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luva the scissors
15 years ago
i have seen the left do and say some pretty awful things to people who admitted to being right leaning. i, personally have been called a racist and told to burn in hell. is that very nice, and that is for disagreeing with them that obama is the second coming of christ. i really believe that he will destroy this country, i really feel that way to many people are uninformed and sucked into his pretty words. are we happy with the direction that this country has been going? not so much, but its not as bad as china, or how russia used to be, we have a great country. why do so many people seem so intent on destroying it? this makes me sad for my kids, it makes me sad for my kids kids. if some of the crazier theories are to be believed then if obama is the false prophet, of the right hand of satan, and you believe the mayan calendar, then the world will end in 2012 anyway. who in the hell knows.
I was working in one of my stores a couple years ago, and and this granola looking lady walked in and looked around for minute then asked, “What state are we in?”
“Wyoming,” I answered.
“Oh my,” she said, “you’re the people that killed that beautiful boy!” referring to Matthew Shepard.
I’m pretty sure I didn’t have anything to do with what happened to Matthew Shepard nearly 200 miles away, but this is how the libs think. Because I live in a state where a young gay man was murdered years ago, she looked at me like I was a murderer myself. They are using the same rational for calling us right wingers “Nazis”, “Fascists”, “and “Racists”.
Yes, there is some racism in this country, and there will be votes cast both for and against Obama completely based on his race. But there will also be a lot of votes cast because of stupid reasons like,”he’s not old and he’s gonna change things,” as my mother-in-law so artfully said. The sad thing is most of these idiots don’t even know what they want changed.
If the change they want is a supreme court that will take away our individual gun rights, then they will get the change they want. If they want unlimited abortion for any reason, then they will get the change they want. If they want to punish this nation’s successfull small businessmen, and “share the wealth” with those who don’t want to work for it, then they will get the change they want.
If you don’t want these things, according to them you are no better than someone who denies the holocaust. Except, Obama wants to meet with the leaders of those countries without precondition doesn’t he?
durhamagyar
15 years ago
I, personally, am a left-leaning moderate with conservative roots and a history of voting for both parties. I have always been, and will surely always be, registered unaffiliated. Part of the reason I would never be involved with one party or another is because of the people who already are affiliated with the parties, and the way in which most of them refuse to look at things with as little bias as possible. I find that, overall, the Obama *campaign* has been far more hopeful and less negative than has been the McCain *campaign*, but that supporters of both stripes tend to be just as horrible on average.
Also, I wish people would do more than just recite talking points that align with their personal views. Personally, I will cast my ballot for Obama, but I can be satisfied if either candidate wins. On the one hand, you have a candidate who could prove a catalyst for change in health care, education funding, defense spending, foreign affairs, etc. On the other, you have a decorated war hero who has been in Washington long enough to know how to play the game.
Before anyone picks apart my comments on “change,” I do realize that preferences on spending are subjective. Also, I grew up surrounded by the military, and with deep reverence for it, but there’s no reason to spend six times the GDP of the country you’re fighting in to defeat a band of poorly-armed terrorists.
Also, Gen Petraeus has advocated sitting down and talking to enemies as well. So I’d be careful with that catch phrase.
Also, people who make less than $250k annually are not automatically too lazy to work for it. I work 60-80 hours each week as an accountant and make $35000. So please, show some respect.
I get a kick out of watching Obama bash McCain over and over during his rallies and then say, “but America wants to hear about issues, they don’t want to hear personal attacks!”
Every ad I see Obama run is negative, and since he is outspending McCain 3 to 1, that’s a lot of negative ads.
If you spent 4 years in school to become an accountant so you can make $8 an hour, you are either not very smart or just a really bad accountant. I pay the clerks in my convenience stores considerably more than that, and most of them can barely count. Do you need a job? Then again…
During the eight years of Clinton, none of my clerks made much more than minimum wage, because after the taxes there wasn’t much more left to pay them, additionally, unemployment was high in Wyoming and I had my choice of employees.. During the last eight, I haven’t paid anyone minimum wage and have been happy to provide my employees with good wages, although the unemployment rate has been very low and I haved to search a little harder to find help. While I miss having my pick of employees, I don’t want to go back to the old way. I’d rather provide good wages. Under Obama’s tax plan, that may not be possible.
durhamagyar
15 years ago
Note that I never said that Obama’s campaign was without negativity. Also note that I firmly stated that supporters of both sides are vicious, as evidenced clearly in the article featured in this post.
I do find it interesting that, of course, the first thing that was said about my wage was an insult to my intelligence and/or my abilities. This is the attitude that has most bothered me about the right. Mind you, on the left it’s the opposite, which I find just as appalling. No one’s worth or intelligence should be defined by his income. Nor should we make excuses for people whose work ethic leaves much to be desired. Some believe, though, that there are things worth more than money. Perhaps you think it’s foolish (and, while I’d beg to differ, that opinion is understandable), but my original point was that it’s far more foolish to make assumptions about people based on their relative wealth/poverty. Also, it makes you look tremendously smug about money.
As for the negativity in the media, it’s unfortunately not a matter of media bias, so much as the media whoring itself out for the almighty dollar. Each time the polls have changed, the media follows suit. Immediately leaving the conventions, McCain received more positive coverage than Obama, but as soon as Obama’s polling improved, it swung back in the opposite direction. I blame the 24-hour news media for editorialist pandering, but to fill 24 hours of news, they do what they can to make people watch. It’s deplorable, yes, but it’s more business than politics.
As for the unemployment rate, I’d be interested to know how your unemployment rate managed to be higher in the 1990s and lower in the 2000s, since the national averages did the opposite. And please don’t mistake that for sarcasm. I definitely feel that Clinton has been given more credit retrospectively than is due him, but the GDP, capital growth, new investments, unemployment–statistically–were higher under the Clinton administration than under the Bush administration. While the growth was untenable and the bubble didn’t burst purely on Bush’s account (despite what the far left preach), national trends did the opposite of what you’re describing.
And Obama’s “change” versus McCain’s “change” is purely a subjective matter. I have great respect, and numerous issues, with both candidates. I just wish everyone would be less rude about the whole event. This includes candidates, supporters, bloggers, celebrities who feel it their job to proselytize from the holy pulpit on high, editorial journalists, and the list goes on. No matter who wins, the world will not end. The US will not become socialist, nor will it become fascist, so long as the people stay informed and aware. It didn’t become forever socialist under FDR; it didn’t become irreparably fascist under George W Bush. Obama will not force us all to be gay Muslims any more than John McCain will strip everyone of their rights and propel us into 18.2 new wars. We will all be okay if we just stop yelling and let our votes speak for us.
Yes, I may have been too much the attack dog in my comments about your wage, but the point is still valid. We make our own choices in life. If you chose to work for a firm that doesn’t pay you a fair wage for your education, it doesn’t mean that because I chose to work for myself and make more that I should be responsible to pay more taxes so you can recieve refundable tax credits. I don’t think that making more money makes me smarter, it does, however, show that I have a history of better decision making.
As for the media following the polls, I think just the opposite is true. They supported McCain during the primaries because he was very liberal in contrast to his more conservative opponents, so they promoted him, gave him lots of airtime, and the polls shifted to reflect their position. When it moved to the general election campaign, McCain was no longer the medias favorite because Obama became the liberal horse in the race and compared to him, McCain looked like a right wing evangelist. When they threw their support, and airtime, behind Obama, the polls shifted to match.
As for the unemployment rate, according to the bureau of labor statistics, the average unemployment rate during the first 7 years of Clinton’s presidency was 5.37%. The average unemployment rate during the first 7 years of Bush’s presidency was 5.18%. Keep in mind that included more than a 1% spike during the year after the 9/11 attacks in 2001. Clinton had a very low eighth year and Bush will have a higher 8th year, but they will wash statistically and both will end up with almost identical average unemployment rates during their terms(about 5.2%), which is not what the main stream press leads us to believe. In Wyoming, which is where I am specifically referencing when I talk about my experiences, the average unemployment rate during Clinton’s term was 4.88% compared to a rate of 3.71% during Bush’s term to date.
I have no doubt that if 9/11 had been taken out of the picture, the national unemployment rates under Bush would have been considerably lower than under Clinton, instead of dead even. Where I live, regardless of the effect of 9/11, they WERE considerably lower, and the difference would have even been greater without the 9/11 effect.
Unemployment aside, during the Clinton years I was taxed at a higher rate and had less money left to pay wages. THAT is the ultimate effect of a liberal tax policy. Less jobs, less pay.
So, while you can attempt to justify your support of Obama by pointing out how mean McCain supporters are, you really need to open your eyes to the real issues. We have gotten mean because we are being attacked at every turn, and when we point out how truly divisive the “Great Uniter” really is, we are dismissed as racists, fascists, and criminals.
If it’s really about, as good old Joe Biden said, “A three letter word, JOBS,” then Obama isn’t my guy.
i have seen the left do and say some pretty awful things to people who admitted to being right leaning. i, personally have been called a racist and told to burn in hell. is that very nice, and that is for disagreeing with them that obama is the second coming of christ. i really believe that he will destroy this country, i really feel that way to many people are uninformed and sucked into his pretty words. are we happy with the direction that this country has been going? not so much, but its not as bad as china, or how russia used to be, we have a great country. why do so many people seem so intent on destroying it? this makes me sad for my kids, it makes me sad for my kids kids. if some of the crazier theories are to be believed then if obama is the false prophet, of the right hand of satan, and you believe the mayan calendar, then the world will end in 2012 anyway. who in the hell knows.
I was working in one of my stores a couple years ago, and and this granola looking lady walked in and looked around for minute then asked, “What state are we in?”
“Wyoming,” I answered.
“Oh my,” she said, “you’re the people that killed that beautiful boy!” referring to Matthew Shepard.
I’m pretty sure I didn’t have anything to do with what happened to Matthew Shepard nearly 200 miles away, but this is how the libs think. Because I live in a state where a young gay man was murdered years ago, she looked at me like I was a murderer myself. They are using the same rational for calling us right wingers “Nazis”, “Fascists”, “and “Racists”.
Yes, there is some racism in this country, and there will be votes cast both for and against Obama completely based on his race. But there will also be a lot of votes cast because of stupid reasons like,”he’s not old and he’s gonna change things,” as my mother-in-law so artfully said. The sad thing is most of these idiots don’t even know what they want changed.
If the change they want is a supreme court that will take away our individual gun rights, then they will get the change they want. If they want unlimited abortion for any reason, then they will get the change they want. If they want to punish this nation’s successfull small businessmen, and “share the wealth” with those who don’t want to work for it, then they will get the change they want.
If you don’t want these things, according to them you are no better than someone who denies the holocaust. Except, Obama wants to meet with the leaders of those countries without precondition doesn’t he?
I, personally, am a left-leaning moderate with conservative roots and a history of voting for both parties. I have always been, and will surely always be, registered unaffiliated. Part of the reason I would never be involved with one party or another is because of the people who already are affiliated with the parties, and the way in which most of them refuse to look at things with as little bias as possible. I find that, overall, the Obama *campaign* has been far more hopeful and less negative than has been the McCain *campaign*, but that supporters of both stripes tend to be just as horrible on average.
Also, I wish people would do more than just recite talking points that align with their personal views. Personally, I will cast my ballot for Obama, but I can be satisfied if either candidate wins. On the one hand, you have a candidate who could prove a catalyst for change in health care, education funding, defense spending, foreign affairs, etc. On the other, you have a decorated war hero who has been in Washington long enough to know how to play the game.
Before anyone picks apart my comments on “change,” I do realize that preferences on spending are subjective. Also, I grew up surrounded by the military, and with deep reverence for it, but there’s no reason to spend six times the GDP of the country you’re fighting in to defeat a band of poorly-armed terrorists.
Also, Gen Petraeus has advocated sitting down and talking to enemies as well. So I’d be careful with that catch phrase.
Also, people who make less than $250k annually are not automatically too lazy to work for it. I work 60-80 hours each week as an accountant and make $35000. So please, show some respect.
“I find that, overall, the Obama *campaign* has been far more hopeful and less negative than has been the McCain *campaign* “
Thanks durhamagyar for confirming that the media’s negative reporting on McCain has made such a big impression.
You need to ask yourself if Obama is the “change” America needs.
Everytime in the past that we have tried socialism our economy has gone from bad to worse.
Jimmy Carter’s failed presidency is the best example of what happens when you substitute vague slogans of “change” for proven experience.
So sad another suffering from S.D.S.S. (Sh!t don’t stink syndrome)
I get a kick out of watching Obama bash McCain over and over during his rallies and then say, “but America wants to hear about issues, they don’t want to hear personal attacks!”
Every ad I see Obama run is negative, and since he is outspending McCain 3 to 1, that’s a lot of negative ads.
@durhamagyar
If you spent 4 years in school to become an accountant so you can make $8 an hour, you are either not very smart or just a really bad accountant. I pay the clerks in my convenience stores considerably more than that, and most of them can barely count. Do you need a job? Then again…
During the eight years of Clinton, none of my clerks made much more than minimum wage, because after the taxes there wasn’t much more left to pay them, additionally, unemployment was high in Wyoming and I had my choice of employees.. During the last eight, I haven’t paid anyone minimum wage and have been happy to provide my employees with good wages, although the unemployment rate has been very low and I haved to search a little harder to find help. While I miss having my pick of employees, I don’t want to go back to the old way. I’d rather provide good wages. Under Obama’s tax plan, that may not be possible.
Note that I never said that Obama’s campaign was without negativity. Also note that I firmly stated that supporters of both sides are vicious, as evidenced clearly in the article featured in this post.
I do find it interesting that, of course, the first thing that was said about my wage was an insult to my intelligence and/or my abilities. This is the attitude that has most bothered me about the right. Mind you, on the left it’s the opposite, which I find just as appalling. No one’s worth or intelligence should be defined by his income. Nor should we make excuses for people whose work ethic leaves much to be desired. Some believe, though, that there are things worth more than money. Perhaps you think it’s foolish (and, while I’d beg to differ, that opinion is understandable), but my original point was that it’s far more foolish to make assumptions about people based on their relative wealth/poverty. Also, it makes you look tremendously smug about money.
As for the negativity in the media, it’s unfortunately not a matter of media bias, so much as the media whoring itself out for the almighty dollar. Each time the polls have changed, the media follows suit. Immediately leaving the conventions, McCain received more positive coverage than Obama, but as soon as Obama’s polling improved, it swung back in the opposite direction. I blame the 24-hour news media for editorialist pandering, but to fill 24 hours of news, they do what they can to make people watch. It’s deplorable, yes, but it’s more business than politics.
As for the unemployment rate, I’d be interested to know how your unemployment rate managed to be higher in the 1990s and lower in the 2000s, since the national averages did the opposite. And please don’t mistake that for sarcasm. I definitely feel that Clinton has been given more credit retrospectively than is due him, but the GDP, capital growth, new investments, unemployment–statistically–were higher under the Clinton administration than under the Bush administration. While the growth was untenable and the bubble didn’t burst purely on Bush’s account (despite what the far left preach), national trends did the opposite of what you’re describing.
And Obama’s “change” versus McCain’s “change” is purely a subjective matter. I have great respect, and numerous issues, with both candidates. I just wish everyone would be less rude about the whole event. This includes candidates, supporters, bloggers, celebrities who feel it their job to proselytize from the holy pulpit on high, editorial journalists, and the list goes on. No matter who wins, the world will not end. The US will not become socialist, nor will it become fascist, so long as the people stay informed and aware. It didn’t become forever socialist under FDR; it didn’t become irreparably fascist under George W Bush. Obama will not force us all to be gay Muslims any more than John McCain will strip everyone of their rights and propel us into 18.2 new wars. We will all be okay if we just stop yelling and let our votes speak for us.
@durhamagyar
Yes, I may have been too much the attack dog in my comments about your wage, but the point is still valid. We make our own choices in life. If you chose to work for a firm that doesn’t pay you a fair wage for your education, it doesn’t mean that because I chose to work for myself and make more that I should be responsible to pay more taxes so you can recieve refundable tax credits. I don’t think that making more money makes me smarter, it does, however, show that I have a history of better decision making.
As for the media following the polls, I think just the opposite is true. They supported McCain during the primaries because he was very liberal in contrast to his more conservative opponents, so they promoted him, gave him lots of airtime, and the polls shifted to reflect their position. When it moved to the general election campaign, McCain was no longer the medias favorite because Obama became the liberal horse in the race and compared to him, McCain looked like a right wing evangelist. When they threw their support, and airtime, behind Obama, the polls shifted to match.
As for the unemployment rate, according to the bureau of labor statistics, the average unemployment rate during the first 7 years of Clinton’s presidency was 5.37%. The average unemployment rate during the first 7 years of Bush’s presidency was 5.18%. Keep in mind that included more than a 1% spike during the year after the 9/11 attacks in 2001. Clinton had a very low eighth year and Bush will have a higher 8th year, but they will wash statistically and both will end up with almost identical average unemployment rates during their terms(about 5.2%), which is not what the main stream press leads us to believe. In Wyoming, which is where I am specifically referencing when I talk about my experiences, the average unemployment rate during Clinton’s term was 4.88% compared to a rate of 3.71% during Bush’s term to date.
I have no doubt that if 9/11 had been taken out of the picture, the national unemployment rates under Bush would have been considerably lower than under Clinton, instead of dead even. Where I live, regardless of the effect of 9/11, they WERE considerably lower, and the difference would have even been greater without the 9/11 effect.
Unemployment aside, during the Clinton years I was taxed at a higher rate and had less money left to pay wages. THAT is the ultimate effect of a liberal tax policy. Less jobs, less pay.
So, while you can attempt to justify your support of Obama by pointing out how mean McCain supporters are, you really need to open your eyes to the real issues. We have gotten mean because we are being attacked at every turn, and when we point out how truly divisive the “Great Uniter” really is, we are dismissed as racists, fascists, and criminals.
If it’s really about, as good old Joe Biden said, “A three letter word, JOBS,” then Obama isn’t my guy.