The passage of the WI bill in the Senate yesterday, using provisions that allow by passing the presence of a quorum, has resulted in yet another eruption of an angry mob, attempting again hold Wisconsin’s Capitol building hostage today. Madison, WI “progressive voice” media, The Cap Times reports the crowd was numbering between 300 to 400 people as of 10:40AM, Wisconsin time. According to the Daily Reporter, the protestors came prepared for a lengthy squat, carrying musical instruments and stashes of food. (See Curt’s post for more indepth details.)
But sour grapes and good ol’ fashioned angry mob protest is not the only assault launched against a duly elected majority in Wisconsin, desperately trying to get the State’s debt under control. When you’re a one trick monkey, you do what you know best. In this case, “the monkey”… i.e. the labor unions and Democrats… are going back to their Alinsky roots and commenced with an assault campaign on Wisconsin’s Governor in an effort not dissimilar to the smear campaign, launched against then Veep candidate, Sarah Palin.
A notable difference here – the Dem party can’t figure out a way to make the taxpayers pay for their smear campaign, as they did in Palin’s case. They are having to pay for it themselves this time. Too bad.
Then again, maybe that’s why I’m getting Daily KO’s solicitations for Walker recall funds. They’ve got to pay for the smear campaign some way, right?
What smear campaign, you ask? First example is the formal ethics complaint by Margaret Brick of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin. The said complaint, with pile ons, actually revolves around a prank phone call to Walker’s office with a party operative who posed as one of the Koch Brothers. TPM’s Greg Sargent gleefully confirms the Gov fell for the prank, hook, line and sinker. This does seem somewhat odd since, if Walker is supposed to have some bedroom relationship with the supposedly evil Koch brothers, would he not recognize their voices?
The prank, in itself, doesn’t bother me. After all, we have exposé operations that occur from both sides of the aisle. What would be in question is whether Walker actually did anything wrong in his phone conversation. Walker avers he said nothing he hasn’t said on the campaign trail, and apparently Brick wants a court to weigh in. So be it… that’s the American way. But will it be nothing more than another frivolous lawsuit? A tactic launched relentlessly against Palin?
The complaint, according the TPM’s summation:
…alleges that several violations of the law occurred on the call: That Walker attempted to coordinate third-party campaign spending, when he told “Koch” that there would need to be messaging in support of Republicans in tough districts; That he illegally used state facilities, the phone in his office, to commit said coordination; That he conspired to incite disorderly conduct when he said he had considered planting troublemakers among the protesters; That he misused the Attorney General’s office in seeking advice on ways to trick the Democrats to come back; That he violated labor laws by saying he would use threats of layoffs of state workers in an effort to pass the bill; And that he accepted a trip to California when offered by “Koch.”
As noted in the complaint, and as Tate pointed out on the call, these various alleged offenses are punishable by large fines and even years in prison.
Here’s the one that’s got me in an uproar. The most heinous “punishable” offenses are tantamount to a Class I Felony – as noted on pg 2 of the link, #13, which isn’t dissimilar to the AWOL/MIA Dem Senators, avoiding their duties to their contituents.
Dang, I bet Wisconsin taxpayers are glad this isn’t on their tab… unlike the Alaskan denizens.
Another interesting charge is that Brick accuses Walker of soliciting political contributions while present in the State offices. Dang… did they just go thru the Palin complaints and use them as a playbook?
Personally I find that extremely interesting when you consider it’s beyond questionable as to who is paying the hotel and expense tabs of the AWOL, irresponsible Dem legislators, hiding out in other states. Howard Dean’s $100K slush fund is being funneled to the Wisconsin State Senate Democratic Committee (SSDC) in violation of Wisconsin election law. Then there’s $279K, run thru the PAC, ActBlue, via several fundraiser including those run by Democracy for America and the Daily Kos website.
USAToday also reports on ActBlue’s activities to pay the bill for WI legislators, frolicking out of the state on a voluntary strike.
While Brick is happy to file lawsuits, she may want to consider the illegality of of funneling cash to Dems for *not* working (how union’esque, eh?) during a legislation session, as noted by WesternPAC’s site, and evoking WI Statute, Subchapter III, Chapter 13, Wisconsin Statutes (13.625) Prohibited practices.
Then, of course, there’s that pesky fact that the MIA legislators are the fiscal puppets of the unions and public sector employees, due to their heavy dependence upon them for campaign funds. i.e., the best AWOL legislators money can buy.
In the meantime, recall efforts by those on both sides of the aisle abound. Again, progressive blogsite, Daily KOs, finds it prudent to solicit the Democrats across the nation to support a single State’s recall effort, with the below alert sent out yesterday.
Progressive site, Think Progress, also reports on the attempt to recall eight GOP Senators in the Wisconsin legislature.. and effort that now the union powerhouse, the SEIU, has joined.
But it’s not just the left who is disgruntled with elected ones, skirting their duties and living off of Democrat donations in another state. American Thinker’s Phil Boehmke reports on the efforts to recall some Democrats, who’s efforts were met with union obstruction and thuggery.
The DLCC’s Michael Sargeant is doing his Alinsky best to rile up the base with anger by stating in his most recent mailout (in response to the WI vote) that Dems to to “..get mad AND get even.”
My guess is we can safely assume that Obama’s “can’t we all get along” type pleas following the Gifford shooting in AZ is but a distant memory.
What remains to be seen is how a nation will end up viewing David vs Goliath type battles, as voters and grassroots citizens – insistent that debt be reined in – go to battle with the well oiled thug tactics of powerful unions. The irony here is that a party that claims they are against special interests and for “the little guy” are those egging on one of the most power special interests groups, and applauding their bullying against those they claim to represent. Will they every acknowledge the dichotomy?
Unlikely.
Mata Musing: For an interesting history of “the fist” as a logo, as seen in the 1948 photo used in the thumbnails here, read here.
This was a black eye to Walker – especially his ‘dithering’ and not making this happen quickly… Regardless of the Kabuki theater that went on, his public polling has shown a major weakness that will be exploited by the Democrats in the next election. I really though that the Republicans (should they field a good presidential candidate) had a really good chance to beat Obama… in Wisconsin especially since Wisconsin did not re-elect Sen Feingold. Now I am not so sure. I am betting Wisconsin will swing back to Dems in 2012 (and possibly earlier if a recall campaign is established).
A feel good win, but bad strategy.
blast, what you fail to realize that is any attempts to rein in state spending – acerbated severely by unfunded pension liabilities and restrictive union contract demands – is going to result in a union push back on behalf of a small minority of the state’s workers at every attempt. Everyone wants reduced spending… as long as it isn’t them personally who have to take the punch in the wallet. A NIMBY attitude at best.
This isn’t a black eye to Walker save to those who are union supporters and live on the taxpayer’s payroll. This is local politics. And if there is debt reduction by Walker and the WI legislative body’s actions, they won’t be paying a political price in the next election. One need only look at NJ and Christie’s attitude – considered harsh by the same ilk.
A “swing back” to union thugs, holding the taxpayer’s hostage for tenure, high pay and exorbitant pension plans, guaranteed by taxpayers when short, is not a “swing back” at all. It’s where we live now. And the status quo is unacceptable to the majority of US citizens.
Therefore I label your observations as just wishful thinking at this juncture.
People need to remember the % of unionized workers in the USA is ~7%.
Government workers are far fewer than private employees, but they are also unionized at ~7% of all government employees.
SO……….
Even if all union workers and their spouses voted with the dems over Walker’s Senate move they would be in the small minority.
If these recalls actually happen a Republican landslide might just be the result.
Hey Mata:
Oh, I totally understand the need for sound fiscal practices. In fact, I think laws should be passed for any organization that has pensions that they need to be soundly funded, corporate or public. I think there is a lot to say on this… of course going into my feelings about how the Wall Street Bankers caused a lot of this as well.
Well, time will tell Mata. This is going to be fun to watch. Time will show how this will be packaged and sold. Carl Rove went to WI yesterday, I bet he told them to break the bill apart (something I was thinking for weeks). But we will see.
Well, obviously as a partisan you want to call them all union thugs… just like liberals attacked Tea Party members during the ruckuses that happened during the health care debate. Diminish them all, paint them all with a broad brush as to delegitimize what they are staying and stand for. I love teachers, firefighters and police… so I would not call them union thugs.
On another thread Mr Irons mentioned that in the last election the Union members voted 50/50 (dem/rep). So from a political stand point… if those are truly accurate (or even close), this will cost the Republicans a ton of votes in Wisconsin. Obama’s future was looking pretty dim in my view… the electoral map was changing against him in many areas. Now, I am not so certain that this will be a winning strategy for the Republicans, especially in WI. We will see
’tisn’t me who used the broad brush, but you, blast. My referral to union thugs is the leadership and their hired professional protestors. Teachers, etal, are merely union members, and spurred on by union leadership and calls for angry defiance, fueled by outsiders who know how to raise the temperature of a crowd.
You are aware that activist organizations pay outside protestors, yes? Another instances here on the lucrative biz of profession protesting. Another with bussed in pros at an O’healthcare “rally for reform”.
Or, as I call it, “have Che backpack – will travel for cause and cash”.
Embedding for this CBS video has been disabled by request on the linked YouTube, but you you can view it here. Take a good gander at these drummers – those who refused to vacate the Capitol last week – and then convince me they are firefighters or teachers by day, and not hired youth riff raff union’istas, blast.
You’ll get a learning experience out of this one, blast. Welcome to your local union tactics. “Grassroots” my ass…
Looks like a lot of mediocre out of work drummers are benefiting tho… LOL
“We tried to get out of the building after the vote, because they were rushing the chamber, and we were escorted by security through a tunnel system to another building. But, after being tipped off by a Democrat, they mobbed the exit at that building, and were literally trying to break the windows of the cars we were in as we were driving away,” said Republican senator Randy Hopper.
Wow, Mata . . . if the video tape shows and accurate depiction of “Wisconsin Teachers” they got tremendous problems. There is absolutely NO way in the would that I would allow any of those people in that video around my children. Dirty, unkept, totally druged-out appearence, nasty t-shirts, baggy pants . . . any school system that would have anything to do with that level of person would be seriously in deep yogurt. As with the Carpenter’s Union video, why pay a carpenter union member minmum wage when there is NOT one of them that have the loyalty to go stand on the lines.
It is a sad situation that has developed and the corruption is deep. The boil has been lanced and the putrid odor is spreading. Sad to that almost every state will have to run the same gamut to restore the taxpayers rights.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR POSTING THIS!
I’m very glad I found your blog!!
Steve
Common Cents
http://www.commoncts.blogspot.com
@ Mata… Che backpack. lol. HAHA, the video was hysterical. I don’t think you would dispute that tens of thousands of Teachers, Police and Firefighters (and supporters) went to Madison during this period. So I am not going to look at few clowns walking in a circle to replace the broader image of the size of the real members that were surrounding the capitol building. Amusing, but hardly newsworthy and of course, not real news to begin with. I like CEI on many issues, it is a libertarian advocacy group… and a funny video maker, that is for sure.
Looking at that video is like the left only looking at the few signs at a Tea Party rally that may have been questionable. Do it at your peril as the pendulum will swing the other way before you know it.
Would I dispute that “tens of thousands of teadhers, police and firefighters” went to Madison? Why yes, I would. To my knowledge, there is no demographic break down of the numbers of protestors, but I’ll guarantee they are not all firefighters, police and teachers. Additionally, a large number of them were bussed in from other states, and not even WI residents.
This would bring us to a very loose interpretation of what is a “supporter”… you mean the paid type?
I will once again remind you that the unionistas are behind this because of potential loss of their last bastion of power – the public sector unions. Who do you think is supplying tee shirts, banners and signs? And they have no compunction to hire riff raff help for camera face time, therefore fooling those like you into believing it’s bigger than reality. Therefore the video was to point out to you who the hard core people are behind this movement, and just who they are hiring to be their holdouts. It is not, as you suggest, to paint the entire rally as those riff raff drummer scum in the Capitol. But it is to remind you that there is a hefty portion of the loudest voices that are paid union help (minimum wage, to boot…)
As I said, if the debt comes down under Walker, WI will choose their path in the next election. However status quo and bowing to the unions is a guarantee the WI fiscal toilet flush continues. So forgive me if I find your pendulum peril warning no more than wishful thinking, as I said above. If the debt comes down, at best they can piss off the minority of folks being paid by the taxpayers. And that’s a small percentage of others shouldering the burden of whiners in the streets. Chutzpah when you think they have jobs and pensions, and so many Americans do not. It is the entitlement mentality to the max, and frankly I find it self indulgent, disrespectful of the rest of the nation out of work, and entirely unsympathetic.
@MataHarley, #2:
It’s not the middle class that’s put the middle class through a prolonged shake down that’s left it economically battered and bruised, and middle class working people are smart enough to figure that out.
Unions have to some extent protected their members from the battering that the non-unionized workforce has been taking. For that–for managing to hang on to the some of the economic security all working people aspire to–they’ve become a target. Anti-union forces are attempting to use that as a club to beat them down into the same hole they’ve got everyone else in. It’s all being done under the cover of “fiscal responsibility”–by a guy whose first order of business was to hand out a batch of special interest tax cuts.
I deplore what Walker is doing and the way that he’s doing it. I deplore the duplicity that blames working men and women for the consequences of policies clearly designed to favor the further upward concentration wealth an power. I do appreciate him, however, for clarifying the issues and battle lines.
There will be political consequences.
I guess not having a demographic breakdown you can’t say “a large number of them were bussed in from other states, and not even WI residents” (well, if they were bussed in from other states, by definition they would not even be WI residents.)
From the coverage… in general, on Fox and CNN, the crowd was too large to be influenced by a handful of paid protesters. There were crowd estimates by Madison PD of 40 to 50 thousand at rallies. I doubt that they were all union lackies bussed in from surrounding states. I would bet that the majority were citizens of Wisconsin, and many were union public and private sector who were there, since they had skin in the game.
Take a look at the pictorial from the 55 second mark.
Especially note from ~ 2:30 to 3:09.
What a system!
And it helps explain to someone as dense as Greg why the middle class that is NON-supportive of unions will win over the RICH (according to Obama’s own definition!!!) public sector union members.
We alreadyknow that Obama/DNC’s Organizing for America was bussing in protestors, blast. Also here, and again here. They were doing this from the mid February first protest that numbered approx 25,000. Somewhat an anemic “tens of thousands” number, don’t you think?
Nor are the remaining amounts of those “supporters”, as you like to call the paid help, all police, firefighters and teachers. First of all, there are 68,000 teachers in Wisconsin total. Firemen and police are not on strike, so can only be there when they are off shift. Students and others were there as well, encouraged to participate by their teachers with vested interest. The idea you think the majority of it were the affected teachers, and the still working firefighters or police indicates you have a math problem, or a highly inflated notion of how many of those employees were available and showing up at these rallies.
If you haven’t figured out who these people are, their agenda, and who they are dragging into the battle for camera face time, you need to reread my Feb 27th post. Let me reintroduce you to one of the Chicago protestors that was hauled into union action…
Therefore I am not in the least bit out of line to say that a large amount of them are bussed in, and from other states. Unless, of course, you want to arbitrarily assign a value to “large amount” that I did not.
What are you doing, @Greg? Spamming the threads with the same BS? I’ve already pointed out to you on the other thread that your blanket “for the middle class people” horse manure in fiction when you consider this is public sector unions. And the reason for the decline in private unions is because they are killing a company’s competitive ability globally with their “collective bargaining” demands.
As far as your claim that it’s not the fault of “the middle class”, may I point out the ugly reality that Wisconsin has been in Dem control for quite some time. So they sure didn’t arrive to their fiscal debt position because of GOP policy. Thus the reason for the GOP elective victories.
@ mata
maybe your eyes are as good as my math mata. I guess you would only be happy if you could say everyone there were anarchists, union thugs, miscreants of all sizes all out do do evil on the people of Wisconsin… you can’t blow off the perception and reality that there were huge crowds of people against this measure, and using a video from CEI as some sort of proof of what was happening in WI is ludicrous.
The reality is there were tens of thousands of people. Yes, I image there were some from outside of WI, I could imagine there were people in buses from in state and not. But Madison is in the middle of Wisconsin, and my final point was “I would bet that the majority were citizens of Wisconsin, and many were union public and private sector who were there, since they had skin in the game.” (skin in the game = motivation to be there)
You are a naive type if you refuse to recognize just how “community organizers” and unions work, blast. The CEI video is only ludicrous if you are determined to ignore the protest methods of unions. That you wish to stick your head in the sand because it’s an inconvenient fact, and distorts what you want to be real, isn’t my problem. Just make sure youe head in the sand is upwind from your butt, firmly planted in the same ground.
Secondly, you’re an extremist. I didn’t say *all* the protestors were bussed in, not Wisconsin residents, and that there weren’t some genuine protestors that actually were teachers, firefighters or police. It’s you who leaps from one spectrum to the other.
Frankly, I think there were a lot of dumb asses out there who haven’t got a clue how collective bargaining on everything other than wages (which is what Walker was offering originally, and compromised further on despite a flat out refusal by the Dem leadership) affects a budget and even quality of education. The polls, and the way the questions were worded, indicate how many are influenced on the “workers right” BS the headlines and unions blazed across the media. When it came down to collective bargaining on issues other than wages, the support for the unions went down, not up. We’ve been thru this on so many other threads already.
I’ll bet you even believe all those ME uprisings are pro democracy types, eh? I’ll make sure I tell the Easter Bunny to slide by your place this Easter as well.
As for a “majority”… who knows. You can’t claim that any more that I can claim a majority weren’t. What I’m trying to educate you to is that the face time is not by those supporters. And in fact, we have no idea if any of those doing the despicable acts and threats in this protesting were indeed teachers etal. What we do know is that who and what was splashed before us in the Wisconsin capitol and on the streets in interviews are not the faces of those you proclaim they are.
I-90 has been packed since the protests have started. My in-laws drive up to their home in Wisconsin every Friday afternoon and return Sunday. The traffic is unbearable, there’s a long wait just to get on two of the Rockford ramps, one is across the street from the Clock Tower Resort, the other also has the bumper to bumper traffice running through it. You have to go out of your way, backtrack 10 miles to get on the I-90 tollway and eventually drive right past the ramp you would be stuck waiting at. It’s coming out of Chicago and yes, lots of busses, downtown Chicago is less than three hours from Madison.
It wouldn’t surprise me if they’ve organized out of Rockford too, big town, usually only a 40 minute drive to Madison, lots of union workers and halls.
This site might provide some interesting info:
http://www.unionfacts.com/
@Missy:
Missy, that jives perfectly with what I read.
“….[A]t least 120 Chicago union members…..headed to Wisconsin Monday morning to join the protest….
Led by local union leaders, the protesters were boarding two large buses to Madison.”
Well, Mata
Well, I am sure we will be seeing more of these type of videos Mata. Everyone wants a macaca moment to hoist their adversaries on. The CEI video had little to do with Madison.
My comment was” I bet…” the majority were from Wisconsin AND many were union public and private sector. It is common sense thinking. Madison is in the middle of the state of Wisconsin (filled with Wisconsinites) and its real trip getting to Madison from population centers outside WI. It would take a whole hell of a lot of bus loads to get to half of the estimated 40 to 50 thousand people, even getting a few thousand people would to travel would be very expensive and time consuming. So I don’t think my assumption (bet) that the majority were from Wisconsin really needs to be defended. Now if you want to believe there were fewer people, or the majority were carpetbaggers, go ahead. You are entitled to your opinion as well.
155 miles to Chicago 6 hours round trip
269 miles to Minneapolis MN 10 hours round trip
I love the Easter Bunny! Be sure to tell him to bring more of those hollow chocolate bunnies. I promise to be
real goodsomewhat nicer.@Nan G, #3:
Recent approval ratings of two Wisconsin senators subject to recall are so low that loss of their seats in a recall election is very likely. The polling was of democratic, republican, and independent voters. Most of the six remaining republicans who are subject to recall won by very narrow margins to begin with.
Voter disapproval crosses party lines. The biggest shift is among independents. There’s a good chance of a democratic majority in the Wisconsin state senate before the year is over. Thanks the political incompetence of an overreaching governor, disgruntled voters won’t have to wait until 2012.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/03/poll_majorities_support_recall.html
@blast, #22:
I’d guess the majority are from Wisconsin also. Exactly as the majority protesting in Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, etc, are from those respective states. Why travel long distances with gas prices so high, when you’ve got your own example of a union-bashing, overreaching republican so close to home?
Back to talking polls again, Greg? You don’t retain well, do you?
IAM chapter 776 had to hire minimal wage picket liners due to the fact that 2007 and 2009 the Union inner vote to Strike failed to pass and the Workers could not legally be on a picket line. Beech’s IAM chapter also hired minimal wage picketers to bolster numbers. Nothing utterly new, but hey I guess Blast and Greg never worked within a Union system.
IN isn’t having such luck… I guess because all their paid help was in WI. It seems almost half the bussed in attendees weren’t from Indiana at all.
Oh… but that could never happen, eh? Afterall, Greg and blast assure us the nation is in an uproar over “worker’s rights”…
H/T to Nostradamus for a link to Instapundit roundup news
I’ve noticed the left repeating the same talking points over and over.
Attack on the middle class
Union busting
Surprise vote
Un-American
Unfair
Absolutist
Outrageous
Extreme
You will be punished for your actions
These phrases are making the rounds of all the far left sites and have been for some time.
If the matters of IN, WI, and OH were of a Federal National scale issue then these various groups of Unions protesting on the Capital Hills of different States to challenge a State law might have legit reasons… but these are intrastate issues and it can be seen by the respective States where these protests are happening that external protest entities could be seen as aggressive manipulation of State law for external interests which in turn violates 10th Amendment along with the State’s own Statues. Tread carefully, the lawmakers and the Citizens of the states are not growing keen to external manipulation of their State Laws (hence why the TEA party rallies have been in contrast rather passive in the political arena.)
Oh lawdy… this gets better. According to this lib’s website, the AFL-CIO was expecting 20,000 for today’s Indiana rally.
My my … where’s the outrage?
The starting salary for a Wisconsin public school teacher is $25,222 per year. The average salary is $46,390. 52% of Wisconsin teachers hold a Masters degree.
Want to see how public sector pay actually compares with private sector pay by education level in Wisconsin? Probably not, but here it all is on an easy-to-understand chart if you do.
@Greg:
Polls are fun, aren’t they?
Especially the one on Election Day.
Reuters/Ipsos polled adults, 1040 adults, including 776 registered voters, was taken last Thursday through Sunday.
They found this:
Only 37 percent of independents approve of the work Obama has been doing in office, which is a sharp drop from his previous mark of 47 percent.
The same tactics used against Sarah Palin are not working against Gov Walker and others.
But they do make Obama and his union buddies look bad.
Indiana protests today at the State Capitol building.
Courtesy embed by Mata
What was especially funny about Greg’s link, Nan G, was that it was the automated/press 1 for (insert here) type US Survey polls. The other knee slapper was that is was Greg Sargent, Talking Points Memo pundit and hardcore lib/prog, giving us his analysis of his privileged “advanced view” of the auto dial/press 1 poll.
That’s great Greg that you point out the starting wage, but did you factor into supplying the core of the Contract that also includes the wage raises increments that are mandated? Or the fact that this is for the duties of assistant part time work to ease teachers into full time positions? Giving only one snippet of the Contract’s wage scale is a hollow means of screaming, “You’re hurting the teachers!” especially when wages climb up pretty fast in set periods of time within the first year’s employee.
“Tens of thousands”??? Oh man.. that’s such a leap I had to embed it for you so that everyone could get a gander of that pan shot of “tens of thousands”… LOL
Apparently that guy needs some math lessons. Or perhaps he shouldn’t be using the AFL-CIO “predictions” as his count, eh? There’s no “tens of thousands” in that crowd. Dang… looks like my high school stadium would have held that many! LOL Honestly, Greg.. .have you never been to sporting events at stadiums, concerts or any large gathering to even have a clue to numbers?
Thanks for the video proof that the turnout was, indeed, deplorable. Looks like the Indiana blogger was closer to being correct at about 8000.
Oh and there’s that little bitty that starting Teachers get access to same level pension and Insurance packages as senior Teacher members of the Union, making the core package for starting Teachers roughly in the 40k range, but that would hinder Greg’s point.
@MataHarley, #34:
I suppose Dick Morris might have something more valid to offer, perhaps following the story about how Newt Gingrich was driven to adultry by the stresses of Defending American Values.
I think I’ll leave off for the night, before I’m driven to sarcasm…
Good idea, Greg. Might be a bit much to be sarcastic, along with pointless, gullible, uninformed and desperately off topic.
@MataHarley, #36:
*LOL* Yeah, I’ve got to admit that “tens of thousands” might be a bit of an exaggeration. Let’s give the kid a break. He’s a Young Reporter out of a small Indiana TV station, out on one of his first Big Stories.
“More than a few”, I’d say. Indiana isn’t exactly a hotbed of activism of any sort, so he’s got himself some NEWS.
@Greg:
greg, I don’t know how to break this to you, but America voted in a President who admitted snorting cocaine.
After that all bets are off about personal perfection.
Men can fall short of perfection and still get elected…..obviously.
Camera shots giving a clearer idea of the actual size of today’s demonstration in Indianapolis, from the opening minutes of the Rachel Maddow Show.
Republicans should avoid watching anything beyond the brief scenes from Indianapolis. Be warned! Content beginning at 3 minutes 30 seconds could cause republican heads to explode. It explains the reasons for the protest that will take place in Lansing, Michigan this coming Tuesday. That one is is expected to be the largest yet. It’s being organized by the AARP.
Oh yeah, he’s gone right back to using a proven liar and moron darling of the Media for his proofs.
As it stands, World Socialist Web is making the claim of at least 10,000 which Maddow is making reference to. Reality?
Almost half of the protest group in IN is composed of outsiders of IN who are attempting to manipulate State Law. So don’t give me this poppycock that it’s homegrown legit protesting in the thousands. Are IN protesters out there? Sure, but given that the Union buses used to load them up and ship them to the Capital composes slightly half of the total amount of buses used by various Unions across the nation, many from Kentucky, this isn’t even remotely reflective of the Citizens.
Then on top of that Maddow totally in cliched antics ignores the TEA party counter protests insisting outside State visitors to butt out of another state’s business.
Back to Wisconsin, union mob tactics, busing, etc. I’m familiar with Wisconsin thinking, the majority of my very large, huge family is spread all over Wisconsin. The bulk of them are on my facebook page, we also have a family facebook page that I’ve been watching.
We have teachers, private and public union members, farmers, retired professors with doctorates that worked their entire careers in Wisconsin colleges, doctors, nurses, factory workers and business owners, several in college in Madison, etc., the gamut and this doesn’t include spouses. Out of the more than 400 first and second working, retired and college age cousins, we have 3 that are supporting the mess in Madison. Their nonsense is posted daily, the few supportive comments have been from their children, no other family member.
Also, most of the comments from articles I’ve read from Wisconsin papers over the past few days…. support the governor. After reading through Mickey Kaus’s latest column the very first comment, in my point of view, captures what Wisconsin’s silent majority is thinking.
http://dailycaller.com/2011/03/10/did-walker-win/#ixzz1GIQkAXID
Missy, thank you for pointing out that. I’ve been eyeballs deep in various college course works and deep in various Bills and State Statues on top of other paper readings (I’ve even gone out of way to purchase some IN, OH, and WI news of late.)
I also love this little website…
http://www.scottwalker.org/issues/education
I mean it wasn’t exactly a hidden agenda of his to reform the Teaching system. The Unions are pissed because now they have to actually compete now from other workers for their jobs and if they slack off and do poorly then they can now be fired as they should have been instead of cushioned and protected for doing such terrible work.
@Mr. Irons:
I can see our border county’s exceptional young teachers trading places with the Wisconsin duds in the near future, Detroit will start to look good compared to this whole state.
I can’t get past the name calling and innuendos to see if there’s any meat in this article. While you’re talking about monkey tricks, don’t forget Palin and her conservative audience doing a ‘monkey see, monkey do’ act during the last Presidential election during her regurgitation of “Obama pals around with terrorists” thingy. Give me a break. How about some facts.
“Fail Troll is Fail.” What does Palin have to do with anything related to WI, MH, or OH’s intrastate politics? For that matter are you aware that she’s been almost completely mute on these matters and have kept her distance?
And as for facts, they’re staring you in the face. But I guess you’re like that Horse lead to water.
What name calling would that be, “liberal objectivity”? Altho I’m having a laugh at the oxymoron you chose for a handle…
You seem to “object” to my classification of the union Alinsky strategy of demonization as a “one trick monkey”. Me thinks you are far too hypersensitive. And what else to you call “name calling and innuendos” here that offend your oh so sensitive self?
As for facts, it could be that you’re link challenged. Hint… left click on the bolded red, and they lead you to articles. The Dems are filing a frivolous ethics complaint/lawsuit… the typical trick of the lib/progs bent on destroying then veep Palin. They even use the same arguments, just swapping out the name. I have penned in depth posts on all Palin complaints, called “Alinsky Perfected”, and linked in the frames on the right for those, like you, who have a hard time finding “meat”.
The Daily KOs, the DLCC are involved in national fundraising to illegally funnel cash for expenses to AWOL cowardly WI Dem legislators, hanging out in hotels and collecting their paychecks from the taxpayer to avoid their elected duties. Additionally, it’s a national fundraising campaign to target recall efforts and judicial assault for a single state.
And you wonder why I call these tactics a “one trick monkey”? Because it’s a predictable political strategy that your partisan buds use when ever they feel threatened.
Now, if you’re so hypersensitive as to take everything “personally”, and so completely clueless to your party’s political strategic playbook, perhaps you should start with a simpler blog mentality… like HuffPo or DailyKOs. They exude lots of “love your fellow man” type crap there… /sarc
@Mr. Irons, why does it not surprise me that MadCow uses the WSW as a source? The report she depends upon doesn’t cite how they arrived at the number. The IN blogger said around 8000. WSW says around 10,000. Who knows how many of those were media, counter protestors, lookie loos, etc. Why don’t we “compromise” and call it 9000?
Either way some facts are obvious…
1: There were 118 busloads of imports, almost half of them from out of state. Avg 30 people to bus, that’s 3540 imported, or 39% of the attendees. 1740 of them, or almost 20% of them weren’t even IN residents.
2: Even the WSW says the crowd fell far short of expectations… did MadCow mention this in her report? I couldn’t bear to watch….
Hummm… they don’t seem to want to find how many were the non-union affiliated, paid minimum wage to play, have Che backpack – will travel for cause and cause types.
Pingback: Wisconsin News - 3/10 - #4
re: #42
No one has any thoughts on Governor Snyder’s new approach to balancing Michigan’s budget?
The bottom line is quite simple, as Maddow explained: Snyder’s bill cuts programs to Michigan’s poor and imposes new taxes on Michigan’s senior citizens, to pick up $1.7 billion. (Sorry about that. It’s necessary to balance the state budget, you know. Hey, that’s what you elected me to do!) The money is then handed over to Michigan businesses in the form of $1.8 billion in new tax cuts.
That’s how you get the AARP to join forces with the protestors. They’ll probably be busing in angry old people from out of state next Tuesday. No one living in Michigan could possibly care.
@Mr. Irons:
Simple, liberal #2 has no answer and just wanted to lash out.
Greg, if you stopped listening to Madcow you might pick up a few IQ points and make it out of the single digit range.
@Greg:
Isn’t Detroit the city with so many abandoned housing that the wolves are reclaiming the land?
I think the city management planned to raze swaths of housing and force people into living where their numbers could protect them from predators.
The police don’t come out if they are called and cases are not closed.
Sounds pretty disastrous.
Most cites rely on property taxes to run.
I wonder how close Detroit is to not being able to run because of lack of funds?
Got a better idea?
@Hard Right, #52:
Do you realize that blocking any threatening opinion or information from consideration by simply denigrating the source is actually a psychological defense mechanism?
You can’t know what’s true without hearing both sides of an argument.
@Greg:
I wonder if Obama thought of that before he began advocating controlling school children’s speech?
No officials at the televised East Room roll-out of the White House’s anti-bullying initiative suggested any limits to government intervention against juvenile ”unwanted” speech.
You don’t think it will just be dirty words, do you?
LOL!
Oh, no!
It will be thought control.
Wrong thoughts will only be OK if you keep them to yourself!
@Greg:
“Hello kettle.”
Here’s s suggestion: use your own advice on yourself.
What the hell are you and MadCow discussing, Greg? What flits about in your minds that manages to get in the way of truths simply to advance an agenda of hatred and fiscal irresponsibility?
Let’s refer to MI local station, 9 and 10 News, shall we?
Let’s see… drops the income tax rate for *all*, including seniors, and their SS pension checks are still exempt. What was that again, Greg?
About the “low income” programs you two are wringing your hands over?
Perhaps you want indefinite welfare? Well there’s an incentive to get a job instead of walking to the mailbox to pick up a government check for a living…. /sarc
Both the Maxey Training School and Shawono Center are a state DHS run facilities for male juvenile felons, between 12 and 21 years of age. I guess girls don’t have such a facility.. who knows.
Back in 2008, they were planning on converting Maxey to a men’s prison to house 250 inmates with mental health needs, and moving the 60 juveniles to another location on the complex. The facility had 70 beds. Let’s see… 60 inmates a couple of years ago, and 70 beds. Hummmm….
Shawono Center shares the dubious record of being among the highest 10 youth facilities with highest sex abuse and victimization for the youths held there.
Ironically, one of their “treatment programs” is for “sex abuse”. I dunno… maybe they call that “job security”, continuing to inflict the same.
Which would bring me to this one…
Ya mean people likek those engaging in sex abuse at the juvenile DHS facilities? Good!
Hyperbole, Greg. You are a purveyor of hyperbole.
See Greg, Mata was nice enough to take the time to explain why Madcow isn’t worth listening to. This is something I knew as well as anyone who wasn’t a mindless demo-drone.
You see, she, like you are overtly dishonest and even you know it.
Oh yeah, Greg… I’d find it ironic you’d object to pensioners having to pay taxes on their pension earnings. It’s not income that is dissimilar to taking a portion of your own income (instead of your employer) and investing it, then demanding your capital gains profits on the earnings are tax free. I mean, don’t you bounce off the walls in frustration at 15% capital gains?
Not sure what your problem is with the business tax becoming a flat corporate tax. But other “business incentive” are being eliminated.
I’d say that Michigan could use all the business incentives possible with 10.7% unemployment. But I’m going to take a guess that the decline in unemployment (meaning those applying for or receiving claims) is something you’ll be celebrating… all the while never figuring out that the rates is going down because the long term gravy train is over. When your years of eligibility is over, it also means you no longer get counted. But I’m sure your party will try to spin this as “recovery”.
@MataHarley, #57:
Hyperbole?
$900 million of Snyder’s $1.7 billion will come from taxes on retiree pensions. Social security is exempted. So–true to form–he’s singling out seniors who receive federal pensions, state public employee pensions, and union pensions. I suspect many who have–or might have considered–retiring to Michigan because of the state’s attractive pension exemptions may simply pick up and leave, taking their consumer contribution to the state’s economy along with them.
The argument that this is a necessary step toward balancing the state budget is obviously horse hocky. He’s going to hand out more in new tax cuts to state businesses than his new taxes on seniors and his cuts to public assistance will bring in. What he’s doing is moving money from one person’s pocket to another’s. Somebody loses dollars and someone else gets them, and what group ultimately benefits is totally predictable.
Yo, Greg… Mr. Inconsistency. Have you lost what few marbles you possess? It was just a couple days ago you were whining about taxes.
Now you whine.. and I do mean whine…
Greg, doooood… *all* pensions will no longer be exempt from taxes. There’s no “singling out” going on. And why should there be? The pensioner did not pay taxes on it when the employer put it into a fund for them. When it comes back to them, you now want all that money tax free income? Geez, guy… don’t you whine constantly about tax cuts?
Or is it like this… only the people that you feel earn “too much” should pay taxes, and no one else should… most *especially* a public sector worker.
A little test for you, Mr. Inconsistency. At what age are teachers and public sector employees considered those abused seniors, and eligible for their pension income that you think should be tax free? Another toughie for you… do you think that a pensioner might also receive social security benefit checks?
duh…
Walker is letting some people keep more of their own money. People will hire. Businesses will be attracted to the State and more people will be hired. People will create wealth.
The government does not create wealth. But it will create a large class of people dependent on it, as in not free; the government has power over them.
“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
UNION THUGGERY
M&I Bank Issues Response to Letter From Wisconsin Union Group Threatening to Boycott M&I
M&I Bank (M&I) today issued the following statement in response to a letter it received from a union group threatening to boycott M&I if M&I does not publicly oppose Governor Walker’s budget repair bill.
Read more: http://www.sunherald.com/2011/03/11/2935913/mi-bank-issues-response-to-letter.html#ixzz1GLALV3Kh
Tantrums of unruly children being met with adult responses.
I hope that really pisses the unions off.
Heh!
Funny you mention that, Nan. Missy and I were discussing the M&I Bank and the union boycott a day or two ago. What baffles me is what is the connection with that bank in particular with anything that has to do with Walker and Wisconsin politics? Why that bank, and not all banks?
Inquiring minds want to know. But not badly enough to dig into M&I’s past dealings with the union. Just more sour grapes, IMHO.
According to Daily Kos,
Also linked there is the, Scott Walker Watch’s Boycott list.
Apparently they discovered that people were doing with their own personal money what unions have been doing with taxpayer money (giving to a candidate) and they don’t like it.
They took bailout funds, and (gasp) employees were making political donations???
Still ‘fused… why that bank, and not any other bank in Wisconsin that did the same? uh… that’s rhetorical, Nan G. Sure don’t expect you to waste more time than you have on the insanity…. LOL But really…. I believe that BFD is appropriate here.
@MataHarley:
Maybe my premise is faulty. I’m thinking that union pensions, federal pensions, and state and local public employee pensions are getting to be the only middle and working class defined benefit pension plans that are still left. While pensions may be taxed equally, it’s a a specific group of people who receive them to begin with.
But unequal treatment under the new tax Michigan tax law gets even worse:
Many retirees eligible for public pensions aren’t eligible for Social Security benefits at all. They weren’t covered under Social Security. Their annual public pension benefits will now be taxed by Michigan, while someone who receives an idential yearly amount of Social Security retirement benefits as sole their retirement income may not be. That can already be the case with federal income taxes. Same total income, different taxes.
If a retiree has worked in both the public and private sectors and is eligible for both a non-covered pension and Social Security, it’s already the norm for their Social Security benefits to be substantially reduced under the Social Security Windfall Elimination Provision. The reductions are often very substantial, reducing the Social Security benefit to a small fraction of what it would be for a private-sector-only employee who as worked identical years under Social Security and paid in identical amounts. So here again, we can now have public sector workers paying more state taxes on the same total dollar amount of retirement income. The same disparity pops up again with federal income tax.
I call this one a foul! The new Michigan law isn’t going to provide equal treatment for people having the same total retirment dollars to live on by any means, and public employee retires in particular could get the shaft.
Well, Greg… if someone doesn’t pay into Social Security, and gets to keep all that withholding in their paychecks over their working life while the rest of us don’t, why are they owed special favors in their retirement years to get exemption bennies?
Oh what a bunch of horse manure. I’ll tell you what. If you don’t like the 1978 new calculation of the Windfall Elimination Provision, why don’t you call Jimmah Carter and the 57 Dems who held the Senate in that year, and the 222 Dems who held the majority House in that year, to complain. I might add, all because of an entitlement ponzi scheme program YOUR party pushed to begin with. Frankly, I’m tired of listening to your selective “the middle class” BS over and over. Your class warfare, and insistence that some “classes” should get special consideration is beyond highly offensive. My patience is wearing thin.
So now, because of a state of which you aren’t even a resident, you’re calling “foul” on computations decided by your party’s President, and a Congress where both chambers were held by your party’s majority?
Desperate. And why?
Yes, it’s generally a minority amount of people who receive them. And it’s mostly the taxpayers on the hook with guaranteeing their solvency when the “union” employers lose their arse in investments. But that’s the *only* “middle class” in your opinion?
Really, Greg… your math is worse than Billy Bob’s. Repeat after me…the amount of union workers – private or public sector – is a minority of workers in this nation. So if you want to genuinely consider “the middle class” your party likes to pretend to defend, you might consider that most don’t have exempt SS withholding, nor pensions, but are still on the hook for living month to month on their retirement with a dwinding unsolvent SS retirement check.
Sheer chutzpah, dooooooood. You should be whipped at dawn… LOL Which brings me now to this, which was totally out of order in your response.
Ya think? Your entire mindset… even with your class warfare arguments and beliefs… is “faulty”.
@MataHarley, #68:
Federal retirees didn’t get to “keep all that withholding in their paychecks over their working life”. The great majority of currently retired federal employees worked under the Civil Service Retirement System. They paid 7% of their gross annual pay for their retirement plan coverage, plus an additional 1.45% in Medicare tax. That combined 8.45% total contribution rate exceeded the combined 7.65% paid by private sector employees for Social Security and Medicare. (See? I can do simple arithmetic.)
If the federal retiree also had a separate private sector job that gained Social Security retirement coverage, any Social Security benefit that would be payable is subject to offset under the Windfall Elimination provision. As a rule, career civil servants–and public employees in general–don’t get the full Social Security benefit they’ve paid Social Security taxes for. They generally get only a fraction of the computed amount; sometimes only a very small fraction (Same deal with public retirees who might otherwise be eligible for Social Security widow’s benefits. The Government Pension Offset provision often eliminates that Social Security benefit for the retired public employee totally–eliminating the non-taxable benefit in favor of the public pension that is totally taxable. Another classic example of how public employees put one over on their private sector counterparts, I suppose.)
So, we’ve got the fact that public pensions are subject to federal income tax, were an identical amount of Social Security benefits won’t be. We can now add the fact that the same will be true for Michigan state tax.
Admittedly Michigan has been giving public employee retirees a better deal on state taxes than most other states. Presumably that has been to Michigan’s benefit. It was calculated to make the state a more attractive retirement location, bringing retired public employees and their dollars into the Michigan economy. Retirees pay property taxes but bring no children that would be expenses to Michigan school systems. They spend outside sourced money locally, and pay state sales taxes on their purchases. They generally have health insurance, so they don’t put much demand on public health care. They also tend to be a stable social element.
Snyder, of course, can eliminate that attractive feature. He can selectively tax pensions where the same amount of Social Security isn’t taxed, but there’s no way in hell he’ll sell me on the thought that this is an example of equal treatment. One sort of retirment dollar based on one sort of career is fair game, while another sort of retirement dollar isn’t. He can get away with it only because of the divisive resentment that’s being stirred up about unions and public sector employees. (Or so he assumes.)
I suppose career military retirees who elected to settle in Michigan are having some of these same thoughts. The long cold winters up there might suddenly be looking somewhat less attractive. That not the only chill that’s setting in up in Michigan.