In 1994 Mr. Conservative himself, Mr. Republican, Barry Goldwater, said:
“You don’t have to like it, but gay people deserve full constitutional rights including marriage and service in the Military.”
He said it in Phoenix — after he had come to terms with his gay grandson. Just like every family with a gay child has had to deal with the reality of a gay child. Just like my family came to reality about me. I can imagine it cannot be easy. But if there’s one thing Conservatives deal with, it’s reality. And for better or worse, gay folks are real. Of this we are sure, even if you are not. So real that our tiny minority — what? maybe 5% of the population? — has brought about a national debate by first convincing our mothers, or some other sympathetic family member, that we’re just OK, but different. By simply begging, almost literally, for acceptance, understanding and guidance. My father was a Goldwater Republican, and in this regard, his apple did not fall far from the tree. But he sure doens’t think I’m against him. I even wrote a book with him.
Being gay is not a political position. This debate is not an American debate. It’s happening in every country on earth. It’s because regardless of the culture, the religion, the race, or any other factor in our Babel of a world, no more than 5% of the people are insistently gay. There’s not just gay parades here, but in nearly every country on earth. Even in Moscow; though there the police still wade in with batons to beat us. And what determination we must have to try to organize gay parades in such places as Malaysia, Egypt and even Iran! But if we’re 5% of the world’s population, we’re some 350,000,000 people. How is this possible if it’s not natural? How could so many “choose,” so independently of each other, to be gay? And to “choose” means we must have somehow turned off our “natural” heterosexuality. How is this possible? How can we turn off “instinct”?
We have this determination because we simply are gay. We don’t know why; neither do you. You “believe” you know, but there’s too much opinion on why for anyone to “know.” Though we gay folks all know it an an extraordinarily young age. Not a gay guy I know — and I dare say I know considerably more than any reader here — does not have the same story. Somewhere, within the first inklings of puberty, we knew it. Virtually all of us say it was roughly between 8 and 12 years old. We just knew. And no one had to teach us what to do. And there are certainly no fairy tales for, um, fairies. Then the problem became how to deal with it, and anyone around us who found out. An even bigger problem was to figure out if there was anyone else around who felt as we did. For we all come to this conclusion ourselves, with no one to ever talk to about it. And you all get heaps and gobs of support. And you wonder why we have trouble with relationships?
We can’t just have dreamed this up and decided to “fight” society for the rest of our lives. There must be more to it. However, right now, just like I was 10 when I realized it, though didn’t have a word for it, there is another 10 year old boy coming to his realization. There is no “cure” for this reality. We are not recruiting these boys. At most we seek to protect them from bullying and to leave them a better America in which to grow up in. Just like you do for your kids. We’d prefer to call it mentoring. Though we’re pretty clueless about how to do it. We have begged the nation for guidance on this issue, but it’s often still way too dangerous to broach.
Many of you think the gay rights movement — or as I like to call it — “Rights for gays” — started in 1969. Or some time even later. But actually it started in the early 1950s in Chicago. A handful of gay folks formed a group called “The Friends of Dorothy.” They published a few hundred mimeographed fliers and handed them out. The nation was so fearful of us at the time, so against us, that the FBI spent over one year and a million dollars searching for “Dorothy.” How they did not know she was a fictional character in a classic movie we don’t know. We giggle about it to this day. But that was when we began begging for the culture war against us to cease. The one riot we had was 20 years later. It was our “shot heard round the world.” It was our moment of extremism in the defense of our liberty. Then we got back to begging.
But we have not attacked family, church or culture. We have begged for acceptance of our kind. We have begged our families, our churches, and we have begged this culture for a shred of humanity and understanding. We have achieved much. We beg, and many call it attack, which leaves us puzzled, even angry. I’d say more than half the nation has now realized that we are simply a harmless bunch of misfits. The least of God’s creatures, perhaps, but His children too. We are merely the pink sheep in His flock. Perhaps it would help if you imagine on us the autism scale. Something went awry in our brain wiring. There’s no way around the reality, however, that here we are. And we have no where else to go. But we are not fighting you, we are begging for a bit of mollycoddling. Which is something we don’t really get.
We do not expect anyone to come to some love-fest with us overnight. We, especially we, know the difficulties of the issue we present; though it’s not really our issue. It’s the issues you have with us. We’re somewhat self-conflicted with our calls for “Accept us, Include us, Ignore us,” true. We’re as coherent as the TEA Party in a lot of ways. No leader, no organization, just a determination to make a better America. Which includes us. But we’re extraordinarily comfortable with ourselves. We just don’t really think about it at all.
I can liken it to this: when you all are strolling through a park on a sunny afternoon hand in hand and espy a rose, and stop to smell, and have a romantic smooch you are accepted, included and ignored. It’s just a loving couple doing what comes natural. Right? But we dare not do this. Even though we pay taxes at the same rate as you do for the parks we cannot yet stroll through hand in hand, smell a rose and smooch. If the taxation is equal, should not the enjoyment of the parks bought be equal too? And all else too? We pay the same, give us the same.
But I can tell you this: at least half my gay friends are as conservative as you all, except on the gay thing obviously. And in these perilous times our nation faces, to argue incessantly over a tiny portion of the country is pointless. Do you really want to debate this DOMA thing for the next 10 or 15 years? We don’t, but we will if we have to. For it is true, marriage, even by a name special for us, is a Conservative value. We want to settle down, we’re still begging for help in doing it. For we never received guidance on how to have relationships; indeed, some say it’s impossible, all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding. Help us find our prince charming, that’s what we beg of you, too.
And to chase away potential voters, and our parents and friends too, is simply not a way to resurrect the greatness of this nation. We are simply too unimportant to fight over. But we’re all too real. And we vote, mostly for whomever will bear us no malice. The Liberals were good at that, hoodwinking us, but too many of us have woken up to the chicanery of the Left. Most polling data indicate that upwards of 30% of gay folks vote Republican. I know I have, consistently, for decades. What can you do to win the rest of us?
And I can also tell you at least half my friends are rooting for Sarah Palin. It’s a simple reason really, besides the political stuff. She has a son who is different, and we pray to God Almighty that she will have the wisdom to realize we’re just sons who are different too. And then put a stop to this debate about us. Let my people go, and get back to the debt, the deficit, the unions, repealing ObamaCare and the rest.
Perhaps the nation should set up a National Commission on Gay Americans — and move all this debate to it. And figure us out. Just don’t forget to include us in the discussion. A discussion I really just hate having, as I’m sure you’re all tired of having it too. But that’s what happens when 5% of the nation with nothing to lose begs for sixty years. It was beg, or continue with the police raids on our bars. Eventually you started listening. We might be less than rugged individuals — but don’t you just marvel at our fortitude? Do we not get two points for that at least? Our fortitude comes because we are sure God is on our side.
You know, Jesus said: walk a mile in another man’s shoes before you condemn him. Walk but a block in mine and it will open your eyes.
And He said: treat others as you want to be treated. We have done so, mostly by begging.
He also said, “Turn the other cheek.” And that too we have done. That’s our getting up to beg again after we’ve been knocked down again.
We have simply been begging God to change the hard hearts against us. For sixty years. Please don’t make us beg for another sixty. I beg you.
Thank you, Jim Hlavac, for a very well written article. I hope everyone takes the time to read it. My brother was bi-sexual but wasn’t openly so. It had nothing to do with what kind of brother he was. I couldn’t have hand picked a better one. He made me laugh more than anyone else.
He was older than me and I lost him when he was killed by a drunk driver in 2003.
Two of his friends who are gay are now among the most loyal friends I have ever had and I am thankful for their friendship and loyalty. They do not flaunt the fact that they are gay and often it never even comes into the conversation. They have been gainfully employed for many years and just go about their business like anyone else.
I guess without getting into too long a reply, I could just offer this:
“The prejudices people feel about each other disappear when they get to know each other.”
Kirk
This country has much bigger issues to deal with than people’s sexual preferences.
There are a great many of us who recognize that the biggest problem right now is removing a president and his administration who treat the Constitution like it is cage lining. Their agenda threatens Everybody’s freedom.
No matter what our other differences are, we should concentrate on what we have in common (NO 2nd term for Obama !)…..and Not focus on our differences.
Divided we fall.
I just recently changed my mind on the subject, after seeing a video of Ann Coulter speak in front of GOProud(homo republican group). The good thing is that as far as I have seen, the homo community does not seem to support terrorism and sharia law, unlike certain individuals in some other community’s where I live.
When I moved into the big city I unintentionally moved into the homo part of town, I don’t look or act the part so none of them really talk to me. Odd as it sounds I see some of those guys in church on sunday. The whole fruity culture seems a little strange to me but; if your a patriot….
By the way jim, it sound weird to hear a gay guy talk about turning the other cheek. Just saying…
Thank you Jim, for a well written article. You stated your case well and I am sure you have made some inroads within our group.
If I may make a few observations. I have noticed a contribution of support to the Conservative lifestyle for a year or so now. It was a welcome shock to the system. Whether you are a fiscal conservative or a Social Conservative, the Conservative feelings are difficult to deny.
I am glad to have all the different Conservatives (except for some of the radical anti-social types). Conservatism isn’t fashionable, cool, or hip; it is a lifestyle that is usually ow key and boring to the youg hip generation, sad but true. However, there is a bright side, we know that people who decide to be a part of Conservatism, do so after careful deliberation ad not because they want to wear shoes that make their feet hurt to be fashionable.
Many former military men worry about conflict of interest with gays in leadership and we are skeptical about the ability to hold the line under extreme stress. A breakdown in morale or discipline because of a gay relationship within the ranks could be tragic during critical times. We have hetero breakdowns and it is bad enough; gays would need to be five times better to prove themselves in my opinion to earn the respect of troopers, in my opinion. Giving dispensation for poor performance because recruits and trainees were gay would result in a poor situation from the get go, causing resentment and erosion of morale. Do I think the gays can do it? The best ones can. The problem is, people like us are only exposed to the most ostentatious and outrageous gays who paint a poor picture of the gay lifestyle to us more demure types. I assume most sedate gays are fairly quiet or close mouthed about their sexuality and sexual activities. A trait that is consistent with a Conservative lifestyle. I’m not saying it’s fair, but it is reality. You have your work cut out for you, but if it was easy, women and children would be doing it. LOL Sarcasm Jim!
During the 50’s and part of the 60’s, public displays of affection between adults was frowned on and not considered appropriate behavior. Now we have people with a myriad of lifestyles who seem to be flaunting their lifestyles to elicit a response or reaction from Conservative types or perhaps even just old school types regardless of politics. This behavior is viewed as indecent or insulting to some and helps no one’s cause, especially gays.
In time and with contributions by fair minded thoughtful gays like yourself, us more conventional Conservatives will realize that gays like you Jim have integrity and can make a useful contribution as Conservatives and as patriotic Americans.
I will say, Welcome Aboard Jim, now let’s get down to work and only devote 5% of your writing to gay issues. LOL Not serious, well maybe just a little. Oh! Just use one name, in the future.
@Skookum: I can understand the problems now, with gay folks in the front lines or leadership battle command stuff — but can’t we be in linguistics, (we already speak two languages, gay and straight) or supply or filing, you know state side stuff? Almost every Lesbian I know is quite a good shade tree mechanic. Or how about just the marching band. We parade well, and we blow a mean trumpet, I hear.
@Zac: When with Jesus from 179th street in the Bronx is one thing, with the Big Guy’s Son, quite another. The language is flexible for both, without the pun, no? Still, everyone lives in a “homo” neighborhood: “homo sapiens” — Now those homos are positively everywhere! And do some of them flaunt it! Though I can admit that we homos don’t make you homos, but well, you homos certainly make a lot of us. And we thank you for that!
Excellent article, and I hope more straight Conservatives start getting the message. I don’t understand the fear and loathing against gays, but I damn well know it exists. And I also know that as the political battles intensify in this country, Conservatives of all stripes need to put the “small stuff” aside so we can join together to try to win the big battles.
As an aside, in this morning’s paper I read that the Whitehouse had just appointed the first-ever male Social Secretary to handle parties and events. And I said to myself, “Well, the guy has got to be gay.” Was that prejudice on my part, or simply experience and logic? Or perhaps a psychic flash…since it turned out (surprise!) that the guy is gay. In my heart, it was as simple as thinking “well, if they want a guy to do a good job with that, he’d better be gay.” Because damn it, there are a huge number of gay guys who are just hugely talented in the arts.
I’m disappointed that Barack Obama says that he’s still “grappling” with his feelings about the rights of gays, while simultaneously saying that Eric Holder should enforce the Defense of Marriage Act, but not defend the Defense of Marriage Act. I’m never surprised by spinelessness or inconsistency from this president, but I continue to be disappointed.
@Jim Hlavac:
Hey Jim; good piece, and plenty controversial. I hope to read some more of your stuff in the future.
If a person does an exemplary job at what they do for a living, I don’t care if they’re gay.
What a load of whining, pansy assed crap. But then, that is what I would come to expect from someone who shows himself in a pair of cut-offs that I would not let my kid, male or female, go out in public wearing.
You got your clock cleaned the other day and, true to the whining, pathetic pansy you are, demanded that the owner of this blog publish YOUR side of the story. Well, here is MY side of the story:
Gays have injected themselves in the political debate demanding rights they know they already have. You have the right to work at any job where the employer feels you are qualified to do that job and contract with you a salary. You do not have the right to drag your sexuality into the work place. You have the right to write a will, leaving all your worldly possessions to the person of your choice; you have the right to create a Power of Attorney, designating the person of your choice to make choices for you in the event you are incapacitated and cannot do that for yourself. AND you have the right to marry just as anyone else in this nation under the same guidelines as someone who is straight. Or perhaps you would like to list the states that have the question “Are you gay?” on a marriage licence application. Ooooops, you can’t.
You said ” But we have not attacted family, faith or culture.” What a load of crap. Or do you choose to ignore your fellow travelers entering a Catholic Church during mass, dressed in obscene costumes, and demanding the priest administer communion to then? Do you not think that the freaks of the Folsom Street Parade, who give S & M lessons to their buddies on the public streets of San Francisco are not attacking “culture”? Do you think when you are DEMANDING respect, you are showing respect for others? Nah, that would be thinking that is just too deep for someone who seems to not know how to do anything but whine about what a sorry lot his life is.
You, and your fellow gays, told the nation that if we would just stop prosecuting you when you decided that you wanted to be sodomites in the privacy of your own bedrooms, that would be enough for you. It wasn’t. Then you said you wanted the right to act like misguided drag queens while at work and not be fired for it, even though it made your fellow employees uncomfortable (reverting back to that whole “respect” thing) and you got your wish. You are now a “protected” minority. But then, that was not enough, was it? You started “demanding” domestic partnership benefits from employers via your insurance benefits. And that was going to be enough, right? It wasn’t. But hey, just because we have a culture where marriage to someone of the opposite sex is the norm, why should you respect the culture you say you have not attacked? You demanded that you be allowed to serve in the military openly as a gay, and you didn’t bother to stop and think how that made the 95% of our military straight feel, did you. Hell, all the military asked was that you keep your personal life, you know PERSONAL. But that wasn’t good enough, was it? I mean, rules are written for everyone but you, right?
Now you say you will finally be satisfied if you just have governmental approval via same-sex marriage. How shallow your relationship with your partner must be if you require the government to validate that relationship. And when you are granted that boon, will you, and your fellow gays then cease the movement to teach little kids that “Heather has two mommies” and that penquins are gay?
Stop whining. Get on with your life. Do as you will, but stop trying to convince the 95% of us that your 5% represents normality. It doesn’t. And stop lying to yourself saying that the gay movement is not a political agenda; it is. When you are trying to change culture, and laws, to cater to what you do in the privacy of your own bedroom, sorry, Toots, that’s political. When you are supportive of those who want to indoctrinate elementary school children; that’s political.
Why don’t you talk about why HIV/AIDs was so rampant in the male gay community? Could it be because the promiscuity of your fellow gays was legendary? Why don’t you talk about the assault, YES ASSAULT, your fellow gays have committed against the churches in America? Or maybe you would like to discuss how most gays are absolutely hooked on porn? Or how gay men have almost universal hatred for gay women? Gee, what’s not normal about your lifestyle?
Get over yourself. Victimhood is not a desirable trait.
@Stilton: As we joke — if the Sistine Chapel was decorated by a straight guy the place would be wood paneling and wall paper, and a few dear heads. Michaelangelo was of course, as history records, bailed out at least once, maybe twice, from jail for gay stuff — who do you think that David fellow of statue fame is? — by the pope who wanted a really nice ceiling. 250 hunky near naked men and less than 30 frumpy dressed woman later, the world is still agog at that ceiling!
Really Jim…please take your last name off your username here (and anywhere else) ….or change it to initials and then your last name….or “Jim H” …..or make something up.
With me having a name like Smith……well there are only a few million out there with the first and middle initials SB…easy to virtually be anonymous.
“If the Sistine Chapel was decorated by a straight guy the place would be wood paneling and wall paper, with a few deer heads.”
Nothing like a little sterotyping from the whiner who wants “respect”.
retire05 :
You don’t have any room to be talking about stereotyping.
It’s your specialty.
Oh, really, SBSmith? So you have no problem with sterotyping straight guys as being no talent hacks that are all just creatons?
And just how do you know what my “speciality” is? Do you know me? My family? What I do for a living? Or are you just another brain dead dimwit that throws slurs out there knowing that you will not have to back them up?
@retire05: Sir, I was wearing those in my home on which I paid taxes, doing repair work in my kitchen, and my mom and grandma came over, and the picture taken. I really never leave the precincts of my property in shorts. Have you never sir walked around in your house in your boxers? It is a staple of the comedy circles. As for tight shorts — well, sir, plenty of runners out there every day, and soccer stars. And what is it with the skin tight garb on baseball and football players? What are they flaunting sir? Not to mention Country Music stars with painted on jeans, (not that I’m complaining, but … ) And might I add, in every “normal” parade, from Rose Bowl to Thanksgiving, and Memorial day there are legions of nubile young ladies in skin tight leotards strutting their stuff, and drooling men along the sidelines. Not to mention that you folks can barely buy a Chevy without a bimbo in a slinky outfit on the hood. So what then do you protest? That I wore shorts in my home?
As for AIDS — let’s do some math: roughly 10,000,000 to 15,000,000 gay men — and roughly today 200,00 gay men, and 200,000 men who claim to be straight but had sex with men (beats me, talk to them) and the other 700,000, women & children with AIDS. Whom sir is riven with disease?
As for “Assault, yes ASSAULT,” against churches: can you direct me to one instance anywhere in this nation of any gay man, or gay men or group of same physically assaulting a church? Did we fire bomb any? Shoot ’em up? To what assaults are you referring? You are entitled to your opinions for sure, but not your facts. There was, back in oh, 198o-something, a few wackos who stood up during services in St. Patrick’s in NYC. They were given a stern “you idiots” by every gay group in the nation. Sir, give me some facts, not your “belief” on these assaults you are claiming.
We are not a “protected” minority. Indeed, only 8 states and a few dozens lesser places give any such protection. We’re certainly prohibited from any federal protection legally. For I dare say, DOMA does not protect us at all, but specifically prohibits such.
Might I also add that on June 28th, 2009, some two dozen Fort Worth Texas cops waltzed into a gay bar in that city and started swinging batons and beat the living snot out of the 8 or 9 patrons. The date is the very 40th Anniversary of our one violent act — the Stonewall Riots. One of the “whiny” was beaten so severely he’s still in physical rehab. The mayor is apologetic, the city is paying damages, the police are being investigated for what I charitably call “less than protected status” given to the few men there. And we “ASSAULT” you? You jest? No?
Finally — we sir, I do submit do not get “Respect” — or otherwise I would not have to read you comment, other comments elsewhere, posts galore across the internet claiming GOD knows what. And the very fact that the nation is embroiled in a heated conversation about whether we deserve respect at all is quite indicative that you are very opinionated but fact-lacking. I think, if you want to know how much respect we get you should consult the FRC, NOM, AFTAH, NARTH and a plethora of groups that are quite sure we deserve something less than respect.
I marvel sir, at your complaint. Anything else?
@retire05: Sir, do you not have a sense of humor? Or can you not read? I said: “as we joke” — I’m sure many a straight artist could have done a fine job as well, perhaps with a few more ladies up yonder high. Albrecht Durher was available, so was Bernini, and quite a few others. But humor appears not to be a better part of your valor.
@retire05: Sir, some of my best friends are straight. About the only stereotype I have of them is that they’re married, they’re wives and kids enjoy my company and they have jobs. Other than that they’re as individual as you or I. And sir, we are a country of individualism, ruggedly so, and even dare I say for the not so rugged.
@SB Smith: Well, SB — I do declare — as John Hancock so famously said when signing the Declaration of Independence “I wrote it big so the king would not need his spectacles.” I’m redressing grievances here — I want the government to know!
Jesus said put your light upon the basket. And it’s a free Republic yet — why should I be afraid of using my name?
Anonymous? Egad – I wrote books, I put out CDs of my music, I do marketing and promotion, I live off my name — why on earth would I want to be anonymous? You are of course, entirely entitled do so.
But I shall not. Not to mention — I’m the author of the post — how can I respond to comments, if I now in the comments hide my name?
But thank you for the suggestion.
Thanks for all the comments, pro-and-con — just part of the big national debate no one wants. Weird.
Anyway, alas, I shall depart these hustings to go to a Mardi Gras Parade in my fair city now — one where shorts clad heterosexual men will bump and grind their intoxicated selves while flaunting heterosexual imagery galore through four hours of bead throwing — decorum I do say! For some things are really more important than politics, like, um, catching worthless beads. Which might be what the money is worth if the country doesn’t get focused on the real problems instead of endless debating our “silly sissy smooching.” (That’s a stereotype joke, Mr. Retire, btw)
Cheers, thank you Flopping Aces, I look forward to all the comments later tonight.
@Jim Hlavac:
OK, so you don’t understand the word “assault” if it is not used in the context of violence. You must have been eductated in a public school. Shall we talk about The Rainbow Sash or the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence? Their actions against the Catholic Church are more recent than 30 years ago. Perhaps you can explain to me why they feel the need to drag their sexuality into the practice of faith? Is it that your sexuality, as a gay, is the defining trait in your life?
And while you seem to want to educate me on alphabet organizations, you seem to have forgotten NAMBLA. Or is that not a gay male organization? Ummmm?
And don’t you DARE talk to me about HIV/AIDs. I was volunteering at the AIDs hospital (now closed) in Houston, Texas when you were still shitting in your diapers. You want to post the number of HIV/AIDs deaths in the U.S. and who the majority of those deaths took? You want to discuss the gay bath houses in San Francisco and how the gays fought Don Francis when he tried to close them? And you want to disguss with me a disease that my son has suffered with for 20 years? Bring it on.
You are a whiner who wants special laws and special cultures to suit your private life style. I frankly, am sick of you. Get on with your life. Stop whining and making demands that society change to suit you. I can’t marry just anyone and neither can you. Deal with it. But at least be honest enough to admit the gay “movement” is political. For you to deny that fact is simply hypocritical.
From avert.org:
Estimated adult and adolescent HIV diagnoses in 2008 by transmission routes:
male to male – 22,810
injection use – 2,825
male to male and injection drug use – 1,173
heterosexual contact – 4,677
So while gays (including gay women) represent 5% of the population, 71% of all HIV/AIDs cases are represented by gay men. And between 2005 and 2008, the number of AIDS diagnoses INCREASED among those who were exposed through male-to-male sexual contact while the number exposed to injecting drug use DECREASED.
Wow, just wow.
Jim, you mentioned gays serving in pogue (clerical) positions instead of on the line. If you are a reader, may I suggest, “Just Give Me Tomorrow” a story of the Marines in Korea. It is one of the most moving books I have ever read.
To the point, every Marine is trained as a “Grunt” (infantry) before he learns a military specialty. In Korea the clerks, truck drivers, cooks and Marines who had never even been to boot camp tool their positions on the line and held. It is an unbelievable story of courage and brotherhood. I knew some of those guys, there were thousands of them still I when I served. If you can, please read hat book and let me know if you think you and your Gay friends could rise to the occasion. All kidding aside, that running battle was one of the wost experiences and conditions Amerian servicemen ever fought under and I would appreciate your opinion after reading that book, pass it on to your reader friends and let them see what it is like to live in Hell at 40 below. I am not trying to embarrass you or put you on the spot, but I am curious to your reaction. I personally wonder if I would have had the courage and determination to live through that bit of history.
Needless to say that the Ancient Greeks had gay relations within the ranks, but theirs was a different society than ours and we must remember the vast majority of our military boys are from the heartland of America and they tend to be way more Conservative than the average young boy from the large cities.
There are may of us older guys who would go in a heart beat if they need us and asked for us and we are obviously concerned over this gay military issue. Not as a measure of discrimination so much, but in consideration of our young patriots having the best chance of survival and esprit de corps.
Having been through a divorce and suffering through business setbacks and the Obama Recession, I find the gay marriage question humorous. How are the judges going to figure out who gets the shaft and financial ruin following the divorce. In one respect the draconian divorce laws might need to be altered so that men don’t automatically become felons in the eyes of the court, just so that we can have equal protection under the law. Well maybe once a new president is sworn in. Because this one does not believe in the law, unless it is politically advantageous for him to enforce the law, otherwise known as tyranny.
Personally I’m not so much worried about a gay agenda as much as I’m worried about it being connected to a socialist agenda and the socialists try to make everyone believe the two are mutually exclusive. To be honest that’s why I have felt strongly against it in the past.
Skookum im not that I am a fan of Hittler, but as far as military is concerned: Hittler’s brown shits were mostly made up of gay guys, the national socialist party started in a gay bar in Munich. and one of his top advisers was a well known gay guy. My point in saying that is that its not that gay guys cant be tough. The SS and Gastapo were definitely tough, although misguided. My point is that if the socialists of america push the gay agenda they will try to lower the standards in the military and give everyone diversity training, which is costly and goes against american values.
Other than that I think the Berry Goldwater quote was on the money, but I for one won’t stand for socialism.
Zac, I would point you to the writings of Gramsci who said that in order for Communism to be brought about you had to indoctrinate the children before the age of 12 or they would be independent thinkers and lost to the movement forever.
Why do you think gays push having “Heather Has Two Mommies” taught in grade schools?
@retire05: I spent the evening with the exec director of the Baton Rouge AIDS agency — he says your data is wrong — he will email me later with the data — cheers
@retire05: Communists beat gay people as severely as America did — what on earth are you talking about. Moscow and St. Petersburg in Russia attack gay parades with cops. If were so communist — why the hell are communists attacking us today?
@retire05: Sir I’m 52 years old — I doubt you were doing much with AIDS patients when I was in diapers. I was 22 when AIDS hit NYC in 1981 — it got to Houston a year or two later — you have no idea what you’re talking about. but power to you!
@retire05: Once again — mush. Utter mush.
@Zac: Socialists beat and killed and imprisoned gay people at a rate far more furious than any democratic republics ever did. Once again — this idea that gayness is a political position is nuts. Do you listen to yourselves? Russia is still beating gay people as fast and furious as they can. If communists and socialists were FOR gay people what on earth are they doing beating us into submission – -again mush. Utter mush.
I would point out that Communists and Socialists in the Soviet bloc through the 30s -through 90s blamed Evil Capitalism on Gay People at the same time that capitalists and Americans were blaming gay people on Godless Communism — which is it? It cannot be both. We are either Godless Communists, or evil capitalists – -come to a conclusion. That’s all I ask. You can’t, and so blame gay folks in which ever way you want for what ever you want — what a sweet game you play — and I’m supposed to respond to this? I really don’t like responding to the delusional other than calling for the white coat guys to take you away.
@retire05: Sir or Madam Retire — which ever gender you are — I do not want any laws special for us — I have no idea what on earth you are talking about. You have put your personal beliefs on to millions of gay folks. We want the law against us repealed, and somehow to make us included in the laws that exist.
We were not the ones raiding our bars and beating us senseless and arresting us. If not being beaten for having a beer is a “special” law I do submit it’s a law that’s as special as a heterosexual not being beaten for having a beer in a bar.
Once again your “opinions” have such little relation to the facts I wonder if you’re rational.
but let me be clear, sir or madam, I don’t want to talk to you, I don’t want to be your friend, I don’t want you near me. And I particularly don’t want laws against me and my kind because you can’t come to a conclusion about what you are talking about.
As for “DARE” — how CAPITALISTIC you are, if I might pun, about AIDS — you sir, I dare say, despite anything you did, which I respect such as you did it — are so driven by your despising gay folks that I’m just bumfuddled. HAVE AT IT SIR — you are my favorite sort of opponent — so filled with selective facts, and lousy logic, and opinion based on pure belief, that I could almost write a book on every comment you make. You sir, are a charming man or woman, driven with an obsession with gay folks that is simply beyond my comprehension. I’m gay and I don’t think about it this much.
And sadly, it folks like you who will lead this nation to another 10, 15, 20 years of discussion about us for no reason other than you ill-founded beliefs. Well sir, we’re going to be at war for quite a while. I’m begging for the cessation of the culture war against gay folks — and you’re calling for the continuation. Well, see you on the hustings. 🙂
Uhh jim.. I was saying I’m fine with a gay movement, and gays being able to join the military, as long as its not politicaly motivated by leftists who for some idiotic reason praise stalinist ideology. Yes I mentioned hittlers SA, and hittler used the gay movement in munich to come to power then abandoned them once his support became more moderate, just like the leftists in america will do. You in your fury read my work to quickly, please read my post again before you call it mush.
@retire05: @Zac: Hitler — you can’t even spell it right, I wonder what you know — had a number of gay men, true, and Hitler had them all shot before he even took over Czechoslovakia. So much for Hitler being pro-gay. Then he made all gay folks wear pink triangles and rounded them up and sent them to concentration camps and had them killed. My my what a gay friendly man he was! Nothing say “good buddy” like endless slaughter.
Meanwhile, the USA Washington DC. National Holocaust Museum was OK’d so long as it did not put the gay victims of Hitler in the exhibits because that would be “promoting homosexuality” with taxpayer money.
Again — do you people have a clue as to what you’re saying? Or do you spend all day just fantasizing? I often wonder, truly I do.
OK, Jim, so I don’t have a crystal ball to tell me how old you are. Sue me. At 52, you should have outgrown your whining stage by now. Instead, you continue to sound like a petulant teenager. Guess your “gayness” prevents maturity, in your case.
Now, let me tell you what you don’t know; the AIDs Foundation of Houston was founded in 1982, due to the high rate of cases that was showing up in the gay male community there. San Francisco and NYC were getting all the press, but Houston had a real problem. So run your mouth to someone you can fool. It ain’t me. And I don’t play games. I leave that to mentally underdeveloped people like you.
Have there been times when the guys in white coats should have taken me away? Yeah. Mother’s Day, 1987. That is the day that my son told me he was HIV/AIDs positive. So I have already had more grief in my life than a whining, pathetic little weasel like you can ever dish out. I held the hands of half my son’s friend’s parents as they buried their sons. I held the hands of those whose family would have nothing to do with them because they had that “gay” disease while they died. I was there. So don’t hand me your manure. I don’t need it.
But I will say this; not one of those dying men ever whined like you do. And not one of them demanded that others accepted their life style like you do. And you are a lying POS to say that there is nothing political about the gay movement. Damn it all, man, can’t you even be honest?
Now see if you can get this through your hard head: we are NOT Russia. So stop the comparison. And no one is beating you into submission and don’t presume to speak for every gay in the world. You do not have that right.
You simply want what you want and you want the rest of society to change to accomodate you and your lifestyle. You have made your choices and you want everyone else to accept them by forcing your own personal beliefs down everybody else’s throat. Well, you don’t get to do that.
I have no respect for you. You are a whining gurly-man who complains because others have a different opinion. Well, asshole, where is your respect for MY opinion? You act like you speak for all gays. Guess what? You don’t. You speak for your own selfish self, nothing more.
Oh, and about those Ft. Worth police officers? They were all exonerated from the claims you made. It was testifed that the one gay guy who wound up in the hospital did so because he was falling down drunk and busted his head on the sidewalk as he tried to run out of the club.
So take your damn drama queen act somewhere else.
And always cute that each of my comments got a “negative vote” — busy night, eh “retire”
I just giggle — oh do ramp up my negatives to 20 or so — to show something or other. Egad.
Good thing the Mardi Gras parade was good – with endless globs of young girls in leotards so tight you could see every crease in their young nubile bodies. What licentious people you heteros are. Then when done with your “sanctity of vows” you rush off to the divorce courts. Do you all know the word “hypocrite” ? I often w0nder.
Like to hear the thrice divorced Newt Gingrich and Donald Trump to come out against gay marriage by any name because it would sully marriage is most humorous. We crack up laughing at the audacity of the hypocrisy.
Ok jim.. I can’t spell hittler, you got me. I’m an ignorant redneck who grew up several hundred miles from civilization. Arguing for arguments sake is not my style. Hittler killed effeminate men, not necessarily gay men. I just agreed with you, in my post and you attacked me. That’s not a good thing to do to a fan who complimented your work. I’m half your age so I won’t argue with an elder. This will be my last post on your work.
What the hell does Newt Gingrich and Donald Trump have to do with anything? Rush off to divorce court? Sorry, but that is not going to happen after all the years I have been married. You see, Little Whiner, my spouse and I have something that has held us together that you will never know about: children. And the fact that we have honored our commitment to each other through good times and bad. So your general use of the term “you” is just as out of line as the rest of your whining bullshit.
Take your drama queen act on the road. Or perhaps you could get a gig at Charlie Brown’s.
*Sorry way less than half your age, my math skills are about as good as my ability to spell hittler.
retire05 – it’s spelled cretin…not creaton.
SB Smith, I realize the error as soon as I hit “post”. But so glad to know that any intelligent critique that you have is limited to those of typing errors.
I can still spell asshole.
Sixty years of gay folks begging [Reader Post] | Flopping Aces http://bit.ly/ghyEHS
Sixty years of gay folks begging [Reader Post] | Flopping Aces http://bit.ly/gfdbIa
Sixty years of gay folks begging http://bit.ly/h7KGAu #tcot #rightnetwork #lgbt #queer #gay #glbt
You know, Mr. Retire05 — I do not want to argue with you — I have no real problem with your beliefs or positions, opinions and what you experienced. That’s what a Free Republic is about. It’s true that gay folks make up about 1/2 of the AIDS stricken. I know this, you know this — the numbers are there. But on the other hand, it’s amazing that only Jews get Tay-Sachs, and blacks tend to get lupus and sickle cell at far higher rates than whites, and Mediterranean men get Karposi’s Sarcoma — oddly in the early GRID part of AIDS — gay related immune deficiency as it was called at first — gay men with whatever hit us got this t00 — and so on and so forth.
And you know what, sir? I almost hoped that only gay men got this — and you know why? For it would prove once and for all a genetic component to gayness. For if no straight person ever got this disease — like no Christian gets Tay-Sacks — then lo, it would prove we were whom we claim to be. Just natural by God’s Grace. Turns out not the case, oh well.
Still, what we gay folks have asked is to remove us from the discussion of all that ails this country. We’re just not a part of any current problem, or any past problem either — for long before the deficit, or the socialists in the Democratic Party, or Obama, or any thing since, well the dawn of time — gay folks were around and penalized for our existence. It makes no difference where or when. This is not an American Problem — it’s worldwide. We just seem to be everywhere — at the exact same percentage oddly enough. How much more natural can you get I don’t know.
What can I say sir — I simply do not want this discussion. But we are not the ones who raided our bars and beat us senseless. We’re not the ones who dragged us into psych wards for electro-shock therapy or testosterone shots, or whatever else they did to us back then. We are not the ones who threw us out of our families in decades past and then accused us of being anti-family. We’re not the ones who barred the church house doors and accused us of being anti-religion. We’re not against you sir, you are against us.
We gay folks readily concede the point that we were never accepted by any culture in the last two thousand years. Well, women weren’t warmly in the mix either — and now look lo, Sarah Palin. Quite unBiblical to have a woman on the hustings. Do read the Good Book. Pork and shellfish are quite abominable too, but here we’re able to get quite fine shrimp stuff pork roast. Quite delicious. How selective some folks are. Adultery is against a commandment — and there’s no commandment against being gay.
And sir I doubt we’ll ever cross paths personally – -though if we do I pray cordiality rules the day — but this is not a Free Republic for 95% of the population and a theocracy for us 5% —
You want “Militant”? or “Radical” — which I do not, but I’m a good fiction writer —
if you think we’re crazy – we want disability
if we’re “Dysfunctional” — we’ll pay us to stay home so we might not sully the nation.
If you truly believe that by letting us wander the streets in peace and pursuing our happiness is a threat to the nation then pay us to stay home.
And for the gusto — give us back all the taxes we ever paid — and pay us reparations too — and let us all move to Florida — from oh, Orlando and I-4 south — like a solid concrete barrier Gulf to Atlantic — dismiss us from the country and let us form a Gay Republic. I think Florida for two reasons — for the shape of the place, of course, and the Speedo wearing opportunities year round. We shall be happy. You shall be happy.
And then, when you find the next generation of gay boys grown old to young gay men, well ship them down to our Gay Republic, and we shall take them in. Help us take Cuba and that’s a real bargain — The heteros on that Island can move elsewhere.
And sir, either you let us be accepted within the nation we’re born in and pay taxes in — or some other arrangement must be made.
I think you heteros have such a divorce concept — one often used to preserve the sanctity of marriage — what is it called? Hmm. Oh yea, “irreconcilable differences.” Till death or divorce do us part, sir, let us honor each other as fellow Americans. It E Pluribus Unum — Not E pluribus unum exceptum gayus folkus.
Let my people go, sir. Stop the silly debate over silly people.
Thanks.
Good reading. Lively debate!
@Jim Hlavac:
“You know, Mr. Retire05, I don’t want to argue with you.”
You’re right. You don’t want to debate. You simply want to make silly, absurd statements.
“It’s amazing that only Jews get Tay-Sacks.”
What is amazing is how little you seem to know about things you spout off about. While it is true that Tay-Sacks was first discovered in Ashkenazi Jews, it has also been discovered in Cajuns of Southern Louisiana and a closely related strain has been found in French Canadians. It is also genetic. HIV/AIDs is not. It is behavior based. And you are wrong about the percentage of new AIDs cases represented by gay men. It’s not the 50% you claim, it’s actually 74% (2008 data). You would think that after over 25 years of knowing what causes HIV/AIDs in gay men, it would have gone down.
“Still, what we gay folks have asked is to remove us from the discussion.”
Liar. The gay “lobby” is one of strongest lobbies in this country. From those who protested, rudely, Prop 8 in California, to the Gay Pride marches to the protests that have taken place all across the continent. Your very post on this blog shows that not only do you want to be part of the conversation, you initiated it. So please, don’t pee on my leg and tell me its raining.
Then you go on to mention Sarah Palin. Tell me, what politician do you know, gay or straight, that has endured the slander and vileness that Sarah Palin has? And exactly what do you think would happen if someone like Barney Frank was slandered in the same manner? You gays would be taking to the streets demanding that all statements be retracted about Frank. So again, your attempt at comparisons is less than weak.
As far as barring you from church; no one barrs you from church. All that is asked is that you leave your sexuality at the door. But instead, you want to act like rejected drag queens and proclaim that your sexuality takes presedence over your faith. And you wonder why people question your motives? You are either painfully blind or willfully stupid. Or a liar. Which is it?
Pay you reparations? For what? For being expected to carry your share of supporting our government? Or do you think you are entitled to reparations because Hitler murdered gays, along with Jews, gypsies, Catholics, etc?
“Let my people go.”
And just who would your people be? And where are they being held captive? You are such a drama queen. Tell me, Jim, if I were to meet you, how would I tell you are gay? You look like a man, dress like a man. Have you adopted the quaint little mannerisms that you think makes you “look” gay? Do you have a big red mark on your forehead so I can tell you are gay by looking at you? That is the “discussion” you want to avoid; that no one can tell if you are straight, or gay, unless you conduct yourself in such a manner that makes it apparent.
Sorry, but your ramblings about a “gay” Cuba or Florida, psych-wards, shock treatment, claims of abuse, yada, yada, yada, is not a debate. It is simply the ramblings of someone who, although you claim to not want to be part of the national discussion, wants to initiate it and give lame excuses for your perceived persecution. You have not addressed ONE of the debate points I have made, but continue to ramble on about things that have no import. Crap about shrimp and pork and how “heteros” can move out of Cuba is no less crap.
You claim to want to be viewed as normal. News flash; you’re not normal. No more so that the person born with six fingers is normal, except you choose to be gay. The person with six fingers didn’t chose to be born that way. You have a life style that you want the freedom to live. Fine. I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with you dragging your personal life into the public arena. It is people like you who makes my son’s life harder. Why is it the business of your employer, or your fellow employers, your neighbors or the guy at the movie rental shop that you are gay? Why must you make that the focal point of your very existance? Do you think “heteros” go around proclaiming their heterosexuality? “Hi, Jim, I’m a straight male.” Yeah, that’s what heteros do, right?
Heteros, as you call us, do not start conversations with “As a hetero male” or “as a hetero female”. You have put your sexuality in front of everything else that constructs who, and what, you are. It is the focal point of your life. You are a liar and dishonest with your claims. You delve into the absurd, simply because you have no valid debate.
And true to form, you argue that I “dispise” gay folks. What a laugh. You know NOTHING about me except that I don’t accept your drama queen bullshit. Hell, you don’t even know my gender, and that is simply because my gender is moot to this discussion. You see, unlike you, I am more than my sexuality.
It must be a read drag to encounter someone who doesn’t buy into your “poor, pitiful Pearl” senario. Someone who knows the facts that you refuse to debate. What you are is a disgrace to all gay men who truely just want to live their lives in the privacy of their own homes and believe that what they do in their bedrooms is not the business of anyone else. You give a bad name to those gay men who don’t act like girly men or demand sympathy because they are gay. You remind me of a guy (gay) I know who wears fingernail polish to work but complains that he hates his job as a welder because all the guys he works with are soooooo “macho”.
You are NOT representative of “gay” men. What you are is a crusader of a phony cause.
Now, go blow your smoke up someone else’s shirt tail. I’m not buying into your whining, pathetic b/s.
Excellent, excellent article. Bravo Jim!
And it’s especially nice to see so much support here on a Conservative site, whom also tend to get stereotyped as “Archie Bunker” bigots. So glad to see all the misconceptions on either side begin to dissolve.
There will always be folk like retire05, who hold onto their ideas no matter what information, personal experience or testimonials they receive, and that’s okay. He’s entitled.
Again, great job. Keep at it. Just when I thought I couldn’t learn anything more about this issue, I’ve been enlightened about it in regards to Conservatives. That makes me very happy.
Cary, perhaps you would like to list what “ideas” that I have said are wrong? Or do you just follow along like a sheeple, with no opinion, or facts, of your own?
And if you think you have learned anything from Jim, well, the only lesson he has taught has been in how to portray victimhood.
@Zac:
Yes, Zac… I do think Jim was wrong to respond to you in the manner that he did, especially when you’ve been so supportive on both posts. Hopefully, he will apologize and you’ll reconsider commenting on his posts in the future.
Now, I must ask you – from where did you learn that the Brown Shirt were comprised of gay men? This I am unaware of. I’ve always learned of homosexuals in concentration camps – while the Jews were wearing stars, gay men had to wear upside down pink triangles, and were murdered by the thousands in the chambers, along with the jews. Perhaps the truth is a bit more complex, but you’ll have to enlighten me, because your claim is something I haven’t heard before.