It’s quite humorous watching Obama box himself into a corner trying to act tough. First he tells the world that there is a line in the sand not to be crossed in Syria…the “red-line”…
But when that line was crossed he says “well we’re not really sure who used them.”
“What we now have is evidence that chemical weapons have been used inside of Syria, but we don’t know how they were used, when they were used, who used them – we don’t have a chain of custody that establishes what exactly happened,”
But wait…Does it matter who used them? Wasn’t the reason for the warning to ensure no WMD’s were used at all? Or is it ok if the rebels use them but not Assad’s troops?
And now Iran is mocking Obama:
Iran said on Tuesday it regarded the alleged use of chemical weapons in Syria’s civil war as a “red line”, echoing major adversary the United States but saying Syrian rebels were the main culprit and not the Damascus government.
…In calling chemical weapons use a “red line” for Iran, Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Salehi did not indicate what action Tehran – one of Assad’s staunchest political and military allies – might take in the case that a poison gas attack by either side in the conflict were to be proven.
“We have always emphasized that the use of chemical weapons on the part of anyone is our red line,” Salehi said, according to the ISNA news agency. “Iran is opposed to the use of any kind of weapon of mass destruction, and not just their use but their production, accumulation, and use.”
If Obama now comes out and says its ok for the rebels to use them he’s in for a world of hurt…especially since it’s become completely obvious the rebels are nothing but a bunch of Islamic radicals:
In Syria’s largest city, Aleppo, rebels aligned with Al Qaeda control the power plant, run the bakeries and head a court that applies Islamic law. Elsewhere, they have seized government oil fields, put employees back to work and now profit from the crude they produce.
A bakery outside Aleppo, where the Qaeda-aligned Nusra Front is running the power plant and even distributing flour.
Across Syria, rebel-held areas are dotted with Islamic courts staffed by lawyers and clerics, and by fighting brigades led by extremists. Even the Supreme Military Council, the umbrella rebel organization whose formation the West had hoped would sideline radical groups, is stocked with commanders who want to infuse Islamic law into a future Syrian government.Nowhere in rebel-controlled Syria is there a secular fighting force to speak of.
…When the armed rebellion began, defectors from the government’s staunchly secular army formed the vanguard. The rebel movement has since grown to include fighters with a wide range of views, including Qaeda-aligned jihadis seeking to establish an Islamic emirate, political Islamists inspired by the Muslim Brotherhood and others who want an Islamic-influenced legal code like that found in many Arab states.
“My sense is that there are no seculars,” said Elizabeth O’Bagy, of the Institute for the Study of War, who has made numerous trips to Syria in recent months to interview rebel commanders.
Has Obama learned from Libya and Egypt? Two governments now run by Islamic radicals because of his intervention?
Or does he even care?
My feeling is that he could care less about the rise of radical Islam but he does care about polling numbers.
Despite all the talk of chemical weapons and red lines, only 24% of Americans overall think the US has a responsibility to take action — up from last month’s 20%, but not outside the margin of error. On the other hand, 62% reject the idea that the US has a responsibility to get involved
So he will continue to back down from his tough guy talk and hem and haw while the world laughs at him….at us
See author page
obama is a joke, the world has his number and plays him like a fiddle.
A ”chain of evidence” is what lawyers use in AMERICAN court cases, not what world leaders use as a basis for action!
And, does Obama want an expansion of Dar Al Islam* (literally, the realm of Islamic rule) on earth?
Seems, by all he DOES (not says) that he does.
*What does it tell you that there are only TWO Dar Al XXX’s in Islamic teaching? Opposite Dar Al Islam is NOT Dar Al infidel.
No.
It is Dar Al Harb (literally the realm of WAR).
Wondering if anybody has thought to cross check the WMD used in Syria (Sarin I think) with links to Saddam’s missing stocks or precursors? Nobody to this day has explained what was in thousands of trucks that crossed the border into Syria from Iraq in the runup to the war. Perhaps it was all of Saddam and his son’s art, or kitchen appliances? Maybe it was his personal luxury auto collection? His wardrobe? Drat..so many things it could’ve been.
Has he ever done what he said he would? In other words, has he ever not lied?
Kerry refused Israeli intelligence concerning the use of WMD.
Check out the survivors of the gas attacks, if it doesn’t make you want to wretch, you should work in one of the Gosnel/Obama abortion clinics. You may have a future yet.
The whole world is realizing the puke we have for a president is a lying incompetent phony.
Everyday should be spent trying to depose this incompetent fraud in the White House and our RINOs
If a gay basketball player is in trouble, Obama is right there. Forget our service people and ambassadors, it’s all about gay basketball players.
So, what exactly should the U.S. response to the situation in Syria be at this point? Is there some specific course of action that people have in mind? Or is this just another open occasion to bash Obama?
Syria has had its own chemical weapon program for over 30 years. They have facilities at several known locations. At least one is in close proximity to a ballistic missile site. They didn’t need anything from Saddam.
Saddam’s “missing stocks” wouldn’t be worth a damn at this point, assuming they existed to begin with. All that was ever found were a few odd shells left over from the Iraq/Iran conflict that they’d most likely lost track of—so old that they were very unlikely to have been usable. Their chemical agents were unstable by nature. They never had a very long shelf life.
Any intervention in Syria would have to be on a large scale. We would have to know with a high degree of certainty that all stockpiles and manufacturing facilities would be destroyed, regardless of which faction came out on top. It’s an extremely difficult situation. Any chosen course of action could go seriously wrong. I think the Obama administration has been watching, waiting and hoping for some development that will reveal a way to approach the problem.
@Greg: All that was ever found were a few odd shells left over from the Iraq/Iran conflict
Your second point about if Saddam sent his newer WMD to Syria, which I believe he did, probably not being worth a damn right now because of the shelf life is a valid argument given that it would be at least 11-12 years old by now.
@Skookum, I’m confused as to the timing on the alleged WMD use. We were discussing this back in mid March on Wordsmith’s 10 year anniversary of OIF post.
At that time, the media was reporting that the suspected use of chemicals was in the March 19th bombing of Aleppo. However the Jewish Press link you provided has a video that they say the Syrian rebels released to them in December… well before that incident.
Yet prior to March, no one claimed there was a use of chemical weapons in Syria. So is that video real or fabricated? More on that in a minute…
As I pointed out in my comment #62 on that thread, the type of chemical weapon that leaves the strong smell of chlorine is chlorine gas… a WW relic that hasn’t been used by anyone in the recent past *except* for AQ in Iraq, circa 2006-007. Most of the modern chemical weapons are odorless.
So my first question would be, when/where did the attack happen that portrays these victims in the Syrian rebel video in December? Because it sure wasn’t the Aleppo attack when the claims of chemicals being used was brought up.
And if it was chlorine gas, as the Reuters photographer seemed to indicate by the strong smell of chlorine, then I wouldn’t be betting it’s the Assad forces using it. History dictates more strongly it’s the work of the Islamist rebels, who have a penchant for that sort of outdated weapon. This is also bolstered by the fact that Syrian rebels seized Syria’s only chlorine-gas manufacturing plant last August, and it’s controlled by Jabhat al-Nusra, a militant group with strong ties to al-Qaeda.
Back to that video… could that be, perhaps, the victims of the same fight/attack when they seized that factory back in August 2012, thus why they could release a video showing the victims of chemical weapons, months before the chemical weapon attack occurred? Wouldn’t surprise me…
The other theory is that the Syrian government, attempting to frame the rebels, used the very weapon they are prone to use. Of course the problem with that is they would have to have seized a stockpile of the chlorine almost a year before the Aleppo bombings from the only chlorine factory in the State.
So what’s the truth? Hey, there are no good guys here. But if I had to wager on the culprit, it sure wouldn’t be the Assad regime with the mountain of evidence to the contrary.
@Dc, my bet was that is was the palace patio furniture. :0)
@Greg, can’t speak for anyone else, but my opinion on Syria is let them all kill each other, and we’ll deal with who’s left standing. Never pays to interfere in a civil war between Muslims. The Russians learned that the hard way in the 80s.
INRE Obama’s backing down… well, the guy may out cowboy Bush in the drone war, but he can’t pull off the swagger. Bush always pushed forward with convictions, said what he meant, and acted on what he said…. whether you agreed with his policies and convictions or not. Obama’s a fence walking, can’t-make-a-decision kind of guy. Always afraid to take one side over the other in foreign policy. I have no doubt that he regrets his words INRE the “red line”. Figured it would all be lip service from the moment he said it. But then, it was an election season.
On the flip side, he promised to invade Pakistan sovereign territory without their permission to get UBL when campaigning 2007-08, and he did. So occasionally his swagger is like the proverbial broken clock.
Curt,
You have captured this Administration here.
Obama seems to have no problem directing and watching the joystick manipulation of young-and-old-human-flesh-shredding bombs delivered by stealth drone – from the comfort of a leather chair in the W.H.
Making large decisions which don’t have broad public support is beyond both his pay-grade and capacity. Leaders are supposed to make decisions on which the public doesn’t have all the facts. He laid the red line down. That was easy, . . . stupid, but easy – ok, really, really stupid. When you’re incompetent, you don’t anticipate the repercussions of your mouth or decisions, . . . and you just don’t care. Long term harm to the Nation? . . . . Don’t care. Image? Now he cares. Perhaps the next election will place someone in the Oval Office who’s run something and succeeded.
Call it callous if you will but I have no problem with muslims in Syria, or any other Middle East country, fragging each other on a regular basis without any interference from the US….Not that I am an isolationist mind you but the Syrians seem to be getting the job done (slaughtering each other) without any American blood being spilled in that waste land of humanity…
Obama’s line isn’t exactly what would be called a thin red line. In fact it’s so wide nobody can possibly get acrossed it.
@another vet, #7:
I recall citing evidence that the particular story in question was retracted the day following its initial appearance. As I recall, the initial report was typical FOX News blather. I’m disinclined to waste an hour of my time looking for any of that again.
I’ve never seen any credible report of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction being found, other than old ordinance long past its expiration date. If there were credible evidence there would be no lingering controversy. The Bush administration would have posted the specifics on a spotlighted billboard on the White House lawn. I see no reason to believe that anything else existed.
@MataHarley, #8:
I’ve got to agree with you on that.
@Greg: This is getting WAY old. This was one of the documents. Look at the numbers in the report. It says 500 not a few like you have repeatedly claimed. Follow on documents in the wikileaks stated that more were discovered after this report. I’m not going to go looking for that again as well. The Pentagon didn’t dismiss what was revealed in this document. What they dismissed were the claims made on FOX that these were the WMD that served as the WMD part of the reason for going to war.
http://www.reasons-for-war-with-iraq.info/iraq_wmd_declassified.pdf
@MataHarley: Mata, my response was rushed and in between other ranch duties.
Obama laid down the law like Ghengis Khan, but now that the Red Line has been crossed, he ends up looking like Little Bo Peep. Like the quintessential paper tiger, he now is treading water hoping for some solution to materialize from somewhere, because he doesn’t have a solution.
There may not be a solution, but why stand up and lay down the law when you have no options. It’s true, he managed to look like the supreme commander of the world for a few minutes, but that image is now bankrupt.
The fact that Kerry refused to accept Israeli intelligence is interesting. Intelligence is expensive in several different ways, why would anyone refuse intelligence?
Could it be that our administration doesn’t want to be confronted with the absolute facts or are they afraid of some chicanery? We have our own intelligence people who could analyze the material and determine if it is straight forward. Hopefully our intelligence groups are not run by the type of incompetent dolts Obama takes on for national security advisors.
@Skookum, yessir… I know your work schedule. :0)
First, INRE Obama, you’ll notice that my last two paragraphs did not dispute Obama’s foolhardy hoof’n’mouth swagger. That’s a non debate point here, IMHO.
As for the Israeli intelligence. Well, don’t much care about what Kerry or the State Dept has to say. But the DoD and their Israeli counterpart to Hagel are very much talking about their intelligence. I’d also bet that the CIA has it’s own eyes on the data as well. So I’d say that the US isn’t turning it’s back on what Israel has to say and that the more appropriate agencies are involved and perusing.
But you can best believe this admin is going to hold a very high standard of evidence before they start rushing into Syria… as they should… tho I did see a WaPo article suggesting that arming the rebels was getting close to a possibility.
Frankly I prefer POTUS inaction over wrong headed POTUS action… dumb, dumber and dumbest.
But back to that evidence. None of the agencies has physical proof as admitted. And I would also tend to be wary if BeBe won’t substantiate the claim himself. He’s not a guy that restrains himself unless it’s prudent to do so…. such as in not having quite enough to lay it on the line, with no qualms.
As a matter of fact, BeBe gave strict orders to public officials *not* to discuss the chem weapons in public. BeBe’s response, alone – designed to minimize the backlash from anticipated non int’l action – is enough to make me suspect the strength of the evidence when weighed against the repercussions of interference.
But here’s the same problem. The claims are that Assad’s regime used the chemical weapons in the last month (Aleppo and subsequent smaller attacks). Yet the video the Syrian rebels provided (your link) was from circa Dec 2012. So how does that fit in to the mix? How do the videotaped injuries happen before the event dates?
Lastly, I’m with Greg in the burning question… what is it you want him to do? I can see that everyone wants to rake Obama over the coals for not following up on his “red line” in the sand bit. After all, “Obama did x” today is the favored blood sport here, and real news be damned. But is that just for self serving ridicule? Or is there some sort of follow up suggestion to correct his inept swaggering? i.e. are you suggesting let’s pack up the gear and head out to Damascus with guns a’blazing?
Count me out on that one.
I want him to look the the fool with his foot in his mouth, and stay out of it. I’ll take a tarnished image of a supreme leader over getting in between a bunch of Muslim bad guys, fighting over power. Besides, that “supreme leader” is a temporary denizen, and will be replaced soon enough. I’m not sure what the rest of you want.
@another vet, #14:
It got old a long time ago. From the Key Points on the final page of the PDF you linked:
The letter is referring to old, degraded material, most likely dating from the days of the Iraq/Iran war—the 1980-1988 period. Still hazardous and potentially lethal, but no longer the usable weapons they started out as. Finding 500 such relics scattered around and lost in remote Iraqi locations is hardly surprising, considering the massive scale of the Iraq/Iran conflict. I have no doubt there is more. There’s still potentially dangerous crap turning up across Europe, an entire century after the First World War.
The point is that these are not the Weapons of Mass Destruction that the Bush administration conjured up to justify a full-scale invasion of Iraq. So far as anyone has been able to prove, those existed only in the imagination.
Old talking points, Greg. WMD were *never* the only “whereas” in the AUMF, or the sole reason for deposing Hussein. It wasn’t even the most important reason, since we did know that Saddam was cooperating with Islamists and hosting terrorist training camps, as well as acquiring proscribed missiles post 1998, which UNMOVIC found in a Netherlands junkyard. Drive the terrorist cockroaches out of Afghanistan, and they’d run to the friendly digs of Iraq and Saddam. They were also very handy for him to use when smuggling across the borders, avoiding sanctions, and bypassing the OFF. Even the members of your own party know that.
The focus on WMD was for one purpose only – to be the key element to entice global support via the UN… a demand that your party always makes. That the US doesn’t act unilaterally.
Ironic since if you really want to lose a war and screw up a military operation, you call NATO. Afghanistan started falling apart the very month that NATO was awarded full responsibilities for Afghanistan’s security in the summer of 2006.
Oddly enough, with history challenged media and citizens with the memories of a gnat, the myth of WMD’s being the only reason for OIF took root…. despite being far from true.
@MataHarley, #18:
The Weapons of Mass Destruction angle wasn’t only used to sell the war to our allies. I think it was also used to sell an unnecessary war to Congress and the American people. In my opinion, logical arguments alone never would have convinced either that there was any real need to invade Iraq. That’s what makes the entire WMD issue central.
The fear created by 9/11 was redirected. The entire pitch came down to frightening imagery—to talk of a spreading mushroom cloud, as if some national disaster were imminent. That’s what sold the war, in my opinion. Fear, not logic. Fear overriding logic.
Greg, now you know that WMD wasn’t the only reason for Congressional support by *both* parties. Clinton codified Iraq regime change as US and Congressional policy with the Iraq Liberation Act in 1998. If you read the findings in Section 2, you’ll note that WMD isn’t even a blip on the legislative radar, but plenty of other reasons are.
Again, you are proving that when someone repeats a lie often enough in the media, it can take root. What is missing is that people would rather just parrot the lie rather then take a refresher course in history. That’s a pity that so many are intellectually lazy.
So once again, “WMD” being the reason was never the only, nor primary reason, for regime change in Iraq.. And you can look back to your own Dem POTUS in 1998 for agreement on that policy.
Now if you want to talk about politics, and the penchant for “spreading fear”, I’m afraid that you can’t take the high road on that. Both parties engage in the fear game. Obama campaigned on it not once, but twice. Partisan hacks at all levels – both sides – practice it daily. Fact is Clinton, Bush, Congress… they didn’t need the public’s favorable opinion to act. They have the power to do so if they think it’s best. What they do is go ahead, then formulate a message for the masses as explanation. That’s unimportant to the actual implementation.
What was important to the implementation was attempting to get the UNSC on board.. and that was the entire reason for the WMD argument since it was the only thing that the Security Counsel would care about.
@MataHarley: Definitely not! We don’t need to choose sides in Muslim Wars or even act as a referee. It is the Will Kane image Obama projected before the war heated up or until twenty minutes before noon, this is what has not only irritated me, but compromised America’s image as well. One of the surest ways to invite problems is to appear to be a cowardly braggart.
It is not our responsibility to make sure civil wars are fought with acceptable barbarity, especially Muslim Civil Wars.
Why should we help al Qaeda or the Muslim Brotherhood gain control of another country, at the expense of another dictator who was only a minor irritant. The alternative is to help our enemies achieve power, control, and prestige.
While Obama stands pontificating, Russia sells weapons to Assad (using the predatory instincts of a capitalist to make money from sectarian violence) and warns the rest of the world, but mainly us, to keep our hands off.
This is a dangerous situation; the assassination of an obscure archduke ignited WWI. Stupid diplomacy only increases the opportunity of conflagration and Obama, relying on his community organizing mindset and willingness to play the role of the ghetto thug or bully, is woefully ill prepared to be trying to impress the rest of the world with his Chicago South Side machismo.
Step back a minute and breathe, Skook. Look at what you wrote. “Compromised America’s image”? With the Muslim world? We didn’t have a good image with them before. With the Eurozone? Well, they were pretty PO’ed at Bush’s more aggressive policy. So we weren’t tops in their book either.
Fact is, the US isn’t well liked anywhere around the world… and hasn’t been since the “ugly American” days of the 50s on. Allies disdain us as self-absorbed, spoiled and crude. Enemies despise us for whatever reason they want that day. So our image isn’t “tarnished”, nor is it tied to a temporary leader who occupies the WH for a total of eight years max. There was Carter, but following him came Reagan. There was Clinton, followed by Bush. The global community knows very well that the US is not permanently defined by who sits in the Oval Office that year. This country will survive Obama and his hoof’n’mouth disease. Not sure it will survive decades of irresponsible Congressional members who put unsustainable programs into place, tho.
I’m not sure what you’re saying in the rest of your comment. I believe I was quite clear in stating that we have no business interfering in any Muslim civil war, and that Obama should do nothing but stand there with his foot in his mouth. Russia and China will do what Russia and China do. Still doesn’t mean we should do anything. As I said, let ’em all kill each other. We’ll deal with what’s left standing.
INRE “stupid diplomacy”… well, that’s the calling card of this administration. However you’ll notice that Israel and a few other countries have also used the “red line” analogy, and they aren’t acting either. Some of this playing down of so called “evidence” is because they don’t want an obvious reason for anyone to run in there, guns a’blazing. However the word game played when they all did the “red line” speech was that they were trying to state there are some lines that can’t be crossed, simply to evoke caution and prudent behavior from all players.
Frankly, I think the rebels are playing the int’l community as fools in this. What with the major assault being chlorine gas… accessible only to the rebels/AQ affiliates… and smaller attacks with unnamed gases that may have been acquired in small amounts from smuggled black market, I think the rebels are trying to force the US into doing a “Libya” no fly zone, to help them win.
This should be resisted by this admin. Don’t know that it will, but it should be. Don’t care what he said, or how much the paper tiger he appears .. see paragraphs above. The US and our military will survive Obama, just as it’s done inferior POTUS in the past.
@MataHarley: “are you suggesting let’s pack up the gear and head out to Damascus with guns a’blazing?” The commentary 0f #20 above meant to use this question as an introduction.
@Nan G:
…does Obama want an explanation of Dar Al Islam
How many Christian/Jews make trips to Pakistan?
The solution is for the president not to make a fool of himself.
Let’s think back to the unarmed college students being shot in the streets of Iran. Obama said, we need to see how this plays out. The students were begging for help from the U.S and specifically from the Community Organizer. Obama cares less if secular college students were slaughtered to preserve fundamentalist power and control, but when armed Muslims are in open warfare with a secular government, Muslims who are our sworn enemies, and are being slaughtered, he must be the ever pretentious fool, the boor of the party who must be the center of attention. Do I think we should follow-up on his favorite Muslim Bracket picks for this particular tournament, Hell No!
We have issues at home, like trying to assimilate potential terrorists and shoplifters with an ever-increasing amount of swag from welfare. If only we wouldn’t have dashed the dreams of an amateur boxer with the imposition of rules, he wouldn’t have felt compelled to kill and blow the legs off so many people to express his frustration.
@Greg:
Fear, not logic. Fear overriding logic.
Yup – a megalomaniac using chemical weapons to suppress internal dissident. Nothing to fear there.
Glenn McCoy has captured Obama on Syria perfectly in this April 30, 2013 political cartoon:
@MataHarley:
True, but we’ve always kept our word. I agree with your earlier response; let them kill each other and we’ll deal with those that are left. The “Red Line” comment should never have been uttered.
I think we just need to move everyone out of the region. Put people to work on that 7.6 billion barrels of shale in ND, recover triple the early estimates of natural gas, build the Keystone pipeline, and watch the middle east return to the desert.
Aqua and Skook, I don’t disagree that the “red line” drawn shouldn’t have been brought up by our POTUS. But it’s also true that both the UK’s David Cameron and Israel also said that. Hang, even Iran said the same thing. Obama is not the only one with empty swagger. But then, some of that is likely just to be posturing, hoping for effect… especially if multiple nations gang up with the same style of rhetoric.
Right now you have GOP/conservatives pushing for military intervention. This is a crazy and irresponsible move, *especially* if it’s only done to save face. Who cares if Obama looks the fool. He is… and has been. But then he’s not king, and not a dictator. Jan 2017, someone else will hold down that Oval Office chair. And for the damage that a pacifist, Jimmy Carter, did, Reagan reversed that forthwith. Clinton was a lightweight on response and prevention, and he was followed by the “cowboy”, Bush. ’tis the nature of our government. Our policies change with the leadership, and our enemies never know who’s coming next.
Can’t agree with moving people out of the region. I believe that foreign bases are necessary for effective deployment, if necessary, and local intel.
@MataHarley: #37,
“America’s image” – I suspect that Skook was inferring ‘strong’ rather than ‘weak,’ as opposed to America not being ‘liked’ as a result of the flexible red line idiocy, or the current leadership. In the face of autocratic tyrannical governance, or the potential for such, only ‘strength’ and ultimately force, will accomplish anything.
While this may be the portrayal which most foreign governments, particularly the unfriendlies, use to their own internal advantage since the United States is a useful scapegoat, many people around the world wish they could live in a free environment like that of America, and many are thankful that America, for half a century at least, has acted as policeman.
Right now, there are millions of South Koreans (people and politicians) who are extremely grateful for the American presence on their soil and in the waters just off their coast. They know that this presence is the only thing that stands in the way of an invasion from the lunacy to their North. While many Asian countries may not be free of internal strife, they have felt a confidence that for the most part, their borders have not been at risk because American presence has never been too far distant. Obviously, this is changing.
If you look to the whining Europeans, and from whence the term “ugly American” emanated, . . . same thing. U.S. bases have for 60 years provided a great deal of ‘peace of mind’. That peace of mind is profound, even if it is sometimes resented. Europeans (people not politicians) worry when they see America’s leadership wobble – that’s America’s Image being disturbed.
Whether “strong” or “liked”, makes no difference, James Raider. The general perception is that the Bush admin was “strong” and aggressive… even tho Obama has out cowboy’d Bush in the drone war. Didn’t change a thing, did it?
Arguing how the US is perceived is about as effective as exploring what we can do to prevent Islamists from practicing jihad. Whether the Great Satan is “strong” or “weak” in their view is irrelevant. It still won’t stop them.
INRE global “appreciation” for the US. Yes, it’s there.. and somewhat begrudgingly. They are happy to take our global “police force” for granted, and still criticize us as spoiled and self absorbed. No reason they can’t do both, right?
I agree with letting Assad’s forces & the al Qaeda/Muslim Brotherhood backed “rebels” kill each other. What concerns me is the non-combatants.
IMO the only sensible move for the rest of the world, is to set up a few neutral zone area villages as refugee camps for those caught in the middle. With of course, policies that spell-out very clearly that if you claim to be a refugee, and enter you will have to stay inside until the civil war has played out (necessary to keep rebels from using the camps to heal, recoup and go back out.
@MataHarley:
The only people Obama continues a strong and aggressive stance with is Republicans and conservatives. As far as the rest of the world is concerned, he is a weak-kneed putz who can be ignored, manipulated or laughed off.
@Greg: Not the issue. The issue was you claimed that only a few were found (read your original statement in #6) when in fact it was 500 and you knew it was 500 but still claimed it was only a few. Why did you state it was only a few when you knew it was more and then admitted that probably more were found? He wasn’t supposed to have any WMD, old or new. And as been demonstrated here numerous times, it wasn’t just Bush who claimed he had new WMD. It was Clinton and a whole lot of others who made the same claims prior to Bush becoming POTUS. And suspected WMD wasn’t the only reason he was removed from power. Since I was mobilizing at Ft. Bragg at the time, I’d also like to see the ad or whatever it was with the mushroom clouds because I didn’t get to see it and being a history buff, would have liked to. Please provide the link.
http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=15918
That’s almost beside the point. It is well known that the Assads spent years building up their own chemical stockpile. They were rumored to have one of the World’s largest.
If Bashar wants to break out the bug spray, let him. It’s too bad but by now there is no “good” action we can take in Syria. Obama’s own fault to draw a “red line”, let him squirm.
I just heard that AHMAGEDDIN was arrested, yes in case I mispronounce his name,
the IRAN PRESIDENT, ARRESTED,
they held him up for 7 hours and told him to stop creating problem to the REGIME,
they let him go,
ANOTHER NEWS from from HEZBOLLAH chief warns group could intervene in SYRIA,
BEIRUT_THE LEADER OF HEZBOLLAH militant group said yesterday APRIL 30,
that SYRIAN rebels WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DEFEAT PRESIDENT BASHAR ASSAD”S REGIME
MILITARILY, warning that SYRIA’S ” real friends” including his IRANIAN-back militant group,
where ready to intervene on the GOVERNMENT ‘S side,
HEZBOLLAH a powerful SHIITE muslim group is known to back SYRIAN regime fighters
in SHIITE villages near the LEBANON border against the mostly SUNNI rebels fighting to topple ASSAD.
the comments by SHEIK HASSAN NASRALLAH where the strongest indication yet,
that his group was ready to get far more involved to rescue ASSAD”S embattled regime.
you will not be able to take DAMASCUS by force and you will not be able to topple the regime militaily,
this is a long battle, he said addressing the SYRIAN opposition.
SYRIA has real friends in the region and in the WORLD, WHO WILL NOT ALLOW SYRIA to fall into the hands of AMERICA or ISRAEL.
Yeah. I always thought that Ahmedinnerjacket would finally stage a Night of Long Knives on the Ayatollahs and make himself ruler of Iran but it looks like his leash has been drastically shortened.
And, yes. I have heard that Bashar has been staging a major offensive in Syria and is recapturing territory. He may end up winning after all. Personally, I would prefer that to seeing yet another radical Islamist state established.
I was cut of the first part, but the rest is : HEZBOLLAH and IRAN are close allies of ASSAD,
REBELS have accuse them of sending fighters to assist SYRIAN troops trying to crush the 2year old anti ASSAD uprising which the UN say has killed more than 70000 people,
the deeper and over HEZBOLLAH involvement in the SYRIAN CONFLICT is almost certain to threaten stability in LEBANON which is split between supporters and opponents of ASSAD ,
it risk drawing in ISRAEL and IRAN into a wider MIDDLE EAST WAR,
here is some of the first part which was erase: what SHEIK HASSAN NASRALLAH said
the rebels will not be able to defeat PRESIDENT ASSAD militarily,
he warn that SYRIA real friends LEBANON HEZBOLLA and IRANIAN”S backed militant group where ready to intervene on the government side, a powerful SHIITE MUSLIM GROUP is known to back
SYRIAN regime fighters in SHIITE VILLAGES near LEBANON BORDER against the mostly SUNNI rebels
fighting to topple ASSAD , the comment from SHEIK where the strongest telling that his group is ready
to rescue ASSAD’S embattled regime ,
you will not be able to defeat ASSAD , and you will not be able to take DAMASCUS, this is a long battle,
to continue an important part, is: the SHEIK said
SYRIA has real friends in the region and in the WORLD who will not allow SYRIA to to fall into the HANDS OF AMERICA or ISRAEL,
FROM ME, if we mix up with that we will have many deaths on our side and we will be surrounded
this time, EVEN NORTH KOREA MIGHT CHIP IN THIS ONE,
unless we have THE FEW NUKES in our pocket
I just notice my first one is here, I thought it was erase,
my apology for having repeated it
Doramin
I agree with you,
thank you,
there was an attack on a PRIME MINISTER IN DAMASCUS,
and it was confirmed that ALQUAEDA is there busy with BOMBS and SUICIDE BOMBERS
targeting the DIPLOMATS or high ranking government PEOPLE in SYRIA,
no more guessing on that,
@Greg: numb nuts. If chemical munitions have such a short life, why are we still demilling chemical weapons yet? Dont you ever feel ashamed about your ignorance? Smart people would stop advertizing how dumb they are instead of making posts like you make time after time.
@MataHarley:
I mean our fighting forces. We can always leave intel folks in the area. As for staging areas, we already have plenty. We don’t need to be in the ME to stage for effective deployment. We’ve staged out of Diego Garcia for many years. Lovely place, Diego Garcia; a tropical paradise. Just be respectful of the Queen’s crabs.
“Technically”, Aqua, we don’t have US fighting forces officially in any nation but Afghanistan at the moment. Iraq’s US military is “supposed” to be present only for training purposes, etc. So using that particular description, our fighting forces already out of the region, save for AfPAK.
But US foreign military installations is an interesting subject. Between a 2010 DoD report on base personnel, and analysis of that from Politicfact , fact checking Ron Paul’s claim of 130 foreign bases, there’s 13 facilities outside US soil and territories that have more than 1000 personnel. They are Belgium, Germany, Italy, Spain, Turkey, the United Kingdom, Japan, Bahrain, Djibouti, South Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan and Kuwait.
The largest concentration of personnel is in the Euro installations – Germany, Japan, Italy, and the UK. For the Near and Middle East, plus North Africa Bahrain is the highest concentration with 1349 permanent personnel, leaving “deployed” numbers out of the mix.
For deployment numbers, and staying with the same circa Sept 2010 data, Iraq’s Operation New Dawn (OND) had 96,200 as of Sept 2010 (via the DoD report). Probably less now. (The latest reports are here) Afghanistan’s OEF had 105,900… 202,100 total. The March 2012 version of the same statistics doesn’t break out OEF and OND individually, but has a rounded deployed total of 154,100. If we use the Dec 2011 deployment figures for Iraq’s OND, about 49,800 of those would be active personnel and Reserve Guard in Iraq.
Whether there should be any small footprint left in Iraq and Afghanistan poses good debate. I’d say Iraq, yes… more modern civilization than tribal Afghanistan. But the future of Bagram, or Kandahar’s facility, isn’t likely to lie with the US after a certain point. It used to be occupied by the Russians during their attempts to occupy Afghanistan. But inbetween their bug out in 1989 and US entry Dec 2001, the Taliban and Northern Alliance fought over it’s possession. So who knows what it’s future will be. But we sure built it up from it’s original construction in the 50s.
There is probably a good argument for strategic selection of what to keep, and how to pare down. But I still don’t agree you can do everything from any single location.
@MataHarley:
“Technically,” we didn’t have an US fighting forces in Vietnam, until we did. I know what you mean though. The “training assistance” in the Congo isn’t considered a “fighting force.”
I’m not on board with Ron Paul’s foreign policy, but neither do I discount everything he has to say. There is so much waste in the military, and it isn’t just due to the number of foreign bases. Diego Garcia is just one staging area, one that I singled out because I’ve been there a few times. Another one you mentioned, Djibouti, a place I haven’t been. My brother was there for a while though. He said they played a game called guess that smell every morning. Not a nice place.
I think foreign bases should be looked at and justified every five years. That is about how often our strategic goals tend to shift. We never seem to be able to get rid of a federal program once it’s in place. The same tends to be true about foreign bases; once there, they are there to stay.
OTTAWA CANADA warn of migrants from IRAN with SINISTER MOTIVES,
CANADA BORDER AGENCY has flagged the possibility of IRANIANS with SINISTER MOTIVES
SLIPPING INTO THE COUNTRY_ A WARNING that came in the months leading to the arrest
of 2 men charged with plotting to ATTACK A VIA RAIL TRAIN WITH HELP FROM ALQAIDA
in IRAN,
a CANADA BORDER AGENCY said 19 IRANIANS NATINALS had been found inadmissible
on security grounds since 2008_ the majority of them refugee claimants lacking proper documentation.
IRAN is the number one source COUNTRY of improperly documented migrants who make refugee claim in CANADA sais the report, which a part of it remain secret,
they used FACILITATOR to enter CANADA ,
information provided by the migrants on their smugglers suggest possible link to organized
criminal elements both wihin and outside CANADA,
the BORDER AGENCY cite the 2012 conviction of a man for smuggling two IRANIANS to VANCOUVER FROM CHINA USING PHONEY ISRAELI PASSPORTS
the number of IRANIANS making refugee claim in CANADA is about 300 per year,
in 2011 more than 85% where granted azylum
@Randy, #42:
Because we had very large stockpiles, and because—even when they’re long past their expiration date—you can’t just flush chemical agents down the city sewer, or have Waste Management haul them off to the local landfill.
For your physical complaint, I suggest you consult a doctor.
@Greg: So you are saying they can not be flushed down the drain because they are still hazardous? Which is it? They are not viable or they are? Have you ever been involved in testing these “old” chemical munitions? I have. They are still viable and you again do not know what you are talking about!
Unfortunately, like as not, they’ll probably be dumped in the Mediterranean. Just as huge WWI stockpiles were simply tossed into the North Sea. Over the decades fishermen have been badly hurt by ancient, leaking mustard munitions turning up in nets.
@Doramin: No one can be hurt. Greg says old WMD is not viable. He is so smart!
@Randy: I’ve yet to see someone volunteer to have themselves exposed, unprotected by MOPP gear, to the non-threatenting content of these older WMD. If they were so sure of themselves, they should put their money where their mouth is and volunteer as a human guinea pig to prove their point.
@Greg:
you can’t just flush chemical agents down the city sewer
We know. We saw the convoy of trucks travel from Ba’athist Iraq to Ba’athist Syria.
how does one COUNTRY get rid of that?
apart from selling it to other COUNTRIES,
or throw it in the water a no no,
or bury it with potential future disaster
to the unknown settlers.
where do they hide it or get rid of it?
it seem to be a dangerous forever keepsake,
surely, you don’t destroy chimicals with oter chimicals
can you?
Mata asks “what would you have Obama do?” Assad a madman killing his own people like Gaddafi. The rebels clearly a majority are now A.Q. Why are Conservs. calling for the arming of A.Q. rebels?
I was for non combatant intervention against Col K and Mubarek. Not here.
Maybe Israelis will take him out.
Richard Wheeler
yes you are right
either way is not for us to help or kill,
they are doing a good job at it,
and who is dead are not coming back,
we can always keep an eye to make sure they don’t spread the hate outside,
and support ISRAEL in doing just that,
where where you?
we where looking for you all over the POST,
did you check on the CURT POST about JIMMY a MARINE sick with PTSD spreading lies against the MARINES? getting popular with the MEDIAS taking his words for cash,
bye
@Richard Wheeler:
I’m not seeing that many Conservative’s calling for arming the rebels, but I do see that the Obama Administration is now considering it. Most of us here are saying don’t take sides in the civil war, and let the rebels and Assad’s forces take each other out.
The concerns however are refugees and the WMD arsenals. It may be necessary for the UN or NATO to do surgical strikes on these warehouses to stop further use of the stockpiled chemical weapons.