It’s been 20 years since Maxine Waters coined (or at least popularized) the phrase “No Justice No Peace”. The time was after the LA Riots in 1992 when the freshman Congresswoman from Los Angeles was defending looters as simply “women who wanted shoes for their children and bread”. Of the violence that eventually claimed the lives of 53 people, Waters said: “The anger that you see expressed out there in Los Angeles, in my district this evening, is a righteous anger, and it’s difficult for me to say to the people, ‘Don’t be angry.’” She even went on use the threat of further violence around the country to try and extort action of some sort out of the White House. “Many other cities could go the way that Los Angeles went last night unless the president is willing to step in and take some strong action in terms of letting people know that he cares about this issue.” The White House listened and indeed a new trial was brought about, double jeopardy be damned. This time two of the officers were convicted. Finally some justice! For those Constitutional sticklers out there… The argument was that double jeopardy didn’t really apply as the four were charged with civil rights violations the second time rather than assault and excessive force, so, no problem at all.
So now here we are, two decades later and again race and crime intersect to put American cities on edge. “Justice for Trayvon” has been the ubiquitous call for much of the last year. This is easily one of the most high profile – and consequently political – trials in decades. The original prosecutor declined to press charges, believing there was not sufficient evidence for conviction. Enter race pimps Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson and judicial frivolity ensued.
While one’s heart has to go out to the parents of Trayvon as their grief and sadness is very real and they have comported themselves with dignity in the most trying circumstances a parent will likely ever face, the “Justice for Trayvon” signs across the country have little to do with what went on that fateful night last year or what went on in that Sanford courtroom over the last month.
But then that doesn’t really matter because in America of 2013 the only thing that does matter is satiating the demands of raucous mobs or favored demographic groups. Just on cue, now that the verdict is in the demands for federal civil rights charges have already started. Prior to the verdict, as the Miami and Sanford police departments prepared to deal with the consequences of a potential not guilty verdict, one couldn’t help but wonder how we had arrived here in the first place.
I remember watching the OJ trial and verdict as it was read aloud. To say I was dumbfounded is an understatement. More stupefying however was the scene from a college student union filled with black students who erupted into joyous pandemonium when the verdict was read. How was it even possible that anyone could cheer a ruthless murderer getting off, just because of his skin color?
One has to wonder how did race affinity ever come to replace common sense, or self preservation among so many people? The perfect example of the latter is the movement in New York City to ban “Stop and Frisk”. Stop and Frisk has been a tremendous success in helping to drive down and keep down crime rates in crime ridden neighborhoods of the city. Nonetheless, many blacks have objected to the policy because blacks are disproportionately stopped. Perhaps, but those neighborhoods have a disproportionate number of blacks and black lives are disproportionately saved as well. And the neighborhoods in which many of those black citizens live are safer than they might be without Stop and Frisk. Safer neighborhoods help with jobs, schools and quality of life. But let’s get rid of it, regardless of the lives saved or improved.
Just as knee jerk white racism a half a century ago was irrational and ignorant, so too is the knee jerk black racism of today. The difference is, the black racism of today is part of the liberal & media fiction that the state of black America is the result of white racism. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Blacks may indeed be victims, but they are largely the victims of other blacks, not whites. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics points out – via Walter Williams – that between 1976 and 2011 279,000 blacks were murdered in the United States, 94%, or 262,000 of them, by fellow blacks. That compares to a 3,446 blacks being lynched by whites in the 86 years between 1882 and 1968!
This irrational focus on the relatively insignificant (not to be confused with nonexistent) white racism at the expense of a focus on the far greater danger to members of the black community, the black predators preying on them, is an extraordinarily expensive mistake. By focusing on the mirage of widespread white racism, many blacks cease to address the dangers and issues within their own communities, with devastating consequences. It has led to over a quarter of a million dead young black men over the last four decades. Perhaps even more damaging more is the fact that tens of millions of black Americans live in poverty, 45% of black teens cannot find a job and over 75% of black children are born out of wedlock.
If the so called black leaders of today were really concerned with the state of black America, and young men like Trayvon while they are still alive, they would put down their “No Justice No Peace” posters and turn their focus on saving black America from itself. Stop supporting murders like OJ Simpson and Mumia Abu-Jamal and start honoring men like Herman Cain, Dr. Ben Carson, McDonalds CEO Donald Thompson, American Express CEO Ken Chenault and US Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, all of whom chose to build successful lives for themselves rather than bleat about the oppressive nature of a majority white society.
Instead of clamoring for never ending government programs, special dispensation in jobs and college admissions or seeing every crime or political issue through race tinted glasses, they should instead focus on reducing unwed and teen pregnancies, demanding quality education for their children and seeking relief from government regulations in order to make black communities compelling places for businesses to invest.
Don’t hold your breath however, because leadership in solving real problems is much harder work than just picking up the racism flag and waving it about so that people pay attention to you and call you a “black leader”. The civil rights movement helped destroy the scourge of white racism that had constrained the lives of blacks in America for centuries. One wonders what it will take, or how many more dead young black men it will take to remove the shackles of black racism that keep so many black Americans from enjoying the fruits of liberty that that people like Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, Rosa Parks and Medgar Evers fought so hard to give them access to?
See author page
@retire05: #99
YES YES YES DAMMIT YES!
Petercat
101
and me?
Petercat
here’s one idea for the mace,
for what it’s worth,
a hose and a spray musell which has a countainer, [like the spray for fertilizer]
put the mist and mace, and leave it at hand, it will spray at distance quite far.
bye
BENJAMIN CARSON
A THIRD DEGREE MURDER WOULD HAVE GIVE HIM 30 YEARS IN PRISON,
WHY DO YOU WANT TO GIVE HIM EVEN ONE YEAR WHICH IS 30 YEARS FOR A 17 TEEN,HE WAS INNOCENT, HIS LIFE WAS THREATEN, HE MADE THE DECISION WHICH WAS VERY DANGEROUSLY LATE TO SAVE HIS LIFE, HE COULD NOT GET AWAY FROM IT, SO
@Petercat:
If certain people in this country have their way, it may not stay like that. They’d rather have them on handouts in order to secure their votes possibly destroying their work ethic. A lot of Mexicans I used to work with were proud of their work ethic so hopefully it won’t come to pass.
@Tom:
Well we come down to it obviously – should government set wages or should the wages be what people are willing to pay. If a “living wage” for a job is above market clearing rates those jobs will disappear or go underground.
And as I said – government sets a wage above what robots can do the work for and robots will have the jobs.
You know Foxcon in China? Lots of bad publicity about their labor practices. So are they improving those practices? Nope. Robots. If robots can compete with Chinese labor it is all over for most Americans. Forcing a “living wage” just accelerates that.
You see – what you need to make it possible for the government to control the economy is enforcers. Lots of enforcers. That is called in more common terms a police state. Now why “liberals” want a police state is beyond me. But that is the effect of their policies.
Since I’m against enforcers I don’t want the government to dictate much of anything except what is required to keep the peace.
@retire05:
How about this: if it is not listed in one of the 18 enumerated powers granted to the federal government by the Constitution, it is left to the states and to the people, by their vote?
I note the lack of a Drug Prohibition Amendment.
@another vet:
There was a book with that theme. “Child of Fortune” by Norman Spinrad. Read it if you can find a copy.
And for those who want to figure out what I am replying to click on “another vet” which will take you back.
@Petercat: 96
@Another Vet 97
Intriguing thoughts, if a little extreme and harsh. I would love to hear more. My initial thoughts: we, as a nation, have spent a trillion dollars on the war on drugs. What about saving a fortune eliminating the pointless costs associated with it, including costly and destructive prison time for non-violent offenders, and taking a mere fraction of that expense offering free drug rehabilitation for anyone who requires it? And I’m not talking about giving addicts their methadone every week, I mean the real deal. It won’t work every time, but addicts cost the American tax payer regardless.
@M. Simon:
I wonder if we’re getting off topic here, but I think it’s clear history would paint a grim picture of this notion, and of it’s long-term economic viability as a national principle. We had unfettered capitalism in the 19th century: appalling, unsafe working conditions, no minimum wage, no overtime or limits on hours worked per week, no child labor laws, no workers comp in the event of an injury, no health insurance, no recourse for work-related injury. I think there is plenty of room to argue about government’s involvement in the market place, but the markets alone will never regulate the impact on labor/workers in quite the harmonious manner you imply, unless the point is that it’s irrelevant whether we live in a county full of miserable, disposable people working like slaves for a small elite. We were just previously discussing the reality of people willing to risk their lives to cross an armed border and illegally work themselves practically to death in America because they have no other recourse, and no government protection. Is that what anyone really wants to return to?
@Tom: #108
I would agree with that, as it fits my philosophy for my own efforts:
A hand up, yes.
A handout, no.
As long as
themy money is spent helping people to improve themselves, I’m okay with it.What would you think of letting private agencies have control of the process? Historically, they seem to be more effective as well as more efficient.
As long as we don’t limit who can be a part of the process for PC reasons.
@Petercat:
I would need to know more about the plan, but I think i agree with you that that’s the way to go. Private rehabs, I’m guessing, do the best job now. No need to reinvent the wheel. This might be a good candidate for a voucher system. Minimal bureaucracy and payments made to private agencies that are effective.
@Tom: #109
Anybody who is in favor of returning to those conditions is truly a monster. It is hard to draw a line and say “This much, but no further” because there will always be situations that don’t fit on a nice, clean line. What most of us object to is the government taking far too much control of our lives in an effort to not let the tiniest injustice escape their control. In an effort to prevent all crime, and capture all wrongdoers, we have ended up with the 1984-ish surveillance state that we have now. Too many infringements on our freedoms and on our wallets have begun with the phrase, “If it saves one life”…
I swear, if I knew who’s life they were talking about, I’d shoot the troublemaking SOB myself and go to my execution, if I could be certain that the rest of my fellow citizens would regain their freedoms with my act!
I believe that we could not just survive, but thrive with a lot less government intrusion and a lot more personal responsibility / personal risk.
@Tom: #111
One of the reasons that I like to assist others personally is that I get to know them, and am better able to provide whatever I can tailored to their specific needs.
I think that is why private enterprises are more effective than government, they have a closer relationship with their clients, and the people making the rules are closer to the problem and can tailor their works to more closely fit the needs of those clients.
Not looking for perfection, just for better-than-we-have-now.
Tom, I’m going to bed now. I’ll be back later to continue this enjoyable discussion, or we’ll meet later on another topic. Sleep well, friend.
@Petercat: 112
You have articulated your position very well, and it appears to me to be an honorable position. I can’t promise I will agree with you down the line, but you have my ear because of the manner in which you express yourself. I enjoy having my thinking challenged, and this has been an interesting conversation, with people such as yourself, Aqua, AV and Mr.Simon providing stimulating and challenging questions and thoughts.
@Petercat: 114
Likewise!
Some emotional debate going on here. Whilst I can understand why people are looking for the wider issues here – like why too many young black men die violent deaths – I haven’t seen quite the same focus on why Zimmerman came to be doing what he was doing. If he was “defending his community” then he appears to have been doing it in a reckless manner which was endangering himself and clearly others. How do we tackle Zimmerman’s problems?
@retire05:
You will note I also said: “While basic crop-tending robots would be much easier to implement, harvesting robots are still a long way off and early models will likely be much more expensive then hiring human workers, due to the complexity required to manufacture them. It will be quite a while yet before agricultural field robots reach the state of the art level as R2D2 and C3PO.”
The robots you provided the link to are crop tending robots, not harvesting robots. There have been engineers working on the development of agricultural automation for many decades now. The robots that Jorge Heraud and Lee Redden are working on are highly specialized, being developed towards specific plants. There is quite a bit of development and experimentation on development, yet so far I have been unable to find anyone manufacturing and selling these robots. Perhaps we will see some on the market soon, perhaps it may be a few more years from now.
Not at all faster than I can imagine. Speak for yourself Retire05.
You recognize that our grandfather’s could have worked for a company for 40 years. These workers were clearly loyal to their employers and were treated well by their companies for that loyalty. That is a rarity now, as many businesses lay off older workers to get younger cheaper workers. Many of our grandfathers were earning a higher relative wage than similar workers of today. It was generally accepted that their own responsibility to prepare for their retirement, although some received pensions. What is also true is that the corporate officers salaries were a much lower multiple of their workers wages than is true today.
And here we get to the crux of your complaint in your Scrooge like disdain for workers. Using the Unions as an excuse is not good enough cover for your distaste: The union membership rate for private-sector workers (6.6 percent) is substantially lower than the rate for public-sector workers (35.9 percent), and Union membership is on the decline. Certain Republicans and Conservatives need to stop being so damn hostile and snotty towards the working classes. The GOP used to be able to count on the electoral support of working lower and middle class Americans, but the progressive capitalists within the party have been waging policy wars to favor their corporate crony pals, leaving the working classes with little choice but to hold their nose and vote Democrat to be represented. Stop driving good people away from the party you nit-wits! Do you really think all these free trade agreements were to help American workers? NO! It was crony capitalist payback for the contributors and progressive backers of the establishment wing of the GOP.
You may not understand or accept this Retire, but there are Republican workers, and some of them belong to unions. The free trade agreements that progressive establishment Republicans, Libertarians and some Democrats have supported, are part of the reason why America has been transforming from an industrial marvel to a “service economy.” Lots of Republican workers have lost their non-union jobs thanks to the moving of their companies overseas, and have had to take lower paying jobs to survive. Whole communities died when these factories left. So don’t just blame this on just the unions. I’m frankly sick and tired of hearing all the anti-union establishment Republican talking point BS. If the companies didn’t want to deal anymore with the unions, they could have relocated to “Right to work” states.
@retire05:
After the Reagan/broceros (sp?) issue in CA and later the grape and lettuce strikes by workers many farmers went the harvesting ”robot” route.
It isn’t a robot in the sense that it looks like a man however.
It always looks more like a harvester, like a wheat/oat harvester.
BUT it is specialized.
As your article notes there are specific ”leafy greens” harvesters that replace all human pickers.
But there are also machines that can harvest root crops like garlic and sugar beets!
Wet crops like rice have their own specialized harvester that replaces hard human labor.
There’s a grape (for wine only) harvester.
There’s a tomato harvester, a potato harvester, and others.
People in unions, like at the Ports, keep American work in the dark ages.
Just as Port workers insist all paperwork be done in longhand and not computerized, so, too, organized farm labor do their best to keep farmers, even argra-businesses from using specialized harvesting equipment.
Crops harvested by machines are cheaper at the store than man-harvested crops, too.
@Ditto:
The very same thing was said about the farm tractor when it was introduced. Too expensive, can’t do the job of humans, yada, yada, yada. Those people were wrong. So are you.
.
Had nothing to do with “loyalty.” Many in that generation never left the neighborhoods they were born in. They were born, grew up, went to work and died in the same neighborhood their entire lives. Except for four years of fighting in foreign wars, they lived, and died in the same area. But that is no longer true. Where do you think the term “upwardly mobile” came from?
I don’t have disdain for workers. I have disdain for unions, especially the one I was associated with for decades (the CWA). Unions have become nothing more than an arm of the DNC. I have watched as workers who should have been fired have their jobs protected by the union. Do you really think the union officials are worth what they are paid?
Richard Trumka – AFL/CIO – $302,000/yr
Fire Fighters Union Pres. – $328,500/yr
Edwin Hill – IBEW – $380,688/yr
and then there is Franklin Hurt, president of BCTWGW, the union that refused to negotiate with Hostess Bakeries and watched as 18,000 workers lost their jobs while he continued to draw his $315,229.00 annual salary. He should be jailed for such malfeasance.
You seem to want to blame the off-shoring of our jobs on Republicans. I suggest you do a little research on the U.S. textile mills and see who was responsible for them shutting down. How many tens of thousands of jobs were lost when Bubba Clinton cut a deal with China? And when the mills shut down, and went to China, the garment workers lost their jobs which also went to China. Last time I checked, Bill Clinton had a (D) behind his name.
And many are doing exactly that. Why? Because the cost of living is cheaper in right-to-work states. Toyota is a prime example. They moved their Tundra plant to San Antonio. Texas is a RTW state. Did the company benefit? Hell, yes, but so did the workers. Cheaper cost of living and no state or city income taxes withheld from their paychecks. $20/hr (the starting salary at the Tundra SA plant) gave the workers more disposable income than $25/hr in California.
Unions once had a place in this country. But you want to ignore that a Democrat, FDR, managed to start their decline when he signed labor laws into effect. If the government is going to hold companies to safety standards, and work standards such as hours, etc., why do you need a union? Simple fact, you don’t. Unions are obsolete, and have priced themselves out of the market. Perhaps they should pay their management less?
Society does best when it functions on meritocracy, not entitlement. It’s how you separate the wheat from the weeds.
@Tom:
There is needs to be multi-pronged approach to dealing with this. #21 supports the idea that drug rehab may help to reduce the problem.
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Prisons_and_Drugs#sthash.6lSQMDcO.dpbs
However, drug use is also not as victimless of a crime as some lead us to believe. Grant it, it’s a tad dated (2004), but 16-18% of those incarcerated committed their crimes to obtain money for drugs. Then of course there are other crimes committed while under the influence as well.
http://www.cdc.gov/idu/facts/cj-structure.pdf
I’ve always believed in the concept that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. The people we need to really focus on are the young ones. Once people become set in their ways, it’s hard to change them. Overall, crimes related to drug use increased from 2000-2010. Notice that they decreased for those under 18. That is the age group that needs to be targeted the most for prevention. It’ll take a while for the results to manifest themselves because the concept that drugs are bad will take itself awhile to work its way through subsequent generations.
http://www.bjs.gov/content/dcf/duc.cfm
As to Petercat’s concept in 96, I believe that is one tool in dealing with the issue. Legally, those drugs being taken are very cheap.
@Nan G:
Technology will eventually replace the need for hundreds of thousands of farm workers. Crops are currently being planted, hoed and harvested by machines, not humans. And while the left cries how we need to legalize millions of illegals because they pick our peaches and tomatoes, nothing could be farther from the truth. What we are going to get is millions of illegals who have been mechanized out of jobs and then what?
In the meantime, unions will price themselves out of the market, destroy industry and be left holding the bag because they think they can apply so much pressure on businesses they will get what they want. They were wrong about Hostess Bakeries and they will prove to be wrong about other businesses.
@retire05:
Goes to the heart of my argument as to why slavery wasn’t going to last in this country.
@Tom:
I’ll agree with that. I’m sure we have differing opinions as to why. And just a side note, bleeding hearts is not just for liberals. Conservatives feel for the poor and downtrodden, it is only in the way we would like to help that differs. But I will stick with your example and leave politics out of it.
There are still companies out there that want workers to be with them for life. I work for one. Granted, it isn’t a huge corporate conglomerate, but a company nonetheless. I make a decent wage, but I also worry that a major change in the economy or even my particular field of technology could see me lose everything. I feel I’m well leveraged to make changes, but nothing in the world is guaranteed.
Another point concerning people working for the same company for life…..employees are no longer as loyal as that generation. I see people leave all the time. Reasons differ, but a lot of it has to do with the bigger, better deal (credit Valley Girl BBD). Employees get an offer to move for more money, better benefits, and the company eventually folds. Not always, but more times than not. An established company will work to pay employees what they can and still remain in business. There may be some big conspiracy out there to pay people a little as possible, but companies that do that generally go out of business. There are so many opportunities to develop skills and education for free that no one should remain in a minimum wage job for long.
That’s about as far as I can go without getting political. I still think we’re the greatest country on Earth for many reasons. The greatest reason being the opportunities that exist.
@Aqua:
The problem is that you can’t keep politics out of the debate because the lines by Democrats have been drawn. The truth of the matter is that a good worker, who provides his/her employers with 8 hours work for 8 hours pay, and who takes pride in what they do, is always more valuable than the slacker who keeps their job only because they are forced to pay union dues.
If a worker is unsatisfied with their job/earnings they have options. They can increase their education via community colleges, or getting a GED, they can take an entry level position, show they are a reliable worker and train for a job with better pay, the possibilities are endless. They can relocate. UHaul trucks are relatively cheap.
Modern technology in the farm industry will be the thing of the [near] future. Big profits for those who design the modern technology, big profits for those who build the machines and big profits for the farm industry. Manual labor jobs lost to manufacturing jobs gained. And to claim that technology is just too far in the future is not to know what is happening now.
the farmers are target by the multiple agency to extract money from them by
accusation of not following their law and money demand for punishment,
all that approved by GOVERNMENT CORRUPT ELECTED, TO GARNER THEIR POCKETS, THAT’S WHY THEY SIGN SO MANY LAWS SO YOU ARE SURE TO BREAK ONE OF THOSE,
and the stand your ground laws is in the way to be alter, so to benefit the blacks doing crime
on white people,
@Tom: #115
Most of my friends, as well as most of the people that I respect, are nothing like me. I learn more swimming in the ocean than I would living in an echo chamber.
Knowing intelligent people who disagree with me prevents me from becoming dogmatic.
And a life surrounded by only those who agree would be rather boring, wouldn’t it?
@another vet: #121
“but 16-18% of those incarcerated committed their crimes to obtain money for drugs.”
At least, if drugs were legalized, and became cheaper, that particular crime rate would drop, because users would need to steal less to support their desires. If they were freely distributed under controlled circumstances, the other related crimes might drop as well.
With the side benefit of decreasing Federal presence in our lives, shrinking the bureaucracy, and lessening enforcement costs to the taxpayer.
Let’s try it and find out.
Who is Antonio West? You probably don’t know, because he was white. Antonio West was only a few months old when he was shot in the face, in his stroller, in front of his mother by two black youths.
Where are the protests and t-shirts for Antonio?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/22/antonio-santiago-west-dead-georgia-baby-killed_n_2931273.html
@retire05: #122
Technologically, we are already there. If we can build a robot pack mule that can walk and run on uneven, traction-poor terrain, we can build a robot with the dexterity and processing power to pick a variety of fruit to suit the needs of the growers.
The economics, however, still aren’t viable. I look for tests soon that, as with million-dollar combines in the midwest, will allow fruit growers to pool their resources to buy or lease robots that they can all use, versatile enough to harvest different produce in different seasons. When the commercially-available AI, discrimination, and dexterity reach that economic point, it becomes a done deal.
We’re close, we’re just not there yet.
There are already discussions in the transportation industry of autonomous tractor-trailers that can pick up a trailer at one location, back into a dock and load at another, travel across country stopping for fuel on the way, back up to another dock to unload, and then drop the trailer at yet another location.
The loading and unloading would, of course, be done by robots as well.
Again, the technology is here, but the costs and liability concerns prevent it. For now…
Linda H.
YES I SAW THE NEWS AND IT’S PART OF OUR EXPOSING THE YOUNG BLACKS WHO KILL ANYONE AND DON’T HAVE ANY SOUL, THEY ARE DESENSITIZE, NO FEELING NO COMPASSION NO REMORSE JUST KILL MACHINES, THEY ARE THE GANGSTA OF THIS NATION, WHO ARE GIVEN A PASS,
AND ULTIMATELY GET KILL IN A DARK ALLEY NEVER TO BE FOUND,
WE ARE SO SAD FOR THAT ONE ON A BABY,
THEY WON’T GET AWAY WITH IT FOR LONG THEY HAVE EVEN THE DEVIL TO CAPTURE THEM
AND TORMENT THEM IN THE FIRE FOREVER,
@Petercat: The government will always be involved no matter what the solution. If drugs get legalized, the government would have to regulate it. Then the government would have to tax it. Then the government would have add additional IRS agents to regulate it and collect the taxes. There would probably be less government involvement than now, but it won’t go away completely.
@Petercat: We better watch out. Remember the plot line from the “Terminator” movies. : )
@solarman: #117
I must be missing something here. How did Zimmerman come to be doing what he was doing? Seems as if he lives in a gated community that was having lots of problems with break-ins and burglaries and he had called the police many times, but the crimes were continuing. He got the HOA to meet and start a Neighborhood Watch to make his neighborhood a safer place to live. In fulfilling his obligations, whenever he saw suspicious activities, he called the police. On this particular day, in the dark and rain, he saw a person in a hoodie walking on a neighbors lawn, apparently looking in windows. He called the police and stayed on the line while they were sending a police officer. He attempted to keep the person in sight until the police got there. The thug jumped him and attempted to kill him. Unfortunately for the thug, he jumped the wrong person and ended in his death. Exactly which part of what he did would anyone find fault with? Well, perhaps other than his family, because he was putting himself in harm’s way to help protect his neighbors while somewhat endangering himself. I think persons such as he should be thanked rather than pilloried. What would you have done differently?
@another vet: #133
Maybe you can tell me:
Who has the motto “Forever Vigilant” or “Ever Vigilant”?
A Google search turns up the city of Manchester, England, but that’s not where I heard it.
It’s on the tip of my brain, but I just can’t remember.
I like it better than that overused (by people who really haven’t thought it out) “Molon Labe”.
Less confrontation, more warning and resolve.
And my answer to the famous “Who will watch the watchers?” is:
We the people.
@Petercat:
“Forever Vigilant” is the motto for the 188th Air Defense Artillery. I don’t know if they are a unit anymore. “Ever Vigilant” is the motto for the 18th MP Brigade. I had some interaction with them on OIF 1. They support V Corps in Germany (as did my unit). I pity them for having to support V Corps, but that’s a whole other issue. I could have sworn I saw the motto “Forever Vigilant” somewhere else as well.
http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/UniformedServices/mottos.aspx
@Petercat:
I like to see the humor in some things, and this seems to be one of those. I did a little research and found that the top reasons for incarceration are: 12% for violation of parole/probation, ah, so we just do away with parole/probation conditions, no one could then violate them and those 12% wouldn’t be in prison. Then 8% are in for Drugs. you’ve already solved that one. Make all drugs/alcohol legal for everyone, and if they can’t afford them, issue food stamps/Wic Cards so they can get them free. Then, 6% are in prison for Robbery. Easy solution there, if someone needs money that will cause them to Rob someone, just give them a handout for the amount they expect to get in the Robbery. That was easy to solve. Then 4% are in for Murder, there is no easy answer for this one. Maybe the person actually deserves to be murdered, so I guess if you are thinking of killing someone, you should have to submit their name to a committee and let them decide if they should just be legally killed, saving someone from having to spend time in prison for killing a worthless human. I guess if you submit a name for consideration and the committee rejects it, then the person that submitted the name should have to be terminated as being worthless for thinking someone else was worthless. Then 4% for Burglary, just handle that same as Robbery. I realize I’m not a liberal and my approach along the lines above would tend to put me in that class, so I think the best way to avoid conflict is just have BHO sign an Executive Order covering these situations. I hope you have a sense of humor.
@retire05:
There are plenty of republicans drawing lines too. I’ve said it before, I have no desire to be ruled by the left or the right.
I don’t disagree with any of the rest of your post.
Earlier you posted about the enumerated powers. I completely agree. Turn everything else over to the States. Then we will have our republic back, but not until then.
@Redteam #135
I don’t quite see how you apply the negative “thug” to one party in this event and not the other. What information, other than the testimony of Zimmerman, makes you believe Martin was more of a thug than Zimmerman? Martin had an altercation with an armed man and died having not been charged with any offence. Why do you not also classify Zimmerman as a thug if as reported he was charged with resisting an officer with violence in 2005 – finally resulting in him entering an alcohol education program- and having a restraining order from his ex fiancé?
You say that Martin tried to kill Zimmerman. We have no evidence other than Zimmerman’s that this is true. I can well believe that Martin was angry enough to injure Zimmerman and that Zimmerman then feared for his life. Just because Zimmerman feared for his life doesn’t mean he was going to die if he didn’t shoot Martin. If I believe press reports Martin had been in fights before. However I don’t recall him being charged with killing anyone during those fights.
I don’t see Zimmerman’s behaviour as quite as public spirited or worthy as you appear to do. Zimmerman was packing a concealed weapon (legally held I understand). It isn’t particularly brave to hide behind the protection of a gun when following someone who turns out to be unarmed and has not committed any offence.
What would I have done differently? I don’t know as I could never imagine following someone with a hidden gun in my posession so maybe I would have been beaten up – or maybe I would have been strong enough to escape from the clutches of an angry 19 year old until help arrived. It seems to me that Zimmerman was totally unprepared for what might arise. He was “protecting” an area he was clearly unfamiliar with as he didn’t even know where he was when asked on the telephone. He is clearly not a professionally trained police officer and it showed that he had not prepared for different outcomes. A loose canon in my view.
If he had operated without a gun then I maybe would have some respect for him in his good citizen approach. He took stupid risks backed up by the misleading protection of a handgun.
solarman
if he had operate without a gun you say you would have respect for him,
but you would have respect for a dead man,
why should he die, after being savagely attack,
did you see his head and a broken nose?
oh that’s nothing is in it?
you went far to find a reason for him to die,
was he suppose to be a perfect person and take the blow to his head because of his past?
@retire05:
Did I say that robots wouldn’t or shouldn’t replace human farm workers? No I did not. What I said is that we are not quite there yet. We’re getting close, but so far agricultural robotics is limited to rather specialized units on a very small scale. We will certainly get there, but it will be a few years until the agricultural industry is convinced enough of the cost effectiveness, durability and reliability of robots before the whole corporate agricultural industry will replace their migrant human workers and human controlled farm equipment with robots. Those who mainly grow the same crops year after year will be the first to jump on the bandwagon, those who rotate crops will need more versatile robots that can be reconfigured.
Wrong. In many industrialists respect and loyalty was a two way street. There were quite a few employers who treated their workers well and with respect and who were rewarded with respect and loyalty. Carnegie, Mellon, Morgan, Rockefeller, and Ford were benevolent corporate industrialists who cared for their workers and encouraged pride and good will between management and labor. They recognized that prosperity should also flow downhill, because workers are also customers. These businessmen usually preferred to promote loyal capable employees to higher positions rather than hire unknown and unproven managers/executives from outside (who might also be spies of the competition.) That is the meaning of a “company man.” Some families had generations of factory workers who were proud to work for such good hearted employers. This is what created the pinnacle of the “American Dream” by the 1950’s.
In fact unions, which you hate so much, found it near impossible to convince workers to unionize these corporate giants, because their managements treated the workers well. It was the “Potter” type of harsh scrooge like industrialists where unions took hold and prospered.
I suggest you do your history a little better Retiree. Yes, Bill Clinton signed the GATT & NAFTA bills, but these were written by progressive establishment Republicans and passed with mostly Republican support. While I in no means support the socialist leadership of today’s unions nor the organized crime connected leaders of yesteryear, I am not so foolish as to think that all union workers are socialists, lazy or criminals. What is clear to me Retire , is that you have a very jaded opinion of workers and I consider that very unfortunate. Sad really, as a good many of them, (union or not,) are conservatives, are registered Republican, and love this nation.
Ditto
to stay on the subject of the farmer using new products to improve their crops,
I ran into a new revelation which is very important.
BEES ARE DYING, AND WE ARE KILLING THEM,
THE ALL NEW PRODUCT TO COVER THE PLANTS SO TO PROTECT THEM FROM INSECT IS KILLING THE BEES, THAT PRODUCT WHERE SOME OF IT IS FLYING IN THE AIR AND AWAY,
IS RESPONSIBLE IT HAS BEEN TARGET SPECIALLY BECAUSE OF A NEW AGENT IS USE IN IT AND THEY FOUND IT TO BE KILLING THE BEES,
IT WAS MENTIONNED THE BEES ARE DISAPEARING IN MASSES, BECAUSE OF IT,
THAT NEWS WAS IN A NEWS PAPER IN CANADA, JUST LATELY,
I’LL TRY TO FIND THE PAPER TO HAVE THE NAME OF THAT NEW PRODUCT.
BYE
@ilovebeeswarzone:
I am very concerned with the situation regarding the decline in bee populations. This is one avenue of scientific research that really needs increased examination. I’m not a biologist, but I wonder if it might be due to the current pesticides or perhaps of Monsanto’s genetic crop alterations. This is a much more serious environmental issue than the consensus-based sideshow of AGW.
Ditto
you are absolutely right,
IT TOOK ME A FEW MINUTES BUT I found the paper, I’m a collector of newspaper I CLIPP SOME OF INTEREST, BUT i DON’T FILE IT, SO WHEN I WANT ONE IT MEAN WORK TO FIND IT,
here it some of the main read: THE SIERRA CLUB OF CANADA WHERE FOUND TRUTHFULL IN FIDING THAT new class of pesticides rank among the KINGS OF BEE KILLERS,
NEONICOTINOIDS THE chimical linked by SCIENTISTS to the alarming increase in BEES DEATHS
SPECIALLY IN ONTARIO AND QUEBEC, NEONICOTINOIDS ARE INGENIOUS IN THEORY AT LEAST,
Mostly they are APPLY AS A COATING ON SEEDS, IN ORDER TO ELIMINATE
THE NEED TO SPRAY PESTICIDES WHICH CAN BE CARRY BY THE WIND INTO AREA WHERE THEY ARE
NEITHER NEEDED NOR WANTED,
but they found the compound can leach into the soil and accumulate persisting for years
in concentration, that exceed levels that can kill the BEES
THE CANADIANS AWARE OF IT HAVE ISSUE A STRONG CALL ON THE GROWING CRISIS
AND EXPECT A RESPONSE, HOWEVER CROP LIFE CANADA THE TRADE ASSOCIATION REPRESENTING
THE PLANT SCIENCE INDUSTRY, ARGUE THAT BEE HEALTH IS A COMPLEXE ISSUE INVOLVING A HOST OF FACTORS, NAMING OTHER EXCUSES,
BUT THE FARMERS DEPEND ON BEES TO POLLINATE THEIR PLANTS, PAYING BEE KEEPERS
TO BRING IN BEES AND UNLEASHH THEM ON FARM PROPERTIES TO DO THEIR WORK,
BUT THEY ALSO USE PESTICIDAL MEASURES SUCH AS TREATED SEEDS TO KEEP DOWN PESTS TOO,
CANADA AND US EMBRACE THE USE OF NEONICOTINOIDS , WHILE PART
OF EUROPE HAS BANNED THEM,
MASS BEE DIE-OFFS ARE OFTEN DESCRIBED AS COLONY COLLAPSE ORDER, AND IN THE SEASON 2006 2007 ONE MARITIME PROVINCE LOST 62/CENT OF IT’S COLONIES,
THE WORST BEE DIE-OFF IN CANADA,
THERE ARE OTHER MANY CAUSE , PESTICIDES WHICH KILL THE BEES AND
OTHER COMPOUNDS THAT CONFUSE THEM, SO THAT THEY CAN’T FIND THEIR WAY HOME,
OTHER ARE MITES, DISEASE, STARVATION, POOR APIARY HUSBANDRY,?
CLIMATE CHANGE , AIR POLLUTION, EVEN EMISSIONS FROM CELLPHONE TOWERS.
I did shrink the content.
BYE
@ilovebeeswarzone:
Yes I had little respect for him being “brave and deserving our praise” whilst packing a concealed handgun (legally held).
Why do you believe Zimmerman would have died and this was his only option? How many people had the 17 year old Martin killed before? Zimmerman had injuries which did not, in his own opinion, merit going to hospital. They were not life threatening injuries. Sure Zimmerman put himself in the situation where he felt his life was being threatened, partly as he feared Martin would shoot him with Zimmerman’s own gun. Yes Zimmerman had been in a fight and fights can hurt. Most people having fights do not shoot someone dead. None of us know what the outcome would have been if Zimmerman had not pulled the trigger.
SOLARMAN
I never said if he had operate without a gun i would have respect for him,
but i would have respect for a dead man.
no i never said that you must have taken this somewhere else,
check it up.
what I said is if he did not have his gun, he would have been killed,
@solarman:
So that is the new litmus test? You can only defend yourself from someone beating your head into a concrete sidewalk if they have committed a previous murder?
OK, so now George Zimmerman, and everyone else in this nation, is supposed to make a medical decision about their own injuries/illnesses? Why have EMTs, doctors, nurses, et al? We can all decide how to treat our maladies and not have to pay for medical expertise. Oh, wait, the EMT testified that they were under the impression that the police would take Zimmerman to the hospital. Seems that EMT needs to find another line of work when they cannot make sure that someone with obvious head injuries should be checked out by a physician.
Are you under the impression that a punch, even one punch, to the face is not “life threatening?” Please, tell me you’re not that ill informed.
@retire:
The point I was making was that Zimmerman was probably not “about to die” as some commenters seemed to believe with almost 100% certainty. Yes he may have been punched to death but no one can know unless you have some other data on which to base your view.
ilovebeeswarzone felt Martin was going to kill Zimmerman for sure. I am interested to know how someone could be so sure without having any evidence which supported that point of view. This is not about what Zimmerman thought or whether he could have known better than medical experts. In any fight punches are thrown and yes they can cause life threatening injuries in a relatively small number of cases. In this case we know better as we have had the benefit of feedback from medical experts. So we can say for sure that his injuries were not life threatening. My ironic question asking about the number of people Martin had killed previously in fights was to try and guess what data led people to conclude he was 100% going to kill Zimmerman or was it just an opinion based on no particular evidence.
Zimmerman had choices and for me he picked the wrong one. You may disagree with me and that is your right but that doesn’t change my opinion.
@solarman:
I never said Zimmerman was about to die. I said he could have died from the beating Martin was giving him. And what do I base that on? Simple, Hoang Nyugen was murdered with ONE punch to the face. ONE. By black gangbangers playing a game called “Knock Out” which seems to have gained in popularity in St. Louis and other major cities with a large black population. I also base my “opinion” on the fact that due to the complexity of tramatic head injuries, the NFL now positions physicians at every game. And NFL players are NOT getting their heads pounded on a concrete slap.
You also ignore that Zimmerman may have medical problems down the road from traumatic head injuries that are now apparent now.
So did Martin. He could have returned to Brandi Green’s town house and called 911 instead of back tracking and throwing the first punch. It was at that time Martin became the aggressor, not Zimmerman.