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Patvann
15 years ago
The problem here. is that you (and many others) seem to think that the Paulians are some sort of conservative-type, Repub-leaning Constitutionalists. Nothing could be further from the truth. The “giant” outpouring of support the man got, was ONLY the result of his stance for the following: Legalized drug use, and the ending of the Iraqi war. Along with being heavily laden with 9-11-Truthers, this bunch will prove 1 of 2 things, (but most likely both)….Paulians are nuts, or if connected with the Repubs, will make Repubs look stupid.
Repubs don’t need them, Repubs need to return to conservatism as espoused by Reagan, Goldwater, Rush, and now Mark Levin.
The “giant” outpouring of support the man got, was ONLY the result of his stance for the following: Legalized drug use, and the ending of the Iraqi war. Along with being heavily laden with 9-11-Truthers,
Dang, Mike… t’would be nice if the Libertarians listened to you. Unfortunately, they are confirmed 3rd party types thru and thru.
But one never knows. Obama may change all that… got another year and a half before the next eternal POTUS campaign starts (tho Obama’s never left the campaign trail). With the damage he’s doing, they may just hold their nose, and vote GOP next time in self-defense.
Then again, all depends on who the GOP picks, doesn’t it? Another Democrat-light candidate just ain’t going to cut the mustard.
Patvann, Ron Paul’s support comes primarily from Libertarians, who traditionally stand tighter in the ranks with conservatives than liberal/progress/Euro-socialists. I doubt they would cotton to you calling them all “nuts”…. But like every form of political animal, some are, some aren’t. And Ron Paul has some very good qualities. Especially when it comes to fiscal responsibility.
But I assure you, if Libertarians do hold their nose and vote GOP to prevent a 2nd Obama reign of unmitigated power, they will do so keeping the GOP at an arm’s length. Frankly, they’d be more appalled at being associates with Republicans than vice versa.
So the GOP will not suffer with their presence any more than the Democrats suffer with the self-professed Communist and Socialist party members. As they say, politics makes for odd bedfellows.
ditto
15 years ago
@ Mike
That was a pretty arrogant ending speech of your’s, that many Ron Paul supporters would read as insulting. Much like the Democrats telling the Republicans to shut-T-F-up and vote for our bills or our media friends will tell the people that you are obstructionists without a plan. This “it’s our way or else” attitude is exactly why the Republican’s have lost the support of limited government Constitutionalists. On top of Bush’s out of control spending, gutting of our 4th amendment rights, while the Democrats going after the 2nd amendment and their own refusal to follow the Constitution.
If the Republicans want the Constitutionalists support, they need to return to their roots. Other wise it’s a choice of voting against “whichever candidate/party you currently like least.”
@ Pantvann
Most “Paulians” are better educated on these issues than most yellow-dog Republicans or Democrats. Many Republicans love to bash Ross Perot supporters because they feel that he “stole your votes.” Well, Boo-Hoo-Hoo!! The truth is that the votes of the centrists, moderates, (or whatever the hell else anyone wants to call them,) do not belong to any one party although they ARE the ones that decide the elections. THESE people think that both parties suck and that most of their “leadership can F-O. Insulting them, their intelligence, or their “sanity” will gain you squat. As for those Republicans like you who discount them except for the time you need their votes, well I guess by THEIR opinions, you can join your party’s leadership.
If you want their votes, you need to earn their respect, support and you damn well better listen to what they have to say. Otherwise you can keep losing elections while you wrap yourself up in the pity and self-centered obstinacy of your own party.
ruaqtpi2
15 years ago
Ditto,
Mega-dittos, my friend. You hit the nails on their respective heads (as did you, Mata.)
Libertarians are fiercely loyal to their cause. They may be idealists, which makes them good targets for the fringe “screamers” on both ends of the political spectrum, but I consider them the closest to strict (constitutional) constructionists.
To win their support (and the support of most moderates), the GOP must do five things much better than they ever have:
1) Be inclusive of the religious right *without* catering to them solely;
2) Effectively refute leftist arguments that the GOP is only concerned with the needs of the wealthy and big business;
3) Develop a position on abortion that is based on compassion for the mother as well as for the unborn;
4) Develop a position on birth-control that reflects the reality of the day; and
5) Be more vocal in support of equal rights for women; and
6) Practice fiscal conservatism that is not based so heavily on tax cuts (this may be the hardest.)
Basically, the GOP needs to be more tolerant and inclusionary, without losing sight of its fiscally conservative ideals.
Jeff V
Fit fit
15 years ago
Just sit at the back and be quiet for a time.
Wow, you sure know how to sweet talk people. Thanks for the laughs again Mike.
Sorry folks but my rule for folks who jumped ship is that they are weclome to come back, but they have to take a seat in the back and keep quiet.
That goes for Peggy Noonan, Chris Buckley and Ron Paulbots.
If the Paulbots really are concerned about fiscal responsibility, as opposed to the other issues Patvann touched on then there’s no better home for them than the GOP.
Also, the Paulbot mantra for so long has been “read the Constitution.” Well, ok, here are two examples above where Obama and the Dems are violating that sacred document. Do Paulbots stand by their declaration or was it just a cover for something else?
Oh, and for the record, I do NOT extend my welcome, such as it is, to 9/11 truthers. Let kooks like that stay with Obama where they belong. People who suffer the delusion that terrorism is not a problem, or is a U.S.government created problem should stick with their own kind.
Lightbringer
15 years ago
@Ditto
Otherwise you can keep losing elections while you wrap yourself up in the pity and self-centered obstinacy of your own party.
Wait… are you talking to Republicans? Or describing the entire history of the Libertarian party?
Don’t get me wrong, I agree with most of your post. But “independents”, and third party supporters are hardly the folks I would be taking election advice from.
…and I thought the correct term was “Paulestinians”.
@Lightbringer:““independents”, and third party supporters are hardly the folks I would be taking election advice from.”
People may recall that in the last election we had a candidate who it was said was perfectly positioned to appeal to the moderate and independent voter.
It didn’t work out too well did it.
P.S. Paulians, Paulbots, Paulestinians, RP’rs, Grim RP’rs…. it’s all good.
…and I thought the correct term was “Paulestinians”.
My personal faves (I take credit- although the first one was also a WWF character), are “Paul Bearers” and “(Ron) Paul Reverists”.
If you want to be particularly inflammatory and obnoxious, “Paul Pots” is a good one.
marinetbryant
15 years ago
“..any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.”
People always omit this part when talking about “law of the land”.
Tom
Hard Right
15 years ago
I call them Ronulans.I DO NOT want them back in the GOP. Every one that I have encountered
IS NUTS.
I DO NOT want Jew hating, drug loving, 9/11 conspiracy believing, sutrrender monkies
like them screwing up the party further.
Red Herrings: The 9/11 conspiracy folk were never part of the right. They are from the extreme fringe left. The same goes for the “surrenders.”
Ron Paul supporters are not “Jew haters” That’s the American Nazi Party and skinheads who’s ilk were staunch Democrats prior to WWII.
There have been third parties since the earliest times of our country’s inseption, and they serve a useful and healthy purpose. Both of the two current major parties were at one time minority parties. Many of the creators of this country abhorred party systems because they fragmented society and sometimes use bully tactics to control their members.
The Libertarians are more pro-business than even the Republican party, Not all Constitutionalists are Libertarians. John McCain did not appeal to Ron Paul Supporters either. (Although Sara Palin did because she’s a not a RINO but a old style conservative Republican.) Just because he was “moderate” doesn’t mean he was the right type of moderate.
The Reform Party votes never belonged exclusively to Republicans or Democrats.
It was the Republican party moving away from it’s roots, that caused a good many to jump ship. Go back to those core values and they may return. Many staunch Republicans simply decided not to vote because they didn’t like McCain and because the party has clearly lost it’s way.
Many of you still don’t get it. You are like a bitter obstinate father who’s overbearing ways creates a gulf between all around him. He would rather disown his family and die a lonely death then admit that he was the cause. A good many of these voters you malign would rather vote Republican, but the party as it stands doesn’t give them much reason to. After driving these voters away,simply flipping them off and saying “good riddance” will never help your cause, and will only serve to isolate the party from voters who used to support it. If those in the Republican party want to continue to alienate all these potential voters buy pretending that the party’s change was not the cause, and wallow in their own egos, then they deserve to lose. this “My way or the highway” mantra will not serve the party well.
Hard Right
15 years ago
Considering the Ronulans blame America’s political policies for 9/11 and think pretending there is no terrorist threat will keep us safe, I SERIOUSLY doubt they would rather vote GOP. BTW, I saw the RP forum and the anti-semitism was all over.
Ecartman
15 years ago
George Will shoulda thought of this before he torpedoed McCain/Palin. I always thought Ron Paul was a nut job, but in retrospect maybe he was the only one speaking the truth all along…
jpm100
15 years ago
“The Supremacy Clause in the United States Constitution, article VI, paragraph 2 states that treaties are the “supreme law of the land” and yet Obama is violating the North American Free Trade Agreement with his unilateral decision to ban Mexican trucks from American highways as a favor to the Teamsters Union. ”
Might want to be careful what is touted as the meaning of supreme law of the land. Because Obama will treaty us up with things like cap and trade, UN income taxes, UN military tribunals, etc.
Lightbringer
15 years ago
@Ditto
I am not sure what makes you think that most of us here “do not get it”. In fact, your own statements about what sank the Rs in the last few elections prove my point. Conservatives out in the real world get it very clearly. The Republicans lost their way and stopped governing conservatively, hence the low support and turnout.
What you do not seem to “get” is that most of us believe that it will be easier to cut the squishy moderate (and downright Statist) “cancer” from the Republican party than it will be to build a coalition including neo-nazis and nutjobs into a conservative party that gets more than %5 of the vote. Even if every conservative American suddenly jumped over to the Libertarian party tomorrow, and then we excommunicated all the fringies the day after, the MSM would have a field day and the Democrats would have their campaign commercials write themselves for decades. Say what you will about the MSM, but millions and millions of moderates who only think about politics every four years still swallow their rancid pablum like mother’s milk.
Aaron
15 years ago
I don’t know how we could get the Paulestinians (I really like “Paul Pots” BTW; thanks for that one) back in the GOP, since they were never here to begin with. If you recall, the Paulestinian-in-cheif had a link to instructions on how to change your party registration (in order to vote for him in the GOP primaries) on his website.
As for needing them to stop the DC voting act, it’s going to be fought in Congress either this or next year within the Congress. If I recall correctly, there’s only one Paultard in Congress and he shows up to pass out on top of the “no” button most days — when he’s not too stoned to make anti-semitic remarks on the floor of the House that is — so I think we can rely on him to vote against it.
jeo
15 years ago
Some of us are. But we aren’t sitting in the back and we aren’t being quiet. We’re showing up for conventions, picking candidates to support for various GOP positions, fielding some of our own, and introducing resolutions. Getting our way on a lot of it, too.
Personally, I’m now a precinct chair, and on the county executive committee. One of our guys just got vice chair for his county. We’re getting state sovereignty resolutions passed in a lot of counties, and we’re planning to bring that up at districts and state.
The GOP is where it is because they screwed up the last eight years, badly. We’re here to fix it, not to just join up with the same old team that screwed up before.
ChipD
15 years ago
“The Supremacy Clause in the United States Constitution, article VI, paragraph 2 states that treaties are the “supreme law of the land” and yet Obama is violating the North American Free Trade Agreement with his unilateral decision to ban Mexican trucks from American highways as a favor to the Teamsters Union. ”
Um, there are treaties aplenty that make torture a crime, and compel all signing nations, of which we are one, to actively prosecute it. Great Britain, at this very moment, is debating opening criminal investigations into whether or not their government officials participated in torture when they cooperated with our government. Our government has preferred to ignore the issue.
The previous Executive Branch legal thorists professed that the President has unlimited power to do anything he wished, provided he stated that it was in the name of national security. The previous Chief Executive, AND THE PRESENT ONE, have acted along the lines of this theory, which has not yet been tested in any court.
And Mexican trucks is what gets George Will all up in a lather?
Waterboarding JUST THREE TERRORISTS put a stop to terrorism that could have claimed tens of thousands of lives.
Get some perspective.
P.S. Obama will thank you for enabling his anti-constitutional effort.
Patvann
15 years ago
I think it’s important to separate “Paulistinians” (love that term) from the Libertarians. When I was a member during the 90’s, the only REAL difference I had with them was treaties, and projection of our military. Most of the time we had long discussions about the Federalist papers, and the shredding of the Constitution by Clinton.
I voted with them instead of Bush for his first term.
These creatures that came out of the woodwork this last time around were something never seen before, and in the end I firmly believe they were nothing more than Obama supporters who only recently learned how to spell “Constitution”, but wanted (needed) more attention than the Obamabots were willing to give them.
The Repubs can and should go after the “old-school” Libertarians, who do indeed lean to the right, but stayed home this last go-around. (As did many Repubs.)
We should be a bit Borg-like, and look carefully at what we can use from their stated platform to bring them in.
Ron Paul may be right 50% of the time, but that other 50% would doom the Repubs. Libertarians might be right 75% of the time, and the remaining 25% can be downplayed as necessary.
We need to be careful what we want from them. There are overlapping “beliefs”, and only those should be sought after because thats where the Repubs went bad.
Gawd how I hated being a Repub for these past 4 years…I WANT MY RONNIE BACK!!! 🙂
P.S. I been hovering around here for a few months, and think this is one of the best sites around, with some of the best poster/commentators. I hope not to embarrass myself. 😉
@Patvann: Glad you have decided to come off “hover” mode and jump in the pool with the rest of us. I’ll try and be gentle.
I’ve been having one of my periodic bouts of Reagan nostalgia too. And to welcome you to the deep end of the pool I have prepared a selection of my favorite Reagan audio clips. Some of his great words and some great jokes too:
Can someone link me to stats that indicate conservatives sat on their hands in ’08? Because from what I recall, it wasn’t true. If they didn’t come out for McCain, they came out against Obama, and were energized, for the most part, by Palin. Didn’t almost the same number of Republicans come out for McCain that came out for Bush in ’04? And that McCain lost because Obama attracted the ever-valuable moderates/independents/centrists?
Some self-identified Republicans were probably lured by the siren song of the transracial/post-ethnic glass-ceiling breaking elegant, teleprompter-speaking Radiant One.
Since I posted that Republicans had low turnout, I guess your request for a link is at least partially directed towards me. Actually, I believe that you are correct that registered Republicans showed up in similar numbers to ’04. I should have posted that right leaning moderates and independents that would normally vote Republican grew disenchanted because the Rs had “lost their way”, which led to lower support. The way I worded it was misleading.
It seems to me that the moderate hordes, being somewhat conflicted over their personal political direction, are prone to supporting whichever side shows the greatest conviction in a clear cut strategy. Nevermind that Obama’s strategy was much more radical than most moderates would have normally supported. He showed confidence and consistency, and his words painted a moderate veneer over his true intentions which was more than enough to satisfy the vague and shallow attention that all too many moderates pay towards politics. McCain might have had the conviction part of the equation, but his ideas kept fluttering from right to center and back again. Unfortunately, this fluttering mirrored the Bush administration and Republican Congress and their on again/off again conservative behavior of recent years. Mix in a healthy dose of media spin to highlight such similarities, and even Palin’s more steadfast demeanor was not enough to turn the trick.
Patvann
15 years ago
@Mike’s America
*snif* Thanks dood. I’ll sleep a little better tonight, remembering the Great “C”.
NJ Hendo
15 years ago
Republican Party is just as Socialistic as the Democrats. Cultural Conservatism is the business of the mainstream Right – fiscal conservatism will never be their forte. Any Ron Paulbot who “comes home” should never have left to begin with. The word non-interventionism are in no way part of the Left or Right policy, as Obama/Clinton make clear. WHAT IT IS TIME FOR IS: Democrats and Republican to “come together” and accept how much they both get off on Big Government across the board.
About the only place you will find any historic evidence of EFFECTIVE fiscal responsibility and small government conservatism is withing the GOP.
A lot of these third party and fringe groups do a LOT of talking and that’s about it. Since NONE of them will ever get elected, they simply enable the Democrats to keep on getting away with murder.
The problem here. is that you (and many others) seem to think that the Paulians are some sort of conservative-type, Repub-leaning Constitutionalists. Nothing could be further from the truth. The “giant” outpouring of support the man got, was ONLY the result of his stance for the following: Legalized drug use, and the ending of the Iraqi war. Along with being heavily laden with 9-11-Truthers, this bunch will prove 1 of 2 things, (but most likely both)….Paulians are nuts, or if connected with the Repubs, will make Repubs look stupid.
Repubs don’t need them, Repubs need to return to conservatism as espoused by Reagan, Goldwater, Rush, and now Mark Levin.
Must….resist….>rrrrr<....impulse to.....defend......>aargh<......Ron Paul!
Word, you doth so make me laugh!
Dang, Mike… t’would be nice if the Libertarians listened to you. Unfortunately, they are confirmed 3rd party types thru and thru.
But one never knows. Obama may change all that… got another year and a half before the next eternal POTUS campaign starts (tho Obama’s never left the campaign trail). With the damage he’s doing, they may just hold their nose, and vote GOP next time in self-defense.
Then again, all depends on who the GOP picks, doesn’t it? Another Democrat-light candidate just ain’t going to cut the mustard.
Patvann, Ron Paul’s support comes primarily from Libertarians, who traditionally stand tighter in the ranks with conservatives than liberal/progress/Euro-socialists. I doubt they would cotton to you calling them all “nuts”…. But like every form of political animal, some are, some aren’t. And Ron Paul has some very good qualities. Especially when it comes to fiscal responsibility.
But I assure you, if Libertarians do hold their nose and vote GOP to prevent a 2nd Obama reign of unmitigated power, they will do so keeping the GOP at an arm’s length. Frankly, they’d be more appalled at being associates with Republicans than vice versa.
So the GOP will not suffer with their presence any more than the Democrats suffer with the self-professed Communist and Socialist party members. As they say, politics makes for odd bedfellows.
@ Mike
That was a pretty arrogant ending speech of your’s, that many Ron Paul supporters would read as insulting. Much like the Democrats telling the Republicans to shut-T-F-up and vote for our bills or our media friends will tell the people that you are obstructionists without a plan. This “it’s our way or else” attitude is exactly why the Republican’s have lost the support of limited government Constitutionalists. On top of Bush’s out of control spending, gutting of our 4th amendment rights, while the Democrats going after the 2nd amendment and their own refusal to follow the Constitution.
If the Republicans want the Constitutionalists support, they need to return to their roots. Other wise it’s a choice of voting against “whichever candidate/party you currently like least.”
@ Pantvann
Most “Paulians” are better educated on these issues than most yellow-dog Republicans or Democrats. Many Republicans love to bash Ross Perot supporters because they feel that he “stole your votes.” Well, Boo-Hoo-Hoo!! The truth is that the votes of the centrists, moderates, (or whatever the hell else anyone wants to call them,) do not belong to any one party although they ARE the ones that decide the elections. THESE people think that both parties suck and that most of their “leadership can F-O. Insulting them, their intelligence, or their “sanity” will gain you squat. As for those Republicans like you who discount them except for the time you need their votes, well I guess by THEIR opinions, you can join your party’s leadership.
If you want their votes, you need to earn their respect, support and you damn well better listen to what they have to say. Otherwise you can keep losing elections while you wrap yourself up in the pity and self-centered obstinacy of your own party.
Ditto,
Mega-dittos, my friend. You hit the nails on their respective heads (as did you, Mata.)
Libertarians are fiercely loyal to their cause. They may be idealists, which makes them good targets for the fringe “screamers” on both ends of the political spectrum, but I consider them the closest to strict (constitutional) constructionists.
To win their support (and the support of most moderates), the GOP must do five things much better than they ever have:
1) Be inclusive of the religious right *without* catering to them solely;
2) Effectively refute leftist arguments that the GOP is only concerned with the needs of the wealthy and big business;
3) Develop a position on abortion that is based on compassion for the mother as well as for the unborn;
4) Develop a position on birth-control that reflects the reality of the day; and
5) Be more vocal in support of equal rights for women; and
6) Practice fiscal conservatism that is not based so heavily on tax cuts (this may be the hardest.)
Basically, the GOP needs to be more tolerant and inclusionary, without losing sight of its fiscally conservative ideals.
Jeff V
Wow, you sure know how to sweet talk people. Thanks for the laughs again Mike.
Sorry folks but my rule for folks who jumped ship is that they are weclome to come back, but they have to take a seat in the back and keep quiet.
That goes for Peggy Noonan, Chris Buckley and Ron Paulbots.
If the Paulbots really are concerned about fiscal responsibility, as opposed to the other issues Patvann touched on then there’s no better home for them than the GOP.
Also, the Paulbot mantra for so long has been “read the Constitution.” Well, ok, here are two examples above where Obama and the Dems are violating that sacred document. Do Paulbots stand by their declaration or was it just a cover for something else?
Oh, and for the record, I do NOT extend my welcome, such as it is, to 9/11 truthers. Let kooks like that stay with Obama where they belong. People who suffer the delusion that terrorism is not a problem, or is a U.S.government created problem should stick with their own kind.
@Ditto
Wait… are you talking to Republicans? Or describing the entire history of the Libertarian party?
Don’t get me wrong, I agree with most of your post. But “independents”, and third party supporters are hardly the folks I would be taking election advice from.
…and I thought the correct term was “Paulestinians”.
@Lightbringer:““independents”, and third party supporters are hardly the folks I would be taking election advice from.”
People may recall that in the last election we had a candidate who it was said was perfectly positioned to appeal to the moderate and independent voter.
It didn’t work out too well did it.
P.S. Paulians, Paulbots, Paulestinians, RP’rs, Grim RP’rs…. it’s all good.
My personal faves (I take credit- although the first one was also a WWF character), are “Paul Bearers” and “(Ron) Paul Reverists”.
If you want to be particularly inflammatory and obnoxious, “Paul Pots” is a good one.
“..any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.”
People always omit this part when talking about “law of the land”.
Tom
I call them Ronulans.I DO NOT want them back in the GOP. Every one that I have encountered
IS NUTS.
I DO NOT want Jew hating, drug loving, 9/11 conspiracy believing, sutrrender monkies
like them screwing up the party further.
Oh, yeah…forgot that one.
Did we forget “Paultards?”
Red Herrings: The 9/11 conspiracy folk were never part of the right. They are from the extreme fringe left. The same goes for the “surrenders.”
Ron Paul supporters are not “Jew haters” That’s the American Nazi Party and skinheads who’s ilk were staunch Democrats prior to WWII.
There have been third parties since the earliest times of our country’s inseption, and they serve a useful and healthy purpose. Both of the two current major parties were at one time minority parties. Many of the creators of this country abhorred party systems because they fragmented society and sometimes use bully tactics to control their members.
The Libertarians are more pro-business than even the Republican party, Not all Constitutionalists are Libertarians. John McCain did not appeal to Ron Paul Supporters either. (Although Sara Palin did because she’s a not a RINO but a old style conservative Republican.) Just because he was “moderate” doesn’t mean he was the right type of moderate.
The Reform Party votes never belonged exclusively to Republicans or Democrats.
It was the Republican party moving away from it’s roots, that caused a good many to jump ship. Go back to those core values and they may return. Many staunch Republicans simply decided not to vote because they didn’t like McCain and because the party has clearly lost it’s way.
Many of you still don’t get it. You are like a bitter obstinate father who’s overbearing ways creates a gulf between all around him. He would rather disown his family and die a lonely death then admit that he was the cause. A good many of these voters you malign would rather vote Republican, but the party as it stands doesn’t give them much reason to. After driving these voters away,simply flipping them off and saying “good riddance” will never help your cause, and will only serve to isolate the party from voters who used to support it. If those in the Republican party want to continue to alienate all these potential voters buy pretending that the party’s change was not the cause, and wallow in their own egos, then they deserve to lose. this “My way or the highway” mantra will not serve the party well.
Considering the Ronulans blame America’s political policies for 9/11 and think pretending there is no terrorist threat will keep us safe, I SERIOUSLY doubt they would rather vote GOP. BTW, I saw the RP forum and the anti-semitism was all over.
George Will shoulda thought of this before he torpedoed McCain/Palin. I always thought Ron Paul was a nut job, but in retrospect maybe he was the only one speaking the truth all along…
“The Supremacy Clause in the United States Constitution, article VI, paragraph 2 states that treaties are the “supreme law of the land” and yet Obama is violating the North American Free Trade Agreement with his unilateral decision to ban Mexican trucks from American highways as a favor to the Teamsters Union. ”
Might want to be careful what is touted as the meaning of supreme law of the land. Because Obama will treaty us up with things like cap and trade, UN income taxes, UN military tribunals, etc.
@Ditto
I am not sure what makes you think that most of us here “do not get it”. In fact, your own statements about what sank the Rs in the last few elections prove my point. Conservatives out in the real world get it very clearly. The Republicans lost their way and stopped governing conservatively, hence the low support and turnout.
What you do not seem to “get” is that most of us believe that it will be easier to cut the squishy moderate (and downright Statist) “cancer” from the Republican party than it will be to build a coalition including neo-nazis and nutjobs into a conservative party that gets more than %5 of the vote. Even if every conservative American suddenly jumped over to the Libertarian party tomorrow, and then we excommunicated all the fringies the day after, the MSM would have a field day and the Democrats would have their campaign commercials write themselves for decades. Say what you will about the MSM, but millions and millions of moderates who only think about politics every four years still swallow their rancid pablum like mother’s milk.
I don’t know how we could get the Paulestinians (I really like “Paul Pots” BTW; thanks for that one) back in the GOP, since they were never here to begin with. If you recall, the Paulestinian-in-cheif had a link to instructions on how to change your party registration (in order to vote for him in the GOP primaries) on his website.
As for needing them to stop the DC voting act, it’s going to be fought in Congress either this or next year within the Congress. If I recall correctly, there’s only one Paultard in Congress and he shows up to pass out on top of the “no” button most days — when he’s not too stoned to make anti-semitic remarks on the floor of the House that is — so I think we can rely on him to vote against it.
Some of us are. But we aren’t sitting in the back and we aren’t being quiet. We’re showing up for conventions, picking candidates to support for various GOP positions, fielding some of our own, and introducing resolutions. Getting our way on a lot of it, too.
Personally, I’m now a precinct chair, and on the county executive committee. One of our guys just got vice chair for his county. We’re getting state sovereignty resolutions passed in a lot of counties, and we’re planning to bring that up at districts and state.
The GOP is where it is because they screwed up the last eight years, badly. We’re here to fix it, not to just join up with the same old team that screwed up before.
“The Supremacy Clause in the United States Constitution, article VI, paragraph 2 states that treaties are the “supreme law of the land” and yet Obama is violating the North American Free Trade Agreement with his unilateral decision to ban Mexican trucks from American highways as a favor to the Teamsters Union. ”
Um, there are treaties aplenty that make torture a crime, and compel all signing nations, of which we are one, to actively prosecute it. Great Britain, at this very moment, is debating opening criminal investigations into whether or not their government officials participated in torture when they cooperated with our government. Our government has preferred to ignore the issue.
The previous Executive Branch legal thorists professed that the President has unlimited power to do anything he wished, provided he stated that it was in the name of national security. The previous Chief Executive, AND THE PRESENT ONE, have acted along the lines of this theory, which has not yet been tested in any court.
And Mexican trucks is what gets George Will all up in a lather?
Seriously?
@ChipD: @ChipD: Is waterboarding torture?
I say no.
Is the mass murder of civilians a crime?
I say yes.
Waterboarding JUST THREE TERRORISTS put a stop to terrorism that could have claimed tens of thousands of lives.
Get some perspective.
P.S. Obama will thank you for enabling his anti-constitutional effort.
I think it’s important to separate “Paulistinians” (love that term) from the Libertarians. When I was a member during the 90’s, the only REAL difference I had with them was treaties, and projection of our military. Most of the time we had long discussions about the Federalist papers, and the shredding of the Constitution by Clinton.
I voted with them instead of Bush for his first term.
These creatures that came out of the woodwork this last time around were something never seen before, and in the end I firmly believe they were nothing more than Obama supporters who only recently learned how to spell “Constitution”, but wanted (needed) more attention than the Obamabots were willing to give them.
The Repubs can and should go after the “old-school” Libertarians, who do indeed lean to the right, but stayed home this last go-around. (As did many Repubs.)
We should be a bit Borg-like, and look carefully at what we can use from their stated platform to bring them in.
Ron Paul may be right 50% of the time, but that other 50% would doom the Repubs. Libertarians might be right 75% of the time, and the remaining 25% can be downplayed as necessary.
We need to be careful what we want from them. There are overlapping “beliefs”, and only those should be sought after because thats where the Repubs went bad.
Gawd how I hated being a Repub for these past 4 years…I WANT MY RONNIE BACK!!! 🙂
P.S. I been hovering around here for a few months, and think this is one of the best sites around, with some of the best poster/commentators. I hope not to embarrass myself. 😉
@Patvann: Glad you have decided to come off “hover” mode and jump in the pool with the rest of us. I’ll try and be gentle.
I’ve been having one of my periodic bouts of Reagan nostalgia too. And to welcome you to the deep end of the pool I have prepared a selection of my favorite Reagan audio clips. Some of his great words and some great jokes too:
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And my favorite photo that I took in 1984:
More of my favorite Reagan photos here.
Can someone link me to stats that indicate conservatives sat on their hands in ’08? Because from what I recall, it wasn’t true. If they didn’t come out for McCain, they came out against Obama, and were energized, for the most part, by Palin. Didn’t almost the same number of Republicans come out for McCain that came out for Bush in ’04? And that McCain lost because Obama attracted the ever-valuable moderates/independents/centrists?
Some self-identified Republicans were probably lured by the siren song of the transracial/post-ethnic glass-ceiling breaking elegant, teleprompter-speaking Radiant One.
@Wordsmith
Since I posted that Republicans had low turnout, I guess your request for a link is at least partially directed towards me. Actually, I believe that you are correct that registered Republicans showed up in similar numbers to ’04. I should have posted that right leaning moderates and independents that would normally vote Republican grew disenchanted because the Rs had “lost their way”, which led to lower support. The way I worded it was misleading.
It seems to me that the moderate hordes, being somewhat conflicted over their personal political direction, are prone to supporting whichever side shows the greatest conviction in a clear cut strategy. Nevermind that Obama’s strategy was much more radical than most moderates would have normally supported. He showed confidence and consistency, and his words painted a moderate veneer over his true intentions which was more than enough to satisfy the vague and shallow attention that all too many moderates pay towards politics. McCain might have had the conviction part of the equation, but his ideas kept fluttering from right to center and back again. Unfortunately, this fluttering mirrored the Bush administration and Republican Congress and their on again/off again conservative behavior of recent years. Mix in a healthy dose of media spin to highlight such similarities, and even Palin’s more steadfast demeanor was not enough to turn the trick.
@Mike’s America
*snif* Thanks dood. I’ll sleep a little better tonight, remembering the Great “C”.
Republican Party is just as Socialistic as the Democrats. Cultural Conservatism is the business of the mainstream Right – fiscal conservatism will never be their forte. Any Ron Paulbot who “comes home” should never have left to begin with. The word non-interventionism are in no way part of the Left or Right policy, as Obama/Clinton make clear. WHAT IT IS TIME FOR IS: Democrats and Republican to “come together” and accept how much they both get off on Big Government across the board.
@NJ Hendo: I cry B.S. Hendo.
B.S.
About the only place you will find any historic evidence of EFFECTIVE fiscal responsibility and small government conservatism is withing the GOP.
A lot of these third party and fringe groups do a LOT of talking and that’s about it. Since NONE of them will ever get elected, they simply enable the Democrats to keep on getting away with murder.