While it would have been wiser to leave the 2,000 American troops in Syria longer, both to ensure ISIS’s demise and to protect the Kurds, and while the administration benefited greatly from Secretary James Mattis’s restoration of deterrence, which merited him a much longer tenure, the hysteria over the withdrawal of troops and the unfortunate resignation of Mattis as something end-of-the-world devastating and historically unprecedented is as weird as it is incoherent.
First, we should remember that earlier General Mattis did not resign from the Obama administration; he was summarily and without much cause fired — reportedly without a phone call, causing outrage in January 2013 from many who now see his resignation as unprecedented.
Two, defense secretaries, given the nature of the job, have historically sometimes had short tenures. Harry Truman and Barack Obama each had four different secretaries, many of whom were controversial and at odds with their bosses. At some point, policy differences outnumber agreements, and secretaries resign or are forced to resign. The list of defense secretaries who departed either in less than harmonious scenarios, or for a variety of reasons after only a few months, includes a pantheon of American luminaries, from George Marshall to Donald Rumsfeld, Leon Panetta, and Elliot Richardson.
Three, earlier this year Mattis was the subject of a lot of curious stories quoting appraisals of him as “bulletproof,” given that despite his numerous disagreements with Trump (reportedly on getting out of the Paris climate accord, moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem, quitting the Iran deal, transgender soldiers, etc. ), he still was seen as invaluable to the president, who had given him, according to Washington conventional wisdom, unusual latitude and exemption to focus on rebuilding the military and reestablishing deterrent policies.
Four, earlier this year Trump had promised to put troops into Syria to finish up destroying ISIS for “six months.” So his deadline was not really much of a surprise, although most had thought, given the success of the mission, that a continued presence would be in the country’s and the administration’s interests.
Suddenly liberals want our troops fighting in every region of the world. Cindy Sheehan must be totally confused.
What hysteria? The crap the media whips up from noting? There is only mind-numbing meddling.
Just dump the eggnog down the sink, fill your carton with something you actually like, group think, herd mentality only says you have to drink that goo.
If some numbed idiot says we must stay ask them why.
October 7, 2019 – Trump makes way for Turkish operation in Syria
That was then. This is now. We just abandoned the Kurds again.
The Kurds spearheaded the campaign that drove ISIS from the region. Not only are we abandoning them to their fate again, now that we no longer need them—we’re taking full credit for what they did against ISIS.
This will likely serve as a valuable lesson to anyone who might consider throwing in with us in the future. Our nation’s loyalty can be counted on only for so long as you’re useful. The moment you become a liability, you’re history.
@Greg: Obama should never have gotten us involved in Syria. Of course, he should never have created ISIS, either. We’ve destroyed ISIS (no thanks to Obama) and can draw back from conflicts.
Look at the date of the article, something tells me the US has told the Kurds hey dudes we are out of here. Turkey wants to dump its Syrian refugees there. This isnt sudden nor surprising.
@Deplorable Me:
Syria is where ISIS was. Obama didn’t create ISIS, any more than Trump defeated it. ISIS was established in 2006. It became powerful because of the failure to reintegrate Saddam’s professional military back into Iraq’s new power structure.
October 7, 2019 – ‘A stain on America’s honor’: Lindsey Graham says Trump’s Syria pullout abandons Kurds, helps ISIS
Pardon me, but WTF?
Yeah, he actually said that.
@Greg: If they go after the Kurds we will crush them financially.
When did you become worried about the Kurds?
Did the Obama administration back the Kurds when he pulled out?
Oct 03, 2014 · Obama refuses to provide the Kurds weapons to defend themselves. The worst part about Obama’s actions is that he forbids any allies from assisting as well . Which would effectively assist in the genocide of Christians in the region.
When and how does this ever end?
Following Donald’s example, they’d probably just declare bankruptcy. Everything seems to be about money.
Since we abandoned them in 1991 to the gentle mercies of Saddam Hussein.
@Greg:
Yes his using mustard gas on the villages, seeing that demon hanged was especially satisfying.
There needs to be a Kurdistan as promised in 1919.
@Greg:
Thanks to Obama’s brilliance, ISIS grew 4700% after he pulled US troops out of Iraq. ISIS being in Syria is THANKS to Obama. Plus, Syria’s problems began with the Arab Spring and Muslim Brotherhood, both supported by Obama. Syria had a civil war; nothing about it was our issue. Yes, after Obama released ISIS, we went in and destroyed them. We’re done.
Eventually, all of Obama’s messes will be cleaned up. This is another one of them.
@Deplorable Me: ISIS ideology cannot be destroyed its encouraged by Iran. Spreading like a cancer through all of Northern Africa.
@kitt: Absolutely true. Civilized people will be fighting radical Islamic ideology and terrorism from now on, probably.
This man is delusional. I’ll leave it to the professionals to put a more specific tag on it. I’ll just generalize and observe that his words and behavior aren’t indicative of consistently rational thinking. He probably shouldn’t have keys to the family car, let alone the nation’s nuclear launch codes.
Hopefully his party will do an intervention regarding the Kurds. A lot of good economic retaliation will do, if Turkey decides on a permanent solution to their Kurdish problem.
@Greg: The message wasn’t meant for Americans or Europeans but to translation to another language and culture.
Yuppers to us it does sound a bit strange.
I think somehow we will support the Kurds.
Its long past time for a different approach.
In Somalia since Clinton, in Afghanistan and Iraq since Bush. There are military bases close that can be of assistance, no longer arming Obamas “freedom fighters” ie ISIL, choking the largest funder of terrorism Iran., they have huge internal issues.
@Greg: His wisdom was certainly unmatched by Obama. Trump is a leader and Obama was a self-serving idiot afraid to make a move without evaluating how the political repercussions affected HIM. Thus, he calculated his short-term media support for pulling all our troops out of Iraq would outweigh the destructive force of allowing ISIS to grow 4700% and murder hundreds of thousands. In essence, Trump is smart, Obama is stupid.
@kitt: I am all for helping people who support us, but let us remember how thankful and loyal the Taliban was after we helped them kick the Russians out of Afghanistan.
@Deplorable Me: The Kurds are not anything like the taliban. Russia should have been dealt with by Carter for invading Afghanistan, he couldnt even rescue our people from a US embassy. China now has its claws in the Panama canal due to his “policies”. He is a nice old man with a worthy charity. Much damage was done behind his back by the NWO progressives, Reagan had daddy CIA Bush pulling shenanigans in South America and Afghanistan. There was a very good reason JFK wanted the CIA dismantled.
@kitt: I’m just saying Muslims are loyal to Muslims. They will happily use us but are not necessarily loyal. We need to do what is best for US.
We can still support them with material and diplomacy. I’ve never liked the idea of being in Syria under these circumstances and think we need to get out.
@Deplorable Me: No doubt we need to withdraw from the endless mire and moneypit of the entire ME, Muslims are not loyal they blow each other up all the time. They are still a tribal warlord mindset.
Perhaps Trump will be taking more of a “Prime directive” attitude until they evolve.
Side note Romney is treading into some deep waters https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/10/mitt-romney-wont-primary-trump-but-trying-to-bring-him-down-impeachment-2020 he is much like a muslim.
@kitt: Worse… like a Democrat.
@Deplorable Me: His version of Romney care says volumes.He certainly couldnt run for office in MA anymore. Big government asshat.
Trump regarding Turkey, 2015
Jump ahead to this past December:
December 23, 2018 — Four Months After Threat To Seize Trump Towers Istanbul, Trump Gave In To Turkey’s Syria Troop Pullout Demand
Jump ahead again:
October 7, 2019 — Turkey Prepares Syria Invasion — and Its Stock Market Is Down
October 8, 2019 — Graham vows ‘sanctions from hell’ if Turkey moves into Syria
Uh huh. Tough talk. But Lindsey Graham isn’t Commander in Chief.
From AP, October 08, 2019, 10:31 PM — Turkish forces poised to invade northern Syria within 24 hours
Watch as we do nothing but bluster. We already told them we won’t intervene if they go after the Kurds.
@Greg:
No, that’s what Obama did in Syria. Trump is a leader. Obama created the mess, Trump is getting us out of it.
Again.
Trump just betrayed the people who did most of the heavy lifting for us against ISIS. He sold the Kurds out. He doesn’t even credit them for what they did against ISIS. They’re already under bombardment by Turkish military forces that are crossing the border into Syria.
Russia has issued a statement acknowledging “Turkey’s right to ensure its security.” They’d be perfectly happy to see Turkey eliminating opponents of Bashar al-Assad’s dictatorship and the Arab Socialist Ba’ath Party.
So, by green lighting Turkey’s war on our former allies with his assurance a couple of days back that we won’t lift a finger to help them, Trump pleases both his buddy Vladimir and Turkey’s Erdoğan, who might otherwise create serious problems with his Trump Towers property in Istambul. Forget Trump’s threats to economically destroy Turkey if they do what they’re already begun doing. The truth of the matter is that Turkey is in a far better position to economically damage Donald Trump. That’s one of the ways that this whole “conflict of interest” thing works.
Trump might even get a nice Thank You note from Assad. Maybe Putin will pass it to him under the table, next time they meet.
There are going to be serious consequences. Look for ISIS to be regrouping in the very near future. And don’t look for anyone to be too eager to help us deal with them, next time around. The reward is a stab in the back.
@Greg: He didn’t betray anyone. We had no business in Syria except to run down the ISIS threat Obama unleashed. That’s done. Why doesn’t the UN take a role? Are they afraid of squirreling some of their bribes?
@Deplorable Me, #25:
The United States had only a couple of thousand troops in Syria. The Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces suffered around 11,000 casualties in the war against ISIS.
October 8, 2019 — The commander who oversaw ISIS defeat is ‘disappointed’ by Syria withdrawal
I think most republicans in Congress know that Trump’s betrayal of the Kurds is an appallingly stupid move, even if they feel no outrage over the dishonor it brings on us. You won’t find many supporting Trump’s “decision”.
@Greg:
So, you want to stay until we have 11,000 casualties? We have NO BUSINESS there except possibly as part of a UN mission.
We aren’t betraying the Kurds. We defeated ISIS there so they don’t spread back into Iraq. Obama got us embroiled in a mess because of his affinity for the Muslim Brotherhood. Trump is getting us out.
@Deplorable Me, #27:
The Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces defeated ISIS. We contributed money, weapons, military guidance, and gathered intelligence. They sacrificed blood and their lives.
Trump had the least of all to do with the outcome. What comes of this sudden policy reversal, however, will be all on Trump. Nobody but Putin, Assad, and Turkey think it’s a good idea. Congress doesn’t. The Pentagon doesn’t. The intelligence community doesn’t. The U.S. military leaders who are directly involved don’t. They all think this a monumental strategic blunder that will come back to haunt us. But Trump, who knows nothing, imagines he knows better than everybody. He may have just put his seal of approval on genocide.
Kurdish families are fleeing for a U.S. military outpost that we’re preparing to abandon.
@Greg: Obama betrayed all the people of Iraq, Syria, Libya and Afghanistan by giving ISIS free rein to run rampant through those regions, murdering tens of thousands. Trump has destroyed ISIS and made the region safer.
We have no reason to be in Syria and never did. Just another Obama blunder corrected by Trump.
ISIS was the brainstorm of one, count ’em, ONE, Koran memorizer, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.
He’s been dead since 2006 but his legacy organization outlasted him by many years.
Thing is, there are literally tens of thousands of Muslim men who have memorized the Koran and who seek to lead their fellows to a worldwide caliphate.
ISIS will be followed by some other iteration.
And that one by yet another.
Islam inherently pushes its adherents to become followers of men (as opposed to following God.)
Dawlah Islamiyah, Boko Haram, Jama’at Nasr al-Islam wal Muslimin, Tareek-e-Taliban, Hizbul Mujahideen of India, ISWAP, ADF Islamists, Hay’at Tahrir al Sham, al-Shabaab, Fulani Islamists, Ansar Allah, and Tehreek-i-Taliban are just the up-and-comers who are killing people this month on top of oldies-but goodies: Hezballah, Hamas, al Qaeda, Taliban and ISIS.
Which one will be the next ISIS?
It’s a game of whack-a-mole.
Can you kill EVERY charismatic Muslim on earth?
“Impossible to understand” pretty much sums it up.
The Kurds are a fierce and at the same time a very romantic, proud people. A convoy guards in Iraq, they would never drive through an ambush. They would chase down and kill the attackers. A gathering of Kurds at a wedding or a party is something to experience. The argue for fun and love their people. They also enjoy battle. They have been fighting each other and everyone around them for centuries. It is their way of life. The as fierce as the Turks are, they do not fare well against the Kurds.
@Greg: And our couple hundred soldiers were preventing all that? You should wise up. More than just a little.
Remember how “loyally” Obama stood by the Pakistani doctor that confirmed bin Laden’s address? We should never have been in Syria and people were eventually going to be left without the US there. Obama’s legacy is human suffering.
@Deplorable Me: Remember you made the comment a few days ago that Greg is not ignorant? Are you retracting that?
@Randy: Ignorance and liberal zealotry are practically indiscernible from each other. But, yeah, I could be wrong.
@Deplorable Me: well, we know Greg is never wrong! He just does not have two haves of a brain to rub together. It is like arguing with a 2 year old who will not eat her oatmeal.
Are you aware that the Syrian Democratic Front has been holding thousands of ISIS prisoners that will likely escape in the confusion as Turkish forces assault the Kurds?
Probably not, since neither Trump nor his media promoters have told you. The Pentagon certainly knows. It’s one of the things they warned Trump about, and have publicly stated.
Trump has just lost the support of his generals and Pentagon planners. The prevailing mood in the Pentagon has been described by insiders as horrified, and aghast. They know what’s going to follow the dispersal of ISIS fighters across the region and into Europe.
From FOX News, a few minutes ago: Pentagon planners scramble to produce strategy following sudden withdrawal of US troops from Northern Syria
@Greg:
They are turning them over to us. Keep up.
It’s not a “sudden” withdrawal. Trump has said he was going to do it all along. You people merely are taken by surprise when a President does what he says he is going to do. We certainly didn’t experience that under Obama.
@Greg: Yes, we know about the prisoners and the generals are not all turning against him. You never did learn much about the military while you were peeling potatoes, did you!
@Deplorable Me, #38:
Is that what Donnie Boy told you? Because it’s a load of manure.
The U.S. has grabbed a few dozen “high value” prisoners from among the eleven thousand or so ISIS fighters and supporters currently being held by the SDF. That’s it. The rest are likely going to vanish into the woodwork, since nobody is going to be there to keep them from doing so.
Don’t worry. They’ll be back, just as soon as they get reorganized.
Per Randy #36—Greg “does not have two haves of a brain to rub together.”
This from an Army Colonel.Even a potato peeling buck private can do better.
Re our betrayal of the Kurds– Trump reminds us they didn’t help us at Normandy.
As all you whiny liberals shed your fake, phony, contrived, hypocritical crocodile tears over the Kurds, remember that it was Obama unleashed ISIS on them and put not just them but EVERYONE in the region in desperate danger. We never had any business in Syria except Obama was trying to play warlord. He failed at everything but getting us involved in places we shouldn’t have been.
Where is the UN? Why aren’t THEY putting pressure on Syria, Russia and Turkey to protect the Kurds? Why is the responsibility of the US and why are liberals who previously opposed US troops in harms way without an AUMF in place suddenly gung-ho to keep troops in a nation where we have NO national interests?
Go run that crap on someone else. No one here is buying it.
October 11, 2019 – Christian Communities in Northeast Syria Are the Target of a Turkish Attack for the First Time in Over a Century
From FOX News, Sunday, October 13, 2019 – Hundreds of ISIS supporters escape camp in Syria as Turkish troops approach, Kurds say
Sunday, October 13, 2019 – Trump orders withdrawal of U.S. forces from northern Syria, days after Pentagon downplays possibility
Thus begins a massive ethnic cleansing of the Kurds—Christians will be mere collateral damage
Tucker–the fool–Carlson opines Americans don’t know or care about Kurds.
We should care about our ONLY unwavering ally in the fight against ISIS—TERRIBLE MESSAGE BEING SENT—-
DT TODAY—Let them fight it out—-reminds us Kurds were not at Normandy
Thoughts
@Greg: So, what would you do old master mind? Start a war against a NATO ally? You have no idea what is going on in the middle east.
@Randy, #47:
I know what I wouldn’t have done. Everybody told Trump disaster would follow his sudden policy reversal. This is only the beginning of it.
What did he get in return for selling out the Kurds? He never gives anybody anything for nothing. He’s hardwired that way.
Video Appears To Show Alleged Atrocities By Turkish-Back Militias Against Kurds
On the ground in Syria as the Turkish onslaught continues
Trump getting us out of the Syrian mess Obama got us in
It’s good to remind one’s self that NONE of this would be happening were it not for Obama’s totally bungling and stupidity. NONE of it. We had no business being in Syria and should never have been there. Plus, Obama never got the left’s beloved AUMF to BE in Syria, so Trump obviously does not have one, either. Funny, instead of the left DEMANDING Trump get out, they are now, in total reversal of previous positions, demanding he STAY. I guess Trump only needs an AUMF when the left is imagining he is going to go off on some military rampage as a means to keep their moronic constituency constantly looking away from their corruption and failure.
@Randy: What is he and every other whiny, sore loser Democrat going to do? BITCH about what Trump does, regardless of what it is. So, who the hell CARES what they think?
@Greg: Actually Greg, the Turks have been attacking the Kurds while we were there, but you would not know that. This has been going on since the beginning of the Ottoman Empire. It just gets more publicity now and DAs like you know no difference.