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From a radical (left/right ?) site I watch to see what the nutjobs are thinking …

Right now President Obama is a new broom and the country thinks he is resolving a problem left to him by a Republican administration. He is about to sign in a stimulus package that will fail to stimulate the economy. Then in three months he’ll be back at the trough looking for more money. Six months will pass, things will get worse, and it will be viewed as his problem to clean up. By the end of 2009, assuming he follows the path laid out with the stimulus bill, he will be viewed by the American public as inept and the “wrong man for the job”. Things will be a lot worse than they are now.

In conclusion it is a shame that President Obama did not take advantage of the situation. He had a mandate from the people but he decided to act like a politician instead of a leader. I know it’s early to write obituaries, but I’ve been around long enough to know a loser when I see one. This market will break down, and soon, probably falling to somewhere around 6,000 before we finally see a decent rebound.

… as for the 6000, who knows, but other than that I pretty much agree (except I have no idea where this dude would have wanted Obama to lead us).

Critics have always drawn a picture of Bush as being disengaged, but the seemingly non-presence of the current POTUS in the sausauge making process of the “stimulus” legislation made Obama appear more so.
It appears that Obama really doesn’t like to govern .. he’d rather campaign.

Can you print a chart of the last 6 months….?

Funny how cons seem to want to deny Bush has any impact on the markets but Obama does – and vice versa for Democrats.

Gaffa,

I appreciate that you recognize the blame game is a two way street, but wouldn’t you have to look at a chart of the last eight and a half years to get the complete picture of how Bush “impacted” the market? I do not recall where it stood when he was elected, but I know it was not near 13-14,000, where it topped out before Democrats won back congress in ’06.

I really don’t mind him campaigning, if that is what he is good at. However, I would like to see some positive leadership within that campaigning. OK, I get it Mr. Obama, President Bush left you with a problem, but you said you were the one to fix it. Stop with the crisis talk. Fix it. We can judge you in 9 months. Take off the Code Pink hat and put on the Leadership hat.

(not that I believe the BDS, it’s just I am sick of hearing about it)

Tom in CA

Looking for charts and graphs, here you go, 56 economy blog entries. Comparisons of the Clinton/Bush terms, how we compare to our foreign competitors, past few months, past few years, etc.

It is a blog, these are his opinions, based on detailed facts, and he’s fair, not a basher.

http://engram-backtalk.blogspot.com/search/label/Economy

Nice blog Missy, refreshing to hear reason not rants.

@Neo: I read Blankley’s column yesterday and found it highly interesting:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/17/the-new-presidents-governing-style/

I’ll post on it later today.

Just where is Obama’s leadership on any of these key issues? Even the hopey-changey stuff has given way to catastrophe and crisis.

Yea Mike .. I had the same link above.

I think Obama should reread the history of Ronald Reagan.
I think he got caught up in the “taking it to the people” part of Reagan, but missed the parts about the hard work of governing .. or just ignored them.

And Tom .. I seem to remember the complaints that Bush ‘talked down the market’ but Obama has outdone anything Bush ever did, taking on the mantle of “POTUS Gloom and Doom”. Meanwhile, he eats wagyu. I agree .. he should put a ‘cork’ in it.

The guys is such a ‘peacock’

@Neo: I know you had the link, I thought it was worth repeating.

Also, a new op-ed by Karl Rove says much the same thing:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123500260310017735.html

I too noticed the contrast with Reagan. You may recall that during the legislative battle for Reagan’s tax cuts he worked the phones for votes. Obama has been totally hands off.

It’s like he’s voting “present” on the stuff that doesn’t interest him or put him at the center of attention.

I will post on this topic shortly. It’s too good to pass up.

And isn’t it interesting that the MSM isn’t mentioning the slide? It’s one thing to take 2000 points when the Dow is up over 14,000 but when it is around 8-9000 that 2000 point drop is a big deal.

SJR
The Pink Flamingo

@Mike’s America:

Here’s another one:

They had to pass this boondoggle before an impending “catastrophe”, then go on a three day vacation. In the mean time:

Work before play was apparently not a lesson taught during his tender years.

@Fit fit:

I used to read his blog everyday a year or so ago, then got a new computer, my favorites were gone. This thread triggered my memory so I looked him up to share.

@Lightbringer:

You may find this interesting, particularly intriguing is how the TARP funds were distributed:

http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/02/who_are_the_big_spenders.html

@Lightbringer

Check out the Dow Jones over the last 10 years
http://money.cnn.com/quote/chart/chart.html?pg=ch&symb=djia&time=10yr&freq=1dy&charts=0&comp=&compidx=aaaaa%7E0&ind_compind=&uf=0&lf=1&ma=0&maval=60

I believe Bush inherited it around the 11,000 mark – it goes down below 8000 mark then peaks for a short period above 14,000 mark before slumping below 8000 mark. Not very impressive when you compare that to the rises under Reagan and Clinton. So if you gonna blame Obama for the lastest falls – then I hope you are going to blame Bush for the even bigger falls we have seen over the last 6 months.

As for Wall Street and the banks – I don’t have a great deal of sympathy for them as they primarily caused the mess we are in now with their over-relaxed approach. It was greed with these sub-prime mortgages etc. You don’t want over-regulation – but you need some decent regulation in order to stop some of these excesses.

Gaffa, the dips in your chart represent the dot.com bubble burst, 911 and Wall St. fraud Bush inherited and the end was the collapse of the banks, none of it should be blamed on Bush. Mid Bush years represent how the tax cuts worked.

This from Fred Barnes column this morning:

“3. Obama the market killer. The Dow opened at 8281.22 on the morning of Obama’s inauguration. Today it opens at 7465.95. That’s a vote of practically no confidence in Obama’s strategy for reviving the economy. The numbers were worse on the biggest days of the Obama presidency. The Dow fell 332.13 points on inauguration day, 381.99 points on the day Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner announced step two in the bank bailout, and 297.91 points when the president signed the stimulus bill three days ago. ******Financial markets are a bet on the future.******** The market’s view is that an Obamanomics-driven economy looks grim.”

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/016/169okbhv.asp

Current drops are directly related to Obama policy.

lol – yep not Bush’s fault at all – I mean he only had 8 years to prevent the fraud on Wall st. The market has dropped loads since the last 6 months – but I guess because Obama can’t stem the drop or walk on water – it’s his fault.

I think there are “former” Wall Street execs that would be scratching their heads after reading your last comment.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9906E3DF103DF93AA25751C1A9649C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

http://www.aim.org/media-monitor/slick-willie-and-kenny-boy/

Again, the market drops mentioned above were due to Obama policies.

@Missy:

Gaffa is using an exotic mixture of revisionism, wishful thinking, and willful suspension of disbelief while attempting to spin the obvious.

In the process he’s only able to gyrate himself in the ground.

@GaffaUK: Gaffa, even you must be aware that the market is a predictor of FUTURE economic conditions, not a reflection of now 8 year old policies.

Grow a brain.

@Aye Chihuahua:

Well, we’ve got more bad news for him today, even the Associated Press is pointing fingers at Obama, hard to believe, note third paragraph in article below.

It’s not just his policies, who wants to invest when all we hear is his intentional gloom and doom rhetoric? An omen of times to come, when he starts preaching the end is near, watch for another money grab, hopefully, the “American people” will catch on sooner rather than later.

Did you read the American Thinker column I posted to Lightbringer in #13? Heh.

Associated Press
Wall Street poised for lower opening Friday
By STEPHEN BERNARD , 02.20.09, 07:00 AM EST

Wall Street was poised to extend its losses Friday after the Dow Jones industrial average sank to its lowest level in more than six years.

On Thursday, the Dow broke through a bottom reached in November, pulled down by a steep drop in key financial shares. It was the lowest close for the Dow since Oct. 9, 2002, the depths of the last bear market.

Stocks have fallen steadily over the past two weeks as investors lost confidence in multiple Obama administration programs aimed at bolstering the economy. The market’s inability to rally signals that investors don’t have a sense of when the recession, already 14 months old, will end.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2009/02/20/ap6075734.html

@Missy:

Yeah, the futures are down big again today.

Looks to be a <300.00> day.

Glad I got out of the market entirely.

I predict the Dow will be at 5000 before it’s over.

@GaffaUK:

Here’s a little something for you to read and digest.

It’s so delicious I snipped the whole thing:

The Market Is Shorting Obama’s ‘Stimulus’
By George Bittlingmayer & Thomas W. Hazlett

President Barack Obama’s “stimulus” plan invokes the 1930s fiscal strategy put forward by British economist John Maynard Keynes, who saw capitalism as pretty much spent. Having exhausted their store of innovative ideas, investors curled up. Workers lost jobs, spent less, and sent still other workers walking. Budget deficits – government spending without taxes to “pay as you go” – would pull unemployed workers off the street and arrest the downward spiral. Investors’ “animal spirits” would be calmed, new capital risked, and economic vitality restored.

So the Obama theory – government spending is stimulus. If so, financial markets should feel the love. The U.S. budget is awash in red ink, and $800 billion more of it should easily move the needle on our economic prospects. Indeed it has – in the wrong direction. Financial markets don’t want more government debt or a scramble for “shovel-ready” spending projects. They want the skeletons in the banking sector’s closet exposed and expunged.

The Bush Economy went up in smoke in September-October 2008. The financial meltdown hit Wall Street, devastating bank equities and laying waste to America’s 401-Ks. The Republican ticket, McCain-Palin, was a 50-50 bet on Sept. 15; by Oct. 15 it was a 5-1 long-shot. Voters saw the carnage: the Dow Jones Index lost 17% of its value from Sept. 2 through Nov. 3. In a flash, Americans lost years of toil, and Republicans the election. Decisively.

The election marked a turning point. Investors looked forward to the economic policies crafted by Democrats in Congress and the White House. More pointedly, they wanted decisive, well-crafted action on the banking crisis. Hence the Dow soared 6.5% Nov. 21 on news that Timothy Geithner, the highly-respected head of the New York Federal Reserve Bank, was Obama’s pick for Treasury Secretary.

Yet, from Nov. 4, 2008 through Feb. 12, 2009, the DJI overall fell 18% — a larger drop than during the Sept-Oct plunge. In January, when the Obama plan, promising far greater deficits than the two much smaller “emergency stimulus” plans signed by Pres. George W. Bush in 2008, was unveiled, the market tanked – the worst January performance in 113 years.

More pointedly, key political victories for the Team Obama spending plan have not been viewed as buying opportunities on Wall Street. A string of negative market reactions began with the December 18 announcement of a stimulus bill of $700 billion (Dow down 2.5%), continued with the January 7 announcement that the actual plan would be “on the high side” (-2.7%) and continued with last week’s 61-36 Senate vote supporting the Administration’s fiscal plan. The White House victory and the new bank bail-out plan announced the following day by Treasury Secretary Geithner were met with a 5% wipe-out in the DJI, and a decline in Treasury bond yields, indicating a “flight to quality.”

There are many problems with Keynes’ “stagnationist thesis,” as Joseph Schumpeter called it, not the least of which is that it didn’t test so well when applied by New Dealers. U.S. unemployment was perniciously high throughout the 1930s, peaking at 25% in 1933 but still over 17% in 1939.

Many claim that World War II brought us out of the Great Depression, but the lesson to be learned is still being debated. Federal budget deficits soared (reaching 26.5 % of GDP in 1942 as calculated by Harvard economist Robert Barro), providing Keynesians an argument for spending as stimulus. But WWII also brought a profound shift in the New Deal’s regulatory policies. Attorney General Thurman Arnold’s vigorous campaign to break-up “the bottlenecks of business” in major industries like steel, chemicals and electrical equipment was shuttered, and America’s largest corporations enjoyed a respite from threats of dismemberment (Arnold was kicked upstairs to a judgeship). As Thomas K. McCraw writes in his superlative Schumpeter biography, “Under the life-and-death pressure of war mobilization… the Roosevelt Administration, which had been hostile toward alleged monopolies, now decided that big business must lead in the job that had to be done.”

The only thing guaranteed by the spending stimulus is more national debt. One stroke of the presidential pen has now increased it by $800 billion. Democrats recently screamed about W-era profligacy. On July 28, 2008, Sen. Kent Conrad (D-ND), Chair of the Senate Budget Committee declared, “If they gave out Olympic medals for fiscal irresponsibility, President Bush would take the gold, silver and bronze. With his eight years in office, he will have had the five highest deficits ever recorded. And the highest of those deficits is now projected to come in 2009, as he leaves office.”

Kent Conrad was right. The projected 2009 deficit then stood at $482 billion. In January it was forecast by the Congressional Budget Office at $1.2 trillion. Pres. Obama’s new plan now ups that to $1.7 trillion. If W got the gold, the new Administration has landed the Platinum in just its qualifying heat.

If historic U.S. budget deficits are any indication, the economy is already “stimulated.” The predicted 2009 federal deficit stood at 8.3% of GDP before Obama’s package sent it to about 12%. This is a stunning level of debt, double the previous post WWII high when Reagan’s 1983 budget deficit amounted to 6% of GDP. That time around, the 10.8% unemployment rate, the worst since the Great Depression, was soon reversed.

Keynesians claim that the Reagan boom was an outcome of just this deficit strategy; for sake of argument, let us assume the Keynesian position. Reagan’s budget deficit, half the size of Obama’s as a fraction of GDP, was able to pull the economy out of an unemployment trough deeper than the 7.6% hole we’re in today.

How do economists know that, while a deficit amounting to 6% of GDP budget was sufficient to spur the economy back to health in 1983, it will take more than twice that federal borrowing to do the same now? They don’t. Economic models are all over the place in their projections. Indeed, Prof. Barro’s cutting edge analysis of fiscal policy finds no historical stimulus from peacetime deficits. Of course, we’ve never seen so massive a deficit – one that would bar the U.S. from membership in the European Union, on grounds that our government finances are a mess — and so we lack empirical evidence to inform the precise experiment we’re running today.

We do, however, know the accounting trends: our government faces massive new spending increases as Baby Boomers retire and their Social Security and Medicare bills come due. Market investors are wary of new spending, guaranteeing either future tax increases or inflation, as a run-up to the demographically guaranteed spending spiral. The quest for “shovel-ready” projects makes one think, Where’s Senator Ted Stevens when we need him? In any event, this fiscal bridge to nowhere is not spurring markets.

Government deficits are nonetheless being sold as doctor’s orders, an elixir that – while it looks ugly and tastes bitter – will propel us back to economic health. Yet the best forecast currently on the table is the one made by investors risking their own money. They are shorting the “stimulus.”

Here’s another snippet for ya.

President BJ Clinton tells Obie to find the “Hope” and stop with the gloom and doom.

Roll the tape:

I suspect Gaffa may go underground again… Either that or he’s busy at one of his socialist soirees he’s so fond of.

Guess is isn’t just Obama’s policies, the democrats aren’t helpful either. Schumer did in Indy Mac and now Dodd is trying to take out the rest of the banking industry, the situation isn’t dire enough for him I see.

“Fears that the federal government will be forced to nationalize some of the nation’s largest banks sent the stock market plummeting Friday, driving the Dow Jones Industrial Average to a six-year low.

U.S. stocks took a cue from overseas markets, where European and Asian indexes suffered major losses on fears that the rapid deterioration of the global economy has left many of the world’s major banks at a point where only government takeover can preserve them.

That sent U.S. stocks plummeting at Friday’s opening, and the rout gained momentum at mid-day when Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee Chairman Christopher J. Dodd said during a Bloomberg television interview that the United States may have to temporarily take over some banks.

>snipsnip<

Edward Yingling, president of the American Bankers Association, criticized Mr. Dodd’s comments, which were later contradicted in a Bloomberg interview by his House counterpart, House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank, Massachusetts Democrat.

“We believe that the whole discussion about nationalization is impairing the financial sector and making the credit situation worse,” said Mr. Yingling, adding that it also undermines the government’s goal of reviving private investment in banks. “Investors will remain on the sidelines if there is continued speculation that the government may step in and undercut their investment.”

With stocks of major banks like Citigroup and Bank of America now worth only chump change, some analysts said the market value of the banks has dropped so far below the $90 billion the government already has invested in them that they’ve effectively been nationalized, no matter what the White House says.

“The two banks are implicitly nationalized, which is what is rocking investors,” said Gregori Volokhin, a strategy chief at Meeschaert New York. ”

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/21/stocks-tank-talk-bank-nationalization/

So Bush got buffeted about with events? So did Reagan and Clinton. There was the stock crash in the 80s, there were crisis around the world throughout the 80s and 90s but they handled it. And whether Bush warned about things is somewhat moot – if he put measures in places to stop fraud and to prevent sub-prime mortgages then why are we in the mess we are in? Talking isn’t enough.

@Mike
So if that is true then the market throughout Bush’s time for the most part were not optimistic about the future.

lol – it’s not Dubya’s fault. It was congress, he warned about it blah blah. What did he do? Bush will remembered for 9/11, Iraq and the lastest recession. You can’t have it both ways. Bush pumped lots of money in the last months of his adminstration – what happened to that? I’m not convinced by Obama latest plans – seems a bit of mess – and he will be held responsible from when he took over. He inherited a mess – but it’s his job to clean it up. However if you are going judge him by the markets then do the same with Bush. Let’s see how the markets are in 4 years time.

Gaffa: So Bush got buffeted about with events? So did Reagan and Clinton. There was the stock crash in the 80s, there were crisis around the world throughout the 80s and 90s but they handled it.

Somehow, Gaffa, I’m missing an attack on US financial institutions (WTC), military installations (Pentagon), and an attempt on our government institutions (Flight 93) under Reagan and Clinton. Not to to mention, of course the financial repercussions of 911.

To compare the Cold War… sans a US attack… under Reagan; and Clinton’s superfulous wars of political convenience as equivalent is just plain insultingly stupid. What Bush had to contend with is only matched by Roosevelt and Pearl Harbor.. without the financial crash.’

And I don’t see anyone giving Bush a complete pass for the inability to put out the economic fuse in the dam, placed there by the previous admin. What we are arguing is that it is not *solely* Bush’s fault, but also the fault of Congress.

@GaffaUK: The markets under Bush recovered their enthusiasm in 2003 and that enthusiasm held until Obama came on the scene in 2008:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_yT5Pq87qYbM/SB2WFlqK7GI/AAAAAAAAAOo/eW9RRhDWRwk/s1600-h/dji2.png

mikeA: I know we hate each other, which is cool by me, but come on…

mikeA: The markets under Bush recovered their enthusiasm in 2003 and that enthusiasm held until Obama came on the scene in 2008:

Are you seriously comparing 2003 and our present economic issues?