To The Maximum Extent of the Law [Reader Post]

If you are speaking philosophically. I believe the government has the right to monitor communications between suspected terrorists and whomever they are calling. And I don’t care where the hell they are located… outside the US or inside. If they are on a suspected list…. go for it, IMHO. I want our intel to know who they are talking to, and about what.

I am all for disrupting, tracking down and capturing or killing terrorists. One does not have to be “for the terrorists” to oppose big brother looking into our private lives here at home. To me it is a simple balance that we can afford to achieve, like getting a warrant if conversations are here in the USA. The law previously and now allowed government to begin listening and apply soon after and still keep it legal. I just want someone outside the Administration (Bush, now Obama) to review what is going on to keep things honest. FISA is not perfect, but it does place a decent construct for the 4th Amendment to be protected.

I used an analogy about a Reagan era law that was targeted to the use of automatic weapons in drug cases (war on drugs) those old laws are now being brought up to prosecute and persecute several former Marines and other former military who worked for Blackwater (as a contractor for the Dept of State). I know the analogy is a bit of a stretch, since there are not direct parallels to the Constitutional issues, but it points to an abuse of a law for the purpose of some government official.

Allowing the government to listen in on “terrorists” would open us up to any interpretation a sitting President and his administration saw fit. Maybe we (people who defend gun rights) might be the target of such eavesdropping? Who decides who is a terrorist and is on the list and what evidence is needed to be considered a terrorist? I just think it is a slippery slope to allow government so much power without checks on it, such as a judge and a warrant.

Rod

I don’t know you. All I know is what you post here which is manifestly uncaring towards the lives of our service members.

If you don’t like being called on the implications ramifications of your positions, a rational actor would proceed to reevaluate the positions. Or one could screech and curse like a typical libtard.

I think you are gross beyond compare to even claim a mantle of legitimacy by invoking the sacrifice of our men and women in arms. You have no shame. I read your essay on another site about being an American. You have no idea what it is to be an American outside of waving a flag and being bellicose in your claims. You are a pinhead ideologue who cannot see beyond his little manhood and instead has to cathect heros to legitimize your positions.

Rod, Furthermore, I have nothing to be ashamed of. Thomas Tamm violated his oath and the law. He should be prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law for having done so.

Those who would pursue a war via the courts are fools, poltroons, or worse. The protagonists and apologists for those policies have the blood of at least three servicemen on their figurative hands.

Well, ROD, If you had bother to read what I had written I never brought anything up about Tamm. My thesis is totally about presidential abuse of power in an abstract (mentioning Bush and Obama’s new administration in a non partisan way) and the fourth Amendment in particular. You have veered off to begin insulting and being intellectually dishonest by making statements like “I’m deeply saddened to see you value the lives of our servicemen so little.” and then restating it like “All I know is what you post here which is manifestly uncaring towards the lives of our service members.” which is a total load of crap. That vitriolic use of the honor of our troops is totally out of line and more people should denounce you using them for political purposes. The problem here in this blog is when there are disagreements with someone perceived to be “left” folks are silent to point out the hypocrisy. It is always a pile on mentality or be rude and claim to be more American than the next guy.

Also if you read my comments you would see my anger over the abuse of power by the government for prosecuting former military who work for Blackwater.

Maybe you want the federal government have unlimited power to listen in to phone conversations (and other means), I DON’T.

Rod, you continue to shamelessly bring up the troops as your cover in a pathetic way. You have no right to invoke their honor to suit your partisan view. You might not like the language I used as a reaction to your misappropriation of the honor of the troops, but I stand behind it, you are an asshole for both invoking them and not retracting your statement. Like I said before you have no shame.

I read the article and was not defending Tamm, I did not make one statement about him or his actions. So you need to pay attention and stop assuming, jumping to conclusions and going off have cocked. Unlike you, I am not going to make some sweeping judgment without knowing more of the facts. Oh, I forgot you are a know-it-all and don’t need all of the facts.

One last thing. It seems like sport for you to attempt to diminish me with your bogus claim about my feelings for our service men and women. Why try to sucker punch someone online with such a powerful statement as, “I don’t know you. All I know is what you post here which is manifestly uncaring towards the lives of our service members.” That seriously is about the lowest crap I have heard dished out online. I hope people who read your posts see how caviler you are by continuing to speak in that way.

mataharley, And since when is silence to be construed as support, or disgust? Just because some of us don’t want to step into other’s battles, do not be so presumptuous as to assume our opinions of those battles.

You are correct, I am a big boy and can speak for myself. I think a raw nerve was hit by Rod with the insinuation he made about my support for the troops.

I retract my assertion about about hypocrisy and apologize for making it.

Rod, you can find whatever you want reprehensible, but you are not the only one to wear the uniform. I gave my pound of flesh, I have buddies that did not come home, so don’t lecture me on support of the troops I served and did my duty. They are not only your brothers and sisters in arms.

MataHarley, your rant was warranted, so no harm no foul.

Rodney, enough already. Do you think the government should have closed down or revoked the FCC licenses of companies that released the Abu Grab photos? You know their first Amendment protections allowed them to release that scum and it cost American lives. Well, they didn’t because of the protection. Was it right to release it, no, but that is how our system works. And that case I believe actually can be connected to lives lost.

I don’t buy your argument about the endangering the troops with safeguards on the fourth Amendment. Maybe you trust the government to be honest brokers on all matters, but I don’t. While you are crusading to save lives, why not take guns away from people in the USA. There are many people killed with handguns etc, why not take them all away? Because we have the 2nd Amendment to protect us from the whims of any given leader. Maybe if they leaked Obama was listening in on “terrorist” groups in the USA and the groups were actually conservative political organizations you might change your mind.

Blast, he did not follow the proper whistle blower channels. He deserves to be prosecuted. Not to mention he decided on his own it was an illegal program–which was not his place or area of knowledge. There is NO excuse or justification for what he did. PERIOD. Your defense of him and “lawfare” is despicable.

Cute, but I’m not buying it. You ARE indirectly defending him. YOU are saying that the NSA surveillance was illegal. Therefore he did the right thing per your reasoning. Really, I have definitely lost some respect for you. You make post after post showing where you stand, then want me to belive you didn’t mean any of it. Let me make it clear to you, the NSA surveilance was NOT illegal. Tamm deserves to be prosecuted by what he himself has said.

You also defended lawfare with your sarcastic little response. Your ignorance on Lawfare is showing. Google Michael Ratner and Jon Eisenberg to learn something.

blast

Molon labe.