In 1994 Mr. Conservative himself, Mr. Republican, Barry Goldwater, said:
“You don’t have to like it, but gay people deserve full constitutional rights including marriage and service in the Military.”
He said it in Phoenix — after he had come to terms with his gay grandson. Just like every family with a gay child has had to deal with the reality of a gay child. Just like my family came to reality about me. I can imagine it cannot be easy. But if there’s one thing Conservatives deal with, it’s reality. And for better or worse, gay folks are real. Of this we are sure, even if you are not. So real that our tiny minority — what? maybe 5% of the population? — has brought about a national debate by first convincing our mothers, or some other sympathetic family member, that we’re just OK, but different. By simply begging, almost literally, for acceptance, understanding and guidance. My father was a Goldwater Republican, and in this regard, his apple did not fall far from the tree. But he sure doens’t think I’m against him. I even wrote a book with him.
Being gay is not a political position. This debate is not an American debate. It’s happening in every country on earth. It’s because regardless of the culture, the religion, the race, or any other factor in our Babel of a world, no more than 5% of the people are insistently gay. There’s not just gay parades here, but in nearly every country on earth. Even in Moscow; though there the police still wade in with batons to beat us. And what determination we must have to try to organize gay parades in such places as Malaysia, Egypt and even Iran! But if we’re 5% of the world’s population, we’re some 350,000,000 people. How is this possible if it’s not natural? How could so many “choose,” so independently of each other, to be gay? And to “choose” means we must have somehow turned off our “natural” heterosexuality. How is this possible? How can we turn off “instinct”?
We have this determination because we simply are gay. We don’t know why; neither do you. You “believe” you know, but there’s too much opinion on why for anyone to “know.” Though we gay folks all know it an an extraordinarily young age. Not a gay guy I know — and I dare say I know considerably more than any reader here — does not have the same story. Somewhere, within the first inklings of puberty, we knew it. Virtually all of us say it was roughly between 8 and 12 years old. We just knew. And no one had to teach us what to do. And there are certainly no fairy tales for, um, fairies. Then the problem became how to deal with it, and anyone around us who found out. An even bigger problem was to figure out if there was anyone else around who felt as we did. For we all come to this conclusion ourselves, with no one to ever talk to about it. And you all get heaps and gobs of support. And you wonder why we have trouble with relationships?
We can’t just have dreamed this up and decided to “fight” society for the rest of our lives. There must be more to it. However, right now, just like I was 10 when I realized it, though didn’t have a word for it, there is another 10 year old boy coming to his realization. There is no “cure” for this reality. We are not recruiting these boys. At most we seek to protect them from bullying and to leave them a better America in which to grow up in. Just like you do for your kids. We’d prefer to call it mentoring. Though we’re pretty clueless about how to do it. We have begged the nation for guidance on this issue, but it’s often still way too dangerous to broach.
Many of you think the gay rights movement — or as I like to call it — “Rights for gays” — started in 1969. Or some time even later. But actually it started in the early 1950s in Chicago. A handful of gay folks formed a group called “The Friends of Dorothy.” They published a few hundred mimeographed fliers and handed them out. The nation was so fearful of us at the time, so against us, that the FBI spent over one year and a million dollars searching for “Dorothy.” How they did not know she was a fictional character in a classic movie we don’t know. We giggle about it to this day. But that was when we began begging for the culture war against us to cease. The one riot we had was 20 years later. It was our “shot heard round the world.” It was our moment of extremism in the defense of our liberty. Then we got back to begging.
But we have not attacked family, church or culture. We have begged for acceptance of our kind. We have begged our families, our churches, and we have begged this culture for a shred of humanity and understanding. We have achieved much. We beg, and many call it attack, which leaves us puzzled, even angry. I’d say more than half the nation has now realized that we are simply a harmless bunch of misfits. The least of God’s creatures, perhaps, but His children too. We are merely the pink sheep in His flock. Perhaps it would help if you imagine on us the autism scale. Something went awry in our brain wiring. There’s no way around the reality, however, that here we are. And we have no where else to go. But we are not fighting you, we are begging for a bit of mollycoddling. Which is something we don’t really get.
We do not expect anyone to come to some love-fest with us overnight. We, especially we, know the difficulties of the issue we present; though it’s not really our issue. It’s the issues you have with us. We’re somewhat self-conflicted with our calls for “Accept us, Include us, Ignore us,” true. We’re as coherent as the TEA Party in a lot of ways. No leader, no organization, just a determination to make a better America. Which includes us. But we’re extraordinarily comfortable with ourselves. We just don’t really think about it at all.
I can liken it to this: when you all are strolling through a park on a sunny afternoon hand in hand and espy a rose, and stop to smell, and have a romantic smooch you are accepted, included and ignored. It’s just a loving couple doing what comes natural. Right? But we dare not do this. Even though we pay taxes at the same rate as you do for the parks we cannot yet stroll through hand in hand, smell a rose and smooch. If the taxation is equal, should not the enjoyment of the parks bought be equal too? And all else too? We pay the same, give us the same.
But I can tell you this: at least half my gay friends are as conservative as you all, except on the gay thing obviously. And in these perilous times our nation faces, to argue incessantly over a tiny portion of the country is pointless. Do you really want to debate this DOMA thing for the next 10 or 15 years? We don’t, but we will if we have to. For it is true, marriage, even by a name special for us, is a Conservative value. We want to settle down, we’re still begging for help in doing it. For we never received guidance on how to have relationships; indeed, some say it’s impossible, all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding. Help us find our prince charming, that’s what we beg of you, too.
And to chase away potential voters, and our parents and friends too, is simply not a way to resurrect the greatness of this nation. We are simply too unimportant to fight over. But we’re all too real. And we vote, mostly for whomever will bear us no malice. The Liberals were good at that, hoodwinking us, but too many of us have woken up to the chicanery of the Left. Most polling data indicate that upwards of 30% of gay folks vote Republican. I know I have, consistently, for decades. What can you do to win the rest of us?
And I can also tell you at least half my friends are rooting for Sarah Palin. It’s a simple reason really, besides the political stuff. She has a son who is different, and we pray to God Almighty that she will have the wisdom to realize we’re just sons who are different too. And then put a stop to this debate about us. Let my people go, and get back to the debt, the deficit, the unions, repealing ObamaCare and the rest.
Perhaps the nation should set up a National Commission on Gay Americans — and move all this debate to it. And figure us out. Just don’t forget to include us in the discussion. A discussion I really just hate having, as I’m sure you’re all tired of having it too. But that’s what happens when 5% of the nation with nothing to lose begs for sixty years. It was beg, or continue with the police raids on our bars. Eventually you started listening. We might be less than rugged individuals — but don’t you just marvel at our fortitude? Do we not get two points for that at least? Our fortitude comes because we are sure God is on our side.
You know, Jesus said: walk a mile in another man’s shoes before you condemn him. Walk but a block in mine and it will open your eyes.
And He said: treat others as you want to be treated. We have done so, mostly by begging.
He also said, “Turn the other cheek.” And that too we have done. That’s our getting up to beg again after we’ve been knocked down again.
We have simply been begging God to change the hard hearts against us. For sixty years. Please don’t make us beg for another sixty. I beg you.
@retire05:
I’ve hashed it out before, over the years, more than once on this very site. Sorry, I just don’t feel like engaging you by repeating what I’ve already taken the time to type. Check the archives, sir. You’ll find it if you want to. I’m pretty sure none of it will make a difference in your views, so I’ll accept you for who you are. Doesn’t mean I want to deal with you.
Cary, if you are too lazy to link what you have said previously, that seems to be your problem, not mine.
Accept me for what I AM? What the hell does that mean? Or is that a lame attempt at a slur toward me because I don’t buy into Jim’s whining, pitiful victimhood where the rest of the world is against him and his “folks”?
You are free to accept Jim’s whining and irrelevant comments. Have at it. He is simply like the welfare mom who demands her right to have as many children as she wants but wants the rest of us to support those children. They’re both victims in their own minds.
@retire05:
Yes. You are correct. The fact that I don’t wish to take the time to write specifically to you, what you can easily find already written on this site – makes ME lazy! And it IS totally my problem that I’d rather spend my time doing something more productive than engage your hostility any further than this reply. I mean, come on, it’s Oscar night!
Not only do I accept Jim’s article, I have been clear to commend it. You’ve been equally clear that you don’t, and I accept that.
Thanks again, Jim, for a great article.
To all gays who want to be married, I can only say two things:
“Go for it.”
“Be careful what you wish for.”
Jim, we all have desires. No sin in being tempted. Big sin in acting on our immoral desires. So don’t tell me you are one of God’s children by having sex with other men. That act is a mortal sin and will condemn you to eternal damnation if you die believing that it OK because you were born “gay”. Just as a heterosexual will be damned for adultery or other sins of the flesh. As long as you are saying homosexual acts are OK [and promoting it] you are a child of the Devil, not the Lord. I’ll pray you see the difference and act accordingly.
@10:
You may have a strong religious argument, albeit one which MY faith doesn’t allow me to share…
However, the Constitution expressly forbids the law to take any preference towards one religion over another. Many faiths, even denominations within the Christian religion, support equal treatment for gay people.
So while you may have strong convictions, and truly believe that you are speaking for God – they CANNOT be applied to the laws of this nation. They are separate arguments.
I appreciate your civility, history has no political party.
Jim gets defensive, to be honest; I’m not interested in drama queen stuff and Old Trooper told me to quit with the vitriol, I’m not gonna argue with you or jim, so let’s just leave it at this. I’m gonna go for a run, then to church. Read & form your own opinion on the subject, and have a nice day.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/the-daily-
show-uncovers-the-nazis-secret-gay-past/
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/column/72054-oxymorons-gay-nazi-gay-aryan-gay-supremacist/
http://hubpages.com/hub/Ernst-Rohm-The-Gay-Nazi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Röhm
http://www.conservapedia.com/Homosexuality_in_Nazi_Germany
http://www.whale.to/b/rohm_h.html
@Zac:
Thank you. I’m not interested in arguing with you, either. But I do appreciate your input, and will will peruse your links probably tomorrow, as today is getting ready for the Oscars! I’m always up for learning a bit more about history. Hope to hear more from you.
10, while I do think that Jim and his “folks” violate all that is normal, my argument is not based on the laws of Nature’s God, but on nature itself.
The human being was designed to procreate and flourish. Jim, when he has sex with his male partner, violates the laws of nature. But even so, if that is the way he chooses to lead his life, that is his right. What is not his right is to ask the rest of society to accept, as normal, his behavior.
Jim is dishonest. He makes the claim that there is no “political” gay agenda, but there is. Just because he doesn’t participate in that lobby, doesn’t mean he doesn’t subscribe to its goals. And his argument is based on emotion and past history, because to be honest would mean that he would have to admit that the gay community does, in fact, have an agenda that extends past just being allowed to act in the privacy of his own home as he chooses.
Cary, if you wanted to make a point, you should be willing to lead me to your past statements and not just say “Look them up.” Yes, that is lazy. And if you think I care about “Oscar night”, you would be dead wrong. I have no interest in a bunch of self-indulgent, overpaid, under talented hacks patting themselves on the back saying “Look at how great we are.”
@ retire05
I am sure there are plenty of active duty military that may have issues with gays serving, but not 95%. When I served, I suspected one of my Marines might be gay, and knew the corpsman who was part of my squad was gay, but he did not advertise it, but he did not hide the fact he had a partner. In fact he had his FMF and participated in MCMAP, probably green belt or higher. He was really moto. In either case I could care less what ones sexuality is, as long as they did their job I was not worried, even when I dropped the soap in the shower. I think many younger people care even less since the stigma about gay people is less. Both of the guys I mentioned served at least one tour in Iraq and deserve our appreciation for their service as much as anyone.
@retire05:
My initial point was to compliment Jim on his post, and to point out that people, such as yourself, who feel the way you do, will always exist. If I wished to take the time to refute anything in your comments, I would’ve responded directly to you.
As for what is “natural” – homosexuality is found all over nature. It is my personal theory that nature provides homosexuals for the purpose of attempting to control overpopulation, without sacrificing the individual intimacy humans need. I have no figures, studies, or facts to back that up, it is just my opinion. Homosexual relations would be unnatural to you, for certain, and thus wrong for you to engage in. You wouldn’t feel right. Same goes on the small percentage of people on the flip side.
As for the Oscars, I don’t assume you’re interested. I was being facetious in an effort to lighten things up a bit. I’ll be watching, but I hold little stock in who wins. I remember great movies, not who wins awards. Personally, I think competition is more for athletes than artists. And the Yankees are beating the Phillies right now 6 to zero! That puts me in a really GOOD mood!
blast, reread what I posted. I never claime that it bothered the 95%. I said that the 5% didn’t stop to think about how the 95% felt. There is a difference. And suspecting a fellow soldier is gay is a hellofa lot different than knowing they are. Being on base is a lot different that being at some FOB in Iraq. It was the Marine’s who were deployed that objected to the repeal of DADT.
But it makes no difference. The repeal of DADT was political (you know the political agenda Jim claims doesn’t exist) and nothing more. And because of that repeal, there will be unintended consequences. Let me give you an example: if Jim is honest (which he’s not) he would admit that many young men don’t accept being gay until they are in their early 20’s. By then, they are already enlisted. Now, before the repeal of DADT, if that young man found out that he was not suited to military life, he could out himself to his C.O. and get out. Now he can’t, so he’s stuck for four years in a life that makes him unhappy. Gays had a way out of the military and that door has now been slammed shut.
DADT worked. It allowed gays to serve (honorably) but still maintain their privacy. But that was not enough for the gay lobby. You see, that is simply another example that gays put their sexuality before anything else, including their oath. And those who knew they were gay before entering the military were fully aware of the DADT rules as in the papers given to them by a recruiter, out of 7 pages, 3 were devoted to DADT. They agreed to the terms when enlisting, but like everything with the gay movement, when they are allowed one step, they demand ten more.
I don’t judge all gays by Jim. He is nothing but a spoiled brat who wants everyone to feel sorry for him and his perceived persecution complex. As a matter of fact, Jim is NOT representative of the gays I know, and love.
Cary, if you want to compliment Jim on his whining diatribe, feel free.
I can only assume that my standards are higher than yours. I think a person should make an argument from facts, not emotions.
@retire05:
Assume away!
@retire05: Mr. Retire or Mrs. Retire 05 — I have been unfailingly polite to you — I have endeavored to present a case here that is not often heard, rarely indeed. And instead of treating me as you would want to be treated, you continue with adhominem personal attacks by calling me a “whiner” and “a child” and such. We sir or madam, if you hadn’t just kept beating us silly, well, perhaps we would not whine so much. If you’d all stop accusing of us horrendous crimes against, or attacking or destroying family, kids, society, people, civilization and God Himself then perhaps we wouldn’t whine so much that it’s not only arrant nonsense not backed by a shred of evidence, but is in a way a sort of “delusional whining.” It has been continuous all my life, nothing you say is new under the sun. What I said, ah, a bit different eh?
I do not claim to have any answers on the issue — I merely pointed out that this is a senseless debate. A debate that will continue until you call come to a conclusion. Heterosexuals are the ones confused about us, with divers theories and endless recitation of “fact” that seems to revolve around never actually meeting with or talking to a gay guy.
If we’re crazy — fine, why are we pummeled for being crazy? I even pointed out in my article — put us on the autism spectrum, crazy as we are. If our mother’s or father’s fault — why pick on us? Since when is there a shred of humanity in picking on crazy people? Every other “crazy” gets mollycoddling and assistance. Gay folks get condemnation and accusation, even threats of our cultural or physical elimination by some rather busy and powerful people. And in that way we’re a “special” crazy indeed.
@retire05: You have spent hours calling me “whiny” and complaining about my very existence and the threat you feel we gay folks cause to everything. Again, whom is “fact” and whom is “emotion” fixated?
But, I do thank you for your vivid take on the issue, for collected together it’ quite a good start for a novel, being the mostly fiction that it is.
@Cary: Cary — thanks — and to all the other folks who appreciated at least a different take on this issue, even if not in agreement, open minds willing to listen are half the battle.
As for the Oscars — well, I’m way too rednecky for those. I’ve never watched them. I don’t even go to movies — no gay folks in ’em. And I’m not into paying good money to watch soft core hetero stuff which seems to be the obligatory in the bed scene in every movie produced, in between the endless violence. You can’t even have the Terminator come through to destroy the world without a few minutes romp.
And I don’t own a TV either.
In fact, I’m a fairly uncultured slob of a guy. And thanks for letting me know the Yankees were beating the Phillies. I’d much prefer watching a football or baseball came, or going fishing, or hiking, or working in the garden to virtually any thing in the modern over-sexed culture.
@ retire, I understood you did not mean everyone in the military was in favor of DADT, but I did state that there was a corpsman who was gay and we all knew it, and we were in Iraq, it made no difference. He still did his job and no one wanted him kicked out. When I said he did not advertise I was meaning, it was not a conversation we had, but he had a picture of his partner with him, and I bet some of his closer buddies probably knew more. He was respected for his ethic of work. I am not sure if DADT made for an honorable choice, it really meant people had to lie, which is not a corp value.
The overall debate on this is over my head since I did not really pay much attention to it. I just think there could be a generational issue more than a true operational issue. I respect your position of being retired and having made your contribution to our society, but maybe some things have changed.
@Jim Hlavac:
That’s partially why Casablanca is such a perfect movie.
But you’d HATE the screenplay I’m writing! I thought your website said you’re a piano player… am I mistaken? I wouldn’t call that uncultured.
oh, and the Yankees won! 7 to 3. And the Phillies have the strongest roster in the MLB. I know these spring training games don’t count, but it makes me much more optimistic about my team, with the weak links in our rotation.
Jim, perhaps you should reread your original post. Even in your lede, you talk how you are “begging” for something? Ah, poor Jim, reduced to “begging” from all us evil, inconsiderate, hateful, bigotted “heteros”. Not once did I call you a name, although you referred to yourself as a “fairy”. You group me in with everyone who has ever beaten a gay, although I have never done that. You present your sad tale of woe as if there were hordes of “heteros” roaming the streets of the U.S. looking for a gay to bash and beat up.
Like with other claims you make, you say it is not the gays against the church, but the very opposite. Yet, when questioned about the Sisters of Perpepual Indulgence, you simply ignore the inconvenient and move on to some other irrevelent, whining, stupid statement. It’s what you do best.
Make no mistake, I am not confused about you. Not one damn bit. You are a queer, and you are making excuses about your pathetic life. If you were truely content with what you are, you would not have to make excuses and try to paint “heteros” as the people who are oppressing you and not giving your spoiled little ass what you want.
The only thing fiction here is your persecution complex. Do you really think I care if you are taking it in the rear for butch fireman? I don’t. I just don’t care to know about your private life, so while you are writing that fiction that your persecution complex is, be sure to look up the meaning of “private”. And I have a title for you: The Petulant Child, for that is exactly what you are. Buy then, I guess if you are 52, all hopes of you ever being a mature adult is long past.
And may I suggest you don’t think that any book you write where you whine like a petulant child will gain any cash in your bank account. Grimm beat you to the punch.
Hey, is retire-05 a reference to a rank?
@retire05: Sir, if sex were only for reproduction might I assume that if you had three children you had sex but three times? It’s a wonder they developed all those, um, enhancing pills, since it’s certainly not to reproduce anything more than another roll in the hay that will produce no child.
And we gay folks are well aware that it does indeed seem to be “against” nature — but I contend it’s a brain wiring disorder, brought about by the simple reality that males get an X-female set of DNA, and a Y-male set of DNA — and well, something flipped the wrong switch. Why don’t you seek that? Instead of just quoting your “beliefs” that it cannot be true — for when all evidence shows it is true and real and you keep saying you believe it not to be true and real I simply don’t know what to say. But to not even consider any other evidence other than what you “know” is theocracy. And have you ever seen a room full of sissies and flimsy flighty effeminate gay men? Do you think those guys are faking it? Really? Paul Linde and Charles Nelson Riley faked it for decades? That sir is acting worthy of far more than an Oscar!
Might I remind you of the long held belief that the center of the universe was Earth and all else revolved around it. It was a Church held belief indeed, which could not ever be questioned, for faith “Knew” and the rest was “Against Faith.” As the evidence mounted against the Earth Centric view the “Believers” went into overtime to condemn the scientists. Meanwhile, Brahe, Kepler, Copernicus, Gallileo and many others either tried to fit the observable reality into the belief system it just became scientifically unsustainable. The “believers” tried for centuries to quell the science of observable fact. And so it is with gay folks. You have belief, even a dash of logic based on belief. But you have no evidence. And there’s just oh, 300 too 350 million gay men and woman around the world that does call into question the “belief” and all but cries out for the science to resolve the issue.
But let me assure — there will never be more than 5% of us — there never has been, never will be. That’s it, it’s real, that’s what you get. You can believe it or not, accept it or not, deal with it or not. It’s your right and choice.
Meanwhile, we pay taxes by the hundreds of billions to the governments at every level to continue a sort of a theocracy against us, while you all live in a free Republic. And that cannot stand.
And sir, as for what some dozens of gay political groups do, and what 10 to 15 million gay men think or believe, you do give me extraordinary powers to be able to keep track of it all. And frankly I’m just too busy trying to pay bills, call the family, maintain the house, and all the many other things that involve the vaunted “gay lifestyle” — like, you know, eating, trips to stores, and the absolute most important — cleaning the house and doing the laundry. Who has time to keep track of millions of people’s thoughts? I certainly don’t. So don’t impart to me any great wisdom on the matter. Why, I haven’t gotten a flier from a gay group in years, nor have I ever had a subscription to Genre, Advocate or any other gay themed publication. And from 1999 to 2009 I simply never spent more than three or four months in any city on my strange commute between Prague — across Europe, to NYC, to FL, to La. to Phoenix, then to Mazatlan Mexico and back again to Prague — and back again. I simply removed myself from politics and it’s consideration. I went piano playing and castle viewing. And you know what they say in Prague, we gay folks? “jsme” We are. And in Mexico? “somos” We are.
I marvel at your ability to project on to me what you think I should know, what I should think, believe, say, or be for or against. You seem to be more deeply embedded into my mind than Heather, or her two mommies were ever in any school on earth.
blast, when you know the rules of the game, and agree to them, then decide half way through that you want those rules changed to suit you, that is dishonest. DADT was initiated in 1993. There are few gays in the military who did not enter AFTER DADT was initiated. So, either they lied and said they would adhere to the rules, or they decided they wanted the rules changed to suit them. Take your pick. They joined knowing the rules. But like our resident whiner, Jim, rules are just for others, not the gay community.
Listen Jim, if you are going to accuse me of “projection”, you need to first apologize for lumping me in with people who have beaten gays. But as ususal, you want to write the rules to suit you. And again, you never address that which is inconvenient to you. No surprise there. All you know how to do is whine, oh, and brag about your travels. WHO GIVES A SHIT? I certainly don’t. And you can “contend” there is a brain wiring problem with you and your “folks”, but you have no proof of that, anymore than you can prove there is a gay “gene”. It is simply an opinion of yours, not substantiated by any proof.
You have made a fool of yourself, but you are too shallow to admit when you have. You have NOT ONCE addressed anything I have ever said, you simply revert back to whining. Yeah, you are a pansy. Not an adult who can debate an issue with any intellect. Nothing but emotion.
I feel sorry for you. I really do. You are not content with your life or you would not have to play the victim. You would simply go on with your life, not bringing your sexuality into the conversation. But being gay consumes you, like a cancer of the mind. It is all you have. And for that, you have my pity.
Now, feel free to come back with some other useless comment. It is what you excel in.
@Jim Hlavac: Good grief Jim, we get it, you’re gay. Now, can we please get back to the more urgent problem of government intrusion?
@Jim Hlavac:
I have to part with you that opinion. Mental Health professionals, by and large, have long abandoned that theory.
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_mental_health.html
@KansasGirl:
I actually agree with you. A person’s sexuality shouldn’t matter, as it has no bearing on their contribution or character. Glad we’re on the same page here.
@retire05: You are a most gracious man or woman Retire05 in your attacking anger at me. You decry the discussion and spend hours on it. And you’re the very sort who just makes us giggle beyond tomorrow; thanks for the comedy. You, like the FBI in the 1950s, is still looking for Dorothy. And we only want you to find heart, mind and courage, somewhere over the rainbow, or in OZ, or in Kansas for all I care. And you treat me and my kind as some sort of modern day Lepers — and even Jesus wouldn’t put up with Leper-bashing.
I don’t know if you fly anywhere, Retire05, but if you do, take a good look at the male flight attendant. Watch him carefully as he sashays down the aisle with your coffee. Observe him lock the cockpit door against the true enemies of this nation. But do be careful with the anti-gay stuff, for if there’s an “unlikely event” I dare say you might be the last one rescued by the evil gay man there with an agenda to destroy society, as soon as he gets everyone down the slides to safety.
Ever been to Disneyland? Do you think there’s a heterosexual man in the Doofy outfits or any other?
Ever been to mainline Protestant churches? Virtually 80 percent of the organists are gay men. The Organ Guild only meets in cities with a good gay bar selection. I know, I have too many church organ friends to confirm it.
Ever check in at a Ramada or Marriott, or such, and see the slight thin flimsy man there checking you in?
Ever been to a Broadway Show or any Little Theater nationwide? How many of those guys do you think are straight?
Or how about to a SuperCuts where some flamer named Ralph is busy cutting hair of every boy brought in and the fathers sit reading a magazine not giving a hoot.
You mentioned Houston Tex, are you not aware that the 4th largest city in America has a lesbian mayor? “Married” for twenty years?
Have you bought flowers for your wife at some florist run by a gay guy? Whom do you think Lance and Joe are down at the Gardenia Palace or some such?
Who designs your clothes? And who does the interiors of many a house in this nation?
Finally, for I do have to return to my duties taking care of an 88 year old WWII war vet, gay as a goose, then and now. He helped win the war against the Nazis by being told to play piano in the officers club —
How on earth can you go through the day in good conscience, knowing, as you do, that gay folks are an evil abominable threat to all that is good — without interacting with a gay guy? It’s nigh on impossible.
But, none are so blind as those who will not see. I want to be a cordial fellow citizen, and I dare say you are out to get me one way or the other. A charming fellow you are. God Bless you sir.
I found this moments ago: Now, this is a man I would truly like to hear more from:
“When we talk about same-sex marriage, we talk about something that is already legal in one form or another in basically twelve states. So whether they call it marriage, as they do in a few states, or marriage-lite as they have now in twelve states, the reality is that a good number of Americans are living where they’re already facing not just the inevitably, but the reality of same-sex marriage. I think it’s clear that something like same-sex marriage – indeed, almost exactly what we would envision by that – is going to become normalized, legalized, and recognized in the culture. It’s time for Christians to start thinking about how we’re going to deal with that.” – Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, speaking on a Focus On The Family radio show.
Nothing says Christian Goodness than a reasonable, facing reality, and wondering rationally how to deal with it. Mr. Retire05, and others, perhaps you should talk to Mr. Mohler, who I doubt is a whiny twerp like me. He’s perhaps the very sort of man who could be of use to the National Commission on Gay Americans as I propose would help quell this too big of a debate over too tiny a portion of the country.
Judas Priest, Jim, can you post anymore irrevelant crap? Do I know about flight attendants? Yeah, one of my kids was a FA for Continental. Patient Zero was a flight attendant. Most of the gay guys were sissies that were shown up by their “hetero” female counterparts. So explain to the rest of us; what did your post have anything to do with? The simple fact that gays are in all fields and careers? OH, SHOCK. Are you planning on taking over the world? Should I be worried? When are you going to invade Cuba and make all the “heteros” leave? Do you have enough little rickity boats for them?
And yeah, I am a cordial person. That is until someone is trying to unload a bunch of crap on me. Then I am not so cordial. You see, Jim, I have no tolerance bullshit. And that is exactly what EACH AND EVERYONE of your posts have been. Just so much bullshit.
“How on earth can you go through the day in good conscience, knowing, as you do, that gay folks are an evil abominable threat to all that is good – without interacting with a gay guy?”
What gives you the right to put words in my mouth except that you are a sniveling little weasel? You know, as does everyone who has read this thread, that I have not said anything even remotely resembling your statement. You are simply a liar who has no legitimate argument so you make shit up. You are truely pathetic.
As to my interaction with a gay guy? My son is gay, you stupid shit. And had you been paying attention, and not concentrating on playing the victim, you would have understood that. But you, in your self centered little world, only address what you want to address which is not one damn thing of value. How do you think I know that you don’t speak for gays. You only speak for yourself, pathetic as you are.
And true to form, I fully expect you to come back with some post that is equally as useless as everything you have posted so far.
So funny, the male florists in my ‘hood are heterosexual, and most of my close friends who are on Broadway are straight! The bartender at my local sports bar is lesbian, and my personal trainer at the gym is gay! Stereotypes aside, one is likely to encounter at least one gay person every single day, whether they know it or not. But it doesn’t serve anyone to assume that someone is one sexual preference or another, based on their occupation or profession.
Why am I not surprise that you would support the statements of someone who agrees with you? But tell me, why must Christianity, and Christians, change to accomdate you, Jim? Do you really think you are that special? You’re not. You are just a sniveling little weasel who allows his sexuality to define him.
So here is reality, weasel: I don’t believe in changing social norms (the defination of marriage) to suit you and your “folks”. And I will spend my time and money to defeat those politicians that attempt to bring that about. You want a fight, you’ve got one. Be prepared to lose, whiney twerp.
@retire05:
I agree that taking on the victim role serves no purpose. A couple of years ago, I was walking with a close buddy who is a bit taller than me, and unintentionally walking ahead of me. When I spoke up for him to slow down, he asked why I was so far behind. I said, “You’re tall, people don’t see me down here and cut me off!”
His answer? “Don’t let them. Own your space, stand straight and be confident. MAKE them see you!”
I’ve taken his advice, and since then haven’t felt so run over on a crowded street.
@Jim Hlavac: Here it goes again. Dorothy, Oz, Kansas, the only thing left out was Toto. I do have one conclusion. Jim is the bully on this site.
@KansasGirl:
Those are gay cultural references, I don’t think they’re personally aimed at you. The Stonewall Riots started just days after Judy Garland died, and Wizard of Oz references prevail in the culture.
@Cary: Nonsense. He’s still a bully.
Well, well, well…………………can this be our Jim Hlavac? Traipse on over to this site to read all about Jim’s well traveled ego trip. It reads like a bio of someone who is trying to convince the rest of the world how wonderful he is:
About Jim Hlavac
then click on the man on the ass. Hardly the buff stud the photo at the top of this thread portrays. Actually, it is hard to tell the difference between the man and the ass. And how appropriate that he has a small boy by his side. Of course, he goes on to tell how he is taking care of an aged friend, talks about gays, his garden, travels and everything else he has talked about here.
What a loser. His own blog has no traffic so he comes over here to spew his victimhood. Poor Jim.
@retire05:
See… I was coming to agree with you on the “victimhood” stuff, and even get why Kansasgirl feels as she does, though I think she’s mistaken as to his intent with the Oz references. But this last comment is so mean spirited and personally degrading. Not sure I understand why you feel the need to do that. Particularly as you remain anonymous.
Very low, sir.
Cary, low? I’ll tell you what low is; low is equating me to people that have beat up gays. Low is trying to put words in my mouth that I never said and never even implied. Low is whining and playing the victim but when confronted with facts that can, or cannot be disputed, running from them. Low is claiming that you know what is in God’s mind when it comes to gays, when no one knows. Low is being a weasel by calling yourself “fairy” and “twerp” and then getting your Hanes all in a wad when someone calls you down on the b/s.
That is low. And for almost 24 hours Jim had sullied this board with nothing but his whining and moot statements. Yes, what I said was mean. I do not deny that. But I have had it with the “you just hate gays” bullshit Jim has put out. So forgive me if my tolerance for his b/s has reached its limits. Sometimes the only response to a guy that keeps punching you (equating me with people who beat gays and saying things I never said) is to punch back.
Like I said before, Jim is nothing but a drama queen and thank goodness, he doesn’t represent most gays. My son, who is gay would call Jim a “flamer”.
You have valid points. Rest assured that you defended yourself adequately, to the point that I saw you, and what you were attempting to communicate, in a differently light than I initially did after your first post and our initial exchange, before this point. That is why I started to attempt to re-engage you. Not that my opinion of you matters one iota, but stooping down so far doesn’t seem like the way you’d like to present yourself.
I support Jim, but that doesn’t mean I agree with much of what he says, especially when he spends a lot of rhetoric degrading HIMSELF (much like when black kids use the “N-Word”, which I also object to ), as you have pointed out.
@Cary: If you don’t agree with much of what Jim “says”, then why do you “support” him?
Cary, as I have said before, I have a gay son. He is nothing like Jim. He doesn’t whine, complain nor does he think that his private life is anyone else’s business. Every Christmas we have a big party. It includes my gay friends, as well as my straight friends. Since sexuality is not a topic of conversation, none of my straight friends know that my female firefighter friends are lesbians, they are just viewed, if anything, as career women. One is a captain and one a batallion cheif. You see, not all gays define themselves by their sexuality.
Somemost at just like anyone else of their gender when in public. The women wear make-up and the guys are all dressed to the nines in a pair of startched Wranglers (uniform of most Texans).I guess what really toasted my bread was when Jim said that he wished only gays had gotten HIV/AIDs. What a sick SOB. Why wish that heartbreak on anyone? He said that for purely political (yes, political) purposes. Maybe if he had to live with taking 30 pills a day and knowing that a simple case of the flu could jepordize his life, he would not be so cavalier.
Two things you will learn about me: I am not dishonest. If I am proven wrong, I will admit it. And when asked an honest question, I will give an honest answer. But Jim doesn’t ask questions, he makes presumptions about people he doesn’t even know because they disagree with his opinion. And feels he has the right to lump everyone together for the purpose of proving his point, then he accuses others of projection.
I have no tolerance for bullshit. None. Nor do I have any tolerance for dishonest, whining little weasels, no matter their sexual proclivity.
@KansasGirl:
I support his stance that gays should be treated equally, but don’t agree with many of his points, which I have addressed.
@retire05:
Fair enough. None of this was evident in your initial reply, which I interpreted as hostile. I’m sorry that I made my own assumptions without asking questions. I’m sure we still don’t agree on everything, but at least I have a better idea of where you’re coming from, and can empathize even if we’re not 100% on the same page.
Now, I have less than an hour to get something to eat before this meaningless show I’m looking forward to starts!
@Cary: he doesn’t want to be treated equal, he wants to be treated better.
Please, stop. 5% of the population may be career thieves, too, but that doesn’t make it acceptable. Being homosexual may or may not be a choice; I don’t know. But choosing to engage in homosexual activity is a choice; choose different (so to speak).
Gays can already get married, and both spouses can be gay, too, so long as one of them’s a man and the other’s a woman, so don’t go comparing it to obsolete prohibitions against Blacks marrying Whites; gays have been able to serve in the military for a long time, too, as long as they kept their gayness to themselves.
If gays are really just like other folks, except for the sex part, then why all the promiscuity? Shouldn’t the ideal be to be monogamous–and chaste, until in a marriage with a spouse of the opposite gender? What’s wrong with striving to meet the ideal?
This country was founded on the ideal that all were created equal. Should the fact that some of the founders had slaves mean that we should abandon the ideals upon which this country was founded?
Should the fact that some of the population is gay mean that we should abandon the ideals upon which marriage was founded?
Well folks, I feel like Matlock. He’s the TV lawyer who always comes up with evidence at the last moment, that clears his client. And the reason I asked for the opportunity to post my article here was a previous post — where I met many of you before to discuss the biggest tiny issue facing the nation. A post where charges were made against me and my kind — oh, it’s been going on for decades, this was not the first time — I have heard it since I was 15 or so, back with Anita Bryant. It’s a common refrain against gay folks — keep us from the kids — we’ll molest ’em. Sure. We’re the danger to family, to society, to everything. Sure, sure, this is the belief in so much of what has been said here and so many other places as this nation goes through the pointlessly wrenching discussion about peaceful harmless productive taxpayers who are admittedly a bit different, a little.
Anyway, today’s newspaper has an interesting article by the AP. It quotes Oregon Attorney General John Kroger, who is arguing a case about child abuse and the legalities of investigation before the US Surpreme Court — but the important thing which clears my people is this: “Mr. Kroger’s brief depicts abuse a a ‘national epidemic’ affecting more than 750,000 children annually. It notes that PARENTS (my emphasis) are the abusers in more than 80 percent 0f the cases.”
And you know, I do hate this debate, more than you all — and I never would have had cause to pen my “whiny” screed — if only the charge wasn’t made. And those who make it should go talk to the Oregon Attorney General to see if he has his facts straight. Or otherwise, I really just don’t want to hear it again — get your facts as straight as you all are.
I don’t care if you don’t like us because we’re “icky” — but stop accusing gay folks of all manner of horrendous nonsense, which is what we hate most, and we won’t “whine” but invite you for a glass of wine to celebrate two fine prince charmings settling down behind a picket fence.
And when you read the collection of comments here, and elsewhere, and everywhere — and on no such tiny subject is there such a plethora of opinions, charges, beliefs, accusations and more — it’s endless — none of you have a fact or truth — you have opinion and belief.
Which is why I said — put us on the autism spectrum, and then hold a National Commission to figure out how to include us. And end the “debate” nonsense. Then attend to stuff that matters. And we’ll go cut hair or something.
@Jim Hlavac: You state 80% of child abuse is by parents. I would like to know the percentage of children that are abused by homosexual priests? We could go on and on with this nonsense, but this is not what we need to be concerning ourselves with at this time. I question your motives. Either you’re a freedom loving conservative or not. I personally don’t think you are.
Duke University Offical Arrested for Sexually Abusing and Pimping 5-year Old Adopted Son
Frank M. Lombard has been charged with an attempt to persuade a person he did not realize was a task force officer from the Metropolitan Police Department to travelt o North Carolina to have sex with Lombard’s 5 year old adopted son……….
Lombard sexually assaulted his own 5 year old adopted son……….
Lombard, who is gay, is accused of inviting an undercover officer to have sex with his adopted 5 -year old son.
So folks, what we get is more whining and more finger pointing from Jim. But then, he won’t address the gay couple in the UK that abused sexually 14 foster children, all boys. Nor will he address that a recent survey done by the University of California show that more children have been abused by gays than by heterosexuals. You see, Jim only rants and raves about what he wants to but will never address the issues his “folks” have.
Jim Hlavac = LOSER
Jim, you are entitled to your opinion as I am mine. Respect doesn’t mean I have to agree with you, respect means that I gave you the time by reading what you have to say. I disagree but still respect you as a human being. That being said, I suggest where you have influence that you convey the message that any attempt to impose your value system without the mutual consent of the majority leads only to resentment, opposition and strife. This is a Republic and as long as that exists it means you as a minority have the responsibility to convince us otherwise and if we disagree – keep our own opinions without fear of violence or the childishness of disrespect from that minority. I would like to remind everyone this is not about fairness or “rights”, its about consent of the governed. Whether I agree or not about what you do in your bedroom is NOT the issue, it is what we as a society have agreed upon since the foundation of the Republic some 200+ years ago, ALL changes to the Laws of this Society must be mutually accepted by the majority otherwise a tyranny of the minority results – dictatorship.