Thread via Margot Cleveland:
Search warrant & schedules has been bristling me & I finally figured out why–we are getting lost in what was taken & what was listed as susceptible to seizure & NOT the criminal provisions on which warrant was based.
I’m still ruminating here, but what I see is NONE of the three criminal statutes used to justify the search require materials to be “classified”. Yet, both NY Times & Washington Post directed everyone to idea of Trump keeping classified info & list of what was taken highlighted that too. But look at the three statues:
Espionage Act’s plain language does not require material related to “national defense” to be classified. (Preliminary research confirms my reading but want to dig deeper).
Second criminal provision, also doesn’t distinguish between classified and unclassified.
Nor does the third. And IN FACT the third isn’t concerned about Trump’s possession of it, but his “destruction” of it.
So the “classified” “top secret” is an emotive red herring. The search was authorized NOT because Trump allegedly had top secret information (which he says he didn’t b/c he declassified). But under the statutes, it doesn’t matter. And whether classified or not, the second statute cited, seems to make Trump taking anything that is considered “Presidential Papers” from White House, whether classified or not; whether the archivest (sp?) has a copy or not.
And the first statute makes “national defense” the issue, again whether declassified or not, and could include things such as pictures of Trump by military equipment etc., and that would seem to reach “personal” as opposed to non-presidential papers. So, if I’m reading the statutes correctly, all DOJ has to do is show judge that Trump had kept Presidential Papers, which would clearly cover anything that was ever classified (unless copies are exempt???), b/c those are gov’t property & go to archivist. And there is a separate statute specifically related to classified material. So why wasn’t that used?
Why was the “espionage act” used instead/in addition? It doesn’t need to be classified under espionage act and it doesn’t need to be Presidential Papers. And why is “Obstruction of Justice” part of this which deals with destruction NOT the keeping? My gut is that DOJ wants a crime to prosecute Trump with and it appears keeping Presidential Papers qualifies, but they also want to get him for “destroying” evidence but for what?
What was the underlying “investigation or proper administration of justice” that DOJ is claiming he is seeking to obstruct?
Here I think they are digging for Trump’s post-election & January 6 communications and if missing “ah ha,” he obstructed justice.
I’m still noddling this but my big take-away is the entire “classified” focus is misplaced. Trump is the man & they found the “crimes”.
But “classified/top secret play to the public & distract from the entire goal. And the obstruction tells you the breadth of investigation is much beyond Trump keeping Presidential Records. And on that point, it would seem that any document that WAS classified at some point between 2017-2021 would be definition be a Presidential Record, and viola a crime to keep. This still stinks but odor skunk & not cat pee.
FURTHER THOUGHTS POST-RESEARCH/Feedback:
So what about GSA packing & shipping? First, I don’t have sources on that so am answering from hypothetical: IF GSA packed & shipped everything then crime 2 is a problem b/c Trump didn’t “remove”. Did he “conceal?” Doubt statute allows “conceal” to mean “keep” especially if he showed gov’t folks where he had them stored. But what if he told GSA to pack & ship? (Then “caused” to be removed.) But what if he had “copies” shipped? Ah, now we get to a legal dispute over what statute means. short answer is courts are split although I believe better view is copies don’t count under statute (b/c copies aren’t listed while they are for other statutes and b/c purpose of statute is to protect gov’t access to info/material. (Law geek aside: Lang as in Lang/Booker is main case on copies & I use to cite that all time in early post-Booker years & never realized crime at issue. HA. Yeah, law dork bit there.
So lots of questions: Did Trump “remove” or GSA? Did Trump tell GSA to ship? Were they copies? AND in warrant application what did DOJ tell court b/c more I look at 2071 more iffy it b/c as basis for search. And I keep coming back to WHY: Frankly, only thing that makes sense is to find the crime for the orange man. And NONE of this “classified” or not matters. What matters is did Trump remove documents?
ICYMI 12 hours post noodling, this thread is solidifying as my assessment DOJ/FBI have man and have now decided on crime(s) and for those whose brains work faster than my fingers, read this:
(thread via Jason Foster)
More recent historical context for current events.
According to @Newsweek, the “road to the raid” on a former President’s home began with NARA and National Archivist David Ferriero.
I have some experience dealing with him.🧵
1. (newsweek.com/exclusive-info…)
He sidelined NARA’s independent watchdog on paid admin leave for 2 years, a needless waste of taxpayer money that also ensured less oversight of his agency at the time. (govexec.com/management/201…) Here is Mr. Ferriero’s letter to @ChuckGrassley from September 2015 responding to Qs about what he did (or didn’t do) about Hillary Clinton’s secret, offsite email server. (archives.gov/files/press/pr…)
Mr. Ferriero did not take a muscular approach to retrieving those federal records, “deferring to the State Department review” instead.
“We do not believe that it is appropriate or necessary at this time for NARA to request that the Attorney General initiate an action.”
And under Mr. Ferriero, NARA had never conducted an inspection of the State Department’s records system because it did not “warrant an inspection.”
Clinton’s lawyer had a thumb drive containing classified material from her server.
But, hey, no big deal. No warrant. No raid. No team of FBI agents.
After all, his “law firm is taking ‘appropriate measures’ to secure the files.” (politico.com/story/2015/07/…)
The Archivist of the U.S. serves indefinitely (no fixed term). It has not been considered a partisan position before. But, based on Mr. Ferriero’s statements upon resigning earlier this year, it seems he saw his role in partisan political terms. (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Fer…)
08/13/22 – Officials warn of threats targeting FBI agents following Trump’s Mar-a-Lago search
If you target the FBI, disparage the courts, and disregard Trump’s mob injuring 150 Capitol police, don’t expect anyone with a brain to believe you really give a rat’s ass about the rule of law, or support law enforcement officers.
@Greg
I recall the Democrat’s legions attacking police headquarters, injuring and killing police, laying siege to a federal courthouse, destroying personal property, destroying municipal property, terrorizing neighborhoods and plundering businesses. That was with the absolute blessing of the Democrat party. Your pretend concern about attacking officials and the “rule of law” isn’t selling well. We could add Obergruppenführer Garland’s ignoring threats against Supreme Court Justices or investigating violent attacks on pregnancy support centers.
Democrats shit on the law and the Constitution. To you, all the law represents is a political weapon. Trump has done NOTHING wrong here; nothing that has not been firmly established in precedence by EVERY OTHER President. You know that either you create some precept to incapacitate him or he kicks your stupid asses in 2024… just like he did in 2020. Only THIS time, election fraud won’t be so easy.
The FBI needs to stop being the American Gestapo.
Then they’ll be safe, but probably still go to jail.
We’ve had enough.
President Trump has committed no crime(s) period full stop.
President Trump Announces that He Has His Best Poll Numbers Ever and Largest Amount of Campaign Contributions from the People Ever This Past Week
Trump has actual support.
Biden never did.
Restore our democracy, now.
Interesting use of words, Comrade Greggie. “Target?” As in the slaughter at Ruby Ridge kind of targeting? How about the 25 children that died at Waco due to the actions of the FBI? That kind of targeting, Comrade Moron?
Merrick Garland, being the weasel he is in command of 100’s of other weasels, now whines that they are being “targeted?” He seems to be taking his talking points from Jesse Jackson.
Lookie, lookie; the left now cares about law enforcement officers when before Merrick Garland’s whining presser, all they cared about was defunding those LEOs. Remember David Dorn? Remember any Democrat demanding that the thug who murdered Officer Dorn be found and jailed? Nah, didn’t think so. The only cop the left ever supported was the slug that murdered Ashli Babbitt.
Rule of law? Like Sandy Berger and Hillary Clinton destroying classified documents? Or maybe an Attorney General, who was tasked with enforcing the law, is found in contempt of Congress and he didn’t care because he was the President’s “wingman?” That kind of giving a rat’s ass about the law?
Hypocrisy is your mainstay, Comrade Jerkoff.
You bastards in Washington are supposed to “govern,” not play petty games of oneupmanship/corruption-for-payola.
Sick of 95% of you; you ought to be hung up by the heels, `a la’ Mussolini, alive, and left there to rot. You have disgraced my used-to-be-country.
that’s a big stretch
hillary didn’t get arrested for destroying evidence
you liberals – are retarded
It amazes me that the FBI and their leaders are completely unaware of the disaster they are orchestrating toward themselves. Do they really believe the American people are so weak willed as to simply let this happen to us (we are the truth victims here)? How many times have citizens risen up against those who seek to take away our freedoms and threaten us into submission? They show that they are indeed, too short sighted to be in any positions of power over the people.
I heard that Trump pulled a girl’s pigtails when he was in the second grade, maybe we can prosecute him for sexual assault????……sarc….
That’s literally how they are coming up with crimes now…
Sad.
This FBI/DOJ is good at persecuting political opponants and voices that dont parrot the WEF propaganda. They are deeply rooted in the entire govenment system, Mc Carthy tried and was murdered for his efforts. Then villified and slandered, given his own ISM. They have gained so much ground since then.
Thats a very old photo to photoshop up.
Who do you know that has over 50 people connected that commit suicide?
Not Epstien that was someone else we know Slick is a sicko, why is Barr covering it up?
how many records does barry still have? i’ve read 30 million.
How do we get to display memes?
Comrade Greg actually believes the j6 were Trump supporters attacking the capitol and purple purgatory still beieives batman and spiderman , go figure