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Neo
14 years ago
War on Terror Struggle Against Human Caused Disasters
Mr. Irons
14 years ago
I am highly disgusted how Enemies of the Union are being treated as if they’re old friends of the political leaders of our Nation and how they’re just, “victims” of the Cold War or Bush’s Doctorine. These people swore to kill, maim, and drive fear into our Culture and to cripple our Political existance as they expand and dominate the Global theater of Politics under the guise of a Holy War and yet our Leaders sit on their thumbs and spin the appeasement policies towards these Enemies. A part of the Nov 2010 election is to put into place Senators and Congressmen who not only know of the offical Fatawa issued against the United States but to officaly declare a public Declaration of War against this Fatawa and deny all detained Jihadists following this Fatawa from any American Liberties and Legal Rights.
yippie21
14 years ago
Right on point… This administration is beyond contempt. It is truly only a matter of time before we either have a catastrophic failure and major loss of life attack AND/OR an uprising within the country as more and more people feel powerless to control the central government through democratic processes. We are witnessing Failure and major stress on the USA. May God be with us all.
BarbaraS
14 years ago
“But there’s another dimension to this as well. Looking back on the first year of the Obama Administration it’s striking how often Obama puts political considerations ahead of national security.”
It is all he knows. This is the Chicago way. He doesn’t know how to do national and foreign policies any other way. Sad. Mainly for us.
“The Obama Administration has taken one political decision after another trumping national security concerns. You’d almost think they didn’t believe there was a war on.”
Obama and the dems don’t believe there is a war on. They think there are a few disgruntled muslims who are causing all the ruckus. They believe all this is the result of the republicans’ fear mongering. This is why I became terribly afraid when Obama and the dems won congress. They have never been serious about the GWOT. I knew this would happen. They want to turn back the clock to 9/10/01 and it cannot be done.
Hard Right
14 years ago
This is exactly what the clinton administartion did which helped cause 9/11.
They always had a political excuse NOT to act and protect America.
They made an excuse why they didn’t accept osama on a silver platter when offerd.
They had an excuse as to why they refused to kill him when they had the chance.
Now we see the same thing all over again.
B-Rob
14 years ago
You can’t honestly talk about Obama “politicizing” the war on terror after the GOP and several candidates tried to do fundraising on the back of the Christmas Day attempt! And before you talk about anyone politicizing this, you better come up with an explanation as to why GOPers are slamming Obama for trying the crotch bomber in federal court, but thought it was A-OK for the Bush administration to try the American Taliban, the shoe bomber, Zac Moussoui (sic?), Iyman Ferris, and the Lackawanna kids in federal court. Because other than the party of the decision maker, there is no friggin’ difference between the crotch bomber and those other mooks.
And another thing. You wrote “Our ability to get information which might prevent other plots was severely compromised by treating him as a criminal.”
This is simple nonsense. Everyday in the US, people facing hundreds of months in prison for drug dealing flip on drug kingpins. And they don’t have to be tortured to do it either. They do it for a shorter sentence. Zac Moussoui sang like a bird and this guy has ‘fessed up, too.
The only thing that you can’t get away with in a federal criminal process that you can get away with in Gitmo is torturing people . . . oh, sorry, I’ll use the term that the Germans used — “enhanced interrogation.”
If you guys want to torture people, I wish you had the intellectual honesty to admit that that is your goal. Not usable information; because people who are tortured will say anything to get it to stop. Like Jesse Ventura said, let him waterboard Dick Cheney for a half hour and he’ll have Cheney confessing to the Tate/Lobianca murders.
In fact, innocent people confess all the time, under duress (without lawyers present), to things they did not do. Google the Central Park jogger case and the Buddhist temple murders in New Mexico. So why you cons think that people will tell the truth when tortured at a “black site”, when they will lie under lesser duress in a city police office, shows a bizarre state of logic that I can’t fathom. And if you bothered to look at any of the actual Gitmo cases that have gone to trial, you would see how torture induced people to make false accusations against strangers and friends alike. That is why it is inherently untrustworthy. Indeed, if Mississippi courts outlawed “the water cure” when applied to a Black man in the 1920s, how in the hell do you cons conclude it is A-OK to do it in 2010?
Finally, Mike’s America and Thomas Sowell, in their wisdom, continue to proclaim that “terrorists” have no Constitutional rights. This just goes to show that neither Sowell nor Mike have the slightest clue as to what the Constitution does and does not provide. It as a brake on government abuse. You cons are inviting and championing government abuse, in the name of security. So maybe the Obama administration should start waterboarding hand-selected GOPer “enemy combatants” . . . like Karl Rove and Dick Cheney . . . maybe then you will see the light.
Mr. Irons
14 years ago
Water Boarding is hardly a form of torture. Have you ever had to do volunteer work to assist rehabitation groups assist people whom were victim to true torture? Torture such as having coat hanger wire shoved into the victim’s bowels, then having the wire connected to a car battery? Torture such as cutting off the person’s feet and digits on the hands, crippling the person permantely? Torture such as slicing into a person’s body and putting lime or acid in the wounds or exposed vital organs? These are the form of torture United States troops have been placed though by Imperial Japanese, Korean, Chinese (Korean war), Vietcong, Iraqi Baathist (Gulf War 1), and Al Queada cells who have taken prisoners of war.
With Waterboarding, the person keeps all their digits, their bowels, their eyes, legs, and mind. A person doesn’t recover from the malice of being victim of having his or her flesh ripped apart at the whims of a sadist. The worst a person suffers from Waterboarding is dizziness, confusion, and lapses in time but will pyschologicaly recover as there is no true physical trauma inflicted to the body. The, “Water Cure” was used by Democrats after their defeat in the Civil War in the South to help scare the Black community back to a form of enslavement. And the, “Water Cure” is not even remotely the same to Waterboarding. People have died by Water Curing. In no way and form are modern Conseratives within the Republican/Independent/Democrat groups the same, “conseratives” of the late 1860’s to the 1950’s whose “status quo” was the enslavement of others. Failure to understand the difference shows your ignorance in what group truly commited such horrid deeds while blaming parties that had fought against it.
While you try to write yourself compassionate, let me point out that the Russian forces of the Soviet Union historicaly were known to physicaly beat information out of targets of interest in war and then execute the subject on the spot and move on. The current Federal Government of Russia behaves to this standard still with external and internal threats and do not permenatly detain terrorist subjects but kills the subjects as soon as all the subject is no longer relevant for intellegence gathering. You DO NOT want to deal with Spetznaz “interrogators”. I have had the joy of simply camping with one before on friendly terms (due to him being one of my Masters and an Instructor). The American Military forces detain such targets and transport them to military prisons, instead of a bullet to the brain once the interrogation is done.
The bad apples within the Miitary that abused the prisoners of Gitmo and Iraq have been court marshaled and made an example of with their Peers. Mistreatment of prisoners within the Military is viewed very seriously, even before Bush’s terms of service. And most forms of, “Abuse” currently in reguards to prisoners are self inflicted situations as per their operating credo of the offical Fatawa issued by Osama Bin Laden and reinforced by the recent training manuals for unlawful combatants.
Patvann
14 years ago
Water-boarding is a horrible torture and should NEVER be done to ANYONE under ANY conditions….except to former vice presidents…M-kay
The U.S. Constitution is valid for everyone on the planet…M-kay.
@B-Rob: The more you sputter the more I am convinced that I have hit the mark here.
Perhaps you have read the polls which show that the overwhelming majority of Americans, including many Democrats think that Obama is WRONG to treat the underwear bomber the same a criminal defendent with constitutional rights.
Many Americans feel the same way about putting KSM on trial in New York and closing Gitmo.
And the best you can do is complain about some GOP fundraising letters?
Do let me know which of those letters has a direct impact on your personal safety and the national security of the United States in the same way Obama’s politicized decisions have.
Mr. Irons
14 years ago
And as of the matter of Consitutional Rights, Enemies internal and External are exempt from any form of Rights written in the Consitution, traitors and enemies sworn to see the destruction of the United States of America are not protected by this sacred Paper due to their intentions to destroy the very thing. As I have pointed out before, the Soviet Union took very few prisoners when it came to external threats but were quick to imprison internal ones to strike fear in its citizens to squelch any form of counter-revolt to the Communist System. The current White House Czars/Staff and Majority of House of Congress wish to see opponents praticaly jailed or muzzled for placing their opinions out in the public, a page taken out of the Soviet Union rule book. Hell, even Putin has critized Obama on reguards to many things especialy on taxation policies that mirror what the Soviet Union did on exportion and importion.
We have a former KGB spy warning our Leaders NOT to step down the path of Communism and if we do so, he is warning Obama just like he warned Bush that he and his Nation will be more than willing to enter a new Cold War where ironicly THEY are the Captialist nation.
War on TerrorStruggle Against Human Caused DisastersI am highly disgusted how Enemies of the Union are being treated as if they’re old friends of the political leaders of our Nation and how they’re just, “victims” of the Cold War or Bush’s Doctorine. These people swore to kill, maim, and drive fear into our Culture and to cripple our Political existance as they expand and dominate the Global theater of Politics under the guise of a Holy War and yet our Leaders sit on their thumbs and spin the appeasement policies towards these Enemies. A part of the Nov 2010 election is to put into place Senators and Congressmen who not only know of the offical Fatawa issued against the United States but to officaly declare a public Declaration of War against this Fatawa and deny all detained Jihadists following this Fatawa from any American Liberties and Legal Rights.
Right on point… This administration is beyond contempt. It is truly only a matter of time before we either have a catastrophic failure and major loss of life attack AND/OR an uprising within the country as more and more people feel powerless to control the central government through democratic processes. We are witnessing Failure and major stress on the USA. May God be with us all.
“But there’s another dimension to this as well. Looking back on the first year of the Obama Administration it’s striking how often Obama puts political considerations ahead of national security.”
It is all he knows. This is the Chicago way. He doesn’t know how to do national and foreign policies any other way. Sad. Mainly for us.
“The Obama Administration has taken one political decision after another trumping national security concerns. You’d almost think they didn’t believe there was a war on.”
Obama and the dems don’t believe there is a war on. They think there are a few disgruntled muslims who are causing all the ruckus. They believe all this is the result of the republicans’ fear mongering. This is why I became terribly afraid when Obama and the dems won congress. They have never been serious about the GWOT. I knew this would happen. They want to turn back the clock to 9/10/01 and it cannot be done.
This is exactly what the clinton administartion did which helped cause 9/11.
They always had a political excuse NOT to act and protect America.
They made an excuse why they didn’t accept osama on a silver platter when offerd.
They had an excuse as to why they refused to kill him when they had the chance.
Now we see the same thing all over again.
You can’t honestly talk about Obama “politicizing” the war on terror after the GOP and several candidates tried to do fundraising on the back of the Christmas Day attempt! And before you talk about anyone politicizing this, you better come up with an explanation as to why GOPers are slamming Obama for trying the crotch bomber in federal court, but thought it was A-OK for the Bush administration to try the American Taliban, the shoe bomber, Zac Moussoui (sic?), Iyman Ferris, and the Lackawanna kids in federal court. Because other than the party of the decision maker, there is no friggin’ difference between the crotch bomber and those other mooks.
And another thing. You wrote “Our ability to get information which might prevent other plots was severely compromised by treating him as a criminal.”
This is simple nonsense. Everyday in the US, people facing hundreds of months in prison for drug dealing flip on drug kingpins. And they don’t have to be tortured to do it either. They do it for a shorter sentence. Zac Moussoui sang like a bird and this guy has ‘fessed up, too.
The only thing that you can’t get away with in a federal criminal process that you can get away with in Gitmo is torturing people . . . oh, sorry, I’ll use the term that the Germans used — “enhanced interrogation.”
If you guys want to torture people, I wish you had the intellectual honesty to admit that that is your goal. Not usable information; because people who are tortured will say anything to get it to stop. Like Jesse Ventura said, let him waterboard Dick Cheney for a half hour and he’ll have Cheney confessing to the Tate/Lobianca murders.
In fact, innocent people confess all the time, under duress (without lawyers present), to things they did not do. Google the Central Park jogger case and the Buddhist temple murders in New Mexico. So why you cons think that people will tell the truth when tortured at a “black site”, when they will lie under lesser duress in a city police office, shows a bizarre state of logic that I can’t fathom. And if you bothered to look at any of the actual Gitmo cases that have gone to trial, you would see how torture induced people to make false accusations against strangers and friends alike. That is why it is inherently untrustworthy. Indeed, if Mississippi courts outlawed “the water cure” when applied to a Black man in the 1920s, how in the hell do you cons conclude it is A-OK to do it in 2010?
Finally, Mike’s America and Thomas Sowell, in their wisdom, continue to proclaim that “terrorists” have no Constitutional rights. This just goes to show that neither Sowell nor Mike have the slightest clue as to what the Constitution does and does not provide. It as a brake on government abuse. You cons are inviting and championing government abuse, in the name of security. So maybe the Obama administration should start waterboarding hand-selected GOPer “enemy combatants” . . . like Karl Rove and Dick Cheney . . . maybe then you will see the light.
Water Boarding is hardly a form of torture. Have you ever had to do volunteer work to assist rehabitation groups assist people whom were victim to true torture? Torture such as having coat hanger wire shoved into the victim’s bowels, then having the wire connected to a car battery? Torture such as cutting off the person’s feet and digits on the hands, crippling the person permantely? Torture such as slicing into a person’s body and putting lime or acid in the wounds or exposed vital organs? These are the form of torture United States troops have been placed though by Imperial Japanese, Korean, Chinese (Korean war), Vietcong, Iraqi Baathist (Gulf War 1), and Al Queada cells who have taken prisoners of war.
With Waterboarding, the person keeps all their digits, their bowels, their eyes, legs, and mind. A person doesn’t recover from the malice of being victim of having his or her flesh ripped apart at the whims of a sadist. The worst a person suffers from Waterboarding is dizziness, confusion, and lapses in time but will pyschologicaly recover as there is no true physical trauma inflicted to the body. The, “Water Cure” was used by Democrats after their defeat in the Civil War in the South to help scare the Black community back to a form of enslavement. And the, “Water Cure” is not even remotely the same to Waterboarding. People have died by Water Curing. In no way and form are modern Conseratives within the Republican/Independent/Democrat groups the same, “conseratives” of the late 1860’s to the 1950’s whose “status quo” was the enslavement of others. Failure to understand the difference shows your ignorance in what group truly commited such horrid deeds while blaming parties that had fought against it.
While you try to write yourself compassionate, let me point out that the Russian forces of the Soviet Union historicaly were known to physicaly beat information out of targets of interest in war and then execute the subject on the spot and move on. The current Federal Government of Russia behaves to this standard still with external and internal threats and do not permenatly detain terrorist subjects but kills the subjects as soon as all the subject is no longer relevant for intellegence gathering. You DO NOT want to deal with Spetznaz “interrogators”. I have had the joy of simply camping with one before on friendly terms (due to him being one of my Masters and an Instructor). The American Military forces detain such targets and transport them to military prisons, instead of a bullet to the brain once the interrogation is done.
The bad apples within the Miitary that abused the prisoners of Gitmo and Iraq have been court marshaled and made an example of with their Peers. Mistreatment of prisoners within the Military is viewed very seriously, even before Bush’s terms of service. And most forms of, “Abuse” currently in reguards to prisoners are self inflicted situations as per their operating credo of the offical Fatawa issued by Osama Bin Laden and reinforced by the recent training manuals for unlawful combatants.
Water-boarding is a horrible torture and should NEVER be done to ANYONE under ANY conditions….except to former vice presidents…M-kay
The U.S. Constitution is valid for everyone on the planet…M-kay.
Pffft.
Mike, I think it’s time to bring out “the video”.
@B-Rob: The more you sputter the more I am convinced that I have hit the mark here.
Perhaps you have read the polls which show that the overwhelming majority of Americans, including many Democrats think that Obama is WRONG to treat the underwear bomber the same a criminal defendent with constitutional rights.
Many Americans feel the same way about putting KSM on trial in New York and closing Gitmo.
And the best you can do is complain about some GOP fundraising letters?
Do let me know which of those letters has a direct impact on your personal safety and the national security of the United States in the same way Obama’s politicized decisions have.
And as of the matter of Consitutional Rights, Enemies internal and External are exempt from any form of Rights written in the Consitution, traitors and enemies sworn to see the destruction of the United States of America are not protected by this sacred Paper due to their intentions to destroy the very thing. As I have pointed out before, the Soviet Union took very few prisoners when it came to external threats but were quick to imprison internal ones to strike fear in its citizens to squelch any form of counter-revolt to the Communist System. The current White House Czars/Staff and Majority of House of Congress wish to see opponents praticaly jailed or muzzled for placing their opinions out in the public, a page taken out of the Soviet Union rule book. Hell, even Putin has critized Obama on reguards to many things especialy on taxation policies that mirror what the Soviet Union did on exportion and importion.
http://www.theodoresworld.net/archives/2009/06/putin_slams_obama_tax_proposal.html
We have a former KGB spy warning our Leaders NOT to step down the path of Communism and if we do so, he is warning Obama just like he warned Bush that he and his Nation will be more than willing to enter a new Cold War where ironicly THEY are the Captialist nation.