Rand Paul began filibustering the Brennan nomination about 4 hours ago. Mike Lee has now joined him.
Paul vows to continue the filibuster until Obama declares drone strikes on American citizens on American soil as unconstitutional and that he has no authority to make any such decision:
Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) has launched a talking filibuster against the nomination of John Brennan to be director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).
“I’m here to filibuster John Brennan’s nomination to be director of CIA,” Paul said on the Senate floor Wednesday. “I will speak for as long as it takes.
“I will speak today until the president says, ‘no’ he will not kill you at a café.”
Paul has said he wants more answers from the administration on whether American citizens can be targeted by armed drones inside the United States before he’ll lift his filibuster on Brennan’s nomination. …
“Has America the beautiful become ‘Alice in Wonderland’?” Paul said. “When I asked the president can you kill an American on American soil, it should have been an easy answer — an unequivocal no.
“But his answer was, ‘I haven’t killed anyone yet and I have no intention of killing Americans, but I might.’”Paul said the possibility that a citizen could be targeted without being charged in the courts went against the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution, which gives citizens the right to a trial by a jury of their peers.
“The Fifth Amendment should also protect you from a president who might kill you with a drone,” Paul said. “No American should be killed in their house without a warrant. … But [Obama] says trust him, he hasn’t done it yet.
“Mr. President that’s not good enough. … I will not sit quietly in my office and let him shred the Constitution.”
He spoke about the Posse Comitatus Act, how Obama and pals are barred from using the military on American soil unless an insurrection or war is declared.
The point, Paul says, is that military and police power are separated from judicial power for a reason, and the reason is due process. Without that separation, the executive will be transformed into a tyrannical power, regardless of whether the executive chooses to exercise that power or not. The answer from Eric Holder that “we probably won’t exercise that power” doesn’t address the issue.
…Paul just asked whether this power would have been so acceptable to Democrats 40 years ago. What if, Paul wondered, someone had dropped a Hellfire missile on Jane Fonda or college students at the time who were raising money for the Viet Cong? Would the same Democrats who are sitting on the sidelines now have protested such tactics at the time? After all, raising money for the enemy is arguably treason, and Paul said he’d have called it that — but those students would have deserved to get their day in court.
[youtube]http://youtu.be/zBpYkzYL-TM[/youtube]
Great points….BUT where was he during the Hagel nomination? A nominee just as dangerous as Brennan.
Lots of cheers for Rand Paul blocking Brennan. But RP explained vote 4 Hagel by saying O has “prerogative” on apptees twitchy.com/2013/02/26/sen…
— Michelle Malkin (@michellemalkin) March 6, 2013
I like Rand Paul. I just don’t get how you square the circle. twitchy.com/2013/02/26/sen…
— Michelle Malkin (@michellemalkin) March 6, 2013
He should of done this during Hagel as well….but he didn’t. So letting a dangerous clown like Hagel slide is ok but when Paul wants to talk about drones than he is going to fight?
Come on….
Given all that I still support what he is doing but as Malkin said, I just don’t get how you square the circle.
UPDATE
Via Ed Morrissey:
Ted Cruz has just joined in to ask questions of Paul, in what looks like a pretty smart strategy. Paul has specifically stated that he will take questions without relinquishing control of the floor, and both Cruz and Lee are asking oddly lengthy questions. In other words, they’re providing Paul with short opportunities to rest his voice, and to add more ammunition to his rhetorical magazine. Puns very much intended, by the way.
UPDATE
Democrat joins in
Heading to the floor to speak on Congressional oversight of executive branch & rules for targeted killings. Watch: c-span.org/Live-Video/C-S…
— Ron Wyden (@RonWyden) March 6, 2013
UPDATE
Just when you thought the #filiblizzard couldn’t get any better:
Rubio…joins in. And he starts with a water joke.—
DrewM (@DrewMTips) March 06, 2013Heh… @marcorubio tells Rand Paul to have water nearby. LoLoL—
Bryan Tupper (@BryTupper) March 06, 2013Rubio: “Let me give you some free advice. Keep some water nearby.”—
Lachlan Markay (@lachlan) March 06, 2013
Anyone notice this filibuster is turning into a preview of the GOP Presidential Debate 2016?
UPDATE
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., asked Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., to drop his filibuster so that the Senate could proceed with votes this evening, but Paul declined to do so.
“I have no problem with people talking a long time,” Reid said, before asking if Paul and two other senators would limit themselves to speaking for 30 minutes more each.
Reid asked for unanimous consent, but Paul objected. “The only thing I would like is a clarification,” Paul said, proposing that Holder retract his claim that “it is possible, I suppose, to imagine an extraordinary circumstance in which it would be necessary and appropriate under the Constitution and applicable laws of the United States for the President to authorize the military to use lethal force within the territory of the United States.”
Paul noted that Holder seemed to contradict that statement during testimony this morning; he said he would end the filibuster immediately if Holder put his apparent retraction into a “coherent letter.”
Reid decided to continue with Senate business tomorrow rather than fight for time today.
And then he tried to take his ball and go home:
Reid walked away. Still needs deal w Paul 2 wrap up #Senate + set #Brennan cloture vote Thurs.#CIA #GOP #Democrat
— Alan Ota (@Alankota) March 6, 2013
See author page
@Richard Wheeler:
No one here is engaging in that, Rich. What you suggest, regarding McVeigh, is that his Constitutional rights could be violated before he even committed a crime worthy of capital punishment.
So much for the rule of law.
@johngalt: You prefer we wait till he murders 168 and wounds 800 innocent people? Do not concur.
@another vet:
Yes, beyond all of the discussion and legal wrangling about whether the idea of droning a US citizen on US soil is Constitutional or not, there is that.
Would the left be ok if a GOP president used a drone strike to kill a US member of, say, ELF, if an imminent firebomb attack was known to be in the works against, say, an oil refinery?
And even beyond that, concerning the general use of drone strikes on US citizens on foreign soil, would they be ok with, say, China parking a ship a hundred miles off the coast of california and using a drone of their own to attack dissident Chinese citizens in SF’s Chinatown?
Poppa_T
hi,
I must say that the MILITARY IN AFGHANISTAN HAVE BEEN DISMEMBERD OR KILLED BECAUSE THEY PROTECT THE CIVILIANS WHICH FOR MANY HELP THE ENEMIES FOR A FEW DOLLAR THEY NEED TO FEED THEIR SEVEN CHILDREN,
unfortunaly the military on a stage of war must kill the enemies they are there for freeing the people
from those enemies,
where do we draw the line? thE MILITARY WHERE COMMAND TO MINUTE DETAILS TO SAVE THE PEOPLE , TOO MUCH BECAUSE OF WHAT I NAMED BEFORE ABOUT HOW THEY WHERE KILLED BECAUSE OF TRYING THE OUTMOST TO SAVE THE OTHER,
BUT BUT IT IS A WAR WHICH CANNOT END WITH THAT KIND OF CAREFULNESS,
THE LIVES OF OUR OWN DEMAND A PRIORITY OF DECISIONS WHICH MUST BE THE NUMBER ONE,
NOW THEY ARE REDUCE TO OBEY KARZEI WHO BLAME THEM FOR HIS OWN SOLDIERS KILLING CIVILIANS AND TELL THE AMERICANS TO LEAVE THAT PLACE WHERE THE KILLING TOOK PLACE BY HIS OWN MEN,
THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE AND MUST BE DEALT WITH AN ULTIMATUM FOR LEAVING NOW,
OR OBEYING THE STRATEGY OF THE AMERICAN COMMANDER ON THE WAR ZONE NOW,
FOR THE SOLDIERS TO OBEY THAT ONLY COMMAND AND DISREGARD THE KARZEI IMPLICATION
AND ORDER THAT THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS SOLDIERS, WHICH IS AN HUMILIATING ORDER
NOT TO BE DISCARD,
HELL THE AMERICANS TOOK SO MUCH CASUALTYS IN THAT WAR, THIS HUMILIATION ALONE
SHOULD HAVE TRIGGER THE END OF THAT WAR POINT WITHOUT ANY OTHER WORDS,
THE MORE THE AMERICANS HELP THE MORE ARROGANT KARZEI BECOME,
HE IS SHOWING THAT HE IS READY TO TAKE OVER, HE SHOULD BE ON HIS OWN NOT IN 2014
BUT YESTERDAY,
AMERICA LOST TOO MANY SONS AN DAUGHTERS AND
IS SEEING TOO MANY SONS AND DAUGHTERS WOUNDED
IT’S LONG OVERDUE THAT WAR MUST END,
AMERICA WILL NEVER RECOVER FOR HER LOST OF SO MANY BRAVES
AND NO IMMIGRANTS OR ILLEGALS CAN REPLACE HER LOST IN A HUNDRED YEARS NOW,
THAT THOUGHT SHOULD BE IN THE MIND OF EVERY PERSON CLAIMING TO BE AN AMERICAN,
YOU LEAVE A WARZONE WHEN THE SIGNS ARE THERE
THAT IS NOW,YESTERDAY
BYE
@Richard Wheeler:
Did I say that? Ever?
If the government knew enough beforehand to know McVeigh was planning to bomb a building, and knew he had purchased the necessary bomb components, and knew specifically where he was, or was going to be at a certain time, in order to launch a drone strike against him, wouldn’t that suggest that they also have the ability to still adhere to the rule of law and enact a search warrant and arrest of him, prior to him actually committing the crime?
Do you see how your suggestion falls apart now, and that in reality what you are advocating is the removal of Constitutionally guaranteed protection under the law, on the advice and consent of a handful of people, who you wish to give the power of life and death over a person before ANY due process is applied?
@Richard Wheeler:
You create a slippery slope Rich. Who exactly gets to determine who qualifies as a terrorist? And when the administrations change, do the qualifications for who is and who is not a terrorist change?
@Richard Wheeler: My point exactly. If you are comfortable giving these powers to Obama, you will also be giving them to whoever else occupies the WH.
J.G Bottom line. Holder has provided a statement that Paul’s satisfied with. I’m good with it. How bout you?
BTW I’m absolutely good with the process you so eloquently outlined in 57. Ah for the perfect world. However if this cat is sitting in a truck with a boatload of dynamite in front of a fed building and a “terrorist attack is imminent” I say “nuke him”
Read him his rights later.
Back to March Madness
@Richard Wheeler:
The problem is, who determines if you are a terrorist? As it stands now they, the administration doesn’t have a clue when it comes to radical muslims yet they will be able to tag an American citizen for assassination? As I mentioned peviously ‘they’ do not have the right to decide without due process that you are to be killed. – and of course there is the collateral damage. Do you want that collateral damage to be your family?
These actions are unconstitutional.
@Richard Wheeler: Last year a buddy of mine took his son to get a motorcycle license. They were bounced around all day from one facility to another each one telling them they couldn’t do the test there and to go to the the other facility because they could do it there only to be told they couldn’t do it. At the last facility they were at, he commented to his son, “And you wonder why people get shot in places like this.” One of the employees told him she didn’t like what he said and he told her to mind her own business because it was a private conversation between him and his son. She called the police and had him arrested. Using your logic, the police should have shot him the head on the spot.
@Richard Wheeler:
Bottom line? How does what Holder’s statement to Rand Paul square with what you have been advocating?
The fact is that you suggest something that goes far beyond what Holder finally admitted to, and now you are trying to brush it off by completely ignoring it.
Are my points any less relevant because Holder issued sent some letter to a Senator?
Are your suggestions any less egregious to the Constitution because Holder sent some letter to a Senator?
And all you can say is that “I”m good with it.”
That is pitiful, Rich.
THE FREEDOM FIGHTERS ARE THE TERRORIST, THE NEW MAJORITY ARE THE ILLEGAL,
THEY ALSO CALL THEM THE PILGRIM NEW MAJORITY,
WHAT DO THEY CALL THE AMERICANS WHICH ARE THE MAJORITY IN THIS USA?
THEY TRY TO CONFUSE THE GOOD AMERICANS,
AND FORCE THEM TO TAKE NEW LABEL,
HE CHANGE THE NAME OF THE FORT HOOD TERRORIST FOR ANOTHER NAME SO THEY DON’T PAY THE ONE WHO WHERE INJURED, HOW CHEAP CAN YOU BE,
@johngalt: What was that old saying about people who give up their freedoms in exchange for the promise of security deserving neither freedom nor security?
@johngalt: Did you read the rest of my 58? Do you want points for your argument? Take as many as you want
My suggestions egregious? To take out terrorists of any nationality if they present an IMMINENT DANGER to Americans. I’ll stick with that.
@another vet:
If you cannot stand up for the rights, freedoms and liberties of even the most reviled amongst us, then you have no claim to protection under those same rights, freedoms and liberties you seek to deny others of.
@another vet: Thirty years of service. I salute you’
Remember the traitorous American citizen who went to become a spokesman for the Taliban Are you gonna give this guy any special treatment if he comes at you whether in Kabul or Detroit?
@Richard Wheeler:
To the Constitution and the Rule of Law? Yes, absolutely they are.
No, I don’t care about accolades or “points” for an argument.
Yes, I just did. And your addition still doesn’t matter, concerning the use of drone strikes against US citizens. We could bandy about various scenarios all day long about when it is appropriate to attack US citizens without due process, and nothing would change my viewpoint.
@johngalt:
If the federal government has the authority to just kill anyone who poses a threat to the life, and property, of other Americans, why did the government spend so much time and effort trying to bring Al Capone to court? Why not have just placed snipers on roof tops where he was known to hang out, and when the opportunity presented itself, POW! Money saved. No court expenses, no expenses for prison. Just a couple of bullets and be done with it?
It is because we don’t kill Americans without due process, no matter what. To do so is not justice, it is state sanctioned assassinations.
Of course, we know that law enforcement never made mistakes and get the wrong person. Just as the widow of Jose Guerena.
@retire05:
Since 1973, 111 innocent people have been convicted of murder and put to death. Since 1974, 140 innocent people have been exonerated of the crime they were convicted for, and released from death row. And the current estimates of numbers of innocent on death row bring those two numbers higher still.
And that is with the benefit of due process, where the burden of proof is heavy, where the accused get their day in court with legal representation, and numerous appeals of their convictions, where a jury of their peers is present to hear evidence.
I’ll let people make their own conclusions about specifically targeting people for execution without due process, by one man, or a small group of men, who don’t constitute a jury of peers, much less a Grand Jury, and what could happen.
@another vet: A.V. You’re a smart guy .You know I don’t agree with that. I hope. Many other wild scenarios have been posted. Good for laughs.
.
@johngalt:Response to Reto5.
“Innocent people put to death”. Careful now, you’re talking to a Texan.
@johngalt:
Jose Guerena never got the benefit of a trial. A combined force swat team broke into his house and unloaded 71 shots toward him, over 20 of them hitting him. As his wife was screaming, holding their four year old child, the swat team searched the house, did not call an ambulance and allowed Guerena to bleed out and die. Guernena was a former Marine with two tours to Iraq under his belt.
The police claimed he fired at them first. Only problem was that his AR-15 had not been fired and in fact, still had the safety on.
So a bunch of thugs dressed up in swat team clothes that call themselves law enforcement officers shot and murdered an innocent man because (wait for it) they had the wrong guy.
Now we have a POTUS that is creating kill lists with no oversight. No taking that list to the Congressional judicial committes, or the committe on home land security. Nada. Just one guy making decisions about who to off next. Frankly, that’s not my country. My country is the one that worked its tail off to put Al Capone in prison.
@anticsrocks, #15:
It should be clear what my position is. I can imagine unlikely circumstances under which a drone attack on an American citizen on American soil could be not only a justifiable action by an America president, but the only rational course of action. Consequently, I don’t want that option to be categorically ruled out ahead of time, not knowing what circumstances might actually arise.
Taking such an action would be an extreme exercise of Executive Branch power. It would cross a line set by the Constitution, and would almost certainly be the subject of a full Congressional investigation. But, as Obama pointed out to Rand Paul, he hasn’t done anything like that. It’s a bit too early to be holding a hearing.
Holder or Obama could have responded to Rand Paul by simply lying, saying No, under no conceivable circumstances would that ever be considered. They didn’t say that, and they shouldn’t have.
@retire05, #72:
That would seem to call into question Pima County, Arizona officials and law enforcement—not the Obama administration, federal courts, or federal law enforcement.
another vet
yes, I feel sorry for your friend, he was shoved from one office to the other,
no wander he got frustrated, that clerk was a fool to call the police,
she should lose her job for doing that to a citizen she was shoving from different places,
then expect a thank you,
I hope THE POLICE HAD A BETTER BRAIN THAN HER, AND LET HIM GO.
do you know if he’s okay
@Richard Wheeler:
Have innocent people been sentenced to death row in Texas. Yep. But the miracles of modern science, i.e. DNA, has set a number of them free. As to the other slugs that have received the death penalty in Texas, it shouldn’t take my state 15 years to strap them on a table and put them down like the dogs they are. But it does, because if you are given the death penalty in Texas, your case automatically gets kicked up to an appeals court. Most of these slugs have expired all their options, including the SCOTUS.
Unlike California, we don’t think that we should keep rabid dogs alive and give them all the benefits of home. You kill one of us, we’re gonna kill you back.
@Greg:
Yep, Greggie, Pima County with the same Sheriff Dupnik that ran his mouth after he, and his department, failed to protect Gabby Gifford and the others that were shot.
Jose Guerera was shot because the stupid Pima County LEOs, headed by Dupnik, mistook him for his brother that they are now claiming is a heavy duty drug cartel member.
What makes you think that the federal government is any more immune to mistakes than local law enforcement departments?
I’m gonna walk my Golden’s but here’s one to spark debate. With spring training underway in Arizona a number of Major League players of Latin descent have claimed local police have been giving them a lot more ATTENTION than they are used to in San Francisco or Milwaukee.
Query Who do you trust more to do the right thing BHO/JOE/ERIC or Sheriff Joe and his Merry Men?
Note—About 30% of Major Leaguers and 40% of Minor Leaguers are of Latin descent.
Reto5 “Kill them slugs” We lost a couple of innocents a while back you say–Collateral Damage
Don’t Mess With Texas
another vet
now I understand why there is so many felons who claim
to have been charged for doing nothing wrong,
and when they tell their story, you think hell he is absolutely right
and did not deserve to go through what they did and still are branded like animals
and hard to find a job,
if your friend had problem it was not because he did anything wrong for sure,
@retire05, #77:
The daily news. Federal errors generally become high profile national news stories. Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc. Such incidents are few and far between, compared with the relatively high number of state, county, and local “mistakes.”
@Richard Wheeler: I have no sympathy for the guy you are talking about as he was a sworn enemy of the U.S. and if I’m not mistaken he physically went overseas to aid the Taliban. To me it would be the same as an American citizen who went to downrange to fight for the NAZI’s. Labeling an American citizen in this country a terrorist and then taking him out is another story. We don’t need to go down that slope. Rand Paul’s statement that was presented by anticrocks in #15 is pretty much in line with my views on the matter although I would add that if they are overseas aiding our enemies in anyway, not just shooting at our troops, they are open game just like targeting bad guys occupying an enemy radio station or command post would be.
@Richard Wheeler: Of course I don’t believe that you would support that. Question is, when do YOU want the line drawn and by whom?
@ilovebeeswarzone: He ended up with something like court supervision or community service. Naturally I teased him and told him I saw his wanted poster when I went for my license renewal.
@Richard Wheeler: Bring poop bags.
@Richard Wheeler:
The ONLY reference I could find to your allegation is from 2010.
It pointedly says, teams fear their players’ brown skin could attract the attention of law enforcement officers who are getting ready to start enforcing SB 1070 when it goes into effect on July 29, 2010.
Got any proof that, over the last 2+ years anything REAL happened?
http://colorlines.com/archives/2010/06/baseball_teams_prep_rookies_for_arizonas_sb1070.html
Lots of ”ifs,” no concrete examples.
@Richard Wheeler: And the investigation into McVeigh was 100% correct? Unless you ‘concur’ that EVERY investigation is foolproof, why would you abandon the rule of law? What if an investigation is incorrect and points to an innocent person? By your insipid logic, it will be too late because they will be dead.
I can’t see that you seriously believe that, Rich. Me thinks you’re just basking in the attention that you get by saying stupid shit.
@Richard Wheeler: /facepalm
Grow up
@another vet: 3 deployed and utilized—Didn’ t see a response on American citizen Lindh who was a spokesman for the Taliban. Your thoughts?
Anticsrocks Are you suggesting there was ANY problem with Mc Veigh’s conviction and death penalty.Honestly,wouldn’t you prefer he was taken out BEFORE he murdered and injured over 900 people.#87: You’re as feisty as ever.Hope you’re health is good.
Obama CAVES!
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/07/historic-filibuster-renews-bipartisan-focus-on-drones-regulation/#ixzz2MtnqWrl9
@another vet:
another vet, so sorry for him, those injustices done because of a fool like that clerk,
make me so mad, bye
@Nan G: Giant closer Sergio Romo complained about traffic stops as have others.Why would this even surprise you?. Hasn’t Arizona law enforcement been charged with being more vigilant? Don’t you believe Latins as a group are being stopped more in Arizona?
BTW Do you still make BOGUS claim Obama professed “hatred” toward Israel in his speech to Muslim group?
“Obama Caves” You have a bad case of ODS. He obliterates your candidates twice and that’s all you got. Very sad
@Richard Wheeler:
Richard Wheeler
I believe Nan G comments much more intelligent,
and no pain in the ass like yours
@Nan G:
Yay! I made him say uncle!
So, what has changed? Other than hours of wasted time?
Sorry. Rand Paul is boob.
@Richard Wheeler: For Lindh, see my first few sentences in number 81. Any response to my number 82?
@Greg:
GREG
of course you don’t have the gutts to do the same,
he did it for many reasons more than your brain can perceive,
all people who are hung on OBAMA like you would not understand,
and you could not care less about what it take to be AMERICAN,
OR APPRECIATE THE CONDUCT OF TRUE AMERICANS,
YOU ARE THE BOOB WITHOUT GUTTS, NOT HIM,
SHAME ON YOU FOR BLAMING HIS CONDUCT
Maybe the question should have been phrased that precisely to begin with. Then we could have dispensed with unnecessary hours of the Rand Paul Show.
@another vet: Thanks read your 81. If Taliban sent American citizen Lindh to the U.S and on our soil he attempted terrorist acts I know damn well you’d cut him NO slack.
Any “imminent threat” of terrorist attack that endangers American lives should be met with a fast and if necessary lethal response. Any suggestions?
@Greg: EXACTLY Waste of time read “non combat role” Rand opened his campaign for 2016 with minimum use of water.
@retire05: Probably less immune due to the multi layers of buck-passing “authority” involved all the way back to DC. What or who stood in the way or asked for saner procedures during Ruby Ridge and Waco?? – There was plenty of time — those people were all completely contained — not going anywhere — surrounded and being picked off by the feds for trumped up and/or entrapment charges.
@Nan G:
Speaking of proof, you haven’t responded yet to my question here. After all, you only accused the President of being a murder who plans to destroy Israel. Is evidence for that charge too much to ask for? Just post those “other sources” you claim to possess. How simple is that? Share the sources, share the proof. If you don’t, or can’t, what choice do we have but to conclude you’ve been dishonest? What choice do we have but to suspect you’re a kook? If you’re telling the truth, this should be very easy for you: provide the proof, please. . If not, I think it’s pretty obvious what conclusions we should draw about you and your “facts”. Your choice.