Jimmy Carter is Rick Perry’s biggest fan…[Reader Post]

I’ll only comment on your real estate analysis. California housing prices are easily 3 to 4 times the cost of comparable houses in Texas. It has nothing at all to do with “regulation,” it has to do with the fact that California has 50% more people, 40% less land, and, subtracting the utterly uninhabitable desert and mountain regions, probably 75% less land suitable for development. California also has a vastly superior climate. It’s a fact that jobs in California are concentrated predominately in the coastal counties and that prime real estate in these areas has long since been taken. This is what caused California’s real estate values to soar, relative to the rest of the nation, long before the great housing bubble of the 2000s.

The biggest problem for California’s economy isn’t regulation or taxes (California’s total taxes are 10.6%, compared to 7.9% for Texas, which is a 2.8% difference, but per capita income in California is 16% greater). So the big competitive disadvantage for California, with regard to Texas, isn’t “regulation” and taxes; it is housing costs which are 3-4 fold higher and costs of labor which are 16% higher.

Anyway, the so-called Texas “economic miracle” is grossly exaggerated. It’s largely based on the growth of public sector (government) jobs; as opposed to private sector jobs.

– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA

In CA property taxes are raised when a property changes hands.
And even with the bubble popping home owners had to jump through hoops to get re-assessed downwards.
So, renters pay a lot more here than in Texas.
And homeowners do, too.
In our 27 condos, oldsters like us pay only a hundred dollars a year in property tax.
BUT new(er) owners pay many times that, twice a year.
The cost of living is cheaper in Texas.

Larry, this may be pedantic, but do you have any numbers behind your citations from the Post article? A quick guess as to why so many Texans lack insurance may be because they are here illegally. A porous border to Mexico and lots of job opportunities will attract more people looking for jobs.

And as to it ranking 47th in the country on levels of toxins released that is going to be caused by having a higher share of its economy in oil and gas production. The better question is how do the level of pollutants fare against what are considered safe levels by the EPA? I’m not suggesting that pollutants are a good thing, but they are a bi-product of life.

Talking points are nice to quote, but without the full picture they’re meaningless.

@ Larry
Let me take the issue of the Amazon tax first. California has every right to tax whomever they wish. Businesses and people have the right to leave if that is not what they want. So, I’m just pointing out what the Amazon law is doing. I think it’s wrong because buying online is no different that buying from a catalog was in the old days.
The article you cite is titled 5 theories why everyone is moving to Texas?
I lived in California for 10 years, from ’86 to ’96’. I wsa in the Air Force at March AFB until Janaury of ’90. I eventually moved to Palmdale and worked in Burbank. I worked on a lot of Movie Star’s airplanes. (By the way, Clint Eastwood is the coolest man on the planet). The only reason I bring it up is because I now live in Georgia, and I don’t miss California even a little.
You are right about venture capital, it’s not even close. No other State even comes close. I took a look at this just to check, but I knew you were right.
http://www.ssti.org/vc/
The reason for this is pretty simple, Silicon Valley is in California. The concentrated brain power in that area brings about some of the greatest ideas in the tech world. But that could be changing too. Adobe and Twitter both decided to expand outside of California. They chose Utah. Finally, I think you will find this amusing; I did. http://scobleizer.com/2009/03/24/is-california-is-setup-for-a-brain-drain/

@openid.aol.com/runnswim:

Larry, if you think there are no mountain ranges in Texas and it is just one big, flat pancake over which the wind rolls, you have never been to Texas. But I have an excellent idea; why doesn’t California just stop buying power and gasoline produced in Texas? Create your own power plants and your own refineries. Start building those refineries and power plants so that you won’t wind up in the dark after having run out of gas on Hwy. 101. Then, get back to me about your air quality. Perhaps you are just ticked because Rick Perry refused to sell anymore electicity to Gray Davis until California paid their tab for electricity they already bought? Seems Davis wanted to keep your state free of power production facitilities while stiffing Texas. He found out differently and you have black/brown outs.

Oh, Governor Moonbeam’s actions will have an effect on brick and mortor stores. When Amazon pulled its 10,000 affiliates, that means that those stores will no longer benefit from Amazon. How many do you think will probably go out of business?

Now, do you deny that California gives welfare, Medicare and Medicaid to illegals? Because somewhere I read it did. How much do you think that costs? Well, if you are willing to pay the taxes to put illegals on a state health care plan when they work under the table and pay no taxes, that is your choice. Perhaps you think you will personally benefit from that, considering your profession.

But I am glad that you like living in California. It will keep you from moving to Texas and bringing your statist philosophy with you. Just don’t expect the rest of us to bail your state out when it finally collapses.

And fron the Center from Education Statistics

2009

8th grade math: National average 282
California – 270 with 59% @ basic level
Texas – 287 with 78% @ basic level

8th grade reading: National level 262
California – 253 with 64% @ basic level
Texas – 260 with 73% @ basic level

8th grade science: National level 149
California – 137 with 48% @ basic level
Texas – 150 with 64% @ basic level

8th grade writing (2007): National level 154
California – 148 with 83% @ basic level
Texas – 151 with 86% @ basic level

In two out of four, Texas met national levels while California did not meet any of the four. But I am sure you will find a way to disagree with the federal government.

@openid.aol.com/runnswim: You said:

The biggest problem for California’s economy isn’t regulation…

Nah, the more regulations, the better, right Larry?

Hi Retire (12):

I’ve been to Dallas, San Antonio, and Houston, but never to West Texas (where I suppose that what passes for “mountains” in Texas are located) — otherwise known as East New Mexico (I’m kidding).

You asserted that Texas has superior high school graduation rates. I looked that one up:

http://www.all4ed.org/publication_material/understanding_HSgradrates

HS Graduation rates by state:
Texas California

65 68 Total
56 57 Hispanic
53 55 AA

Pretty even. With regard to 8th grade test scores — interesting data you cite. I don’t challenge, but I guess I’d want to read more about the interpretation of such scores at a statewide level, broken down by socioeconomic groups, etc.

e.g. number of “illegals” enrolled and number of “illegals” taking the test in different states — this isn’t known
.
I do know that Texas ranks near last in SAT scores. But to interpret this, you’d need to know what percent of students were from different groups; how many took the SATs, etc.

The point is, HS grad stats are hard numbers. You record who entered school in the 9th grade. You record who graduated. You determine a percentage.

With regard to California providing “welfare, Medicare, and Medicaid” to illegals — I won’t play gotcha with regard to Medicare (of course it doesn’t; it’s a Federal program and requires registration with Social Security number).

As for the rest, it’s not that simple. Firstly, babies born to “illegals” are US citizens, and, therefore receive the same types of welfare as other citizen babies (and children). Secondly, the US govt requires “free” public education of all kids (a policy with which I agree). Thirdly, federal law also requires emergency medical care for everyone, legal or not. Fourthly, illegals do get Medi-CAL (our version of Medicaid). This might be the main difference between California and Texas, illegal-support-wise. Fifthly (out of order, but I forgot this one): “illegals” who graduate from California high schools get in state tuition at public colleges and universities. This was upheld by the Supreme Court of the US. If Texas doesn’t want to provide health care to non-citizens or give them in state tuition, then that’s fine; they can do what they want. Just as we in CA can do what we want, regarding these issues. What a country!

But the idea that Texas is this private sector job creating dynamo, owing to a tax structure which is only marginally lower, or owing to fewer “regulations,” in an unsupportable claim. Since 2007, while most of the rest of the nation was dealing with the consequences of the economic meltdown, Texas was fortunate to have received nearly half of all the public sector job growth in America, even as it was losing private sector jobs. That was my original point.

Hi Antics (#15): I’m not “defending” China. I’m simply explaining that the term “Commie” doesn’t do anything but give away the age of a Baby Boomer. That phrase is oh so 20th Century. China is not a communist country. China is an authoritarian capitalist country. It was simply a point of clarification.

– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA

China is an authoritarian capitalist country

Good lord larry, are you truly that delusional? Apparently yes.
China is a Communist country that allows limited Capitalist ventures. They can erase all that at a moment’s whim. The more you post the more it becomes clear you are a moonbat trying hard to pretend you aren’t.

@openid.aol.com/runnswim: You said:

As for the rest, it’s not that simple. Firstly, babies born to “illegals” are US citizens…

That is debatable.

Hi Retire05 (continuing):

More on the so-called “Texas Miracle:”

Take a look at the following graphs:

http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/G_growthdistriblong.jpg

http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/tx_Kyns.png

http://jaredbernsteinblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/tx_Kynstbl.png

link

What this clearly shows is that the so-called Texas Miracle is simple Keynesian economics. While losing private sector jobs, Texas was massively adding public sector jobs. Massive meaning nearly half of all public sector jobs created in the USA since 2007 were created in Texas. During this same period of time, California was massively losing public sector jobs. Thirty percent of all the government jobs lost in the USA since 2007 have been lost by California.

So Texas has added nearly 50% of all public workers added in the USA since 2007 and California has removed 30% of all public workers removed in the USA since 2007. In theory, California is doing it “right” (massively shedding government employees) and Texas is doing it “wrong” (massively adding government employees). So why is the Texas employment picture better than California’s?

1. Vastly higher cost of living in California
2. Vastly more Keynesian job stimulus in Texas.

Your comment (#23), in general, describes the biggest difference between California and Texas, and it’s not taxes and it’s not “regulation,” it’s cost of living. The biggest driver to cost of living in California is the cost of our real estate. Our houses cost 3 to 4 times the cost of comparable houses in Texas and our rents are correspondingly higher, as well. The reason for the high cost of real estate is because of the high cost of land.

The reason for the high cost of land has nothing to do with regulation and everything to do with the fact that California has 50% more people, crammed into the coastal counties which are home to most of the jobs. This creates the need for higher wages. It also creates traffic. So you’ve got very high cost of living and congestion and traffic. This is the reason why (particularly lower income) people leave California and move to Texas. This is also the reason why certain businesses do the same.

You raise the issue of total tax burden.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/336.html

In California, it’s 10.6% of income, compared to a national average of 9.8%, compared to 7.9% in Texas. So, it’s 2.7% more total taxes in California than in Texas, but income is 15% higher. So it’s not after tax income which makes Texas an attractive destination and it’s not less “regulation.” What makes Texas so attractive is very cheap housing and much lower cost of living.

Which brings us to education:

You started this by making the following statement:

Texas has a vastly better high school graduation rate among minorities compared to California where the minority dropout rate is 50%. As a matter of fact, Texas has a better minority graduation rate than Wisconsin, a highly unionized state.

I said I’d look that up and reply. I did (#18). You were incorrect on this.

You later brought up the topic of standardized test scores among 8th graders. I replied that numbers like this are only meaningful with a lot of other information, which is lacking. For example, what percentage of students come from “undocumented” families. But it’s entirely plausible that your general point was correct: that Texas may obtain better results, despite spending less money. Why should this be: Well, California has the second worst student:treacher ratio in the country. Texas, I think is above average.

Why does California have such a bad student:teacher ratio, despite spending more money? Because teacher pay in California is higher (and both states have teachers’ unions); administrator pay is higher; land costs more; construction costs are higher. Utilities are higher. Actually, California should be spending much more on education than it does. We should be hiring a lot more teachers, for starters, but we don’t have the money, because the money which goes to support education comes predominately from property taxes, and our property tax base was basically gutted by Proposition 13.

You asked about my own situation, in my little mud and chicken wire house, with a current zillow.com valuation of $745,000 (I just looked it up). Well, I purchased this house for $153,500 in 1979. Taxes were 1% of purchase price per year. Base valuation can only go up a max of 2% per year. So our yearly tax bill is, in 2011, on the order of $2,200, which, you certainly must agree, is entirely reasonable for a house with its current valuation. My neighbors (and now, good friends) across the street bought their house in 2009 for $835,000. So their taxes are $8,350 per year. Commercial real estate works the same way. So buildings purchased in the late 1970s, housing very successful businesses, which have grown considerably over the decades, are paying very low tax rates, even by Texas standards, while newcomers sort of get screwed, relatively speaking.

Anyway, Proposition 13 is one of those ideas which sounded perfectly good and reasonable, but which has proved to have unintended consequences, which are bad for both business creation and public school financing. But Prop 13 has saved me, personally, a ton of money over the years. At the expense, mainly, of our public schools.

With regard to the whole Commie China thing, I stand by my assertion that it’s an authoritarian capitalist economy.

Here’s one explanation:

http://www.teachabroadchina.com/china-not-communist-country-ccp/

Here’s another:

http://www.slate.com/id/2261772/

2/3 of the Chinese economy is, today, private. The other 1/3 are mainly the large infrastructure industries. I read where the most communist thing remaining in China is the land, with all the land in the country owned by the government. But here’s the thing. People build houses on the land and they own the houses. Private businesses own their own buildings. In principle, the government can kick the people off the government’s land, but they can do that in the USA, also, as affirmed by the Kelo Decision.

Capitalist/Communist are economic terms. Democratic/Authoritarian are government terms. By objective analysis, China has a mostly capitalist economy, governed by an authoritarian regime.

– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach CA

Hi Hard Right (#29):

When you talk about the “Communist (big C) Party,” that is simply a label left over from the days of Chairman Mao. At one time, China was a communist (little c) country. It’s like the difference between Democrat (me) and democrat (me AND you). There is no question that the Communist Party continues to rule China with an iron fist. It is not a democracy.

When you come to economics, however, that’s something different. When the large majority of a nation’s total economy comes from capitalistic enterprises and when the remaining, state-owned sector of the economy is largely infrastructure (e.g. as in the case of a municipal power company and a municipal trash collection and disposal company in a capitalist American city), then it is more accurate to label the economy as capitalist than it is to label it as communist.

So I continue to stand by my original assertion. China is a (largely) capitalist nation, under authoritarian (Communist — big C) rule.

– Larry Weisenthal/Huntington Beach, CA

Hard Right,
openid, want to send you to CHINA,
maybe he has a travel arrangement for free.
bye

When the Chinese gov’t can come to your home and inspect your child for various talents, then take that child away from you, and there is no recourse, that is communism.
If your child is athletic and tries to make the Olympic team in gymnastics but tears an Achilles tendon he is abandoned by the state.
If your child is musically inclined but cannot deal with competitiveness he is abandoned, too.
Communism means the group comes first, and the group’s needs are decided upon by an inner circle of elites.
China is a communist country.
And Taiwan is in grave danger from China because Obama is a ditherer who has left Taiwan defenseless.

@ Larry
All you say may be true Larry, however businesses are fleeing California. From the Orange County Register, April 2011: http://www.ocregister.com/articles/vranich-296360-jobs-moves.html

So far this year, 69 companies have moved all or part of their California work and jobs to other states or countries, reports Irvine relocation consultant Joe Vranich.
It’s the fastest rate of departures since Vranich started tracking the exodus in 2009, he says. There have been an average of 4.7 moves per week from Jan. 1 through April 12, compared to 3.9 moves in all of 2010.

Eleven Orange County companies are on this latest list:
•Acacia Research Corp in Irvine moved its core business to Frisco, Tex.
•AccentCare in Irvine moved its headquarters to Dallas
•Alstyle Apparel Inc. in Anaheim closed its local manufacturing plants and moved the work to Agua Prieta, Mexico
•Biocentric Energy Holdings Inc. in Santa Ana moved its corporate facility and testing center to Salt Lake City
•The new owner of Claim Jumper and Bubba Gump Shrimp Co. restaurants moved the headquarters for both chains to Houston
•Dharma Construction Services in Costa Mesa is moving its headquarters to Louisville, Ky.
•Hyundai Capital America in Irvine is tranferring 71 jobs to Georgia and Texas
•Legacy Electronics is moving from San Clemente to Sioux Falls, S.D.
•Rockwell Collins in Irvine is transferring its electromechanical systems work to Mexico and Florida
•Tickets.com in Costa Mesa closed its Concord office and is moving the call center and customer service work to Texas
•Wells Fargo Bank is moving 59 jobs from Orange County to India.

Why do these and the other companies move out of California? Vranich has updated his top 10 reasons that California companies call the moving van.
Number 10 is new: Energy costs soaring because of new laws and regulations. Commercial electrical rates are already 50% higher than the rest of the country, Vranich says, and Gov. Jerry Brown just signed a new law increasing the amount of power utilities must buy from renewable sources plus regulations for the California Global Warming Solutions Act will start soon.
The other reasons, Vranich says, are:
9. High and unfair tax treatment
8. Regulatory burden
7. Unfriendly legal environment for business
6. Most expensive place to do business
5. Provable savings elsewhere
4. Public policies and taxes create unfriendly business climate
3. Uncontrollable public spending
2. More adversarial toward business than any other state
1. Poor rankings for California on lists ranging from taxes to crime rates to school dropout rates.

@retire05:

Up until now, we were having a civil and mutually respectful discussion. As of #34, this is no longer the case.

– Larry W/HB

@ilovebeeswarzone:

LOL. Bees, he’ll need to bring some friends if he wants to send me to China.

Hi Aqua (#38): Thanks for the comments. I’ll try and address over the weekend. – Larry W/HB

There are a couple of very illustrative charts in this story.

“So what you need to know is that the Texas miracle is a myth, and more broadly that Texan experience offers no useful lessons on how to restore national full employment.”

Paul Krugman, NYTimes.

Paul likes to play with statistics.
Here’s a perfect example:
Krugman:

In June 2011, the Texas unemployment rate was 8.2 percent. That was less than unemployment in collapsed-bubble states like California and Florida, but it was slightly higher than the unemployment rate in New York, and significantly higher than the rate in Massachusetts.

Here’s a handy chart pointing out this FACT.

But Paul conveniently ignores how many people simply GIVE UP looking for work.
See, people do not fall out of the “unemployed” column only when they get a job, but also when they stop looking for one.

2.8 million Americans have given up and completely stopped looking for work since Obama took office.

But what happened in Texas?

Texas’s labor force has grown by 350,000 since the recession ended in June 2009.
There’s another very interesting-looking chart showing how GREAT Texas looks when you compare folks in the workplace with Krugman’s choices.

OOPS!

openid.aol.com/runnswim,
on your 40, don’t bet on keeping it civil too long,
if you keep pushing as you do,
you cannot shove it in their throat, like a medecine.
because you are convinced it’s right
bye