a CiC. Ironic, don’t you think?
As he authorized the mission, he deserves some credit today. The sitting President always gets the blame or the kudos, no matter what. so be it. Thank God for our wonderful service men! Kudos must also be given to Patreaus who stuck his head on the block in while going after things in Pakistan, what with drones, etc., something the administration was loathe to do as the Pakistanis didn’t like it. (I do wonder how many permission slips they had to get from the folks in D.C before they actually carried out the operation, but that’s just a thought that ran through my mind. Hard to fight when your hands are tied by absurd so called legalities)
All in all a good day! However, normally when one cuts the head off a snake, the body dies. In this case, citing the centuries of radical hatred, etc. that comes from these people, one must still assume the body is whole. The deep rooted hatred not only for Israel, but for anything other than their own views I’m afraid will keep these folks going on their merry way. As such, we must not ease up on the pressure! We go after these radicals until they fold up their tents!
@ Blast
You can read his speech here: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/01/iraq/main551946.shtml
In every speech concerning the military, he gave the military credit and said “we” instead of “I” and “me.”
@openid.aol.com/runnswim:
I’m not “offended”. Just partisanly suspicious since in past speeches, It seems like he is always placing the emphasis on himself. I think it’s subconscious on his part. There’s no need to insert, “at my direction” into his speech deliverance.
“What the nay-sayers don’t understand is that this election has never been about me. It’s been about you.”– Obama.
No….it’s ALL about HIM. I really think he got sucked into the messianic/savior-like hype that surrounded his election like a halo. JFK/MLK-2nd coming, all rolled up into one. He sees his presidency as historic in a way that other presidents haven’t, as the first glass-ceiling breaking “black” president.
And where have I not stated as much within the post itself?
Personally, I see that as campaign rhetoric as the war on terror has not been a focal point of his presidency. In what number of speeches since his election has he kept that campaign promise alive and in the forefront of the American consciousness?
One he’s talked about heavily and promoted; the other, not so much.
Have I ever promoted either choices as my presidential pick?
Obama’s sagging approval ratings will get a much needed boost in light of this and his birth certificate announcement. Perhaps will even save his presidency (that, and a Republican-held House of Representatives).
Blast and Larry… I’d say that @Aqua has provided you with a much needed reintroduction to the former, and far more humble CiC with his link to Bush’s carrier speech above.
Again, to both of you… do provide us with those “me me, I, I, my, my” instances of Dubya. Do you need a few weeks, months, years?
Toby Harnden’s piece:
@openid.aol.com/runnswim:
Typo. Easy to make. 😉
@mata:
http://articles.cnn.com/2008-02-08/politics/bush.speech_1_conservative-banner-conservative-political-action-conference-john-mccain?_s=PM:POLITICS
I’m interested in the source for your conclusion that the actionable intelligence which led to Bin Laden’s killing was obtained at Gitmo, following Obama’s election, using waterboarding or other “torture” techniques. An additional point is that actionable intelligence has been gleaned, over the years, from sites all over the globe (including at US mainland prisons), using interrogation techniques which did not involve physical torture. So, again, I’d like to ask you for a citation, in the same vein as you asked me.
When did I ever say that no prior “attention” was paid to Afghanistan/Pakistan? What I stated was factually correct.
I don’t disagree that the killing of Bin Laden was a tag team effort, with credit going to two administrations, just as the fall of the Soviet Union was a tag team effort between Reagan and administrations which had preceded him.
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
@Aqua
“On my orders, the United States military has begun strikes against al Qaeda terrorist training camps and military installations of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan. …..
….More than two weeks ago, I gave Taliban leaders a series of clear and specific demands…”
That was my first look back at Bush. I don’t really feel like looking up all of his speeches, but I am sure Bush, Clinton and just about use, I, my.. etc, it is natural speech. Not sure what your point is.
Edit: @ mata, It took a few seconds to find an example. So much for your notion of humble.
@Wordsmith, interesting point of view that is juxtaposition to my own. I see the US aiding and encouraging in the overthrow of quasi Muslim allied nations (i.e. Egypt, Yemen and Libya), and taking a hands off for Muslim despots who are overt US enemies. Now, in the wake of throwing those 3 Muslim allies in terrorist intel under the wheels of Obama’s famous bus, we can add what may be a potentially unsanctioned spec ops on Pakistani soil. If that’s true, there’s another quasi ally under the bus.
Lots of articles today at Pakistan’s The Dawn publication. Gilani warns that the US better handles this spin well, because the lack of Pakistani involvement or approval makes it look like the US can act on their soil without impunity.
The Taliban of Pakistan, formerly led by deceased Baitullah Mehsud, has promised revenge… now taking aim at Pakistani officials as their first targets, US their second.
There has never been any doubt that UBL’s death would make him a martyr for a particular sect of Islam. The question is, how widespread will that honor for UBL extend into the moderate Muslim world?
What is emerging from these so called “democratic uprisings” is certainly not preferrable to the leadership who was there when it comes to cooperating with the US on security intelligence. In fact, were the fundamental Islam groups to gain the foothold in their government, the global Islamic jihad movements have reason to rejoice. They have many more places now to plant their Caliphate flags.
@openid.aol.com/runnswim: Well….partisanly-speaking ;)….in a very substantive sense, Bush was right in regards to his role…
“The Decider” played a major role in pushing the surge strategy. With John Kerry in office, do you think that would have materialized?
@MataHarley:
As a side note: where are the Muslims rejoicing about this?
Obama made a huge point that Osama was no leader of Muslims.
Obama even pointed out that Osama killed Muslims.
So, where is the rejoicing at his death in Islam?
(I don’t mean American Muslims, either.)
TV news should be able to show it, right?
Maybe this is why we aren’t seeing Muslim rejoicing…..
Read more
@word (#28). Of course, Bush was justified in stating that “the surge” was his decision, just as Obama was justified in stating that he gave the order for a very risky kill mission. Both used similar language in emphasizing their own respective roles in military actions. I don’t see a clear difference in style, here.
The Saddam capture was different. Saddam was simply captured in the course of military sweep operations. So, of course, this didn’t lend itself to a Presidential speech saying “I ordered.”
I am simply thinking back over the course of my life, to many past Presidents. I really don’t want to spend the time going through Google to find instances of POTUS using the terms “I ordered” and “at my direction,” but I know that this is the very typical language used by all commanders-in-chief at various times where such language is entirely appropriate.
It’s really not a big deal; in your original blog post, you acknowledged that you might, perhaps, be thinking in overly “partisan” or “sensitive” terms. That’s the way we all think, when a political opponent seems to be like a rooster, taking credit for the sun coming up in the morning (an analogy I think I recall from a Clinton quote).
@nan:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/02/us-binladen-usa-muslims-idUSTRE7416KG20110502?feedType=RSS&feedName=domesticNews
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
@openid.aol.com/runnswim: Larry it’s more than just “at my direction” and “I ordered”. I’ll have to look at the transcript again later tonight. Perhaps it’s just my partisan brain showing through; but there is something oddly different to me the way Obama injects himself into speeches that strikes me differently than other presidents.
This feels like people parsing words like tea leaves to see what they want to see. I’m sure you can find something similar in any Presidential speech. The public wants to feel that there is someone in charge and responsible for what is taking place, so the embracing of that responsibility is going to require a few “I’s” and “my’s”. Is Obama’s use of “at my direction” somehow more grandiose than this quote below from GWB in his Iraq War speech? Which quote could be more easily misconstrued as the President saying he’s personally kicking ass and taking names?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/mar/18/usa.iraq
@openid.aol.com/runnswim:
Gee, Larry, I pointed out I excluded AMERICAN Muslims.
I was looking for rejoicing about Osama’s death in the ISLAMIC world.
Blast and Larry – Fair enough, here’s Obama’s words:
@nan: So you did (qualify your statement to refer to non-Americans). There was a Canadian Muslim in the story I quoted, but I do take your point. There has been a dearth of praise and celebration emanating from the (overseas) Islamic world.
@mata (pertaining as to the role of enhanced interrogation in the killing of Bin Laden and to Obama being “lucky” that he didn’t actually close Gitmo, as promised):
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42863247/ns/world_news-death_of_bin_laden/
@mata (addendum): Some others are more willing to give some credit, where credit is due:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2011/05/rush-limbaugh-on-bin-ladens-death-thank-god-for-president-obama.html
– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA
Larry, pray tell where did I *not* give Obama credit for following thru? What I said was some was credit, some was dumb luck because of the role that Gitmo played in the merry chase of leads (you can’t discount information they gleaned that eventually led to today’s event), and that depending on what happens with Pakistan for going in rogue (if they did) will determine if the price to kill one leftover figurehead in the current global war on terror was worth it.
Perhaps you are taking the liberty of requalifying your notion of torture for political reasons. Technically, only three Gitmo detainees were waterboarded. However the inhumane treatment for “extreme interrogations” was expanded to events like sleep deprivation and loud music for long hours as well. It’s unlikely that where the information was gleaned was one of those three. However it’s a moment of political convenience for you to consider that detainee was talking because he was treated fondly, and fed gourmet cuisine. And yes… this did originate from a Gitmo detainee, and ran thru the various sources to arrive at the conclusion. Disingenuous to discount that first thread of evidence in the chain.
I think I qualified my opinions as to where Obama behaved in a manner in which I’m proud, and where I think he just fell down the right rabbit hole. As to the wisdom of the operation as it relates to Pakistan, we’ll just have to wait and see.
And yes, he is extremely vain on this stuff. You pick out a combination of one phrase, and pronounce them equal. His statement was 24 paragraphs long, if you include the God Bless America closing. A total of 1384 words. It took until the 19th and 20th paragraphs before he even got around to acknowledging either the intel operatives and the Seals… a pathetic 93 words, stashed near the end of his face time.
In contrast to a man who I believe held more genuine respect and regard for the military he commanded, Dubya, consider his 26 paragraphs – 1816 words – he did on the carrier. In the opening carrier, he announced that the troops prevailed in deposing Saddam. Paragraphs 2, 3, 4 and 5 were dedicated totally to the performance of the military… not him as the commander. The last three paragraphs before the God Bless America ending were dedicated to both the troops who gave their lives, and the sailors who were headed home after the longest deployment in recent history for a naval carrier. A total of 621 words dedicated to troops. His use of “I”, and “me” was sparse, replaced with “we” and “our”.
Over a third of Bush’s speech was dedicated to those who were under his command. Obama’s a big 6%.
But it’s more than just the amount of focus and words. My suggestion is you read thru Bush’s speech, then go read Obama’s speech again. The contrast between the thrust and focus of the two are miles apart. One is quite fitting for a man who, tho demonized, was unabashedly warm towards our military. The other is also fitting for a cold fish, who puts self above all else…. considering credit for those who carry the heavy load merely an afterthought.
Nan G: I’m not “rejoicing” either. And I’m not a Muslim. So what does that mean?
Truth be told, I was somewhat taken aback by the cheering and fuferah in the streets. Something about it eerily reminded me of those cheering death in the streets after Sept 11. It’s not that I equate the two by any means. UBL was scum that, were he standing before me, I would have pulled a trigger without a moment of regret or hesitation. Despite that, I just don’t find anyone’s death something to celebrate. Perhaps a relief they no longer walk the planet and wreaking havoc, but I’d say rejoicing goes way beyond my particular emotions.
here’s my take runn/swim I’m a Vietnem vet-TL for a LRRP team I was involved in a few BODY SNATCHES in my 2 tours. Many rehearsals for one grap (Seal team 6-2 rehearsals, 12 men in a fortified compound ????) If I was given a warning order to KILL HO CHI MINH, I’d use a SNIPER, not endanger 12 men PERIOD !!!!! they knew were he was hiding since Aug 2010-and no SNIPER ????? Remember one thing “You always want to keep it as clean as possible” SNIPER does it all the time. Example***2 pirates shot dead-hostage and one pirate live in the bobbing seas. NOT BAD FOR A SEAL SNIPER. It should be all on film-SHOW ME !!!!!!!! TAKE CREDIT FOR WHAT SOMEONE ELSE STARTED ??? WILL BARRRY TAKE CREDIT FOR THE DEAD AND WOUNDED FROM THE IRAQ-AFGHANISTAN WARS. You sound like the third string quarterback who comes in with 30 seconds left on the clock and throws the winning touchdown. Tell Barry to go visist the VA hospitals instead of playing golf. (Played (9) holes yesterday while HIS mission was under way. If something went wrong (“This is war and something always goes wrong”) 1 choppers goes down-was Barry trying to sink his double bogey 3 footer when his phone rang (or did it ring???) Does Sarah look more “PRESIDENTIAL” then Barry “YOUR FU@K-IN right she does!!!!!!!!!!!
Watch her tonight talk about one of her favorite subjects-THIS COUNTRY AND IT’S TROOPS
@ Aqua
I am really not sure why you want to open up this can of worms, but I will add more.
Bush: “I hear the voices, and I read the front page, and I know the speculation. But I’m the decider, and I decide what is best. And what’s best is for Don Rumsfeld to remain as the secretary of defense.”
I, I, I, I’m, I.
Honestly, this is a waste of time. Bush used I, my, etc very often. I don’t have any problem with him speaking in that manner and only have used it for illustration. But I guess in your world view you need to justify your Obama derangement syndrome.
@ Larry
Larry, I think President Obama deserves a lot of credit of this operation. He said he would not hesitate to go into Pakistan to get UBL if he had the opportunity, and he didn’t. He authorized a mission that another president might not have. I give him credit for that. A lot of credit. If he hadn’t green-lighted the mission, it wouldn’t have happened. Then again, if he hadn’t green-lighted the mission, he might as well have folded up his reelection campaign.
As for the LA Times article on Rush, were you being facetious? You need to read the article, ’cause Rush was.
@blast, you suffer from the same parsing problem as Larry. See above. Contrast the speeches. If you were the man on the ground, which POTUS put you and your service up front, and which one made you the afterthought in the last paragraphs.
Take your pick. As to your final assessment, I personally don’t care. I don’t like this POTUS – personally or policy wise. He is an embarrassment to me as leader of the free world. However he occasionally does something right. Sometimes by accident, sometimes because he really does, and sometimes by peer pressure. And when he does, I give him credit.
@jerseyflash
You say use a sniper. ummm… and you know this was the appropriate strategy based upon your intimate knowledge of this compound? From what they have presented in the news, the compound was behind high walls with no windows facing out of the facility. Plus, how would you secure the body? You know the world is waiting on pics of Bin Laden dead… so we needed the body.
@jerseyflash: You are on target my man.
@blast:
For Pete’s sake! Bush was discussing Donald Rumsfield…..who served at HIS discretion….what other word(s) would Bush use?
And Obama is Still an embarrassment…..I’ll echo Mata here…
@MataHarley
Maybe you have amnesia mata, you just asked earlier ” do provide us with those “me me, I, I, my, my” instances of Dubya. Do you need a few weeks, months, years? ”
If you want me to look at more speeches, forget it… it is a waste of time. (I did reference Bush’s speech for the war with Afghanistan which is sufficient), both men use I, me, my, etc in their speeches and in public comments.
Honestly, you have to realize this is a bullshit issue… so why even raise it? Oh, yeah, you will be grudgingly applaud the president while diminishing the accomplishment. Why not just say thank you and be on your way. I doubt the REAL Americans who spontaneously came out last night to the WH and in NYC were thinking about this bull shit.
@MataHarley:
You actually mirror my personal feeling, Mata.
I never rejoice in the death of anyone, good or evil.
BUT in America and the Western cultures we have a tradition of free expression that allows such displays without fear of retribution.
In Islamic countries that is NOT so.
Take a look at this photo essay.
It has photos from American and Islamic countries as folks react to Osama’s death.
One thing stands out: Americans are FREE to express themselves openly.
Note Americans some were prayerful, not joyful.
Muslims IN MUSLIM LANDS do not seem free to do the same, even when they – individually – are happy about the death.
Represented in photos are:
Egypt,
Indonesia,
Iraq,
Jordan,
Kenya,
Pakistan,
Gaza (Or West Bank),
Yemen.
Small groups not often even openly happy.
Parts of my family had lived under Soviet rule when you had to read between the lines of Pravda.
And, even when you knew something really good happened (IOW, anti-Soviet) you had to play ”the game” in public.
Supposedly Muslims would be happy the world is rid of Muslim-killer, Osama.
Obama said as much.
But there is no open jubilation.
Just odd.
@blast:
The REAL Americans?? Honestly, the clips I saw were mostly college kids nearing their curfew. It was little too ‘spontaneous’, and a little too enthusiastic. I had dejavu of Obama’s campaign clips from the last election….
@Esdraelon, LOL. Yeah. Real Americans… oh, I forgot only real Americans are burning effigies of Obama, and searching for birth certificates.
@blast, below is a drawing of the Bin Laden compound, as appearing in Pakistan’s The Dawn publication. Various walls ranged from 7 to 18 feet in height. I’ve also read there were indeed a few windows towards the entrance, tho not many.
The reports have been varying, tho. I’m not sure the press knows what’s going on yet. I’ve heard it was actually done a week ago. Others say Sunday because weather was prohibitive on Saturday (Obama supposed did his “direction” on Friday, the Royal Wedding day).
Also, Obama nixed the bombing of the compound for your aforementioned “the body” bit. But we, the peons of the world, don’t have “a body”, do we? What we have is the word of our troops. Frankly, I’m inclined to believe them. But there’s sure no smoking gun to present to the world.
I don’t think that will stop the UBL grieving followers tho. Intel has been so heavy on UBL since Sept 11th, there was little he could do without us hearing something, somewhere. The radar did go dark.. about the time he was getting his compound built, coincidently.
Since he was more a figure head than an active terrorist in the past 9.5 years, he is more useful to them as a martyr than an alive, pampered has-been terrorist, living in a compound.
Larry, update to my Obama speech stats. I missed the 10th paragraph, where he commended with 25 more words. This puts him up to 119 words, or 8% of his speech, starting just before halfway in for the first 25 word mention.
ooooo wheeeeee…. there’s a grateful CiC. What an azzz….
@blast:
?
Where have you seen Obama burned in effigy? Care to post a link?
Searching for birth certificates? All I can say is that Trump was the only one at a high level to make an issue of the birth certificate and lit a fire under Obama’s tail, who, to negate it as an ‘issue’, then put out a ‘birth certificate’ that has been shown to have been altered in it’s entirety…..but that’s another discussion.
@ Tom, Every Commander at Every level must be prepared to accept Personal Responsibility for Every Command, Order or Action that His Subordinates undertake and accept Responsibility for whatever Happens or fails to Happen. It comes with the Job. However, giving Credit for Success to Those that accomplished the desired outcome and took the Personal Risks is Leadership of a Higher Level.
IE, Career Military that do the Operation risk more than Career Politicians or Temporary Residents of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. They risk their Lives, not their Elected Office. That is my POV. A little humility is in order here and a large measure of gratitude. JFK expressed both after the Bay of Pigs. Carter expressed little after the failed rescue attempt, Operation Eagle Claw.
The success of the Mission is 100% the achievement of SOCOM and JSOC. Anything that looks good on paper is just on paper until the plan is executed. There lies the difference.