This according to 6:15 Pac Time in an update.
Too bad…..
Also press conference says female who shot Maj. Hasan went thru surgery and in stable condition. Add the official reports to comments for us all, if you please…
Vietnam era Navy wife, indy/conservative, and an official California escapee now residing as a red speck in the sea of Oregon blue.
Pull the plug on this guy.
One of his colleagues knew how hateful he was, and yet did nothing?
I saw where he was being investigated by the feds over some pro jihadist posts six months ago, but had yet to confirm he made the posts? WTH!!!!?? They couldn’t get an answer in less time than that?
I’m glad he was brought down by a female First Responder and, that he will face military justice and not a PC civilian court. Of course, civilian courts in TX do carry out the death penalty. He will get the death penalty, no doubt about it.
I don’t understand why a Muslim can serve in any capacity in the US Military. Their religion would not allow them to kill a “brother” so why should we pay them to go to school, etc. And, their religion comes before any country so why did he enter the military?
Here’s hoping that the officer gets the medal of freedom!
Islamist, Mass murderer. Somewhere in the area is a mosque (and a bunch of assistants to murder) that should be raided (or bombed) before daylight. I’d prefer a C-5/7 and a MOAB.
He got 4 years of medical school and 2 years residency without paying a dime out of his pocket all the while drawing his pay. As one commentator on Fox reported, he paid back the military by killing 12+ people.
He never was deployed but had lawyers trying to get him out of being sent Over There. Probably trying to get out of a dishonorable discharge and/or having to repay for his education. He was “disturbed” hearing the reports of the men coming back from combat…Boo Friggin’ Hoo. He didn’t want to aid and abet killing Muslims…OMB, what a shock.
No Muslims in the US Military. Period.
Can we waterboard him now?
I cruised on over to the website Islamic Awakening — some of the muslimes are celebrating the ‘brave mujahid’…..
How many mooslums are in the Israeli military? — anyone have an idea? – hummm? — say for example — how many with officer’s ranks — like as HIGH as major? —
Kozane: You should have seen the celebration that the Muslims had in Athens Greece on 9/11. Some Jewlers in downttown Ermou were giving out champagne. Disgusting! They have no shame. I hope we are not going to have copy cats in the days to follow. Homeland security better keep America safe from attacks like this one.
Budvar-akbar: the ISRAELI Army has no enemy within! Others in the region are used to having traitors among themselves, it is the modum operandum of cowards and snakes who have no respect for life.
I’m assuming this crime will be processed in military rather than civilian courts?
@AnnMonterey:
@budvarakbar:
Both of you – knock off the anti-Muslim crap. Do either of you serve in the military? No? Then you’ve probably never served alongside Muslims. Well I have and they don’t deserve your slurs because they are busting their butts to protect America.
This guy at FT Hood was a nut. For fuck’s sake, stop confusing fanatics and lunatics with faith.
Back to you budvarakbar – how many Christian majors are there in the IDF?
@kozanne:
Don’t make that assumption. Besides, if you really want the death penalty, Texas is about as good as it gets for the prosecution and actual follow-through on the sentence.
That’s right, tfhr. I forgot about that.
“Both of you – knock off the anti-Muslim crap. Do either of you serve in the military? No? Then you’ve probably never served alongside Muslims. Well I have and they don’t deserve your slurs because they are busting their butts to protect America.
This guy at FT Hood was a nut. For fuck’s sake, stop confusing fanatics and lunatics with faith.”
How many more “nuts” do we have to deal with before it becomes ok to publicly speak about the fact that the religion is the problem?
We are talking about a religion founded by a pedophile and centered around the premise of either enslaving or killing the non-believer. In my eyes, this guy was a true follower of the religion.
The ones you served with were probably great guys and most likely would be an honor to serve with, but they aren’t following the full tenants of their religion. Because they dont, they are capable of being compatible with other freedom loving peoples of different faiths.
I didn’t know of any Muslims in the military, but that was over forty ears ago. I understand that there are many that are fighting for our country and I am bewildered like many of you.
After 9/11, I was visiting family on 11/11/01 in Calgary and I noticed a large group of Muslims gathered on a vacant lot across the road. While wondering whether I should ask for a weapon, a relative noticed my nervousness and told me to relax. They alerted the public by the newspaper that they planned to gather on vacant lots to sing O Canada on Armistice Day, all over town, in appreciation of their new home in Canada. On this bitter cold day, I was a little choked up as these people did a fair job of singing a difficult song.
Up to that point, I believed and thought the worst of the Muslim. Yet they are now serving our country with distinction.
A couple of thoughts on this matter, that apply to me as well.
He that knows little, often repeats it. proverb
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong. Thomas Jefferson
per thfr: fanatic + lunitic = moslem major in US Army —- get off your PC horse —
thfr = tfhr — whatever
I’m glad this monster did not die from his wounds. I say patch him up and execute him. But not before we make him talk. I’d like to hear more about what he thought about Obama.
tfhr, while I may agree that a blanket assumption that all Muslim as fanatics is completely in error, I might also ask this of you. Can we stop shaking down nuns now to find jihadists who live in our midst? And most especially those with tell tale signs that are military members, and who may not have been investigated because it would be PC incorrect?
I think Curt mentioned the fact that Hasan had been under the eye of the Feds for about 6 months because of some of his blog postings.
And that is the thing, if Muslims don’t want to be generalized as fanatics or terrorists, then they must, to a person, speak out loudly and freely against this kind of act, as well as encourage all in the Ummah to do the same.
If Muslims want to be thought of as ‘good Muslims’, then they must speak up for what is good and against what is evil.
Already a Muslim leader in TX is talking about the fear of retaliation and that this act has nothing to do with Islam, but where is the part where he speaks for good and against evil?
I guess the next few days of spin/repeat by various news outlets and other groups will be interesting.
Obviously, Mike, the “hope and change” message didn’t get thru to Maj Hasan. Perhaps he thought Iraq would instantly be emptied of US presence, and that the Eunuch-in-chief would immediately withdraw from Afghanistan.
The foreign policy that Gibbs touts as being on the mend with the international world and our enemy is a fantasy that Hasan did not share… right along with his fellow Muslims on the Af/Pak and Iraq battlefields. So it’s obvious he saw Obama in no different light than he viewed Dubya.
I need to hear nothing from his lips. Only wish he was cut down before taking far more valuable lives before his own, inevitable demise.
Than again… in the back of my conspiratorial mind… I have to wonder if this man will be kept alive, or magically die in the hospital before talking. The first thing out of the FBI mouthpieces today was the immediate assurance this was *not* a terrorist attack. Such a quick denial… why? Who would benefit from a “terrorist attack” being labeled anything but a “terrorist attack”? ummmm…. lemme think…. don’t help…..
I don’t think tfhr was coming from a pc angle (as budvarakbar #17 suggests).
The majority of Muslims serving in our Armed Forces are not in danger of being radicalized and are important in this fight against the Islamist threat. Of course, “a blanket assumption that all Muslim as fanatics” can certainly drive a feeling of alienation and persecution that is real rather than imagined. We should be just as vigilant not to fall prey to religious bigotry just as we should be vigilant not to be afraid of national profiling, ethnic profiling, and religious profiling as part of identifying potential dangers.
There is indeed a problem that is Islam-related and Muslims have to come to grips with that simple fact.
@budvarakbar:
@chris:
There isn’t a PC bone in my body, budvarakbar, just a couple of decades of serving in the Army that taught me that people come from all over the world to live in America for all the promise it holds. The Army exists to protect those people and our Constitution. There is something in the Constitution about freedom of religion, no?
I know a Muslim USAF major and he is not a fanatic or a lunatic. His family came from India to pursue a better life and to practice their religion without fear of persecution. The shootings at FT Hood are the responsibility of one man, it would seem, not his religion. The act of one lunatic on FT Hood does not justify condemnation of an entire religion. You don’t have to drive far, in Texas terms, to get to Waco from FT Hood but does any rational person believe that David Koresh’s brand of Christianity was a true representation of the faith?
In 1996 a soldier shot 19 other soldiers at a PT formation on FT Bragg. He was not a Muslim.
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/149260/
In 2005 a soldier at FT Campbell fired on fellow soldiers and is now in prison. He wishes he was in Guantanamo but he’s not Muslim.
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/article-1G1-144755630/debary-soldier-gets-25.html
In 1993 a DA Civilian shot himself and four co-workers on FT Knox. He was not a Muslim. I mention that shooting also because I had left the post only a few days prior and had passed through that office while clearing.
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-10-19/news/mn-47457_1_knox-clerk
That was one of those events that taught me a long time ago that there is no safe place when someone is both armed and insane. If blaming this on a religion makes you feel safer I think you’ll be disappointed. Each of the lunatics I listed above had their particular brand of motivation that led them to pull the trigger. Does knowing that they were not Muslims make it different to you? Why?
I’m just sick over the fact there were multiple chances to prevent this and nothing was done. In the case of his former “co-worker” he could have reported him, yet he didn’t. Why? Was it PC that stopped him?
Here’s my take on it:
Hasan did not want to be deployed. He had retained an attorney, but I think as the deployment date drew closer, the handwriting was on the wall and he was going to be deployed, like it or not.
No way would he kill a fellow Muslim. Jihad was a convenient out for him. Hubby said ‘why would he kill his own’, meaning fellow soldiers? I had to tell him that ‘his own’ were the muslims, not the soldiers serving along side him.
@MataHarley:
I deplore the kid glove treatment we give to various groups that claim the lofty mantle of “victimhood” when they are scrutinized for connections with terrorist organizations or their supporters.
Your nun comment reminded me of my mom – that’s if you know any nun’s that cuss and drink like sailors – and her recent TSA experience. My folks had been in Italy when my mom contracted pneumonia and landed in an Italian hospital for a few weeks. When she returned to the US, she was in a wheel chair and they still searched her before she could get on her connecting flight out of Dulles. She’s scary, I’ll be the first to admit it, but not because she’s in her seventies. Profiling isn’t a bad thing when you have limited resources to throw at a huge problem. Shaking down penguins or Japanese grandmothers isn’t going to deter the rabid Muslim shoe-bomber.
The Muslims that call America home could do themselves and the country a great service speaking out in condemnation radical fundamentalists that espouse violence. As Wordsmith already pointed out, there are Muslims serving in the military that bring special skills to the fight and without them our fight against al Qaeda and others would be that much more difficult. I’m not about to disparage the Muslims I’ve served alongside because of the senseless murders committed at FT Hood.
Sounds like your Mom and I would get along like gangbusters, tfhr. LOL I think what I find so danged frustrating about this is that, if the co-worker’s remarks about Hasan are true, and his Walter Reed records are correct, this is a man who should have long since been booted out of the military. And most certainly should not have been transferred to counsel our soldiers on the battlefield. Thus my remarks about this tiptoeing about profiling. He was a Muslim who, if the accounts are correct, sided with the enemy against the very military of which he was a member.
Naw… forget booted out. He should have been investigated for treason long before he was shipped to Fort Hood. And while the FBI wants to concentrate on just who this guy was, I would like to find the Pentagon bozos who ignored the obvious, and placed our soldiers in harms way just to not offend a Muslim officer. And I’d like to see that Pentagon member booted out… right after they hang Hasan from Obama’s nearest olive branch.
“The act of one lunatic on FT Hood does not justify condemnation of an entire religion.”
You are correct, but how about the long pattern of people killing specifically in the name of Islam without hardly any backlash from the so called “moderates”?
Since 9/11 there have been more than 14,000 Islamic terrorist attacks world wide, is that not enough for you to say it is a problem? In the last month, at least 909 people have died, in the last week, over 348 is that enough?
Do we need to have a nuke set of in Memphis in the name of Islam for you to think it is a problem?
No other members of any religion in the world actively participates in violence and murder as a way to further their religion, yet you dismiss them as “nuts”… Course that is what everyone did before 9/11 as well…
I dont have to condemn the religion, reading its texts will do that for you, why dont you try it. here is a good place to start (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm)
I find it interesting that you bring up Waco, a event that never had to happen. Koresh rode his bicycle by the federal officers multiple times without being arrested, instead they chose to use tanks to storm the complex and in my eyes directly caused the escalation of the situation that led to the deaths inside. His faith had nothing to do with the fact that he was wanted on multiple warrants and chose to resist with violence instead of being arrested though.
@chris:
Do we know that this guy carried out the act in the name of Allah? I’ve not heard that yet but to answer your question about how many acts are enough for me, I’ve always said that a state of war has existed since 1979 when Iranians stormed our embassy.
I was on my way to the Pentagon on 9-11. I’ve done a tour in Iraq and I’ve spent a fair amount of my time outside of the country working anti-terrorism and force protection issues for PACOM. I think I know the dangers. What’s more, I saw a lot of intel reports that would make your skin crawl if you had any idea how big this problem has become over the years.
I agree that Waco was avoidable but that doesn’t change my mind about Koresh. In fact, knowing that he was armed and a lunatic makes your point about grabbing him away from the compound just that much more appropriate.
I’m not going to sit here and be lectured about how evil one religion is compared to another. I’ll tell you that I think you’re wrong and such a pronouncement on your part leaves you with no practical approach to combat the threat from terrorist organizations and their sponsors. The people that act against America, it’s allies, and it’s interests are my focus. Unless your prescription is to destroy an entire religion, I suggest you stick to killing the radicals that take up arms against us and working to reduce their means to sustain the fight. Bombing mosques simply because they are mosques doesn’t help our cause.
By the way, why didn’t you answer my question? Each of the lunatics I listed above had their particular brand of motivation that led them to pull the trigger. Does knowing that they were not Muslims make it different to you? Why?
@chris:
Chris,
There has been backlash from “so-called” “moderates” and I’d say even “non-moderates”.
Re posts:
Is the Islamic world rejecting al-Qaeda theology, thanks to the War in Iraq?
Mata has a worthwhile related post as well, but I don’t have the link at the ready.
Also, consider how those Muslims who aren’t “devout” in the “radical” fundamentalist Islamist sense, but embrace modernity and reform (of the non-wahhabi variety) find their voices suppressed by the likes of PBS, because they don’t fit the mold of “true Muslims” that CAIR supposedly represents:
I agree that decent Muslims above all others should be at the forefront of this fight, if they want to be the ones to define their faith, rather than leaving it in the hands of the 7th century backward faithfuls and 20th century Qutbist re-inventors. The fact that so many Muslims have been slaughtered by their extremist brethren should say something about whether or not the Muslim majority approve of the violence of the radical fanatics.
Certainly the Muslim apologists and sympathizers are a problem. The anti-Americanism and perception propaganda of American foreign policy (not exclusive to Muslims) is a problem (when wed to Islamist fundamentalism, giving potential for radicalization).
Spouting anti-Islam rhetoric and lumping all practitioners of Islam into the same category doesn’t help build confidence amongst those who would be Muslim allies. It makes them feel persecuted. Calling all Muslims ragheads and being purposefully demeaning to their faith only gives CAIR (the Rainbow Push Coalition of Islam- they don’t speak for all Muslims) political ammo.
I think narrowing the focus to Islamic terrorists and marginalizing them from mainstream Muslims makes more sense. Widening the war and alienating Muslim allies who don’t want to be at war with us, doesn’t make sense to me.
Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan are in this fight. They’ve bled and died and suffered enormous losses. And we’re still saying, “Why aren’t Muslims standing up? Speaking out?”
Thanks for remembering, Word da man. My original scribblings about the Muslim change in tide towards jihad was back in Feb 2008 on my Sea2Sea blog. I referenced that same article in a Jan 2009 FA post after the official release of the NIC Global Trends report. Indeed, the Muslim world is slowly turning their back on the so-called jihad “freedom fighters”.
However Chris is also correct. That rejection is quiet… noted only in trends and subtle government reports that do not reach the bulk of the world. Their disdain and abhorrence of such mutilation of their more moderate and civil religion… you know, the same guys that tfhr served with?… needs to be more vocal and upfront. I’d ask the same of Christians denouncing their extremists, or environmentalists shunning the ELF terrorists.
Per Aye Chi’s link on another threadfrom the father of a soldier on the base:
A “all-American” guy (according to his cousin), born and raised in the USA, shouting something in Arabic as he shot soldiers being to a war that he vocally opposed? Arabic is not his native tongue if he’s American. And I doubt that while soldiers are being mowed down by a semi-auto, they are concentrating on specific translations and words.
But I find it a bit odd, tfhr, that you think we can pass this off as anything but religiously motivated, and related to a jihad mentality. You know, that “if it walks like a duck…” argument?
Can you say the same for any of the other lunatics you cited in your articles above? From what I see, they are one off loons. From what we can tell in this early stage, Maj. Hasan was of the same mind as an organized jihad mentality.
Oh yes… bear with me on any further responses… flying out of state tomorrow. Will pick up on the cyber conversation when I can.
Well waterboard his @$$ for info, and when hes useless pop a shot in the ol’ computer and put his lights out for treason.
Last i checked treason was still a death sentence.
Prolly end up with a full pardon by the one.
This is one traitor who is going to get what he deserves – I hope !!!!! What about the other traitor in the White House ?? How long will we have to put up with him and how bad will it get ???
@madeleine7
Well, i dont think “the other traitor” is a “traitor” as much as i think he is probably the dumbest self righteous/absorbed S.O.B ever to grace the White house’s halls.
@MataHarley:
Mata, I think his Islamic religious beliefs did play a part in this. But it doesn’t seem like a pure-bred homegrown jihadist type of incident to me (although I freely admit I only have speculation to go on here). What brought him to this breaking point seems to consist of a mixed recipe of a perception of persecution- both personal as well as ethnic/racial/religious, psychological weakness in handling stresses in life, fortified by anti-U.S. foreign policy beliefs/politics and Islamic identification, with sympathies toward the Jihad movement.
I just think this is a sort of hybrid of your typical mass murderer who snaps under whatever feelings of stress and societal persecution he’s feeling, and alignment with the jihadis, based on religious/ethnic/political identity. Not just purely ideological, based solely upon religion and political Islam.
I dunno….
@tfhr: I will agree on one of your premises: all Jihadists are nut cases. This was merely one. And don’t lecture me about what it is to be an American. If they are so bloody full of patriotism, I’d like to see some activities from the Muslim community at large as proof that they are Americans first. You will not see that because they are Muslims first. The “peaceful” Muslims are complicit if they don’t take active steps to out the radicals; if they don’t publicly separate them from the bigger community; if they are guilty by omission.
Take your PC crap and stuff it. I’m in no mood for jerks like you.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_go_ot/us_fort_hood_shoooting_classmate
WASHINGTON – A classmate of the Fort Hood shooting suspect says Maj. Nidal Hasan was an outspoken opponent of the U.S. war on terror and called it a “war against Islam.”
Dr. Val Finnell was a classmate of Hasan’s at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md. Both attended a master’s in public health program in 2007 and 2008.
Finnell says he got to know Hasan in an environmental health class. At the end of the class, students gave presentations. Finnell says other classmates wrote on subjects such as dry cleaning chemicals and mold in homes, but Hasan’s topic was whether the war against terror was “a war against Islam.” Finnell described Hasan as a “vociferous opponent” of the terror war.
Finnell says Hasan told classmates he was “a Muslim first and an American second.”
******************************************************************************
Ok, Bottom line, this character did not belong in the US Army. He should have been separated and booted out after that statement. Period. The Army screwed up. Don’t hand me any Politically Correct BS on this either. He was a Commissioned Officer. He took an Oath.
Lets see how the Article 32 Investigation goes. I do hope that this is brought up in the process.
I think those around him were brow-beat by political correctness. And it should be a lesson learned for any more out there, like him.
I am all for ethnic, religious, and nationality profiling. And I see nothing racist or prejudiced in that at all. Above all else, is behavioral profiling; and when all these things converge to give off warning alarm bells, it is the height of idiocy to ignore the sign posts and do nothing, so as not to offend civil rights groups and be accused of bigotry.
A caller to the Michael Medved Show yesterday mentioned how he served alongside a Navy man who talked of how the only reason he was serving was because his imam told him to; that he didn’t want to be there in the military, but did so because he was told. I believe the caller also said the guy had anti-U.S. foreign policy views. Medved asked the caller if he had reported anything about the guy. The caller said he did, but since there’s no crime, there was nothing to be done.
Picked up from a post at NQ.
Bob McCarty writes:
Incredibly, it appears that Maj. Malik Nidal Hasan, the alleged shooter in the massacre that resulted in at least 12 dead and 31 wounded at Fort Hood [on November 5], served on the Homeland Security Policy Institute’s presidential transition task force between April 2008 and January 2009 when Barack Obama was inaugurated as the nation’s 44th president.
Read it all.
According to this,
The task force was not officially affiliated with the White House. It was a project of the Homeland Security Policy Institute, an independent thinktank housed at George Washington University, aimed at drafting policy recommendations for the incoming Obama administration. ”
http://alwaysonwatch2.blogspot.com/2009/11/major-malik-nidal-on-bhos-transition.html
Great, just great. Not.
Mata, have a safe trip. Perhaps you are going to DC to let our Representatives on Capitol Hill know how we feel about the healthcare bill! 😉
Frankly, it’s time for PC to END…. to be replaced with a NEW concept…C.S.!!!! COMMON SENSE!!! Something that’s been severely LACKING for some time in America now… and, WE NEED IT BACK!! I’ve worked with and known Muslems too…. they were “european” muslems (Yugoslavia and Romanian’s) and definitely NOT wackjobs…. seems the middle eastern/far eastern ones are the more likely ones to go ballistic…. that said, what to do with THIS guy??? Treat him as a TRAITOR!! He took an oath to the US.. and broke it, then KILLED a truckload if innocent people!!
What would HANK do??? Video camera’s… firing squad. First dip ALL the bullets in pork, and load em up, while this cretin watches.. so he’ll DIE KNOWING he’s going to HELL according to his own beliefs….shoot him, then BURY him in a coffin filled with pig guts…. take film, add a commentary that from now on, ALL US military ammo is pork fat coated, so ALL shot and killed with it go to hell, no Virgins….no fun… then mail it to Al Jezeera and tell em to run THAT!! Any more terrorist bullshit, and we start bombing them, with PORK SLIME!! They can ALL go to hell that way!! No more Mr. Nice guy…. straighten up, or go to hell!!! and OPEC??? Barrel of oil is 80 bux??? So is a bushel of wheat!! enough already…..
So endeth the rant….maybe a bit over the top….but i’m sick of these pussies in Government letting this shit go on, just so we “don’t offend” someone!!!! Don’t like it here?? Get the Fork back where you came from!!!! Planes leave every 15 minutes!! GOOD BYE!!
One last question….a MILITARY base??? WE are in a “state of war” against terrorism??? Why in the HELL weren’t our boys ARMED TO THE TEETH!!!! they are the friggin ARMY!!! Sitting ducks!!! What kind of Military is OBAMA running?!?!?!?! DAMN!!
@AnnMonterey:
“If they are so bloody full of patriotism….”
Think about that for a moment.
Now, I’ve told you that I’ve served alongside Muslims in my time in the United States Army. These particular people put their lives on the line for you, me, our families, and their own families. What more do you want?
What else can a person do to convince you that that they’ve invested all they have to give in the defense of our country?
Remember that we are talking about two entirely different groups of people here: The people you know and the people you don’t know. If you are suspicious of someone you don’t know, I’d give you credit for being wary. If you are convinced that they are malevolent for being something you don’t know, then I say you’ve stepped off on a poorly formed assumption that ignores the fact that Americans of every stripe make this country work and within that vast collection of individuals there are Muslim Americans that are serving our country honorably.
During WWII Japanese Americans bore the brunt of much hatred following Pearl Harbor. I can understand that and I also do not believe FDR was entirely wrong for taking the step to incarcerate so many of them. Had the means been available to be more selective in those days, I suppose they would have done so but there was a war to be fought and political sensitivities don’t match up with security threats in my book.
“…jerks like [me].” Well, AnnMonterey, I’ve been called much worse. I’ve even had people try to tell me not to deploy because they thought that the war was wrong. When you raise your hand and take the oath, you don’t get to make that decision anymore. Regardless of that, I went to Iraq because I wanted to help. Not bragging but I did help and by that I mean I helped kill al Qaeda terrorists in al Anbar. If you find my defense of those Americans serving in our military that worship differently that you to be too much for you to stomach, then satisfy yourself with whatever insults you think will help. I really don’t care. I prefer to target those that would do us harm and not waste time, effort, and ammunition on those that don’t and find no value in maligning those that do serve honorably.
A little search for info on the “nisei” will shed some light…. these guys went GONZO to prove their worth and loyalty to the U.S. !!!! Amazing stuff…. maybe we need to try and set up a group like this again ( for islamic soldiers)…. might just start something!! All “fires” need a “spark” to take off!!!! couldn’t hurt….
Now if you’re thinking “how could this guy say this after his rant above”?? it’s really simple….. If you”re good… we treat you good….. or you’re BAD.. you get what you get!! I hold this belief for EVERYONE!! Foreign AND Domestic!! LOL!!!! Well, except for politicians, Judges and cops etc… you took a SWORN OATH… so in MY mind, if they go bad….they get TWICE the level of “punishment” that “john Doe” on the street might get…. because they SWORE to you and me, to be “above” it all, AND us!!
Does that make any sense to you??
@Hankster58:
You’re right about political correctness. It is dangerous and damaging no matter where you find it. I once heard political correctness described as “New Age Stalinism” and I think those three words sum it up better than any paragraph I could write.
As for “armed to the teeth”, I can tell you that carrying a weapon at all times is a terrific burden. What do I mean by that? Soldiers are accountable for any weapon and any ammunition issued with it. Let one soldier on FT Hood lose accountability for a weapon and the CG could very well lock down the post until the weapon is recovered. FT Hood is massive and such a recovery effort would obstruct operations and paralyze the post. If you’re going to issue weapons, then you should be issuing body armor too. Where does it stop? I’ve lived in a war zone and you can get used to wearing your kevlar and body armor for great lengths of time and you can get used to hauling a weapon and basic load around but you’re primary focus is the job, so 24-7, that really is just a part of what you do. There is no family there. You won’t have to pile into your POV each morning to make it to a PT formation with full battle rattle on or grab your M4 to talk a walk down to the latrine. Coming home to a CONUS assignment gives a soldier a chance to recover from months and months of living right on or near the edge. That this heinous act occurred on our soil just makes it all the worse.
Taking this specific act into consideration, what might have happened if several dozen soldiers had tried to engage their attacker at once in a crowded room? It also took several hours for the authorities to determine if there was more than one shooter or not. Considering how bad the carnage was with just one person spraying rounds, how much worse might it have been if friendly fire casualties had been added as one soldier or group of soldiers mistook one another for the attacker(s)? Who would the arriving police engage first?
This event has evoked strong emotions as people register their disgust and anger. The Army does not benefit from decisions made in that vein. As much as I dislike Barack Obama, the decision to secure weapons in unit arms rooms has been the practice that has worked for the Army for decades and is not the President’s call, nor should it be.
May have worked for decades, but TODAY, with the “screen door” border security we have…. locking down weapons at a possible terrorist target is stupid in my opinion, for what it’s worth!! AS to packing, I have a CCW and carrying my 9 is no problem, so I don’t see how it could be such a hardship for ‘G.I. Joe!!!! Besides, I was taught the “handgun” is what you use to protect yourself until you can GET to the “big stuff” .. main combat weapon…. such as until you can get to the armory etc… maybe some feel the need to be cautious… but i’ll bet you this weeks pay, those twelve DEAD GUYS wish they had been armed, up until the end!!! 12 died…. you think trained fighting men shooting at a psycho would have been WORSE casualty wise??? I doubt it personally…. but that’s just me.
@MataHarley:
I’ll focus on this line from your comment:
“From what we can tell in this early stage, Maj. Hasan was of the same mind as an organized jihad mentality.”
It is still early and too soon to draw conclusions but Hasan’s actions in and of themselves did not require organization. His anger and hatred were probably all the inspiration he required but at the same time, I would not be surprised if he sought justification in religion and politics.
We saw the murderer at VA Tech kill more than thirty students because he felt that he had somehow been forced to go on his bloody spree. If he had been Muslim, none of us would have been surprised to learn that he had yelled “Allah Akbar”. My contention is that the insanity that drives these individuals to commit horrendous acts of violence precedes all else but that they will inevitably pass the blame and attempt to justify their crimes.
We may learn that there was an effort on Hasan’s part to communicate with others sharing his views and designs for bloodshed. If that proves to be the case, then this becomes an act of terrorism but until then, I see it along the same lines as Wordsmith’s “hybrid”.
I hope you had a safe trip and I look forward to hearing your response.
Can a former officer tell me whether it is accepted for a field grade officer to make incendiary and treasonous remarks in front of many witnesses without arrest and court martial?
Is it still illegal for an enlisted man to make such remarks?
The people who ignored these remarks or the party that excused these remarks are just as guilty of murder as the shooter. Despite the spin that we are going to hear from the White House Ditherers.
@Hankster58:
There isn’t even a screen on that door – it’s nearly wide open as far as I’m concerned and that’s a disgrace. But Hasan was born in America, so let’s consider the border a separate issue for this discussion.
Again, I’m speaking from personal experience with soldiers and weapons. Your idea of arming everyone 24-7 is impractical and would result in large numbers of deaths and injuries every year. Accidental discharges happen but multiply that by about 500,000 and you begin to get the picture.
It is a frustrating situation and I wish there was a way we could be sure that something like this could never happen again but I don’t think that’s going to be possible, even if we did arm everyone in uniform at each and every CONUS assignment for the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to the recruiter at the local shopping center. I have no way of knowing if there is another Hasan out there but quite frankly I wouldn’t want to have an armorer hand him an M4 and basic load to find out.
I know he was “born here”… my point was that ANYONE else could come in…. this dude was a local, but with no “walls, who or how many MAY come next?? AS to your worry about more ND’s and accidents etc…. I expected more proficiency from our boys…. maybe I expect too much. or you too little???? I have never had an ND myself… and if they keep thier duty weapons holstered like you are SUPPOSED to unless “duty calls”….. where would this rash of accidents come from??? Not picking on you, BUT your angle plays right into the lefty take…. “keep expectations low” …. I’m from the Conservative side of “lets strive for a HIGHER level of competence”!!! What say you??
The difference between a violent “christian extremist” and a violent jihadist, is the “christian extremist” kills in spite of the teachings of Jesus, and the jihadist kills because he is following the way of mohammad and the teachings of the koran. All those ‘moderate muslims’ out there who supposedly have no intention on harming non-muslims are just a koran lesson away from turning jihadist. I think muslims have no place in the US military. Its like the fox guarding the hen house.