Obama: The rights of Muslim suicide bombers come before the rights of US citizens [Reader Post]


New TSA Screening Procedures

The stories are now legion:

A cancer survivor forced to remove her prosthetic breast.

A man with a urostomy bad left covered in urine.

A 12 year old girl forced to submit to being naked in a scanner.

A rough search into her crotch leaves a woman in tears.

Pants pulled down because of artificial knees, nipple rings removed, TSA agents screaming “I have power!”

I have had enough. Barack Obama should be impeached and removed from office.

He appointed the most inept and ignorant Attorney General in the history of this country. Both Holder and Obama have nothing but contempt for the Constitution.

Barack Obama appointed the single most stupid person in the United States to be head of Homeland Security. Obama is determined to punish the citizens of the United States in order to preserve the rights of Muslim suicide bombers. He is determined to humiliate all of us in order to protect them.

If a vehicle is involved in the commission of a crime, police don’t stop ALL vehicles and search them.

If a suspect in a crime is described as a white male aged 25-30, police do not stop elderly black women and detain them.

It’s called profiling.

Banks profile. Insurance companies profile. It’s been a part of life for a long time. It would be single most effective method at discovering would-be suicide bombers. And it is the one thing this damned idiotic administration won’t do. It has served El Al, the Israeli airline, extremely well. In an interview Isaac Yeffet, the former head of security for El Al had this to say:

“Stop relying only on technology,” Yeffet told CNN. “Technology can help the qualified, well-trained human being but cannot replace him.”

About Richard Reid he said

In 2002, we had Richard Reid, the shoe bomber. This man gave the security people all the suspicious signs that any passenger could show. The man got a British passport in Belgium, not in England. Number Two: he flew to Paris, he bought a one-way ticket from Paris to Florida. He paid cash. He came to the airport with no luggage. What else do I need to know that this passenger is suspicious?

About Umar Abdulmutallab:

Now we face the story with [Umar Farouk] AbdulMutallab. We had all the information that we could dream the security people could get. He was on the list of people connected to al Qaeda. I don’t need more to understand that when he comes, I am not looking for more evidence. He is suspicious; I have to take care of him.

Abdulmutallab was banned from entering Britain but not from entering the US, despite a warning from his father.

The Director General of Nigerian Civil Aviation Authority Dr Harold Demuren said that Abdulmutallab purchased his ticket without a telephone number or a fixed contact address. Abdulmutallab’s trip was to last from December 25, 2008 to January 9, 2009 and he had no checked lugagge- only a small carry-on bag.

It doesn’t take a genius to see the red flags here. The problem is that we have no geniuses at TSA, or anywhere else in this administration.

Barack Obama is not about to discriminate against Islamic suicide bombers.

The administration’s reliance on technology is not comforting either.

“The scanner caught a subject’s cell phone and Swiss Army knife — and the microphone he was wearing — but missed all the components to make a bomb that he hid on his body… Full-body scanners: they’re not just a dumb idea, they don’t actually work.”


You know those airport scanners that render you essentially naked? The ones that don’t catch bomb-making materials? The ones that are supposed to be staffed by infallible and absolutely trustworthy airport workers who’ll never, ever abuse your privacy with them? Turns out they’re vulnerable to a sophisticated, impossible-to-predict technical attack: a guard was caught taking pictures of the screen while a female colleague was passing through the scanner. Who’d have guessed that was possible?

The ability of these new scanners to even detect explosives of choice is questionable:

Since the attack was foiled, body-scanners, using “millimetre-wave” technology and revealing a naked image of a passenger, have been touted as a solution to the problem of detecting explosive devices that are not picked up by traditional metal detectors – such as those containing liquids, chemicals or plastic explosive.

But Ben Wallace, the Conservative MP, who was formerly involved in a project by a leading British defence research firm to develop the scanners for airport use, said trials had shown that such low-density materials went undetected.

It has been reported that a new direction for suicide bombers includes the insertion of explosive breast or buttock implants.

Al Qaida already has employed the tactic of inserting explosives into the rectum. These are completely obscure to scanners. In Obamaworld this will mean everyone getting an anal and vaginal search because Obama does not want to irritate Muslim suicide bombers.

Then there’s simple abuse.

We were promised that images of you naked would not be stored. That was a lie.

We are assured that security employees would not abuse these images:

A Scotland Yard spokesman said: “Police received an allegation regarding an incident that happened at Heathrow Terminal 5 on March 10. A first-instance harassment warning has been issued to a 25-year-old male.”

The BAA employee took a photo of his co-worker, Jo Margetson, when she inadvertently went through a scanner.

“I can’t bear to think about the body scanner thing,” she told the Sun. “I’m totally traumatised. I’ve spoken to the police about it. I’m in too much of a state to go to work.”

TSA agents are carefully screened and selected, right?

As AirSafe News reports, “The current system of background checks may have allowed those convicted of rape and other sexually based offenses to join TSA.”

Indeed, back in March it emerged that TSA worker Sean Shanahan, who was employed at Boston Logan International Airport to pat down passengers, had been charged with multiple child sex crimes targeting an underage girl.

Given the fact that the TSA’s new policy allows workers to fondle breasts and genitals, expect a flood of sex perverts and rapists to eagerly sign up.

As I listen to reports of TSA agents demeaning and screaming at travelers, I think we are witnessing the unfolding of a new Stanford Prison Experiment. The TSA is now a police state and all Americans forfeit their Constitutional rights. And that’s no exaggeration. Two quotes courtesy of Gates of Vienna:

We ask for cooperation, patience and a commitment to vigilance in the face of a determined enemy.

— Janet Napolitano, Secretary of Homeland Security

Nobody likes having their Fourth Amendment [rights] violated going through a security line, but the truth of the matter is, we’re gonna have to do it.

— Mo McGowan, former Director of TSA Security Operations

Napolitano has made it clear- we Americans are the “determined enemy.”

And as for violating your Fourth Amendment rights? No, it doesn’t have to be done. Profiling is the answer. No one bats an eye when banks, insurance companies do it. No one bats an eye when police do it for all normal operations.

It is a problem only when it involves Muslims. The rights of Muslim suicide bombers are given far more respect than the rights of innocent American citizens. Profiling doesn’t start with Islamists but it will end with Islamists. There is no other religion which promises rewards for blowing up yourself and as many innocents as possible.

But not all Americans are subject to this abuse:

WASHINGTON — Representative John A. Boehner, the soon-to-be Republican speaker, pledged recently that he would fly commercial airlines back home to Ohio, passing up the military plane used by the current speaker, Nancy Pelosi, a Democrat. But that does not mean he will endure the hassles of ordinary passengers, including pat downs and other new security screenings.

And it nearly makes me vomit to hear our moron President say this:

“One of the most frustrating aspects of this fight against terrorism is that it has created a whole security apparatus around us that causes a huge inconvenience for all of us,” Obama said.

All of us? All of US?

Who the hell is he jerking around here? When is the last time Michelle Obama had an agent grab her crotch? When was the last time one of the Obama girls was stuck in a scanner? Obama could show “all of us” how he empathizes by putting Sasha or Malia through a scanner every time the fly. Let’s see Obama get his privates searched in public.

Let’s see more of this “us” bullsh*t.

The current Obama policy is galactically stupid.

It’s time for this idiocy to end. Barack Obama as President is the biggest blunder in the history of this country. It’s time to end the Barack Obama Experiment.

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@ B-rob, you’re right in that they don’t just “pick you out” like we do, and grope your balls…. they ask a series of questions, watch/analyze the responses & reactions, and THEN decide to delve further, or not….. now, WHAT pray tell, do you think those guys who FLUNK this “psyche” test fit??? Um, could it be a PROFILE of what a nutcase does/says/thinks/asks when subjected to these questions/stimuli ????? “Profiling” comes in many different packages….. don’t it. But you NEED it as the “outline” of who, and when to choose your “suspects”…. Obama is flat out refusing to do this, choosing to be an “equal opportunity offender”… rather than a FOCUSED protector… TSA, and their ultimate leader, are IDIOTS! Sorry, facts speak for themselves….. like it, or NOT.

@ B-rob.. I think you just cannot stand the thought of the word “profile” being used…… you get “profiled” every day!!! Know it or not…. What, for instance, do you think a FICO (credit) score is used for?? Why does your Auto Insurer use it?? (I think this practice is WRONG by the way!) or perhaps, your prospective new Boss??? (also wrong, unless you are a bank)…. or the COPS…. hell walk into a “public service ” job interview, with one other person. YOU are clean cut.. the other is long haired, and tattoo covered. YOU could be a creep, the other a got to church every Sunday kid, but YOU will get the better look see….. 3 guesses why… he “looks” like he “fits a certain mental profile”…. happens to all of us, all walks of life.. every day. So WHY NOT HERE????? You keep evading this question!!!

Aqua —

I have never worked for an airline, but I have represented a few over the years. This has nothing to do with lawyers, but everything to do with common sense. Likewise, applying the El Al regime to the US simply would not work for all the reasons I mentioned before.

There is this concept in economics called “economies of scale”, and a related management concept called “bets practices.” Mush them together and you come up with the novel concept that it is cheaper and better to have a small number of screening points doing things in the most efficient manner, than have each airline run their own show however they wish to do that. Indeed, MOST airports are designed with a central screening point (no more than six or so in an entire large airport like San Francisco, fewer than that at LaGuardia); they do not have each airline do their own screening because each of the 35 airlines flying out of Houston would have to have their own check point, their own staffers, regardless of how many flights (like 300 per day for Continental) or how few (TACA, Air New Zealand . . . probably a couple flights per week) run out of the airport. This would be costly and would make no sense at all, having different rules for flying on different airlines.

Old Trooper —

The day that everyone is treated the same regardless of their race or ethnicity is the day that “hyphenation” ends. It will never end in the US any more than it will end in Britain or China or Chile or Russia because people are just LIKE THAT. This country was built with “hyphenation” written into its many laws, with culture following that. “Hyphenation” is emphasized whenever people adorn their truck with the flag of Southern traitors. We divide ourselves by race and color, religion, etc. It is what it is. Case in point: you think based on his comments before about TSA agents, that Skookum doesn’t think in terms of race and “hyphenation”? Pu-lease . . . .

But then you said this, which totally lost me:

There are some very bad Hombres out there from every Hyphenated group.

This is just flat out WRONG! It is just the “Hyphenated groups”, as you put it, that have “bad hombres”? That is what you have to get out of your head, that you think only people in what you call “Hyphenated groups” (whatever you mean by that . . . it’s your term . . .) are the ones we need to check out. I don’t think I need to keep listing all the “whacked out White people” who you REALLY don’t want flying on your airplane, do I?

Yeah, I know, I know: we do not profile by race at airports. But I will say it again, for about the ninth time, people posting ON THIS SITE (and you, implicitly, by emphasizing the “bad hombres” in the “Hyphenated groups”) have called for just that. They don’t want to be personally “inconvenienced”; they don’t want THEIR rights violated, so they want all the attention to be payed just to (and, again, I quote) “swarthy” people. I guess they think it is OK for “them” have their rights violated, to be hassled and inconvenienced, while “other” people stroll on by — with dangerous people in that mix. That is why the racial and ethnic profiling proposal is not only lazy and racist, it is flat out dumb.

Since Islamists can look like Larry Bird as well as look like Hedo Turkoglu, you cannot let people skip happily by just because they are white. Since terrorists can look like Tim McVeigh (before 9/11 the most successful terrorist this side of the Ku Klux Klan), we need to screen people who look like McVeigh, too.

Finally, you mentioning McVeigh and the beltway sniper is also interesting. I specifically recall after OKC people calling for the US to “wage war against the Muslims” for blowing up the Murrah building; they assumed that, because of m.o., it was Muslims. Likewise, the Beltway Snipers used a classic “angry White male” m.o. and that is what the “profiles” said we should be looking for! Because the perps did not “fit the profile”, people were looking in the wrong direction. Which is my point!

Behavioral profiling is done by the Israelis, not racial profiling.

Buy a one-way ticket….get profiled.
Pay for it with cash….get profiled.
Take a long flight to a faraway place with NO checked luggage….get profiled.
Act really nervous in line….get profiled.
Refuse to give a home phone number….get profiled.
Refuse to give a home address….get profiled.

Gee…..I don’t see a ”race” involved in those decision points, do you?
And anyway, what ”race” are Muslims?
Islam is NOT a race.
You can be a black African and be a Muslim.
You can be an black American and be a Muslim.
You can be of European origin and be a Muslim.
You can be Thai, Malay, Philippino, Mexican, Indonesian and be a Muslim.
You can be Pakistani, Iranian, Iraqi, Turkish, Arab, Afghani and be a Muslim.

So, you could be white, brown, black or yellow and be a Muslim.

Only behavioral profiling would work….unless we do what the TSA is doing and search everyone…..without exception.

Hankster —

You and all the people who keep harping on El Al’s “superior” screening process simply refuse to address that fact that it is ENTIRELY IMPRACTICAL to install such a program in the US. We have too many flights flying too many places moving too many people to apply what works for a 40 plane airline to Continental/United, which will have more than 600 planes once the merger is done.

When is the last time you got to the airport a full hour before the flight? Now try getting there three hours before. How much productivity would be lost? What do you do with the people who are refused travel based on their answers? You are from Miami, stuck in San Francisco and they refuse to let you fly . . . how does that work out?

And why are we having all this angst and screaming that we should install a minor airlines’ impractical security procedures to the entire US air system? Because a minority of people don’t want to go through the screeners and don’t want to be “groped” either . . . they want to set their own security rules? Since when do the whiners set the safety rules?

I mean seriously . . . all this whining about a system that 81% of American travel professionals think makes sense?! Really?!

Nan G —

Let me get this straight: you would rather have government employees asking each and every one of the 267 passengers on an Airbus a320 a set of questions, requiring them to get to the airport three hours early, and have the government employees make “You can’t fly today” questions based on their answers and the government employee’s subjective “reading” of those answers, rather than spending 10 seconds in a screening machine, or four minutes being “groped”? Is that what you are saying?

Nan, El Al runs 30 flights a day . . . that is all. In 2008, O’Hare, one airport (and NOT the busiest in the US) has 2400 flight operations per day. Let’s assume half were take offs. Please give me some idea where the money would come from to hire the government employees JUST IN CHICAGO required to do person-by-person questioning of all the passengers on 1200 flights!

@ B-Rob

This would be costly and would make no sense at all, having different rules for flying on different airlines.

Nope, same rules, same security agency, even if it’s the TSA. I’ve flown out of IAH several times. The don’t have a central screening area like Atlanta. They segreate their screening by terminal. DFW even more so.

BTW, I’m pretty familiar with industry best practices. I’m an engineer, I work with them every day. And even though I don’t work with economics as they may relate to economies of scale, I do it in a smaller version of maximizing or even in some cases minimizing. As a matter of fact, if I had four or five hours and the numbers, I could put together a maximization problem in the form of a simplex tableau based on air carriers, flights, average number of passengers per flight, and so on. Include any constraints and come up with an optimum security segregation plan. It’s not that difficult. And if little ole me can do it, imagine the power of putting a group of engineers on the problem.


You state that “We have these procedures for a reason”. I would like to think the reason is to prevent terrorism but what is in place now and what has been proposed so far is useless. And has been proven to be useless.

As for profiling – Why is it perfectly acceptable to profile Muslim women and exempt them from pat-downs yet politically incorrect to profile other Muslims and submit them to deeper scrutiny!?!

Hypocrisy at its finest!

We must submit to disrespectful interogations and time consuming procedures that accomplish nothing while terrorist continue to plot against us – and will succeed. Other’s make silly statements that we should take the train. Terrorists have won and they know it!

Brob #56 all of those questions are already asked and answered when the person is buyingtheir ticket and checking in.
Nothing extra would be needed except to pay attention for anyone who looks excessively nervous even if he/she passes as OK on all of the info.
Now, the fact is, my husband was in a plane crash before we met.
To this day he hates getting on a plane.
He might be acting nervous enough to be pulled aside for that.
But it would be a lot less obtrusive than groping or seeing through the clothing of every child and granny going home for the holidays.


Has anyone here touched on the lack of DUE PROCESS involved in an automatic up to $11,000 penalty + jail for refusing to be searched once at the screener station?

That is BLUSTER and will ”go away” after the Holidays….I’ll bet.
It is just like Obama’s bluster demanding a personal meeting with Humana’s leaders regarding their ad against ObamaCare.
After Human ignored the ILLEGAL demand Obama just pretended it never happened.

@b-Rob…. you Liberal types make me laugh!! So willing to “submit” without question!!
Now, as to your “blowing off” the EL AL security because “it’s OH so HARD!!!!” (think Bawney Fwank voice here) to do on a larger scale….. G Dammit man!! This is the USA!! They said we couldn’t go to the moon, WE DID! Hoover dam couldn’t be built, WE DID! The UP’s X4000 series of Steam Loco’s were just too big to work , WE MADE EM, and they DID! The Empire State Building, Golden Gate Bridge… Hell the relief of the Battle of Bastonge!!! Every time someone USED to say “we couldn’t do it”.. WE DID IT!!! THAT is the America I remember, before you Pussy Liberals took it, and “feminized” it!!!

We can do, any damn thing we put our minds to!! We want PROPER security, we can do so!! you whine about how many people it will take??? Um aren’t we a tad SHORT of JOBS right about now??? DUH!?!?! And, you can cut back some on “how many flights” we have.. to many fly too empty anyway…. fill em, and check em…. and, the only thing I see is, almost ALL TSA Employees would NOT Qualify for these NEW security Jobs… you need to be REAL SHARP and SMART to do it the EL AL way…. so TAS’rs don’t Qualify, and for GODS SAKE keep the Unions
OUT of this!!!! OBAMA, time to QUIT paying for your election votes! Asshole……
Sorry of the language offends anyone, just tired of Liberal stupidity killing the Country I care about!

My 14 year old girl will be flying this afternoon. I talked with her two days ago about whether she will do the scanner or the pat down. We have these procedures for a reason. If you don�t want to be involved, I suggest Amtrak.

Is she down with a cavity search?

Hankster —

I did not say it was “hard” to establish El Al’s system. I said it would be expensive, disruptive and stupid. It is much cheaper and quicker to use the scanners than to try to recreate their labor intensive and time consuming system given our resources.

Seriously . . . have you thought about the costs we would incur establishing such a system? It makes no sense to use a more disruptive, costlier SUBJECTIVE system when you can put in a less disruptive, less expensive OBJECTIVE system.

Nan G —

Reread what I said and explain to me how Jim Smith, who is prohibited from flying home from San Francisco to Miami because some TSA agent did not like his answers, gets home. Why would you want a subjective system when you could have an objective system.

Cons, I have to run. But I am beginning to sense that I get what’s going on here: you are simply being oppositional. You don’t have a better system proposal, you propose alternative systems that would be more expensive, more time consuming, and more subjective. This makes no sense at all. Which is why . . . you’re just opposing it for the sake of opposing it, aren’t you?

What we need is biometric screening for those who desire it to clear us sooner.

What we need is to know who is boarding the plane ahead of time.

What we need is someone to observe and behaviorally profile.

We doctors take note of the effectiveness of methods and procedures. If something is unnecessary we stop doing it.

Not every patient gets radiation because someone got cancer.

Not every patient has abdominal surgery because a few got appendicitis.

Women don’t get prostate exams to avoid discrimination.

What we’re doing is stupid. We’re looking for bad things instead of bad people.

Again I ask you- where do you draw the line? Will you willingly submit to a rectal search each time you fly if an Islamist attempts such a thing? (and it has already happened)

@ drjohn

I think the cavity search comment was uncalled for Dr. John, especially in the context of someone’s 14 yo daughter.

@ Aqua.. why so??? Shoe bomber.. “we take off search shoes”… Underwear bomber.. we grope your goods and “naked scan” you… so, soon as one of Osama’s people get caught with some C4 in a tube, baggie whatever shoved up their …. WHERE do you think TSA will search NEXT????
Just Linear thought, and connect the dots…. you CAN do that, can’t you???? 🙄

And, what does 14 yr old have to do with it?? they yanked the shirt off a 12 yr old… granted a boy, but age don’t mean squat, and FEMALE don’t matter either, if you read the news! So WHAT was your point? IT’S COMING!!! You haven’t figured out yet, these Socialist/Libs have no boundaries???

Brob, do ever read your collective answers with an eye for your massive cognitive dissonance?

In one post you write, people have many ways they can travel: planes, trains, buses, autos, ships, blimps.

Then in one only minutes later you plead, how will poor Jim Smith get home?

Well, which is it, brob?

One time, because we could, and hubby hates planes we took a train to the place we were going instead of flying.
Another time we took a train because it was such a pleasant experience the first time.


I’m sure a “butt-sniffer” machine isn’t far off into the future. But we can bust on each other without bringing kids into the fray.

Nan G —

Nice try changing the subject. But as I said before, the El Al procedures may work fine in Israel, but for all the reasons I listed, would not work here — not the least of which would be the cost of replicating that system. You never do address the practicality problem — I think you don’t because you kn

And Nan, if you don’t know the difference between (a) taking a train to Miami from San Francisco because you don’t want to be screened, and (b) being stuck in San Francisco because some schmo at TSA didn’t like the answers to your questions, I am not sure I can help. Oh, hell, I’ll take a shot:

In situation (a), you are choosing of your own free will to endure the time and cost of a cross-continental train, setting your schedule to work around that added time and setting your budget to deal with the cost difference, if any. In situation (b), someone ELSE tells you you cannot fly, even though you flew out on your business trip and did not buy a ticket for the train because you had no notice you would need one.

Maybe the answer in your world, Nan, is to have everyone buy a plane ticket AND train ticket, just in case the TSA doesn’t like the answers you give and refuse to permit you to fly.

By the way, Nan, how long would your US flight ban last? See, if El Al refuses to let you fly on their plane, you can always fly another airline. But if you are banned by TSA, I guess you simply don’t fly for, what, a year? Forever?

And why would you rather have such a disruptive, expensive and subjective system? Because Obama adopted a Bush administration proposal to make flying safer by screening every person who wants to fly. That is rich, Nan. It makes no sense at all, but it is rich!

TSA Chief John Pistole told Candy Crowley that Israel’s security methods will never be adopted in America because the US doesn’t do “profiling.”
So instead, we have to treat everyone like they’re the enemy, to not offend a certain group. Forget about the successful record of Israeli security in airlines, we must not offend.
Ah, political correctness strikes again.

Our only thwarted attacks have been because of LUCK.

On that point Bobby Jindal said: “Luck is not a strategy. We need to be rooting out these networks, we need to be killing these terrorists. The bottom line is yes we need to secure our country, but simply playing defense isn’t enough.”

Way back in ~60 a man named Paul wrote that we should aim our blows so as to hit something as opposed to the air. (His letter is now called 1st Corinthians and this part is at chapter 9, verse 26.)
He was right.
The Obama Administration and TSA are wasting our money and freedom and time all to no avail.

“Nice try changing the subject. But as I said before, the El Al procedures may work fine in Israel, but for all the reasons I listed, would not work here — not the least of which would be the cost of replicating that system. You never do address the practicality problem — I think you don’t because you kn”

>>>B-Rob.. post 60 touches on that. YOU sir, are the one in denial. Typical Lib…. you SAY it’s so, so it must be. Me? I say B.S.!!! They don’t WANT to “be fair” in this process!!! So if you want to believe your own twisted perspectives, knock your self out. WE know better…..

You also said…”By the way, Nan, how long would your US flight ban last? See, if El Al refuses to let you fly on their plane, you can always fly another airline. But if you are banned by TSA, I guess you simply don’t fly for, what, a year? Forever? ”

>>>DUH!! If you are deemed to “be a threat”.. and it’s Proven so, HELL YES!!! Are you really that oblivious?? LOL!! JEEEZZUS! Unbelievable…..

, but isn’t THAT the point?? Our KIDS are being “affected” by all this, RIGHT NOW???? So why NOT “bring them into this”??? This is REAL LIFE!! NOW! TODAY! This isn’t the Oprah show!

America because the US doesn’t do “profiling.”

Either Pistole is a liar or he is stupid. America does do profiling, and all the time. We just don’t do it when it matters the most and where it would be most useful.

@ drjohn

I think the cavity search comment was uncalled for Dr. John, especially in the context of someone’s 14 yo daughter.

Would you tolerate a cavity search of your kids or your spouse?

This is NOT an intangible. A 6 year old has had his shirt taken off already. They ARE groping your privates now. An Islamic suicide bomber has used a bomb in his rectum already.

This is NOT a ridiculous question. You may well be faced with it.

You may not like the question but who would have imagined you’d be having to get used to Napolitano’s strangers doing things to you someone is normally arrested for?

drjohn; hi, doing this is playing in the hands of the ennemies, they must be so happy to see AMERICA DO what they wanted to do, they like who ever does the search,
on AMERICANS, of course they don’t want to profil or have the TSA USE PROFILING,

I would like to point out one little bit of irony: People like B-Rob have been profiling us from the get go with attempted insults added into replies to us, especialy with the like of, “cons” attempting to label us as some sort of criminal for violating some sort of concieved “law” in the person’s mind. Just putting that wee bit out there.

Mister . Irons; yes, absolutly true,
evil intent this B-Rob

B-Rob, I read over again on this post, and it tell me that you are the profiller while accusing the CONSEVATIVES OF IT, FURTHER MORE THIS CIVILIENS SEARCH IS ORDER BY THE GOVERNMENT ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP, AND AGREED BY THE MAJORITY DEMOCRATS,


@drjohn, you continually bring up body cavity searches. This is simply hyperbole, and has not one factual event to support such accusations and innuendos. And if there were, there would be a seriously good lawsuit potential.

TSA’s chief, as I pointed out to you yesterday on my own post INRE the legalities of airport screening, has said they do not allow body cavity searches, and there are no plans to do so in the future. And, in fact, for security screening purposes, I doubt a body cavity search would pass the 4th Amendment Katz/expectations test for a non law enforcement search.

While we would always need to keep an eye out for TSA screeners who operate outside the guidelines and abuse their power, and certainly any attempt to implement body cavity searches as a part of the TSA guidelines, it would be good to stick to the facts about screening, and not be making crap up. This stuff does not help rational discussions.

One year ago you would have said the same thing to me INRE gonad groping.

And yet, here it is.

What do you imagine is going to happen when a rectal bomb blows?

@drjohn: This is NOT an intangible. A 6 year old has had his shirt taken off already. They ARE groping your privates now. An Islamic suicide bomber has used a bomb in his rectum already.

And speaking of facts, the SLC incident INRE the shirt is another distortion of the truth. TSA did not remove the boy’s shirt, nor asked him to. It was removed by his father, who handed TSA the shirt to inspect.

A video is being widely circulated showing a shirtless boy receiving secondary screening from a Transportation Security Officer (TSO). A passenger filmed the screening with their cell phone and posted the video on the web. Many are coming to their own conclusions about what’s happening in the video which is now perched at the top of the Drudge report and being linked to in many other blogs and tweets. We looked into this to find out what happened.

On November 19, a family was traveling through a TSA checkpoint at the Salt Lake City International Airport (SLC). Their son alarmed the walk through metal detector and needed to undergo secondary screening. The boy’s father removed his son’s shirt in an effort to expedite the screening. After our TSO completed the screening, he helped the boy put his shirt back on. That’s it. No complaints were filed and the father was standing by his son for the entire procedure.

It should be mentioned that you will not be asked to and you should not remove clothing (other than shoes, coats and jackets) at a TSA checkpoint. If you’re asked to remove your clothing, you should ask for a supervisor or manager.

This is also confirmed by another person who was in line at SLC security check point. The cell phone video that has gone viral, with the hyperbole BS, started after the father removed the shirt. The rest is just people making sheeeeet up to fan the flames.

@drjohn, again, you are projecting and not sticking to facts. I’ve seen airport screening done in front of my eyes for years now, both with wanding and pat downs. I don’t seen a discernable difference from last years’ pat downs to this. In the past month, I’ve flown eight times, and been thru six security lines.

The only thing different is the type of detectors/scanners being used. Because of the potential radiation exposure with the backscatter x-ray scanners (not an issue if the airport has the millimeter wave scanners), TSA says if you refuse the scanner, you must accept the pat down.

@DrJohn, as I’ve repeatedly said, I’m not a happy camper about this either. Been thru the new scanners, but as I said… not flying enough to worry about uncalibrated machines and over exposure.

However it would still be nice if you didn’t project and inflate, and simply stuck to what’s actually going on.

@DrJohn: Now they confiscate cameras so that we can’t prove abuses.

WTF? You aren’t supposed to carry a camera or a phone thru the detectors anyway… and haven’t for years. “Confiscate”? No, they are supposed to be in the bin, going thru the x-ray machine. Nor do they keep your phone, erase videos, etc. Really drj… taking this to new heights, guy.

“So tell me what happens when the rectal bomb goes off.”

The fit hits the shan. 😡


We get to see the inside of where democrats come from.

@DrJohn: So tell me what happens when the rectal bomb goes off.


@DrJohn: Tell me where you draw the line.

To the first, I don’t project. In fact, I’m not even sure that you could confirm after the fact, whether the bomb was actually in a body cavity, or simply slipped thru shoddy security screening.

To the first and second combined, I draw the line at what is within the federal agency’s legal authority for security screening. And as I said, from what I saw with the brief look at SCOTUS rulings on cavity checks, that does not extend to non custodial security screenings. l

Last year if you had told me about “groping our gonads”… well, yours anyway 😉 … I would have told you that they already have patted down personal areas in the past because I’ve seen it. And unless you have one perverted screener who has the balls to grope in sexual manner before the public and his supervisors (who should then be prosecuted), it has never been “groping”. That is, again, your elevation of the pat down to hysterical heights in order to fan the flames.

Maggie; yes, you are right in ther 22 23, on the nose, those are coming here in numbers now,
It’s good to have some support to kick their behinds, [ I am trying to click the other word on my new computer] I’ll have to practice some more,

@DrJohn, what are they saying? A 21 second clip with some much background noise? “Threats”? “Confiscation”? I heard no such thing, and that’s a desperate leap.

What the screener said to the girl was “he’s not allowed…”, and I saw the girl look at the camera and mouth “turn it off”.

I heard no threats, have no idea who the “sir sir” was directed to since that conversation sounded completely different and seemed to be urging on the process somewhere. It could also be he was standing in an area that they needed clear for those behind him.

So what’s the “threats” and “confiscation” bit? She said “he’s not allowed…” and didn’t even finish the sentence before the girl said “turn it off”.

Making shit up again? Some more homework, please. And staying somewhere within the real of reality would be oh so helpful.

BTW, not much impressed with your source site. Even after the SLC/shirt incident, they continued to hyperventilate about conspiracies and lies… Might as well head to Alex Jones for your next source material, guy.

@ Mata…. I can’t attest to the Camera grabbing, BUT, the “pat downs” are NOTHING like “last years” or even a few months back!!! Sorry, but THAT one I’ll stick by, and there are plenty of Videos and Photo’s to back that one up… sorry, nut grabbing, boob fondling (yes, I’ve seen evidence of both, I’ll hunt down the links if you like, but I know you are resourceful enough to do it yourself) have gotten ridiculous and the TSA and Obummer over the top, with their insistence EVERYONE is suspect! Thought that “innocent till proven guilty” USED to be our motto.. and searches were due to suspicion of Criminal activity, not BECAUSE WE CAN……. something is going WAY wrong in America today…

Dr John You have mongered(new word) fear and hate for the 2 years i’ve visited F.A.
Mata has shown the class and reason of a smart Conservative.


Info on the Dangers of the Scanners in use by TSA today…. for your own use, take from it what you will…..


@ Mata..I’ve been in agreement with you and your posts almost all the time…. so I sincerely am asking, what exactly has you so riled up on this one?? Maybe I indeed have missed something… so, what has your fire lit??

@Hankster58, in the past two years, I’ve flown a lot. I’ve been thru the normal detectors, the scanners, been wanded, been pat down, and had my luggage opened. I’ve also observed those that have set off the detectors and/or scanners, and pulled out for either wanding or pat downs.

I’ve seen nothing different. The pat down I received was the same pat down I observed… and I assure you, I was watching. Especially in the past six times I’ve been thru airport security the past 3-4 weeks.

While there can obviously be exceptions to the rule, for the most part travelers are not experiencing much difference than they have in the past, save for the new machines and given the option for pat downs instead of the new scanners. And considering the amount of people that are shoveled thru airport security even within an hour at all US airports, those that have had incidents (and you’ll note many of them precede this bruhaha)… or those that are subjected to pat downs by choice or because they set off detectors… are a miniscule percentage of travelers. Or, the scanner revealed something that required a closer look or feel. Even recently, in Tampa as a matter of fact, I set off a detector because I forgot to remove a barrette from my hair. The TSA screener looked me over, noted the barrette, suggested I remove it and send it thru the x-ray, and had me walk back thru. They don’t even *usually* pull you out for a pat down until you set it off multiple times. Altho, on a very rare occasion, I was pulled out of line at random for a closer look.

This has nothing to do with “innocent until proven guilty”, because there is a difference between security screening, which has been around since the 70s, and criminal assumption leading to searches. You are either screened or patted down when entering stadiums or large venue events (and occasionally have backpacks opened, if you’re allowed to carry one in), and that’s nothing new either. And apparently, none of you ever go to federal buildings, or you’d know that screening and detectors there have been around for quite some time as well.

As I said, there is a “feeling” of principles being violated. And I fully understand that. However, if you read my post INRE the legalities, you’ll find that national security is also one of our principles. Just as everyone got on their indignant horses (rightfully so) when the Christmas bomber made it on the plane, and the citizens caught the Times Sq bomber – instead of the government – we have to make objections that actually fit within the scope of our rules of law to be taken seriously. Idiocy like what has been exhibited here lately does not help one iota. The national security threat is real, these scanners are an inadequate kneejerk response, but the thrust of the opposition pretty much makes most look like “birthers” and “truthers” when they battle with hyped emotions instead of our Constitutional principles.

@DrJohn: My, getting testy, are we?

It is a common tactic of yours to suggest that when someone puts up a link that they are “making this shit up.”

I made nothing up. I linked to stories.

I assure you, drj.. you’ve never seen me testy. And if, or when, you do, you’d better stand back. I have a pretty high threshhold for idiocy and hype, but when that threshhold is crossed, I pull no punches.

So my “common tactic” is suggesting people are “making this shit up” with links? Perhaps you should point out those examples instead of hemming and hawing because I caught you with… get this… your pants down. 😆

Yes, you provided a link to another ill informed, under researched hyperbolic blogger like yourself, and pronounced that as your redemption. That same blogger wouldn’t even back down when TSA pointed out the facts in the SLC kid with the shirt the father took off. An incident that even the family did not make a scene over.

Then you link to a cell phone video that proves nothing of the sort of “confiscation” and “threats”, but then use that hyped up blogger’s words as yours…. somehow feeling redeemed for spreading the horse manure. I would have thought you’d do some homework yourself, guy. Instead, you lecture me for doing what you did not.

As I said, we’d all do better to stick with what the TSA is actually doing, and not what you imagine they are doing, in order to remedy a situation that all of us find offensive. But instead, you help turning FA into a blog site that resembles the irrational conspiracists that make up birthers and truthers…. passing on hype and misleading headlines as “news”. Look, for example, at your headline about a 12 year old girl, standing “naked in a scanner”. When you read the actual event, she wasn’t traumatized, seemed confused as to the events, and probably could have benefited from the accompanying adults letting her know that all she had to do was take 5 seconds or less to stand in the scanner, and then move on. But no… you all had to blow it up out of proportion. And frankly, I find such hype that may leave young teens scared tremendously irresponsible.

There’s a responsibility that goes along with writing in the new age medium, IMHO. And I think passing on facts, instead of scandalous misleading headlines, is part of that responsibility. In the case of Obama, in general, as well as TSA, there is ample reality of inadequacies and erroneous policy directions to debate that doesn’t need the fanning of the flames with half truths that you apparently seem to relish.

@Hankster58, LOL! I’m not riled up. I can sit back for awhile, and let everyone vent their frustration. But since Nov 15th, there’s been eight posts alone on the TSA issue, with the argument just spiraling into the bizarre and absurd. Just as Wordsmith, Aye and myself stepped in during the Cordoba House/Ground Zero mosque days to offer up a differing perspective (mostly from our founding principles and legal aspects, since all of us… like this… find it personally offensive), I had to do the same here.

So far this debate has run the spectrum from TSA being a black militant force to it being staffed by a bunch of perverts, frothing at the bit to “grope” everyone. I have to wonder, since 37% of them are military veteran hires (and the TSA plainly states veterans are given the leg up for hiring), how they feel about being characterized that way?

Are the rules and guidelines most likely ineffective? Yes. Considering that scanners don’t go below skin levels, they are meant to show only what someone is hiding. Is that a viable concern for airport security? Of course.

Is there an argument to be made for their safety? Of course? Improperly calibrated machines are a viable debating point.

But has that been the argument? Nope…. it’s all posturing by those that don’t quite get the difference between government responsibility for national security, and where our personal freedoms lie. That was hyped up by links and scandalous headlines that, when you read the actual events, didn’t match the headlines. Most people, of course, are just headline/soundbyte educated. So if you want to influence the masses, just run an Enquirer style headline, and watch it go viral.

Just trying to put a realistic perspective on it so FA doesn’t appear to be another yellow journalism, Alex Jones/birther/truther whacked out website. We have diversity of voices here. And frankly, this conversation/debate was in serious need of some diversity.