19 Dec
Weekly Open Thread
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Sunday, December 19th, 2010 at 5:00 pm | 522 views
Eeek! Carbon!
Challenger, the one of the largest steam locomotives ever built, and the largest still in service (6200 hp):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Union_Pacific_Challenger_3985_01.jpg
Curious what people think of the latest polling showing Palin really isn’t very popular with the electorate.
Also, what do you guys think of Palin’s vocal support for even more free-trade agreements.
I think you’re a crank, Ivan. That’s what I think.
Wm T Sherman said:
I think you’re a crank, Ivan. That’s what I think.
Hmmm…”the last act of the desperate mind is the personal insult.”
Thank you for once again, proving the validity of that saying.
Now, what do you think of her free-trade stance?
@Ivan:
This amusing gem is brought to you by the guy who said these things about Sarah Palin, a person with whom he disagrees:
Now…what were you saying again?
You’re going to have to speak up so we can hear you over your hypocrisy.
Well Ivan, see, your previous performances here are not forgotten. You have acted badly, basically p*ssed on the rug, and here you are Sunday night acting like none of it ever happened. Sorry. After all that, maybe you’ll get a serious discussion, and maybe you won’t.
Wow, you guys know you’re not playing with a winning hand here.
What was the latest poll, 57% unfavorable? Man you can get one of those hooks they used to use to pull people off the stage as her 15 minutes is about up with that horrid polling.
Okay, let’s try this again: do you guys support her advocating for free-trade?
Simple question. Your inability to answer it is telling.
Aye, #5
. . . Now That’s funny.
And Wm T, your #3 actually animated a chuckle. It doesn’t even mater what it was in response to, . . . . Thanks.
@Wm T Sherman: #3
A crank is what gets a gas engine started. Without the crank, the engine can’t do anything.
One of my brothers is a train engineer, and we pick on each other in fun ways. When we get into a battle of wits, I always win because I will ask him, “How many years of schooling does it take to learn, forward, reverse, forward, reverse….?” Then I would always add that I could steer my semi.
Smorgasbord – I think Ivan is a Wankel.
All right Ivan, I’ll bite. What pronouncement from Sarah Palin about free trade are you talking about? Was it this week? This year? This is not a Palin for President site, and we don’t follow her every move like you do. Provide a link – you know, in the customary way that a non-troll would do.
Then give me your reaction to Hillary Clinton’s statements on free trade. Immediately.
Lighten it Up a Little…
http://www.papatedsplace.com/Christmas1920s.html
A Christmas Trip to the 1920s for You all. Be careful with that Red Ryder BB Gun. Don’t Put Your Eye Out!!!!
http://www.tropicalglen.com/Jukebox/Virtual%20CDs/Christmas/VCD-Christmas.html
AND NO I AM NOT OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER THE 20s BUT SAT AROUND THE DINER IN TOWN TO LISTEN TO THE OLD TIMERS DESCRIBE IT IN GLOWING RETROSPECT.
@Wm T Sherman: #11
I think Ivan is a Wankel.
Wankel engine |ˈwä ng kəl; ˈwa ng-|
noun
a rotary internal combustion engine in which a curvilinear, triangular, eccentrically pivoted piston rotates in an elliptical chamber, forming three combustion spaces that vary in volume as the piston turns.
The W is pronounced with a V sound. The engine has only three moving parts, is very small, is very powerful, and accelerates quickly since the parts rotate in one direction instead of going up and down. My brother had a Mazda that had one in it and he liked it.
You reminded me of the politician many years ago who called his opponent several names just before the election and got elected. After looking all of the words up, they were all complimentary, but they were said in a negative way.
You keep using words that compliment Ivan. Choose your words wisely.
What “free” trade, Ivan? The US has taken the losing end on trade for a few decades now. If no one answers, it’s because you haven’t a clue how to frame a question.
I really don’t think Sarah Palin (or any other individual potential candidate) is a problem.
The Republicans have a large number of potentials to run against whoever the Dems field for 2012.
I think what will happen over the coming months is a winnowing process.
As each one of these potentials fall by the wayside, the numbers for the remaining ones will bump up.
Eventually, when we have a nominee, even if it is Sarah, he/she will be quite popular.
But we are NOT at that point ….. yet.
And I’m noting that there’s a Dem talking point that seems to imply there’s something wrong with us for NOT being there yet.
No, you’re arguing from a false premise.
WHEN we are there, THEN we can talk about strength of our candidate.
Not yet.
Why must we continue to watch Palin Derangement Syndrome? First it was Bush Derangement Syndrome, then and forever Cheney.
Now these slugs must continually harp about Sarah.
She brings an honesty and vitality to the Republicans sorely lacking.
I think Sarah makes people like Ivan feel less of a man. I suspect she has the same effect on certain members of the so-called “leadership” of the Republican party. Has anybody read her piece at NRO, Senate Republicans: Vote No on New START ? What I like about it is that she identifies the real issue: “Is it in the interest of the United States?” Contrast that with the future Sen. Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s mealy-mouthed statement: Something about how he hadn’t had time to go over it yet and didn’t think the Senate should rush this through.
Who’s displaying real leadership here? Certainly not McConnell, who oh-by-the-way allowed the nationalization of the food industry last night on a voice vote!
John Cooper wrote:
I think Sarah makes people like Ivan feel less of a man.
Blah, blah, blah.
I gave $1,000 to the McCain campaign the day he selected her. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I like her, but she’s not Presidential material. She would be great as RNC head, she would raise a ton of dollars for the GOP.
If you don’t believe I donated the money, ask Aye, she’ll tell you. She knows who I am and is very adept at using google.
What is really sad is that you people are refusing to take your reality check.
She has sold us, the nation, out to the international interests.
Did you not learn anything from the last 10 years?
Lessthantolerant said,
Now these slugs must continually harp about Sarah.
What harping? I asked two simple questions, questions you people REFUSE to answer.
I’ll ask them again;
1. What do you think of the latest polls showing Palin’s negatives at all-time highs?
2. Her recent support for free-trade agreements?
What is so bad about asking these questions? Is the simple act of asking these two questions evidence of PDS? If so, doesn’t that suggest a “King has no clothes” moment?
Or have you guys become like Democratic Underground and the simple act of asking a question is heresy?
@Lessthantolerant: #16
I don’t know if Palin will run for office or if she sees a way to make a bunch of money. I do know that if the liberals would have kept their mouths shut about her after the presidential election she probably would have faded away. They haven’t realized yet that the more you complain about a person or a company, they more people get curious about them.
It didn’t work when Obama told us not to listen to Joe The Plumber, Rush Limbaugh, or Fox News, or when he told college students not to use electronic devises to get information. I still want on Obama’s hit list. I could use the attention and money I would get.
Mata said,
What “free” trade, Ivan? The US has taken the losing end on trade for a few decades now. If no one answers, it’s because you haven’t a clue how to frame a question.
Did you not see where she came out in support of two agreements?????
Am I the only one here who keeps up with what she said recently????
Wm T said,
All right Ivan, I’ll bite. What pronouncement from Sarah Palin about free trade are you talking about? Was it this week? This year? This is not a Palin for President site, and we don’t follow her every move like you do. Provide a link – you know, in the customary way that a non-troll would do.
Then give me your reaction to Hillary Clinton’s statements on free trade. Immediately.
I’m sorry, I thought that this branch of the “Palin for President” fan club was up to date on her 11/13/10 “Open letter to Republican Freshman”.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/11/13/sarah-palin-republican-freshmen-congress-election-victory-obamacare-deficit/
Here is the salient quote:
You will also have the opportunity to push job-creating free trade agreements with allies like Colombia and South Korea.
Okay, I won’t charge you for educating you about her stand on Free-trade. Don’t feel bad you didn’t know it, most people, including many here, are completely ignorant about what she really stands for.
Hilary is for free-trade and has always been for it. Terrible position.
Ivan: Hilary [sic.] is for free-trade and has always been for it. Terrible position.
Like the free trade agreement with Columbia that this administration was against?
The revised free-trade agreement with South Korea announced on Friday by the Obama administration has gotten acclaim from ………..Congressional Republicans.
Obama said on Monday that the accord would “boost our annual exports to South Korea by $11 billion” and “support at least 70,000 American jobs.”
The Obama administration has been careful to use the verb “support,” not “create.”
From Dec 7th, 2010.
So, Sarah was for this, too, right?
Does Ivan’s approach remind anybody of Assange’s?
I remember there was a crank who used to hang out in front of the university library. He was trying to get people recruited for some cult-like organization called Young Scientists for Freedom or something like that. His approach was to ask people if they knew this thing or that thing– did they know that nuclear fusion was the only answer to our energy problems, that the government was not sufficiently committed to funding it and this was because oil companies did not want fusion energy, and so on. I talked to him once – asked him if he had taken courses in physics. He said he had learned extensively on the subject of nuclear physics using the Method of Beethoven. I asked what the Method of Beethoven was, and he replied that I must not have had much of an education if I had not heard of it. Heh.
I said that I did not think anybody was going to take him seriously. He replied that MI5 and Mossad had taken his organization seriously enough to attempt assassination of its leader. Like Ivan, the disingenuous initial approach raises the hair on the back of your neck, and then if you scratch the surface, you find madness. Remember, there’s a whole lot more to Ivan than his Palin hobby.
The approach I’m talking about was summarized in a nutshell (heh) by the National Lampoon’s parodic swami Baba Rum Raisin. He began his spiel, “Everything you know, is wrong.”
I would also like to mention an insight I had one day. I don’t claim to be the brightest guy in town – most of you have probably thought of this.
If you can be gulled into doing a Google or similar search for some obscure fact, and one of the places on the web that said obscure fact is mentioned is on the web site of the person doing the gulling, they can get a hit from your search and harvest your IP address. They can tell it was you if they know that you just did the search, based on real-time or near-real-time correspondence.
Right Ivan?
Remember the story line about what a secular guy Saddam Hussein was?
Yeah, me, too.
I knew it wasn’t true when he was giving families of suicide bombers $10,000 then in 2002 upped that to $25,000.
But I missed this:
EWWwww!!!!!
I love the Word of God as much as the next Christian, but make a copy in my own blood?
I don’t THINK so!
Is there some tradition associated with doing this?
I have seen children at madrassas forced to drink the water they use to wash off their chalk boards after they spend time writing Koranic verses on it, but not this!
Wm T said:
Does Ivan’s approach remind anybody of Assange’s?
Yes, you’ve nailed me. Blown my cover. You see, in 2008, when I gave McCain $1,000 on the day he selected Palin, I gave said money just to enhance my credibility as hated her all along.
Now tell me, William, which voice in your head told you that I’m an Assange in reality?
I wonder why Ivan is so fascinated with Palin?
I wonder why he fears her so much?
lol
Ivan, you routinely insult and are obnoxious. Then you pop on here and expect a serious discussion?
What’s your problem, Ivan? Obama structured the Korean trade agreement, and has been dragging his feet on the Columbian trade agreement. Both are, in your labeling, “free trade” agreements. Why? His unions are giving him pressure. AFL-CIO is still opposing the Korean agreement, while the auto unions negotiated INRE the Korean auto surplus.
But I don’t see any specifics yet on the agreements, and the devil always lies in the details. I do, however, see a lot of labels… i.e. “free trade”… being attached without knowing the devil in those details. Until then, it’s just a trade agreement between nations that has to be ironed out for specifics.
Doesn’t much matter because either party is going to give away the American farm… as they’ve been doing for decades.
So I guess I’ll have to revert back to my original point to you… that no one responds to you because you haven’t a clue how to frame a question. Calling something “free trade”, without details, isn’t much substance. It’s just talking points. The details of NAFTA, CAFTA and the SK agreement are not apples to apples. No trade agreement is.
@Wm T Sherman: #26
I quit using Google when I found out they didn’t decorate their home page logo for Memorial Day or Veteran’s Day until the conservative blogs complained about it. If military people knew this, I am guessing they would quit using Google. Now, you have passwords and other personal info they got over WiFi from their Street View car and are storing it. They said it was a programming error. They were just finding WiFi locations. How can you ACCIDENTALLY program a computer to receive WiFi passwords and other personal info and STORE it?
The Feds were investigating it just like other countries are, until one of the Google execs had a $30,000 a plate fund raiser for the liberals and the investigation ended. Google also sells your search info to advertiser so they can target you. I live near Philadelphia and had lots of ads appear advertising stuff in the area. I wondered how they knew I was in that area.
Google also edits there search helps if they don’t want you going to certain web pages, and sometimes they will display a window that says that the web site you are trying to go to could harm your computer. Those are the ones you should go to. Google has donated millions of dollars to liberals.
There are three search engines I know of that guarantee they do not keep track of your search info. They are:
http://www.ixquick.com/
http://proxify.com/
http://www.yippy.com/
I have been using these for some time now and am very satisfied with them.
Ivan, my point of course was that your approach was similar to the one laid out in the earlier Assange romance thread, not that you are Assange.
Manipulative in a particular way.
What a stunning lack of reading comprehension. How can you establish your superiority at this rate?
@Ivan
Which poll are you talking about? Source?
Also WHO CARES WHAT THE NUMBERS ARE? Seriously we are too far away from any kind of primary, not to mention she hasn’t stated she was going to run in the first place. So this current poll you are referring is really irrelevant.
As for the support of the “Free” trade agreements of South Korea and Columbia. Again as stated by Nan G #24, the current administration supported enough to make it happen about 2 weeks after the story you quoted. Again big deal.
I don’t care that you gave $1000.00 to the McCain/Palin ticket that still doesn’t exempt you from from PDS. There are several policies and political figures that deserve much more attention than what you and the left have provided to Palin and her beliefs.
Smorg, what I’m talking about is not Google-specific. The owner of a web site can see information about search hits, hits that have occurred via any search engine. If the web site owner is clever about getting you to search for something that is very seldom searched for, and they know approximately when you must have done the search, then they will be able to tell that the IP address of a particular hit is most probably yours. The IP address can tell them roughly where your computer is located in the world, withing a few blocks. And, they can then look for other searches that occurred using that same IP address. What you search for on the internet can tell them quite a bit about you.
I’m saying, be wary about being sent on wild goose chases for obscure, seldom-searched-for information.
Wm T. #34, . . . absolutely, . . . I also noted on another post by Curt, that there are plenty of opportunities for things to go horribly wrong for users who aren’t careful.
Nan G, it’s interesting you bring that up. I knew of Saddam’s Qur’an of blood back in 2008, from Ray Robison’s “Both in One Trench” book release about the ISG/Harmony documents. Robison was one of those in Iraq in 2003, part of the ISG team, who was privvy to the contents of Saddam’s internal notes and memos.
From his book, he also made note that Saddam’s “blood” Qur’an certainly put the media/public/political cries that Saddam was reigning over a secular government into question. In other words, other that the Islamic “haraam” novelty, it’s more interesting as to the overview of the perceived secular nature of the Saddam regime.
al Douri… a trusted Saddam confident and government head honcho, was far from a nice guy, and undoubtedly very secular in his beliefs. The ensuing sections about the “blood” Qur’an are about al Douri… the men that Saddam chose to make up his supposedly “non secular” regime.
The Guardian article you linked has some interesting Iraqi observations. First, that to even have such a copy of their holy book written in such a manner was “haraam”… forbidden. Second, that as an archival item, it was too valuable to simply dispose of, even if a negative part of their history.
I think, in the world of political assessment, and in retrospect of Saddam and his potential threat to the western world… specifically targeting the US… it is just another piece in the puzzle that the claims that Saddam was “contained” or harmless because he was not “secular” are simply horse manure. Smoking gun? Nope… but definitely a warm, recently fired firearm.
BTW, Robison’s read, released prior to the Pentagon Perspective reports, is a seriously good read. Obviously an author ahead of his time in interpretative analysis… as was his job with ISG. While few care about historical retrospect, I highly recommend reading this one. Takes the political spin off of alternative universe paths…. i.e., could the nation afford allowing Saddam to continue his underground, off the grid alliances with terrorist groups?
I remember steam locomotives from my early childhood; the trailing smoke; the distant sounds of chuffing and whistles carrying across frozen fields on a cold winter night. I was born at the end of that era, as steam locomotives were rapidly giving way to electric/diesel locomotives. Back then, most midwestern towns of any size still had their railroad depots. Passenger trains were a routine means of travel. Radio was the media of the day. Telephone booths were everywhere. People wrote letters by hand which they mailed for the price of a 3-cent stamp, and quick communication at a distance often involved a telegraph office. Much of the daily-use technology we now take for granted existed only in science fiction.
I wish I could revisit that era for a week or two. If I could, I’m not entirely sure I’d use my return trip ticket.
@Wm T Sherman: #34
Thanks for the extra info. The only thing info about me will tell anyone is that I go to mostly conservative web sites.
@Greg: #37
If you are near Mt. Pleasant, Iowa in September, you can go back in time at the Old Threshers Reunion. I am sure other states do the same thing.
http://www.oldthreshers.com/
I know one woman who took a wagon train vacation and lived like the earlier settlers.
WhenI was a kid, I was a locomotive fireman for awhile in Cheyene, District 4. The 3900′s were a 4-6-6-4, and the 4000′s were 4-8-8-4 and weighted a cool 1,000,000 pounds.
Wm T. Sherman:
Manipulative in a particular way.
I asked two very, very simple questions about the woman’s policy statement and the recent polling.
I was curious, as you people tend to support her, what you thought of her stand on Free Trade and the recent polling.
The fact you couldn’t answer these simple questions mean she’s nothing more than personality cult here.
Is she better than Obama? Sure, but that isn’t saying much.
Could not answer? No, chose not to. As I pointed out, if you want to be a disingenuous, insulting crank one day, don’t expect that history to be disregarded if you suddenly start trying to act normal the next day.
Asking for opinions about one small section of all knowledge, while being obscure about what aspect of it is meant, and immediately jumping to condemnation for not providing what you would consider a satisfactory answer, is exactly the M.O. of that crank who wasted his hours promoting the nuclear fusion cult . Like him, you didn’t really want an answer. You just wanted to begin shaking the belief system of the people you are addressing. You should be better informed about exactly what a belief system is, before you start trying to undermine it. You are the Palin obsessive here, not me.
Polling: it does not mean much this far from the election. The election is two years away. Recovering from low poll numbers happens all the time. Also, as I pointed out, and which you ignored, this is not a Palin for President site. There are varying degrees of support for her candidacy. I don’t even have a distinct point of view yet.
Trade: You did not provide a link to exactly what you were referring to until asked. That is a bad sign. When I went to the link you provided about the trade agreement statement, what I found was a fairly long essay that deep in the middle, very briefly gave favorable mention to new free trade agreements with South Korea and Columbia.
I haven’t read the agreements. What’s wrong with them? Is free trade simply a bad thing? Or, do they claim to promote free trade but not really do so?
You no doubt recall the Smoot-Hawley tariff bill from the Great Depression. It is generally blamed for making things worse. What’s your position on that? Want to go against the grain?
WTS said:
Could not answer? No, chose not to.
Smart man! No sense in defending the indefensible.
So Ivan – don’t you support Free Trade or would you prefer if nations stopped trading between each other – or ramp up import tariffs and watch as other countries do the same which leads to trade wars and where value for money on goods & choice declines and the losers are the consumer.
@Gaffer:
You should be aware going in that Ivan is a loon.
@Aye
Maybe I’m wrong but I always thought the one thing conservatives and economic/classic liberals should agree on is the benefits of free trade. Of course Mata is right that the devil is in the detail and any country needs to ensure that they get a good agreement but I believe protectionism is counterproductive and often shores up inefficient businesses.
@Gaffer:
You’re correct…the devil is in the details and it’s important for the participants in trade agreements to hold out for the best possible deal that they can get.
Protectionism is not good and those, like Ivan, who appear prepared to push for such ideas are living in a long gone era which is totally disconnected from the realities of a global economy.
As I said, Ivan is a loon on this and many other issues.
First you accuse everyone here of being “Palin for Prez” fanatics, when that subject hasn’t come up in this thread. And in fact, one can admire a conservative woman and her unquestionable power amongst voters without preconceived notions INRE her 2012 nominee status. Palin isn’t my first choice.. and I don’t know who my first choice is yet. I’m still in wait and watch mode for a real conservative leader. The next year will reveal much.
But I will add, when you consider that all the pundits are talking about Romney, I’d welcome Palin over Romney any day. Don’t need Mr. “I stand with the Kennedy’s on wind farms and I love health care mandates” Romney on the ticket… a move that I guarantee you will drive me to a 3rd party vote in a heartbeat. I’m tired of voting between rocks and hard places.
Secondly, as I have pointed out to you at least twice, you aren’t asking a question, you are merely parroting talking point phrases. I understand you’re a PaulBot. But you can’t point out anything in any of the trade agreements specifically, and therefore any debate you try to instigate… just because you throw out the hip phrase, “free trade”…. is utterly meaningless. As I said, you lumped both the SK and Columbian agreements under your “free trade” talking point umbrella, and yet they aren’t the same in the details. And, in fact, Obama helped construct one with some union support, and opposes the other. Obviously, they have some major differences in specifics that you prefer to blanket over with buzz words.
This is actually somewhat amusing because I’m probably the prime person here to be closest to your protectionist PaulBot personality on these issues. But then, you may have gleaned that I’m not a fan of these one way trade agreements when I said to you, what “free trade”? It’s “free” for other countries, but cost this country quite a bit.
Mr. Aye Chi: I’m well aware we live in a global economy… (for those that will be angry with me, again, wandering off the traditional “conservative” reservation)…. but we are far beyond the point where we are financially capable of absorbing tariffs for our exports, and allowing imports from the same countries to flood thru the door tariff free.
But… I don’t give a whit about Palin’s endorsement, the GOP endorsement, or anything else on these agreements. As I said, both parties will give away the American farm… just as they’ve been doing for decades. That is just as sure as both parties are going to spend this country into it’s demise. We’ve already learned, in under two months from a major midterm election, that the difference between the two parties is just a hair’s breadth. With Dems, we die by slashing the wrists. With the GOP, we die from the thousand cuts.
I guess, if I’m trying to live the rest of my life under anything that resembles the country of my childhood, the death from a thousand cuts is the only choice. But it is not one I choose with my heart. And I draw the line at Romney.
Mata, #49
Well said. The question of trade is infinitely more complex than the MSM or trolls pretend. It is almost impossible to read anything on trade that delineates each situation effectively. The challenge rests in the fact that most trade relationships of significance between major nations, hold threads of dependence on parameters outside “trading.”
America’s principal trading “partners,” (a mostly inappropriate term) vary widely and no two can be treated the same way. For example, China absolutely cannot and should not be treated with the same broad brush as Canada or Japan. . . . Some trolls demonstrate lack of any insight when attempting to bait for one or the other side of the inane “Free Trader / Protectionist” fulcrum.
The answer to these decisions and to all ensuing such negotiations rests, as in most of the big National questions, on Leadership.
Who do we want defending our interests at the negotiating table making critical, incisive decisions? Do we want someone with self confidence, and broad experience? Or do we want an inexperienced wimp? Personally, I’ve got all the time in the world for someone who can grasp the deeper elements of a situation, and make assertive, determined decisions, even if that individual occasionally makes a mistake.
The current leadership is not respected by anyone of consequence. From Beijing to Moscow, the rolling eyeballs are tiresome, but they provide a measure of the disintegrating respect the world has for the Administration. America may be suffering from an extended recession, but it is still China’s most important customer, for example, and that relationship should be negotiated with more “attitude” than the pathetic stance that has been taken recently, by Obama, Geithner, (I still can’t believe this drip hasn’t been turfed) and Clinton.
The learning curve on World Trade is a very steep one if All You Know came from Marx, Engels and Mao’s Little Red Book. Trade agreements are both Economic and Diplomatic tools from what I know. So far Team Obama got punked on those that are of His Regime’s creation.
So the Nation will continue the Trade Deficit, Manufacturing will continue to enrich our Partners as Industry in the US will flee both over regulation and taxation. As the jobs go away, Unions lose bargaining chips.
A WIN/WIN for China and Asia as a whole and the US takes it on the chin exponentially. Economic Illiterates, Academic Buffoons and folks that never ran a business for a Profit on the US side but negotiate Agreements and Treaties continue to blunder on…much to our detriment.
OT: This one hurts, it is hard to fight when you are already on your knees.
@ Skookum, You can thank that 53% of the American Voters that ‘selected’ this POTUS, the 110th and 111th Congress and the Ill Educated, Under Experienced Team of Idiots that Obama put in place to do his dirty work at making the US a Second Rate Nation. Not a ONE of them ever ran a business for a profit but know how to wreck what we have left…
I’m very Proud to be an American but very ashamed that it has come to this. While Obama re-arranges the deck chairs on the Titanic I just wonder what the Voters were thinking of, IF they thought at all in 2006 and 2008. Bush appointed Bernanke and I fault him big time for that. But this is not a joke…
How about some music to go with that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5le92UmPmU
Yeah, I have a sense of humor but this nonsense has gone too far now. Stuck in Brussels, Belgium right now. Big Snow. Nothing is flying in or out…
JR in his eloquent way painted the picture too well in his posting. I concur with him 100%.
It’s 1:37AM CST. I’m watching the eclipse of the moon. The sky is hazy and the moon is now completely shadowed by the earth. What a strange end to a strange year.
@Skookum: #52
You have to look at it from Obama’s point of view. He is winning on this one. Another step DOWN for the USA on its way to surrendering ALL of our freedoms.
Old Trooper 2 “Stuck in Brussels,”
As you patiently submit to the Belgian version of Global Warming, here’s a little more music to endure the blizzard with:
Driving Home For Christmas . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uey6VktC5ms&feature=fvw
And, . . . can’t help it, a classic – The Road To Hell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abZlWqVeLzg&feature=fvsr
. . . Just some of the gems I was listening to as I was writing. Safe travel.
@KansasGirl: #54
I’ve been watching it too. One advantage of being retired and a night owl. I think this is the first one I have seen.
OT, I worked for a straight man in his fifties today, one of the few in my group. He was born in Mexico City, his father was groom at a stable for jumpers, so he had early exposure to horses. he rode in a Wild West Vacquero group and traveled all over the world performing trick riding like the old time wild west shows. At some point he became a US citizen and has been self-employed as a trainer ever since. One of my friends.
He quoted a poll today that stated that over 40% of Americans don’t know the difference between Washington DC and the state of Washington. He was indignant, he maintained that this was his adopted country and he made an effort to learn a great deal about the country, but these natural born Americans went to school here and yet they were so stupid. I had to admire the man and yet feel ashamed at the state of our natural born and educated (so-called educated) citizenry.
These people vote like sheep being led to the abattoir killing floor.
Anyway, when I have been snowed in, I always tried to make the best of the situation. A few shots of good Irish Whiskey will help you see the brighter side and I am sure there are a few cigars available at the Hotel.
There’s a lot of work that needs to be done back home, not only at the ranch, but in the rest of the country as well. The words of OT are always held in high regard. The snow will clear and the planes will fly. Sit back and enjoy the Montana weather in Brussels. Best Regards, Skook.
Smorgasbord: When you are on your knees, you are vulnerable to say the least. Your best punch is an uppercut right to the groin. I promise to let some loose.
@Skookum: #58
I don’t understand how someone can be born in Illinois, go through Illinois schools, listen to Illinois radio and TV stations, but don’t know how to pronounce their state’s name.
One time on The Carol Burnett show, when she was taking questions, one person started out with, “I’m from Illinoissss….” Carol interrupted him and very seriously said, “That’s Illinois.” The crowd erupted in laughter for some time, and he didn’t finish his question.
@Skookum: #59
If you haven’t got any specific targets for those uppercuts, I have a list you can start with, but you will have to get past the Secret Service first.
@MataHarley:
I have never counted you as part of what I would call the “Protectionist” camp either.
The position that you have taken, a position that I hold as well, is that trade agreements must be as advantageous to us, the US, as possible. We must do what we can, where we can, to make sure that the interests of the US are preserved. We must tilt the balance back in our favor rather than just giving away the store.
Unfortunately, we’ve got our asses in a financial crack with China now…so we don’t really have much leverage with them on trade issues at the moment.
Ivan, on the other hand, seems to be in the “swing the door shut and padlock it” crowd.
That position is not going to serve us well which is what the crux of my comment was in #48.
@Aye: #62
Another thing we need to address is the quality of stuff we send overseas. Many years ago I had a milk route and one farmer told me he had to buy equipment to filter the grain so the elevator only got grain, but the elevator could add 10% dunnage to the grain and ship it overseas. This is how some got rid of their rotten grain, or they would add rocks and other junk.
Japan got tired of it and started coming to the USA and buying up elevators so they could buy and ship their own grain so they would get only what they paid for. I don’t know if the 10% dunnage rule has been changed, but American business is known to get whatever they want from the politicians.
It used to be that if it said “Made In USA” on it, it was the best you could buy. Now, foreign countries are known for the best quality of a lot of products. One thing we should do is make it mandatory that we give the customer what they paid for.
@Smorgasbord:
That’s kind of like Des Moines radio, some pronounce the the s. Or, in Missouri some say Missourah. Being from Illinois and moving to Missouri, it’s a little jolt when hearing it pronounced differently. Another one…… “Eye”talians.
About the eclipse, next one is in 94 years, we missed it last night, will have to wait for the next one.
@Missy: #64
You have an idea what it was like for me traveling all over the country as a truck driver. The ones I felt sorry for were the immigrants who came here, learned the language, then moved to a part of the country with a different accent and took their accent with them.
I grew up about 45 minutes from Des Moines so I heard how it was pronounced and was surprised when I started hearing others mispronounce it. By the way, Des Moines was a famous Indian Chief, and a lot of towns and counties have Indian names. I guess they want to be called Native Americans, so I try to oblige.
I had to deliver in Eau Clare WI and found out I was pronouncing it wrong. It is French, and the Eau is pronounced “oh.”
I had to pick up a load in Louisville IN. When I called for directions I mentioned I didn’t know there was a Lou–e–ville Indiana. The man politely but strongly said, “That’s louis–ville.” A river separates the two different pronunciations.
I missed the first part of the eclipse, but I am a night owl, so stepped out often to watch the rest of it. Even if I make it to 159 years old, I doubt that I will know what is going on around me, let alone outside.
Just as I have always said, it is quite easy to talk about cutting spending in the abstract, but much tougher to do it in real life. Reporters are finally acknowledging the obvious: GOPer cons like to spend lots of money!
Smorgasbord, not only have you and me never seen this before, we will never see it again. On a serious note, Merry Christmas to what I consider friends.
#66,
Now there’s a very tired, overused, but telling phrase.
That verbiage lays bare and betrays an ego in constant need of approval, that actually never gets it, so has to “provide” its own recognition of nimble cleverness, allthewhile pleading for attention.
What follows the use of such desperate utterance, is almost always meaningless, is never original, and rarely solicits the attention is craves.
. . . Insightful addition to the dialogue, . . . thanks.
ya know, @Billy Bob, I’ll agree that the GOP are also spenders. But when it comes to the mother (fill in the blanks here) spending party of all time… most especially the political party architects of the social welfare justice nanny nation with SS and Medicare ponzi schemes today… I will accept no lectures from you.
Hmmm…looks like we have many proponents of “Free Trade” here on FA. Interesting….let’s see what Karl Marx had to say about Free Trade, shall we?
Under the freedom of trade the whole severity of the laws of political economy will be applied to the working classes. Is that to say that we are against Free Trade? No, we are for Free Trade, because by Free Trade all economical laws, with their most astounding contradictions, will act upon a larger scale, upon a greater extent of territory, upon the territory of the whole earth; and because from the uniting of all these contradictions into a single group, where they stand face to face, will result the struggle which will itself eventuate in the emancipation of the proletarians.
Engels, To Free Trade Congress at Brussels (1847)
So, yeah, I’m a bit surprised that FA would be home to the very philosophy that Karl “Communist” Marx advocated.
And of course Palin just echos him by supporting the failed religion.
I love this quote, so prophetic. Especially when one looks at the terrible decline of the US since we’ve adopted all these free trade agreements in the 1990s.
What is free trade, what is free trade under the present condition of society? It is freedom of capital. When you have overthrown the few national barriers which still restrict the progress of capital, you will merely have given it complete freedom of action. …
But, in general, the protective system of our day is conservative, while the free trade system is destructive. It breaks up old nationalities and pushes the antagonism of the proletariat and the bourgeoisie to the extreme point. In a word, the free trade system hastens the social revolution. It is in this revolutionary sense alone, gentlemen, that I vote in favor of free trade.
Marx & Engels, On Free Trade (1848)
Still for “Free trade” FAs?
Lawdy, Ivan… your spin is not only tiresome, you don’t even have a clue as to the hip talking points you bandy about.
Free trade, by definition, is where goods are imported, exported, stored etc without government imposition of tariffs for duties. Whether it’s our government, or the trading partner’s government.
This, of course, means there really are no “free trade” agreements. Instead, the buzz word has been morphed to mean that either/both of the trading partners agrees to to lift most or all tariffs, quotas, special fees and taxes. Therein lies the devil in the details in all treaties. Which trading partner is lifting “most or all” of these fees? And is it a balanced agreement?
That you wish to play games with what is really a non existent entity, and then blanket all the rest with the same buzz word, indicates you aren’t much worthy of paying attention to in this field. But we’ll all get a laugh that you PaulBots consider us “marxists” when we do decide to look at that details for each agreement, instead of accepting your hip phraseology.
@Ivan
Isn’t that oldest trick you are using from the poor logic thinker’s book?
Karl Marx favoured free trade
Karl Marx epoused communism
Communism is evil
Therefore free trade is evil
I supposed therefore all vegetarians are meglomanics because Hitler didn’t eat meat?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy
Mata said:
This, of course, means there really are no “free trade” agreements. Instead, the buzz word has been morphed to mean that either/both of the trading partners agrees to to lift most or all tariffs, quotas, special fees and taxes.
Ha! Just keep telling yourself that over and over and eventually even you’ll begin to believe it.
But, in general, the protective system of our day is conservative, while the free trade system is destructive.
K. Marx, On Free Trade
Ivan, maybe you should spend less time studying what seems to be your mentor, Marx, and more times studying American History. We’ve never had a “free trade” agreement in our life as a Republic. Early days, it was tariffs. Later we had reciprocal trade agreements… most of which favored the burgeoning American businessman. And, in fact, up until WWI, it was the largest source of federal revenue, and a Constitutional power.
After that, it was the libs, who controlled both the chambers of Congress for the majority sessions, who were giving away the American farm with badly constructed trade agreements. As I said, we’ve been on the losing end of the reciprocal terms for decades now.
Only an idiot (ahem…. if the shoe fits, in reference to you) would assume that all trade agreements are equal or identical in terms, or genuinely “free” in the absolute meaning of the phrase. Therefore if you want to discuss what part of the SK or Columbian treaty is “free trade”… ala where either the US or trading partner is actually lifting their tariffs and duties on a particular product… you might have a conversation and a debate. Other than that, the devil lies in the details, and you’re just playing silly “the meaning of is… ‘is’… “ games. Obviously you know of no specifics on either treaty to dispute, so you merely find marxist quotes to lift…. which really isn’t anything constructive in it’s foundation. You fool no one here. But you do bore us to tears…. LOL
I believe that it would be seriously beneficial for the FA readership if it could be gifted with a single example of free trade between the U.S. and any serious trading partner.
We might then learn something of the meaning of free trade in its absolute definition.
Statement: America has no Free Trade partner(s)
Counterclaim: . . . . hmm, not so much
Now, back to Marx and Engels…….
@Ivan: You said:
Look at the Marx quote you used. You only bolded part of it, I am assuming because you think it made your point.
Your quote with your emphasis:
Now if you bother to read the entire quote and try to understand it, Marx was calling for anarchy. He wasn’t really interested in the “emancipation of the proletarians.” He was endorsing the break down of all governments so that his precious communism could take hold.
And you pride yourself on quoting him??
Really?
Anti said:
Now if you bother to read the entire quote and try to understand it, Marx was calling for anarchy. He wasn’t really interested in the “emancipation of the proletarians.” He was endorsing the break down of all governments so that his precious communism could take hold.
And you pride yourself on quoting him??
Really?
Open your eyes, Anti. All these free trade agreements have brought the chaos Marx predicted they would.
Did you forget the part I highlighted where he said that Free Trade was destructive???’
Marx was prophetic, an ass, but he understood revolutionary forces and what has happened to our nation since the “Free trade 90s” has been nothing less than destructive.
Obviously you know of no specifics on either treaty to dispute, so you merely find marxist quotes to lift…. which really isn’t anything constructive in it’s foundation. You fool no one here. But you do bore us to tears…. LOL
So tell us, have these “free trade” agreements been constructive or destructive to the US economy?
Do you prefer the America during Bush’s tenure, with NAFTA, GATT, WTO and the , or the America under the protectionist era of Ronald Reagan?
Who here can argue that the US had a better economy in the 2001-2009 era over that of 1981 to 1989???
Mata said”
After that, it was the libs, who controlled both the chambers of Congress for the majority sessions, who were giving away the American farm with badly constructed trade agreements. As I said, we’ve been on the losing end of the reciprocal terms for decades now.
Wait, NAFTA was passed only because REPUBLICANS wanted it! Come on Mata, don’t let the facts get in the way of you telling a good lie now.
From wiki:
the House of Representatives approved NAFTA on November 17, 1993, by a vote of 234 to 200. The agreement’s supporters included 132 Republicans and 102 Democrats. NAFTA passed the Senate 61-38. Senate supporters were 34 Republicans and 27 Democrats. Clinton signed it into law on December 8, 1993; it went into effect on January 1, 1994.[2][3]
So yeah, the libs “controlled” both chambers, but it was due to the Republican internationalists that NAFTA became law.
So these “badly conducted” trade agreements were passed due to REPUBLICAN sell-outs.
So, care to admit you didn’t know it was due to the Republicans? Or, were you just spinning?
Ivan still stubbornly sez:
As I’ve repeatedly pointed out to you, we’ve not had a “free trade” agreement in American history. We imposed tariffs, to our fiscal advantage all the way up to WWI. After that, we’ve engaged in “reciprocal trade agreements”…. where both trading parties agreed to waive or less taxes/duties in the agreement.
My suggestion is you take up James Raider’s challenge in #76, and give us an example of any “free trade” agreement the US has been a party to in our history. Other that that, what we have is lots of badly negotiated “reciprocal trade agreements”.
Now, while you’d like to attempt to bait me with what you believe is a “gotcha moment”, I might remind you of, again, my repetitive comments… reiterated below:
Perhaps, with it all in your face in one combo comment, you might figure out that I’m no fan of most of the “one world global” type reciprocal agreements that have transpired over the decades. Nor to I confine them to just the treaties you mention, since I’ve watched the exodus of steel mills, aluminum, brass and textile industries since the 70s. Why? Friendlier corporate digs elsewhere.
But I’m not so uninformed to assume that because any pundit or pol uses the hip phrase, “free trade” (much to their own ignorance), that all these agreements are equal. Nor do we get much of a say in what’s going in there…. same beltway arrogance as usual.
INRE my comment about Dem domination historically over Congress… even you might be able to wander over to Wikipedia and learn what years what parties controlled Congress. And in 1993, they controlled both chambers… as they’ve done thru most of the period from 1950.
Will there be GOPers who sign on to badly negotiated reciprocal trade agreements? But of course. Do they have the numbers to stop them, or hold out for better terms? Nope. And of course I know that there are members of both parties that vote, at any given time, across party lines. Not only for treaties, but for all kinds of legislation. What a stupid argument. You really must deal with amoebae in your daily life…..
And one more time… did I think it was better that some GOPers voted for a bad agreement? Nope. Because, as I said, both parties will continue to give away the American farm, as they’ve done for decades. Do try to read that, and my other comments above slowly. You might get a clue.
Now… where’s that example of the US engaging in a “free trade” agreement?
Hey…I see that Ivan is still desparately splashing about in the deep end of the pool.
Remember when Ivan told us that Marx loved the idea of “Free Trade”?
Turns out that’s not all that Marx had to say on the matter….
Did you see that part in bold there? “Free Trade” is a “single, unconscionable freedom”.
Calling it an “unconscionable freedom” doesn’t sound like a supportive position to me…
Hmmmmm….it seems that Ivan and Marx agree.
Yeah, I’m a bit surprised that Ivan would be espousing the very philosophy that Karl “Communist” Marx advocated.
This deserves it’s own comment response. Because again, like you prefer to use a blanket label of all “reciprocal trade agreements” as “free trade”, despite the fact that the details in each treaty differ, you now compare two economic eras as if they were apples to apples.
In the 1980s, we were recovering from not only Carter economic policies, but beginning to feel the serious effects of the nanny Medicare ponzi scheme that started adding seniors to the benefits in the decade before. In other words, using small words for you, we were attempting to climb out of a recession, and just embarking on the inevitable spiral down for Medicare spending.
On the other hand, Clinton enjoyed two bubble economies. First the dot com, that was beginning it’s burst near the end of his 2nd term, and the onset of the housing bubble ramping up at the same time. In other words, again using small words, the wind was in his economic sails.
Despite that, Clinton’s tax policies still resulted in a declining trend of federal revenue loss as compared to the GDP, where Reagan’s tax policies were a slow upward trend in ratio to the GDP. You might want to say that Reagan played a tennis match against a pro, in fit condition, and fared quite well despite losing, while Clinton played a match against a blind tennis player, having every advantage, and still lost the game. He left us in a recession…. albeit more mild than Carter’s.
The magic fiscal era of Clinton was the result of dangerous bubbles, combined with a GOP Congress who actually did reign in spending. And as we all know historically, all bubbles are doomed to burst. And virtually every Congressional session always results in increased spending and expansion of government.
Thus it becomes notable that, since 1950, the control of both chambers of Congress have been overwhelmingly Democrat controlled. Whether a slim majority, or supermajority, they are still a majority with the power of the nation’s purse and further expansion of federal authority in their pockets.
Ivan, your using Marx as your whipping boy to make your insipid point is bad enough. But then you point to a Democratically controlled Congress passing NAFTA with STRONG bipartisan support and yet you say that the GOP pushed it through.
Mata was right. You spin like a drunken DJ.
@Ivan:
For those days when you find yourself in over your head:
Was it worth it?
http://bigpeace.com/edonnelly/2010/12/19/dont-ask-dont-tell-repeal-congress-ignores-combat-troops/
If the amount of troops lost to DADT is accurate, we will no longer be a military power by the end of 2011. Was it worth it?
Don’t put those around your ankles Ivan or you defeat the purpose.
Very colorful water wings there, Aye… LOL
I guess Ivan finds himself siding with the anti-NAFTA progressive Dems, the unions, etal. Problem is, with Clinton furiously pushing it, after adding his environmental and labor supplements, the progressive/union wing of the Dem party weren’t going to be able to wield control over their Blue Dog peers. The big 2008 election talking point was to attempt to renegotiate the enviro and labor agreements. Of course, forcing both Mexico and Canada to adhere to US union and enviro standards would pretty much make them just as uncompetitive as we are, and all of us would turn to China and cheaper labor countries for affordable product.
What really becomes interesting, in retrospect, is that it really didn’t make that much of an economic impact, nor reverse the trend of declining US industrial power. While it did add manufactuing jobs, automation was already limiting that growth anyway. Plus increasing overhead and US corporate taxes were driving industry to other more competitive conditions. All in all, as a CFR analysis from 2009 notes, neither the pro or con forces really win the debate as to it’s effectiveness. Yes, NAFTA accounts for about 80% of Mexico and Canada’s trade, and about a third of the US trade. But did the treaty actually encourage that? Or would it have happened anyway?
Skookum
86
I know there were some in the military saying, if you can’t deal with homosexuals beside you in the service then you can leave, BUT I wonder if that is really going to be an allowable reason to quit the service?
There are stop-loss rules that kick in if not enough men and women sign up, forcing soldiers to stay extra time.
I just can’t believe they would let anyone who wants to leave go.
Nan, Adm Mullen was responsible for that declaration on several occasions; however, he can make the option extremely distasteful by using Bad Conduct and Dishonorable Discharges. That will slow the expected loss of trained troops and still allow him to pontificate like a true politician. It is undeniable that it will slow enlistments, especially if young men are going to be considered gay if they enlist. Don’t laugh, it is hard to anticipate the social fallout from this move and one of the main reasons for young men to enlist is to find the true meaning of manhood. When you take that away with the vision of serving and sleeping with homosexuals, the dynamics will change very quickly.
Democrats have been anti-military for decades, Liberals and Progressives even more so, this is another means to weaken our military and take away the pride of service and esprit de corps.
They are killing more than one bird with this stone. It Allows BO to fulfill his campaign promise to the Gay Machine and contributes to the weakening of the US military; thus there is a win win situation for the Democrats as they begin to reform their coalitions for 2011. They have now managed to impress the Gays and the Socialists who always seek to weaken the military.
Texting code for Seniors:
ATD: At The Doctor’s
BFF: Best Friend Farted
BTW: Bring The Wheelchair
BYOT: Bring Your Own Teeth
CBM: Covered By Medicare
CUATSC: See You At The Senior Center
DWI: Driving While Incontinent
FWB: Friend With Beta Blockers
FWIW: Forgot Where I Was
FYI: Found Your Insulin
GGPBL: Gotta Go, Pacemaker Battery Low!
GHA: Got Heartburn Again
HGBM: Had Good Bowel Movement
IMHO: Is My Hearing-Aid On?
LMDO: Laughing My Dentures Out
LOL: Living On Lipitor
LWO: Lawrence Welk’s On
OMMR: On My Massage Recliner
OMSG: Oh My! Sorry, Gas.
ROFL… CGU: Rolling On The Floor Laughing… And Can’t Get Up
SGGP: Sorry, Gotta Go Poop
TTYL: Talk To You Louder
WAITT: Who Am I Talking To?
WTFA: Wet The Furniture Again
WTP: Where’s The Prunes?
WWNO: Walker Wheels Need Oil
A VERY ZOMBIE HOLIDAY (Instructional video)
Sent to me by some folks from my old Unit outside Kandahar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UqEhUm2B_8&feature=player_embedded#!
A couple of Fine NCOs from the J-2 Shop, Air Force and Navy Intel Anylists that don’t own
a Flash Drive. Both Female. One from Casper,Wyoming the other from Spokane, Washington.
Priorities…too much time on their hands most likely…but they love Skookum’s ‘tells’ of Life in the Real World.
Ivan, who did you vote for in 2008?
Water Wings on the ankles can be tricky, for sure they aren’t for the faint heated or weak minded among us. Nerves of steel and a steady hand are required, if you intend on leaving the wading pool and hanging out in the deep water. It really isn’t all that tough, if you are ready to face what life has to pass out. If you can swim in the deep water with the water wings around your ankles and survive, you will be accepted in a small fraternity of ankle water wing survivors; opportunities will open up for you and you will rarely need to buy your own whiskey.
I say go for it, the worst that can happen is that you will be buried at the deep end of the pool.
Kansas:
I voted for McCain/Palin.
@KansasGirl: #96
I was off of the computer to have a free Christmas dinner with my brother. It only cost me fuel for 2,400 miles round trip, tolls, and motel room. Pretty good deal.
The eclipse is like other events that my kids were too young to remember. I try to remind them sometimes that they were alive when they happened. Haley’s Comet is an example.