The shooter has been identified as Jared Loughner:
Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is in an intensive care unit following surgery for a gunshot wound in the head at close range, the University of Arizona hospital announced Saturday afternoon.
Spokesman Peter Rhee said Giffords is optimistic about the congresswoman’s recovery.
State Sen. Linda Lopez, a close friend of Giffords’, told Fox News that the three-term congresswoman was shot in the temple and the bullet exited through her forehead. Lopez said Giffords was responding to commands and she was confident that she will survive surgery but is not sure what Giffords’ long term prognosis is.
At least 19 people were shot at Giffords’ “Your Corner” event held outside a Safeway grocery store in Tucson, including three members of the Democratic congresswoman’s staff in Arizona. Five have died, including one of Giffords’ aides, and nine are in critical condition at the University of Arizona Medical Center.
My prayers are with all the families effected by this horrible tragedy.
Within minutes of the shooting the liberal nimrods came out in force on twitter and their favorite web haunts to proclaim the Tea Party and Sarah Palin guilty for supposedly pushing this nutcase into shooting the Democrat Congresswoman.
Listening to FOX News, State Senator Linda Lopez told Sheppard Smith she heard the shooter served in the military in Afghanistan. Lopez also talked about the ‘horrible signs’ at Tea Party rallies during the last election.
Within minutes of the shooting:
TeaBagsAreForCups (214 posts)
Sat Jan-08-11 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
14. Looking forward to learning his moniker at the cesspool…… The “Free” Republic.
RimJob will be establishing a memorial contribution account in his name during the current FReepathon.
“Woo hoo!”
Twitter within minutes of the shooting:
@SarahPalinUSA will u be happy when everyone on Your target list is shot dead? Don’t u know there’s crazy people that take things literally?
@McCainBlogette I hope your Dad is happy with the hateful rhetoric he helped perpetuate now. Sarah P’s ‘target’ list is on his hands too.
@markos HAPPY NOW FUCKING TEA BAGGERS?SHE WAS ON PALIN’S “TARGET” LIST. HER BLOOD IS ON YOUR HANDS FOX, BECK AND PALIN!#foxnews #beck #palin
@StaffaRoadTrip She was on Palin’s “target list”. She’s got blood on her hands. Happy now, tea partiers?
Palin six people are dead at shooting of Congresswoman Giffords one of your targets. I hope you are happy.
And on CNN:
AZ Daily Star political cartoonist David Fitzsimmons on @CNN: “The right has been stoking the fires of heated anger and rage” in AZ.
And from our own comments our resident lefty nimrod John Ryan:
there are a lot of nuts out there. And it is real easy for them to get guns capable of killing many people. And it doesn’t take much talk using words like “traitor” or “destroying our country” to set them off. In any school in the USA if a child makes a list marked “hit list” he is going to be in big trouble. When a politician does he/she gets cheers. The Federal Judge that was killed had received many many death threats. And they were not coming from the left.
The Myspace page of the suspect, Jared Loughner, was taken down minutes ago but a screenshot of the pictures has been put up on twitter (not sure if it’s real yet):
He also apparently has a youtube channel with five video’s he made….after viewing them you understand the man is a NUT. He writes (much of it barely coherent) about mindcontrol, brainwashing, a “new currency”, “conscience dreaming”, and oddly enough government control of grammar structure. The youtube channel is here but it will be taken down soon so I downloaded the video’s:
He’s a nut, a Schizo. On his Youtube page check out what he likes!
The Communist Manifesto?
This is a tragedy and NOT the time to point fingers at one party or another, especially considering this guy doesn’t appear to affiliated with either but instead believed the government was controlling his mind.
UPDATE
Picture of the suspect:
See author page
Being obtuse is certainly the angle of the left. Senator Senora Lopez blamed the tea partiers and Afghanistan veterans for causing this horrible disaster. Loughner was a flag burner and not a flag waver. The gunman was never even close to Afghanistan and his military service seems non existent. Apologies forthcoming, but I doubt it.
I wonder if Keef Dolbermann will have the Kos idiot on Olbyplanet on Monday. Maybe, Moultass needs more time to wash his tights and scrub his website.
Each and every Presidential Administration that I have lived through and have memories of have associated with those certain definining moments. These moments may be a picture or words said, but they are in my memory as if etched in stone a defining instant in time;
I was born during the Truman Administration but have few memories of the first two presidents.
Here they are, those Stone Monuments to past Presidents:
#1 All time is JFK . . . “Ask not . . .”
Now the rest:
1. LBJ – “Accordingly I will not seek, nor accept . .”
2. Nixon – Waving goodbye from the door of Marine 1.
3. Ford – Falling to the ground.
4. Carter – “I will have to discuss this with Amy”
5. Reagan – “Berlin Wall . . . as it was torn apart by crowds on TV”
6. GHW – “Read MY Lips!”
7. Slick – “Meaning of the word IS . . . IS”
8. W – “Air Craft Carrier under the Big Sign!”
9. Bummer (so far) – “They bring a knife . . . we bring a gun”
These are memories of words and events that set my perspectives of each Administration. So it is as . . . The World Turns . . . Like sands through the hour glass.
For those who are whimpering about the use of the word “target” and the symbolism of “cross hairs” and such…here are a couple of things for you to contemplate.
From the DLC website there’s this:
Verum Serum found this on the DCCC website (which has now been scrubbed clean):
From the Daily Kos:
Glass houses. Stones. Etc.
It’s almost amazing how the lefties here marched in lockstep. Not one condemned or even criticized their fellow leftists for accusing the right of the shooting the second it was reported, but they did get upset that Curt and others pointed it out. Per those like Tom we are supposed to lay back and take their abuse. How dare we be offended by it. How dare we even mention their kneejerk hate. Now you folks know why I have such contempt for the left. They are NOT good people and prove it over and over.
In spite of evidence coming out that shows he was anything but a “right winger” the left is continuing it’s push to blame the right. They say the media or talk radio may have been the cause. In liberal speak that means Fox news or Conservative talk radio. They know the truth, they just don’t care. They have enemies to destroy.
Wow! I found an awesome site showing screenshots of DailyKos saying Giffords was dead two days ago!
BoyBlue was the diarist and all the commentors agreed that she was dead to them too!
It is breathtaking to watch the left erase the evidence of their words en masse.
Someone here already predicted this.
My prayers and condolences to the victims of this horrific terrorist attack and to their families and friends, and my wishes and prayers to the survivors for a speedy and full recovery.
My other thoughts: so this terrorist’s favorite books are the socialist Communist Manifesto and the socialist Mein Kampf and the socialist, Brave New World; and then he goes out and attempts to kill the first Jewish female Congresswoman from Arizona, but no one is pointing out the leftwing antisemitism (i know, redundant) involved in this terrorist’s actions. CNN within moments of the shootings found a leftwing cartoonist to offer ‘insight’ on it, and guess what the ‘insight’ was? Rightwing extremism was the reason for the shootings, despite the absence of any evidence of motive. This meme was miraculously picked up by many other leftwing kettles, along with the murders were Sarah Palin’s fault meme. So, it’s Palin’s fault that a leftwing nutcase who voted against Bush/Cheney and probably voted against McCain/Palin, shoots a moderate democrat after she voted against Nancy Pelousy for Speaker.
That’s the ticket, liberals. Can you drive your credibility even lower with your irrational attacks and propaganda masquerading as ‘news’?
I sent my message in yesterday about 3 pm. It got caught in moderation, so I have not checked back here until now, 10:42 am, this Sunday. When this is posted, that will tell you how long the “moderation” process works to keep dissenting voices out of FA. I have spoken before here about the nasty language on the right, the violent imagery, the teabaggers bringing guns at Dem political rallies, the birtherism, the general unhinged commentary about war against our government, etc. We have discussed this here at FA, but whenever I point out the problems with wingers, you all consistently respond in one of three ways (a) call me names, (b) claim that liberals do the same thing [as if, if true, that would make it OK], or (c) deny that it ever happened, even when linked to it. If you cons haven’t learned by now, you are not educable, or you are in denial. And I am tired expending words trying to open the minds of people who simply refuse to listen to anything other than the right wing amen corner. I will leave for now with a post I put on a friend’s FB page in response to wingnuts who, as usual, excused the violent language and imagery coming from the right
Andrew and Todd — with all due respect, both you guys are full of sh*t.
I don’t recall ANY incident where lefties brought guns to right wing Congressperson’s events. I don’t recall any incidents where lefties issued death threats over legislation that wingnuts proposed that lefties did not like. Or lefties running ads with their opponents names in cross-hairs, or lefties running events where their opponents pictures are used as shooting targets. Nor were there any incidents of lefties claiming that their opponents were (a) establishing concentration camps, (b) going to forceably euthanize people, (c) going to disarm people, (d) putting enemies of the country into political office, (e) or admonishing people to use “their Second Amendment remedies” if they lose an election, or (f) attempting to destroy the country because of right wing ideology and (g) shadowy leaders pulling the strings to destroy the country, (h) or putting in positions of authority people who advocate violence against political opponents. But if you watch just a single afternoon of Fox News, you will hear each of these apocalyptic claims made against liberals and moderates.
If you look at the history of teabagger rallies and read the signs, or listen to the screaming at the anti-health care reform rallies, or listen to the apocalyptic warnings by wingnut radio hosts, that is EXACTLY what you hear. It is why idiot Sarah Palin “lock and reload” and cross-hairs on Congresswoman Gifford are so friggin chilling. You cons let an under-educated half-term governor lead you . . . not look where we are! Sa Pa, of course, is now scrubbing her Twitter site and acting as if she never put gun sights on Gabby Gifford. Red State cut out a link to a cartoon they ran Saturday morning that, after the shooting, they now deem “inappropriate.” Why was it appropriate Saturday morning, in wingnut minds, if it was violent imagery? Why do wingnuts think violent images are OK in political discourse?
Just as in 1963 and ’68, when wing nuts are not in control of the agenda, they threaten or turn to violence. They try to employ the “hecklers veto” whether it is screaming over other people at a public political rally, coming to a rally packing guns (surely to intimidate opponents . . . what other reason could there be), or threatening the politicians who don’t agree with them. This, of course, is not unlike the Islamists — because they are losing at the ballot box, because things are not going their way among the populace (which still likes Obama and the US, respectively), they turn to apocalyptic language, threaten opponents, and talk about a multifaceted “war” being waged that the patriots/true Muslims have to wage against the enemy. When you talk in such language, you plant seeds in unstable minds that they end up acting on — whether it is MLK, Ruby Ridge, Oklahoma City, 9/11, Dr. Tiller, the Pittsburgh shooter, or Fort Hood. Hell, I remember getting a telephone call in the 90s from a mentally unstable college associate (who I had not seen or heard from in seven years) trying to tell me that Bill Clinton was a drug dealer, the antichrist, and had killed hundreds of people. And yes, there were wingnuts in the House of Representatives who would have agreed with those ramblings of a mentally ill person!
When you tell people that the government is at war against them as evidenced by (shudder!) a government health insurance reform law, or because of “czars” assigned to manage the problems in the auto industry, or because of a government agency following a Supreme Court mandate to regulate pollutants, and you encourage those same people to arm themselves as if they are at war — what the hell do you guys THINK will eventually happen?! That’s right: some unhinged person will actually agree with your paranoid ramblings and do something insane.
And you know the worst part about it, Todd and Andrew? I don’t even think you conservatives actually believe the apocalyptic pronouncements you state! If Obama was really trying to silence opponents, your leaders Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh and Mark Levin would be imprisoned at Gitmo or gunned down in the streets — NOT doing TV and radio shows from large cities! And Obama would not have expanded gun rights in federal parks either, now would he? Nor would he have STOPPED torturing people who are designated “enemy combatants.” “Czars” have been around since the early 1970s and I don’t remember the outcry then or under Reagan or either Bush presidency. And I certainly don’t see any right winger emigrating to other countries because of a loss of freedom here. Nope . . . the right wing is ranting over a loss of POWER, not any actual loss of FREEDOM. But the problem is, as you gnash your teeth over the loss of power and couch it in apocalyptic terms, the unhinged among us . . . they actually believe and act on what you cons say but don’t believe!
If anything comes out of this, I hope it is a bit of introspection on the right. Sarah Palin scrubbing her web site and Red State deleting the comic are a start. But it will be interesting if it lasts, or if right wingers will simply slough off the criticism as “leftist carping.” But your strained analogies and false equivalencies stated here, Brit Hume’s dismissive commentary on Fox News Sunday, and others I have read on the right in the last 18 hours, leave me worried that you guys on the right have not learned a God d*mned thing from what happened yesterday . . . .
I believe liberalism is a form of mental illness, so it’s quite possible that his friends may have mistaken Jared’s insanity for liberalism.
Mata–
Since you’re the consummate researcher, you might be interested in who came up with the idea to blame the Republicans every time there’s an episode of senseless violence. You probably already know who it is, but I just discovered the answer this morning. Hint: He’s a Fox News Contributor.
click here for answer
@anticsrocks:
There is nothing “angry” about referring to teabaggers as “teabaggers” when they went around threatening to “teabag” Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi. But I love the fact that you just ignore the most salient point, which is: when GOPer con leaders like Sarah Palin put frigging cross-hairs on a woman, and her opponent invites people to shoot guns at his rally to “take out Gabby Giffords”, when you have people using Obama’s face as a target for shooting, and when people start bringing guns to political rallies, and bringing such guns are EXCUSED by one side of the political spectrum (gee, wonder who which side THAT was), or assaulting a woman, then claiming she was responsible for her own stomping . . . you are setting in motion delusions in warped minds.
People in the left are dismissive of Sarah Palin and many despise her; but since lefties are not all jazzed up about guns like the right is, you don’t see anyone putting her in gun sights, now do you? But if someone on the left did put gun sights on Sa Pa, or did to right wing pols what wingnuts aimed at libs, would we be surprised if some lefty who thinks CIA robots are tracking him might take a shot at Sa Pa? No, we would not. So, contrary to what Trent Franks (R -Az.) just said on Meet the Press, we DO need to be careful about what we say about our opponents. It sets a tone that easily influenced people, both sane and insane, will follow. So yo don’t bring guns to a Palin rally, you don’t put gunsights on her, you don’t tell people she is trying to kill babies, and you don’t claim she is a threat to American and must be stopped using “Second Amendment remedies.” You just don’t do that.
The chickens are coming home to roost . . . and those chickens are pooping on the wingnuts’ roof right now . . . . For once, cons, be introspective and think about where you might have gone wrong on this violence issue.
Firstly, this is a horrible tragedy, and even more so that it happened in America.
The fact that anyone would blame anyone (0ther than the gunman), is I think, metaphoric for what’s really wrong with this country. We’ve just become a nation of blamers, insulters, and false accusers (sadly including our own president , top law makers, and MSM). It’s one lie and insult after another, with most never giving a thought to the consequences, only who got or gets the last dig.
The reality is a nutcase and probably mentally distrubed kid is to blame.
My point is that while we (0n both sides and in the middle), immerse ourselves in who said what, we continue to be a politically ‘scorecard driven’ bunch of Americans, with few if any to ever give a thought to the fact that we, as people, have lost our way. God is out of vogue, human life no longer has the value it deserves, and personal responsibility went by the way long ago, so why should any of us be surprised at what we, as a people, have become.
Despite the blame rightly being that of the gunman, how we react to it says eveything about us.
Perhaps the biggest lesson in this tragedy is that we are destroying ourselves, no gunman needed!
p.s. FWIW, Rep Gabby is a big fan of guns.
p.p.s. Now we have a beautiful mother of two fighting for her life, a dead 9 year old, a brilliant dead judge, and that’s just for starters. I’m not implying that there certainly aren’t compassionate hearts out there, only that there are more hearts concerned with the political outcome than the human outcome.
@eaglewingz08:
Why did Sarah Palin just scrub her web site of the cross-hairs ad? Why did Red State pull down a cartoon that they had up Saturday morning because it was “inappropriate” after the shooting? Why did Gabby Gifford’s opponent have people shooting guns at a rally to “take out” Congresswoman Giffords? Why the guns at Gabby Gifford’s political rally, carried by A TEABAGGER OPPOSED TO HEALTH CARE REFORM?
Think about that . . . all this anger about health insurance reform . . . not a draft to fight a bad war, not government putting cameras in people’s homes to monitor their activities . . . but a package of health insurance reforms that include subsidies to business, elimination of pre-existing conditions prohibitions, and electronic record keeping. That’s serious enough to bring a gun to a political rally? Really?
Yeah, I put some of this on Palin: because Palin is the one who put a woman in gun sights because she disagreed with her politics. And Palin was proud of it, too . . . until a nut seized on that and acted on it. If Sa Pa had a bit of wisdom, she wouldn’t have run that ad, or the insufferable and now deleted “Lock and Load” tweet, and she would have dropped them when people pointed out that they were incendiary. But the word “wisdom” and the name “Sarah Palin” are rarely used in the same sentence, are they?
Billy Bob, the “teabagger” with the gun is not the one who shot everyone up. It was a fan of the Communist Manifesto. Without knowing for sure, it’s more likely he’s a disgruntled leftist socialist, unhappy that that nation didn’t completely turn into his communist paradise. Or he lived in that grey area where left/right extremism blur, and in the end, just used politics to excuse his own insane anger at whatever.
But one thing is for sure…. a wannabe commie is not likely to be a fan of Palin.
No surprise you’d “… put some of this on Palin..”, because like most lib/progs, you tend to blame everyone else but the gunman.
ADDED: Gifford, while in support of healthcare, was a moderate who was a supporter of both gun rights, and additional efforts to protect AZ’s border. A “teabagger” would attack that type of moderate Dem… why?
Bees, that box is now gone.
🙁
This thought occurred to me overnight.
There’s a Bible verse that reminds parents to punish/train their unruly children quickly, lest they grow up set in their bad ways.
Jared had two instances where he went too far with intoxicants: once with drugs and once with drink.
When the police caught him with the drugs he escaped punishment by going into a treatment program instead.
When he drank so much he was poisoned by alcohol he was also put into a treatment program….possibly one that involved “Aversion Therapy.”
His recent focus on ”brain washing” leads me to believe he was in at least one Aversion Therapy program.
Those things are brain washing!
They can involve talk therapy with or without drugs.
But he was never punished for his out of control behavior.
Had he been punished he would later have NOT have been allowed to BUY THAT GUN!
Too bad our country has been taken over by bleeding hearts who think they are ”helping” these unruly youths by going easy on them.
Every now and again their softy ideas work, but too often their victims become hardened in their ways to become even worse than they were.
Poor Mr. ParaLegal Man…
His career is on the skids. He’s working night jobs just to make the ends meet. And now…his “right wing shooter” “Sarah Palin caused it” meme is being dashed on the rocks.
During all of his attempts to assail Sarah Palin as being the one responsible because she used “crosshairs” imagery in some Interwebz ad…which she most likely didn’t even design or approve…he conveniently ignores the cumbersome fact that yesterday’s shooter was a Leftist who was, undoubtedly, not influenced in any way by Palin. Of course, we all know that the lack of supporting facts…and the presence of controverting evidence…means nothing to the failed barrister.
He also conveniently ignores the use of targets and bullseye imagery by those on his side of the aisle.
How convenient that ParaLegal Man…who’s not even worthy of being a paralegal anymore…would simply ignore what is difficult and cumbersome for him while hoping against hope that we will as well.
Too bad that didn’t work out for him.
@B-Rob:
DailyKOS put a bullseye target on Gifford last year.
And Daily KOS called for her to be considered dead TWO DAYS AGO!
Thanks for playing…
From Jim Hoft over at Gateway Pundit….a collection of “violent rhetoric”:
Obie should denounce himself for creating a poisonous, and potentially violent, political environment.
@B-Rob:
Uh, Brob, have a look here:
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=imghp&biw=1362&bih=583&q=kill+bush&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=g2&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=
And stay tuned. I have something coming I think you’ll really hate! 🙂
@Aye:
That’s right where I’m going, Aye. I am going to pin the blame where it really belongs.
Via Instapundit – Democrat Harry Mitchell puts his opponent in the crosshairs:
Gosh this sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander stuff is fun.
AYE CHIHUAHUA ,hi, yes it is, just whatch B-Rob RETHORIC, he represent exactly what his side from top to bottom has been playing wth that is ‘VIOLENCE AND HATE against the opponants critisizing,
the reckless spending of them, bringning AMERICA further downward,
they have been using that game to cover up their mischief, and turned the AMERICANS against each other, using any chance to demonyse the other party; that is blacks against whites ,poors against richs
and immigrants against true AMERICANS, and so on non stop, being help by their own MEDIA from the beginning
Crazy Broken-Bob;
Can you not see that the people who frequent FA are as upset as you are about yesterdays events. I send my condolensces to YOU as you are going to need them. Wake up see where the nasty rhetoric started. Never in my entire life did I ever expecet see a President challeng the constituency with such “Ghetto Slang” Obama has used. Certainly he appears to be a Harvard educated person, it is proven that he was there. What is not proven is what he learned there. Certainly the Ghettohood is still part of his personality. This is weird beyond anything that I have ever seen. The very concept that the Tea Party will die, as said by Harry-the-sage this morning, is beyond comprehension. He may as well have said Patriotism will die. Stupid is as Stupid does . . . even a Hollywood retard seemed to understand that.
@B-Rob:
Well it appears that Palin might have gotten the idea about the “Cross Hairs” from the liberals!
Sad, but B-Rob is projecting his own party’s failings onto this political opposition.
Mata, you fool, did you read ANYTHING I said? Either you did not read it or I used words too big for you to understand. Let me put it differently:
When it becomes “OK” to bring guns to political rallies, becomes “OK” to threaten to used “Second Amendment remedies” if you lose an election, become “OK” to claim that political opponents are trying to destroy America (because they disagree with your policy choices), becomes “OK” to use the president’s face as a shooting target, becomes “OK” to claim the president is a terrorist, becomes “OK” to put cross-hairs on a woman, becomes “OK” to threaten a member of Congress over a vote on health care reform — when all that become acceptable, you have sunk to a low level of discourse that becomes destructive and dangerous. Indeed, I think this woman, who you may recognize, explained it best:
Prescient, that. And despite the treats and the vandalism, she refused ton knuckle under.
A guy I know is a retired TV weatherman. He was once accosted in the parking lot at work by a man who claimed Don was saying evil things about his mother. Don had no idea what the guy was talking about, so he walked him into the station (where they had security) to discuss the matter with the producers, who Don said “They tell me what to say.” Turns out, the guys mom’s name was something like “Cora” and Don had spent a week talking about a “violent, destructive, threatening, deadly, huge ” hurricane of the same name. You never know where an insane person’s mind can take things.
If using a woman’s name in connection with a violent storm sent such a message to that guy, what do you think the effect of all the apocalyptic talk coming from the right (because y’all lost elections) would have on a similar person?
The teabaggers did not put the gun in the guys head; but they maybe did put the IDEA in his head that Giffords and her ilk were some kind of threat to his life. After all . . . isn’t that what you guys have SAID for the last two years, that Giffords and people like her were trying to “destroy America”, destroy the military, institute forced euthanasia of the elderly, take away all the guns, socialize all the industries, institute sharia law, kill babies, setting up concentration camps, etc., etc.? Haven’t you cons said just that? Yes, you all have. So take some responsibility when marginal minds BELIEVE the insane commentary you cons are offering.
Ivan —
I won’t really respond to your weak “everybody’s doing it” kind of argument that would cause you to fail a ninth grade logic class. Suffice it to say, your leader, Sarah Palin, took down her cross-hairs ad, and NOW has an aide claiming they never put cross-hairs on Giffords’ district . . . now, that ad was all about “cross hairs like you’d see on a map.” Uh, huh . . . which is why Sarah Palin referred to “bull eyes” in a subsequent tweet?
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/01/palin-aide-crosshairs-on-target-list-not-actually-gun-sights.php?ref=fpb
As I said before: it is the gun sights, the bringing of guns to political rallies, the vandalism, the death threats, the racial slurs, the violent imagery, the Arizona jack-leg preacher’s “prayer” that Michelle Obama be made a widow . . . that is what I have a beef with. And you cons simply refuse to accept any responsibility for what was going on that led to this atmosphere and this inevitable shooting.
Yeah, I said inevitable . . . because as it was said time and again, when you stoke people up like that, using apocalyptic and violent language, some nut is actually gonna believe it is the apocalypse and act upon it. So spare me the links to lefties doing X, Y, and Z. It still does not excuse what was going on to a much greater degree on the right.
@Braindead Rob: You said:
So you are just ignoring this?
Or this?
Or this?
Or this?
Or how about this?
No, it is much easier to spew your hateful rhetoric. You know very well that the term teabagger is used as an insult, yet you lower yourself to denigrate an entire segment of the American public.
I will admit that I insult you when I call you Braindead Rob or Silly Rob, etc… I am denigrating you. However that is an individual slur and also not a vulgar sexual slur such as teabagger. You paint with a broad brush and look down upon, insult and dismiss millions of people. When that is done with skin color, it is racism. Are you telling us that you are as bad as a racist? Do you think that ALL members of the Tea Party movement are hateful, mean spirited, spiteful people?
You claim you are a liberal. What is the definition of a liberal?
lib·er·al
/ˈlɪbərəl, ˈlɪbrəl/
–adjective
1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2. (often initial capital letter) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
6. of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.
7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant: a liberal attitude toward foreigners.
8. open-minded or tolerant, esp. free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc. – Source
Seems you just aren’t living up to your own ideals, there B-Rob.
Now then, as far as folks from the Tea Party movement claiming to want to teabag someone. Proof please.
Aye —
There are some very good rehab programs out there. I think you need some kind of intervention, dude.
@Braindead Rob: You said:
So if your side does it, then it is okay? You are comfortable with the plethora of examples of lefties using hateful rhetoric and, as you claim, inciting violence?
If the left incites violence or urges the death of Bush, then that is okay. You are tolerant of free speech then. Yet when some loony bin tries to kill a Democratic Congressperson, you claim that he did it because the right made him?
Where in the hell do you get that from? What is the connection between Loughner and ANYTHING the right has done or said? The guy is a far left loon and yet he still attacks and kills because, what? He follows the right?
So he is a lefty who evidently does not like the right, but yet he lets them “tell him” to commit these acts of atrocity?
Again, where is the connection? How many Tea Party rallies do you suppose he attended? How often do you suppose he tuned into those evil right wing radio talk show hosts?
You are so far wrong on this, it isn’t even funny. This is even more wrong that you usually are, B-Rob. And that is really saying something.
When it becomes “OK” to bring guns to political rallies
So exercising one’s right to bare arms is now “verbotten”??
What horse-shit is this?
B-Rob, do you think that you can insult people and get away with it. you represent the ones who started the war speech, and because they are in power ,they can say anything to other party,
OFFENSING OTHER HAS BEEN DONE BY OTHER PRESIDENT BUT IT WAS DIRECTED TO THE ENNEMIES OF AMERICA, AND THE DIFFRENCE WITH YOUR PARTY IS OFFENDING AMERICA,
YOU ALL ARE NOT FOOLING ANY ONE HERE WITH YOUR ATTACK ON THESE GOOD AMERICANS, WITH THOSE ACCUSATIONS, IS TO REALY SEE WHERE IS THE RIGHT SIDE TRUE AMERICANS WHO WOULD NEVER SELL THEIR COUNTRY, THEY HAVE SPEND THEIR BLOOD TO PROTECT IT, WHAT HAVE YOU ALL DONE FOR YOUR COUNTRY AT THIS TIME
EXCEPT DIVIDE IT AND SPREAD HATE AND ANGER, YES IT’S YOU AND YOUR GANG WHO ARE IN THE WRONG SIDE THERE, HERE AT FA,, IT’S THE TOLERANT SIDE OF AMERICA
@Billy Bob, you dolt, but of course I read your less than crypic words, using this event to now add gun control rantings to your delusions about Palin’s involvement. While all of us conservatives here find the actions of Loughner deplorable, we find those of you and drive by johnny ryan, eager to find some way to tie him to speech or Constititional rights you don’t like, just as deplorable. Perhaps even being not far away from being the raving lunatic that Loughner turned out to be.
The fact you’d want to ban guns at particular events just exhibits more of your nanny government mentality. First you suggest a “teabagger” shot at Gifford, which isn’t true. Then you backtrack your lies, and suggest that a “teabagger” *inspired* a lunatic.
Then you say the below picture is responsible….
…. yet ignore the 2008 Daily KOs bullseye targets that @Ivan linked above because it then becomes inconvenient to your anti-constitutional, Marxist political rantings.
As far as AZ concealed carry laws, and public events. Had it been more obvious and common that more people utilizing concealed carry would be at that rally, it’s unlikely they would have had to wait for this cockroach of a human to reload before citizens tackled him. Gifford was an RKBA supporter, as well as a tough immigration advocate. But she was also a moderate Democrat. However, were that an NRA rally, where attendees would know that firearms were likely to be available en masse, that scumbag might have thought twice about opening up with a 30 capacity magazine.
But none of this is about gun control, or Loughner’s political beliefs. It’s about the sad and needless loss of life of six people, and the others injured in addition to Gifford due to a defective human. It’s also about the number of times that police, university officials and perhaps even Loughner’s close friends chose to ignore that ticking time bomb in front of their faces.
The fault of this event lies solely with Loughner… not society, and not even with those who missed all the tell tale signs leading up to it. The latter is just a sad commentary on how many ignore evidence before their eyes, and choose not to be involved.
But you cannot make laws that prevent losers like Loughner from doing misdeeds. That’s part of the “shit happens” category, and something we all accepted as part of the price paid for our freedoms.
But no… you always need to find anyone other than the perp to blame, don’t you? There’s never a moment for taking responsibility for self with you, is there? I guess if there were, you’d be out of a job.
I mentioned you backtracked from your original accusation that Loughner was “a teabagger”:
Wait? You mean Daily KOs? LOL
And now we’re down to a “maybe”??? Desperate when your lifeline to talking points is yanked away, eh Billy Bob?
Tell me, Billy Bob, with the violence and raw sex in movies, video games, reality and episodic TV shows these days, why do you think that violence or violent rhetoric is confined to politics?
Assuming you’ve managed to figure out from what we’ve learned to date that his politics are so demented as to be meshed in the extremist world of both left and right, why do you even assume it was political motivation at all, and not just acting out some blanket hate, frustration and anger? After all, he announced he was ready to kill a police man (how “tea party’ish, eh?) prior to this. No one reported it. No one did anything about getting this guy off the streets.
He was a loon, and was worthy of being thinned from the herd. I’m only sorry there weren’t more utilizing their concealed carry in that crowd who would mow him down before he emptied his magazine. That you want to go the opposite direction doesn’t surprise me, nor that you can even comprehend that an armed society is not only a deterrent, but a far more polite society (witness DC’s increased decline in crime after Heller, instead of the rise that you gun control freaks predict).
You are a pathetic little man, Billy Bob. Your regular racist rants and partisan hatred here on FA know no bounds, as we’ve all seen. But it does become oh so amusing watching your desperate attempts to justify your rants and raves with the absurd. You ought to be careful…. Loughner suffered from that same problem.
@B-Rob:
BRob
I want something from you.
I want you to say “Thank you” to Curt.
Oh yes… and linked from thread, another Dems “target” election map graphs.
As I said on the other thread, Billy Bob. Palin isn’t responsible for this lunatic and his murders anymore than the Dems or Daily KOs is. Give it up.
drjohn, hi, HE’ll never do it, because he is too full of himself, like his group,
best to you for 2011
@MataHarley:
*yawn*
You cons sure are defensive for people who claim no responsibility whatsoever for what happened! I bet if you go to lefty websites, they are not defensive in the face of your allegations. In fact, I bet they are angry . . . not because of the weak tea arguments that “libs are responsible” (yeah . . . like it was libs bringing guns to political rallies and threatening pro-health care reform congressmen). No, libs are mad that the shooting happened at all. They are mad about the ubiquity of guns. And they are mad because they PREDICTED all along something like this would happen, and now it has.
My mom told me a story once. She was in a gas station and a young Black male drove in with loud rap music booming. She saw that he had a baby in a car seat in the car. Being a nurse, she walked up to the young man and told him that he should turn the music down because it would damage the baby’s hearing. The dude proceeded to cuss her out: it wasn’t hurting the baby, she should mind her own business, etc., etc. He then pumped his gas, got in his car and started to drive out . . . but she heard him TURN THE MUSIC DOWN as he drove out the gas station lot.
I really don’t give a shiznit whether any of you are willing to state here that this shiznit has to end. I don’t even care if you even call me names or go on tangents about how the libs are REALLY to blame. But just like the young Black male in the gas station, I only ask that, after you leave here, TURN THE NOISE DOWN.
There is a side of me that believes something good will come out of this, maybe a lot less violent rhetoric, less gun toting, and a bit more listening instead of yelling. But that depends on whether you cons are willing or able to have some introspection. The ball is in your court . . . .
Reading disability surfaces again with you. Everyone here is mad it happened. Only you wacky lib/progs, with an aversion to the RKBA, are mad about guns…. which this kid obtained legally because he was failed to be prosecuted by police for previous events in his life. um…. that’s a gun problem, how? Would that not fall into the same category as immigration problems and the refusal to enforce our laws?
Yeah.. you all “predict” a lot about guns. Odd that Heller and DC crime stats prove that none of you would be profitable as tarot card readers….
What is predictable is you wacky progs are appalled that this defective human didn’t turn out to be a tea partier after all. And, in fact, considering his rants and ravings, isn’t likely to be politically motivated at all, but just the result of being a lunatic, acting out on his anger and frustrations. Bummer that, all of the sudden, you lost your favorite scapegoat, eh?
I repeat… you are a pathetic little Pollyanna. In your totalitarian world, we’d all be stripped of our 2nd amendment rights so you can erroneously believe you’d be safe when, in fact, the best protection you can have is the ability to fight back. Or that those you want to strip of their rights would save your sorry butt.
Me? I’d just let you flounder. Thinning of the herd and all that jazz.
This from one of the more prominent purveyors of hate speech on FA. The irony abounds.
I’d says the “noise” volume could be reduced alot with your FA exit, Billy Bob.
Thanks, Bees and to you as well!
@Ivan:
If you cannot intuitively understand why it is a bad idea to bring a gun to a political rally , then you are too dumb to even discuss the intersection of the First and Second Amendments and the need to regulate the Second so that the First can thrive. It’s akin to “a heckler’s veto” using guns. Guess the idea that my right to speak and seek the redress of grievances against the government, is threatened by you using guns to oppose me might be beyond your grasp. But if you don’t grasp the idea, just google the names “George Wallace” and “Sqeeeky Frome”, and google “Greensboro KKK massacre” while you are at it to see other reasons why guns should not be brought to a political rally. Just sayin’ . . . .
@MataHarley:
Mata, that last post was crack-smoking dumb. Did you see me ANYWHERE at any time call for gun control, or even talk about the gun? No. I did not say anything about “guns being the problem” nor would I because guns, per se, are not the issue, no matter what any libs might say. Which is why on any SANE political scale (i.e., not yours, since “sane” and “Mata” don’t get used together too often), I would be classified as a moderate. But because I am not a wingnut, you cons classify me as a “liberal” . . . whatever . . . not the first time cons have been laughably wrong about things political.
No, Mata, my point is simple — you cons ginned up apocalyptic language and now have seen it go out of control . . . just as some predicted. The shoe fits and it hurts to wear it.
Short memory of the past 10 years and apocalyptic language, eh Billy Bob? Or just convenient partisan memory loss?
Why yes, you did.
You first start out with a “you oughta” voluntary ‘tude, then move casually into the “just when did it become okay” arena. But you constantly harp on guns anywhere at a political rally. Or perhaps we misunderstand your gun/political rally fixations, and you are ready to mandate slaps on the hand when it’s violated. LOL
Maybe you’re unaware of those that brought guns to Bush political rallies because they were responsible concealed carry owners who didn’t commit mass burder, bozo. duh wuh… We have documented guns at tea party rallies. Funny… no murder sprees.
More of your nonsense “screed”, as you like to call it?
Ya mean like the Dem electoral map and the Daily KOs electoral map? Yuh… “friggin’ chilling”. I’m quaking in my boots. But then, I’m not like you and blaming them for inspiring demented humans. Nor does the terminology associated with handling weapons strike fear deep in my heart, like it does you. Maybe you should have done some service to the country, and learned to be around weapons yourself, Billy Bob. Kinda embarrassing to see what a wuss you are.
While I know plenty of liberals who are pro 2nd Amendment and enjoy weapons for various reasons (you not being one of them…), why would a party member that has an inordinate amount of fear by citizens bearing guns do that? Gee… I dunno… Maybe you’ll have to ask the Dem party and Daily KOs why they did the same to conservatives running for re’election on their graphs, yes? Since similar gifs have already been provided to you, we all note you slink under your rock and throw out another oral fart as a distraction bomb instead of responding.
Hey… we’re still waiting for you to prove that is the motive. What do you know that the FBI (they sent Mueller down there) or the local/state enforcement officers don’t, Billy Bob. Do you have contact with the shooter? In which case, why are you sitting on your fat azz?
In fact, in the tirades Loughner does do, health care isn’t mentioned EVER. Rather a presumptuous leap to assumptions on your part, don’t you think? What’s a matter… your paralegal off today and not reigning you in on imaginary PC before you opt to stand before the FA bench?
Considering what we do know about his political tirades… which end up sliding from extreme left to extreme right, but always remain in the extreme, plus adding his friends’ from school noting he was a “radical” leftist, I’d say you’re gonna have a problem pushing your horse manure. You’ve lost the “he’s a tea party” accusation… so sorry. In fact, you’ve lost every point on this you’ve tried to make. And oddly enough, I’ve not heard you express condolences or sorrow to this point. Which, of course, makes your compassion non-existant.
Frankly, as I have said repeatedly as more info comes out, I don’t think politics was the motive at all. Just a convenient excuse to go completely mad and commit a murder spree.
R Bob,
The trouble with your cute little illustration about the baby, the black guy, his loud music and your mom is this:
The black man’s own conscience agreed with your mom that he probably was hurting his baby’s hearing. (Was she in a nurse’s uniform? That usually helps.)
But as regards rhetoric, there is nothing wrong with expressing opinions…..even weak or incorrect ones.
When a person expresses his opinion based on fallacies he is shot down quickly because his reasonings are weak.
Jared used fallacious syllogisms, for instance.
When a person expresses an opinion that cannot be refuted because it is based on truth the normal thing to do is realize this and adjust your thinking accordingly.
But instead that is when the LEFT tries every arrow in its collective quiver to end the ”debate.”
Sometimes they even try to prevent the debate from starting.
Remember anti-war ”Mother” Sheehan? (Untouchable, therefore irrefutable.)
Remember the IPCC of the UN and their ”global warming is settled science” lie?
Remember Obama pushing through his health care with his ”the time for debate is over?”
Now you, Linda Lopez, the sheriff, Shep Smith, Geraldo, plenty of pundits on other channels and media all saying to tone down the rhetoric.
No!
You can’t win a debate about open borders, Sanctuary Cities, health care, immigration, taxes, the deficit, radicalized Muslims ,net neutrality and so on by presenting facts.
So you want to shut all debate down.
Sorry.
It is NOT going to stop.
I rarely listen to Rush, but I bet he’s going to be worth the time on Monday.
Errr…
That’s just from this thread.
I have no idea who posted all those things since ParalLegal Man told us that “guns, per se, are not the issue, no matter what any libs might say.”
I see you caught more than I did, Aye. I’d say that pretty much cinches Billy Bob’s fixated on the guns/political rallies talking point. Oh, but of couse it doesn’t mean he’s advocating any type of gun control… /sarc
This has had me stunned for a couple of days and have been glued to the television set, my heart breaks for the family of Christina Green, all other victims and family members as well. It was a roller coaster for me yesterday in the early hours regarding Rep. Gabrielle Giffords condition, she’s got a long way to go, all, the Tuscon community as well are in our prayers.
Now, shall we clear up the guns to Obama events issue?
Those that took guns to Obama’s meetings were doing it to draw attention to their right to carry cause. Prior to the events the specific groups informed local police they would be there armed and officers and SS were provided to shadow them.
I found this while perusing Instapundits eliminationist rhetoric and inflamatory language….. catalog. He also includes many, many examples of the left’s lengthy penchant for violence.
http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/?s=ELIMINATIONIST
And, here are photos that group took that day:
http://www.arizonashooting.com/v3/viewtopic.php?p=595650&sid=0fbf4644e712e7f19672d0f708a626b8#p595650
@Braindead Rob:
You are a pathetic excuse for what passes as intelligent debate. You consistently avoid answering my questions because you are afraid to. Or maybe you just don’t have the balls to step up and really, intelligently debate this issue. It is much easier for you to lie, dissemble, insult, call names and paint with a broad brush.
I posit that you are only capable of being intellectually dishonest and to whit, I submit that you repeatedly refuse to answer my questions.
Let me refresh your cowardly memory:
First I posted the definition of liberal, and show how you do not even live up to that label –
Then in another post, I asked –
And lastly, I am asking this –
What is your proof that Loughner was motivated by ANYTHING said or done by anyone on the right?
I am willing to bet a large sum that you are too friggin’ cowardly to step up and answer the above questions.
What was the name of the band Jared was so wild about?
Anti-Flag.
Seen their web site?
Background wallpaper=
Che’
MLK.
”the People United” w/ peace sign.
Even Wikipedia says anti-Flag is: “known for its outspoken political views. Much of the band’s lyrics have focused on fervent anti-war activism, criticism of United States foreign policy, corporatism, U.S. wealth distribution, and various sociopolitical sentiments.”
“Music has Charms to sooth a savage Breast,” and originated in The mourning bride, by William Congreave in 1697.
But what if one chooses music that does quite the opposite?
@MataHarley:
Hmmm, this Dana Loesch post has me wondering. Wouldn’t Sarah Palin & company know the difference between a surveyor’s symbol and a crosshairs symbol? Perhaps they took it down because people like me wouldn’t know the difference.
http://bigjournalism.com/dloesch/2011/01/09/the-difference-between-purveyor-symbols-and-crosshairs/
Missy, there’s lots of symbols for the PLSS system in the nation. I’ve never seen that symbol on any of the topos I’ve used, but then a lot of these topos go back to the 70s. So a key legend I often used to see if I could spy it in there.
The symbol used on the Palin maps is for a boundary monument with a tablet.
Whether Palin & company knew the difference or not, I don’t know. I would suggest that Palin intended for them to be crosshairs in general interpretation because the crosshairs in a scope are too detailed for such a small symbol on the map. This was simplistic, and clear in visual. No different than a bulleye in intent.
All this horse manure about bullseyes and targets potentially being banned by legislation is really making me nervous now…. the tip toeing around the water cooler is about to grow massively with yet another knee jerk reaction to a sad sack of a human and his scumbag actions. Nothing like fear to pump people up into yielding their freedoms.
But of course those idiots would never consider how many people came into contact with this wacko, and never alerted authorities that he should probably be on a watch list. It’s not like I’m into turning people in, because that too has it’s dangers. Big Brother watching you, etal. But just as vigilant citizens thwarted the Times Square bombing by paying attention, vigilant citizens could have prevented this tragedy by paying attention. Nothing to do with guns, and nothing to do with symbols.
MISSY, wow that is so important to know,
the diffrence between our smart FA group and the MEDIA ATTACH TO THE DEMOCRATS AND THOSE WHO BELIEVE THEM WITH THEIR EYES CLOSE,
THANK YOU
APOLOGY TO SARAH A MUST
@Missy:
Anyone who deals with document publication and printing as I do will recognize that the symbols on that map are also an exact representation of the printer’s registration (lineup) marks that you see in Corel or PhotoShop type programs.
MATA, hi, yes that vigilance sshould have rang a bell, somewhere to stop that action,
what would they have done with it that is the question also,
that guy was fix to do a kill, and the fact that he shot many other meant that it was most aiming to just kill,
and he pick that woman to give himself an excuse to go and shoot some good peoople,
they might get arrested but they get out with the same fix in their brain no matter how long the time it takes
I knew Braindead Rob would be too lacking in the cajones department to answer my questions.
C’mon Rob.
I DARE YOU to be honest enough to answer my questions without your usual rhetoric.
Anyone else notice how quiet the Leftist front has gotten?
Saturday and yesterday they were crowing from the rooftops about Palin and “crosshairs” and “targets” and such….
Today….now that we’ve discovered that the AZ shooter is a flag-burning, devil worshiping, cop hating, radical Leftist, and a registered Dimocrat….they’ve fallen strangely silent.
Is that the sound of crickets that I hear? Why, yes, I think it is.
Yesterday, they couldn’t crow loudly enough. Today…well, today, they don’t have anything left to crow over. All of their precious memes lie in broken shards on the floor. One by one by one the theories have fallen apart.
So desperately they tried. So pathetically they have failed.
AYE CHIHUAHUA ,hi, yes but we still have to be on GUARD, because thet are vicious