♫♪♪In the navy
Yes, you can sail the seven seas
In the navy
Yes, you can put your mind at ease
In the navy
Come on now, people, make a stand
In the navy, in the navy
Can’t you see we need a hand♫♪♪
-The Village People
So apparently Navy Capt. Owen Honors has been relieved of his command. But why now? 4 years after the fact?
It is not clear why the videos are surfacing only now, or whether high-ranking Navy officials were aware of the videos earlier and decided to promote Honors to the USS Enterprise’s top job despite their content. But once the Virginian-Pilot newspaper reported on the videos Saturday and published an edited version on the Internet, the Navy moved quickly to condemn the videos and launch an investigation.
~~~The videos surfaced less than two weeks after President Obama signed legislation repealing the military’s longstanding ban on openly gay service members.
I don’t know what “gay slurs” were used in the video; and maybe the video was in “poor taste” (and maybe it was a “morale booster”/boredom reliever for most of those serving); and maybe it was an exercise of “poor judgment” (how can you not see the potential for the easily offended and political correctness posse to make a big stink of this?) and not fitting of an XO; but in a time of war, given the totality of the captain’s honorable service record, was relieving him of his command really the necessary, appropriate reprimand? Was this such a serious “lapse of good judgment” that his qualifications of leadership are now completely null and void?
“The Navy does not endorse or condone these kinds of actions,” Cmdr. Chris Sims, a Navy spokesman, said before the action against Honors was announced. “Those in command . . . are charged to lead by example and are held accountable for setting the proper tone and upholding the standards of honor, courage and commitment that we expect sailors to exemplify.”
The Navy has traditionally moved faster than other U.S. military services to relieve officers of command when they are believed to have acted improperly. A spate of commanders have been disciplined in this way in the past year, for offenses ranging from sexual misconduct to running ships aground.
Have we lost honorable soldiers on account of DADT? Probably. Do we now stand to lose effective soldiers on account of its repeal? Looks like it.
As for gay slurs, I don’t know. Here’s a possible defense: What if he contends that he himself is gay — would that be kind of like Poles telling Polish jokes?
CJ:
Let’s be honest, the videos were not politically correct, but they contained messages of importance that every command must convey to their subordinates. I’ve heard from many people directly who were either on those deployments and saw the videos firsthand or viewed them later. Their response was that, for the first time ever, those messages were actually watched by Sailors on the ship.
Typically, military command messages are monotonous, cheesy, dry and boring. Not “or”, but “AND.”
The Navy has to the endure a different type of suckiness than land forces do when they deploy. By and large, they are confined the ship on which they are assigned. Unlike Soldiers and Marines, Sailor do not get to drive into town, move from camp to camp, etc. They are stuck in confined spaces with perhaps a tenth of the personal space that ground combat forces enjoy during their deployments. The mood gets pretty crabby and I’m sure the Capt Honors understood that and did a great job livening the mood on board the ship.
Of course some people found it offensive. As a Christian, I found it distasteful, but I also saw the humor in it and thought it was a brilliant stroke of genius. I’m a firm believer in the FACT that people CHOOSE to be offended. It’s their choice that they find anything offensive. I choose not to be offended by anything and it has enriched my life immensely. It also saves me a lot of stress.
The videos in question occured four years ago! Capt Honors was not even in command at the time, yet the Navy is only NOW relieving him because of the media hoopla. This isn’t about doing the right thing, it’s about appeasing the media and politically stupid among us. There’s a reason the videos were only confined to the 2006-2007 time period. The command had already dubbed the videos to not be in the keeping of the message the Navy was trying to convey and ended them. Yet, we’re rehashing this stupidity and ruining the career of a good Naval fighter because someone chose to be offended.
A former fetus, the “wordsmith from nantucket” was born in Phoenix, Arizona in 1968. Adopted at birth, wordsmith grew up a military brat. He achieved his B.A. in English from the University of California, Los Angeles (graduating in the top 97% of his class), where he also competed rings for the UCLA mens gymnastics team. The events of 9/11 woke him from his political slumber and malaise. Currently a personal trainer and gymnastics coach.
The wordsmith has never been to Nantucket.
Gutsy title, Word.
Love it.
And that’s the way it is- it only takes one stupid person to be offended and the world collapses around everyone else. Nevermind the feelings of the vast majority.
nail on the head doc
“Rebecca Konshak, who said she was a hospital corpsman and viewed some of the videos…believes the Navy should investigate who was gunning for Captain Honors and why.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_lewd_navy_video
Has the Navy forgotten how skits played a part in morale-building during Korea and WWII?
My dad spoke very laughingly about this way back when.
Why should an update to videos over live shows be so bad?
I saw the video in question. I thought it hilarious. Of course, I’m the daughter and mother of military officers, and I get why they really do need levity like Honors gave them. The absurd faux shock of the media over the video’s admittedly politically incorrect contents is more offensive than the video itself. Far worse, and far less funny, material appears regularly on TV shows like Family Guy and South Park.
The true shame is that an outstanding officer like Owen Honors (look up his accomplishments) loses his career over something that–were it really an outrage–he would have been fired for long before the repeal of DADT. God help our wussified military.
The Current Gates DOD does not have a sense of humor. The film in question is a Career Killer
under the Current Regime. They will trade off Readiness for Diversity and Political Correctness
at the drop of a hat.
The left loves hanging military members as they know they tend not to be leftists.
Watched the video and yeah it was goofy from the XO of a ship, but relieve a proven leader is poor judgement on the command. This PC crap has been an increasing problem in the military and the country.
This is TAILHOOK 2. Remember that incident?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tailhook_scandal
*****************************************************
In September 1991, the 35th annual symposium in Las Vegas featured a two-day debrief on Navy and Marine Corps aviation in Operation Desert Storm. It was the largest such meeting yet held, with some 4,000 attendees: active, reserve, and retired personnel.
After his return to the USS Midway, in port in Seattle for Seafair, then Tailhook president CAPT Rick Ludwig pulled all Air Wing CO’s, staff, and Flag Staff officers and debriefed them on initial reports of misbehavior and incidents of fisticuffs in the hallways and on the patio by the pool.
According to a Department of Defense (DoD) report, 83 women and 7 men stated that they had been victims of sexual assault and harassment during the meeting. Several participants later stated that a number of flag officers attending the meetings were aware of the sexual assaults, but did nothing to stop them.[1]
On October 29, 1991, the Department of the Navy terminated all ties to the Tailhook Association. Ties were not restored with the Navy until January 19, 1999. [2]
The issues were never quite settled, and as late as 2002, the Tailhook chairman spoke of “the alleged misconduct that occurred in 1991”.[3] For several years after Tailhook ’91 Promotion board results were delayed while a special review was conducted to ensure that any person with an adverse connection to Tailhook ’91 was not promoted.
***************************************************
CAREER KILLER. PERIOD!
This is not about anything more than Publicity during a time of the most radically PC Department of Defense…EVAH!
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20027240-503544.html
@Hard Right:
Readiness has already been in decline in the USN. You can repeatedly fail INSURV’s, ground your ship repeatedly, and otherwise be a screw up CO.
But God help you if some of your *crew* without your knowledge have improper relations you can loose your command and career.
“Equality” goes both ways…at least it should. Women should do the exact same PT as men and racial/gender quotas should be removed from advancements. Hell, desegregate the berthing too!
Wrong! We are not ruining the career of a good military man! He ruined his own career by thinking with the wrong head.
He is there to fight for the United States of America. He is paid to kill our enemies and protect the American people. He is not paid to make dirty movies and call it entertainment.
Kudos to the Navy Brass for getting rid of this nitwit!
@Random Thoughts:
If you as a mother of anyone think videos of pseudo male or female masturbation are hilarious, you are a sick puppy!
If you have any influence on your sons (who you say are also military officers) tell them the American people are paying them to fight and protect this Nation, not to make dirty movies and make sure the troops are having fun……If they want to have fun, they should get the hell out of the military and go to college where maneuvers are called” Spring Break” !
Ex Military
@drjohn:
Hey Doc…..Same comment I sent to Random Thoughts applies to you. Get smart or get out!
Louie
Get smart or get out? Jesus, the guy’s Top Gun. Give me a break.
This stuff has gone on for a very long time. No one disputes the leadership or integrity of Honors.
It’s pathetic. Whoever did this is the same weaselly elementary school tattletale who reported every stinking trespass to the teacher. I hope someone finds him or her and makes everyone’s displeasure clear.
I am offended that the Cap is getting screwed over this. When does anyone care about my umbrage?
@Louie Ex-Military: Howdy. From my personal POV, Readiness is effected by more than a few issues.
*Military Budget (Look for it to Decline under the Current Regime)
*Size of the Joint Force ( Too small for a World Power at this Time)
*Pay & Benefits ( Latest Pay Raise for this FY is an Insult to Service Members)
*Return to Carter Administration Policies by Current Regime that Discourages America’s Best from Staying in the Military
* Due the Fact that the Joint Force is too Small, too many Deploy too Often
*Political Correctness , Affirmative Action vs Merit Promotions Undermine the Force
*Removal of A Theater Commander from Command because he was treated like an Errand boy by a POTUS that has NO Respect for the Military
* Trying to do More with Less Forces
I started out as Enlisted a couple of Decades ago. I am now an O-6 waiting to retire for a Second time.
I have two College Degrees, have served at both Command and Staff levels and am a War College Grad.
I have deployed in Undeclared Wars, Peace Keeping Missions and Training Foreign Military as my Job description. Somalia, the Balkans, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. MY MOS was one that did NOT include Female Service Members and still does not. So consider that as a factor. Until I had Command at BCT level there were Zero Females in My Units. (BCT is Brigade Combat Team)
I was Commissioned At Ft. Benning, an OCS Grad from being a Trooper in the 75th RANGER RGT as a new NCO that was Chosen to attend. There was a Selection Process. I was Chosen. Not by Affirmative Action.
CAPT. Honors Served Honorably and Well but did not see the trend of Political Correctness coming like a Freight Train. He got hit. As far as Get Smart or Get Out, there goes the Readiness Jocko. Many Competent and Proficient Leaders will Get Out leaving the US with a less than Ready Force. I do not know your MOS or rank but your comments are an indicator.
In about 3 weeks my Duty will be completed and I will return to my spread in Montana and resume my Life with the New Politically Correct Military in my Rear View Mirror.
Get Out?
Go away Sonny
I agree, this is a bunch of crap, and they stated that repealing DADT wouldnt cause problems. Now it seems that ONE person can destroy not only a unit but the whole upper enchelon with non PC behavior.
@Aleric: This happened to be an Action taken 4 Years after the stated “Offense” occurred. This is PC Crap but that is the trend and Many Good Officers and Service Members may just leave to pursue opportunities elsewhere due to the actions taken here.
Ever hear the Term…”In Case of War Break Glass”. It is in wide use now amongst Combat Arms Officers & Non Coms.
Have you people lost your mind? The CO was a sick, disgusting pervert. Who exposes themselves on camera like that?
Who has women showering together like that?
FA, what happened to you guys?
Old Trooper 2, our military will be the worse for your absence.
In a completely different context, I might indeed be offended by Honors’ video. However, when it comes to judging content I believe context is crucial, and in the context of soldiers stuck on a ship for months at a time, most of them men, I understand the humor completely. It’s typical heterosexual male humor, and throughout the video, the XO is making fun of himself. The more I think about it, the more I feel sorry for Honors, whose lifetime of sacrifice and hard work is basically being judged as worthless by people who have no idea of what it takes to command troops.
Ivan, were You personally Offended? Where and When did that Happen?
Better Report it Now and get your 3 minutes of Fame!
You get off on the homosexuality innuendos? You like him exposing himself to the crew?
@Random Thoughts: Hey, Random. I served where I was Sent by National Command Authority because US Foreign Policy…FAILED…I would Serve again if I was 40 Years younger….Maybe…but I was sent early and often by Fools that put poor Foreign Policy in Place, Negotiated with Dis-Honest Brokers, reduced the Military every time it was time to buy Votes with Social Programs that never worked and Deployed me again and again with America’s Finest because they were Politicians and NOT Statesmen.
I am hanging up my boots after 30+ Years of Selfless Service and trained others to do the Same. A lack of Leadership in DC does not cjange the Fact that 3% of the American Population are in Service, Defending those that are Too Good to serve or like that guy John Kerry said “No Education so You get stuck in Iraq”. If I see him I will punch him between the running lights just because he deserves it and is NOT in my Chain of Command.
Thanks for Your comments. We that serve are a slice of American Society. Not stupid by any way but just Care More about the Country and Defend even those that We consider to be Useless, Hopeless and Terminally Stupid.
@Ivan: Nope Ivan but since Don’t Ask Don’t Tell is happening, You might get away with it. Go Sign on.
A Clown like you questions my Values?
Get over it Sonny. I do not answer to Clowns like You. Stupid Questions annoy me.
A clown? Son, you’re the clown here sticking up for the pervert.
@Ivan:
Ivan…just between us…do you like being spanked?
I sure hope so because it’s happening to you again.
@Aye
The only one getting spanked here are the defenders of a pervert. I guess that includes you, Aye.
Ivan, your fondness for repeating the word “pervert” makes one wonder.
I usually make it a point not to engage in battles of wits with the unarmed, but because it’s a slow day I’m making an exception.
@Ivan: Ivan. If You live around a Large Metro Area, put a Yellow Page Phone directory in your Britches. Your comments beg for a Spanking.
Advice…Know your Audience before You pop off at the keyboard. At FA, some folks will engage you with more logic than you possess. If getting Spanked is Your Perversion You may get what you are asking for Sonny.
@Ivan:
Let me get this straight now…the lying, racist, misogynist, bigoted, homophobic supporter of the ideas of Karl Marx…is now lecturing us based on what he finds to be perverted behavior?
Is that right?
And we’re actually supposed to give half a furry rat’s azz what you think?
That’s amusing.
No, really.
@Aye: Ok. The First Amendment Guarantees Ivan’s right to flap off at the Pie Hole. I Defend that. But…it also gives me the opportunity to respond with some civility to his display of hypocrisy, state of general ignorance and maybe get a laugh or two as an added amusement.
Shame on you guys for sticking up for this horribly sick man.
If you really cared about the military you’d root for this sick man’s dismissal.
WOW WOW WOW WOW really like the new atmosphere!
Did I say Thank you God for tax season yet?
Good think Honors was not a US Senator or Congressman. He would have simply been reelected and given a pat on the back.
@Ivan: Ivan, I have spent the Majority of my adult life in the Military. Your “outrage” has been noted here. Don’t you have some sort of meetings to attend on your personal issues? Your apparent fixation on this incident leads me to believe that you have some things to deal with.
Disciplinary action has been taken. Do you want to burn him at the stake in your town square?
Your postings here appear to be somewhat revealing. Did someone give You “bad touches”?
We don’t do therapy here. Sorry… I have no skills in that area but I’m tired of your ranting about it.
OK?
OT2 said:
Many Competent and Proficient Leaders will Get Out leaving the US with a less than Ready Force….
True, too true.
A few days ago, right after the DADT went by the wayside an Obama shill said if anyone wanted to leave the military instead of serving with openly gay people they could do so.
But when the statistics showed that ~265,000 might want to take them up on that, Gates said this: “….very few people can leave immediately.”
So, I guess that makes it all OK, right?
But that’s not my point.
OT2 pointed out how our military would lose competent and proficient leaders if they are allowed to leave over the repeal of DADT.
Long time ago, right after the Iraq invasion, after Afghanistan was going for a while, a military strategist made the point that our killing off al Qaeda and Taliban leaders was one of our big advantages over them.
Our command/control constantly learned from one another, from one battle to the next, from one tour to the next.
But the enemy’s command/control were being killed off in great numbers and being replaced by ill-trained younger men.
Obama seems intent on leveling this playing field.
What is his problem?
Does he think the winner and the loser both get little trophies and go happily home?
@Ivan:
Have you even bothered to watch the videos?
I’d venture to say that you haven’t. That has led you to speak out in ignorance.
Again.
True Career Military leaders know that the Occupancy of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is a Temporary one.
I have Served under a few Administrations and saw many changes in Policies, Many Sec of Def types, many deployments because Administrations practiced poor Foreign Policy work. I have seen Officers leave to make more money in the Private Sector, incompetent Officers relieved, State Department Clowns interfere in things that they did neither understand or cared to because an Agenda was being pushed for Political reasons.
I have seen the Intelligence capabilities decline due to Budget cuts or Priorities of Regimes. Officers come and go. Enlisted serve terms and leave to pursue opportunities, go to College or acquire a Trade.
DADT may encourage some to leave. Others will stay on because of Professionalism. Gates and Rumsfeld are/were Temporary Appointees that I never saw eye to eye with on Military Affairs but those who stay in Service are dedicated to one thing, the Defense of the Greatest Nation on Earth as a DUTY.
My Army will survive this and be around after Obama & Company are replaced with Others. Only 3% of Americans by population currently serve. Catering to a Minority is foolish and always disenchants a few but those Serving, deploying repeatedly and doing the Heavy Lifting do so for a reason. Love of Country. Neither Gates or Obama will change that. It is in Our Blood. I can Retire and know that the Defense of the Nation will continue. Regardless of Foolish Policies. It always Has.
The Army weeds it’s garden. All Services do that. Commanders are Relieved for a Variety of reasons. Not always for Misconduct or Conduct Unbecoming. In most situations it is warranted for the Good of the Unit. I don’t know this guy but “loss of confidence” prior to Deployment is rare.
***********************************************************************
Army Relieves 172nd Infantry Brigade Commander
http://www.military.com/news/article/army-relieves-172nd-infantry-brigade-commander.html?ESRC=army-a.nl
January 05, 2011
Stars and Stripes|by Seth Robson
GRAFENWÖHR, Germany — The Army has relieved the commander of the 172nd Infantry Brigade, shortly before the unit intensifies its training for an Afghanistan deployment this summer.
Acting V Corps commander Brig. Gen. Allen W. Batschelet said Tuesday that Col. Frank Zachar was relieved of command on Monday, “… due to loss of confidence in his ability to command.”
Batschelet said there was no specific incident that led the Army to relieve Zachar.
“There weren’t any illegal, immoral or unethical activities,” he said. “His [Zachar’s] leadership style wasn’t really effective and over time the command here lost confidence in his ability to command.”
Attempts to reach Zachar on Tuesday night were unsuccessful.
The 172nd, which has roughly 3,500 personnel, is based in Grafenwöhr and Schweinfurt, Germany.
Zachar, who took command of the 172nd in May, served in Operation Desert Shield/Desert Storm, and in Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan. Before joining the 172nd, he attended the Army War College, according to the brigade’s website.
“He’s going to be reassigned commensurate with his abilities and rank,” Batschelet said of Zachar’s future.
The 172nd’s top enlisted Soldier, Command Sgt. Maj. Robert French, will also be reassigned as a result of the decision to relieve Zachar, Batschelet said. The 172nd’s website lists Command Sgt. Maj. Patrick K. Akuna as the unit’s interim command sergeant major.
The 172nd is also without a deputy commander since the last officer to hold that position, Lt. Col. Jamie Gough, recently moved to another assignment. 1st Battalion, 77th Field Artillery Regiment, commander Lt. Col. Christopher Cardoni has been appointed interim brigade commander until a new leader is appointed, Batschelet said.
“The Army will identify and provide a new brigade commander as expeditiously as it can,” he said.
The loss of the brigade’s commander will not adversely affect the unit’s preparation for the Afghan mission. The 172nd has a training plan that is similar to those followed by other brigades that have deployed, he said.
“I have full confidence in the Soldiers and leaders who are inside that formation,” Batschelet said. “The unit will be prepared for its impending deployment.”
**********************************************************************
Now remember, the 172nd BCT (ABN) made the *only* Official Combat Jump into Iraq during Operation Iraqi Freedom and is both an Elite and Spearhead “Forced Entry” Unit.
OT, Col. Zachar’s reassignment sounds like a military judgement rather than a political decision: Honors’ references to gays was going to cause problems in the new Navy; especially when he had to reprimand or curt martial a gay sailor or officer. The calls of discrimination would be ongoing and a major embarrassment for the Navy and Fearless Reader and the proof of discrimination would be shown at any hearing.
It is a thin line when an officer, especially the commander of a carrier brings himself down on the level with enlisted men. The familiarization can and often backfires on the officer. It is hard to maintain discipline when certain boundaries are crossed. May G-d watch over that carrier and its crew with a less seasoned officer in charge.
Was Honors an excellent leader? He was probably one of the best, but in an effort to boost morale he made a mistake, at least in our evolving political climate being imposed upon the military. He is a profound loss to the Navy and this country, all in the name of political correctness and advancing the Progressive Socialist agenda.
Forgive me for talking about the relationship of officers and enlisted to you, but I am just making cyber conversation. This has been an unfortunate chain of events, that started with good intentions and met with the Socialist night stick of political correctness. Now, I must go to work.
@Skookum: You are absolutely correct on this. Prior to a Unit Deployment there must be Full Confidence in Leadership and there are changes made.
CAPT. Honors did cross the line and on both Leadership and Political Correctness issues was Relieved.
You must earn respect on a daily basis in Command. Troops, Airmen, Sailors or Marines will not follow a Commander that does not have their Respect. An Aircraft Carrier is an Arsenal at Sea and a floating City as well. He was both the Commander of the Arsenal and the Defacto Mayor of that City in that regard. For SEC NAV to take 4 years to act is quite simply absurd though. That part just astounds me. It is the aspect of the timing of the Action that gives me pause for thought.
He could have been Subject to UCMJ action but was relieved instead. The sense of Timing is the curious part here for me. But as the UCMJ is going to be revised, Re: DADT, there may be some confusion at the Pentagon on a lot of issues.
I’m just very pleased to be Retiring for Good and leave with no regrets. Those who are staying on have some interesting years ahead to put it mildly…as the UCMJ gets sorted out…